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Public works policy : outlined by the Premier in his speech on the second reading of the Public Works… Turner, John Herbert 1898

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Outlined  by The  Premier in   His Speech on
The Second Reading
Of  the   Public   Works   Loan   Act   by   Which
$5,000,000 Will  be Spent
In  Assisting  Railway   Development—The
Mackenzie & Mann Contract.
(The Colonist, May 7, 1898.)
The cry of the people of British Columbia has been for a bold and aggressive
policy, which would lead to the development of the great resources of the province, attract immigration and capital and
generally contribute to its prosperity.
This demand has been wholly reasonable.
It has found expression in the opposition press. It has been urged by the opposition members of the legislature.
The members of the house who usually
vote with the government have united
in the demand. The press which supports the government has taken a strong
attitude in favor of it. The Colonist
can fairly claim to have occupied an
advanced position in regard to such a
policy. To meet this demand much foresight, faith and courage have been required—foresight to discover not only
what ought to be done, but what could
be done; faith in the extent and value
of the resources of the province; courage
to meet the criticism that will and
ought to be directed to every proposition
involving large public expenditures. We
feel that we can say of the Loan bill,
the second reading of which Hon.  Mr.
Turner moved yesterday, that it displays
in a high degree these three admirable
and necessary qualities. If it becomes
the law of the province and its several
provisions are acted upon, Mr. Turner
and his colleagues will take a place
in the history of British Columbia and
Canada, scarcely second to any public
men the Dominion has produced, as promoters of material prosperity. The privilege which Mr. Turner had yesterday,
of standing in his place in the house and
announcing that the government of
vhich he is the leader has- made arrangements which will secure the immediate beginning of two great lines of
railway from the Pacific Coast of the
province to the inteiior, one through the
southern and the other through the
northern part of the province, and both
to open to the world great gold fields,
was one that has never fallen to the
lot of any provincial premier to equal
and has been surpassed in the history of
Canada only by the announcement of
the perfecting of arrangements for the
construOuon of the Canadian Pacific.
These two railways involve the construction of over eight hundred miles of road,
through and to connect with what undoubtedly are the richest gold-bearing re gions in the world, but whose resources
are not limited by the wealth which may
be dug out of the bowels of the earth.
The Premier stated his case so modestly
that possibly the house hardly grasped
its full significance; but it was an epoch-
making declaration, presuming of course
that the house places the government
in a position to carry out the arrangements which have been provisionally
From the outset the Colonist has asked the members of the legislature to approach this great question from a nonpartisan standpoint. The credit for originating this bold and comprehensive
policy must rest with the government;
but the credit for its adoption can be
shared in by members on both sides of
the house. The question rises so far
above all considerations of party politics,
that one does not see them at all when
regarding it, any more than when we
look upon some grand mountain peak,
rising clear and white into the blue
heavens, we notice the mists which linger in the shadows of the foothills. It is
not too much to say that the eyes of
Canada are upon British Columbia at
this crisis. Let our legislature acquit
itself so that it will centre upon our
province the eyes of the civilized world.
We do not pretend to know how all the
members will vote upon this loan
bill; but we do know that the man who
by his vote shall contribute to the defeat of the measure assumes a responsibility before the country, which nothing he may hereafter do as a public man
will efface. A great policy has been announced. There is no alternative policy to be considered. It is this or nothing. The Dominion government has declared that it will do nothing for the
railway to the North this year. The
railway in the South cannot be carried
out unless this bill becomes law. If this
bill does not go through a year with all
its priceless opportunities will be lost.
What man is there who dares take the
responsibility of this? Is there an individual in the house who will let his
partizan feelings so blind his eyes to the
great advantage of immediate action
tha* he will not see where his duty lies
iu this great emergency?
The two new features in the loan bill
are the extension of the railway provided
for last year from the Coast to the Columbia river, and the line from the Coast
to Teslin Lake. As nearly every one
knows new bill amends, provided for a
line from English Bluff on the Coast to
^Boundary Creek. This was recognized as
incomplete, but it was all that the government felt able to ask the house to
grant at that time. It was hoped that
the outstanding land subsidy would be
sufficient, with what aid the Dominion
government would give to secure the
construction of the whole line. This
auticipation has not betfn realized, but
the government is now in a position to
announce that if a subsidy of $4,000 a
mile is given for the whole line from the
Coast to the Columbia the construction
of the road will be at onee begun. We
do not believe there is any difference of
opinion in the province as to the desirability of giving effect to this plan. The
railway will be one of very great importance. It will open a splendid section
of country. It will add enormously to
the prosperity of those portions of the
southern part of the province where settlers and miners are already established.
It will tie the Coast more closely than
e^er to the interior, open new markets
for our merchants and farmers, give an
impetus to the settlement of a very valuable region and generally supply a new
artery for industrial life along four hundred miles of the fairest portion of Canada. Surely for such a line of policy no
argument is needed.
The plan for the construction of a
railway from the Coast to Lake Teslin
is one that will stand the closest investigation. If we argue for it more at length
than for the other enterprise, it is not
because its merits are less, but because
they are less understood. One great
beauty of the plan for the northern road
is that it illustrates the truth of what
Mr. Turner said in his speech yesterday
—that as we grow older we learn better
how to deal with enterprises of this nature. At first the province thought the
best way to secure railways was to
give large land giants. Then it
decided to pledge its credit in the way
of guaranteeing bonds. The next step
was that adopted last year, namely of
giving a definite amount out and out,
the connection of the province with the
undertaking to cease when the subsidy
bad been paid. This is the plan on
which the Coast-Columbia and the Bute-
Quesnelle road were subsidized. This
year's plan is that adopted in connection
with the northern railway, and is the
greatest advance in railway subsidizing
that has been made in Canada. The
government gives a subsidy, which is not
payable until the road is in a position to
earn money, and immediately the road
begins to earn anything it begins to pay
back into the treasury the money which
it received It pays it back first in taxes
and next in a fixed per centage of its 3
gross earnings. If the road earns $100
the province will get $4, no matter how
much it costs to operate the line. It is
thus very clear, that, as the charge for
interest and sinking fund on the subsidy,
is 4 per cent, when the earnings of the
read reach $4,000 a mile, that is the
gross earnings, remember, without taking into account the operating expenses
or any charges which the company may
be at for interest, the subsidy will cease
to be a charge upon the province. If
the gross earnings exceed $4,000 a mile
the provincial interest in the railway will
be a source of revenue to the province.
Four thousand dollars a mile is by no
means a large amount to put down for
the earnings of a railway through such
a country and leading to a region of
such inestimable wealth as the Yukon,
so we are not surprised that the intending contractors have stipulated that they
shall be at liberty at any time to pay off
the subsidy so as to relieve the road from
this 4 per cent, charge. This arrangement is a distinct advance upon all previous plans made in Canada for subsidizing railways and we are sure will
commend itself to public opinion not only
within but outside of the province. The
other details of the agreement are important, such as the immediate construction of the wagon road, the immediate
beginning of work on both sections, the
government control of freight rates and
the selection of the ocean terminus by
the government. Taken all in all, we
think the most captious critics must od-
mit that the interests of the province
have been closely safeguared in the contract which the government proposes to
make with Messrs. Mackenzie, Mann &
The construction of this railway to the
North will be in the hands of men who
are strong financially and whose experience in railway work has been extensive. Messrs. Mackenzie, Mann & Co.
are among the ablest railway constructors in America. They have a reputation for energy and business integrity
which renders their undertaking to do a
given piece of work a guarantee that it
will be done in the time and manner
specified; but in this instance they offer a direct pledge of good faith in the
shape of a deposit of $75,000 for each
section of the railway, or $150,000 in
all. It is, of course, their interest to.
push the contract to completion at the
earliest possible day. The sooner the
work is done, the sooner it will earn
money, and so likewise the sooner it
will begin to repay the subsidy, which
is in point of fact more in the nature
of an advance than a gift, as is usually
the case with government contributions
to railway undertakings.
Mr. Turner in his speech estimate!
that the returns from the 4 per cent,
would amount to $50,000 a year. What
the revenue would be from the taxes on
the road is easily calculated. The value
per mile for assessment purposes is
fixed at $2,000 per mile, instead of $3,000
as is the case with broad gauge roads,
The mileage is 400 miles, which gives
$800,000 of taxable property. This at
three-fifths of one per cent., the rate
applying to the railway, will yield $4,800
a year. This brings the estimated receipts from the railway up to within
$10,000 of what will be needed to meet.
the interest and sinking fund. To this
must be added the personal tax of $3
per capita, which each employee of the
road must pay, which, with the other
taxes derivable from the employees of
the road, will reduce the estimated cost
of this subsidy to the province to about
$8,000 a year from the outset and this
will be liable to reduction yearly thereafter, until, as has been said above, the
charge will be extinguished and the
railway be a source of clear gain to the
province, unless the company owning
it shall repay the subsidy. Is there any
reason to doubt such a result? We do
not believe there is. No one can undertake to say what the resources of the
Yukon and Northern British Columbia
are, but there is sufficient evidence to
warrant legislation in aid of railway construction in the manner contemplated. We know that more than a
quarter of a million square miles of territory in Canada and a large area in
inferior Alaska will be tributary to this
railway, no matter how many other
lines may in the future be built to tap
these great interior gold fields. This
railway, coming to the Coast in a more
southerly latitude than any other possible route, following a course to the
north behind the Coast range, where the
snow fall is comparatively light, intersecting a region of great promise, affording access to a vast territory to the
East and Northeast and reaching the
he-ad waters of the finest of the Yukon
tributaries, will be exceptionally well
situated to compete for traffic when
competition becomes possible. That the
northern gold fields will be permanent
is no longer a matter of doubt. For
these reasons we claim that the proposed
subsidy may properly be regarded as an
advance to the company constructing the
line of an amount not much more than
sufficient to pay the freight charges on
provisions and material used in construction, from Victoria or Vancouver to the scene of operations. This bargain is an
exceptionally favorable one, especially
when we remember that in addition a
public wagon road VoO miles long is to
b^ built by the company. As a business
arrangement the plan agreed upon will
stand the closest scrutiny.
The great majority of the people of
British Columbia, without regard to locality or political sympathy, will endorse
the whole policy which finds expression
in the Loan bill. Those residents of
Kootenay, who are said to be hostile to
that portion of the measure which provides for the railway to the Yukon, will
surely see that the plan submitted to the
house is one to which they cannot refuse their support. Surely the people of
that favored portion of British Columbia
will not be so utterly sectional as to
expect their representatives to withhold
their santion from this measure as an
entirety. Is there a shadow of doubt
that, if such a plan, as that for the Yukon railway, were proposed for a line in
any part of Kootenay, every voter in
that part of the country would hold up
both hands for it? Would they not say
at once that all the province is asked to
do in effect is to borrow the money and
let the railway pay the interest and
sinking fund? Will the people of the
Lower Fraser justify their representatives in blocking projects that will open
to the farmers of British Columbia the
best markets in America? We do not believe they will, any more than the people
of the Coast cities would support thei-
representatives in such a course. The
measure is in the hands of the house.
We look for its passage by a good majority, but would be more than gratified to
chronicle that it had met with unanimous support. Some days ago the Colonist appealed to Mr. Semlin, as leader
of the oppostion, to throw partizanship
to the winds for the occasion and join
hands with the government in carrying
through this great measure. He will re
sume the debate on Monday, and he has
the political opportunity of his life. He
can rise at one step to as high a pedestal
as ever was occupied by the leader of a
provincial opposition in Canada, by closing his speech with seconding the Premier's motion for the second reading of
the bill. He would lose nothing, but on
the contrary would gain immensely by
such a course. It would be a fitting culmination to his political record. Next
Monday will be the beginning of the last
week of the last session of the present
parliament of British Columbia. Let it
be the beginning of a new era in the
history of our imperial province. Let the
representatives  of the people show the
world that, differ as they may on political issues, they are as one on the great
question of provincial development, one
in their faith in the resources of British
Columbia, one in their determination
that the golden opportunity at hand shall
not slip by unimproved. Let both sides
of the house proclaim as with one voice:
Advance, British Columbia!
Proceeding to move the second reading of the dill Hon. Mr. Turner said:
Mr. Speaker, as has already been stated
frequently this is a most important bill
—one of the most important that has
been brought into the house this session,
although there have been so many Important bills before us this session looking to the development of British Columbia that I find it difficult to say
which is the most important of the number Still it cannot be doubted that
this bill takes its place as the most important measure to be placed before the
house for consideration Owing to the
fact that the present rules of the house
do not make it necessary to reproduce
the sections which are to be amended
the bill is perhaps on the face of it a
little misleading to the general public
without- an explanation. It might seem
at first sight as if it is proposed by this
bill to borrow $5,000,000; but as a fact
it is only to give power to borrow
$2,500,000 more than has already been
authorized by the bill which was passed
by the legislature last session and which
the present bill proposes to amend. In
the bill which passed the house last year
several very important lines which again
appear in this present bill are provided
for. Those roads are the one from Pen-
tiction to Boundary creek, the road from
the coast to Penticton, and the road
from Bute inlet to Quesnelle, or 560
miles in all. Now it is proposed to raise
$2,500,000 more for the purpose of aiding in the construction of 480 miles more
of railways. The most important part
of this is that intended to assist in building a railway from some point on the
coast of the province to Teslin lake.
That section of the province has been
so very prominently before the public
for the past year that it is almost unnecessary for me to advert to it, but
from the opinions of those best qualified
to know and from the information set
out in the public press the general feeling among the people of the province is
that for the development of British Columbia it is absolutely necessary to have
that extreme northern portion of the
province opened up by means of railways.
It was by  a bold,  progressive policy
of aiding railways that has had the de- sirable effect of developing the Kootenay
and Okanagan country in the southern
part of the province and has brought
about such magnificent results. Now it
is proposed to go hundreds of miles
North to develop those sections which
had hitherto in a large measure lain dormant. I feel sure that such a bold, pro-
giessive policy is acceptable to the province. It is perhaps a large sum of monoy
but the government is encouraged in
bringing in the bill from the fact that.
we know of the success attending the
railway works already assisted by the
province. It is really owing to the policy
of this government in subsidizing such
roads as the Columbia & Western, the
Shuswap & Okanagan, the Kaslo &
Sloean and other lines that these lines
were built and the country opened up to
the extent that it is to-day. I do not believe that Kootenay would to-day be returning one-quarter or even one-tenth of
revenue she is now doing if it had not
been for undertaking such enterprises,
for beyond a shadow of doubt those rail-
. ways would not have been built so
speedily had it not been for government
assistance. There have been many opinions as to the most advantageous method for subsidizing railways. Several
methods have been tried and these have
been modified from time to time as experience and better knowledge of conditions had indicated as desirable. At
first little was known of the conditions
and results could not be reasonably anticipated, but as time went on the province
gradually changed its policy until last
year, when the house had adopted the
plan of granting a subsidy of so much
per mile. There was an uncertainty
about the system of guaranteeing bonds
as to the exact amounts which the province would have to pay and consequently
the government believed that the present
plan of a cash subsidy with participating benefits is the best method.
Of course, there are people who advocate state ownership of railways and a
great deal may be said in favor of that
policy as applied to certain countries. In
New Zealand I believe that this been
to a certain extent successful,* though
the blue books do not give all the details necessary to show that the success
has been as great as claimed. Still
there can be no comparison between
New Zealand and British Columbia for
the conditions in the two countries are
so different. In New Zealand the population is distributed evenly over the
whole country, and being a colony by itself and not a province the government
has control of the tariff revenues, an
advantage which British Columbia does
not possess. Having control of its tariff
and all other sources of revenue New
Zealand is in a position to which we can
never attain. It can not only vary its
tariff to meet its reejuirements but it
can control its railways absolutely. I will
not discuss whether the Dominion would
be wise or not to take over the railway
system of Canada, but I do say that
British Columbia as a province is not in
a position to undertake such a grave responsibility on its own behalf. In New
Zealand, though it appears that many
lines do not pay, yet on the average and
by the big profits made on the lines running through the more thickly settled
portions of the colony the average return
is something like 3 l-3per cent, on the
expenditure. It is important to know
what rates are charged by the railways,
but the blue books do not show that.
However, reading the London Times I
observe that it is stated that although
New Zealand is a beautiful country and
comparatively prosperous its railways
afford the worst travelling accommodation in the world.
Not only is this accommodation indifferent, but the trains are slow, starting
when they like and very uncertain as to
the time when they will arrive at their
destination. I do not know if this is a
faithful picture, but Max O'Rell testifies
to it. From this it is apparent that
the fact of government ownership of
railways paying in New Zealand does
not prove that it will pay here. There
the colony is self-contained, so it does not
much matter how the trains run as
everyone is on an equal footing. Here
we are brought into competition with a
gigantic railway system that would
swamp roads run under New Zealand
We think that the best system at present to encourage railways is to give
a definite sum as a subsidy. This railway from the coast to Teslin lake will
open up the Omineca and Cassiar country, which from the information which
we have, promise to be as wealthy as
any portion of the province and may
possibly prove to be the wealthiest. With
the development which will be brought
about by a railway we will soon see a
very large number of settlers in those
districts—for even now people are going
in there fast and when a railway is constructed there will be vastly increased
facilities for an in-flow of population.
We want to see the northern part of
the province increase in population in
the same degree as in the southern portion and I feel sure that with railway
communication inaugurated and that established we will have 50,000 or 60,000 6
people there in a very short time. It
has been said that this railway will benefit the Dominion more than it will the
province, and that the revenue from the
districts will go largely to the Dominion. That is no reasonable argument
why it should not be constructed. Ev-m
if two-thirds of the revenue went to
the Dominion and one-third to the province it would be foolish for the province
to do nothing. The proper argument is
that the road will benefit British Columbia, that it will develop the resources
of Omineca and Cassiar, that it will be
of benefit to the towns and cities of the
Coast, and that it will contribute materially to the prosperity of the whole of
the province. It will open up a mining
section of wonderful possibilities. It
will open up the Skeena valley and the
lands beyond, where agriculture and
stock raising can be carried on. It will
benefit the farmers on the Fraser valley
and the Coast districts, for it will open
up to them larger markets and improved
prices for their produce. We all know
what beneficial influences the lines in
the Kootenay country have had and how
the Okanagan district has grown and
developed from the enlargement of the
mining interests through the advent of
railways. This line is the one which will
largely carry the people going into the
Yukon and besides that pass through a
country that will attract people to stop
and settle or prospect. Even if all the
people at first do pass through to the
Yukon they will have brought in large
sums of money which will be distributed
throughout the province and then when
the reaction sets in and the people begin
to return, the important works going on
ir, the northern portion of the province
will give employment to many and will
induce many more to settle there adding
their quota to the wealth and population
of British Columbia, and aiding as well
in discovering new mines and developing fresh resources.
The other new railroad provided for in
the bill is that from Robson to Boundary
creek, approximately a distance of SO
miles. There is already a line which has
a charter and a land grant for that portion of the road, but it is proposed to
modify this arrangement so that the land
grant will be changed into a money subsidy. Of course, any line that takes up
the money subsidy loses the land subsidy.
This line, giving as it does connection
with Penticton, will be of very great
importance to the province by giving a
connection with the Shuswap & Okanagan and making that part of a through
system of railway. The guarantee of
this road is at present a heavy tax on
the province and if it only pays that
the new road will pay very well. It will
open up new outlets for the Okanagan
and be very advantageous to the country.
I have not yet referred to the arrangements proposed for carrying out these .
great works. The fact is that the line
between Robson and Penticton will be
going on very shortly and will be under way before August. The other portion from Penticton to Boundary in another month. The building of the line to
the North is the one that presents the
greatest difficulty. We had many interviews with railway men on the subject
and finally were enabled to come to an
understanding on all points. The contractors are ready to agree to build a
wagon road immediately over the section
from the Stikine to Teslin lake and to
have it finished within three months,
that any work done by the province and
any expenditure by the government on
the road will be assumed by the contractors; that the work on both sections of
the railway will begin before June 1;
that the northern section will be finished
by August, 1899, and that the southern
section shall be completed two and a
half years after the selection of an ocean
port. The contractors will be paid $4,000
a mile subsidy only upon the completion
of each section and when the railway is
running and not before. This railway
will return to the government 4 per cent,
on the gross earnings of the line.
Mr. Williams—Gross?
Hon. Mr. Turner—Yes, gross, not
net, and besides, as soon as it is completed the railway is taxable at the rate
of $2,000 a mile. This subsidy of $4,000
a mile is not to exceed $1,600,000 and
will cost the province $64,000 a year.
The 4 per cent, on the gross receipts of
the railway added to the tax on the
road will give the province $50,000 a
year, so the difference the province will
have to pay will be very small. In addition to these considerations there must
be taken into consideration the taxation
arising out of the development and settlement of the district which now yields
very little revenue. Within three years
the revenue will be $20,000 or $30,000
from this source alone. It is to be remembered, too, that there is a term by
which the contractors are to put up $75,-
000 security to the satisfaction of the
Lieutenant-Governor-in-council for the
construction of the line. The fact that
the northern section is to be finished by
August, 1899, means that this year a.
part of the road—fifty miles—will be
ready this autumn and so reduce the distance to be travelled by trail materially. The railway will open up the very important district of the Skeena river as
well and also give communication with
the great district of Omineca, one of the
richest mineral districts on the continent. Consequently, this great work
will recoup the province in a very few
years for the outlay. British Columbia
has been the boldest of any province of
the Dominion in undertaking development works and in its railway policy and
this means that by its progressiveness
and enterprise over 1,000 miles of railway in British Columbia are due. I will
now read the terms which Mackenzie &
Mann are prepared to accept.
Victoria, B. C, April 30, 1398.
The Hon. J. H. Turner, Premier:
Dear Sir:—Referring to my communication to you of the 18th inst., re Teslin
railway. My understanding of the matter
is that on April 20th the terms therein set
out were discussed and amended to further
meet the government's demands, and that
the proposition verbally accepted by the
government now stands as follows:
The railway to be a through narrow
gauge line from Teslin Lake to an ocean
port in British Columbia.
The port to be selected jointly by the
Provincial and Dominion governments.
The railway to be divided into two sections.
The northern section from the Stikine
River to Teslin Lake.
The southern section from the Stikine to
the ocean port.
Work to be commenced simultaneously on
both sections at the Stikine before June
1st next.
Northern section to be finished by August
31st, 1898.
Southern section to be finished within two
and a half years after selection of ocean
Government to grant cash subsidy of $4,-
000 per mile for both sections.
Payable upon completion of each section.
The railway to be assessed at $2,000 per
mile when completed.
The government to receive 4 per cent, of
the gross receipts of the railway.
The railway company to have the option of repaying at any time the total subsidy.
We to immediately construct, for the purposes of the railway ( a wagon road over the
northern section along the located line of
The wagon road to be free to the public
for transportation purposes during the construction of the railway.
We to take over and assume all expenditure in respect of any such wagon road
under construction by the government at
date of contract with us.
Security for the due performance of the
whole work to be given to the satisfaction
of the Lieatenant-Governor in Council in
the sum of $75,000 for each section forthwith upon the execution of the contract.
With reference to the modifications of the
above terms suggested verbally by the government to-day, I may say that I am willing to accede to the following:
1st. The subsidy to be $4,000 per mile
from Teslin Lake to an ocena port in
British Columbia, to be nominated by the
Lieutenant-Governor In Council and the
Governor-General in Council, such subsidy
not to exceed the aggregate sum of Sl,-
2nd. The Lieutenant-Governor in Council
to have supervision of the construction of
the wagon road, also of the railway rates,
which two matters shall be mutually adjusted and agreed upon before the execution of the contract.
I beg to say that my firm are prepared
forthwith, upon the granting to them of
the said subsidy, to execute a contract upon
the above terms, so modified, with provision therein for the full and satisfactory
equipment and operation of the railway.
I beg to remain,
Yours faithfully,
For Mackenzie, Mann & Co.
Mr. Cotton asked why the ocean port
had to be designated by the Dominion
as well as the Province.
Hon. Mr. Turner—It is important
that the terminus of the railway on salt
water be declared a port and it is only
the Dominion who have the right to say
where a port of entry shall be. Consequently it would have to be a place accessible to steamers. Some people have
imagined that a northern port would injure the southern ports of British Columbia. This was evidently said without
much thought, for I think the southern
part of British Columbia is quite capable
of taking care of itself. If we only had
one or two ports on the Coast we would
never amount to much. These other
reads mentioned in the bill were in the
bill last year. The Vancouver, Victoria
and Eastern is already under subsidy
and there is reason to believe that the
Chilliwack section will be built this
year. I have not had time to prepare
a speech on this important bill as my
time has been so fully occupied; but
so large and important a subject is
worthy of greater effort and greater
than I could bring to bear on it. It
does not, I am proud to say, require
great eloquence. It speaks for itself.
The advantages of the bill and the arrangements to which it gives effect are
so evident that they may be readily understood, and plainly stated as sufficiently convincing without the aid of oratory. However, if gentlemen so desire
I am quite willing that the debate be
adjourned till Monday.
Mr. Semlin moved the adjournment of
the debate, which was agreed to. 


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