@prefix edm: . @prefix dcterms: . @prefix dc: . @prefix skos: . edm:dataProvider "CONTENTdm"@en ; dcterms:isReferencedBy "http://resolve.library.ubc.ca/cgi-bin/catsearch?bid=1210082"@en ; dcterms:isPartOf "University Publications"@en ; dcterms:issued "2015-07-17"@en, "1969-11-20"@en ; edm:aggregatedCHO "https://open.library.ubc.ca/collections/ubcreports/items/1.0118324/source.json"@en ; dc:format "application/pdf"@en ; skos:note """ UBC REPORTS CAMPUS EDITION STUDENTS CHALLENGE SENATE UBC's Senate, accustomed to dealing with academic matters, was confronted Nov. 12 with a series of issues with political overtones. I The issues, raised at a regular Senate meeting by student members, are related to the Viet Nam war, the situation of native Indians in B.C.'s educational system and the sociological background of UBC's student body. Senate, after lengthy and occasionally heated discussion, — refused to act on a motion calling for endorsation of campus activities related to the Viet Nam moratorium of Nov. 14 and which urged "all members of the University community to participate in the moratorium as best they can"; —approved a motion calling for a wide-ranging inquiry on education of Indians in B.C. and their situation at UBC, and —tabled a motion calling for a study of the |x>ciological background of UBC students pending a report on the costs of such a study and who should carry it out. (A summary of the discussion on the Viet Nam moratorium resolution follows. A description of the debates on the Indian education and sociological study questions appears in the box at lower right on this page). By DORIS HOPPER Assistant Information Officer, UBC Miss D.J. O'Donnell, attending her first meeting as one of 11 newly-elected student senators, put a motion before UBC's Senate on Nov. 12 which polarized the meeting and eventually sparked a half-hour non-debate. Rising after a relatively uneventful two hours of business-as-usual Senate debate, Miss O'Donnell moved: "THAT the Senate endorse the Viet Nam moratorium scheduled for Friday, November 14, and urge all members of the University community to participate in the moratorium as best they can." Senate now has a total of 12 student representatives who succeeded in making their presence felt Nov. 12. Miss O'Donnell's motion climaxed an evening of active participation by the student Senators, supported by some faculty representatives, during which they consistently delineated a stance which evoked an indignant and vocal response from some faculty members. "Poppycock," roared one faculty Senator as Miss O'Donnell argued that many of the decisions made by Senate, such as the recent one on admissions, entailed just as far ranging "political" implications as did her own motion. Another faculty senator said the Nov. 12 meeting had been much more political in its orientation than DR. JOHN TUZO WILSON, right, the only Canadian to acquire a piece of moon rock from the Apollo 11 manned moon mission, will give the Dal Grauer Memorial Lectures at UBC on Tuesday and Wednesday, Nov. 25 and 26. The internationally-known geo- physicist is shown above with colleague Dr. David Strangeway, who holds the moon rock sample. A special laboratory to examine the sample has been built at Erindale College, in Toronto, where Dr. Wilson is principal. For details, turn to Page Four. Please turn to page four See Senate Indian Study Approved UBC's Senate has approved a study of Indian education in the province but has postponed for a month a decision on a sociological study of the student body. Graduate student Senator Stan Persky called for the sociological study at the Nov. 12 meeting of Senate. And in another motion Mr. Persky asked that the President, in consultation with the nominating committee, set up a committee to study the situation of Indians at UBC. ROUGH TREATMENT Senate quickly approved the Indian inquiry. Prof. Cyril Belshaw pointed out that many similar committees have been struck in the past. He said he hoped the inquiry wouldn't be limited to the situation of Indians at UBC but that it would cover the general question of Indian education in B.C. Mr. Persky agreed. The motion for a sociological study of the student body received rougher treatment. Mr. Persky asked that the survey be done through the Office of Academic Planning and that the director of the office. Dr. Robert Clark, make whatever arrangements he likes. FUNDS SOUGHT Debate revolved around two points: how much would the study cost and what would be its purpose. Dr. Clark said he welcomed the idea of a study and had been trying for two years to get enough money to hire someone to do it. Pressed by Senate members for an estimate, Dr. Clark said he couldn't say how much the study would cost. Mr. Stuart Lefeaux, a Convocation Senator, asked what the purpose of the study would be and Dr. V.J. Okulitch, dean of the Faculty of Science, said he saw no practical reason for the survey. The report of the Senate Long-Range Objectives Committee pointed to the need for a study of this kind, Mr. Persky said, though the committee made no specific recommendation that a survey be made. He cited page seven of the report: "Unfortunately we lack the data to give an accurate description of the sociological background of our students. Such a study should be undertaken as soon as possible." MOTION TABLED Prof. R.F. Gray of Education said this kind of information will be essential when faculties begin their discussion of the Report. Perhaps it can't be had soon enough, he said. Student Senator Peter Ladner said Senate should find out who the University serves and what part of. the community benefits from UBC. If the study reveals that it is predominently one section of society, then Senate should find out why, he said. Prof. D.F. Hardwick moved that the motion be tabled, saying that a month's delay to determine how much the study would cost and who would do it would do no harm. The tabling motion was passed. ■&*4 -,. \\*jF*. - .n UBC's Bookstore has one of the largest selections of paperback books anywhere in North America, according to Bookstore manager Mr. Jack Hunter, left. He is shown above with assistants Maude Race and Barry Scott. Photo by Extension Graphic Arts. Much of UBC's academic program revolves around books, and the main supplier of texts, paperbacks and supplies for students and faculty members is UBC's oft-criticized Bookstore. To find out what makes the Bookstore tick, UBC Reports recorded the following interview with manager Jack Hunter, a member of the staff for 30 years. UBC REPORTS: Mr. Hunter, the main crit^Bi that students have levelled at University Bookstore over the years has been the price of text books. But books aren't just arbitrarily priced. I wonder if you could give us a brief explanation of the factors involved in pricing. MR. JACK HUNTER: Well, all publishers set a list price on their books and from the list price we get a certain discount. UBC REPORTS: The list price then is a suggested retail price. MR. HUNTER: That's correct. Publishers can't tell you what price to sell a book at, but they suggest a certain price. And our retail prices are governed by this list price because from this list price we get a discount. UBC REPORTS: How much of a discount do^^ get? ^^ MR. HUNTER: On text and reference books we get 20 per cent. UBC REPORTS: I understand that a bookstore in downtown Vancouver that might order the same book would get a larger discount. MR. HUNTER: That's right. But their list price would be higher than ours. From the higher list price they get a higher discount. UBC REPORTS: I see. Why do the publishers of text and other books offer a different discount to the University than to a downtown book seller? MR. HUNTER: Well, the publishers have always felt that university bookstores have a captive market while the owner of a trade store in the city is gambling. If the off-campus bookseller buys 15 books he doesn't know whether he'll sell 15 books or one. The publishers feel that a university bookstore has a captive market, and that if you order, say, 800 books for a certain class, you're going to sell 600 or more of them. This is why they set a lower list price for the university bookstores than for the trade stores. UBC REPORTS: Does this seem to you to be a fair policy? Has the University expressed its unhappiness about this arrangement? TRY FOR DISCOUNTS MR. HUNTER: Yes, the Canadian Association of Bookstores, which is part of the Canadian Association of Book Sellers, are always trying to get larger ' discounts. But we've been unsuccessful. The publishers have so far been unpersuaded by our arguments. UBC REPORTS: Presumably, if you got the same kind of discount as downtown book sellers, you could sell the books at a lower price to students, who generally don't have a large amount of money » available for books. 2/UBC Reports/November 20, 1969 BEHIND THE SCENES AT UBC's BOOKSTORE MR. HUNTER: But on the other hand, if university bookstores pressed for larcier discounts and were successful, then the publisher would raise his prices. So it's half a dozen of one and six of the other. UBC REPORTS: What about the charges by students that they have gone downtown and •hased the same book from a commercial book r at a lower price? MR. HUNTER: That's hard to believe. He may have purchased the same title in a different edition. UBC REPORTS: In other words, he may be getting an edition that's six years old? DIFFERENT BOOKS Mr. HUNTER: Or a cheaper paperback edition, . such as a Bantam pocket book, for instance, at 95 cents. The one that we have is the one the professor wants—a hard cover book at, say, $2.50. The student may get the same title, but he's not getting the same book. _^JBC REPORTS: Can you tell us something now ^Put the operations of the Bookstore? Does the Bookstore, as has been claimed, make a profit? MR. HUNTER: We make a paper profit. We are charged for everything except rent and accounting services. We have to pay our staff salaries, insurance, telephone, etc. To get a true picture of Bookstore operations there should be a charge for rent and accounting services if it is to be equated with a commercial business. UBC REPORTS: The Bookstore is said to be a self-supporting ancillary service of the University. Exactly what is meant by a self-supporting operation? MR. HUNTER: It means that we must pay ouir way—pay all our expenses. From profits we must put aside money for future expansion. The provincial government will not allow the University to use capital grants for ancillary services, such as the Bookstore, food services, parking, etc. If we want to plan an expansion, such as we're doing now, we have to borrow money and repay it out of future profits. UBC REPORTS: The Bookstore, several years ago, instituted a rebate system of five per cent on all purchases made in the store by students. This means you've got five per cent less revenue now to show as profit. This would reduce the amount you can accumulate for further expansion. MR. HUNTER: That's right. UBC REPORTS: How many additions have been put onto the existing Bookstore? MR. HUNTER: We moved into this building in ' 1955 and since then we've put one addition on the front or east side and two on the south side. We have now taken up all the room that is available and we can't expand any further on this side. And all of those additions have been paid for out of accumulated profits from the sale of books and supplies. • UBC REPORTS: What plans do you have for the future? MR. HUNTER: We have a joint student-faculty committee that is discussing the construction of a new Bookstore. We hope to get into action this winter and that construction will start within a year. I'd like to see a store with a sales area large enough to allow us to carry on our business without having to set up the book supermarket in The Armoury at the beginning of term. UBC REPORTS: Still, the September supermarket in the Armoury has been a big help to students. MR. HUNTER: A big help, yes, but very costly because of moving all the stock, the additional staff which has to be hired and the dismantling and moving of stock back to the main store. UBC REPORTS: I see. That's all charged against your operation. You don't get any subsidy for that? MR. HUNTER: No, none whatever. UBC REPORTS: Has the committee given any consideration to a site for the new Bookstore? MR. HUNTER: I think it will be behind the library, on the east side of the East Mall and just to the south of Brock Hall. UBC REPORTS: You spoke earlier about the faculty-student Bookstore Committee. How many people sit on that committee? MR. HUNTER: Mr. John McLean, director of ancillary services, is chairman. In addition there are three professors, four students and myself.* UBC REPORTS: Does the committee function as a client's committee for the new Bookstore? MR. HUNTER: Within the main committee there is a client's committee. At other times the committee sits as a whole to hear complaints and discuss policies. We're concerned with the entire Bookstore operation. The students and faculty members have been very helpful and have made a number of suggestions which have improved our operation. STORAGE PROBLEMS UBC REPORTS: The Bookstore must have problems in terms of storage and stock-taking. MR. HUNTER: Let me give you just one example. Four years ago we needed only one complete works of Shakespeare. Last year we stocked 62 Shakespeare plays. The point is that we have to do the same amount of work for a 50-cent paperback as we do for a $10 hard-cover book. It costs us the same amount of money to unwrap the paperback, price it and sell it. UBC REPORTS: And you have no guarantee that all students will want all of these books. MR. HUNTER: We have no idea which they want. They may only buy some. They'll pair up and buy one between them. They'll say, 'you buy this one and "The policy-making body for the Bookstore is a president's committee called the Student-Faculty Advisory Committee on the Bookstore. Members of the committee, in addition to Mr. McLean and Mr. Hunter, are: Prof. Craig Miller, Department of English; Dr. J.E. Phillips, Zoology, and Dr. R.G. Campanella, Civil Engineering. Student members are: Mr. Hugh Creighton and Mr. Peter Fairchild, both fourth-year Arts students; Mr. Alan Dobrey, fourth-year Education and Mr. Ralph Steele, first-year Law. exchange it with me and I'll buy another one and exchange it with you.' Paperbacks have certainly changed the Bookstore operation. Our sales volume is not increasing at the rate of our inventory. Last year we had an eight-per-cent increase in sales and a 20-per-cent increase in inventory at the end of the year. This means that expenses are going up, inventory is going up, but revenue is not keeping pace. One thing I'd like to add about costs is that one-half to three-quarters of the books we purchase are eventually dropped from the curriculum. We must then return them to the publisher. Here we are forced to pay freight charges back to the publisher. So we're paying freight two ways, and in Canada freight costs are just about double, going east, what they are coming west. We pay about $6 a hundred pounds coming west and about $11 a hundred going east. This is an additional cost that we must pay. UBC REPORTS: Is theft a serious problem for you? THEFT A FACTOR MR. HUNTER: We have quite a bit of theft. Last year we found that theft amounted to two per cent of our total sales. UBC REPORTS: One other criticism I've heard over the years of the Bookstore is the lack of a wide spectrum of magazines and foreign newspapers, such as the New York Times, The Observer, The Times of London and so on. Why are these not available at the Bookstore? MR. HUNTER: The only reason they're not available is the lack of space. This is one of the things we hope to add in the new store, as well as a good trade book section, a much larger reference book section, hard-bounds, and more paperbacks. We have, incidentally, one of the largest collections of paperbacks in North America at the present time. But there are things that we can't do in the present premises. UBC REPORTS: As a person who has been at UBC for 30 years, you must have given some thought to the purpose of a university bookstore in the academic community for the faculty and students and, to a certain extent, for the general public too, because the Bookstore is open to any member of the public who wants to come in and make use of it. MR. HUNTER: The Bookstore should contribute to the general process of education, not only in the University for the faculty and students, but also in the community. There should be facilities for general browsing, the acquisition of books and general reading and the Bookstore should provide faculty members and students with books in their area of specialization. These objectives can only be achieved with a considerable area set aside for an extensive collection of general trade and reference books. I think that a good university bookstore has a lot to contribute to education, not only in the university but in the community as a whole. UBC Reports/November 20, 1969/3 Senate continued from page one any he had ever attended and objected to what he called "ugly political overtones." Speaking to her motion, Miss O'Donnell said that Senate was not being asked to support a resolution of condemnation, but a resolution of support for a campus moratorium to discuss Viet Nam, its history, problems and future. She called the moratorium a "real example of an extra-curricular intellectual endeavour concerned with the social reality of today's world," and said that the moratorium was in the spirit of the Long-Range Objectives Report, citing the passage on page 5 which says: "More may be accomplished for most students outside the scheduled instruction periods than within them, through independent study and discussion. . ." Dr. Malcolm F. McGregor, head of the department of classics, objected that "no matter what words the motion is wrapped in, Senate is still being asked to take a political stand." He said that "all the seminars arranged portray one side of the issue" and suggested that the motion was not the business of Senate and was out of order. President Walter Gage, Senate's chairman, said he thought the motion was in order and that he could see no reason why someone couldn't ask whether Senate wished to endorse the motion or not. With the motion ruled in order. Senate found itself in the traditional democratic dilemma, which was cogently summed up by Mr. C.B. Bourne, professor of law. "The trouble with this sort of motion is that you either vote for it or you vote against it," he said, "and Senate is going to appear to be against something if it votes it down." Mr. Bourne added that he thought it very unwise for Senate to entertain this sort of motion in the interests of the University. President Gage then asked what should be done, and Dean Philip White of Commerce and Business Administration supplied one possible answer. STRONG REACTION Invoking Robert's Rules of Order, Dean White moved that Senate proceed to the next item of business. Senate seized on Dean White's motion as a way out of its predicament. The motion carried. Student senator Stan Persky, as seconder of Miss O'Donnell's motion, reacted strongly to Senate's decision. He said that many of the issues that students are raising are explicitly moral issues and that for Senate to simply find a "convenient way to by-pass the motion," without discussing it and without voting on it, was "insulting" and "unfair." Senate then went in camera to discuss the report of the Tributes Committee and there the matter of the motion to endorse the Viet Nam moratorium seemed to rest. That was not, however, to be the end of it. At the end of the in camera debate Senate resumed its open session and Dr. Sydney F. Friedman, head of anatomy, rose to make an emotion-charged appeal, asking Senate to reconsider its treatment of the motion to endorse the Viet Nam moratorium. He asked Senate to "think a little harder about its position and about what the implications might be not only to ourselves on Senate but to the kind of posture we shall have to take with our colleagues and with our students if we prevail in an attitude of not wishing to discuss something which is in our world and is therefore quite real." COMMITTEE WORK HARMED He said he spoke as a member of the Senate Ad Hoc Committee on the Student Brief, "The Future of the University—Fair Weather or Foul?" (The Senate Committee on the Student Brief, chaired by Dean of Agriculture Michael Shaw, has met with students for more than a year to discuss issues raised in the document "The Future of Education at the University—Fair Weather or Foul?" Senate has received a report from the committee on procedures for dealing with problems of student discipline and increased student representation on Senate from four to 12 persons on the committee's recommendation). Dr. Friedman said that "by our refusal to discuss a matter of great interest to the student body, apart from its interest to faculty, we do ourselves an injustice and we do the work of your committee a great harm." He then moved "THAT Senate consider and discuss the implications and advisability of expressing its endorsation of campus activities with regard to the Viet Nam moratorium." Senator Davie Fulton, the former federal Minister of Justice, refuted any implication that Senate had acted improperly in superseding the moratorium motion. He said he believed that Senate had accepted the superseding motion because "they felt in their hearts that this was not a proper area for Senate to be discussing, not because we as individuals have no concern, but because it is not a matter for the Senate of the University of British Columbia. "That is why rules of order and matters of appeals of jurisdiction are not purely academic or devices but are means of enabling busy organizations to deal with the business that is properly before them to deal with," he said. Mr. Fulton added that in his view "a motion which, whether by intent or otherwise, seeks to involve Senate in expressing an opinion and implicit or expressed support for a political point of view is not one that is proper to be brought before Senate." VERGES ON POLITICAL He pointed out that Senate's terms of reference convey "at least by implication, if not expressly, that this body should not be expressing opinions on that kind of matter, because it certainly verges on the political." Mr. Fulton concluded that Senate had acted properly in superseding the motion and said that he would not support Dr. Friedman's motion. Grauer Lectures Set Dr. John Tuzo Wilson, the man with the only piece of moon rock in Canada, is this year's Dal Grauer Memorial Lecturer at the University of B.C. Dr. Wilson, principal of Erindale College of the University of Toronto, will speak on "Continental Drift: the Latest Revolution in Science" at 8:15 p.m. Tuesday, Nov. 25, in the lounge of UBC's Totem Park residence. He will lecture on "Why Does the Moon Not Look Like the Earth?" the following day at 12:30 p.m. in the Hebb Theatre. It was through the efforts of Dr. Wilson and one of his former students, Dr. David Strangeway who is also of Erindale College, that the college now has a piece of moon rock and samples of moon dust brought back by the United States manned moon mission. A special laboratory has been built at the college to examine the specimens. Dr. Wilson is an internationally-honored geophysicist. About two decades ago he showed how the North American continent grew outward from a nucleus in the Canadian Precambrian Shield. He is a strong advocate of the theory of continental drift and tries to explain what forces would cause continental masses to drift on denser material beneath. Dr. Wilson believes that the Pacific Ocean floor is moving eastward under B.C. and that the axis of this movement is to the west of Vancouver Island. Recent studies of the drift are in part the reason for a joint program between UBC's geology department and the federal department of energy, mines and resources to document the process. He has published three books, more than 100 scientific papers, is a member of nine scientific societies and associations around the globe and has visitied 160 universities in 100 countries. This year he was elected a member of the Royal Society of London and a foreign associate of the National Academy of Sciences of the U.S. His many awards include the Order of the British Empire and the U.S. Legion of Merit. When not travelling or working as an academic or administrator. Dr. Wilson relaxes by walking and through a less pedestrian pastime—sailing a Hong Kong junk on the Great Lakes. Dr. Wilson is the fourth Dal Grauer Memorial Lecturer. The lectures, named for the chancellor of UBC from 1957 to 1961, began in 1966. Previous lecturers were economist J.K. Galbraith, architect R. Buckminster Fuller and political scientist and author C. Northcote Parkinson. Dean White defended his superseding motion and confirmed Mr. Fulton's impression that he had made it because he felt "that politics is an area that Senate ought to leave to other constituencies and meetings on campus." While apologizing for any offence he may have given, he said that he had moved the motion to extricate Senate from the predicament which Professor Bourne had outlined. That was his sole motive in moving it, he added. Dean White noted that Senate's meeting had been much more political in its orientation than any that he had attended and he deplored this trend. He said that this trend would only reduce the usefulness of Senate and that if it continued Senate would "get into some very bitter disputes on issues that are not of direct consequence to the role that Senate has in the government of the university." "I do not believe that there is any useful purpose at this university in this Senate debating issues of this kind, because they are endless," he said. Dr. A.D. Scott, economics, who seconded Dr. Friedman's motion, said that "since the killing of the moratorium motion, Mr. Fulton and Dean White have debated the matter subsequently and have explained why they felt about it the way they did." He criticized Mr. Fulton and Dean White for not having done so at the time and for killing off debate. "To kill it off," he said, "is to kill off this Senate. If a majority just refuses to discuss things, then these things will be discussed elsewhere and decided elsewhere." Stan Persky said that when the motion was raised it had been the intention to create debate so that some very important theoretical issues might be raised for Senate. He said that several people had presented exactly the issues he wished to counter and he proceeded to_ read a long, closely reasoned statement, during which" he was interrupted by Mr. Stuart S. Lefeaux, a Convocation Senator, who said Mr. Persky's statement "tired" him. Mr. Persky said he believed page 8, paragraph 24, of the Long-Range Objectives report, which recommends that Senate not involve itself in partisan issues and that it attempt to stay neutral, reflects the mood of Senate. He said, however, that he felt it was proper to use reasoned argument to attempt to persuade Senate to his point of view, which was "to present the Viet Nam question. . .as a particularly special case, as a moral issue which very much dominates our times and which we, it may be argued, have some responsibility for attending to." INTELLIGENT NEUTRALITY He asked Senate to reconsider its position "on the relationship between the neutrality you say you want as an academic institution and the moral charges that are being made by the students. I believe there is a difference between intelligent neutrality that deeply takes into account moral questions and takes action with respect to them and a neutrality which is merely a convenient way of avoiding issues." President Gage then said that there had been ample discussion and asked Dr. Friedman to give the motion again. Dr. Friedman said that his motion asked that "Senate consider and discuss the implications and advisability of expressing the endorsation of campus activities for the Viet Nam moratorium." He said that Senate had, in fact, "considered and discussed the implications" and that he did not see how Senate could invalidate what it had done for the past half hour. It had no choice but to pass his motion, he said. Mr. Fulton said that the discussion actually had concerned whether external controversies should be brought forward to Senate for discussion or not. He said he did not think they should and that he would vote against the motion. President Gage put the motion. The motion was declared lost. UBC REPORTS Volume 15, No. 24-Nov. 20, 1969. Published by the University of British Columbia and distributed free. J.A. Banham, Editor; Barbara Claghorn, Production Supervisor. Letters to the Editor should be addressed to the Information Office, UBC, Vancouver 8, B.C. 4/UBC Reports/November 20, 1969"""@en ; edm:hasType "Periodicals"@en ; dcterms:spatial "Vancouver (B.C.)"@en ; dcterms:identifier "LE3.B8K U2"@en, "LE3_B8K_U2_1969_11_20"@en ; edm:isShownAt "10.14288/1.0118324"@en ; dcterms:language "English"@en ; edm:provider "Vancouver : University of British Columbia Library"@en ; dcterms:publisher "Vancouver: University of British Columbia Information Office"@en ; dcterms:rights "Images provided for research and reference use only. Permission to publish, copy, or otherwise use these images must be obtained from the University of British Columbia Public Affairs Office."@en ; dcterms:source "Original Format: University of British Columbia. Archives."@en ; dcterms:subject "University of British Columbia"@en ; dcterms:title "UBC Reports"@en ; dcterms:type "Text"@en ; dcterms:description ""@en .