AtoM
David Conde fonds
International Military Tribunal for the Far East
Trial transcripts
Conde, David W.
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18 SEFTEI-3ER 1946 I N D E X Of Y'lTNESSES Prosecution's "Witnesses Page Wild, Cyril Hew Dalrymple (resumed) 5768 Cross by Mr. Blewett (cont'd) 5768 " Mr. SHIOHARA 5819 I N D E X Of EXHIBITS (none) 1 2 3 4 j 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 5,767 Wednesday, 18 September, 194-6 INTERNATIONAL MILITARY TRIBUNAL FOR THE FAR EAST Court House of the Tribunal War Ministry Building Tokyo, Japan The Tribunal met, pursuant to adjournment, at 0930. Appearances: For the Tribunal, same as before. i For the Prosecution Section, same as before. For the Defense Section, same as before. • • ! (English to Japanese and Japanese to English interpretation was made by the Language Section, IMTFE.) "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 6 8 M l 0 r 2 s e 3 & 4 A 5 b r 6 a m 7 8 9 10 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 MARSHAL OF THE COURT: The International Military Tribunal for the Far East is now in session. THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Blewett. C Y R I L H E W D A R Y M P L E W I L D , called ss a witness on behalf of the prosecution, resumed the stand and testified as follows: CROSS-3XAI"lOION (Continued) BY MR. BLEWETT: Q Colonel Wild, yesterday during the examination I made reference to General Percival's wife. The information as to the basis of that question was given to me by Japanese co-counsel. We now find that it was the wife of another staff officer, but in as much as you told us yesterday that, through your intercession, certain courtesies were extended to the officers and men as to visiting their wives at Changi, we will go on from that point. While you were perhaps young during the last war, Colonel, did you at any time hear of the famous cars used in France for the transportation of troops called "40 or 8"? A -£es, I did. 0,. Now. how many persons were carried in each one of these cars from Singapore to Banpong? •t X 2 3 4 «; 6 7 S 9 20 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 6 9 A Twenty-seven was the usual number. Q Do you know whether or not there were any toilet facilities provided in these famous "40 or 8" cars we are referring to? A I do not know. Q What other conditions existed for the trans- portation of large bodies of men to the point referred to under the existing conditions? A The open country beside the railway lines. I should have thought that the obvious measure would have been to allow the troops to march, under escort, fifty yards from the tracks where it world have taken a few minutes only to dig shallow latrines with tools which we had with us. Any army — Q Just a moment, Colonel. What I have in mind in my question was whether or not there were any other modes of transportation aside from these cars. A There was the whole of the captured rolling stock of the Federated States Railways and of the Siamese Railway system. Q Fas not that the customary mode of carrying troops? A I agree I saw Japanese troops traveling in rice box cars. I never saw them congested as we were. "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 0 j i <! 1 O ; I I 9 ! 10 ! n ! 12 1 3 14 15 | 16; 17! 18 ! 1 9 | 20 21 ! 22 2 3 j 2 4 : Q Did you suggest any other mode of transporta- tion? A I remember taking pleasure in pointing out to the Japanese)as we passed one of the passenger trains of the FMS Railways with Japanese officers in it, I remember pointing out that more civilized enemies, such as the Germans and Italians, customarily carried their officer prisoners of war in the same way. That conversation, if I remember rightly, was at Seremban in Johor on the way down. Q I believe you testified, Colonel, that there was a certain benefit in the manner of placing the officers with the men which you described. A There was, indeed. It was a privilege for i the officers and a benefit for the men, and neither j regretted it, but none of us ever doubted, from the manner in which the Japanese behaved to British officers otherwise, that it was done not for our benefit but to save themselves trouble, Q That is a general observation, Colonel. I shall ask you, was it unnatural for this force to carry with it necessary baggage and equipment? A No, indeed. It would have been our salvation in the jungle and would have saved many hundreds of lives. My complaint was that, owing to the folly of , 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 12 2 3 2 4 2 5 5 , 7 7 1 "TILD CROSS our captors, we were forced to abandon nine-tenths of it at railheads. Might I say one thing? At the beginning Q Just a moment, sir. My question was specifical- ly related to the first leg of your journey. A My answer to that is that so long as the heavy baggage was packed in the train it was obviously of no benefit to us whatever. Q But it was usual and expeditious, was it not, for the baggage to be carried along with the men on the same train? A Yes, indeed. In my train the number of troops was reduced by fifty to enable us to carry extra heavy baggage in the trucks thus made available. 0 Then, on the second leg of your journey, it was not possible to transport this baggage by truck through the jungle so, therefore, was it not natural for the Japanese to store the baggage awaiting adequate shipment? A Yes, but it should have been under guard. Q After you left, of course, you don't know whether it was placed under guard or not? A I do know that it was put ultimately in a locked ^godown because we recovered it when we came out of the jungle seven months later, but by that 1 2 3 A 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 S2 2 3 2 4 2 5 5,772 "TILD CROSS time, as I have already stated, most of the valuables had been looted, including practically all the private possessions of the officers, Q You did so testify. Now, what is the average distance troops are able to do in one day? A It depends mainly on two things: their state of fitness and the kind of road they have to march over. On a good road I have marched with my battalion, when I was â ju.tefct of it. fifty-five miles in twenty-two hours. Q "as two hundred miles in fifteen days an extraordinary effort for troops trained in that area? A It was an astonishing effort of endurance and courage considering the condition they were in and the conditions in which the march was made. I suggest anyone who doubts that should try moving 2,000 men marked as non-walking sick that distance at night, on jungle tracks, through the monsoon rains. Q I understand, Colonel, that you made that trip by lorry, which is quite proper, and no doubt were under orders. A I was, as I said, under orders of my captors, and for once the orders were sensible as I was the only person there who could speak their language. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 3 Q I only said, Colonel, we appreciate the necessity of your going by lorry. There is no attempt to criticize or belittle you. It is a prelude simply for another question. Now, what I want to ask, sir, is from whom and in what manner did you derive your information as to the conditions tinder which these troops marched? A A great advantage of my traveling by lorry with the commander of F Force was that during the month in which that march was taking place we contacted again and again each of the thirteen marching parties in various stages of the march. If I had marched, my personal knowledge world have related to only one of the thirteen marching parties and my evidence would have been suspect as hearsay in regard to twelve- thirteenths of the men who marched. Q Do you mean your observation that during the last six nights of the journey the men actually were knee-deep in mud? A I, myself, marched the last four stages of the journey and found the conditions so. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 4 Q Was it physically possible to make any progress whatsoever under those conditions? A I co not suggest that the mud was knee-deep the whole of the way. The ordinary surface was cor- duroy; that is to say, tree trunks under a covering a few inches deep of extremely slippery mud. And then there were soft patches where the mud and water were literally knee-deep. Q As I recall, Colonel, that month was April, was it not, in '43? A No. The going was good except for its extreme roughness and the fact that it was cone at night until the rains broke at the end of the first week in May. I have already said the first six train parties, the Australians, reached their labor camps practically before the rains broke. Within a few days of the rains1 breaking, the road completely disappeared over very • " I long stretches, so completely that it had not been reopened when I left Siam seven months later. It was after stretches of it had disappeared, after it had become totally impossible to wheel transport that the last of our parties marched along it. Q What was your mode of travel from Tasoa to Konquita? j A I travelled by lorry as far as Konquita. 2 o z 3 5 6 S 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 i "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 5 Q What do you mean by "staging" camp? A Camp is a misnomer. It is a clearing in the jungle with accommodation for the Japanese guards. ; Q A Q A Q A and the figures were officially reported by the medical officers of the various camps to the senior medical officer in that headquarters. Q How many camps had cases of cholera? A Six. Q Did you visit all these camps? A All except one, the northernmost and smallest. Q When was it you reached Niki Niki? A About — I forget the exact date. I should say between the 10th and 15th of May. Probably the 10th, | Q What was the source of your detailed statement concerning working conditions at the numerous camps, excluding the one in which you were stationed? A I saw them for myself at five out of the six camps. I was stationed for considerable periods in three of them. Also, Colonel Harris, as commander of How long were you at Konquita? I spent a day there. Where were the cholera cases you described? At Konquita. How did you arrive at the figure 1500 cases? Because I was in the headquarters of F Force, 5 , 7 7 6 "TILD CROSS the force, and myself as his staff officer, got frequent written reports from the commanders of those camps, all of which are still on file if required. I have a num- ber of them here in Tokyo if you wish to consult them, ! or anyone else. Q Then, the details covering the working condi- tions of the camps as testified to you include five camps out of fifty; is that right? A As regards H Force, I lived with H Force in Siam for three weeks at Kanburi. I lived with the officers and men of H Force in Singapore for the rest of the war. Also, as regards a considerable number of those cs^s you mentioned, I saw them for permittedly short periods. I saw them for permittedly short periods both on my way up to the Three Pagodas Pass and again on my way down. As regards those working in Burma, A Force, I mentioned that I shared a camp with them in September 194-3 for some time. Q As I say, Colonel, we are interested more par- ticularly in what you observed; and I was asking you if it would be a fair assumption that you knew working conditions in five camps out of fifty, specifically? A Certainly I had the working conditions in five camps under my close observation for eight months, j Q Thank you. What were the facilities for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 ) "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 7 furnishing the camps with food and supplies, including building materials? A That is very difficult to say. We were more interested in whether the stuff arrived or not. The Japanese had had eight months of dry weather in which to roof those camps before we got there. Q I take it that camps must be supplied with food and other equipment day by day. What were the facilities at the point where you were located for so doing? A The main water supply route of that part of Siam is the river which comes up from Banpong to Niki. Until May, the area where we were located was accessible from north and south by dry weather roads. From May until the time I left that area it was fully accessible by water. In fact, Niki, itself, became in the wet season an inland port. Large quantities of rice were brought up that river from May onwards, and the barges were unloaded by parties of our men going out from Niki Camp. There were large godownsat Niki in which this food was stored. Our men used to store it there. These godowns were immediately next door to the prisoners of war camp at Niki and were under the control of the regiment of railway engineers for whom we were working. Q Did you ever call attention of the Japanese 2 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 7 8 officers to the fact that if the men had been better fed and better cared for they would have been able to accomplish more work? A I will tell you what Colonel Dillon, my senior officer at the time, said to the Japanese on that subject on more than one occasion, if you don't mind my quoting his words as mine. Q I asked you if you had done so, Colonel. I would like to get on a little faster, and if you will answer the questions, of course we will give you all the time in the world to explain them. t A Very well. We told the Japanese that the way they were treating their labor, both Asiatic and mili- tary, was, from a soldier's point of view, worse than a crime; it was a blunder. We told them, and I con- sider now, that if they had treated their labor pro- perly and fed it and housed it and given it reasonable working hours, they would have finished that railway by the time they wanted to. We told them then, and I consider now, that as a result of the way they treated their labor they were months later than they intended in finishing that railway, and j.n consequence lost a campaign which it was intended to supply in Burma. Q Whom did you tell that to in.responsibility at Niki Niki? 1 2 3 j 4 ! 5 | 6 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD 5 , 7 7 9 A Colonel Dillion said it there to the acting adjutant of — said it first there to the acting adju- tant of Colonel BANNO. I said it myself quoting him later to the Japanese officer at Songkrai. Q Was there any attempt made to accede to your suggestions? I A In what respect? Q In the obtaining of more food, medical supplies, and equipment. A I know that applications for more food were I made by Lieutenant Colonel BANNO to the Japanese engineers. As regards medicine, I think I have already j covered that point. Q I believe you have, sir. Where did you live when you were moved to Songkrai, is it? A I lived in one of the typical huts there, next door to the hut occupied by the Japanese. Q YiJhat was the reason for your transfer? A Because of the frequent protests that Lieu- tenant Colonel Harris, Lieutenant Colonel Dillon and I were putting up to Lieutenant Colonel BANNO. That was the only reason that we could ever think of, Q I assume you personally observed the working conditions which you described there? A Both at Niki and at Songkrai frequently] JLn_ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 13 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD fact,I might say almost daily. Q And did you get a response from your com- plaints about conditions? A I think Lieutenant Colonel BANNO did make certain futile and usually totally ineffective efforts to ameliorate them, in the sense that I believe in the early stages, at any rate, he passed on some of our protests about the flogging of men at work to the Japanese engineers. WILD CROSS 5 , 7 8 1 G r e e n b e r & B a r t o n 3 i 4 | c ) 6 ! 7 i 8 i 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 1 5 16| I i 17 13 i 19 20 21 i I I 22 25 i 2 4 25 Q Did you see any of the eight hundred British officers about fifty miles south of Songkrai under actual working conditions? A No. I only spoke to the adjutant of one of their battalions — one of their companies, and to about six others of them on the way up, and then had frequent conversations with members of those parties again at Kanburi. As to the conditions under which they worked for three years, there is, of course, an enormous mass of evidence available, par- ticularly in affidavit form. Q You mentioned Lieutenant Colonel BANNO, and you may have covered it; but, how were you treated in general by him? A I, personally, was always treated by him with civility. I shall say what I can in his favor when he comes up for trial in Singapore very shortly. Q I assume he indicated a desire to cooperate with you in the work that you were doing and accom- plishing. A I can't say that I ever got that impression, but he was not hostile to me in any way and, in some ways, quite friendly. Q You referred, Colonel, to two thousand sick men being conveyed to a hospital camp in Burma north 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 i "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 8 2 of Songkrai, 'That other means of transportation was available other than lorries? A The other means of transportation was the river from Niki to the south, water transport being the best way in the world of conveying sick men. Q 'Thy was not this method used if it was sug- gested by you? A I have never been able to understand it. The Japanese refusal was a piece of folly which cost, in my opinion, five hundred British lives. Q Did you have any concise knowledge of the shipping available at that time for that purpose? A In reference to the amount of shipping available, it was in that report from Japanese sources which was read by Mr. Comyns Carr. I, my- self, saw highly suitable rice barges going down- empty from Niki. Q By "down," do you mean north or south? A South, down to the Siam plains where the food was. Such means were, in fact, used for moving most of the sick and the working parties south of us# Q Am I right in my recollection that these wounded men were moved from Songkrai? A From Songkrai and, certainly, two other camps. "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 8 3 4 6 Q I have in my notes, Colonel, that this camp 2 : is north of Songkrai. Am I wrong? A No, you are correct. The camp selected for our sick was sixty miles north of Songkrai across Three Pagodas Pass. Q So then, to move men to this particular camp north of Songkrai, lorries would be the proper method of conveyance, would it not? A Once the original mistake had been made by the Japanese, lorries were the only method. Q Thank you, I believe you left Songkrai Camp and returned to Singapore some time in Decemberf '43, is that right? A I left Songkrai in mid-November and reached Singapore on the 24th of December. Q I think you mentioned a moment ago that you had been at the scene — along the line of the Siam- Burma railroad recently. A I did not say so. Q 'Tell, have you seen it since 1943? A No, but I am fairly well informed regarding s 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 I 1 3 ! 1 9 20 | 21 it. 23 I 2 4 ; 2 5 | I Q Under whose management is the railroad? A It is being superintended by the British and partly managed by the Siamese. 1 2 3 A 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 12 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 8 4 Q What is its condition? THE PRESIDENT: ""hat is the point of thesis two questions? MR. BLEWETT: The fact, your Honor, it seemed to me that the questions are in order inas- much as the testimony was to the effect that the rail- road was built specifically for military purposes. THE PRESIDENT: The management now and the condition now have no bearing on that. MR. BLEWETT: I see your point, sir. THE PRESIDENT: We will recess now for fifteen minutes, CWhereupon, at 1045, a recess was taken until 1100, after which the proceed- ings were resumed as follows:) MARSHAL OF THE COURT: The International Military Tribunal for the Far East is now resumed. THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Blewett. MR. BLEWETT: Thank you, sir. BY MR. BLEWETT: (Continued) Q When was it you completed your report on F force for the Kempeitai? A On about the 18th of December, 1943. Q Do you know specifically if it ever reached Tokyo? 1 2 3 A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 3 2 2 3 24 2 5 7/1LD 5,785 A I have already stated that I know no more than what I was told by the member of the Kempeitai at Kanburi. Q In one place in your testimony, Colonel Wild, you say that the Japanese has special facilities for jungle hazards and hardships. What were these? A I stated that they had facilities purely in comparison with us. They were clothing, boots, suffi- cient food, medicines and shelter. Q If that is what you had in mind, we have already covered that subject, sir. I shall refer you to document 1509-A, exhibit 457 — 475. During your long confinement as a prisoner of war were you at any time transported in a vessel at sea? A I was not, but I was in daily association over long periods with a very large number of men who had been. Q As a result of investigation by you in Tokyo, during your present stay, 26 documents have been located dealing, as, you say, with prisoners of war A Yes. Q Just a moment, sir. One has been produced, document 2647. Where are the other 25? A Undergoing translation and processing at the present time. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 5 , 7 8 6 "TILD CROSS Q Well then, you mean in the office of the prosecution, is that correct? THE PRESIDENT: He is only a witness, not a prosecutor. MR. BLEWETT: I have the answer, if your Honor please. Q Mow where was document 2647 obtained? Do ^ou have the document, Colonel? A No. ('//hereupon, the above referred to document was handed to the witness) A (Continuing) It was obtained at my suggestion, I believe, from the Office of the Demobilization Bureau. » i Q On what date was it obtained? i A I think on Wednesday last week. It certainly reached me on Thursday. Q Now, when this document was handed to you did it consist of 39 pages with a sketch attached? A There was a sketch attached. I did not count the number of pages. What I did do was screen it rapidly J with the assistance of an expert and from my notes I can state positively that document No. 2647 is complete and as I received it with the sole exception that the cover which was on the original was not in the translation. I translated it myself before the Tribunal, if you 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 1 5 16 . 1 7 X8 > . 9 so 21 22 2 3 3 4 2 5 WILD CROSS 5 , 7 8 7 remember. Q We understand. Does not the document consist of three distinct parts? A Quoting from memory I should say at least that. Q And was it your opinion that the cover purports to be the personal signatures guaranteeing the authorship of the three documents? A The seals on the cover merely confirm what Colonel SUGITA told me about a week before the document was discovered. He told me that members of the committee were Colonel OISHI and Colonel — I think it was — KUNITAKE, and that when the report was finished by his committee he himself had personally presented it to Lieutenant General WAKAMATSU. He did not tell me that the document was still in existence. I guessed that. It was therefore merely confirmation when I found his signature and that of two officers of his sub-committee on the document. The. third signature I mentioned,I forget now, it was either HASHIZUME I or KUNITAKE. He told me that both were on his sub- committee . Q Was it your impression that Colonel SUGITA included the three portions of the document? I A I take it you are referring particularly to the attachments from the diaries. It was no surprise to i 1 2 3 4 | 5 i 6 ! 7 8 ! 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 5 , 7 8 8 "TILD CROSS find them there. It was Colonel SUGITA who particularly- told me that Lieutenant General KAWAJURA had given evidence before the sub-committee, and what Colonel SUGITA told me referred particularly to two conferences between KAWAMURA and General YAMASHITA, to which reference is made in the diaries. However, as the result of additional investigations which I have done in the intervals of appearing as a witness in ! this Court, I have every hope to produce much more conclusive evidence later. Q f̂iere really are four parts to this, Colonel. I was mistaken, really two: one purporting to be extracts from a diary of Major General KAWAMURA, and the other excerpts from the diary with no name given. Now, is it also your impression that Colonel SUGITA meant to include the"Process Verbal", as it is called, dated October 23, 1945, also a portion of this document? A Considering that Colonel SUGITA and the four officers of the sub-committee were especially selected by Lieutenant General WAEA?rATSU on account of their personal knowledge of the Malayan Campaign, I take it that this "Process Verbal" is the findings of SUGITA's sub-committee. Lieutenant General WAKAMATSU himself told me that that had been the basis of the selection of the sub-committee and that one of the reasons was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 •i WILD CROSS 5 , 7 P 9 that r>ost official war office documents had been destroyed at the conclusion of the war. In fact, I see it is headed by the Fourth Unit, a point queried by Doctor KIYOSE, and that is explained by the cover i of the document which bears the Japanese words "Dai Shihan," meaning the Fourth Unit or Section,against the names of these three officers. Q We desire your reasoning on that point, Colonel, j and I expected to afek you later about it, but I assume from your reasoning that Colonel SUGITA did not specifically tell vou that this particular part was a part of the document? A No,indeed ̂ because he had left already for Singapore before the document came into my hands. Q I was under the impression this conversation took place in Tokyo. Where did it take place and when? A It took place in Sugamo Prison during three days about a fortnight ago. Q Oh, Z see. I think you did explain that. This conversation took place before you located this docu ment? A Certainly, it was only as the result of a liVle detective work on studying my notes of my conversation with Colonel SUGITA that I guessed there might be such a document and its twenty-five companions. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 i "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 0 Q Then, of course, Colonel SUGITA did at no time see these papers as put together under document 2647? A I imagine he put them together so himself when he handed them to General WAKAMATSU. Q That is an assumption, of course, as you indicate. A But a reasonable one, I hope. Q Now, Colonel, directing your attention to the cover that you state was found in the pages themselves and not on the top do you — MR. BLEWETT: Perhaps I — (to the interpreters section) Go ahead with that. i A I did say that it was found inside and not on top when the papers were handed to me here. C. v'/kJ 5 , 7 9 1 MR. BLEYvETT: Just a moment, pie as e. If the Tribunal please, I think it would be of help to the witness if he had the original document, particularly the cover referred to. TEE WITNESS: May I explain that point, please? MR. BLEWETT: Just a moment. Well, I think that is quite clear about your locating the cover. THE WITNESS: I don't think it is quite. MR. BLEWETT: There is no intimation, Colonel, that there Is anything erroneous about that. That question was merely put as the start of another sentence — a prelude to another sentence; but, of course, you may explain as far as you like. THE WITNESS: I have already explained to the Tribunal that when the documents first reached me, the cover was on top. Bv m . BLEWETT (Continuing): Q Now, directing your attention to tine cover specifically, I shall ask you to read to whom it is directed. A I don't see an address on it myself, but since my dictionary was confiscated in the early stages of my captivity, I am not so good at reading Japanese as I was before the war. In fact, if there 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 2 is going to be any question of my trying to read, it would save a lot of time if I had an expert with me. Q You seemed to read it quite readily the other day, and I was basing my question on that ability, which I understood you had. Maybe I can assist you in some way here. Now can you tell me if these words are on that cover; "To Central Investigating Committee of POW," and under that, "Investigating Office Concern- ing P0W"? A I can make shift, as I did here the other day, to see that both of those addresses are on it, but I don't see any sign of "to" or "from." Q Can you make out — MR. COMYNS CARR: Might I ask, it would save time if the Language Officer would look at it, and tell us what really is on it. THE PRESIDENT: We direct him to do so. (Whereupon, the document above re- ferred to was submitted to the Language Arbiter, Major Moore, for examination.) THE PRESIDENT: You may continue with your cross-examination on other matters. Q Do you know the full name of Colonel SUGITA? A SUGITA, Ichiji. 2 2 _ 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 3 Q Is his signature on the cover in his full name? A As I stated, the three officers' names are written merely name and rank in the same hand in ink. The three seals are affixed below each name. Q Well, what do you consider the personal signature of Colonel SUGITA, the stamp? A I only know that when I lived in Kyoto, they would not accept my written signature at all there, and I had to sign all documents with a chop to my name; but I am quite willing to believe that a fuller signature would be to write it in Japanese and seal it, I don't know. Q What is the customary manner in which a Japanese signs his name? A With the brush, I should say, or pen, and strengthened in an official document by a seal. I have been out of this country for nearly seven years. I am rather out of date* Q Now there are three names signed, as you say, with the same penmanship? A I didn't say they were signed. I said they were written. Q I accept your correction. You are quite right. Now these three are designated as Colonel 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 J 5 , 7 9 4 "TILD CROSS SUGITA, Colonel 0-I-S-H-I, I think it is — THE WITNESS: 01SHI. Q (Continuing) — OISHI, and Colonel HASHI- ZUME. Then there is a stamp at the end of each name. Is that what you mean by the personal signature, Colonel? A Exactly; the personal seal, I said, of each officer has been affixed below his name, but I never suggested that either of those officers had written the name above it* He well may have, but it needs no expert in calligraphy to see that if he did, he wrote all three. Q Could you state that these personal stamps or seals were made by the individuals themselves? A I do recall that there are the most serious penalties in the penal code of Japan for the use of a personal seal except by the owner or by somebody with the express permission of the owner. Q Not being familiar with it, I may be hazy, Colonel, but you cannot say that these three indi- viduals made these particular stamps on this document? A No, but I think that any of your Japanese colleagues will tell you how strong the presumption is that either they or their authorized agents did so. It is most Improbable that the illegal use of senior 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 5 officers' personal seals was permitted in the Japanese War Office. Q Have you received the English translation of the cover? A Not of the cover. THE PRESIDENT: Major Moore. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): If the Tribunal please, the signatures and seals and so forth to which the witness is making reference have not been translated. We request that, if possible, we be allowed time to translate the whole of the cover, indicating which is mimeographed, which is written in ink, and which is written in Japanese black ink, and which is written in ordinary ink. I feel, sir, that it will clear up this point. THE PRESIDENT: Well, that may be desirable, but a short point was referred to you, if I do not misapprehend the position, namely, whether the words ( "to" and "from" appear there before the names of the committees. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moored: That part, sir, is on the cover in ink. MR. BLEWETT: If your Honor please, the main substance of my final cross-examination is based upon this cover. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 6 TEE PRESIDENT: You will have to defer your cross-examination until we get that full trans- lation. You may do so, but haven't you something else to cross-examine about? MR. BLEWETT: That is the final stage of my examination, sir. I may be able to inquire concerning the document aside from the cover for the remaining period, sir. THE PRESIDENT: Now the papers before the witness appeared to be altogether before they were handed to him, and they also appear to have been separated into two parts by Dr. KIYOSE and Captain Brooks. That may be a misapprehension on the part of myself and one of my colleagues, I would like that cleared up. MR. BROOKS: If the Tribunal please, that is what I was calling to counsel's attention, that the document the Court has is numbered consecutively from 1 to 39, I believe it is, but that the documents there are separate. They are separate in their original form and could not bear such consecutive numbering. The excerpts from the diary — I don't believe there is any number on them at all, as I recall from my brief examination — and the one 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 7 document bears the numbers from 1 to 9j and then there is another document from 1 to another number which — I don't recall what the last figure is — but they are separated there and loosely bound to- gether 5 but we are not pulling them apart. Dr. KIYOSE says he thinks the other number was from 1 to 16, and that I think — believe is what Mr. Blewett was going to question the witness on — whether this was done by the prosecution — the number of this — the exhibit number before the Court from 1 to 39 — I believe it is important because I don't believe the cover was over all of these. THE PRESIDENT: I think this is a convenient break. We will adjourn now until half past one. (Whereupon, at 1154, a recess was taken.) "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 8 1 A b 3 r a 4 m & 5 ) 6 M 0 7 r s a 8 1 e 9 ! 10 1 1 ; 12 ! 13 : 1 4 1 5 1 6 j 17 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 5 ! 2 4 2 5 AFTERNOON SESSION \ The Tribunal met, pursuant to recess, at 1330. MARSHAL OF THE COURT: The International Military Tribunal for the Far East is now in session. C Y R I L H E W D 4 L R f fi P L: E' ' W I L D, called as a witness on behalf of the prose- cution, resumed the stand and testified as follows: THE PRESIDENT: Major Moore. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore)s If the Tribunal please, referring to prosecution's document No. 2647, it is in five parts. Page 1 of the document, the Japanese, and I refer to the English pages, since the document has in its five parts, is not numbered - the pages are not numbered consecutively. MR. BLEWETT: If the Tribunal please, it was my recollection that Major Mocre was asked to translate the first page, the cover. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): As I re- member, if the Tribunal please, the last problem be- fore the Tribunal was whether there were several documents or whether it was one document. THE PRESIDENT: We will hear you first on 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 t "TILD CROSS 5 , 7 9 9 the translation of the first page. Major Moore. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): If the Tribunal please, the reference is made to page 1, 1 presume, and if there is no objection, I take it to mean page 21 of the English document, which cor- responds to page 1 of the report, of the outline of the report. THE PRESIDENT: I don't know what number it is, but it is the page purporting to bear the sig- natures, or the names and the seals, of three lieutenant colonels, 1 think it is. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): Yes, sir. The page in question reads as follows: "Original. Top Secret," and then in ink, "To" - addressed to - : "POW Affairs Investigative Department, POW Central j Investigative Committee," and then stenciled, "Out- line of the Investigation Concerning Inhumane Acts (principally against the Chinese) during the Malay (Singapore) operation." Again stenciled, "22 November, 1945," and taking the prosecution's trans- lation, group No. 4. In ink, "Department Chief," with the inked initial SUBO." In ink, "Officer in Charge, the seal HlhANUMA." "Members of Department." Pencil initial illegible, the pencil initial liAKA and ink TAKETOMI. In ink, with the threg names of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 7; ILD CROSS 5 , C e o officers in the same handwriting. Fourth Group Colonel SUGITA, Colonel OISHI, Lieutenant Colonel HASHIZUI.dE, each bearing underneath the name a seal. That completes that page, sir. MR. COMYNS CAIIR: I would like to ask Major Moore a question, please. MR. BLEWETT: It seems to me, sir that the redirect should come following the cross-examination. MR. COMYNS CARL: It is Major Moore, not Colonel Wild. On page 21 of the English translation there appears at the top the words "Section 3"» Ought that to be there, or is it on the original or is it a mistake that those words have got on there? LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): If the Tribunal please, sir, they are not a part of the original document and it is presumed that they are an inadvertence on the part of the translators. THE PRESIDENT: Before you go, Major Moore, you might clear up that matter you mentioned first. LANGUAGE ARBITER: (Major Moore) If the Tribunal please, it seems to be that the document which is numbered 2647 by the prosecution is really five documents. There are three initials, or two initials and one seal on the first page, which cor- respond to seals on what would be in English the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 i 7; ILD CROSS 21st page, or the first page of the report. THE PRESIDENT: Are there five documents within the compass of 21 pages? LANGUAGE AREITER (Major Moore): We checked hurriedly, sir, through the original, comparing it with the English. The English has 39 pages and we would say that the translation is of the five documents. Page 21, sir, is the first page of the so-called report, outline of report. THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. ' Mr. Blewett. MR. BLEWETT: Major Moore, would you hand the witness the original document, please? THE PRESIDENT: Major Moore. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): If the Tribunal please, sir, my colleagues have called my attention to the fact that there is on the back of the cover page a list of the officers of the 25th Army which have not been translated. (thereupon, Major Moore handed a document to the witness). CROSS -ZSi&iuIit/iTIGIT (C ont inued) m MR. BLEWETT: Q I shall ask you, Colonel, if you will kindly look at the original document 2647 and verify the statement of Major Moore, at least to assure 1 2 3 4 5 6 . 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 J 6 1 7 18 i 9 3 0 21 £2 2 3 3 4 2 5 7; ILD CROSS 5,602 yourself that there are five distinct portions. A There appear to be, sir. Q Nov;, do those five separate portions con- sist of first, the excerpt from the diary? A There again, if I am going to do this quickly, I must ask for a little expert assistance. I can do it, but it would waste the Tribunal's time. Q Well, I was assuming that you are familiar with the English translation, A I have indeed read the English translation, but out of these documents it would take me a little time to recognize accurately the corresponding Japanese. As I say, I can do .it, but it will waste the Tribunal's "Cime. It is as the Tribunal pleases. Q I shall ask you if that original document is what purports to be prosecution's document No. 2647? A At a quick glaree, yes. Certainly the documents look identical with those which I saw, except that there were some duplicates of the type- written part attached when I got it. Q Is that document in five portions numbered consecutively from 1 to 39? I refer to the original, Colonel Wild, A I do not see it on the original. 7; ILD CROSS 5,£03 Q Can you tell us hew the original pages are numbered? A The one I am looking at is not numbered 4: at all. Q Can you tell us, Colonel, how many pages there are in Japanese on the first portion? A One, two, three four, of the diary. CJ Now, is that a portion of the diary which you discussed with General KAWAMURA? A I showed him the photostated part of that as I received it with the English translation here. That is to sa"r, I took the first, I think it is seven pages o the photostated edition, checked the dates on them with the English version, so that I had the two sections, handed them to him and said, "Is this your diary, or from your diary"? Q Is there a second portion there headed, "Extracts from the diary of Major General KAWAMURA"? A 1 see this is headed "The Diary." I am not familiar with the characters that follow the charac- ters of "Diary." It may well mean excerpts. I can see that the first entry is February 18th. There are four characters, the first pair of which mean diary, and the second pair may or may not mean ex- cerpts f I am unable to say. 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 ! 2 5 i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 • WILD CBOSS 5 , 3 0 4 Q I take it that the photostat you refer to cover the first seven pages of the exhibit as trans- lated. A That is correct. Q You may have transposed the two excerpts, inasmitch as the one marked page 1 of the translation is dated February 18th and the other, which has the heading, is dated February l6th. A That is not correct, in so far as my in- terview, with General KAWAMURA was concerned. What I did with him was, I took the photostated copy of the exhibit and the English copy of the exhibit. I then checked the fact that one of the photostated copies bears the word "Diary," with which I am familiar. 1 thejn checked off the dates, so that I had February I8tft to March 18th on one. The next photo- stated pages were February 16th to February 18th, which I recognized from the dates. That amounted to seven pages, while the eight,as it started with February 7th and was therefore identifiable with page 8 of the English exhibit, I did not give to him. I then said, "Is this your diary," and he said, "Yes, it is," and used it for purposes of which he was writing for about one hour. "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 0 5 D 1 u a 2 j a 3 & 4 i W h c | a | 1 6 j e n 7 I 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 | 18 j 1 9 ! 20 21 1 2 3 j 2 4 | 2 5 j Q Is there any significance to you, Colonel, in your knov^ledge of Japanese that in both portions of the diary referred to the same dates are used quite often but the wording on the same facts are different, and at times in a different person? What is your explanation? A I have no definite explanation. I can only conjecture at the present stage. But when I have Major General KAWAMURA's complete diary in my hands in a few days' time, I shall probably be able to answer. It hasn't reached me yet from southern Japan, but it is in our hands, I have every reason to believe. Q Have you any hesitation in asserting that both these documents were not written by the General? A I am inclined to think that one represents verbal extracts from his diary — verbatim extracts, I should say. Q What kind? A Verbatim. And the other represents remarks which he made to Colonel SUGITA's committee on his diary with the benefit of having it before him. This conjecture is supported by the fact that that is the sort of homework that he was doing for me in Sugamo Prison recently, the only difference being that on this later occasion he had the benefit of having not only WILD CROSS 5 , 8 0 6 6 6 10 11 12 the extracts from the diary, but also the excerpt from the diary before him in the pages of the photo- stated exhibit. a Q Who prepared these documents, Colonel, the 5 j two we are speaking about? A You mean the photostated copies? 7 Q Who made those originals? 8, A I can't tell you. Q Is there any identification mark whatsoever on either one of the diaries? A I must repeat that at no time while I have been before this Tribunal have I pretended to be a I | professional reader of Japanese documents. I can 14 makeshift to do so with assistance of dictionaries, 15 | or with somebody helping me, 161 Q We appreciate your help, Colonel. We will go on as best we can, Now, can you tell me whether or not — I will withdraw that question.. You referred to 19 a document on which the first date is February 7 which 20 you did not show the General, A I was not quite correct. I showed him the heading only but did not leave it with him to read. Q My question-was simply for the purpose of identification. Is there a third document there called "Abstracts" -on which the first date inserted is 21 24 : 5,607 WILD CROSS 3' I 4 i «; | 6 i 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 j 15 I 16 I I 1 7 ! IS ; 1 9 | 20 j 21 24 25 February 7? A In the Japanese^ you mean? Q It purports to be page 8 of the translation. A That is correct. It comes on the second page of the document in question; the date comes there. Q Pardon me, did I hear you say that is Wo. 2 in that document, the original — page 2, I should say? A That is so. The first page contains the heading as given on page 8, and also the first para- graph. I Q What is the last date referred to in that ) portion? A April 16. Q Can you help us, Colonel, by giving us some idea as to who prepared that original document? A I don't see anything written on it, but that may be my fault. Q I note that portion of the document has num- bered pages whereas the diary does not, A These pages are not numbered, Q I heard you say page 2, Colonel, I thought from that remark that the pages were numbered, but maybe you meant the second page, perhaps? A I meant the second page by my counting, I see instead the documents are numbered, but that is by WILD CROSS 5 , 8 0 8 4 I I I 5 I 6 ! 7 ! I 8 i 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 15 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 ; 22 231 2 4 ! translator, I think, in pencil. Q What is t he number? A The first number is 3. Q Now, will you be so good as to find the original of what is called a "Processed Verbal"-dated October 23, 194-5? A I have it. Q Are you able to tell us the number "of pages'- in'that particular portion of the document? ' * A There appears to be 18 and a map. Q Ycu mr,y be looking at the paper dated. .Novem- ber 22 which, I think, has a map. A Well, the cover is right because 1-can..read' most of that. The. date is certainly 23 -October.. • The. title,of which I can read the majority, is correctr Q Did I understand you to say that you will., give us the title? . . A I beg your pardon? Q I thought I understood you to-sa-y that yon" would read the title. A I can makeshift to translate, Q I am not asking you for it. You- volunteered.... I thought I heard you say that. I am sorry* Now, are those pages numbered in any way? A No, they are not. The paragraphs are numbered. "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 0 9 1 1 Q i Well, did you tell me there was a map attached? A At the end of the section, yes. 3 Q Well, now, I hope we are not mixed up, because 4 there is a map on the fifth document. 5 I have the situation cleared up, Colonel. 6 There was a map on the original which is not in the 7 translation. S A I was right, then? 9 Q Yes, indeed. Very good work. Now I shall 10 direct your attention to the fifth and final portion 1 1 of this document, and also call your attention to the 1 2 cover, so-called, and wfrich has been translated by 1 3 Ma.ior Moore. Can you tell us what that purports to be 1 4 from the original? i 1 5 A Which portion? 1 6 Q The fifth portion, the last one. 1 7 A I appear to have mislaid it. 1 8 Q Beg pardon? 19 A I appear to have mislaid it. 2 0 Q Can you identify that? 2 1 A Not at the moment, no. Q I did not quite get your answer, sir. 2 3 A I said I appear to have mislaid it. I can't 2 4 see it at the moment. 2 5 Q Oh, I see. TOD CROSS 5 , 8 1 0 G r e e n b e r & B a r t o n 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 | 1 3 1 9 • | 20 | 21 22 2 3 | 2 4 i MR. c o r n s CARR: It is over there by your right hand. THE ''TTNESS: Here we've got the top. Q Now, that may be it. A 'That does the fifth purport to be in the English? Q It has the same title that the cover page has, identical. A Page? Q Page 21 I understand that cover was to be. Do you have the cover, Colonel? A Sorry, I can't hit on it. Q Page 21? A I have the English version in front of me, but I can't find the other. Q 'fill you please look at the English version. Now, is there any significance. Colonel, in the fact that the cover, so-called, bears the same lettering, writing, as page 21 of the Enfli^h translation? THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Comyns Carr. MR. COMYNS CARR: I think my friend's ques- tion Is based on a misapprehension. I did not under- stand Major Moore to say that the words at the top of page 21 appear again on this part of the document. As I understood what he told us, they are a part of WILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 1 3 4 9 10 11 12 1 3 I I 1 4 : 1 5 • 16 | 1 7 | IS | 1 9 20 2 4 25 the cover which our translators somewhat erroneously have put on page 21. I did not understand that there was a repetition of it. Perhaps Major Moore can clear it up. THE PRESIDENT: Major Moore. LANGUAGE ARBITER (Major Moore): Page 21 of the English down through "POW Affairs Central Inves- tigative Committee," plus the additions which were read, are the words found on the cover page of the report. Turning the page, there are a list of Army officers of the 25th Army, and the text begins with what would ordinarily be page 1 of .the document. THE '"ITNESS: I have the document for which I was looking. Q Beg your pardon? A I have now in my hands the document for which I was looking; it was the one which Mr. Comyns Carr suggested, on my right. I must point out, when you refer to fifth or sixth parts, they are not ar- ranged in that order, and they are not numbered so. Q I understand. A Therefore, without the English version to check the Japanese with, until you told me the page on the English version, it was quite impossible for WILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 2 3 7 S 9 10 me to identify it or, I think, for anybody qualified to read Japanese. Q Now, page 21 of the document 2647 is attached 4 i to this particular paper and is the cover, is it not? 5 J I will qualify that by stating that only that portion 6! down to number 1 is part of that cover and part of the top page which you have in your hands, is that correct? A The passage on page 21 between the words "Section III" and Roman figure I, represent the cover 11 ; with the exception that the amendments read out to us 12 are not included. Q Right. Colonel, I am going to ask you how the names which are Inscribed upon that page can in 1 any way be attributed to the document dated October 23, 1945. A I may have misunderstood you, but the cover surely bears a later date, namely the 22nd of November, 1945. Q Right. A The names appear immediately above that date, Q Do you see any connection whatsoever with the cover, so-called, on that document and the one which is included in the prosecution's document and beginning on page 12? 1 3 ; I 1 4 1 5 ! 16 1 7 | 1 3 : 1 9 20 21 I 22! 2 3 | 2 4 i 25 "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 3 1 j A I can't see the difficulty. As the document 2 | beginning page 12 was compiled by the Fourth Unit on 3 the 23rd of October, 194-5, surely there is no reason A why it should not be included under the cover also 5 I marked the Fourth Unit with a later date. <5 7 O o 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 IS 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 Q Does it not seem more tenable, Colonel, that the cover pertains only to this report named "Section III" to which it is attached, and no other paper? A Well, that I rather cannot say because, as I see it, these documents were documents on which the Fourth Committee or sub-committee was working. They have not, I agree, been finalized, apparently, by the Central Committee, so-called, but they were found all together in the Demobilization Bureau, I believe, as the fruits of the work of that sub- committee. Something, perhaps the final demobiliza- tion of the Japanese Army, prevented them being put into that neat and final form which Dr. KIY0SE said they should be in. No one else except Colonel SUGITA1s sub-committee was interested in this mater- ial. It was all found together with this cover on top (indicating); and, rightly or wrongly, I thought the material valuable as it bears the official mark "Top Secret," 1 2 3 4 | 3 ! 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 7; ILD CROSS 5,614 THE PRESIDENT: We will recess now for fifteen minutes. (hereupon, at 1445, a recess was taken until 1500, after which the proceed- ings were resumed as follows:) MARSHAL OF THE COURT: The International Military Tribunal for the Far East is now resumed. THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Blewett. MR. BLEWETT: What was the last question or answer? (WhereuDon, the last question and answer were read by the official court reporter.) BY MR. BLEWETT: (Continued) Q What proof, Colonel, is there on the intro- duction which we classify as page 21 to connect that up with the document dated October 23, 1945? A I am sorry, I shall have to have that question read again. I am dealing with English and Japanese documents and with two separate languages. (Whereupon, the last question was read by the official court reporter.) THE WITNESS: Can you give me the English page of the October 23d document? MR. BLEWETT: Twenty-one, page 21 — wait a minute, page 12. 1 2 3 4 5 6 • 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 J "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 5 A Both were compiled by the Fourth Section. Q Is that all? A They deal with the same matter. MR. COMYNS CARR: May it please the Tribunal, in my submission, it is not a matter of argument and is not a question to ask the witness. THE PRESIDENT: Well, it is really argument. He is giving his deductions from the documents but I am inclined to let him do so subject to what my colleagues think. I do think we are wasting a lot of time about this matter; nevertheless, we might as well have it threshed out now. The witness may be able to assist the Tribunal on this particular phase. MR. BLEWETT: If your Honor please, the defense is not objecting so much to the introduction of the papers provided they are introduced at the proper time and with satisfactory evidence. THE PRESIDENT: This is the proper time and what is satisfactory evidence is a matter to be determined later, of course. However, let us hear the witness on this point. Q Your answer, Colonel, was that it was — THE PRESIDENT: You were proceeding to explain your views of that collection of documents. THE WITNESS: It would appear to me that 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 i 5 , 8 1 6 WILD CROSS the "Process Verbal," page 12 of the English version, dated 23d of October, is a collection of evidence by SUGITA1s committee. In the report of written records which General WAKAMATSU told me had been destroyed, they had pooled their own information and that of witnesses, such as General KAWAMURA. They buried a few protests already received from the Allies. j THE PRESIDENT: Do those documents, Colonel, ; represent a build-up? Do those documents represent a build-up from a number of reports to a final report which is put under this much-debated cover? | THE WITNESS: It seems to me, your Honor, that the "Process Verbal" includes the information they got and the stage they reached towards the end of October. During the succeeding months they com- piled the report starting on page 21, which was their report to the Central Committee. Both documents bear the heading, "Fourth Section," which I am informed was Colonel SUGITA's, and he himself told me that that section was in session under his chairmanship from the end — from September until November. THE PRESIDENT: Is any other Section referred to in the file? THE WITNESS: Subject to correction, I think 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 7 not. THE PRESIDENT: Yes. BY MR. BLEWETT: (Continued) 0 Do you have the same explanation, Colonel, for the other three portions of the exhibit, including the diary and the abstracts? A Yes. We know General KAWAMURA appeared before the committee as a witness, both from him and from Colonel SUGITA. The notes represent extracts taken by the committee from his diary, notes of what he said about it, and extracts taken from the "Top Secret Diary." Those three formed material for Colonel SUGITA's committee's report. They were all left together, possibly in support of the report itself; possibly by oversight. C Then are we to understand that you attribute to Colonel SUGITA and his committee the entire author- ship for document 2647? A Not necessarily the authorship but the compilation of these documents, yes. Q Just one thing, Colonel. I believe you promised to look up for me the number of troops stationed on Singapore Island at the time of the surrender of the English? A I don't recall making such a promise and I WILD CROSS 5 , 8 1 8 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 25 ! am afraid I haven't done so. 2 Q We shall not hold you to it then, sir. 3 j In the course of your experience as a prisoner of 4 war you came into contact with many Japanese officers and men who you stated were considerate and who co- operated with you in trying to better the lot of yovrdelf and your men. A I did not say there were many of them. I said there were some. Q Would you agree then, Colonel, that the treatment the prisoners received depended to a great extent on the individual Japanese officers and the men under them? A A good Japanese officer — and I recall two in particular who were an honor to their army and country -- could make a considerable difference to the prisoners in their particular camp. Unfortunately they were both junior officers and I did not encounter similar compassion and humanity in the higher ranks of the Japanese Army. It could have made a far greater difference. MR. BLEWETT: If your Honor please, I believe there is some other counsel vifao wish to take part in the cross-examination. MR. SHIOHARA: I am SHIOHARA. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD CROSS 5,£-19 THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for whom? MR. SHIOHARA: For the accused KIMURA. CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. SHIOHARA: Q Is the document which Counsel Blewett asked you about a while ago, Mr. Witness, the same as exhibit No. 475, and did you get complete possession of it at the same time? In other words, that is the document relating to an outline of an investigation on the ill treatment of prisoners of war during the Malayan operations? A No. That document, No. 475, has been in translation for several months. I was informed, however, by General WAKAMATSU that a document of that name emanated also from the Central POW Investigation Committee. Q With respect to the document referred to and asked about by Counsel Blewett, did you go to the Mobilization Bureau yourself to obtain it — to the First Mobilization Ministry? A No, it was an American officer, I understand. Q Now I understand. Mr. Witness, do you know of the Geneva Convention concerning treatment of prisoners of war, dated July 27, 1929? A I have read it sometime ago. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WILD CROSS 5 , 8 2 0 Is Japan bound by the terms of this Con- vention? MR. COMYNS CARR: That is not a question for the witness. THE PRESIDENT: No, the witness will not answer. Objection upheld. ; MR. SHIOH/RA; I should like to remark to you, Mr. President, that this witness is testifying along the lines that Japan had violated the terms of this Convention and that his line of testimony is on the basis of such a violation. ) THE PRESIDENT: He is testifying as a j soldier. He is an c-xnert in military matters, but not in matters of international law. His testimony may be based or the assumption that the Geneva Con- vention anc other conventions apply to Japan, but the application or non-application of that or any other convention is not a matter for him. ( BY MR. SRIOK; RA (Continuing): | Then I shall ask questions along another line, i • I q Mr. ""itness, you have testified to the r effect that many civilians in general, including women and children, were confined in Changi Prison. Now were these civilians confined elsewhere at first, and then transferred to Changi Prison later? 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD CROSS 5 , 6 2 1 A I believe for a very short neriod, a matter of a week or so, they were at the Sea View Hotel or somewhere near it. Q We have heard, Mr. Witness, that at that time there were among the civilians a number of prostitutes mixed in the group, and that many of the British ladies of the higher class had protested the idea of mixing — being mixed with them, and that it was accordingly that they asked the Japanese authorities to transfer them to Changi Prison which would be perfectly all right with them. We have heard that, have you, and what do you think of it? A Well, I could only sr.y that most of these white women had been living quite happily, peace- fully in Malaya for many years among the peace-loving people of Malaya. If immediately the Japanese took control of Malaya, these ladies found it necessary to be shut up in the narrow confines of Changi Gaol for their own protection, I can only see one explan- ation. As for any friction among the ladies them- selves, I never heard of it. Q Is it so that the Changi Internment Camp is located within the Changi fortified zone, and^ therefore, within the same zone as Changi Prison, and constitutes one of the buildings of the prison? 1 o 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD CROSS 5 , 8 2 2 A We didn't go in for the same arrangement as regards fortified zone as regards the Japanese. The only fortified zone of Changi was within a few • yards of each of the guns, but it is true that the place where the prisoners of war were confined was about two miles away from Changi Gaol where the civilians were confined. Q With respect to allocation of rooms within the prison itself, were not these matters entrusted to a committee of the internees who were more or less self-autonomous with respect to such matters? A Yes, but when you have to fit three thousand, five hundred prisoners into a prison built for seven hundred, it doesn't leave the autonomous committee much choice. They can't be blamed for putting three or four men or women in a one-man cell when there are, say, eighty of them for twenty cells. Q Mr. Witness, you testified that you heard the address by Fbreign Secretary Eden in January, 1944. Where was it — where did you hear this speech? A I didn't hear it. I said that I read the full transcript of it. That was in Changi Camp. Q At Changi Prison, as well as at other prisoner of war camps, were there not nests of con- spirators, so-called, by reason of the fact that the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 25 I "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 2 3 prisoners had secret radio-receiving sets and other information-gathering setups, and other organizations to obstruct the activities of the Indian National Army? THE PRESIDENT: The witness need not answer that. That also is a question of law. Q Isn't it proper to say that Indian troops had been freed on oath, and after that joined the Indian National Army? A I don't understand the expression "freed on oath." Q Paroled on oath. A Not that I heard of; but I did say that a few went over after that meeting in Farrar Park, j but only a very few. Whether they were on parole, i I don't know. i Q It seems, if my impression is not mistaken, that you, Mr. vritness, criticized the arrangement of separating Indian troops from their British officers. As I see it, it was a matter of convenience to the Japanese Army and not a matter of criticism. Do you still hold on to your view? THE PRESIDENT: There is no need to answer it. A I criticized it because of the abominable way in which some of the Indian troops were treated 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 "TILD CROSS 5 , 8 2 4 when removed from the protection of their officers; and it was because we foresaw that treatment that British officers wanted to stay with the Indian troops and protect them from it. Q Are you aware of the fact, Mr. Witness, that in the Geneva Convention of 1929 that I refer to, it has been stipulated that it would be better to separate different nationalities in the same camp? A This reminds me, if I may say so, of many arguments in captivity when the Geneva Convention was always quoted against us, and we were always told, on the other hand, that it wasn't binding on the Japanese. THE PRESIDENT; Obviously, it has no application to soldiers in the same army. Q I understand from what you told in response to a question by Mr. Blewett yesterday that you heard that reports with respect to prisoners of war camps were sent to the central Army authorities in Tokyo from your friend Underwood. However, you did not know, did you, that these reports were not sent to the central Army authorities in Tokyo, but to the Southern Supreme Army from which it did not go any further? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 25 WILD CROSS 5 , 6 2 5 A That is against — in contradiction of what I have heard myself. The fact that reports were being made to Tokyo was quoted to me again and again by Japanese officers in captivity. I was also told recently by Lieutenant Colonel NAGAT0M0, the Commander of A Force on the Eurma-Siam Railway, which I have mentioned, that all reports for Siam were collected by General SASA's headquarters at Tasoa, he being the G. 0. C. Prisoners of War, Siam, and were forwarded, one to the Southern Army, and one to the headquarters of the P0's" Administration in Tokyo. Q Is this person one who assisted the Japanese in making out the report? A Which prisoner, I don't understand? Q The person who told you that one report was sent to the Southern Army, and the other to the POW Administration in Tokyo. A No, he is at present in Singapore. Ke also gave me a full account of the first meeting of the prisoners of war chiefs which took place in June, 1942. He is well informed on prisoner of war information. Q rhere is Lieutenant Colonel NAC-AT0M0 at the present? A I have said that he was in Singapore, but 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 WILD CROSS 5 , 8 2 6 whether he is still alive or not, I am not certain. Q Was there any Communists among the Chinese in Malaya? A Yes, why not? Q I am not asking "why not" or other reasons. I am asking whether there were any. Did Major O'Neill and Captain Marriott have anything to do with Chinese Communists and Chinese anti-Communist elements attempting to disturb — THE MONITOR: Anti-Japanese Communists — Q (Continuing): — anti-Japanese Communists in cutting Japanese lines of communications and so forth? A No, I never heard so. I am sure if they had, they would have told me. The proof that they had not is that they were so well treated by the Japanese battalion that captured them. I know that they were fed during their withdrawal in the jungle by Asiatics wherever possible. I am sure they would have been fed by Communist Asiatics just as much as by non-Communist ones, and would not have troubled to find out particular political affiliations of those who fed them. 0 With respeet to Chinese Communists and other anti-Japanese elements which the Japanese and SUGITA 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 17 13 1 9 20 21 22 2 3 2 4 2 5 7; ILD CROSS called "bad men", how were these elements directed by your Army? A They were not directed in any way, unless they were members of the British Armed Forces. In any case, I think it is a wrong assumption that the people who were shot on the beach were necessarily such people. There is no evidence to show it. In fact, there is now ample evidence to show that many hundreds of those, if not thousands, who were shot by the Japanese in Singapore had committed no offense whatever except being young men and Chinese. THE PRESIDENTs We will adjourn now until half-past nine tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 1558, an adjournment was taken until Thursday, 19 September 1946, at 0930.)
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September 18, 1946 (p.5767.5827)
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