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British Columbia Historical Books Collection
Canada. Royal Commission on Chinese Immigration
"(Canada. Sessional papers, 1902, no. 54) Chairman: R. C. Clute." -- Lowther, B. J., & Laing, M. (1968). A bibliography of British Columbia: Laying the foundations, 1849-1899. Victoria, BC: University of Victoria, p. 162.
xiv, 430 pages : tables ; 25 cm
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■H«JJ ., ". MmMQwaqggji 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 190? REPORT OF THE ROYAL COMMISSION ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSION .1902 1 PRINTED BY ORDER OF PARLIAMENT OTTAWA PRINTED BY S. E. DAWSON, PRINTER TO THE KINO'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY 1902 [No. 54—1902.] 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 . A. 1902 PREFACE. The Commissioners desired to examine separately the questions of Chinese and Japanese immigration, and this method was pursued as far as practicable. In many industries, however, both Chinese and Japanese are employed, and in most cases the witnesses treated them alike : so that while Part I has relation chiefly to Chinese immigration, much that is said there applies with equal force to the Japanese in Part II. There are certain questions, however, and certain industries peculiarly affected by Japanese labour that require special treatment. This applies especially to the fisheries and to the lumber industry. 54-a| 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 PAET I CHINESE IMMIGRATION PART I.—CONTENTS. Letter Transmitting Report to the Secretary op State. page xi. The Commissions Chapter I.—Introductory :— Representations by British Columbia—Action taken by the Provincial Governments—Acts passed by the Legislative Assembly—Information obtained at Washington—Dates and places of sittings of the Commission in British Columbia,—Number of witnesses examined at each place—Plan of investigation adopted—Visit to the Pacific Coast States—Reference to the Commission of 1884 Chapter II.—The Chinese Immigrant :— Early immigration—Rate of increase—Number now in Canada—Where they come from—Cost of living and wages of skilled and unskilled labour in China—Chinese characteristics—Statements of Chinese boards of trade in British Columbia as to numbers and occupations of Chinese in the province Ohapter III.—Their Unsanitary Condition :— Evidence of the sanitary inspectors of Victoria and Vancouver—A visit to \ Chinatown.'—Dwellings of Chinese labourers—Are they a menace to health ?—Evidence of health officers and medical men— Summary Chapter IV.—Crime Statistics :— Convictions in Victoria and Vancouver—Returns favourable to Chinese —Offences largely breaches of city by-laws—Statement of the warden of the British Columbia Penitentiary—Difficulty of securing convictions—Evidence of Police Magistrate Hall of Victoria as to the value of Chinese evidence—The case of Regina vs. Gin -Form of trial by Chinese boards of trade v xi. Wing- 14 20 A VI TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Chapter V.—The Moral and Religious Aspbct of the Case :— page Unsatisfactory result of missionary work among the Chinese in British Columbia—Different standards of morality among Chinese and whites—Evidence of clergymen and missionaries—Statement of Tom Chue Thorn, Chinese missionary at New Westminster-—Chinese Girls' Home in Victoria—Statement of the matron—Evidence of Lee Mon Kow, Chinese interpreter at customs house, Victoria- Summary 22 Chapter VI.—Proportion of Taxes Paid by Chinese :— Evidence of the tax collectors of the coast cities—Returns made by Provincial Government and municipal officials in other parts~t)f the province—Summary .^/f\ '$ill Chapter VII.—Land Clearing and Agriculture :— Cost of clearing heavily timbered land—Chinese part in this work— Evidence of land owners, farmers, secretaries of farmers' associations, and others—American opinion—Summary 41 44 Chapter VIII.—Market Gardening :— Extent to which Chinese have monopolized this industry- employed in and around the coast cities—Statement of the principal employing market gardener -Numbers Lee Dye, in British Columbia- Evidence of Chinese and white market gardeners—Medical testimony as to Chinese methods of cultivation—American opinion— Summary Chapter IX.—Coal Mining Industry :— Output for the year 1900—Growth of the industry—Vancouver Island coal mines divided into two groups, the ' New Vancouver' and the 'Dunsmuir'—Number of Chinese employed—Evidence of the general manager of the \ Dunsmuir ' mines, and of the superintendent of the ' New Vancouver' mines—Miners' views—Communication re cost of oil as fuel—Summary-. • 65 71 Chapter X.—Placer Mining Production up to and including the year 1900—Evidence of the government agent at Atlin—No Chinese employed there:—Evidence Major Dupont, Senator Reid and others as to employment of Chinese in Cariboo—Summary Chapter XI.—Lode Mining :— 90 Increase since 1887—Chinese not employed—Evidence of mine managers and others interested—Summary Chapter XII.—The Lumber Industry (Export Trade) :— Output for 1900—Statement of shipments of lumber from British Columbia and Puget Sound—Very few Chinese employed in export mills—Evidence of managers of principal export mills— Opinion of an employee—American evidence—Summary 9a 97 TABLE OF CONTENTS SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Chapter XIII.—The Lumber Industry (Local and Eastern Trade) :— List of the principal mills engaged in this branch—Number of employees—Evidence of leading mill owners and managers—Statement re rates of wages in the lumber mills of Washington—Summary. . Chapter XIV.—Shingle Business :— List of principal shingle mills—Number of employees—Evidence of owners, managers and others—Summary Chapter XV.—The Canning Industry :— Total pack of the Pacific coast for 1901—Importance of this industry in British Columbia,—Number of licenses issued-—Number engaged and value of plant—Other statistics—Chinese largely engaged— The contract system explained—Evidence of cahners, fishermen and others—American evidence—-Summary .j.yy:. . . . ^^ev"%" • a *j ~-^ Chapter XVI.—Domestic Servants :— Difficulty of obtaining white servants—Extent to which Chinese are employed—Evidence—Summary . Chapter XVII.—The Laundry Business:— Chinese largely control this business—Numbers engaged in the principal cities—Evidence of proprietors of steam laundries—Resolution of Nelson Laundry Workers' Union—Other witnesses—Summary. .. Chapter XVIII.—Part I. Merchant Tailors :— Where Chinese'encroach upon skilled occupations—Whites driven out of the business in Victoria—Evidence vu page 119 127 134 167 175 177 Part II. Wholesale Manufacture of Clothing : Chinese displacing whites in some branches—Evidence—Summary.... Chapter XIX.—Other Trades and Callings :— (1) The manufacture of boots and shoes—(2) Cigarmaking—(3) Brickmaking—(4) Lime burning—(5) Fruit canning—(6) Sugar refining—(7) Cordwood cutting—(8) Railways—(9) The Canadian Pacific Steamship Company—(10) Railway construction—(11) Electric railways—(12) Freighting Chapter XX.—I. Unskilled Labour:— Avenues of unskilled labour filled by Chinese—Evidence II. The Youth of the Country : Serious situation created by lack of employment for boys and girls— Evidence—Summary Chapter XXI.—Merchants and Traders :— Statements of Chinese boards of trade of Victoria, Nanaimo, Vancouver and New Westminster—Evidence of white merchants—Summary. 181 185 204 210 i 211 viii TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Chapter XXII.—Is Further Restriction or Exclusion Desired?— page Consensus of opinion of witnesses—Letter from Rev. Dr. Thompson of Montreal—Strength of militia in British Columbia—Chinese opinion—Summary : 217 •Chapter XXIII. —Trade With China :— Statistics—Evidence of business men—Experience of the United States —:Summary 240 Chapter XXIV.—Anti-Chinese Legislation Elsewhere :— In the United States—Extract from the report of the Philippine Commission—In Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania—Correspondence with the Home Government—Summary 245 Chapter XXV.—Effect of Exclusion in the United States :— Chinese population of the Western States—Evidence of prominent citizens of Seattle, Fairhaven, Portland and San Francisco— Summary 256 Chapter XXVL—Presume 263 The Census—A comparison 271 Table of Chinese immigration from 1885 to 1901 271 Table of Chinese in transitu from 1887 to 1901 272 « Chapter XXVII.—Conclusion 272 Appendix :—, Addresses of Counsel—Mr. C. Wilson, K.C., for the Province of British Columbia, and Mr. A. D. Taylor, for the Chinese Board of Trade. 281 Extracts from the report of the Philippine Commission 305 Hon. Oliver P. Morton's minority report, United States Commission, 1876 310 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 PABT II JAPANESE IMMIGRATION PART II.—CONTENTS. Chapter I.—Japanese Immigration :— Statement of number of Japanese landed at Victoria and Vancouver— Immigration to Puget Sound—Japanese in the United States— Cause of large influx—How this immigration is promoted—Wages paid in Japan—The immigrant at home—Upon arrival in British Columbia .' Chapter II.—Part I.—The Fisheries :— Number of licenses issued to whites and Japanese—Are there too many fishermen on the Fraser River 1—Opinions of canners, fishermen, Indians and officials—Naturalization frauds—Export of fish to Japan—Summary . . . ® Part II.—Boat Building :— Japanese gaining control of this industry—Evidence of white boat- builders—Summary Chapter III.—The Lumber Industry :— Part I.—Sawmills :— Table showing proportion of whites, Chinese and Japanese employed in principal mills—Evidence of mill owners—Statements of American mill owners—Comparison of wages on the Canadian and American side—Summary Part II.—Shingle-bolts, Mining, Timber and Cordwood:— Japanese crowding out whites and Chinese—Evidence—Injurious effect upon settlers—Summary Chapter IV.—Other Occupations :— (1) The mining industry—(2) Railways—(3) Sealing—(4) Domestic servants—(5) Farming, land clearing and market gardening— (6) Tailors, &c ix A. 1902 PAGE 32 11 340 357 360 371 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 1902 The Honourable Richard W. Scott, Secretary of State, Ottawa. Toronto, February 18, 1901 I have the honour to transmit herewith the Report of the Commission appointed to inquire -into the question of Chinese and Japanese Immigration, in so far as it relates to the immigration of Chinese. Every interest and industry has been considered, and with each chapter is quoted so much of the evidence relating thereto as was considered necessary to convey the purport of the whole. In the head note and summary of each chapter will be found a concise statement of the facts and findings relating to each subject matter dealt with. The evidence of course had to be all reviewed before reaching a decision in each case, and it was thought conducive to a full exposition of each subject matter, that a condensed statement of the evidence upon which the findings.were based should be quoted. In the last chapters will be found a resume of the whole and the conclusion at which the Commissioners have arrived. The head note and summary of each chapter and the concluding chapter fully set forth the views of the Commissioners. In quoting the evidence especial care was taken to give the views of all parties who employ Chinese labour, or whose interests might possibly be affected by its exclusion. I am pleased to say that the Commissioners were unanimous in the conclusion arrived at, as to the necessity of excluding further immigration of Chinese labourers. That portion of the report relating to Japanese Immigration, is well advanced, and will be completed at an early date. R. C. CLUTE, Chairman. COMMISSIONS. N. E. Taschereau, Deputy Governor General, Canada. Victoria, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, Defender of the Faith, &c, <fec, &c. To all to whom these presents shall come, or whom the same may in anywise concern. Greeting : Whereas it appears from a report from Our Secretary of State that representations and statements have been made by the legislature *and people of the province of British Columbia on the subject of Chinese and Japanese immigration into that province, as more fully set out in the Order of His Excellency the Governor General in Council, bearing date the twenty-first day of September, in the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred, a copy of which is hereunto annexed ; And whereas We deem it expedient that inquiry under oath should be made with respect to the said statements and representations referred to in the said Order in Council hereunto annexed. Now know ye that We, by and with the advice of Our Privy Council for Canada, do by these presents nominate, constitute and appoint Roger Conger Clute, of the city of Toronto, in the province of Ontario, one of our counsel learned in the law for the province of Ontario, Ralph Smith, of the city of Vancouver, in the province of British Columbia, Esquire, and Daniel James Munn, of the city of New Westminster, in said xi xn REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 province of British Columbia, Esquire, to be Our Commissioners for the purpose of investigating the said statements and representations so made as indicated in the Order of Our Governor.General in Council hereunto annexed. And We do hereby, under the authority of the Revised Statutes of Canada, chapter 114, intituled : "An Act respecting Inquiries Concerning Public Matters," confer upon you, Our said Commissioners, the power of summoning before you any witnesses and of requiring them to give e^iidence on oath, orally or in writing or on solemn affirmation, if they are persons entitled to affim in civil matters, and to produce such documents and things as you, Our said Commissioners, shall deem requisite to the full investigation of the matters into which you are hereby appointed to examine, inquire into and investigate. To have, hold, exercise and enjoy the said office, place and trust unto you, the said Roger Conger Clute, you the said Ralph Smith and you the said Daniel James Munn, together with the rights, powers, privileges and emoluments unto the said office, place and trust of right and by law appertaining during pleasure. And We do hereby require and direct you to report to Our Secretary of State the result of your investigation, together with the evidence taken before you and any opinion you may see fit to express thereon. In testimony whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent and the Great Seal of Canada to be hereunto affixed. Witness, the Honourable Henri Elzear Taschereau, Deputy of Our Right Trusty and Right Well-beloved Cousin The Right Honourable Sir Gilbert John Elliot, Earl of Minto and Viscount Melgund of Melgund, County of Forfar, in the Peerage of the United Kingdom, Baron Minto of Minto, County of Roxburgh, in the Peerage of Great Britain, Baronet of Nova Scotia, Knight Grand Cross of Our Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, &c, <fec, Governor General of Canada. At Our Government House, in our City of Ottawa, this Twenty-first day of September, in the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred, and in the sixty-fourth year of Our Reign. By Command. JOSEPH POPE, Under Secretary of State. m' a Extract from a report of the Committee of the Honourable the Privy Council, approved by His Excellency on September "21, 1900. On a memorandum dated September 3, 1900, from the Secretary of State, submitting that he has had under consideration the many representations made by the legislature and people of British Columbia on the subject of Chinese and Japanese immigration into that province to some of which he desires to call particular attention. The .minister observes that at a recent sitting of the Legislative Assembly of the province, a resolution was adopted declaring that the Chinese Immigration Act passed at the last session of the parliament of Canada, increasing the capitation tax from $50 to $100 is ineffective and inadequate to prevent Chinese immigration into Canada, and expressing the opinion that the only effective mode of dealing with the question of restricting Mongolian immigration into Canada would be by either increasing the amount of per capita tax to the sum of $500, or by the passing of an Act based on the lines of the Natal Act, known as the 'Immigration Restriction Act of 1897.' That in the month of May last (1900) two numerously signed petitions from the residents of British Columbia, to His Excellency the Governor General in Council, were received, representing that between January 1 and April 1 of the present year (1900) 4,669 Japanese landed in Victoria and Vancouver, and that during the same period 1,325 Chinese laiideci in Victoria, making a total of nearly 6,000 within the short space of four months, and alleging that the result is j that the province is ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION rill SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 flooded with an undesirable class of people non-assimilative and most detrimental to the wage-earning classes of the people of the province, and that this extensive immigration cf orientals is also a menace to the health of the community.' That the petitioners assert that they are not unmindful of Imperial interests, and while expressing feelings of the greatest loyalty to those interests, they respectfully call attention to what they term a serious inroad upon the welfare of the people of the province and they ask that ah Act may be passed inhibiting the immigration of the above mentioned classes of people to Canada. That it has also been alleged in other communications on the subject that there was probability of a great disturbance to the economic conditions existing in the province and of grave injury being caused to the working classes by the large influx of labourers from China and Japan, as the standards of living of the masses of the people in those countries differ so widely from the standards prevailing in the province, thus enabling them to work for a much less wage. That it is also urged that it is in the interest of the Empire that the Pacific Province of the Dominion should be occupied by a large and thoroughly British population rather than by One in which the number of aliens would form a large proportion. The Minister also desires to call attention to the many. acts passed by the Legislative Assembly of the Province declaring that Chinese or Japanese persons shall not be allowed to find employment on works, the construction of which has been authorized or made possible of accomplishment by certain privileges or franchises granted by the Legislature, which Acts have been disallowed by reason of the discrimination including Japanese. The Minister submits that owing to these representations made by the Legislature and people of British Columbia, the Right Honourable the Premier during the last session of the Parliament of Canada, when introducing the Bill authorizing the increase in the capitation tax on Chinese coming iftto the Dominion from $50 to $100, announced that the government had come, to the conclusion that it would be wise at the present time to follow the course adopted by the Government of Canada in the year 1884, and have the complaints and statements referred to, investigated, the inquiry to include the question as to whether the Japanese should be treated as the Chinese were, and whether or not they present the same objectionable characteristics as were alleged against the Chinese and that a royal commission would be appointed to investigate and examine into the whole question, making a full report so that the views of the people of British Columbia might be placed before the Imperial authorities. The Minister therefore recommends that a thorough and full investigation be made, under a Royal Commission, into the foregoing statements and representations, and that Roger C. Clute, of Toronto, Ralph Smith, of Vancouver, and Daniel J. Munn, of New Westminster, be appointed Commissioners for the purpose of such investigation, and that pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 114, B,evised Statutes of Canada, entitled " An act respecting inquiries concerning public matters," they as such Commissioners be given the full power of summoning witnesses and requiring them to give evidence on oath or on solemn affirmation, and to produce such documents and papers as they may deem requisite. The Minister further recommends that reasonable advance be made to the Commissioners to coyer living and travelling expenses, that F. J. Dean, of Kamloops, be appointed secretary to the Commission, and that for the purpose of taking such evidence they be authorized to employ a stenographer to take down the evidence, whose remuneration shall be fixed by the Commissioners. The committee submit the foregoing for Your Excellency's approval. JOHN J McGEE, Clerk of the Privy Council ioA K^C XIV REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION Minto. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 CANADA. k Victoria, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, Defender of the Faith, &c, &c, &c. |i*fe To all to whom these presents shall come, or whom the same may in anywise concern. Greeting : Whereas it appears from a report from Our Secretary of State that representations and statements have been made by the legislature and people of the Province of British Columbia on the subject of Chinese and Japanese immigration into that province, as more fully set out in the Order of His Excellency the Governor General in Council bearing date the twenty-first day of September, in the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred, a copy of which is hereunto annexed; And whereas We deem it expedient that inquiry under oath should be made with respect to the said statements -^d representations.*referred to in the said Order in Council hereunto annexed; And whereas for the purpose of such inquiry, We duly appointed by Letters Patent under the Great Seal dated September 21, A.D., 1900, Roger Conger Clute, Ralph Smith and Daniel James Munn, to be our Commissioners, and the said Ralph Smith has since resigned his said office as such Commissoner, and it is expedient to appoint another Commissioner in his place; Now know ye that We, by and with the advice of Our Privy Council for Canada, do by these presents nominate, constitute and appoint Christopher Foley, of Rossland, in the Province of British Columbia, Esquire, to be One of Our Commissioners for the purpose of investigating the said statements and representations so made, as indicated in the Order of Our Governor General in Council hereunto annexed, in the room, place and stead of Ralph Smith, Esquire, who hath resigned the said office; And We do hereby, under the authority of The Revised Statutes of Canada, chapter 114, intituled 'An Act respecting Inquiries concerning Public Matters,' confer upon you, Our said Commissioner, the power of summoning before you any witnesses, and of requiring them to give' evidence on oath, orally or in writing, or on solemn affirmation, if they are persons entitled to affirm in civil matters, and to produce such documents and things as you, Our said Commissioner, shall deem requisite to the full investigation of the matters into which you are hereby appointed to examine, inquire into and investigate. To have, hold exercise and enjoy the said office, place and trust unto you the said Christopher Foley, together with the rights, powers, privileges and emoluments unto the said office, place and trust of right and by law appertaining during pleasure; And We do hereby require and direct you to report to" Our Secretary of State the result of your investigation, together with the evidence taken before you and any opinion you may see fit to express thereon. In testimony whereof, We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent and the Great Seal of Canada to be hereunto affixed : Witness ; Our Right Trusty and Well-beloved Cousin The Right Honourable Sir Gilbert John Elliot, Earl of Minto and Viscount Melgund of Melgund, County of Forfar, in the Peerage of the United Kingdom >; Baron Minto of Minto, County of Roxburgh, in the Peerage of Great Britain ; Baron of Nova Scotia; Knight Grand Cross of Our Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, &c, &c, Governor General of Canada. At Our Government House, in the Cit^ of Ottawa, this Eighth day of January, in . the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred and one, and in the Sixty- fourth year of Our R.eign. By Command. JOSEPH POPE, Under-Secretary of State. 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 1902 PAET I. CHINESE IMMIGRATION 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 » A. 1902 REPORT p*] ' e OF THE COMMISSIONERS APPOINTED TO INQUIRE INTO THE SUBJECT OF CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION INTO THE PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA. To the Honourable Richard W. Scott, Secretary of State, Ottawa. We, the undersigned, having been duly appointed by a Royal Commission dated the twenty-first day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred, and by a further Royal Commission dated the eighth day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and one (appointing the undersigned Christopher Foley as commissioner in the place and stead of Ralph Smith, resigned) to inquire into the subject of Chinese and Japanese immigration, have the honour to report as follows :— CHAPTER I.—INTRODUCTORY. REPRESENTATIONS BY BRITISH COLUMBIA. Your commissioners are directed to investigate the statements and representations indicated in the Order of Council annexed to the Commission. It will be therefore necessary to shortly inquire precisely what representations and statements the people and Legislature of British Columbia have made on the subject of Chinese and Japanese inimigration into that province. In 1891 over 70 petitions were presented to the Dominion Parliament, representing nearly every trade and calling in British Columbia and from nearly every labour organization from Vancouver to Halifax, declaring that in the opinion of the petitioners ' the importation into Canada of Chinese labour is not in the best interests of the country and should be prohibited, and praying for such legislation as will have the effect of totally prohibiting the importation of Chinese labour into the Dominion.' In 1892 a still larger number of petitions were presented, stating that the Chinese Immigration Act had been very beneficial, but not sufficiently restrictive, and declaring 54—1 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 that ' it would be in the interests of the people of Canada if Chinese immigration be prohibited by law, but if that cannot at present be accomplished, that the entrance duties on persons of Chinese origin entering Canada should be increased from $50 to $500 per head.' Petitions of like purport have since been presented from time to time to parliament with increased urgency. During the session of the Dominion Parliament of 1897 a petition signed by 1,934 electors of Vancouver District, and another signed by 600 citizens of Nanaimo, and another signed by 2,700 residents of British Columbia, and other petitions numerously signed from Port Haney and from the municipal council of the district of Burnaby, the municipal council of the city of Kaslo and the citizens of Vernon, and from other places, were presented, declaring that the tax of $50 has proven wholly inadequate to effect the purpose for which said tax was imposed; that the large influx of Chinese into Canada is a serious menace to the prosperity and general welfare of this country and British Columbia in particular, for the following amongst other reasons : ' that these Chinese are non-assimilative and have no intention of settled citizenship, are in moral, social and sanitary status below the most inferior standard of Western life, and being usually single (the most of them being imported as coolies by labour-contracting organizations) accept less than the lowest living wage of white labour, yet expend but little of their scanty earnings in the land of their temporary adoption.' The petition further recites that the Government of the United States, recognizing the great harm wrought to the citizens of the United States by competition of cheap Chinese labour, enacted legislation to totally prohibit the immigration of Chinese labourers in the interests and for the welfare of the said United States of America, and that in other parts of the British Empire the same evil has existed, and that the imposition of a tax of $500 by the Australian colonies has been effectual in checking such Chinese immigration, and that the petitioners believe that the imposition of a per capita tax of $500 would be efficacious in restricting the said immigration of Chinese, and the petitioners pray parliament to grant relief for the existing evils. Subsequent petitions of, like purport were presented to parliament, and in the month of May, 1900, two numerously signed petitions from the residents of British Columbia to His Excellency the Governor General in Council were presented, representing that between the first day of January and the last day of April, 4,669 Japanese landed in Victoria and Vancouver, and that during the same period 1,325 Chinese landed in Victoria, making a total of nearly 6,000 within the short space of four months, and alleging that the result is ' that the province is flooded with an undesirable class of people, non-assimilative and most detrimental to the wage-earning people of the province, and that this extensive class of Chinese labourers is also a menace to the health of the community.' The petitioners assert that they are not unmindful of Imperial interests, and while expressing feelings of the greatest loyalty to those interests, they respectfully call attention to what they call a serious inroad to the people of that province, and they ask that an Act may be passed prohibiting the immigration of the above-mentioned people to Canada. That it has also been alleged in other communications on the subject that there was a probability of great disturbance to the economic conditions existing in the province and of grave injury being caused to the working class by the large influx of labourers from China and Japan, as the standard of living of the masses of the people in those countries differs so widely from the standard prevailing in the province, thus enabling them to work for a much less wage. That it is also urged that it is in the interest of the Empire that the Pacific province of the Dominion should be occupied by a large and thoroughly British population rather than by one in which the number of aliens would form a larger proportion. ACTION OF BRITISH COLUMBIA GOVERNMENT. Since 1891 the Government of British Columbia have from time to time urged that the ' Chinese Immigration Act of Canada ' be made more restrictive by increasing the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 3 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 capitation tax and decreasing the number each vessel is permitted to carry, or that 'their importation be prohibited.' These representations were made from year to year with increasing force, both by the Executive Council of the province and by resolution of the Legislative Assembly. In a report of the Committee of the Honourable the Executive Council of March 2, 1899, it is pointed out that 'during the fiscal year ending June 30,1898, as shown by the customs returns, no less a number, than 2,263 Chinese immigrants paid the tax and entered Canada through the ports of this province alone, the average for the past three years being over 2,100 per annum, and declaring that this enormous influx, together with the present Chinese population of the province, has already driven workingmen of British race and blood out of many of the fields of labour, and threatens before long, if not stopped, to leave very little occupation remaining for the white labourer, and recommends that the capitation tax should be increased to at least $500.' On August 14, 1900, the Lieutenant Governor of British Columbia approved of a minute to the Privy Council submitting certain resolutions of the Legislative Assembly, declaring ' that in the opinion of this House the said Act is ineffective and inadequate to prevent Chinese immigration into Canada, and respectfully urging upon the Dominion Government that the effective mode of dealing with the question of restriction of Mongolian immigration into Canada would be by either increasing the amount of the per capita tax to the sum of $500, or by the passing of an Act based on the lines of the Natal Act known as the 'Immigration Restriction Act, 1897.' Attention is also called to the many Acts passed by the Legislative Assembly of the province declaring that Chinese or Japanese persons shall not be allowed to find employment on works, the construction of which has been authorized or made possible of accomplishment by certain privileges and franchises granted by the legislature, which Acts have been disallowed by reason of the discrimination, including Japanese. These are the statements and representations constituting the subject of inquiry by your commissioners. VISIT TO WASHINGTON. Desiring to obtain the fullest information upon which had been based the legislation and treaty rights regulating the question of Chinese immigration and exclusion from the United States, Mr. Clute, accompanied by Mr. Simpson, the stenographer of the Commission, left Toronto on October 11 for Washington, where they met Mr. Munn, and by the courtesy of various officials of the United States Government obtained copies of all state papers constituting the history of the Chinese immigration question in the United States, including the evidence taken and the reports made under the various commissions, and the subsequent negotiations, treaties and Acts of Congress affecting the same, and the report of the commissioner sent to Japan to inquire into Japanese immigration. VISIT TO BRITISH COLUMBIA. Owing to the resignation of Commissioner Smith your commissioners were not able to proceed at that time further with the work of the Commission. Mr. Christopher Foley having been appointed in the place of Mr. Ralph Smith, your commissioners met at Vancouver on March 6, 1901, where interviews, were held with various persons representing the different interests affected, and the nature of the evidence to be brought before the Commission was fully considered. Your commissioners then proceeded to Victoria where they arrived on March 9. Due notice was given in the newspapers of the sittings of the Commission, and an invitation was extended to all who desired to give evidence to do so. The sittings of the Commission at Victoria and elsewhere were held in the court-house by the courtesy of the Honourable Mr. Eberts, Attorney General for the province, and the public and the press were admitted. 54—14 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Your commissioners were attended from the first by counsel: Mr. Charles Wilson, K.C., representing the Province of British Columbia ; Mr. J. M. Bradburn representing the Chinese, and Mr. R. Cassidy, K.C., representing the Japanese. Counsel representing the different interests were consulted from time to time with respect to the witnesses to be summoned, and were requested to suggest the names of any witnesses whom they might think capable of giving important evidence from their standpoint, and in every instance the attendance,of witnesses so suggested was procured. In order to solicit the fullest information and to indicate to witnesses the line of inquiry, the following announcement was made by publication in the newspapers and free distribution :— The commissioners appointed to inquire into Chinese and Japanese immigration desire information upon the following points :— It will be necessary to treat the various questions affecting Chinese and Japanese immigration separately. The object of the commissioners in suggesting the following subjects, is to enable you to give them consideration before giving evidence touching such of them as may be within your knowledge. The commissioners will greatly appreciate any information you may be able to give bearing upon the subject. 1. The number of Chinese and Japanese in British Columbia. 2. What has been the annual immigration since 18841 3. From what class in China and Japan are they principally drawn, and what was their condition before coming here ? 4. What is their character for honesty, obedience, diligence, thrift, sobriety and morality, and keeping of contracts ? 5. How many are engaged in :— (a.) The fisheries. (b.) The mines. (c.) The lumber business. (d.) Manufactures. (e.) Farming and market gardening. (f.) Domestic service. (g.) Other callings. 6. What is the difference in wages paid to Chinese and Japanese, and to the wages of white men in the same trade or calling ? 7. Has any industry been called into existence by reason of their presence; and, if so, what industry, and how ? 8. Is there any industry dependent upon their labour for its continuance ; and, if what industry, and why 1 9. How do thev come, and under what terms ? 10. What proportion bring their wives, or marry here, or attend school or churches become Christians'? 11. What is their standard of living, compared with that of the white population, clothing, food, rent, &c. ? 12. What is their moral and physical condition, their habits of cleanliness, and attention to sanitary regulations ? 13. Do they live in different parts of the city or in aggregations ? 14. What effect has their residence in any place on the price of property in that locality ? 15. What proportion live in separate houses and have families ? 16. How,many Chinese and Japanese women are there in this province \ and for what purpose and under what terms were they brought here 1 17. Are men and women brought here under servile or other contracts ? What is their form and effect ? 18. How many Chinese companies or other associations are there; what is their object ? How do they affect immigration 1 Have the ' six companies' branches in British Columbia 1 so, or ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 19. Do Chinese or Japanese immigrants take any interest in our laws and institutions ? What proportion build up homes and become permanent citizens or residents ? 20. Do they learn our language, customs, habits of living, and show signs that they will eventually assimilate and become an integral part of our race and nation, as Europeans do ? 21. How have workmen been affected by Chinese and Japanese immigrants respectively ? 22. How has Chinese and Japanese immigration affected white immigration ? 23. What proportion of Chinese and Japanese return to their own country, and what proportion of their earnings do they take with them ? Do they enrich or impoverish this country? 24. Are the Chinese and Japanese ' a menace to health ?' And, if so, in what way ? 25. Has trade and commerce between Canada and China and Japan been affected by Chinese and Japanese immigration ? And how would restrictive or prohibitive measures affect it ? 26. The effect of unlimited Chinese and Japanese immigration upon the country ? 27. As to the sufficiency of white labour to supply the demands of the country ? 28. The criminal class amongst Chinese and Japanese as compared with the white population; the nature of the offences ; the number of convictions, &c. ? 29. The relative amount of taxes paid compared with their earning power ? 30. With whom do the Chinese and Japanese trade ; and to what extent does the country benefit thereby ? What proportion of their earnings do they send or take out of this conntry ? 31. What proportion speak English and read and write English ? 32. Do you make any distinction between Chinese and .Japanese immigrants? 33. Do you favour restriction or prohibition of this class of immigrants ? 34. How do you propose to prohibit with the existing treaties in force ? AT VICTORIA. The first sitting for the reception of evidence was held on Wednesday, March 13, at 10 a.m. The secretary read the commissions, and the chairman briefly reviewed the circumstances leading up to the appointment of the Commission. He referred to the Commission of 1884 and the Act of 1885 and the amendments thereto, the last of which increased the tax from $50 to $100. Repeated requests for an increase in the tax had been made both by petition from the Legislature of British Columbia, and by residents and labour unions in the province. These requests had been made since 1890, and finally in 1900 an Act was passed increasing the tax from $50 to $100 ; at the same time the Premier declared the intention of the Government to be to appoint a commission of inquiry into all matters affecting the subject of Oriental immigration. This, then, was the origin of the Commission, which was now convened, and the chairman stated that it was the desire of the government and of the commissioners that the fullest and freest inquiry should be made. The Commission expected the cordial assistance, not only of the provincial government, which had been in a manner responsible for the institution of the inquiry, but of all parties who could in any way facilitate them in their labours. It was the intention to treat the evidence as to the Chinese and Japanese separately, so as to give an opportunity, not only to present facts regarding each, but to give each nationality a separate hearing. To assist in the inquiry the Commission had prepared a number of questions indicating the scope of the inquiry, which would not, however, be thereby limited. After reading the above announcement the chairman said anyone, whether an individual or representing particular interests, would be given the utmost liberty to submit evidence. Further, it was the desire of the commissioners to meet the convenience of those desiring to attend and give evidence, so that they would hold night sessions if necessary for those who were unable to attend in the daytime. He emphasized the necessity of eHminating hearsay evidence and said it was not opinions so much that REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION § 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the commissioners desired to hear, but facts, on which the report of the Commission could be based. The commissioners decided to sit from 10 to 12:30 and from 2:30 to 5:30, but these hours were almost invariably extended to 1 o'clock and 6 o'clock respectively. At Victoria 114 witnesses were examined. The Legislature being in session, many prominent men were in attendance from various parts of the province and occasion was taken to obtain their evidence. More witnesses were offered than whose evidence could possibly be taken without unduly lengthening the sittings, and selection was made after consulting counsel representing the different interests. Owing to the efficient services rendered by the secretary, the commissioners were not delayed at any time for lack of witnesses. The evidence having been completed at Victoria on the evening of the 9 th, your commissioners left for Nanaimo the following morning, where were examined 32 witnesses, and concluded there on Tuesday, April 16. Here the Commission were attended by the same counsel, with the addition of Mr. James H. Simpson, representing the Chinese. We left Nanaimo the next morning, arriving at Union in the afternoon and opened the Commission at 4:45 o'clock, attended by counsel as before. Examined 14 witnesses and left for Vancouver Friday the 19th. Arrived at Vancouver Saturday, April 20, attended by the following counsel: Mr. Charles Wilson, K.C., for the Province; Mr. J. G. Macdonell, representing the trades unions; Mr. R. Cassidy, K.C., representing the Japanese, and Mr. A. D. Taylor, representing the Chinese Board of Trade. At Vancouver 77 witnesses were examined. We left Vancouver on May 13 for New Westminster, and were attended by counsel representing the province, the Chinese and Japanese, as before. Here 37 witnesses were examined. On Monday, May 20, we visited some of the canneries on the Fraser River and ex* amined two witnesses, returning the same evening to New Westminster. We sat for the further taking of evidence at New Westminster until 12 noon of May 21, leaving ing at 2 p.m. for Kamloops. Nineteen witnesses were examined at Kamloops on the 21st, -22nd and 23rd. Leaving Kamloops on the morning of the 24th, we visited Vernon the same day, examined 4 witnesses and arrived at Revelstoke on Saturday the 25th j examined 10 witnesses and left for Rossland on the morning of May 26; examined 11 witnesses at Rossland and left for Nelson on May 29 ; examined 7 witnesses at Nelson and left for Sandon via Kaslo on May 30, where we examined 4 witnesses on the 31st and returned to Kaslo by afternoon train. Examined 5 witnesses at Kaslo and closed the evidence at 10 p.m. of May 31. This concluded the taking of evidence in British Columbia. From Kaslo we proceeded to Seattle on June 1, where we arrived on the 2nd (Sunday), and on the 3rd held interviews with the president and secretary of the Chamber of Commerce; visited three lumber mills and interviewed the managers; and also the secetary of the city labour bureau, and the secretary of the trades and labour council, and left the following morning for Fairhaven, where we arrived Tuesday, June 4. Here and at Whatcom we were engaged all day in visiting canneries and mills and taking the statements of the managers. We left Fairhaven on Wednesday, June 5, and arrived at Vancouver on the same day, and on the following day, by request, heard argument of counsel representing the Chinese, the Japanese, and the Province of British Columbia. Our inquby was continued at Portland and San Franeisco, these two cities being the chief centres of Chinese population on the coast. At San Francisco much valuable information was obtained in regard to the canneries on the Sound and in Alaska, and to what extent Chinese labour was there employed. The mayor of the city, the labour commissioner, and the Chinese immigration commissioner gave very full information bearing upon the different phases of the Chinese question. This concluded the taking of evidence on the coast. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 7 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 THE COMMISSION OF 1884. .A reference may be had to the report of the Commission of 1884 for a more extensive review of such questions as the worship of ancestors, system of education, sale of offices, &c, in China. It has been the aim of the present* Commission to gather all the facts obtainable as to the number of Chinese' and Japanese in the country, the quality of the immigrant, the class to which he belongs, his habits and standard of living in his own country, the object he has in emigrating to this country, his manner of life here, how far, if at all, he is a menace to health, and his social and moral condition as a factor in the well- being of the commonwealth, to what extent he has taken part in and is essential to the development of the great natural resources of the province, the clearing and cultivation of the land, the fisheries, the mines and the lumber industries, and to other trades and callings in which he finds employment, and the nature and extent of such employment; and to consider the question having relation to these facts, and from a national standpoint. It was thought expedient as far as possible to treat the questions of Chinese and Japanese immigration separately. The commissioners will, therefore, deal in the first place with the question of Chinese immigration. CHAPTER II.—THE CHINESE IMMIGRANT. EARLY IMMIGRATION. The first immigration in any considerable numbers of Chinese into British Columbia occurred in the early sixties* at the time of the gold excitement in Cariboo, when many of them engaged in the placer mines in that district, and a iew have continued there ever since. By the census of 1880-81 the total population of Chinese in Canada is given as 4,383, of which 4,350 are credited to British Columbia, 22 to Ontario, 7 to Quebec and 4 to Manitoba. x THEIR INCREASE. During the period from 1881 to 1884 the Canadian Pacific Railway was in course of construction and large numbers of Chinese were brought over by contract to work on the Onderdonk section of the railway. According to a Chinese compilation made in 1884 there were in the province of British Columbia 9,629 Chinese labourers; of these 3,510 were engaged on railway construction. Victoria is credited with 1,767, New Westminster 1,680, and Nanaimo 168. The census of 1891 gives the total number of Chinese in Canada as 9,129 ; of these 8,910 were in British Columbia, 97 in Ontario, Quebec 36, Manitoba 31, New Brunswick 8, Nova Scotia 5, Prince Edward Island 1, and the Territories 41. It will be seen from the above that the large influx of Chinese into British Columbia during the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway was pretty well absorbed ; nearly all apparently remaining in the country, or others coming in to take their place. In 1901 the total number of Chinese in Canada is given by the census as 16,792, distributed as follows :— British Columbia j *14,376 Ontario 712 Quebec 1,044 Manitoba 206 Incomplete. 8 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 New Brunswick .. 0. 59 Nova Scotia 104 Prince Edward Island 4 The Territories 287 Of the above in British Columbia 2,715 reside at Victoria, 2,011 at Vancouver, 604 at Nanaimo, 505 at Union, 738 at New Westminster, 241 at Rossland, and 391 at Nelson. Note.—These figures from the census do not agree with the figures obtained earlier from the Chinese Boards of Trade, and which have been used elsewhere in this report. The relative increase in the population of British Columbia will be seen from the following table :— Whites and Indians. Chinese. Japanese. 1881 49,459 4,350 1891 89,263 8,910 1901 157,815 fl4,376 4,578 WHERE THEY COME FROM.- Nearly all come from the six or eight connties in the province of Kwang-tung in the vicinity of Canton. This province contains an area variously estimated at from eighty to ninety thousand square miles, and a population of over twenty millions. Those who come to Canada are mostly of the coolie class, or farm labourers. The farms are small, usually from a half to ten acres. COST OF LIVING IN CHINA. According to the witness Mr. McLean, who had lived many years in China (and who assisted counsel for the Chinese and was present throughout the investigation, and entirely favourable to them), the houses are described as costing in our money from $5 to $15 ; the whole furniture would nqt exceed $5, and a man supports a family on $2 or $3 a month. ' Lots of these coolies, 40 or 50, live together, and are boarded for so much a month. Rice is the staple diet.' Gordon W. Thomas, superintendent of mines for seven and a-half years, now gardener and rancher, and caretaker of the cemetery, who, though engaged at present in what might be called a humble employment, is a man of large experience and travel, and spoke from personal knowledge of the Chinese, such as come here, in China, and from a personal experience of 20 years in British Columbia, says : As far as my observations go I think they are a very undesirable race to be brought into this country. From my personal knowledge we get the largest majority from the lowest order of coolie labour from China, and I say that because I have been in China myself. I have seen them there and I have seen them here. I say from my personal knowledge that they come from the coolie class. There may be some from the small farmer class. I mean the lowest order of society or people in China from the cities. There is a class of farm labourers also, and those are the people who take hold of that class of work here. They live here just as they live there. Lee Mon Kow, Chinese interpreter for the Dominion Government, and who has resided for 18 years in British Columbia, says : I figure there are about 14,000 or 15,000 Chinese in Canada; in British Columbia about 13,000. There are no Chinese brought out under contract now. There have been no slave girls brought out since 10 years ago when the Home was started (that is the Methodist Home for Chinese and Japanese girls). There were two or three cases of slave girls, but the Chinese don't call it slave. The woman agrees to come out. The man pays her, or perhaps pays her debt, and she sells herself until the debt is paid. f Incomplete, estimated at 16,000. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 9 * SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 WAGES IN CHINA. Bearing upon the question of wages, the following quotation from ' The Real Chinaman ' by Chester Holcombe, for many years interpreter, Secretary of Legation and Acting Minister of the United States at Pekin, will throw light upon this important question. * " The word ' poverty' does not convey at all the same idea in the two countries. In America a man is called poor who has a family to support upon earnings of perhaps of $2 a day. In China such a man would be looked upon as living in the very lap of luxury. Here when the labouring man cannot afford meat twice daily he and those dependent upon him are supposed to be upon the verge of hardship and destitution. Meat is cheaper there than here. A labourer there receiving what he considers good wages cannot afford to eat a pound in a month. Poverty here means a narrow and limited supply of luxury. There it means actual hunger and nakedness, if not starvation within sight. SKILLED LABOURERS. ' Skilled labourers in China earn from 10 to 30 cents in silver each day, the average coming below 20. Unskilled labourers or men who, in the expressive language of the country, sell their strength, earn from 5 to 10 cents each day, the average not rising above 7. This meagre sum in a country where bachelors and old maids are unknown, must furnish the entire support of the man himself and from one' to four or five other persons. I have often hired a special messenger to travel a distance of 30 miles for 8 cents. Boatmen are regularly hired to track a native boat, pulling it against the stream from Tientsin to Tungcho, a distance of 125 miles, for 50 cents and their food one way. They make the return journey on foot, that is, they travel a greater distance than that separating Boston and New York for 50 cents in silver, and one-half of their food. To an immense number of the people failure of work for one day carries with it as an inevitable sequence failure of any sort of food for the same period. From the prices paid for labour, as given above, it is not a difficult matter to estimate the extremely narrow limits within which the daily expenditures of a majority of the four hundred millions of Chinese must be kept. The difficulty lies in discovering how they live at all. THEIR FOOD. ' Their daily food consists of rice steamed, cabbage boiled in an unnecessarily large quantity of water, and for a relish a few bits of raw turnip pickled in a strong brine. When disposed to be very extravagant and reckless of expense they buy a cash worth of dried watermelon seeds and munch them as a dessert. In summer they eat raw cucumbers, skin, prickles and all, raw carrots or turnips, or perhaps a melon, not wasting the rind. In certain parts of the empire wheat, flour, oat or cornmeal take the place of rice. With this variation the description answers with entire accuracy for the food consumption of the great masses of the Chinese people, not for the beggars or the very poor, but for the common classes of industrious workingmen and their families, whether in the great cities, or in the rural districts.' Rev. A. H. Smith, 21 years a missionary of the American Board in China, in * Chinese Characteristics,' says : ' One of the first things which impress the traveller in China is the extremely simple diet of the people. The vast bulk of the population seems to depend upon a few articles, such as rice, beans in various preparations, millet, garden vegetables, and fish. These, with a few other things, form the staple of countless millions, supplemented it may be on the feast days, or other special occasions, with a bit of meat. ' Now that so much attention is given in Western lands to the contrivance of ways in which to furnish nourishing food to the very poor, at a minimum cost, it is not without interest to learn the undoubted fact that, in ordinary years, it is in China quite possible to furnish wholesome food in abundant quantity at a cost for each adult of not more than,two cents a day. ■ M 10 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII 1902 ' In the northern parts of China the horse, the mule, the ox, and the donkey are in universal use, and in large districts the camel is made to do full duty. Doubtless it will appear to some of our readers that economy is carried too far, when we mention that it is the general practice to eat all these animals as soon as they expire, no matter whether the cause of death be an accident, old age, or disease. This is done as a matter of course, and occasions no remark whatever, nor is the habit given up because the animal may chance to have died of some epidemic malady, such as the pleuro-pneumohia in cattle. Such meat is not considered so wholesome as that of animals which have died of other diseases, and this truth is recognized in the lower scale of prices asked for it, but it is all sold, and is all eaten. Certain disturbances of the human organizations into which such diseased meat has entered are well recognized by the people, but it is doubtless considered more economical to eat the meat at the reduced rates, and run the risk of the consequences, which, it should be said, are by no means constant. Dead dogs and cats are subject to the same processes of absorption as dead horses, mules and donkeys. We have been personally cognizant of several cases in which villagers cooked and ate dogs which had been purposely poisoned by strychnine to get rid of them. On one of these occasions some one was thoughtful enough to consult a foreign physician as to the probable results, but as the animal was ' already in the pot,' the survivors could not make up their minds to forego the luxury of a feast, and no harm appeared to come of their indulgence. ' The Chinese constantly carry their economy to the point of depriving themselves- of food of which they are really in need. They see nothing irrational in this, but do it as a matter of course. A good example is given in Dr. B. C. Henry's ' The Cross and the Dragon,' He was carried by three coolies for five hours a distance of twenty-three miles, his bearers then returning to Canton to get the breakfast which was furnished them. Forty-six miles before breakfast, with a heavy load half the way, to save five cents. ' In another case two chair coolies had gone with a chair thirty-five miles, and were returning by boat, having had nothing to eat since 6 a.m., rather than pay three cents for two large bowls of rice. The boat ran aground, and did not reach Canton till 2 p.m., next day. Yet these men, having gone twenty-seven hours without food, carrying a load thirty-five miles, offered to take Dr. Henry fifteen miles more to Canton, and but • for his baggage would have done so.' So important is the question of how these people live in China, what in short it costs to produce a competitor of white labour here, and what he can live upon in this country, that a few quotations from the evidence may not be out of place :— Ewen W. MacLean, born in Japan, lived ten years in China, Chinese interpreter,, says : The Chinese labourers come from eight districts in the province of Kwang-tung,. similar to what we call counties here. It is one of the most thickly-settled provinces, in China, a good agricultural district. The principal product is rice. These counties are all adjacent to each other. There are different dialects in these eight counties. A farm would be from four to six or ten acres. That would supply two or three generations, grandfather and his sons and their sons and their wives and children, in a collection of houses under one control. The oldest male member is in control and the grandmother if the grandfather dies, and this would apply to the father and mother. The house is a one-storey brick structure, usually made of brick out of blueish clay, a durable brick of blueish colour, a little larger than our brick. The roof is brick tiles, and floor, &c, brick or clay, according to their ability to have it. I have never visited any of these eight counties. I don't know what the buildings there are like. They have no heating apparatus, no stoves. Their cooking is done in an outer building in small terra cotta stoves. There is no way of heating the houses. The furniture consists of tables, if a small place one table, if larger, two; stools without back, ancestral tablet and altar. This room would be 10 by 12 feet; sitting room and dining room; two or three sleeping apartments. The rooms are not large, four by eight or five by eight feet. That room would be occupied by farmer and his wife and small children. Board bed made out of planks and matting over it, like the matting you put on floors. The covering is a quilt made out of cotton batting. Generally a little window, a wardrobe like a cupboard ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 11 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 with door, planed, would cost $1 or $2, bed, 12, table, $2 or $3, stools, 30 or 40 cents apiece, washstand, 30 cents. That would fairly describe the house of the farmer class from whom these Chinese are drawn. These prices would represent Mexican money. I can't tell the kind of buildings occupied by those who come here: The common labourer gets $6 a month silver, that is $3 of our money. Wages here is enormously higher than there. You would live there for about $4 a month and live well. He would live with a number of men. Lots of these coolies, 40 or 50, live together, and are boarded for so much a month. Rice is the staple diet. Alfred Dyer, an Englishman by birth, a journalist by profession, says : I have been a resident in China and pretty well all over the Orient and in Japan, from 1881 to" 1895. I know how the people are engaged over there to come here, at Hong Kong, and Singapore. There are certain houses that are known as barracoon houses. They are emigration agencies in a sense. There has been full legislation applicable to them. The keeper of the house is usually a servant of a Chinese Company. He from time to time procures by means of sub-agents sent into villages or cities where labour is congested, to get emigrants. These places are principally Swatow, Amoy, Fou Chow, Macoe, Canton and Hainan. These are the exporting places. These cities are in the south of China, along the Coast and the Delta land, very highly cultivated and very densely populated-. There would be a surplus there naturally under such conditions. The men having been recruited are brought down to these houses and are locked up in them, and money is paid covering the expenses of recruiting, the head tax, if any, plus an advance to his family, which the emigrant invariably demands. It is more than doubtful if the- emigrant really knows where he is going. He gets in the barracoon house and that is the end. All this is fully set forth in blue books on the subject by the Colonial Government. The Hong Kong books will show you, or the Straits Settlements. The English official called the protector of Chinese would give the information. Well, then, it is a matter which country wants them. Wherever they are wanted they go. Take the tobacco plantations in Sumatra. The coolie enters into a written contract for two years that he shall serve at a certain rate of wages, and that the advance of his employer^ which in that case amounts to $40 or $50, shall be deducted. He is^then free, if he is clear of debt, to enter into a fresh agreement. I know of no such contract with those coming into British Columbia, but when I was in Hong Kong, of their coming here in that way, I never heard it disputed. Moreover, the coolie has not got the money. The Emigrant Company get what they can. It is a mere matter of bargain. The man who completes the contract pays the company who has them. Say I want 100 coolies, I go to an agent and ask what he wants, expecting to pay anywhere between $4,000 and $5,000, and he in turn makes his bargain with the owner of the barracoon house- When I get the coolies I deduct his commission out of their earnings. The compulsion is the urgency of his need. It was about 1895 the last I saw of it. It is impossible for the Chinese to pay his" own passage. He could not do it. He comes because of the demand. I don't believe they or their fathers or brothers pay their way, I don't give it credit in the least. The term ' coolie' is used and applied to these various emigrants. It is not necessarily a term of reproach. The question of barracoon houses grew so large that they held a commission on them. To my certain knowledge the Emperor's decree is disregarded. I lived in the Chinese quarters in Swatow and Canton. The people who come here if they can get work home, their earnings would not be over $4 a month, Mexican, that is $2 of our money. The domestic servant is of a class above the average of the Chinese. A carpenter would get from 15 to 30 cents Mexican silver a day, that is from 7^ to 15 cents. Houses are all small, one story, and are built of varying material, mud, cement and oyster shells. Inside either an earthen floor or tiles most usually or boarded. There are always three rooms. First, one general room, one women's room, and a guest room for men. The furniture is the same as in Chinatown. You find adobe and half burnt brick. Such a house would cost $20 or $30 in Mexican silver. This room (the court room, about 30 by 50) would make four houses. The allowance in Canton jail to the jailor per head was 30 cash, equal to 3 cents a day Mexican silver, that is 1^ cents a day for each inmate. He does live upon 3 cents a day Mexican silver. The idea is communal. One sees a whole lot of planta- J 12 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 tions and a village is communal. Living in the house would be the father and the sons and their wives. The custom and laws permit more than one wife when no son is born. The average holdings is from a half acre up, almost wholly rice lands. The rice would not be for their own consumption. They grow a better rice than other places. Their clothing is homespun and home-dyed, very very cheap indeed. A man and his wife and two children could live on four Mexican silver dollars, that is two dollars a month. Gordon W. Thomas, above quoted, says : I have resided in British Columbia twenty years. From my personal knowledge we get the largest majority of Chinese from the lowest order of coolie labour, and I say that because I have been in China myself ; have seen them there and have seen them here. This coolie labour coming from China,—there is a company sending them here. They pay their passage and head money coming into the country; then they have to serve them till this money is refunded. I know by what I was informed in Canton by Chinese merchants. That was in 1874. I only know what took place then; not now. I say from my personal knowledge of them that they come from the coolie class. There may be some from the small farmers' class. I mean the lowest order of society or people in China from the cities. There is a class of farm labourers also and those are the people who take hold of that class of work here. Their home life is just like it is here. They are the filthiest, dirtiest race I ever saw. They have little huts and some look like mud huts. I was never in a house -outside the city. The Rev. Lewis W. Hall, Chinese missionary at Union Mines, says : I can speak the Chinese language. I learned it in Canada. I was in China two years. I know from the district they come from. The coolie class border along Hong Kong. I asked them where they came from. I never was in a farmer's house in China. W X At 2|- cents per day the cost of living for 365 days would be $9.12^. The labourer' income at 5 cents per day for 300 days would be $15 ; from which deduct the cost o" living for 365 days at 2^ cents per day, or $9.12^, and we find that the labourer receives as a result of his yearly earnings $5.88. Is it advisable that the labourer of this country shall be brought into competition with such conditions ? Having seen the class from which the Chinese immigrant is chiefly drawn and his condition in China, let us examine his mode of life and occupations after he arrives in this country. OCCUPATIONS. The following statement was compiled by the Chinese Board of Trade of Victoria .at the request of the commissioners :— No. of Chinese. Merchants 288 Wives of merchants and labourers 92 Male native-born children •. 63 Female native-born children 82 Domestic cooks and servants employed by whites 530 Market gardeners ...... 198 Sewing machine operators and tailors 84 Saw-mill hands 48 Cannery men , , ,.. . .886 Laundrymen (employed in 40 wash houses) 197 Miscellaneous labourers employed 638 do do unemployed 173 Females, no occupation whatever 4 Total 3,263 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Chinese householders of different classes in the city of Victoria, B.C.:— Merchants' families 45 Labourers' families 28 Ministers' families , 1 Interpreters' families 2 Total 76 The above households include : Merchants' wives 61 Labourers' " 28 Ministers' " 1 Interpreters' " 2 Children, native born, males 63 Children, native born, females \ 82 Total 237 ia FEW FEMALES. It thus appears that out of a population of 3,273 there are 3,132 adult males; of these 92 have wives in Canada, and of the 92, 61 are merchants, 1 a minister, 28 labourers and 2 interpreters. The disproportion of males to females is even greater in other places than in Victoria. In Vancouver there are 2,053 males and 27 females, of whom 16 are wives of merchants, 8 of labourers, 1 of a minister, and 2 of interpreters. In many towns and villages there are no Chinese women in a population of several hundred Chinamen. Of a total population of 16,000 (estimated) Chinese in British Columbia, there are 122 Chinese children attending the public schools, distributed as follows :— CHILDREN ATTENDING PUBLIC SCHOOLS. City or District. Victoria Vancouver New Westminster JNanaimo and District New Westminster District. Comox Yale Cariboo Lillooett East Kootenay West Kootenay Total. Chinese population as given by Chinese Chinese Children attending Public School. 29 26 6 5 32 2 9 5 3 3 2 122 The total population of British Columbia, exclusive of Chinese, is 161,272 ; of these 54,500 are adult males, and 30,000 adult females, and 23,615 attend Public School. (Note—These figures are estimated from partial census returns and statements obtained from Chinese.) 14 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 It will be seen from the above that for every adult male there are three inhabitants, .and applying this ratio to the Chinese it should represent a Chinese population of about 48,000, of whom at least 5,500 should be children attending the Public School; or to put it in another way, supposing the places of 3,000 Chinese in Victoria were filled by white adult males, under normal conditions, this ought to represent approximately a population of from ten to twelve thousand, equal to half the present population of Victoria, attending our schools and churches, building up homes, and filling all the conditions of citizenship, and yielding that mutual support to all avocations and trades necessary to the healthy growth of the community. It is rather a startling fact to consider that what ought to be a mixed population of men, women and children of say ten or twelve thousand souls, is represented by some three thousand adult males, with no family life, no homes, no wife or children, taking no part in civic Government, nor interest in our laws and institutions. 'What applies to Victoria, as above indicated, applies with -equal force to the Chinese throughout the Province of British Columbia. The number of Chinese in British Columbia does not convey an accurate idea of the extent to which the white population is being replaced by Chinese. In a population .•exclusively white you would have not only their families as above indicated, but the increase occasioned by their presence to supply their wants. CHAPTER III.—THEIR UNSANITARY CONDITION. The sanitary inspector of Victoria, James Wilson, referring to Chinatown, stated -that last year we burned down over 100 buildings—old wooden buildings. They (the "Chinese) had a great habit of boring holes in the floor and allowing waste water to go through until the ground was saturated with filth. Would find half an inch of filth in the hall and stairway. The beds are clean. There is a continual disregard of sanitary regulations. Robert Marrion, health officer for the city of Vancouver for the last six years, said ihat with the exception of the laundries and domestic servants, the Chinese in the city practically confine themselves to Chinatown. Their* method of living was totally •different to that of white people and they scarcely patronize any but their own stores; Their food consisted of rice, Chinese preserved ducks, eggs, vegetables, &c. The Chinaman can live on a few cents a day. They herded together and cooked in one room. He -described some of the lodging houses :—The Armstrong lodging house was a two storey brick building with 27 rooms upstairs. The rooms were 20 feet long, 13 feet wide, and 10 feet high, and were capable of holding six persons in each, according to the by-law. This was one of the best lodging houses in the city. When visited the other night all the rooms with but two exceptions were occupied by more than six people. The furni- -ture of a room would consist of a table, six bunks, and a stove; no more. As a rule the six occupants would rent that room from a keeper who leased the building from the owner. The amount paid was $3 per month per room, or fifty cents per month for each occupant, provided no more than the proper number were allowed to use it. This was a fair example of the manner of living among the working Chinamen. When one got among the poorer classes one would find conditions worse. The bylaw had been created to prevent the over-crowding which had existed. Most difficulty was experienced in making the Chinese conform to the by-law. They appeared to be made for litigation, and preferred to pay a lawyer $10 than pay $1 tax. On Carrall street there was a house of 19 rooms for 50 persons. With very few exceptions these rooms were filled to the by-law limit. The rents there varied from $2.50 to $3 per month. In 1896 the city had to destroy several rows of Chinese houses owing to their filthy •condition, and for the last three years it has been compelled to burn some of their houses on account of their dirty condition. In 1896 the sanitary conditions of the Chinese quarters were vile, and one could hardly pass through the quarter without holding one's nose. It was very difficult to get Chinese to adopt sanitary methods, even when every convenience was provided. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 15 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CHINATOWN. In Victoria ' Chinatown' proper is located well within the city limits, having -unusually favourable surroundings and occupying about four blocks, in which space are gathered 3,280 people, except in the summer season when many are engaged in the canneries. Procuring the services of a guide, your Commissioners proceeded to investigate by actual observation to what extent the statements made by the press and the different witnesses examined were capable of verification. It soon became evident that our coming had been anticipated; crowds of Orientals rapidly gathered on the streets, closely watching our every movement; partially dried floors, small pools of water standing in the alleyways being suggestive of a very recent general cleaning up. Entering a large mercantile house, in the rear of which is located the largest opium factory in the Dominion, we were met at the door by the proprietor, who received our visit most cordially. A large stock of goods occupied the shelves on each side of the room. Accepting an invitation extended to us by the proprietor, we were admitted into that gentleman's private apartments, consisting of four rooms well furnished after the Oriental style. Here we were introduced to his family, consisting of wife and three ;small children. The surroundings here were sufficiently neat and orderly to satisfy even .the most fastidious taste. CHINESE BOARDING HOUSE OF THE BEST CLASS. Our next visit was to a typical Chinese boarding house, occupied, we were told, by the better class of Chinese labourers, cooks and domestics. Ascending a narrow stairway we enter what had apparently once been a large room, some 18 x 30 feet, with a 10 foot ceiling, but which had an additional floor, occupying a position nearly midway between the floor and the ceiling, thus making two stories out of one. The lower floor was divided off into small rooms reached by a number of narrow hallways, each room containing three low bunks covered with a Chinese mat. In many cases a double tier of these bunks was observed. The covering, in a moderately clean condition, consists of a mat and one or two quilts. The second or upper floor was reached by a short stairway. Here no attempt seems to have been made at a division of space, at least by partitioning, but at intervals a small mat is spread out on the floor with some regularity, by which each individual is enabled to locate his own particular claim. In many cases even a third floor exists, reached usually by a narrow ricketty stairway, into which the occupant crawls upon his hands and knees. Here we found an almost entire absence of light and ventilation, the occupants using a small smoky, open lamp, to discover their respective locations, the fumes from which add to the discomfort of the surroundings. The conditions as to style of dwellings described here conveys some idea of the close economy of these people in small things which enables them to live at but a fraction of the expense necessary for the maintenance of our people of the same class. OF THE COMMON LABOURER. We next visited the houses (if so they may be called) of the common coolie, or what would be the common labouring class with us, whose homes are invariably located in the centre of the block, surrounded by Chinese business houses. These dwellings are of the most primitive character, one storey high, usually containing one small window, and often but one small pane of glass. The material used in construction is the commonest rough lumber, with no attempt at architectural design or taste, simply thrown together as if intended for but temporary occupation, somewhat resembling a railroad or lumberman's camp, and certainly no improvement upon either. Entering a long, dark, narrow alleyway, our guide leading the way by striking a match at intervals, stumbling along over a muddy, uneven walk, the faint glimmer of a 16 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 light appears in the distance, emanating from a small, dirty window, casting a yellow glow upon the smoky and soot-covered walls on the opposite side of the alley, revealing a net-work of small, partly covered passageways leading in all directions through this human beehive. Approaching an entrance, our guide at length located the latch, and unannounced, rudely pushes open the door. We enter a small 10 x 10 foot room without a ceiling. A small table occupies the centre of the room, upon which stands a small, open, badly smoking oil lamp ; at its side an opium bowl containing a thick, dark substance resembling coal tar, which is being stirred at intervals by one of the occupants of the room, with a small iron spoon. Three low bunks surround the room (often a double tier of them), covered with the usual Chinese mat, no other covering being observable \ which, with a stove used in common, a few dishes, a stool or two and some shelving constitute the furniture of the room. The walls are blackened with smoke that is constantly drifting around the room. The walls and floor, which are composed of rough lumber, are absolutely bare, and the starry heavens are observable at intervals through the roof. The bunks are all occupied, some of the occupants apparently sound asleep, others gazing vacantly, others again turn an idiotic gaze upon you, but each hugging his pipe with a smile of security and content. Here again we found an entire absence of any attempt at ventilation so characteristic of those people. The atmosphere of the room is fairly stifling, the smoke from the oil lamp intermingling with that of the opium, constitutes an atmospheric condition well calculated to prevent a prolonged visit. The opium habit among the Chinese seems nearly as common as the tobacco smoking habit with us. The conditions above described are worse in Vancouver, but would be a fair average in most of the cities and towns visited, and will convey a fairly accurate idea of the habits and social conditions of the Chinese in the larger centres of population in British Columbia. What the condition of ' Chinatown' was before the general clearing out and burning of the old buildings as above described must be left to the imagination of the reader. Of home life, except among the merchant class, there is none. ARE THEY A MENACE TO HEALTH ? The doctors unanimously concur in the opinion that they are. Doctor O. Meredith Jones says : The sanitary conditions have improved in the last year. Before that the dwellings were overcrowded and dirty ; the numerous alleyways were undermined with pools of water. I have been asked to see five cases of leprosy. No case of leprosy among the whites. I think it would be a good thing for the country to restrict; I would diminish the number coming in. The manures they use on their vegetables are very dangerous. Dr. Roderick Fraser, Medical Health Officer of Victoria, says : ' Chinatown' is not as clean a part of the city as other parts, although it is much cleaner now than it was some years ago. The whole of ' Chinatown' is governed by by-laws the same as any other part of the city, but it takes more to enforce the sanitary regulations there than in a similar area in any other part of the city. Q. Can you give instances ?—A. I cannot give particular instances. Q. Why are they less sanitary than others \ do they not use water closets ?—A. They use them in a way; but the closets are not attended to as they should be, and they soon get clogged up ; if a closet in a house inhabited by white people gets clogged up, they will have it remedied at once ; but the Chinese are very indifferent; if he can use the yard, or let the closet overflow, he is likely to do so. Q. Have you known instances of their removing the closets ?—A. No ; I have not known them to remove them ; but when they become blocked, I have known them to cut a hole in the corner of the room and use it as a urinal. Q. Do you regard the presence of the Chinese as a menace to the health of the city %—A. I do. I ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 17 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Why ?—A. Well, the Chinese are generally dirtier than the whites. That is a general statement, but it is a correct one. One reason is this, if the Chinese had a case of smallpox in the house his first action would be to conceal it, and he would not take any precautions to prevent the spread of the disease. Q. Do you know about any cases of leprosy ?—A. Not in the city as far as I know : there are four lepers on Darcy Island. Q. Any others ?—A. Fourteen months ago one went from Sydney, and is there now. Q. Is there much danger from leprosy here ?—A. No, I do not think so \ with the precautions taken at Williams Head, the quarantine station, the chances of leprosy spreading among white people or becoming general among the Chinese population of this province are very remote * * * Q. Is it not a fact that although living in close proximity to each other, it does not appear to have any great effect on their general health ?—A. I think it does ; I think the Chinese are more unhealthy as a class than the same class of white people ; 1 think the places they live in, with the vitiated atmosphere they breathe, the bad surroundings generally in which they live, have, and must necessarily have, a deleterious effect on their health. Q. Would you go so far as. to say that it produces disease of a more dangerous character ?—A. It is a good field for consumption; it is very dangerous for the public at large to have people who live in such a vitiated atmosphere going around the city expectorating on the sidewalks, and the like; the Chinese are very careless as to this ; the Chinese are good subjects for consumption j the streets of Chinatown are frequently slippery from expectoration. Dr. Alfred T. Watt, the Superintendent of Quarantine for British Columbia, in. describing the ordinary coolie, says : Their clothes are mostly composed of cotton goods,, that is the lower class. They bring some little bedding, a piece of matting, a blanket,, and perhaps two quilts. The whole outfit worth perhaps $5. Their age is usually from 15 to 40. Those who are older have generally been in the country before. I believe they generally remain here five or six years and then return to China and remain for the winter. Q. In regard to sanitary conditions, what do you say; are they sanitary ?—A. I would not consider them so. They have no knowledge what they should do. They have no sanitary knowlege. They simply follow their old habits in disposing of excreta and otherwise. They live principally on rice and fish. The rice comes from China. They deal generally with their own storekeepers. Q. Do you think that the Chinese living as they do in their own quarter of the town are a menace to the health of the city or not ?—A. Well,' Chinatowns '—some of them. I have seen in this province—certainly are a menace to health.' Victoria's is probably in the most sanitary condition of any of them. Q. Do you regard Chinamen as especially subject to tuberculosis ?—A. I think they are. Q. I have a statement here from Vancouver in which it is set forth that 19 out of 32 deaths of Chinamen were from tuberculosis. Do you regard that as a high proportion or not ?—A. I do regard that as a high proportion. There are probablyxmore than that among the Chinese, because when they get seriously ill the Chinese will try to get back to China. I know that. On every voyage of a vessel running to Hong Kong some Chinaman dies, and it is usually from tuberculosis. Q. Do you not know there is an enormous percentage of deaths from tuberculosis in Great Britain ?—A. I understand that probably one-seventh of the deaths are from tuberculosis. Q. Take the Chinese coming from a dry country, hot country, and coming to a climate such as this of British Columbia, wouldn't tuberculosis be more ready to attack them than the residents, the white people here ?—A. I think so ; but I think it is probably more owing to the way they live ; they have not the rugged constitution to resist the attack of disease. 54—2 18 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION H~ 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. Is there any improvement you can suggest in the present regulations in dealing with these people coming into the country ?—A. Well, the quarantine station is now fully equipped. Q. Have you any suggestion to make on the subject ?—A. It might be if those people were put into quarantine before they left the other side it would prevent disease in many cases ; at least in some cases it would prevent disease developing on the way over. Q. In other words, you suggest if more pains were taken before they left their own country?—A. Yes, in some cases in Japan the emigrants are held 15 days before they are allowed to go on board the steamer, and if such regulations were enforced in Hong Kong, it would be much easier to prevent cases breaking out on the way over. Dr. Robert E. McKechnie, Health Officer of Nanaimo, said : I am in favour of prohibition. First, from a sanitary point of view they are an undesirable class. I am health officer and so have an opportunity of watching them. The dwellings are dirty. I cannot remember having seen a floor scrubbed. The sleeping- apartments were overcrowded, unventilated, and often not even lighted. From a sanitary standpoint this overcrowding, with deficient ventilation, offers special inducements for the spread of disease, and on this account Chinese quarters in a city should always be looked upon as a danger point needing watching. The plague in San Francisco is among the Chinese. The Chinese population here consists very largely of adult males; a few are married and have children. In the unsanitary state or condition of a group of buildings such as ' Chinatown' consists of, I would expect to find a larger death rate, if the normal proportion of children and females were present, and where the population did not consist of adult males, the majority of them in their prime. The doctor also stated that from personal observation he concluded that popular report was true, which charged the Chinese market gardeners with using in a way dangerous to health human excreta from the cities and towns. This practice was confirmed by many witnesses. Dr. Walkem, of Nanaimo, a resident of 26 years in the province, coronor and colliery surgeon, said : I was health officer at Victoria. The Chinese were terribly dirty, and the officers were bribed by Chinese to keep quiet. I would prefer to see them excluded for a great many reasons. I have seen salads at hotels that smelt of urine. I saw a Chinese chew up parsley and spew it into the pot for soup. I saw a Chinese to save the floor spit in the cover of a dish. We have the lowest coolies here. They constitute a large percentage of the criminal class. In 1897 they constituted a large part of criminals in the penitentiary. I was inspector at that time. One of Victoria's smallpox epidemics was traced to ' Chinatown.' I traced it to them in Victoria. It spread to whites and Indians. Clive Philips Wolley said : I was executive officer of the Sanitary Commission for the province. Q. I suppose it then became part of your duty to inquire into the sanitary condition of that portion of any town or city that was inhabited by the Chinese ?—A. Not specially, but in almost every case I found they were responsible for all the trouble. Q. Did you ever have occasion to visit the Chinese district ?—A. Yes. I did go into the Chinese quarters, and I found the Chinese quarter absolutely filthy—more filthy than a human being ought to be compelled to exist in. Q. We would like to get any special instance that you have record or recollection of ?—A. A special instance I can refer to is what is found in the city of Nanaimo. I had occasion to inspect a house in a thickly populated district. The house was in a quarter populated by the Chinese. There were about a thousand Chinese living in the place. In this house there was not sufficient cubic space of air for human beings. Q. How many Chinese were living there ?—A. That I could not ascertain. There were crowds of them living there. I do not really know how many, fifteen in a room. A Chinaman occupies three times as much room as you can stand up in, that is about the proportion. Q. What is done with the refuse ?—A. The refuse flowed up over the floor and ran over. The well from which a portion of the town—that portion of the town—was a ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 19 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 supplied with water, was in the middle of the street, and the Chinese filth could not help but filter into the well, but the Chinese drank the water as it came from the well. Q. Were there other Chinese occupying other houses at Nanaimo ?—A. Yes ; they occupied what they called the Chinese quarters. I have never yet seen a Chinese house sufficiently clean for a human being to live in. Q. How would you describe their sleeping apartment ?—A. A board and a blanket and enough room to turn around in. We had an epidemic of typhoid fever at Rossland that was distinctly traceable to the Chinese. I was health inspector. Columbia avenue was full of typhoid' fever. To my knowledge wherever the Chinese were you would find lots of stagnant water. The typhoid fever was almost entirely in one street. JEn the Chinese quarter we found a deposit of filth underneath the flooring of every house in Columbia Avenue. It was easy to trace the typhoid to its source. Q. Have you ever known of any serious epidemic of disease coming from the wash- houses ?-—A. Disease coming from the wash-house ? I do not know. Dr. McLean, who has been medical health officer for Vancouver for three years, says : Chinatown has greatly improved in sanitary conditions during the past year or two. Our health department is doing, I believe, all it can to make this part of the city sanitary and to keep it so, but constant vigilance is necessary. The Chinese merchants and employers of labour endeavour to assist the health officials, and are, as a rule, willing to co-operate and help in this matter, but the lower classes of Chinese emigrants give a great deal of trouble unless constantly watched. They become a dangerous element in the city's population, overcrowding; unventilated, dark, damp and noisome places of abode, dusty atmosphere, laden with foul odours and opium smoke; filthy habits, unsanitary surroundings, indoors and out; raw, half-cooked and unwholesome or insufficient food, are all circumstances and conditions which predispose to infectious disease, and serve to spread it rapidly when once it is roused into activity. PREVALENCE OF TUBERCULOSIS. Out of 39 Chinese deaths within a certain period, 19 were due to tuberculosis, or 50 per cent; the corresponding death percentage among the Japanese was 6 • 5. In the health report of Vancouver for the year 1900 is found the following state ment:— ' The number of Chinese deaths within the city limits for the ten months of this ^ear ending October 31 amounted to 32, or about one-ninth of the whole city's death roll for the same period, this list numbering 281. The certified causes of these 32 deaths were :—Tuberculosis 19, bronchitis 1, pneumonia 1, cancer 1, heart disease 3, rheumatism 1, Bright's disease 1, hernia 1, accident 1, typhoid 1, gangrene 1, heart failure 1. The total city death rate due to tuberculosis for the number of months stated was 39, the Chinese proportion of this being, therefore, according to above figures, 50 per cent. In 1899, from January 1 to October 31, there occurred in the city 25 Chinese deaths, and the deaths from phthisis amongst this race numbered 18 for the whole year, out of a total of 47, or 38 per cent. In 1898 there were 22 Chinese deaths, and in 1897, 15.' AMERICAN OPINION. James D. Phelan, mayor of San Francisco, says: I have made a study of the subject. They have preserved all their race characteristics. Their conditions are foul and noisome. They sleep in places where white men could not live. They do not bring wives here. They live on a very small sum. They accumulate all they can from their wages and return to China to die there, and the Chinese who die here their bones are sent home. There are very few Chinese women here. I do not believe there are more than 115 out of a population of 16,000. Very few have votes, and these of course are native-born Chinese. Q. Have you difficulty in enforcing sanitary regulations %—A. Great difficulty. They positively won't keep their premises in a satisfactory condition. We have had 54—21 20 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 modern plumbing put in and they won't use it. We are now engaged in spending $6,000 of city funds in improving the condition of ' Chinatown.' We have spent over $25,000 in ' Chinatown' in cleaning it and putting it in a satisfactory state, so as to prevent the spread of bubonic plague. It is probably cleaner to-day than it has been in 30 years. We have taken hundreds of tons of dirt and filth out of ' Chinatown' in a very little while. It cost us $60 a day to cremate that. SUMMARY. n From the evidence of the medical and other health officers it appears that the conditions in ' Chinatown' are such as to be favourable to the spread of epidemic diseases, but as a matter of fact in only two instances have epidemics said to be traced to that quarter, one in the case of smallpox at Victoria, and the other typhoid fever at Rossland. The Chinese, however, seem to be almost immune from typhoid fever. The menace to health emphasized by the doctors is the unsanitary conditions of their quarters and the manner in which human manures are used in market gardening. To quote Dr. McLean : ' Their filthy habits, unsanitary surroundings, indoors and out, raw, half-cooked unwholesome or insufficient food, are all circumstances and conditions which predispose to infectious disease and serve to spread it rapidly when once it is roused into activity.' The unusual prevalence of tuberculosis among the Chinese, coupled with the fact that the greater number of domestic servants sleep in ' Chinatown ' and return to work directly from these places above described, presents probably the greatest danger from the sanitary point of view. All the conditions are favourable to spread the ' white plague,' not only among the Chinese, but through them among the white population. CHAPTER IV.—CRIME STATISTICS. COMPARE FAVOURABLY WITH WHITES. n In Victoria for the year 1900 there were 596 whites convicted, 17 sent for trial, 97 discharged out of a total of 710. There were 116 convictions of Indians, 1 sent for trial and 9 discharged out of a total of 126, and there-were only 37 Chinese convicted, 1 sent for trial on the charge of perjury, 14 discharged,^out of a total of 52. Thirteen were for infraction of the city by-law, 8 for stealing, 7 for supplying intoxicants to Indians, 3 for being in possession of stolen property, 2 for vagrancy, 2 for drunkenness, 1 for fighting and 1 for cruelty to animals. A comparison of the returns of the other towns is equally favourable to the Chinese. Out of a total number of 1,596 cases in the police court at Vancouver for the year 1900, there were 223 convictions of Chinese : of these 133 were for breach of the city by-law, 45 for gambling, 24 for theft, 7 for vagrancy, 2 for attempted murder, 4 for breach of the Sunday Observance Act, 2 for drunkenness, 2 for cruelty to animals, 4 for assault and 1 for breach of the Seaman's Act. In Vancouver, out of a total number of 145 commitments by magistrates from 1894 until October, 1900, to the Superior Court of Assize, and speedy trial, 16 were Chinese, and of these there were convictions in 10 cases, including one for murder, 2 for burglary, 1 attempted shop-breaking, 1 for theft, &c. A large proportion of the convictions are for breach of city by-laws, especially those having relation to sanitation, and although the returns for the penitentiary are not so favourable to the Chinese, yet your Commissioners think this may be accounted for by the fact that the larger number were sent up during the building of the Onderdonk section of the Canadian Pacific Railway, when there were large numbers in that section of the country. ON CHINESE AND J A PANESE IMMIGRA TION 21 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 From the return of the warden of the British Columbia penitentiary since 1878, it appears that out of a total number of 737 inmates, 151 were Chinese, or about 20\ per •cent of the whole, as follows:— Shooting with intent 1 Keeping a disorderly house. • • • • 1 Receiving stolen goods 15 Rape 1 Larceny 30 Accessory before the fact of robbery 3 Wounding with intent 19 Kidnapping \ 2 Housebreaking 19 Assault 8 Assault with intent 3 Obtaining goods under false pretences 1 Stabbing 1 Unlawful wounding 4 Robbery with violence 2 ' Perjury 2 Assault with intent to carnally know 1 Murder 1 Indecent assault 1 Buggery 1 Maining cattle 2 In possession of housebreaking tools 1 Stealing ,. 15 Burglary 10 Manslaughter -. 4 Setting fire to dwelling 1 Aiding and abetting 2 Upon the whole, after careful consideration of all the evidence bearing upon this question, your Commissioners are. of the opinion that the Chinese compare favourably with other portions of the population in respect to crime. This judgment is formed partly from the returns of committals and convictions, and is probably rather too favourable than otherwise to the Chinese owing to the fact that where a Chinese is charged with an offence it is very difficult to procure a conviction. This arises from the almost utter disregard by the Chinese of the sanctity and obligation imposed by an oath. Their evidence is declared to be almost without exception unreliable, except in the case of merchants and business men. It was stated by the police magistrate at Victoria, that on more than one occasion, he was satisfied that an organized effort was made and succeeded in defeating the ends of justice. Hezekiah George Hall, police magistrate for the city of Victoria, since November, 1898, says : Q. Do you think that from our way of administering the oath, it is looked upon as a sacred thing by the Chinese ?—A. In a great many cases it is not; in fact I have come to the conclusion that the oath has no binding effect on them whatever; there was one question I might perhaps be allowed to refer to here, in reading the reports of the evidence given here, I notice there was a reference made to Chinese having a court and having law administered among themselves. That has on more occasions been exemplified in the police court. Q. To what extents—A. There is one case that might be interesting if the Commission saw fit to get from the Clerk of the Peace a copy of the evidence taken in that —the case of the Queen vs. Gin Wing, on the 24th February, 1900. On that day Gin Wing was committed for trial on a charge of forgery. There is one feature in the case that possibly it might be worth while to refer to ; it appeared in that case that the party was summoned or called before what they call the Chinese Board of Trade ; and there 22 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 had practically been a trial before the Chinese Board of Trade ; at that meeting there was a very full attendance of the members of the Chinese Board of Trade and Gin Wing was asked numerous questions referring to the case which was to be tried in the christian court; in other words, it was made very clear that they were endeavouring to manufacture evidence before the Chinese Board of Trade ; almost immediately after the meeting of the Chinese Board of Trade, or about the date of that meeting, ihe information was laid against Gin Wing for perjury. After the evidence referring to the County Court case had been given, we found it was difficult to arrive at any conclusion I reference was made to admissions said to have been made by Gin Wing at this meeting of the Chinese Board of Trade ; three witnesses were called to give evidence as to the admissions made at the same time \ it was only by putting together a.lot of circumstances surrounding the whole transaction, that I was enabled to arrive at any kind of conclusion as to what had actually occurred at that meeting of the Board of Trade ; and particularly was it made difficult when five witnesses as to this were tendered on behalf of the prosecution ; and after a time, after hearing their statements; I declined to hear any further evidence. The counsel for the defendants did not object to the evidence at all; but putting together the circumstances which I was enabled to gather together, after the evidence of the five, it was quiet clear to my mind that the evidence was absolutely inadmissible, because this man had practically been forced to attend that meeting of the Board of Trade, which was supposed to be attended by all the leadin Chinatown, and the evidence disclosed that any merchant bound to attend and adjudicate upon the matter. Q. The defendant was under duress in fact ?—A. He was; it was not until the evidence of the five witnesses was tendered and partly given, which I afterwards ruled out entirely, that we found out that there were threats of violence towards Gin Wing at the Board of Trade; that such threats were 'made; that an actual assault was only prevented by one of the members going to the rescue of Gin Wing | then immediately, or almost immediately, after forcing him to make statements at that meeting they tendered the evidence of those statements in the police court against him. I would have dismissed the case there and then had it not been that outside altogether of the admissions given at the Board of Trade there was a prima facie case against him, and no evidence was given for the defence ; I therefore committed him for trial. Q. Was he afterwards acquitted ?—A. Yes. Q. You committed him for trial, and he was afterwards acquitted ?—A. Yes \ that was to my mind such a clear case of trial, or attempted trial, by the Chinese Board of Trade that I thought it right to mention it. receiving g merchants in a summons was CHAPTER V—THE MORAL AND RELIGIOUS ASPECT OF THE CASE. An interesting fact established beyond all doubt by the evidence is that missionary work among the Chinese on the coast has met with very little success, if one is to judge by the number of converts, and the ministers and clergy so far as we could ascertain, with very few exceptions, were opposed to further immigration of Chinese or Japanese labourers. Curiously enough where a witness was found in favour of further immigration it was put, not upon the ground of equality or of affording an opportunity for "the Chinese to rise by reason of new conditions, but upon the ground that they were a servile class and a servile class was necessary for the higher development of the Anglo- Saxon race. It is difficult to make a comparison between the morality of the Chinese and that of the white men. Their standards are different. They have their peculiar virtues and vices. They are sober but addicted to opium, thrifty but inveterate gamblers. It is a remarkable fact that there was only one case of assault with intent to commit rape and one of indecent assault. In Victoria there are said to be four Chinese prostitutes and one hundred and fifty whites—and in Vancouver and other places the proportion was about the same. / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 23 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The Commission were careful to invite a full expression of opinion upon this point, and believe that they obtained what may be regarded as a consensus of opinion upon this question, and it is overwhelmingly against any further immigration of this class. The Rev. W. Leslie Clay, minister of the Presbyterian church at Victoria, says: I have resided here seven years. We have been carrying on mission work for ten years. There are three white and two Chinese missionaries in the province. The Rev. Mr. Winchester, the superintendent of Chinese missions, has resigned. He reported in 1899, thirty-six Chinese as members of the church. They are rather averse to Christianity. This arises from their satisfaction with their own social life and a contempt of everything of.western social life. The converts are principally of the labouring classes, domestics and laundrymen. Q. Do you know how they are regarded by their fellow Chinese ? A. With a great deal of antipathy. I know of some who have been cast off by their friends and looked down upon by their neighbours, because of their having adopted christian modes of thought and living. I don't know of any of the educated classes of Chinese accepting Christianity. The presence of any large numbers is not desirable. I object to more Chinese. I think that Canada should have a strong robust nation. The vast resources ought to afford scope for our own people. They show no signs of assimilation with us. They can never be assimilated, and if they could it would not be desirable. Q. Upon what ground would you exclude any part of God's creatures from any part of the world ? A. Well, I have not spoken of excluding them either by head tax or by prohibitory law, but self-preservation as we all know is said to be the first law of nature. I would not exclude the Chinese or any other nationality on any other ground than that of self- preservation. The wisest suggestion that I have seen yet, and one that commends itself to my mind, is suggested by Mr. Ellis in the Colonist this morning. Instead of passing anv further restrictive legislation, that the Province and the Dominion Government should petition the Imperial authorities to enter into a treaty with China and Japan, by which the number of immigrants from either country passing into the other should be limited to say one hundred in a year. Their presence here has a tendency to retard the incoming of our own people. I have had people tell me their places were taken by Chinese or Japanese. I am inclined to put them in the same category. Their competition is more intense and more general. There would be the tendency of forming a servile class. Morally they have a different standard. They are addicted to certain vices which they do not regard as vices. Of their virtues, they are plodding, patient, sober, thrifty people. Gambling and opium seem their great vices as we see it here. I don't know in regard to the social evil that they are any more immoral than whites. I am told they are not. In the past the Chinese have brought into the city here in a state of slavery a great many women who were to be used by them for immoral purposes. I know that because it was brought to my attention by Mr. Winchester (the Reverend Mr. Winchester, superintendent of missions). Mr. Winchester was on more than one occasion required to go to the customs authorities here when such women were coming. He had intimation of such women being likely to come, and had to go to the Customs authorities on several occasions in an endeavour to have such women sent back to China. There have been charges of the kind made against Chinamen that they were bringing in Chinese women here in a state of slavery for immoral purposes. At one time there were three women brought in here whose landing Mr. Winchester sought to prevent. I think he was unsuccessful. I would not be sure though I think that they were unable to prove at that time that they were being brought here for immoral purposes. I had no personal connection with the matter at all. I I am simply giving you what I learnt .from Mr. Winchester. I do not know of any other case, The worship of ancestors is a great part of their religion. [ don't believe in giving them the franchise. If we naturalized them. them I think the franchise ought to be given 24 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 We should keep Canada for ourselves and such as will assimilate with ourselves in making Canada a great country. So far as I know the Christian converts are sincere Ihere are thirteen converts in Victoria. Last year forty-seven attended the week school Ihere are several missions in Victoria. I would not consider even Chinese Christians in large numbers desirable. The ground I take is that they seem impossible of assimilation with us. I have no doubt that vice abounds in all our large cities, but it is very apparent here. J Q. Would not the whole race be much better off if the Chinese were left alone and kept withm their own walls in China j—A. I do not see how we could keep them within their own walls and seek to enter within those walls ourselves. I say their presence here m any large numbers is detrimental to the existence of our own people, and as a matter of self-preservation some steps ought to be taken immediately to limit their coming or to prohibit them altogether, but it is a question involving some other matters, but 1 see no reason why we should not be able to prevent any more coming here. Q. Would they not be justified in asking us to leave them alone when we exclude them ?—A. I think they would. Q. Would it be desirable in the interests of the white race to have the Chinese remain withm their own walls and have no intercourse with the white people in any shape or form?—A. No, I do not think that would be desirable. I do not think we would be working for the best interests of the world at large in adopting that course. Q. I should like to know how you can reconcile the one thing with the other \ that is how you can expect to go into China unless in justice you should allow them to come into your country.—A. Certainly. I say we cannot stop them coming in when we wish to go into their country. I have suggested that the whole matter might be arranged by a treaty between the two Empires ; that the number of labourers passing from one country to the other should be limited to a certain number in each year. Q. Taking all these things into account what do you think the Founder of the Christian religion would advise under the circumstances ?—A. I do not know just what Christ would advise m the matter, but in what I have said here I have endeavoured to give an interpretation of Christ's mind in the matter. I do not say I am correct in this at all, but I have given you my conviction after careful studv of the whole question 1 have no doubt Christ would approve of self-protection. The Reverend Elliot Sproule Rowe, Methodist Minister of Victoria, formerly of loronto, has resided ten months in the Province. Q. Have you been sufficiently long here to form an opinion in regard to the Chinese question and the necessity for further restriction or prohibition, or for the further admission of the Chinese %-A. Well, I have formed some opinion, but my opinions have a tendency to shift. The problem is a complicated one. I think their presence here has a detrimental effect. Perhaps the better way would be to say that the Chinese have an injurious effect upon white labour here and, of course, the Chinese have an injurious effect upon the markets here, because they are not purchasers to a large extent of manufactures, and they affect different lines of business in which they become actual competitors with the white people. Their presence here is a decided injury to economic conditions; and a large number of them coming here would be a decided disadvantage to the community; it will be far better for the community and for the province that employment in the different trades and callings should be given to white men who will come here and settle and raise families here than to give it to the Oriental, who by his competition, by his being able to work for low wages because of his mode of living is gradually driving white, men out of the country. Q. In regard to the question of citizenship ?—A. Of course any importation into a province or into a country should have reference to citizenship; we want people here who will take an interest in our laws and institutions and ultimately become citizens an integral part of our community; such people as those who are in, not taking any interest m our laws and institutions become a menace to the community. Q. Do you think the Chinese as a class take any interest in our institutions one way or another ?—A. I do not think so. / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Do you think they are likely to do so ?—A. I cannot answer that positively but my opinion is they are not likely to ; it seems to me the matters affecting the Chinese people and nation are in such a state of transition, that they will not be settled for some years : but I would judge that they have no interest whatever in our institutions. Q. The strength of a people I suppose must largely lie in the class of people who occupy the various callings of life ?—A. Yes, to have a progressive nation there must be an intelligent moral lower class, those who do what might be called manual or menial work ; a class who, frugal in their habits and pure in their lives will build up a community rapidly and who will reside with us permanently, improving themselves, as opportunity offers * * * I think it is very injurious to the country to have any class of people in the community who will not assimilate, who have no aspirations, who are not fit to live in social and political relations with our people ; it is certainly a disadvantage to the country at large to have such a class of people filling up every avenue of labour as they are doing to-day. Their presence here has been very detrimental in the past, and I have no doubt will continue to be detrimental as long as we have Chinese here. Q. What effect do you think must the continued encroachment in the various trades and callings have upon the strength of the country as a nation, or as Canadians ?—A. In a very large measure I should think it would be very detrimental; the presence of five or six thousand Chinese in British Columbia has had a very detrimental effect; and it has had a detrimental effect but to a very slight extent on the Dominion of Canada as a whole. Spread over the Dominion, their numbers appeared small in comparison to the population, but when the majority of the Chinese are to be found in British Columbia, then the injurious effect is much more apparent here and becomes much more serious. Were the conditions, such as they exist here, better understood in the east, I have no doubt that action would be taken immediately to remove the unjust and unfair competition. I think that their presence here in large numbers has a tendency to tlegrade certain trades and callings, and white people do not care to engage even if it were possible for them to find emplopment in certain work, because it has been done by Chinese : white people think it degrades them to go into employments that have been commonly assigned to Chinese for some years. I think it is very injurious in any community to be driven to think that any work that is necessary and fair is beneath them. Q. Your observations with regard to the Chinese question have, up until now, been confined to their effect on the various trades and callings. Now, looking at the question from a national standpoint, would you favour further restriction or exclusion of the lower or coolie labouring class of Chinese ?—A. Well, it seems to me that restriction can only be temporary in its effects; I think that in the meantime there should be prohibition : speaking from a national standpoint, I think the general sentiment of the people of Canada would be in favour of the exclusion of the Chinese; I think Canada would be stronger by the exclusion of individuals of the Chinese race of the coolie class. Q. Do you think having regard to the same amount of labour expended that you are any more likely to get converts here than in China ?—A. Apparently they are closer in spite of Christianity. That is my candid opinion about it. Q. That answer would indicate that you are likely to be as successful in China as here ?—A. Yes. I think there is as much chance of converting the Chinese in China as there is for converting them in Victoria. Q. Do you advocate their exclusion from the country; advocate that there should be no further immigration here ?—A. Well, I cannot answer that in a word. I believe the reason they are a menace is that our economic system is wrong and you cannot hope to remedy that at short notice, and their presence here will be a menace all along. Until our methods are saner we cannot hope to have any change in the present conditions. I think it is humiliating to have to say that our system of civilization is such that we cannot stand the competition of an inferior race, but we-have to take conditions as they exist and to work to ameliorate or improve those conditions. Q. What would you suggest as a remedy ?—A. I confess that is hard to do. For instance. I think that legislation should be had towards promoting production and 26 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION regulation as to the I would be per- 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the development of the mineral and other wealth of the country j when we speak about developing the country we should have in view the developing of the humanity of the country as well as of the agricultural and mineral wealth. The wealth of a country is more largely composed of its people than most of us would think. We might develop our fields and mines, and the country could not be much the better, if the results of that development were not directed towards increasing human happiness. While there might be difficulty m enforcing it, it seems to me if there was a minimum wage; by a minimum wage law and enforcing proper sanitary regulations, and regulations of the methods of living and regulations of the class of habitations, there would be a more effective method then m force than the exclusion of any one race ; it seems to me that would be more effective than the passage of a law saying to those men, you cannot come in. Q. There are different degrees of labour; one man can do much more work in a day than another—why should a man who does not labour well be paid as much as- the man who does 1—-A. If there was a minimum wage, it is not necessary that all men should be compelled to accept that; but no employers should be allowed to pay less than the minimum wage, that would be the wage of the poorest class of labour ; the poorest class would get that minimum wage, and in competition the better man would get more Q. You prefer not to have the Chinese get the benefit of that plan?—A. I do not put it forward as a plan ; if I were competent to suggest a plan that would solve the present problem there would be no Commission. I have an objection to the idea of the exclusion of any class of people ; perhaps it is not a well-grounded objection. I would suggest as well as a minimum wage, that there should be some re<n sanitary conditions affecting the living of the persons concerned; and fectly willing to have all races of men put under these conditions. I would say Canada would be strengthened by exclusion of the Chinese race. It has a tendency to deter white immigration. They depress wages, which tends to lower the standard of living. They reduce the ability of others to purchase. They ignore our rehgious services. They create a laxity of sentiment and feeling and the social evil is likely to increase. I think they are injurious in present numbers. If their place was taken by white people the country would be much benefitted by the change. I think legislation should have for its development men ; development of fields and mines only will not do. It is dangerous to have a community within a community. If they conform to the conditions of citizenship I would admit them. They should be admitted, it at all only m such numbers as would prevent them being a menace to the labouring class. Of course I could not object to mutuality. This refers to ■ labourers only Judging by majority of opinions they are good domestic servants. It is more important to develop a people than material resources. The more wealth an immoral community has the worse it is. High wages alone will not improve morals. Morality and wealth do not always go together. Low wages kill aspirations, destroy hope and ambition and lead to vice as relaxation from toil. Poverty produces drunkenness. I would say there is less poverty here than in other places I have been. The youth compares favourably with the youth of other places for intelligence and the making of good citizens. I have thought the neglect of Sabbath observance here was greater than in any other place I have been in. Bishop Perrin (Anglican), of Victoria, says : I have only come into personal contact with two Chinese as domestics. I have found the two faithful and industrious to a degree We have had a missionary from China, We try to show them that Christianity is a higher truth. We have not admitted one single member to baptism. Several have applied. The class is of the very poorest class from China. They come without a cent and are under obligation to those who bring them here. My opinion is that when the Chinese awaken they will be found all over the world. I don't think thmgs ought to be allowed to go on as in the past. They are allowed to come in and arrive with nothing. I don't think China is advanced enough in civilization to admit them. 1 think we have a distinct mission to go to China because our religion is the universal religion If they are here we have a duty to perform. The maiority of white people are higher in morality than the Chinese. The Chinese have a good many virtues. Those who come here are very poor and the inference is, that is paid for by / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 others. If the higher and better class of Chinese come here, if they are, as I believe them to be, they would remain and become good citizens. My own thought would be, the Chinese ought not to interfere with the dignity of labour in the mind of a true ideal workman. I think the present immigration is not a desirable one for the country, because they are not the best representatives of the race. The presence of a transient population is inimical to the best interests of the country. The encroachment of these people on the ordinary occupations of the people of the country is also a dangerous and objectionable condition. Hence labour should be respected and is always respectable. * * 1 I do not think it has a tendency to degrade the better class of white labour at all events. * * * They take the place of our people. If you can get white labour you should get white labour. * * * I may state while in England I was unwilling to recommend labouring people to come to British Columbia. I am not willing now to recommend any of that class to come to British Columbia. As it is at present the English labourer here is in a very good position. " I think the white labourer could still come here and hold his own against the Chinaman. There is not a large number under present conditions. If he got the wage here of a white man, he would be better off than he is in England. I think there is a great future for British Columbia when the population increases. The Reverend Canon Beanlands of Victoria says : I have resided here for sixteen years. Am a clergyman of the Church of England. I have had Chinese domestic servants. They are honest, sober, industrious and cleanly in the house. They remain about three years. I had one young man who had sent $180 to his father by the time he was 18, simply as an act of filial duty. They are obedient to one master or one mistress. You can get Chinamen from $5 to $35,—fairly good about $15 a month. They have no wife here as a rule. We have had two Christian Chinamen. I think it it very doubtful if any considerable work has been done towards their conversion. I should think it very remote ground to expect to convert Chinese here. They might better try to convert them there. We had a clergyman here and his work was quite valueless. We then got a clergyman who knew Chinese and his work was more effective. Q. How do you compare the standard of living of white people in the same calling as regards clothing and food ?—A. That is an economic question. They have cases in England. I do not know whether my opinion is worth taking. The Chinese who come here do not compare with the white men in the shops or in the various trades and callings. The Chinese who come here are a servile class. They are a class far below the lowest mechanic or white labourer. I do not think that they compete with the white men at all. I think the white -mechanic who comes here comes to occupy a different position. He does not come into competition with the Chinese. If you take the Chinaman into your domestic service he has to live on the same scale as the house, with a difference of temperament, but outside the house of his white employer the Chinese as a race are totally different from white men. The white man cannot compete with them at all. Q. Could a white man bring up a family at all respectably under the conditions in which the Chinese live ?—A. I do not think sufficient stress is laid upon their being a different class. The Chinese here are a servile class. The white man here does not live; he would not live; he could not live as a Chinaman does. They are a special class. Q. Why do you say that ?—A. For instance a professional man would not wish to live in the same way as a labouring man. The Chinese I have seen occupy a subordinate position, a position of servility, subordinate to white employees. For instance, you never see a Chinaman acting as a master carpenter or a master bricklayer. I have never seen a Chinaman employ a white man or come into competition with him. In bricklaying, bricklayers employ Chinese help and they would not employ white help. The white help would not do for that kind of work here. Q. Why do you say that ?—A. Because they prefer to get better paying work if they can get it. We have got bricklayers here and have not got bricklayers' assistants. Q. Did the bricklayers ever have white assistants ; was it not usual at one time ?— A. Not in my time. 28 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. Didn't some white contractors employ white labour exclusively in their buildings ? —A. They might attempt to do so. The man who wants to come to British Columbia, the white man, does not usually look for the lowest kind of labour such as the Chiuese do. He may be compelled to engage in that temporarily, but he wishes to get better. Q. Labour, if wages are good ?—A. I do not think a bricklayer would give wages enough to an assistant to compare with what white labour requires in British Columbia. Q. What does a bricklayer get here ?—A. I am told from $3 to $5 a day. Other countries have got dense populations and a certain element falls into the lowest class. Whether we have no lowest class here it is difficult to say. The Chinese who are here, as I say, are a servile class,. Q. Do you think building could not go on without the aid of the Chinese ?—A. It would be according to what people could afford to pay. There is no doubt if labour is cheap that more building would go on. There would be more brick houses. You could make it cheap by importing labour from other countries, but it might not be politic to do that. Q. Is there any deficiency in the supply of Chinese labour as here now ?—A. I am afraid I must leave that to employers to answer. I cannot say whether there is a deficiency or not; I must leave that to the employers. I think the labour market here is very restrictive. It is almost a common remark that there is not very keen competition. That is the condition that exists where there is a sufficient amount of labour to supply the demand, but I cannot reasonably be expected to answer whether there is or is not sufficient labour here to supply the demand. I do not think there is an over- supply of labour in British Columbia. Q. Do you think if the Chinese continue to come of that class, the servile class, that they will remain a servile class ?—A. It will always remain a servile class. Q. Do you think it is in the interests of a country to have a servile class; that the working class should be divided into two races ?—A. Whether it is in the interests of a country it is difficult to say, but take the case of the individual employee. Q. Is it in the interest of the country to have a servile class ?—A. It has been found in the interest of every country nearly at some period or another to have a servile class employed in its development. It was chiefly servile owing to the prevalence of what might almost be called absolute slavery, and the nearest approach to slavery in our country is the servile Chinese—the coolie class of Chinese we have here. Q. As compared with our civilization would you like to see slavery here now ?— A. Well, I am not sure that I should not. - Q. Then you think the Chinese would occupy a position next to that, the position of a servile class ?—A. I think the position of a free man is almost emphasized by the existence alongside of him of a servile class like the Chinese. I think white labour is more free by the existence of a servile class alongside of them: . Q. Do you think a servile class has a tendency to degrade %-—A. No, I think it has a tendency to elevate those who are servile. Q. Do you think the existence of slavery in the South had a tendency to raise the whites there ?—A. Negro slavery is a question I would not like to discuss. I think all through Europe the existence of a servile class at one time in its life, had a strong tendency to elevate the non-servile. In Greece a very large proportion of the people were always slaves, who did all the menial work in Greece ; and the free men, their position was emphasized by having their menial work done by slaves. Q. Do you think that is Christian, that Christianity teaches that ?—A. It is certain that it has been so. It has been natural in the development of all countries. Q. Do you think we are in a condition now that although we cannot have slavery we may have the next best thing, servile class ?—A. I think at the present time that the white man's position as a free man is certainly emphasized by the existence of a servile class, such as the Chinese. Q. Do you think the Chinese take any part in our laws and institutions ?—A. No, I do not think they do at all. Q. Do you think they will ever assimilate with our people ?—A. No, I do not think so. It would not be good for the country to have assimilation. / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 29 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Do you think it is good for the country to have a class which will not assimilate and become part of the foundation of the nation ?—A. It would be very bad. I do not think the strength of a nation is in its lowest class. Q. I mean the working man ?—A. The working man is not the lowest class. It is a common thing for a working man to think he is not the lowest class ; that he is a free man. Q. Do you think it is in the interests of a country to have an immigration of her people here who will not assimilate ?—A. I think in the present state of the country it is. I would not like to see them become dominant. I should always like to see them as a servile class. Q. From which you could draw help ?—A. Yes. Q. No intention of elevating ?—A. I do not see that it is our business in the least. Q. Do you think they could go to heaven even if servile 1—A. Oh, yes; we have no class distinctions there. Q. Is there any position where you would draw the line between common white labourers and the Chinese whom you call servile ?—A. I think the efforts of skilled labour will protect that. They can protect themselves by their unions. Outside of skilled labour you may not have unions so strong. If the labour is not sufficiently skilled to have any union among themselves I do not see how you can restrict men. Q. Would you prefer to have Chinese in preference to English, Irish, Scotch ?—A. I would prefer to have Chinese in preference to having the servile class of either of the other nations, England especially! Q. Do you know of any servile class in England ?—A. The ordinary agricultural labour at home is in much the same order as the Chinese here. Q. Is there no advance for him ?—A. There is advance for him. Q. Would you prefer to have the English labourer here ?—A. If all the Chinese could be put out of the country, and the country could be filled with white men, who would be put into a reasonable wage-earning capacity here, it would be a good thing for the country. Q. Then in place of a servile class you would have what here ?—A. You would have a class of free men. Q. A servile class tends to elevate ?—A. No. I say the presence of a number of white men has a tendency to improve the others. Suppose you put one million white men here and no Chinese, a great many would go far below what the Chinese are here at present and would bring down the wages terribly. Q. Now, if you have a servile class here, the lowest class of labour in your opinion, do you think that will be used to crowd the low class labourer into the higher labouring class ?—A. No. I think the unions should protect them in that way, and they are quite strong enough to do so if they are properly handled. Q. There is a great objection to the union by employers in this province. In fact the employers think that the unions are all wrong ?—A. I think all skilled labour should combine for its own protection just the same as professional men combine for their own protection. Q. How is it that it seems to be an opinion prevalent among those giving evidence here, that more can be done in China in the way of spreading Christianity than can be done by Christian effort here ?—A. Because we do not have their language ; I do not think the missionaries learn their language sufficiently here to be able to give the Chinese a proper understanding of Christianity; I do not think the mere fact of mastering the language to a degree here would induce them to become Christians here ; I have never known a Chinaman to master the English language enough to be able to talk to us intelligently, so as to enable us to impart to him the principles of Christianity. I have tried several times. The Chinese social life is much stricter and much better regulated than the social life of those in the same class here; the reverence of the children for their parents is very commendable, and conjugal infidelity is much more severely punished in China, than the same offence would be punished if committed here. The Reverend Lewis W. Hall, a Missionary of the Presbyterian Church to the Chinese at Cumberland Union Mines where there are large numbers of Chinese employed 30 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION If 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 in and about the mines, says : I have resided here about seven years and have been a missionary all that time. I can speak the Chinese language. I was in China two years, at Hong Kong and Kam Tung in Southern China. We have a mission church and mission school here. There are only two or three Chinese children here. There are only two Chinese families ; both are merchants. The Chinese here are not coolies, they are farmers' sons. I know by the districts they come from and know them by their surnames. The roll of the adults who attend school are twenty-seven, from the ages of 16 to 45. The study is the elements of English, to read and write. Few endeavour to write. There have been twelve here who have been baptized. Some are now in China. The progress made is satisfactory. If my work consisted of the number of men who come into the church I would regard it slow, but from its effects I do not regard it slow. A Chinese who becomes a Christian has the same difficulty as in China, and besides has to contend against the present antagonism. It is immeasurably hard in both places. He is ostracised and shut out from his family, cut off from all intercourse and in the widest sense you can say the word, an outcast. From his environment he becomes a marked man for all sorts of opprobium. From a selfish standpoint he has all to lose and nothing to gain. That is emphasized as he ascends in the social scale. None of the converts here are Chinese merchants. The fact of their being here is evidence of their need. I would not favour the formation of a coolie class. The Reverend Edwin Scott, Methodist Minister at Vancouver, says : I have resided here two years. We have about eighty Chinese in connection with our night school. It is their object to acquire English, and with many their whole object. If they come they should be distributed over the whole province. I don't think it desirable to have them come. They do not assimilate. It would not be desirable if they did. I have no ill-will to those who are here, but I would see that no more came. I do not think that the mere fact of a number of Chinese being here has much effect in the conversion of the Chinese nation as a whole to Christianity. Nations have been converted without the aid of bringing some of their people into Christian countries. I think their presence unnecessary here from that point of view. My view in regard to their conversion is that we do not require any of them here in order to reach the Chinese nation as a whole. We can reach the nation without their presence here. They have been brought to a Christian country and being here, I think they ought to be treated in the Christian way, and not subjected to the annoyance of boys and hoodlums. Such conduct should not be allowed. A great many have been converted without being brought to this country, and I have no doubt many of them benefitted by attendance at our mission here. I know the missions in China are rapidly advancing, but as to the rate of advance I can't state. I think we can reach them much better at home than through the Chinamen who are here. My sister organized the first missionary work in Chicago and converts went from there to China as missionaries. Q. Do you believe in the universal brotherhood of man ?—A. I do, I believe in the common Fatherhood of God. Q. Would you deny the right of one class of men to any portion of this earth ?—A. The nations are here. We are not universal nations yet. Universal nationality and universal brotherhood are two different things. We would like to see universal Christianity, but that seems to be still in the distant future. There are distinct national lines and it may be those lines will exist until judgment. I do not expect to live to see a great approach towards the universal brotherhood of man, although poets have dreamed of it. Q. What right have nations to take exceptions to the rights of men ?—A. I suppose that no objection would be taken by any nation to the inhabitants of another country coming there in small numbers; then it will be perfectly right to care for them as Christians ; but when it comes to an immigration by thousands, affecting the industrial work of the nation, then I think the national government have a right to protect their own people, and to send such a large number of aliens back to their own land. Q. How would that affect the missionary work ?—A. We must view it from a national standpoint. It would affect it very little from a national standpoint. It won't affect the missionary work. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION, 31 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 It is a different thing when small numbers of a foreign nation come here from that of a flood of aliens overrunning a small part of our great Dominion. If we could flood the labour market in China with thousands from America there would be the same question on hand in China that you have here now, and it would not affect the religious question at all. Q. Do you think the Chinese coming here has no influence in spreading Christianity when he returns ?—A. My impression is that the Chinese who return from here have very little influence in China as to Christianity. I think as a nation they stand nearer to Christianity than some other nations. The labour market here is congested. I should prefer to see the white men doing the work of this province. We have to draw our support from the labouring people, and these are affected because labour can be obtained so cheaply. I am a British subject. The Reverend Roderick George McBeth, Presbyterian Minister at Vancouver, says : An alien race which refuses to assimilate is more or less a menace. Icelanders and Swedes readily assimilate. I think we have all the Chinese we can digest. Looking at this question we must regard the future. Our children must have room for livelihood. I can't say I see much difference between Chinese and Japanese. I don't know the nature of the missionary work in this province. I do not consider restriction affects the question of missions. As to domestic servants, there are more avenues opened out than ever before. These foreigners have come in and taken up that work, and it has caused white servants to leave it and take up other employments. Domestic service is held in low esteem and will so continue until we get some schools of domestic science. I have resided in British Columbia a little over a year. The Reverend John Reid, jr., Minister of the Independent Presbyterian Church, .says: I have been in British Columbia over three years, and in Port Townsend (Wash.) for twenty years, and in California. My opinion is that it would be preferable to exclude for a season all Chinese immigration. There may come conditions when it would be well to relax, but we are not now assimilating this element. Personally I have no prejudice against any race or colour. I do net think it is good for many of them to come to this country. They congregate and the property in that locality deteriorates because of the difference in the standard of living. As a race, until their religious concepts are changed, I don't think they will assimilate. I have not known 'here of youths being contaminated by Chinese, but it has . occurred on the other side. The impression made upon the mind of Chinese on the West Coast has not been favourable. A missionary carries the life with him. Here the professing christian sometimes treats the Chinese outrageously. In conversation with missionaries I have been informed that the greater portion of those who come here are coolies and the lower agricultural class. I am pretty sure there are not sufficient servant girls here to meet the demand. I found the Chinese very efficient, honest and reliable as domestic servants. The Reverend Dr. Roland D. Grant, Baptist Minister, says : I have been ten years • on the coast, from here to Mexico. I was six years at Portland. Was previously pastor in Boston, where we had one hundred Chinese children. In Portland we had a Chinese membership of one hundred, two Chinese deacons, including a member of the six companies. If the Chinese were to accumulate here numbers would have to count. Their assimilation is almost forbidden by their segregation. I have known a few of the brightest Chinese to marry white people. There is a want at least of real fitness. In 1880 Portland had a population of 20,000, of which 6,000 were Chinese. Now there is a population of 100,000, and 5,000 Chinese. The Exclusion Act did not interfere with the friendship of China. I think a people have that moral right (i.e. to exclude). If they could intermarry that would be the settlement and the only settlement. I never could find but two Chinese women in Boston. The spirit of exclusiveness remains the same after conversion as before. I do not think an Exclusion Act here would produce any shock. It would be quiet and unobserved. It would be beneficial to the Chinese here. I don't think the Chinese government would find any fault. They have no more prostitution than whites. They compare favourably with whites as law- . abiding citizens. 32 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 If you go down to the root of the matter it must centre itself in the question of the family. The Chinese coming here as they are coming, without families, must have a deteriorating tendency, and the conditions under which the Chinese live here do not favour the introduction of their families. Restriction has a tendency to develop the family more in the long run, but if the families in Portland have increased in the time I have known them, I think 1 would have detected it, the $100 will not keep them out. It might make some difference in quality. The Exclusive Act did an excellent work. It helped to a friendly relation with China. It did not interfere with trade with China. John Perry Bowell, Methodist Minister of New Westminster, says : I am a clergyman, a Methodist Minister. I am a native of Newfoundland, and have resided in British Columbia since 1883. I have been in the upper country four years and the balance of the time on the coast—at Cowichan, Saanich, Chiiamch, Surrey municipality and New Westminster. I consider the large immigration of Chinese and Japanese to be detrimental to the labour interests of the country, because certain avenues of industry that could be worked by white labour are largely controlled and in danger of being monopolized by Chinese and Japanese. I refer particularly to the milling industries and the fisheries. In regard to the milling industries I have knowledge of persons in my congregation who desired employment and were unable to secure remunerative employment. This refers to unskilled labour. While this is so, it is not so marked as in the case of the fisheries on the Fraser. I am personnally acquainted with a large number of fishermen who came to this province with the expectation of finding profitable employment in the fisheries on the Fraser and the deep sea fisheries too. Those who came several years ago succeeded to their own satisfaction ; several of them secured plots of land and built for themselves houses ; a fair proportion of these were not only fishermen but skilled mechanics, carpenters, ship builders, boat builders especially. Since the influx of the Japanese these same people are dissatisfied, are sometimes in straightened circumstances, have to run over the province seeking employment and fear that they will have to leave the country. Nearly all of these are men with families. Those who have come recently were led to do so by the reports of' the comfort (not prosperity) of others, and have been bitterly disappointed. Some have speedily left. Many whom I am persuaded would have gladly left Newfoundland and made their homes in this province could not now be induced to come here if they knew the facts. They could only be indu. ed to come by a garbled or untruthful statement, and it would be criminal to influence them. When I first came to the coast I saw the conditions that prevailed in regard to the fisheries of that time. I felt sure that it would be to the avantage of the province and of the Newfoundland fishermen if they could be induced in large numbers to settle here, and only my knowledge of. the circumstances of the people lacking money in Newfoundland hindered me from urging them to come. While present conditions prevail, I have no desire to induce the Newfoundland fishermen to come to this country. One cause of this is the influx of the Japanese, partly Chinese—mainly the Japanese. I think on account of the increased cost of living the condition of the unskilled labourer here is no better than that of the unskilled labourer in the east, that is in Newfoundland, and in some instances it is worse. A man out of employment in the east has not the irritation of seeing foreigners doing the work that would otherwise be open to him. I think the presence of Mongolians has the effect of practically stopping white immigration. With few exceptions the Chinese have not advanced to our mode of thought and living. I regard them as a menace to our future well-being as a nation. We would do without any more with advantage. I know with regard to boys who during the busy fishing season, have their holidays and would willingly work in the canneries, they are debarred from doing so from the fact that the Chinese here have the preference. I have known this to affect my own boys as well as others. They employ them an hour or two a week. I have had two boys go down day after day and week after week and perhaps earn twenty-five or fifty cents a week. I don't know to what extent Chinamen are employed. It would not inconvenience those canneries near cities where there are enough boys attending school to do the work. Our vacation is from the last of June to the end of August. I think the main run is about the beginning of / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 July. From my experience in the east, if fishermen's families (as a rule they are large) were located near the canneries the population that would come to the province would meet the necessities of the case. I am not familiar with the cannery business, but am with the fishing business. Q. If I were to tell you that in a large cannery the total work of the Chinamen only equalled nine men for 300 days, what would you say ?—A. If the fishermen were on the river then this small work could be done by boys. It would help them. I have known boys work till 2 o'clock in the morning in a rush. The river last year was practically occupied by Japanese. With the large number of Japanese on the river it would not be wise to advise fishermen to settle on the river. In Newfoundland the shore fisheries have become defunct, the fish do not come to the shore. Under present conditions they have to pay a larger price for fish than they did pay before the influx of Orientals. I am not convinced the industry would suffer by a limitation of the fishermen. If it did injure it I might, if interested, kill the goose that lay the golden egg. I should say there would be 100,000 men, women and children engaged in the fisheries in Newfoundland. I think cod can be cured here. I think the climatic conditions are more favourable here. The present system makes against the family. I think it ought to be treated as a national question. It is a legitimate matter for legislation. I make a distinction between Chinese and Japanese. The Japs' superiority makes them a greater menace to labour. The Chinese as a rule are industrious and sober. I have thought the fact that Chinese cultivated land that would not otherwise be cultivated, is beneficial from an economic point of view. I don't think there is enough labour at present to replace the Chinese on inside work. In isolated cases they may be sincere in adopting Christianity, but for the most part it is to learn our language to enable them to secure work. A farmer must have some employment away from the land to enable him to live, especially if he has a family. Lands are held by capitalists or locked up in some way. The normal condition would be for fishermen to occupy lands which would not fully support them, and they would gradually clear up the land and be enabled to support their families partly by fishing. It is where such conditions prevail in Newfoundland that the condition of fishermen is the best. Tom Chue Thorn, Chinese missionary of #New Westminster, says : I came to Canada nineteen years ago like the rest of my fellow-countrymen; came quite young, with my uncle. I travelled through Eastern Canada and four or five States of America twice. I have visited a good many Chinatowns for the last fourteen years. I have a practical knowledge of our Chinese condition of life in many cities of the Pacific Coast. I was converted over sixteen years ago. I have been engaged as a missionary of British Columbia for the last nine years. Most all Chinamen in Canada to-day have come from Canton province. Many of us come directly from villages of different districts about a hundred miles from Canton City. Here we have four distinct dialects amongst the Chinese in the province, but generally use two dialects between four districts, or three districts' dialect. Yes, most of them came to this country quite young; they follow their elders and mothers or relatives and friends. Yes, most come here without profession. Most of us have a few years' school in China, more or less. If their parents are well to do, they give their son a liberal education, but the Chinese study cannot compare with English system. Most Chinamen here are farmers' sons. Regarding the cheap labour concern, the Chinese have been useful to every new country, especially to capitalists and landowners. They have reaped their benefit in the past. I think you Canadians ought to thank God to have the Chinamen here to do the manual work for you. Chinamen have been opening up many agricultural lands in the province. Some of them get pay for their labour ; most cases not. If they do get pay for it, it won't be much, but the improvement is left here to you forever. Chinamen are born agriculturists. They are accustomed to make the very best of the soil. They are industrious people, honest, frugal and persevering. Whatever undertaking agreement of contracts always kept faithful in their promise. They keep up their reputation of the time of honesty. They are very filial to their parents. Many of them deny themselves pleasure 54—3 31 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 to enable them to send money home to support their family and aged parents. Yes, there are good qualities in Chinamen, but this is not perfect in us. The chief sin of our race in this country is to set up a monument of Chinatown wherever they go, bad example, gambling and opium smoking. Set up the different tongues to quarrelling and fighting amongst themselves. Import slave girls to sell for prostitution. Love their dead friends more than their live ones. They worship the graveyard three times a year, educated or uneducated, young or old, rich or poor, enlightened or not enlightened. Ride steam engines and locomotive cars every day in this country, but most of them believe mountain, winds and water gods, their dead friends preventing and opposing railways aud steam locomotives in China. By observation they ought to know better. In God's view nothing good in us. I don't mean in New Westminster here at present. Chinamen here are much better people than in any other Chinatown, but I am speaking from experience during the last ten or fifteen years. By nature all Chinamen desire high wages, but in actual skilled labour they are not worth much in the market. It is true that the Chinese physically are not strong as Europeans, but just true as a Pole, Chinamen are able to bear the hardships and suffering more than the Europeans. Yes, there is good quality in them. They are always willing to work. They prefer light work, such as laundry and housework, because it suits their strength. The health of our race don't look as strong as they ought to be, because they eat too much pork and those old dry Chinese foods. Most indigestion foods are used that gives no colour in their face. Those who live on European food are much more healthy than the others. They do this through ignorance. In the matter of trade, they prefer their own people. My opinion is, if the Chinese, when they first come here, adopt the custom and laws of the country, living, dealing, socially like Europeans, there would be no more anti-Chinese questiou to-day. If my fellow-countrymen only knew what they are living in this earth for, the world would have nothing against us to-day. If they knew, the condition of life would be much better to-day. I am sorry to say we are not living up to the time of civilization. We are a hundred miles away from other nations. If they were less anti-Christian and obeyed the laws and customs of the country, I am sure Chinamen would stand just as good as other nationalities to-day. The trouble is they are not. I wish they had thirty or forty years ago. The missionaries have done a great deal of good amongst the Chinese on the Pacific coast here. * Not only chief sinner converted to God, but also broke down the lively tongs of Highbinderism, and stopped the importation of Chinese slave girls for immoral purposes. Missionaries have a good prospect of future work among Chinese on the Coast cities here. The Methodists have a Chinese mission church here. We have fifteen members; two of them are merchants. We also have about forty to fifty Chinamen attending our night schools through the winter. We have a pretty good attendance at Sunday services. There are about fifteen Chinese boys attending public school in the city here—sixteen Chinese families. The greatest influence amongst Chinese is the Middle Kingdom Association, supposed to belong to all classes of Chinamen in the province. This is mostly composed of merchants as a board of trustees and president. The headquarter is in Victoria. The second is Chee Kung Tong, known to the Europeans and called Chinese Secret Society. Their headquarters are in Victoria, too, but they have branches in every Chinatown. I think more than one-half of the Chinamen in Canada are members. Then the Chinese Empire Reform Society, their intention being to learn the western methods and laws of government, but all of them are idolatrous and ancestral worshippers, followers of Confucius. Most of the good standing members have no interest to inquire into Christianity. Now we have a handful of Chinese Christians here and there in the province, belonging to all denominations. Some have proved faithful to their new religion, but some have received little English education from Chinese mission school. They may have a false profession of Christianity to deceive the white. I believe the more converted Chinese we have, the better citizens you will have. I know the unconverted men, and the money-maker out of Chinatown, they don't want to see Chinamen get converted, because they are ashamed of themselves, or they can't cheat them as easily as the unconverted ones. I believe there are Chinese ■ T / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 35 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 enough to fill the demand of labour in the country at present. I favour restriction and regulation, but not taxation. I think it a great sin to any government to put a head tax on any nationality coming into the country. It is not righteous in the law. A Christian nation broke the treaty of a heathen nation. It is a disgrace for the British empire. It is all right for a government seeking power, but there was no righteousness. Oh, I wish the government say, you Chinamen cannot come to Canada, then stop the Chinese at once. If the government allow us to come under taxation, they ought to permit us to do the public work. I think it is very cruel the way the government treat the Chinamen, but after all on account the heathen Chinese they deserve it. They bear it well, but the Christian is not willing to bear it. This proves in one sense the converted Chinese are worse than those unconverted ones. Well, I wish the government would make some little change in method of collecting revenues from our Chinese. It will do the Chinaman good and benefit the country. That is, put a heavy tax on the Chinese food, instead of head tax. History shows that Chinamen are bound to live on Chinese food and use Chinese goods. The government will not lose any revenue from head tax, but in the long run will derive more tax from the Chinese. If our Chinamen were willing to abandon their habits and customs they would be good citizens to the country, but I do not think the Chinese will ever assimilate with the Canadians—cannot under present situation. I wish the government would allow those naturalized Chinese, having educational qualification, the privilege of the franchise— -treat them as men, as British subjects. They ought not to issue naturalization papers to applicants, while the government do not consider them citizens. I hope the government will have more conscience to make righteous laws. Reverend Alexander Brown Winchester, now residing in Toronto, pastor of Knox Presbyterian Church, formerly resided in British Columbia, from April, 1892, to December, 1900, said: I was superintendent of Chinese missions in British Columbia in connection with the Presbyterian Church, with headquarters at Victoria. Organized Chinese mission work in British Columbia and established three permanent stations, at Victoria, Vancouver and Union Mines ; also three sub-stations, at Westminster, Rossland (for the Kootenay district), and at Extension Mines, Vancouver Island. In addition to these mission stations a number of schools were conducted by the church* throughout the province, at which adult Chinese .attended. These schools were in some instances night schools for secular instruction, and in others Sunday schools for religious instruction. Approximately the number of Chinese who joined the church during the period of my ininistration was not less than thirty, and possibly as high as thirty-six. When I left Victoria there were fourteen Chinese adherents of the church and five or six more had returned to China. In Vancouver at this time the number of Chinese adherents was eleven or twelve. Mr. Clay was doubtless correct in stating that I had placed the number of Chinese converts in British Columbia in 1899 at thirty-six. I was for two years a missionary in North China. Church work in China cannot be compared with the work in Canada. The difference of country, of people with centuries of different religion from our own ingrained in them, the difference of language, added to the difficulty of getting the common people interested, owing to the lack of a public press as we understand it, and of anything like public opinion, were chief among the hindrances to church work. At every point the differentiation was wide and bridgeless and made comparison impossible. From some points of view the cpnversion of Chinese at home was immeasurably more hopeful of accomphshmentthan in this country. A missionary in China was likely to gather around him as a result of his efforts tenfold more adherents than here. On the other hand, quality of materials conditions the work, and it may be that one convert in this country who had imbibed the spirit of our institutions would be worth more than the larger number in China. Such a convert who returns to his own country, and in ninety-nine cases out of one hundred, so far as Presbyterian Church •converts are concerned, becomes a propagator of the truths of Christianity. Of course many more Chinese could have been accepted into the church in British Columbia during my ministration, but I would only consent to the baptism of those I was convinced were thoroughly sincere in their conversion. 54—3| 36 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Of those who became members of the Presbyterian Church in British Columbia two were of the merchant class ; the others were principally domestic servants and laundry- men. From a moral standpoint it is difficult to draw a comparison between Chinese and white men. Their standard differs from ours. Much that we consider moral shocks them, and vice versa. This; difficulty is accentuated by the conditions under which the Chinese live in British Columbia, their isolation and social ostracism. Of those personally known to me, converts and attendants at the mission, I believe their moral fibre to be of as good quality as that of whites of the same class, allowing of course for the different standards. In all that goes to make commercial honesty the Chinese, I know, were the equal of those of the same strata of society among ourselves. As to personal purity, I know of Chinese of clean lives, and also of another class, but they were not any more impure than men of certain sections of white society. The presence of Chinese in British Columbia in some cases affects the white wage- earners favourably, in others, prejudicially. If Chinese were coming into the country in large numbers I would favour restriction. I would not favour restricion of Chinese alone, but would restrict a large influx of foreigners from any quarter. I would base terms of restriction upon character and education. A foreign emigrant should be able to read some European language; should come into the country for some stated purpose, and should show some reasonable prospect of becoming a permanent citizen. I do not approve of differentiation between one person and another in the matter of per- mancy of residence. I would like some form of declaration from all foreign immigrants. I would not consider a residence of five years a satisfactory term of settlement. As a rule Chinese who have been in the country fifteen or twenty years remain all their lives. A few may return in their old age to be buried there. As a missionary, I considered it my duty to deal with the fact of their presence in the country and did not question whether or not there was an advantage in having them here. The simple fact was, here are souls to be cared for. Neither missionaries nor the Church have moved a finger to bring Chinese into British Columbia. I have known of cases where converts have been made to suffer for their conversion. Whilst they have •not been subjected to as severe treatment as in China, owing to the deterrent effects of our laws, their sufferings here have been of a vexatious, though petty nature, save in two instances where relatives at home implored friends here to secure their recantation, and as a result they were socially ostracized, their custom cut off, property stolen, and one of them threatened with assault, from which I was happily able to save him. From inquiries made of Chinese I fancied not many came with the intention of remaining. Their idea was to make a competency and return to China! I have met Chinese who had expressed a desire to become citizens, but who claimed they could not do so and maintain their self-respect. In explanation they said they could not bring themselves to belong to a nation that treated another nation so unfairly, instancing the unwarrantable attacks made upon Chinese in the press. Some Chinese who had become naturalized, hoping to obtain relief from this treatment, had been disappointed. There is hope of Chinese becoming permanent settlers if treated the same as other nationalities. At present Chinese allege that they are afraid to bring their wives and children to this country. I speak the Chinesle language. I do not think fear of whites influences Chinese conduct here. They are naturally law-abiding and in China are even better behaved than here. The question of assimilation is wholly conjectural. I have known of happy instances of intermarriage. The number of Chinese in this country who have intermarried with whites is greater than the number of Jews who have intermarried with Gentiles. It is possible that the coming here of Chinese in large numbers might result in bringing about conditions similar to those now prevalent in the Southern States. There are worse elements among sections of the European races who are admitted to this country than among any class of Chinese, who are always amenable to our laws and never foment trouble. I do not think Chinese would ever come to Canada in such numbers as to present a serious problem. In my opinion the feeling now prevalent against Chinese in British Columbia was due to a variety of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 37 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 causes:—1. Clash of two civilizations ; 2. Alleged unfair competition with white wage- earners ; 3. Political. A certain class of politicians make use of the Chinese question to inflame the minds of ignorant voters, and thus influence their votes. I- would not say that the white labouring classes have no grievance against Chinese. If it could be established that white workingmen were prevented from raising their families decently because of Chinese competition, there should be no further debate of the question. So far as my experience goes it is not true that the Chinese work under any form of oontract. They are free to work as they wish. The statement that they come to this country as serfs is not correct, so far as I could learn. It is probable that if Chinese in British Columbia affected the earnings of the professional classes in the same manner and to the same extent as they affected the white wage-earners, the professional classes would be as hostile'to them as are the wage-earners. In the matter of restriction, I would prevent persons of any nationality coming into Canada under certain conditions. Immigrants should be able to present a clean bill from their own country and undergo a reasonable educational test. If persons of certain nationalities presented a greater or more serious objection as immigrants than others, that might justify special treatment. Where Chinese have come under healthful influences in Canada they have rendered good account of themselves. Was not the conclusion warranted therefore that under proper conditions Chinese might become good citizens. Chinese who come to Canada are from the province of Kwang-tung. The term ' coolie' is of Indian derivation, and applies to a certain class of labourers, a certain class, or caste, and in my interpretation of the word, there are no coolies in China. Most of the Chinese in Canada come from small crofter farms or farm villages. Many belong to farming villages without being farmers. Many of them are sons of farmers and farm labourers. This class is not indigent as a rule, the average of them belonging, to the poor farm working class, not the lowest class generally speaking. The poorer houses of this class are built of adobe with thatched roofs, and the better houses of burnt brick with tile roofs. A poor Chinese labourer can live in China for $1 a month, Mexican. Clothing would not be included in this estimate. Students at Canton college were known to live at the rate of $1, Mexican, per month. I have been in Japan. I do not wish to express personal views concerning the Japanese. I desire that Canada should be filled from shore to shore with our own kith and kin. At the same time I believe that the land should be free to all, irrespective of race, creed or colour, provided they became amenable to our laws and institutions. I estimate there are about three hundred Chinese in Toronto, seven or eight hundred in Montreal, about one hundred in Ottawa, and smaller numbers scattered throughout other towns and villages of Eastern Canada. The Chinese in Toronto are chiefly engaged in laundry work. There are some few house servants. The average Chinaman in Toronto was superior to the average on the Pacific coast. I do not think this is due to the fact that only the brightest Chinese came east, as any Chinaman could get travelling expenses advanced if he could show reasonable prospect of repaying same and would give the necessary bond. I think the superiority of the Chinese in the east is due to better treatment. I do not approve of the suggestion that Chinese should be admitted to the country to enable employers to cope with the alleged tyranny of labour. As a matter of fact I do not concede that there is such a thing as the tyranny of labour. Both sides, employers and employees, made mistakes; but to say that labour was tyrannical was wrong. There was some call in Toronto for Chinese as domestic servants. The supply of female help is scarce. The reason for girls preferring employment in offices, stores and factories rather than in domestic service is due more to higher social aspirations than to any consideration of pay; possibly, too, the treatment many girls met with in domestic service influenced their choice. I have heard of the proposed importation of negresses from the Barbadoes for domestic servants. I believe it to be the duty of employers to give preference to white servants; but if the supply is not adequate, it is 38 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 justifiable to seek other sources. Chinese as servants are all right, but where there are children a female servant is best. RESCUE FOR CHINESE GIRLS. The commissioners desire to place special emphasis upon the work done by Miss Morgan and her assistants in rescuing Chinese and Japanese girls brought over really as slaves and held for purposes of prostitution. The law prohibits this traffic, but the difficulty is to enforce the law and rescue the victims. The officials have been greatly helped in this by Miss Morgan and her staff of workers. It is, we think, largely owing to her efforts that this infamous barter in humanity has been checked, if not almost stamped out. Her method of work is best described in her own language : I am teacher and evangelist in the Chinese Girls' Home, Victoria. The home has existed about fourteen years. We rescue Chinese and Japanese girls from houses of ill- fame. There have been reached forty Chinese and eight Japanese from a life of shame. Of these Chinese rescued twenty-two have been married. There are now four in the home. Some have returned to China. Three have gone back to their former life. Their ages were as follows: 24, 23, 23, 22, 24, 19, 14, 13, 10, 26, 13, 13, 21, 9, 45, 19, 15, 10, 7, 14, 14, 7, 24, 20, 20, 24, 21, 16, 24, 5, 18, 15, 16, 20, 28, 16, 36, 19, 18, 13. Those all married Christians except two. I don't think any of them were wives in China before they came out. Three were sold as slave girls, being kidnapped in China, according to the girls' statement. I have no papers showing those sales. All have shown a desire to becpme Christians. They have been baptized. The only women who attend the meetings are those who have gone through the mission homes. The progress is very slow in christianizing the Chinese. When I first came here it is five years ago—I am well received now, when then I was hardly tolerated. I don't think immigration unrestricted is advisable. It is not so to the Chinese, and I know.it is bad for the country. From what I know of Oriental character, I think better Christian teachers can be made in China than here. A Chinaman will profess to become a Christian to get a wife. Many or all who attend the night schools do so from self-interest. Studying the question all around it may seem a harsh thing, but I think restriction the very best thing. Among the lower classes they look up to the wealthy classes; they are influenced by what they say, so that we have not much chance. Take any of the men who profess to be Christians, they are not brave enough to go opposite to their superiors. I think there are more than four Chinese of ill-repute in town. A woman now in the home says 24, and this is the number I made out without reference to her. The home has expended since I came, in Elsie's case $270.00 and in Dorothy's case $120.00 for law costs. I have had some terrible experience with the Japanese similar in kind to the Chinese. Only one case of sale I have heard of. Sometimes it takes some time to find them. One was helped from the window and ran away with her lover. Unless they want us to help them we can't help them. The home is supported by the Women's Missionary Society of the Methodist Church. I think the women of Japan are superior. There is no slavery in Japan. I see no signs of the Chinese adopting our mode of life. I think they are a menace to the public from their way of living, the way they herd together.. In Japan they have individual homes. The Japanese practise polygamy; they call them concubines. The children of the concubines are thought as much of as the children of the wife. I had difficulty in rescuing the woman now here. She is now about 38. She was crying and I got a policeman to assist me. She seemed like a demented creature. We got her trunk and followed by Chinamen we got her into the Home. She was an opium smoker and used tobacco, and she was a prostitute. In case of the youngest one in home, she was 13 years old. She came to the home on June 30 last. We found she had run away. It was contested in the court and cost us $120400 to get her. I do ribt trust one of them for truthfulness. / ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 39 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Our married Christian girls are estabhshing a home life vastly superior to that of Chinatown. I would not trust a young brother or sister in the custody of a Chinese or Japanese. The Japanese license prostitution, and the quarter of the city set apart for that class of women is not looked at as we look at such places here. The girls of ten go voluntarily. It is not looked on as a disgrace. The Chinese here treat me very courteously. I have never had an impolite word said to me. I have been in lanes and alleys night and day. I believe there is some restriction in Japan now. In this connection we would also quote the evidence of Lee Mon Kow, Chinese interpreter at the Customs house, Victoria, a resident in British Columbia since 1882 :— Q. Speaking about the Chinese women coining here of their own free will, do you know it to be a fact that Chinese instead of coming of their own free will have come here under contract, in fact that they have come here as slaves ?—A. Since about ten years ago several cases have been brought up as to Chinese women coming here who might be called slaves by the white people, but in China we do not call them slaves, because it is simply this, that women make arrangements with men to come to this country; the women cannot afford to pay the head tax or the passage money, and the men supply them with their expenses and the men pay the fare in China and make arrangements for them to come out to this country, and the women undertake to pay a certain sum at a certain time, to repay the passage money and the head tax and seven per cent interest. Q. Is that a Certificate (See Exhibit 17) of a case of the kind, you see the name there, a well known name, and the photograph and the figures?—A. Well, that is simply a statement of a money transaction between two parties. Q. That has relation to a girl, the name of the girl is on the right hand side, is the amount of money paid for the girl there ?—A. There is a statement here from May 29, the balance, $309.06, there appears to be cash advanced on the property, a piece of property, $28.25 and money loaned, $20.00, also money loaned from Kang Shong $30.00, the total amount of money represented is $397.31. Paid for Woon Ho, $302.00, June 7 paid for clothing, $5.00, also paid for a leather trunk, $4.00. Woon Ho is the name of the girl. Q. Do you make out that that was a case of sale of the girl ?—A. Yes, the transaction was a sale ; I was trying to describe that. Q. And the amount paid for the girl ?—A. The amount paid for the girl was $302. Q. Can you make out from that how long she required to serve to get freed from that amount ?—A. It does not state here at all. Q. Can you tell what that implies ?—A. It is a case like this, generally they pay back all this money; in this case it is one where she would have to pay back $373.50 with interest, and then she would be free. Q. Until age did that, until she paid back that money with interest the contractor would consider he had a right to her body service ; that is the business; prostitution ? —A. That is the business. Q. He practically buys her for the time until he is fully repaid ?—A. Yes. Q. To that extent she is his slave until the money is repaid ?—A. Yes. Q. How many cases of that character have you known of here ?—A. Since I have been in the country here I have not heard of more than three cases. Q. Do you recognize the name there as the name of a firm that is in business here ? —A. I do not remember the name now ; the statement is made out by Kum Kee in that case. Q. Do you think that business is pretty well stopped now ?—A. It was well stopped several years ago. Q. There is a case being tried in court at Victoria now, isn't there ?—A. That is the case of a woman who came out by herself of her own free will, Exhibit 17 is the contract. In the case of the woman being tried at Victoria, they stopped that woman under the new Act, that she was a prostitute and living as a prostitute, that is not for slavery. 40 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. On the charge of being a prostitute, the proceedings were taken under the Act ? A. Yes. SUMMARY. The religious and moral aspect of the question was carefully inquired into, and evidence has been quoted here somewhat extensively in order to show clearly and unmistakably the trend of opinion on the subject of many leading ministers of various denominations in British Columbia. The opinion is practically unanimous that the work of christianizing the Chinamen in this country is not attended with as satisfactory results as similiar work in their own country. The chief reason adduced for this state of affairs is that converts become marked men among their compatriots and are subjected to all manner of petty persecution. How effectively this penalty of ostracism hinders all efforts to Christianize Chinese in this country will be readily understood when the following well-established facts are taken into consideration. The Chinese in this country are almost exclusively from one section of China, that of the six counties within the province of Kwang-tung. While there is no conclusive evidence of their having been brought here under any form of servile contract, it has been shown to our satisfaction that their resident merchant class exercise a strong influT ence over the immigrants of the labouring class, and largely control the numbers coming into the country. There are, too, Chinese Boards of Trade in the several cities of the province, whose objects are not confined solely to the advancement of trade, but enter very largely into all the affairs of the immigrant after his landing in this country. Then there is the far-reaching influence of the Chinese Benevolent Association, the object of whieh is to care for the sick, indigent and aged, and it maybe stated here that there are but few cases on record where Chinamen have been known to have to depend upon the bounty or charity of a white community. It follows, therefore, that with a Chinaman to adopt Christianity in this country means to cut himself off from any hope of participation in the advantages which these associations and conditions provide, in addition to incurring the enmity of his fellow countrymen and without gaining favour to any appreciable extent with the white population, for, from a social point of view, a converted Chinaman's position in a white community is no better than that of the unconverted. Although in one or two cases it was made clear by the witnesses that they did not wish to measure the success of missionary work by the numbers converted either in Canada or China, there was no dissenting voice as to the relative futility of attempting the conversion of the Chinese nation by permitting them to come into this country. Where individuals will adopt and profess the Christian Faith, here there was hope for whole communities in China, and less likelihood of indig^iities and persecution being inflicted upon them there. The standard of moral character of the Chinese, differing as it does from our standard, renders it impossible to draw any fair comparison between them. For instance, their laws and customs recognize plurality of wives, and four such cases were found among the Chinese in Victoria. Certain it is they have many noble virtues and characteristics. There are customs amongst us which they from a moral point condemn as much as we do many of theirs. Generally speaking, they compare favourably with others in their observance of law and order. There is little doubt but that to the frugality of their habits can be attributed the comparative absence of sensuality. The consensus of opinion is, that they will not assimilate with our people and it would not be desirable if they did. In one instance, it is true, a reverend gentleman declared that they were desirable in the country only as a servile class, and that such a class would tend to elevate the condition of the white people in the province; but the great majority of the witnesses were positively opposed to a servile class, or to their introduction in any way that would tend to degrade or effect the welfare of the white labouring class. Under this heading, therefore, your Commissioners are bound to state that in no appreciable measure will the missionary work with the Chinese as a nation be affected, and that the well-being of the poorer class of white people will be the better maintained, by an Exclusion Act. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 41 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Having regard to the efficient work and practical assistance in carrying out the law rendered by Miss Morgan and her assistants, and believing that the law has been made effective chiefly through this instrumentality, the Commissioners feel justified in recommending that some recognition of this work should be made from the revenue derived from the Chinese head tax, to assist in enforcing the law through this means as long as it may be found necessary. CHAPTER VI.—PROPORTION OF TAXES PAID BY CHINESE. It is difficult to ascertain the proportion of taxes paid by the Chinese and Japanese in British Columbia, nor did we fully succeed in doing so. We obtained, however, a large amount of information at different points, from which the plain inference seems to be that, except the' merchant class, they do not pay anything like a fair proportion of taxation. MUNICIPAL TAXATION.—VICTORIA. W. P. Winsby, tax collector for the city of Victoria, said : I collect the revenue, road, and dog taxes. The revenue tax is the tax which principally affects the Chinese. They (the Chinese) try to evade the tax in every possible way. It is an utter impossibility to trace them. I don't get as fair a proportion of taxes from them as from the whites. At the present (March, 1901) I have collected from Chinese I suppose to the number of one thousand. That is for last year. That is about one-fourth of the number in Victoria. There are numerous difficulties in the way of collecting the tax from the Chinese. No one can understand the difficulty except those who have had a little experience in it. A great majority of the Chinese are in such straightened circumstances that they are unable to pay the tax, and another reason is that it is almost impossible to trace the Chinese with their mode of living and so forth. You eannot trace them. You cannot bring them to justice. I believe the law says they should call at the office. It has become the practice that we go after them. Very few people come to pay in the office. I have to round them up. They do all they can to evade the payment of taxes and succeed to a large extent. The Chinese come to town in the winter and as soon as weather permits they go to work on farms around the city, and then in the summer they go to work to the canneries. These men are very hard to trace and they often succeed in evading payment of the tax. When a Chinaman is working in the city I can generally trace him and get his tax, but you go into one of the hovels they live in, it is utterly impossible to find out who are living there or who the goods there belong to. It is no use asking them. I have never found a Chinaman truthful as to that. You can go through and ask the Chinaman there where they live and you cannot get an answer from one of them. Q. Do I understand you to mean that they systematically deceive you to evade paying the tax ?—A. Yes. Q. Is that true of them as a class ?—A. Yes. Q. Is the difficulty with the Chinese because you do not understand them, or is it that they try to evade paying the tax ?—A. They try to evade paying the tax, and their mode of living is a difficulty in the way. You come across a Chinaman and you •want to get his tax. You have got to give him twenty-four hours notice. You have to have a summons served on him. When you come back to serve the summons you cannot find him. I have had p'oiiceman and others to assist me, but you cannot find the man. 42 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Edwin Charles Smith, assistant treasurer and collector of taxes for Victoria, stated that the revenue received from Chinese in Victoria for the year 1900 was as follows :— Trade licenses . $ 2,882 50 Pedlars 530 00 Market fees from market gardeners, at 5 cents a day each 900 00 Water rents from Chinese \ 4,460 00 Sewer rents 92 00 Assessed taxes of property in name of Chinese 3,414 86 Revenue tax at $3 a head 2,385 00 Road tax at $2 a head 832 00 « Total $15,496 36 NANAIMO. According to the evidence of Edward B. Irving, assessor and collector of the city of Nanaimo, the amount of property assessed to the whites amounted to $1,385,925. Nothing was assessed to Japanese or Chinese. The Chinese own no realty in the town. It was said there was not a single Chinese taxpayer. For 1900 the taxes paid by whites amounted to $27,223. The assessed value of the property in ' Chinatown' owned by the New Vancouver Coal Company was $2,000. They are described as mere huts. Trade licenses of whites were $2,602, and Chinese $280. Revenue tax paid by whites $3,969, and by Chinese $624. Of the road tax $1,546 was paid by whites, and $416 by Chinese. The collector declared there was great difficulty in collecting the road and revenue tax. In Vancouver the total assessment of real property amounts to $16,513,135. The total assessed value of real property in ' Chinatown' is $260,225; of this amount $192,950 is assessed to whites and $67,255 to Chinese. The total licenses, including liquor licenses, in Vancouver is $32,055.85 ; of this amount $29,832.85 is paid by whites, and $1,310 by Chinese. Vancouver has a population of 26,133, of which 2,053 are Chinese. In New Westminster, of a total assessment of $3,299,920, $36,950 was assessed to Chinese. The whites pay in taxes $49,234.01 and the Chinese $699.80 on the above assessment. The amount of property in ' Chinatown' assessed to whites amounts to $95,370; to Chinese $32,680, and upon thys sum is paid by whites $1,907.40 and by Chinese $653.60, making a total of $2,561 paid directly and indirectly by Chinese on property in ' Chinatown.' The population of New Westminster is .6,499, of which 748 are Chinese. CUMBERLAND AND UNION. Lawrence W. Nunns, collector of taxes for the Town of Cumberland which adjoins the Union Coal Mines, stated : Cumberland has a population of about 1,000. There are about 800 miners employed at the Union Mines, of whom about 400 are Chinese and Japanese. Cumberland is incorporated ; Union is not. Both Japanese and Chinese live outside of the town. The assessed value of real property for 1900 was $175,000. The total revenue collected was $3,334. The tax on real property amounted to $1,054. Of the real estate tax there was $3.30 paid by one Chinaman. One Japanese resided within the town. The Chinese contributed absolutely nothing. They deal with their own Chinese merchants, almost exclusively. They contribute nothing towards the support of schools, churches and general taxation, although they represent a large proportion of the adult male population—nearly one-half that work in the mines. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 43 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 KAMLOOPS. Kamloops has a population of 1,594, of which 195 are Chinese. The total assessed value of the town is $650,000, for land and improvements, of which $15,000 is owned by Chinese merchants. Land. Improvements. Total assessed value of Chinatown $ 9,085 $ 29,200 Owned by Whites 5,410 15,225 Owned by Chinese 3,675 13,975 Trade licenses issued to whites, $815 ; to Chinese, including opium license of $100,. $170. Road tax, whites, $224 ; Chinese, $54. ROSSLAND. According to a Chinese witness, there are about 350 Chinese in Rossland. According to the assessor it is 400. The census gives, 241. William Harp, City Assessor of Rossland, says : The poll tax collected from Chinese at $2 per head amounted to $250. The assessed value of the city is $2,274,900, of which $6,600 is assessed to Chinese. The rate is two cents on a dollar. Liquour licenses, whites $ 20,535 Trade licenses, whites 2,193 Trade licenses, Chinese 125 Total poll tax, whites 3,868 Total poll tax, Chinese 250 The total taxes collected by the city for 1900 was $24,417, of which the Chinese paid $112. Rossland has a population of 6,159. It will be seen from the above that the proportion of adult Chinese males to adult white males is about one in four or five. The proportion of taxes paid by Chinese is less than one in a hundred. government REVELSTOKE. John D. Graham, of Atlin, says : It is hard to get the tax out of them. I was agent at Revelstoke. I refer to the miner's certificate and poll tax. I speak from my own experience. There would be fifteen or twenty of them working together and I never could catch hold of them to get their tax. I went up the river often enough, but found that most of them had flown when I got there. They were not on hand when I got there. They never come to my office. SUMMARY. The tax collector of Victoria declared that the Chinese tried to evade the tax in every possible way. ' It is impossible to trace them. I do not get as fair a proportion of taxes from them as from the whites.' The other officials confirmed this statement and we find it to be the fact. Victoria has a population of 20,816, of which 3,283 are Chinese. The total tax paid by Chinese, as appears by the evidence of the assistant treasurer and collector of taxes for Victoria, for the year 1900 was $15,496. The statement handed in by the Chinese Board of Trade, which includes revenue and road tax, is $17,257,, and inclusive of the head tax on labourers may amount to $18,000; but this amount it must be borne in mind is chiefly paid by the Chinese merchants, who, according to their own statement, 44 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 number 288, representing 109 firms. Deducting this number from the total number of Chinese in Victoria, exclusive of women and children, leaves in round numbers 2,700 labourers and others who are not engaged in trade. © © The total tax of Victoria, including land tax, water rates, licenses, &c, collected for the year 1900 amounted to about $400,000. This includes the school rate but not the Government grant. The collector stated that in March, 1901, he had collected the poll tax from about one thousand Ghinese for the year 1900. That is with a population of about one to eight they pay in the proportion of one to twenty-two, but if you eliminate the proportion of taxes paid by the Chinese merchants, the remaining 2,700 Chinese do not pay a municipal tax of more than $1 in $100, but in this comparison 2,700 adult males are compared with a total population of men, women and children. Eliminating the women and children, you would probably have a population of not more than 6,000 white adult males as against 3,000 Chinese adult males, including merchants. That is, approximately, 6,000 whites pay $382,000 ; 3,000 Chinese pay $18,000. If you exclude the merchant class, the tax paid by Chinese is insignificant. The above comparison is approximate only, but we believe the disproportion is even greater. Assuming that 800 of the Chinese residing in Victoria, who work on the Fraser pay their taxes there, it does not seriously affect the relative disproportion. Approximately the same disproportion obtains in other places. In this connection it may be pointed out that if their mode of living was normal, occupying separate houses with their families, they should represent a population of three or four times as many as at present. They would require ten times the house room. Their taxes would be more, and if their habits of life were similar to the white population, it would require more to support their families, and the contribution to the Dominion revenue would also be very much greater. • It is certain, having regard to all the facts, that the Chinese bear no fair proportion of the burden of taxation. CHAPTER VII.—LAND CLEARING AND AGRICULTURE. The clearing of wood land in British Columbia is a very difficult problem, owing to the enormous growth of the timber. It is said to cost from $50 to $150 an acre, and in extreme cases as high as $300; probably the average would be from $70 to $80 per acre. The Chinese have contributed to the clearing of land, and some take the view that they are necessary for that purpose, but the prevailing, and we think the better opinion, is, that if large areas of timber land are ever to be cleared rapidly for agricultural purposes it must be done by machinery and explosives, handled by white men. In small holdings the clearing will be done by degrees, the owner working, from time to time, at other employments to assist him in supporting his family. It will not at present pay even the large land holders to hire Chinamen to do the work of clearing, owing to the enormous cost, and although machinery has been applied to a limited extent, yet very few have attempted on a large scale to clear and cultivate timber lands. From the nature of the case, this must be done gradually, and how ? Your Commissioners do not believe that increased numbers of Chinese will greatly facilitate this work ; it will rather be accomplished by the adoption of a liberal policy, which will induce white men with their families to settle upon small holdings, and if a portion of the unskilled labour of the country is open to them they will in this way be enabled to keep their families during the long and slow process of clearing the land. The competition with the North-west and Pacific Coast States has also a material bearing upon the question of the time when the timber lands of British Columbia will be largely cleared for agricultural purposes. 7 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 45 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Farmers owning 160 acres and under were practically unanimous in their opposition to the Chinese, for any purposes whatever. Some of the large land holders favoured them as farm labourers and for clearing the land, and those who lease lands to Chinese for market gardens,—the lessee clearing the land as part consideration for its use,—also favour the presence of the Chinese. The smaller owners pointed out that conditions were such in British Columbia that the presence of the Chinese was a serious injury to their business, and to their making a living ; that the avenues of unskilled labour were largely filled by Chinese, and that the farmer strugghng to pay for his holding and to make a living, was greatly hindered by being prevented from taking advantage of those avenues of labour for a part of the year, which, but for the Chinese, would be open to him. Your Commissioners fully concur in this view. Quotations from the evidence will perhaps more clearly set forth the views as presented from both sides :— Alexander Philip csays : I am secretary of the Richmond Farmers' Institute. It includes the whole of the Richmond riding, that is Richmond, Burnaby, South Vancouver, North Vancouver, and northwards on the coast. We have different sections, and each of these sections have meetings. I come with a resolution from Central Park section. The resolution is as follows :— At a meeting of the Richmond Farmers' Institute held in Smith's Hall, Central Park, on Tuesday, May 14, 1901, Mr. John Green, Vice-President, in the chair. Inter alia. On motion of Mr. W. G. Alcock, seconded by Mr. John Connon, it was resolved, That we hereby declare it to be a serious prejudice to the successful prosecution of farm work to have so many Chinamen engaged in the business. It is especially hard on the settlers in this district who have only small holdings and are dependent on them for a living. The mode of life among the Chinese makes it easy for them to undersell in the markets and yet have considerable sums of money as profit. We think there is no comparison between the best of the Chinese as rural settlers and the humblest of the white men who, with their families, are Hving on and cultivating their holdings. Besides, the uncleanly habits of the Chinese, as cultivators, have endangered the health of, the consumers of the products of their lands, and as these products reach the market in so many different ways, the consumers do not always know when they are supplied to them. We believe that, although the Japanese are not yet so largely engaged in farming, they will likely soon take it up, and become even keener competitors. = We believe that there should be a tax of not less than $500 on each person of either race on entry to the country, and also a rigid educational test. Resolved further, that this expression of our views be laid before the Royal Commission now assembled to receive evidence in connection with the immigration of Chinese and Japanese. Extracted by Alex. Philip, Secretary. This is my second year as secretary of the institute. That resolution expresses the general view. There is a strong consensus of opinion among them regarding this matter. It expresses my own views as well. One man stated, there were twenty-two Chinese wagons with vegetables pass his door. The Chinese compete with all the farmers. Henry Thomas Thrift, a farmer residing at Hazelmore, gave evidence which, from his position, we regard as very important. He says : I am secretary of the Settlers' Association of British Columbia to assist in re-settling vacant lands. It has branches as far east as Enderby. Seventeen branches, with a membership of seven or eight hundred, presumably all settlers on land. There was a general annual meeting this year on March 11. The majority of members are decidedly against Oriental immigration. The Japanese are more to be fea!red than the Chinese on account of their superior intelligence. Firsts the presence of Japs and Chinese hinder a better class of people coming in and settling up these lands. The evidence is this : We have here one of the best markets in America for agricultural produce. Our own lands are vacant and unproductive. We lack that class of immigration here that the presence of the Chinese 46 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 supply. They would develop our lands and make them productive. I know many people have been deterred from coming here through the presence of Chinese. At many of our meetings resolutions have been passed addressed to the Dominion and Provincial Governments asking to restrict this and promote the class which we most desire. Many of our members are Old Country people and from Eastern Canada,—not of a low class. We feel persuaded it would be immensely in the interest of the country to offer this desirable class inducements to come, either from Eastern Canada or' from the Old Country. There is an immense amount of money sent out for agricultural products. A person going on some of our lands cannot make a living, and they find the outside callings filled with Oriental labour, and they cannot get work to help them out till they get started. Market gardening would be the first thing to be taken up, and the Chinese practically control that business. Second, if we got this class here it would give a larger revenue. Third, the Chinese don't become settlers and it would not be desirable if they did. Their system of living is altogether repugnant to people who desire to live as human beings ought to live. The Dominion lands, through the efforts of our society, are free to actual settlers. The Japs may come in and prevent the class coming in for whom we are so anxious. If all lands in British Columbia were like the delta you might employ Chinese and Japanese, but on wooded land the people have not got funds to pay them and these small holders themselves require wages to help to support themselves. In this I voice the view of our association. Their interests are adverse to any further immigration of that class of labour. I call small holding anything from ten to forty acres. The easily cleared lands are not available, because they are held by wealthy farmers. There is clearing after they are drained. There is not one-twentieth of these delta lands under cultivation. It could be brought under cultivation at from $10 to $20 an acre. In my own case the alder bottom lands would pay the first crop for clearing. Other parts I could not clear up for less than $250 an acre. I say there are $3,500,000 a year of imports of agricultural produce that we can raise here. If we raise that here anyone can see the advantage to the country. I made a careful estimate of the amount of stuff raised in Surrey. In that district, of a total acreage of 76,000 acres, 'there were 6,000 acres under cultivation ; that included all lands. I estimated there were 18,000 acres of low flat land, principaUy delta land. The total product was less than $250,000. I think the interests of the country should be considered before these large industries. The North-west Territories compete with us in oats, hogs, butter •eggs, poultry, &c. Those who have land here, of course, have to produce as cheaply as they can in order to compete with the North-west, where there is very little expense in bringing the land under cultivation; and those who have to pay too much for the land here cannot compete with the North-west. I may say I have charge of a number of quarter sections at the present time, both high lands and low lands, and as far as I am aware there is nothing against those lands, providing the cost of clearing was not so high to • prevent competition with the North-west; but the competitor we fear just now is the Canadian Pacific Railway, our national railway—they have immense tracts of lands in the North-west that they are anxious to get settled, and they are more inclined to offer inducements to settlers to go on to lands belonging to the railway than they are to induce settlers to come to British Columbia ; they are offering great inducements for settlers to the North West. The first question is that of a market; there is a good market m British Columbia, and that gives the Canadian Pacific Railway an immense advantage. They discriminate in rates against the agricultural interests of British Columbia ; they are giving settlers great inducements as far west as Calgary A settler coming to Calgary has every inducement held out to him ; a settler coming to Calgary 0811 IS, ^f6^? $3.5-00>nwh?reasifhewants to come to British Columbia, he has to pay $54.00 There is a decided di crimination by the railway against settlers coming to British Columbia. Thus the railway is preventing people coming in here who would develop our lands. The Chinese prevent people coming in. We want these settlers for social life — for churches and schools, and not have to tramp several miles for one of our own kind. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 47 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The early settlers did sacrifice all advantages. I came here in 1879, settled at Hazel- more in 1884, two miles north of the boundary, thirteen or fourteen miles from New Westminster. After the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway a great many men were looking for a home, and, as mentioned here this morning, a "great many men were brought out as an experiment from Quebec, and went out in the wild land to settle. Practically the bulk of the lands south of the river (Fraser river) was taken up, and the land back of that these people went on to try and makes homes for themselves. They had to reside •on the land for three years and there were other regulations which rendered it impos- .sible for those people to make a living. Access to market was not so easy as now, and .after a hard time endeavouring to clear land enough to support themselves, those people had to clear out. A great many of those people mortgaged their land and have since had to abandon the land to the mortgage company. Q. Is the unimproved land held at such a figure as would prevent fishermen settling •on it ?—A. Well, as far as fishermen are concerned I know places surveyed in what they call the fishermen's lots ; these lots are in big locations, and are from ten to fifteen acres in extent, and they are held at from $15 to $30 an acre. Q. Is there any class of white people in this province who would be prepared to hire themselves out to clear land at such prices as a farmer could pay ?—A. I do not say there are men here now, but there are openings for men to come here and start in building up homes for themselves. The greater proportion of the farm lands in this province are heavily timbered, which require to be cleared to be productive, but you will find a great deal of land close to the river, good agricultural land, that can easily be cleared up. Q. Who is going to do it now ?—A. We have to do it ourselves. Q. Then you require to have cheap labour ?—A. The farmers are too poor to employ -cheap labour. Ten years ago I paid $1.50 to $1.75 a day for clearing land. Q. Take the ordinary settler who has come in and gone on a farm, say twenty miles from town ; how is he prejudicially affected by the presence of Orientals in the country ?—A. If that man cannot make some little by working outside he will be in a bad position to have his land cleared, and his interests would be prejudicially affected. Q. Where would such a man go for work ?—A. There would be work for such men all over the country, but for the presence of the Japanese and Chinese. Q. How is he prejudicially affected by their presence ?—A. He is prejudicially affected if he wants to go to town for work. Q. Do you mean to say that a farmer will go to town in that way ?—A. The best settlers we have to-day are those who had in the past gone to town and earned money to help them along. It helps the small holder to get along. It helps him to live, and at the same time to devote his spare time in clearing the land and making a home for himself. Q. You told my learned friend, these men are too poor to pay for the clearing of their land ?—A. Yes. Q. Is that the result of the unhealthy competition they have to engage in ?—A. To some extent. I would not say it is due to that entirely. These people have to make a living somewhere. At first they cannot make it on their land and they have to take municipal work if they can get it. There is so much competition that the prices are so much reduced that a man cannot help himself much, and holders of small farms are obliged to come to town and get work, or go into the logging camps. Q. What happens when he finds the avenue of employment filled by Chinese or Japanese ?—A. Then he cannot get work, and he has either to starve or enter into an unhealthy competition with these people. Q. You have spoken of little holdings being taken up and afterwards abandoned. Do you know whether the Orientals being in the province had anything to do with the abandonment of the land ?—A. I do not think it had anything to do with the abandon- .ment of that land. 48 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. Is there any difficulty in getting the best land settled ?—A. Yes, because there is no demand. I do not think it is because those lands are held too high. Q. You spoke of Pitt Meadows. Do you know how many acres there are there ?— A. I cannot say. It is a large tract of land, good land and capable of being cultivated. Q. The presence of the Chinese does not prevent that land from being settled %—A. I don't know, but some of the land has been overflowed. Q. Doesn't it strike you as a somewhat strange circumstance that we have a demand for such produce as the land you speak of could raise, and yet we send out $3,500,000 for produce ?—A. Yes. These lands are not available except to parties who can pay for them. We cannot get money to come in here and invest in the high lands, that is, men of large means and men of small means would come in here if they could make a living here; but they cannot get the lands under the same favourable conditions as settlers can in the North-west. Q. The Chinese would not prevent men of means coming in here ?—A. I do not know that; but there would be a great inducement to white settlers to come in here if they could get work outside when they wanted it. Q. The high land is heavily timbered ?—A. Yes. Q. What is it held at per acre ?—A. From $1.50 to $50 an acre. Q. The land that would be sold for $1.50 an acre would require a considerable expenditure to bring it under cultivation ?—A. Yes. Q. And it is because a person coming in cannot at once obtain a living or depend on getting a living out of the land, and finds the other avenues blocked that settlers do not come in here ?—A. Yes, that is my view. In some measure the Orientals keep a better class of citizens out. I have employed Japs but I would not employ them again to clear land because they don't understand it. William, James Brandrith, Secretary of the Fruit Growers' Association for the Province, says : The association are in favour of total prohibition,—no further immigration to be allowed. It applies to both Chinese and Japanese. That expresses my own view also. We are not suffering as yet from this cause, but the thin edge of the wedge has entered. I know one Chinese with fifteen acres, who has strawberries, and another of ten acres of orchard. The property is leased. Another property of seventy acres leased to Chinamen ; two and a half acres are orchard and a half acre strawberries ; and other cases. I have a hist of Chinese within my knowledge engaged in fruit growing and market gardening. There are twenty Chinese bosses I know of, and a total of 643 acres, a market garden and orchard. On ten acres there were twelve Chinamen. It is impossible for a white man to compete, because the Chinese live at a cost of about ten cents a day. I have this from three Chinese,—Lee Wan, Charles Hees, and another commonly known as the ' Pirate,' I have seen them selecting food from the swill barrel. The difference in the cost of living would be the profit-or loss. They are a menace to health. The membership of our association is about eighty. There are two hundred and fifty on the roll. Eighty have paid their annual fees and are in good standing. There were twenty-three or four at the annual meeting. I think almost every one has expressed his views to me. It has been suggested that Chinese labour was necessary in dyking and clearing the delta lands and lands along the Fraser. It was therefore opportune to obtain the evidence of a gentleman who has a large interest in this question and whose evidence commended itself as worthy of the most careful consideration. Alexander Cruickshanks said : I have a contract to settle a large tract of land on the Fraser with whom I please, but I am getting it settled by white people at Matsqui Prairie. It is a good farming section. There are 10,600 acres already reclaimed with dyke, of which I have 6,000 acres, all reclaimed land. That was reclaimed with dyke seven miles long on the Fraser front. The dyke was made by white labour and machinery. No Chinese labour was used. The work is completed. There are several thousand acres more. The machinery managed by white men is the cheaper method. Pitt Meadows was reclaimed in the same way,—by machinery and white labour, containing about fifteen thousand acres, and there are about thirty thousand acres at Chilliwack, which is being reclaimed and ditched, by machinery and white labour in ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 49 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the same way. The work is going on at present. There is another tract of land lying between Matsqui and Chilliwack, containing about thirty thousand acres, not yet reclaimed, but could be; and several large islands, containing many thousand acres of land that it is possible to reclaim, and this land is all of the very finest. There is no better dairy land in America than that. From the nature of the work Chinese labour could not be profitably employed. Part of it is open prairie; part is open scrub willow, crab apple, hazel, and such like. I don't think there would be any advantage to have Chinese for that part of the work. Chinese have been used in making smaller dykes towards the mouth of the Fraser. Some have been used last year. The Chinese are not required up the river, and I see no reason why they should he required for dyking; land down the river. My terms are as follows: The price at which I sell the land averages $20 an acre. I get $3 cash, or its equivalent, and the balance is distributed over a period of six years, in equal payments at six per cent. Six of the settlers are fishermen whose main business is fishing. I think it would be to the advantage of both fishing and farming to carry them on together. When they stop the* fishing at the end of the week at close season on Sunday night the run of Saturday have got that far and the fishermen have a greater catch than the men at the mouth of the river, and on Monday and Monday night he catches also better, and the fishermen there lay off the rest of the week. One fisherman was most successful on the whole run, fishing only two nights and days, and the rest of the week he put up his hay, and he had a home of his own when the fishing season was over. The fishermen of the city and those in scow houses are looking for land at the present time. There is good land on the Fraser, capable of furnishing three thousand families in small allotments, being land not occupied at the present time, not Crown land, held by various parties who invested in them when it was thought to be a good speculation. I know many of the present holders who are anxious to sell those lands on reasonable terms within the means of working men. This would be a great source of supply for all industries—men with a stake in the country and families. I was in Manitoba, and until four years ago, in Minneapolis, and with a large logging company in Wisconsin. The capable men around our saw mills here were trained east. The proof is these men are selected as foremen. I came here twelve years ago. Have been out of the country six and a-half years. Am a British subject, born in Ontario. I would be in favour of any measure in the direction of exclusion. I have got men clearing land at Matsqui, of brush and scrub, and I am paying them in land and let them pay and work for land. They are white men. If Chinese offer to do the work for half the amount I would not accept the offer because I would not consider it good business to do so. If I did I would not get as good a price for the land which was left. It depreciates the price of the adjoining land to sell land on these terms to Chinamen. At the Court of Revision in this city, men appear to have their assessment lowered because Chinamen are on adjoining lots. In settling a tract of land, until I get a certain number of settlers in, I find it difficult to get people to go in a district where there are no neighbours. There is the question of schools and churches. Where I succeed in getting a white man with his family I have made it easier to sell the rest. It then becomes a more desirable place to live in. I look on the exclusion of the Chinese from the whole country as in the interest of the country, and on the same grounds I exclude them from my land ; no matter how cheap I got their labour, it would be a bad business to employ them there. I think the country will be cleared by white men, and gradually,—a little at a time. If you got your Chinamen at twenty cents a day the cost of clearing timber land would be more than the price of good land that never had such growth of timber on it. I don't consider it a business proposition to clear heavy timbered land. Moody Square, in this city (New Westminster), cost- over $300 an acre to clear it of stumps. I don't agree with the suggestion that Chinese labour is necessary to clear the land. Men are offering to come and work for me clearing lands as a cash payment on lots they are willing to buy from me. I draw no distinction with respect to Chinese and Japanese. All I have said applies equally to both, I own the lands I refer to. The land between this city and Vancouver has a peculiar value for small holdings, but not for farming. There are choice places in every district 54—4 1 «r JO REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 "and in Burnaby there are many low-lying lands. I think it was a mistake so many settlers were placed on these hill lands. They have had less pay for their work than any other class. Hill lands cannot compete with low land if labour was five cents a day. Dyking at Pitt Meadows was a first experiment in dyking and experiments cost money. There is a large block of land on Lulu Island. It is already dyked and could be made a garden. Ten acre lots would support a family ; a good place for fishermen. They fish all around it. One real estate man sold eleven lots this week for this purpose. On Lulu Island ten years ago they asked $200 an acre. It went down again. This is a good country. It has got the soil and climate and resources to support a white population. It would be very unprofitable to build that dyke by hand labour. Boys are prevented from learning. How can mills expect to get an efficient staff if they employ Chinese ? I have communications from England from workingmen, and when they do come here they are disappointed in seeing so many Chinese. Chinese would be worse than no neighbours. They would make the lands unsaleable. I want to get the country settled up. I can't see how this class is necessary. I know there are conditions brought about because this labour was here. Certain industries are dependent on cheap labour for their profit. I think if the country was settled up the white settlers would give them a substitute for this cheap labour that would be better every way. In dyking no kind of labour can compete with a machine that can draw up two thousand yards a day at a cost of $26 a day; that would be under favourable circumstances. There are lands where they use the tramway and railroad as the only practical way of dyking. Chinese would be impracticable there because they bring the material from a distance. Steam-made dykes are better than those built by hand labour. When the stuff is dumped ten feet the impact is very great. I worked in the business. The cost of reclaiming land on the Fraser would be less than in any place I know of. I think if a capitalist, he had better buy cleared land, and if a labouring man, he had better exclude the Chinese so that when he goes out to work he won't meet with competition. The most of the farmers I know have to go out and work and are met by the Chinese. When men come here from the United States and pay money out for land, I have had them call my attention over and over again to the number of orientals here, and this prevents the immigration of whites. The farmer does not go into market gardening, but the settler does at the outset and he has to work at anything he can do. Q. Wouldn't you say it is a great advantage to the farmers to get a class of men who are ready to do that rough work (clearing timber lands) at a lower cost than could possibly be done by white men ?—A. Men in that case would be making money out of the necessities of the Chinese, but they would find it a great disadvantage if the Chinese were working at something else. Farmers would get other work outside to help them if there was no Chinese labour in competition with them, in building roads, and dykes and ditches. Q. We have had evidence that they find it a great advantage to have oriental labour in clearing land ?—A. Chinese labour can be done without by using machinery run by white men, and the advantage gained by the country would far more than counterbalance this cheap labour of the Chinese. Q. Take a farmer who is personally occupied in the cultivation of the land he has cleared and he wants to clear a little more land. He says, I cannot afford to pay $2 a day to men to do such rough work, and he says it is to his advantage to have orientals do the work ?—A. I disagree with him. He would meet the competition of the Chinamen when he went to sell his produce, and therefore any advantage he would gain in the first place by employing the Chinamen to clear the land would be counterbalanced and more by the competition he would have from the Chinamen in the sale of his produce. I have never Seen one hundred acres of bush land cleared yet by a farmer. I have seen men gradually clearing land, but at a very slow rate. If he was asking my advice as to clearing heavily timbered land for farming, from a business standpoint I would advise him not to do it. At the present time it would be better to get on the low lands. There are over one hundred thousand acres of that kind of land that can be put in small holdings. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 51 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. These people seem to have been blind to their own interests. They have settled on heavily timbered farms and have started to clear them ? A. The most of them are forced now to go out and do work outside to get a little cash, and when they go out to do work they find themselves in competition with the Chinese and can get very little cash. If there was no competition from the Chinese cheap labour, these men would have a chance of making a little outside and helping themselves in developing their small holdings; but that is a case I have not come across, of farmers employing oriental labour to clear land in the way you put it. Their presence here has certainly a deterrent effect on white people coming in and settling up the country. He finds that he will have to come into competition with the Chinese and he at once seeks other fields in which to employ his capital and his labour. I was in Manitoba" seven years and the workers on railroads and farm labourers became settlers. If you lower the wage class you reduce the standard. I think the canners are entitled to consideration, but I think they could get white labour. I think it is regrettable that white labour avoids coming here. The wages are as high, but there is a disadvantage. It is the last job I would look for. I would not like to be one in a gang of ten Chinamen. The white labourers are beginning to feel what they ought not to feel—that any job is beneath them. I think one of the nicest jobs there is, is piling lumber. Piling lumber is not low. It is a good decent job. I know lots of college students east that will be piling lumber. I have a contract to settle a lot of land and I sell how I please, so long as I get the net amount for the vendors. They are all speculators. An exceptionally clear statement showing how the presence of Chinese and Japanese militates against the settlement and permanent development of the country was given by Mr. N. C. Schow. We commend this statement as coming from a witness un- prejudiced and without pecuniary interest, and from his personal knowledge, close observation and keen vision, clearly indicates the permanent injury the province suffers from this class of labour. N. C. Schow says : I reside in the city of Vancouver. Have been reeve of Burnaby for nine years, an out district partly residential, partly agricultural, and affording a limited amount of lumbering opportunities. I have a home in Burnaby. I am assistant editor of the News-Advertiser. Am an Englishman by birth. Have resided here ten years. We have a by-law in our municipality which prohibits the use of Japanese and Chinese labour on municipal work. We found that very beneficial in encouraging small holders; and by dividing contracts into small sections .we dispense with a middle man. Two or three white workers will take up road improvement in partnership and compete so keenly, but good-humouredly, that we believe the municipahty loses little by dispensing with Mongolian labour. The rates just now often bring them no more than $1.25 a day, but they take up our contracts between intervals of work on their own holdings, where they live cheaply and independently, raising their own vegetables, fowls, &c., so that they don't complain. The labour is free, not servile, and our contracts enable many of these men to improve their holdings and remain in the district, and bring up assessment values and improve the district generally. We have enforced the by-law in two instances—the only two in which any attempt was made to break it,iby declining to allow the contractor for the Chinese labour employed. That was the punishment for breach. As a matter of fact the by-laws are willingly submitted to by all the people. We take care to include Japanese as well in the exclusion, because we consider the Japanese even more dangerous than the Chinese. Some of our residents before Japs came on the Fraser used to put in a month or six weeks in fishing, but this source of eking out their income is now practically at an end. At one time, too, there were many white workers engaged in the woods in Burnaby, in cutting shingle bolts, but these have nearly all been displaced by Japanese workers ; as a result of which the white settlement has undoubtedly been prevented to a considerable extent in some parts of our municipahty. We have a lumber mill at Barnet and there, as the owner says, of necessity, by reason of competing with other mills, a very large proportion of employees consist of Chinese and Japanese. We should have a good deal of market gardening in the district. It is well adapted for it, but for Chinese competition ; but as things are, 54—41 52 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 we have only two or three specially skilled men engaged in that industry. Some of the settlers make fair livings to a large extent by small fruit growing. This industry for some reason, which I have not been able to discover, the Mongolians have not yet entered. If they should enter it those engaged in small fruit growing in Burnaby would not be able to compete and get a reasonably good living. They are in constant dread of an invasion of their occupation by the Japanese, as they are more inclined to go in for more skilled work. There are some cases of Japanese on hire for as low as $5 a month with the meagrest of board, and although they undoubtedly help to clear land cheaply, most of us feel that in the end the farmers will pay dearly for the temporary gain, both socially and economically. As to Chinese, I would favour almost total exclusion. I believe, judging from my experience in England and here, that if there was an exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese a large amount of cheap white labour would flow in gradually, sufficient to meet all requirements. I believe the immigration of white labourers has been almost absolutely prevented from entering by the presence here of Japanese and Chinese. I have been trying for two days to get employment for an English labourer, temperate and willing to work, who has been in Canada for some years and knows the country and its ways, and I find it impossible to obtain him a position, either on farms near here or in the city itself. I have applied to leading farmers and I find Japanese working on farms and superceding white labour. I correspond with some leading English papers on Canadian matters and I find it impossible to recommend ordinary British labourers to emigrate under existing circumstances. The only class I could conscientiously recommend as a rule is mining labour, as to which I have been able to say that there is a moderate opportunity for a limited number of really skilled and temperate men. In the absence of Chinese and Japanese, I am persuaded thay there are districts around here, and islands, and gulf islands, which will afford admirable opportunity for a hardy stock of British and other European settlers. I allude particularly to men who gain part of their living on homesteads by gardening and agriculture, and part of their living on the adjacent sea or river. There are many such men who, under ordinary conditions, would emigrate to the Province from seaboard districts in Scotland, in Ireland, the Isle of Man, and points on the north coast of England, and in some of these locations the population is congested—to a district like this where the climate is like the British Isles—and they would not have to change very greatly their mode of life. I object to the Chinese. First, because they exclude white settlement, which we need in this country; and, secondly, they spend little, so that the wage fund is a drain, as it does not freely circulate like others. I have no prejudice as to colour or race, but socially and economically I look upon their presence as a detriment to a British Province. I think the Japanese will settle the Chinese question because they will drive out the Chinese. The Japanese are infinitely more adapted to cut out white labour. The limitation I would suggest would be based on our population—say three per thousand of our population, of Japanese. As to the Chinese, an increased poll tax to $500 and a treaty, if obtainable. Q. Do you think oriental immigration amounts to anything in comparison with the interests underlying the different industries here ? A. I think the country would have been better off with from twenty to twenty-five thousand white settlers here in place of the Chinese and Japanese. Undoubtedly they have developed a large number of subsidiary industries, but I say they are not desirable, and that the more desirable class would be settlers having little holdings of their own, and gaining a little help by the fishing. I think the larger industries have been a little handicapped here. They have not been sufficiently independent. They have been so largely in the hands of the financial corporations and depended on them for assistance that their operations have been cramped. That has had something to do with the cramping of the large industries. The resident capital of British Columbia is very small indeed. I doubt if we have three millionaires in the country. I take it that it is important that we should have resident capital here. Two-thirds of the capital is from the East or from Britain, and interest has to be paid on that. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 53 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Are the conditions improving ?—A. I do not think the general conditions are developing very steadily. Mining is developing, but the struggle for life is keener than it was in many places ten years ago. Q. How many white men have been displaced in your municipahty by Chinese or Japanese ?—A. I think probably fifty or sixty. Q. Are those Chinese or Japanese taxpayers ?—A. Only one or two, if any. Q. Has the presence of the Chinese a tendency to discourage them from clearing the land ?—A. It certainly does discourage them, and it cripples them finacially as well. Several of- them have to employ Chinese because of financial difficulties. . You have to consider all the conditions. A labourer receiving $2 a day here is not in as good a position as a labourer who receives five shillings a day in England, but an English labourer could get along nicely here on $2 a day. Q. How long is it since those conditions were introduced as to small holdings?— A. Possibly four or five years. Q. Was there some wild land tax to large holders ?—A. Yes, we have an extra tax on wild lands. It approaches twenty mills on the dollar. The purpose of that is to break up the large holdings or to induce the owners to sell. We had large quantities of land allowed to remain unused for years, for which we were obtaining practically no revenue, land mainly owned by absentees, and we tax that now so as to induce the absentee owners to sell, so that small holdings can be had for all our people. Q. Was that by municipal taxation or Government taxation ?—A. Ours is municipal taxation. It has been in effect ever since we have been in the municipahty, ten years. I think a difference was brought about by legislation some years before that; I think, speaking from memory, that one has been in force twelve years. Q. That would interfere to a certain extent with those who have invested large sums of money in lands ?—A. It might press hard on investors, but it is forced on us. There is no market for wild land now. Q. You acted on the principle, if capital was not willing to open up any of the large holdings, then the capitalists would be willing to slump the land on the market ? —A. After paying taxes for so many years they come to the conclusion that the growth of the country was not sufficient to make them a return for the money invested. The trouble is we have so few buyers ; it is a difficult problem indeed to know what to do with the wild land around us. Q. Those people who invested are not interested in inducing more capital to come in ?—A. It is a very awkward position, and many outside investors no doubt suffer from such a state of things. In England, if land is vacant there is no tax ; but when they found vacant land here and found that it was taxed they were willing to dispose of it at a reasonable figure, so that it might be divided up'in small holdings. A good deal has been said about unearned increment, but I think there is very little unearned increment outside of the city. I rather think it is the other way. Practically I think our system is a proper one, and leads to the development of the country and of the settlement of the country by good settlers on small holdings of from five to twenty acres. That I look forward to as the ultimate solution of this question, but it will take some time because' the oriental will not help a great deal in that way. Q. When you speak of the effect of taxation being that capital does not come in any more, what do you mean ?—A. Well, I think Mr. Foley was asking whether capital would come in to develop wild lands. Q. When capitalists purchase wild lands the capital was simply left there ?—A. They had to leave it there. The only good effect of it was that the capital got into the hands of the people of the country. .... The revenue of the country was certainly less because of those large holdings. The interest of the country was practically a sacrifice in the giving away of such large tracts of land to large holders Q. Do you think it would be a great advantage to have small holdings in the neighbourhood of the fisheries ?—A. Yes, I think it would be a great advantage to have small holdings, especially in the neighborhood of the towns and cities. Q. Would you restrict it to less than eighty acres ?—A. The Government policy should be directed in every way to encourage the occupation of small holdings near 54 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION I 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the cities. There are places where larger areas would be necessary, such as in the Okanagan Territory and others. Near the city I should say the holdings should vary in size from five to twenty acres. I know that in Burnaby holdings of two and a half acres do very well. The owner is near town and has work in town. Burnaby is better for truck raising and market gardening. At very little expense and with very little expenditure of labour at odd times the holder of two and a half acres in Burnaby who can secure labour in the city gets along very well. I think that you may fairly say that there are twenty-five piggeries in Burnaby, that there are twenty-five people engaged in that industry. These men are not market gardeners, but hog raisers and they do very well. James Thomas Smith says : I am a farmer, six miles from Vancouver; farming all my life. Came from New Brunswick. Here fourteen years. Have 170 acres— Ninety cleared. We have cleared another farm—some heavy and some light. It cost from $5 to $100 an acre to clear. The Chinese are doing us out of our market. Their method differs from ours. They have started in the dairy business now. It has been getting worse every year. We can get white labour as cheap. It would be a long way cheaper by hiring white men because they can do more work. I am speaking from experience. The Chinese don't buy our produce. They live on rice from China, eggs from China rolled up in clay, China oil, etc. A beast died in the prairie, and they got her and ate her. I had a sick cow. The calf died and we killed the cow. A Chinaman wanted the cow to eat. I buried her. I considered the cow unfit for hogs or chickens. They live in small houses and overcrowd. I have counted 55 Chinamen in a small shanty, 15 by 30 feet, and the upstairs not high enough for them to stand up. They never have the doors or windows open. They use the house for a store, a gambling house, liquour and opium. This was within a few hundred yards of my own house. We did some ditching, partly by Chinese and partly white men. Ditching is let at 10 cents a rod to Chinese. I would rather pay 15 cents to white men. We employ white men this year. Sometimes the white men are not around, -A white man can do more than Chinese. He will do three times as much. I have been all over the country, and wherever I have been are Chinese gardeners, not many Chinese yet raising hay, but they are going into it. Our taxes amount to $200 a year. Other farmers' views are the same as my own. There is a Farmers' Institute. We build levees. Formerly we employed Chinese; now we find whites just as cheap. Chinese offered me $20 an acre for a year for sixty acres, but I would not let them have it. I would have to pay the taxes. I think the land was worth in the market $200 an acre. Except it is suitable for selling off in small lots it would not bring so much. If it is on the river in a good situation, near to Vancouver, it would sell well, but my land is not worth $200 an acre. I paid for the first seventy $70 an acre.. The land adjoining that is not cleared yet. I was offered $45 an acre for it. The situation makes a great deal of difference. For instance, my brother-in-law bought 160 acres last fall from Judge Crease's land; it was not wild, but uncultivated. It was out in the centre of the island. Part of it runs into the bog ; it is not good land. Land under cultivation runs all the way from $40. Good land is worth as much now as it was three years ago, but not unless suitable for selling, off in small lots. I bought my farm, 170 acres, three or four years ago. I paid about $75 for a piece of it, 120 acres, and the balance, wioh buildings on, $200 an acre. I grow principally hay, oats, wheat and turnips. Last year I took off about one hundred tons of hay. Sold some for $10 a ton and some for $12 a ton, delivered in town. Sold about thirty-five tons. Sold about twenty tons of oats at $24 or $25 a ton, delivered in town. Sold no barley. Sold two tons of wheat at $30 a ton. Sold three thousand pounds of butter at 30 cents, and a little sold for 35 cents. Made about $50 out of eggs. In a fair year we have to sell at lower prices. We did not have enough to pay our debts in town. I know we would get better prices if the Chinese and Japanese were not here. On an average they pay $8, $12, and $15 an acre for extra good land. They may pay $20 an acre. The Chinese took a lease for ninety-nine years. He is paying $10 an acre. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 55 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 They encroach upon the farmer in wood cutting. About four years ago we had about twenty acres of heavy wood cut and we employed a white man to cut out the wood. We got it out at a very small figure. We always took out at least one hundred cords of wood in a year, and sometimes more; but now, owing to Chinese and Japanese supplying the market with wood, we have a lot of it on our hands yet, because we cannot sell it to clear ourselves. We cannot compete with them in selling wood, even when the wood is cut off our own lands. The consensus of opinion among the farmers is against granting them the franchise. Q. Do you think if those here secured the franchise it is likely to lead to trouble ? —A. It is likely to lead to rebellion. If we had white labour in the canneries they could help on the farm as well. JSone of the Chinese have their families except one on Lulu Island and one on the mainland. A Chinaman told me he had four hundred tons of potatoes. William Daniels, a farmer, said : Have lived twenty-five years in South Vancouver. I own sixty-seven and a half acres. There were twenty acres cleared. I raised hay, potatoes, turnips, cabbage, and sold in Vancouver. I rent forty acres to a Chinaman now, and get $415 cash for it, annually. He raises everything in the shape of vegetables. I could not compete. Most of the land where I am has been cleared by the Chinese. I think they are very good to clear land. They have a good deal leased around there. It costs $150 an acre to clear land. I think* I paid, in addition, $700 to ditch twenty- eight chains and put in flood-boxes ; that is all on the main dyke. I don't know if it would cost more if no Chinamen were here. The number of Chinese farmers is increasing lately. There are more leases. Farms, are now rented. This Chinaman lives m my house, 16 by 22 feet; sometimes he has six, twelve or fifteen Chinamen with him. They eat rice, potatoes, meat. The Chinese are good tenants. They cultivate the land well. They can get more off the lands than I do. I could get my son-in-law to work the place if there were no Chinese. I cleared twenty acres and they cleared twenty acres. Japs are not as good as Chinese. I had them offer to work at $5 a month. I believe the Jap is more dangerous than the Chinese. There were no Chinamen here when I cleared my twenty acres. I could not afford to pay a white man to clear land. It is dirty work and you could not get a white man to do it unless you pay him an outrageous wage. The last twenty-eight acres cost me about one-half the ranch to do the clearing of it My wife and I did the clearing* I had to seU half the ranch to keep us going. According to the way Chinese live, they live better than I do. They have got plenty of everything in the way of living, as a Chinaman does. The evidence of Edward Musgrave probably gives the clearest statement of the views of those who do not believe in restriction. A summary of his evidence as taken down by the chairman is therefore given at length. He says: I reside in the Cowichan district. I am farming at present, and have been for sixteen years, there and ' on Salt Spring Island. I employ Chinese the whole time; one domestic and one or two outside and one white man. I pay the Chinese domestic $25 a month and the outside men $20 to $25, and by the day at $1 a day. They board themselves. I pay the white man from $30 to $40 a month and he boards himself. I find the Chinese good servants. The white man is physically stronger. It is not difficult to get white labour at that price. The Chinese are not largely employed by farmers. I don't think the numbers employed are increasing. They live as a distinct race. I should not think it desirable if they did assimilate. I should be sorry to see them settle here and bring their families here. I should much prefer to see our own people. The reason is very obvious. I have no desire to see them fill positions of unskilled labour. I am not makmg a living out of farming If I had to make a living I could not pay white labour, and it is doubtful if I could pay Chinese. I should have to fall back on Japanese. The profits of farming are not sufficiently high to pay the ordinary rate of wages. The farmers who are doing well do the work themselves. I think it beneficial for further unmigration of the coolie class. Wages are and have been abnormally high. Very many industries have been helped by coolie immigration. They don't compete with the mechanical class and they supply cheaper labour. Under present circumstances I would have no restrictions at all If I did restrict I would do it in a different way. I consider the present restriction 56 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 is a bad and dishonest system. Xt does not reach the object aimed at. It merely makes the expense of Chinamen entering the country greater. It merely becomes a question of whether it will pay him. It keeps some out. The ordinary Chinese can not afford to pay. He borrows from some company and has to repay with exorbitant interest. I think it dishonest to tax a man to come in and tax him when here and then refuse to allow him to be employed on Government work. I think it quite wrong. If admissible it ought to be total exclusion. It would be a more honest system, I should say by treaty with China. In the present state of affairs it is entirely against our treaty obligations. I have very little experience with the Japanese. A large and growing number of Japanese are employed in our district. They have been of immense benefit to the province, I think. The common wage of a Japanese at present is small; $10 a month and a ration of rice and potatoes, but after they have been here they begin to increase their demand and will work very little under a Chinaman. I see no necessity for restriction, as far as we have gone. If many came then I would press the Home Government to limit the number. It is a very difficult question to decide upon. I may say that the Chinese are only employed in certain work. They are not good hands with animals, ploughing, etc. I have been eight years sheep farming on the Salt Springs • Island. I think it necessary to have cheap labour to clear the lands. In regulating the price of our products, the imports are of the greatest importance. Very little agricultural produce is raised in the province. The expense of clearing is enormous. It won't pay to do it. I doubt if a man could clear the land and support himself unless he got outside work. Very few can afford to employ even Japs. The average bush lands cost to clear, employing partly Chinese and white labour, from $100 to $200 an acre. The man who clears and sells never gets his money out of it. No doubt it could be cleared in a scientific way much cheaper, but those who go into the business cannot afford to employ up-to-date machinery and tools. I had knowledge of farming in Scotland, New Zealand, South Australia and South America. In New Zealand I was in sheep farming. I pay my white man by the year. No trouble to find white labour at that price. I consider $1.50 a day all the year round is a higher price than $2 for ordinary job. I should think about $2 is the ordinary wages. I don't think an increased white population here would increase land values; it might. Can't say how much. A larger population would increase the demand for my farm produce. I don't think farming will ever become a large industry on this Island. I doubt even if © © J you can clear land with Japanese labour at a profit. It is a question whether you have labour at a reasonable rate, or at an abnormal rate. I think a municipality should get their labour done as cheaply as possible, without considering any of these labour questions. I think a government ought in every fair way to foster their own people. In my opinion this outcry about Chinese is a hollow mockery7 I don't quarrel with white labour. I have had in my employment almost every European nationality. There is a certain amount of humbug. A white man will refuse to work with a Chinaman, but he will take a contract and hire Chinaman and work with them, the labourers doing what is quite natural. New Zealand has developed much more rapidly, but you cannot compare the two ; the one was covered with forests; the other was open land ; and a different climate as well. I don't think farmers could get on without Chinese. I am sorry to say that the farms about here, most of them, are mortgaged, for the purpose of raising money to clear them, and the farmers literally cannot afford to pay for Chinese, Japanese, or white labour. I have had forty years' experience ou1> of England. The Chinese compare favourably with certain classes of labour. Of all the different nationalities I have employed, I have always found our countrymen the most difficult to deal with, owing to their independence of character, and should not like to see them have less. The -Chinese are docile, but they won't stand abuse and ill- treatm'ent, and stay with you. You can trust them to work and they are very grateful for good treatment. I have found them very honest. We don't lock up against them. The Chinese seem very clean in their persons, but they have np idea of sanitary arrangement. My Chinese is as clean in his room as I am in my own, and so is the outside Chinaman, but they will throw everything outside. They are unsanitary. I don't want servile people to deal with. I don't think Chinese are servile. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 57 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Captain Edward Berkley says: I reside in Westhohn on the E. &, N. railroad, 46 miles from Victoria. I am a retired captain in the Royal Navy. Have a ranch ; for several years past my business has been ranching and clearing land. Am postmaster and magistrate. I very seldom employ Chinese. Chinese are not employed on ranches. I have had Chinese for cooks several years ago. The average wages is $15 a month and food. Cheap labour, regardless of colour, I say. Anyone to help the farmer make money by. I have 225 acres and my son 200 acres. My son's property is nearly cleared. Dairy, grain and fruit farm. I commenced with the Japs. I chopped and he piled it. It is a grass run. Have fifteen cows and one hundred sheep. I have been seven years there. I gave $5,000 for 265 acres. Cheap labour is necessary. I should not like to see coolie labour except as an exigency. I have seen twelve Chinese in a house and they were all friendly; outside dirty. The average Jap will do as much as a white man except at chopping. I am extremely favourable to white labour but cannot afford to pay for it. There is only one white labourer in the whole district. There are none to be had. What we want is more people to cultivate the soil; to come ih with a little capital. A Jap is more valuable about a farm than a white man because he will do all the small chores and not be offended. We cannot raise produce just now. Every one of the farmers is trying to do the work of three men. It is not for the want of will that more is not produced ; it is from the want of power. The small rancher can go out and get $2 per day and he can have a Chinaman to do all the chores around the place at fifty cents per day. I am not in favour of Chinese in this country ; God forbid I should be in favour of anything of the kind; but he is required temporarily; he is far more decent than he is given credit. Michael Finerty, farmer, lived four and a half miles from Victoria, says : I have a farm. I learned my trade as gardener and stone mason in Ireland. I came here in 1862. I don't follow my trade. I had to give up gardening. We used to sell our produce to green grocers. We would make $8, $9, $10, $20 a day. All were well satisfied. We had cheap labour in those days, Indians. They were good workers, and after a time the Chinamen came and brought the smallpox and 5,000 Indians died of it. The Chinese live cheaper. Take their stuff around upon a pole and basket; they sell much cheaper. I could not compete. I followed it five or six years. All white men went out of the business. They confine themselves to market gardening. They work for farmers. A good white man could do as much as two or three Chinese. I don't think the Chinese or Japs are necessary for the farmer. My farm is 160 acres. None of my neighbours are in favour of Chinese at all. They expect to live on the white race. I don't agree with the last witness. The race we want is a white race that will be permanent and help build up the country. All we made we invested in property and make a good home for ourselves. Samuel M. Robins, of Nanaimo, superintendent of the New Vancouver Coal Com^ pany, says : At this moment we have a larger number of Chinese than usual clearing land, namely, fifty-seven. I am rushing the clearing to get the spring crops in. Then they will be dropped in large numbers. We have eight CJhinese as farm hands proper. I think the immigration of Chinese into this province should be entirely stopped, either by prohibition or a prohibitive head tax. I have never engaged Japanese in clearing land. When I speak of one I refer to the other. The company has cleared about 700 acres by Chinese labour, whilst the leaseholders under the company have cleared mostly by Chinese labour, 600 or 700 acres more. I say mostly, because a good many have done their own clearing, or engaged whites to clear, even if it cost three times what it would cost with Chinese. Owing to the apparent superabundance of Chinese labourers, my opinion is that none of the existing industries in the province would suffer by prohibiting Chinese immigration. I don't think it would be wise to put off the time for excluding them. In fact, I think if it be an evil the sooner it is checked before it grows to unmanageable dimension the better. The results of farming have varied so every few years that I can hardly say whether it is possible to clear land at wages paid to white labour and make a profit out of it as a farming proposition. I believe farming in the last few years carried on scientifically 58 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 would be quite possible by white men, but a few years back it would not have been possible. Alfred L. Hunt, an Englishman, but who has lived some years in the States, says •- I am a farmer. Resided in British Columbia a year and a half. I find no opening here in my line of business. The Chinese are in market gardening. r A man would stand no chance for the Chinese peddling. A farmer could not do this. Edmond Arthur Atkins, Reeve of Coquitlan, says: I have resided there off and on since 1860. Engaged in farming for twenty years. I worked my own farm of from thirty to forty acres. We want to have not so many Chinese and Japanese, but do not exclude them altogether, because if we do we are going to get left. I have a Japanese now at $15 a month. There are eighteen voters residing in the municipality. I was foreman in Moody & Company's sawmill. I think $100 ought to keep them out pretty nearly. A man cannot work for Jap's wages and keep a family. I paid a man $45 a month and his board, and when Caledonia Day came along he left me with twenty tons of hay to draw in. I have been left that way several times. You cannot depend on them. It is just this way, if we go to work and get all the Chinese and Japanese out of the country it will raise the wages to such an extent that the farmers cannot possibly live. You see our ranches in this country have all to be cleared up. If we have to pay $2 a day, which is the wages for white labour to-day, we cannot possibly make enough off the land to pay any such wages. I do not do anything in market gardening. I am into mixed farming, supplying milk to the creamery and raising hogs and cattle. I have paid a white man $30 a month and his board. I only asked him to work from seven in the morning until six at night. He knew more than I did about the ranches, and we had a few words, and he left right away, so I had to go and hire a Japanese to do the work, and I had to do some of the work myself. There are something over 3,200 acres in Pitt Meadows cleared. My section of the country is not well settled. It is held mostly by speculators. They wont sell for a price that settlers can pay. I think the Lower Fraser is badly fixed with the same disease. The orientals have helped some of us. High labour has not had anything to do with it not being settled. It is the speculators. John Armstrong, for twenty-two years a farmer in Surrey, several years councillor,, and five years reeve, says : The general view is that heretofore they have not been a. great detriment to the farmer, but in the future almost absolute restriction is advisable. When I look for a man they ask if there are Chinese and Japanese in the municipality. If my neighbour employs a Jap at $10 I can't compete at $25 or $30 a month. The sentiment is against any more coming in, and that applies as much to Japanese as to Chinese. That is my own view and what I know to be their view. The ambition of Chinese is to make money and send it away. There is probably a thousand of population in our municipahty, and all are farmers with the exception of a logging camp that employs, say, a hundred men. We have farmers that grow from one hundred and fifty to two hundred tons of grain. The municipal vote is about two hundred, and mostly the heads of families; counting unregistered votes there are probably in the municipality, say, 275 heads of families. There are sixty or eighty Chinese and Japs in the municipality, two-thirds Chinese. j They dig ditches and pile brush. The Chinese prevent the settlers coming in. I had a Jap for two or three months once. I employ white labour. I pay $25 a month,- bed, board and washing. Years ago we paid from $30 to $35 a month ; sometimes I give less. Eleven years ago I let a job to a Chinaman to clear twenty acres. Others get some slashing and ditching done, not heavy clearing. The heavy clearing is generally done by white men. Heretofore the Chinese have done a good deal of the slashing work, but for myself I got white men to do it the same as the Chinese do, by contract at so much an acre. I give the preference to white men. Ditching is a big item on a farm. Often a ditch costs more than to clear the land. Chinese have done a good deal of ditching in the delta lands, but in clay lands such as mine is, it is too hard for the Chinese. I think the farmers could have got along without the orientals to help them, and the final result would have been better than it is. I have turned away Chinese and Japanese who have offered to work for six months for $15, and some for less than that. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 59 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Do you think if the orientals were not here you would get lots of white labour ? A. Well, it would be better even if we had to pay a little more for it. In our municipality there is a great deal of wild land and white labour would settle it. White settlers could work for six months on their land trying to clear it a little, and the other part of the year they would work out for those who were able to hire them. White settlers coining in here would be good workers and work more steady than the transient men we have here now, because they would have homes and little holdings of their own. A man wishing to settle down on a piece of land and make a little money on the side would have no difficulty in getting a job. A man of the kind offering his services, say at $25 a month and his board, would have no difficulty in getting a job if he were a likely looking man. Q. The inducements to go farming appear to be rather strong ; how do you account for it that settlement has been so tardy ?—A. I account for it on account of the hard job to clear the land. It is hard for a poor man to start in. Alder bottom lands are all taken up, but they are not worked. I account for it in this way : the land has got into the hands of Loan Companies, and they are holding them too high for people to go on and cultivate them. Q. Do you think the presence of the orientals in the Province places any impediment in the way of those lands being settled %—A. I think they do hinder immigration to a certain extent, of white people. I think the orientals are an obstacle in the way of further immigration of white people, and the Loan Companies are an obstacle in the way of bringing land under cultivation. Q. I should like to have your opinion as to one statement you made ; that they have not been a great detriment to you, but that almost absolute restriction would be advisable. What do vou mean ?—A. Well, that they should not be allowed to come in more than fifty or one"'hundred in a year. I think that the facility for white labour coming in here is better than it was some years ago, and I believe if the Chinese and Japanese were stopped coming in here and white men were given to understand that there was an opening for them here, the number of white men coming here would largely increase, and we would have a good class of settlers here to develop the country, if the land now held by speculators were offered at reasonable rates to actual settlers with a little capital of their own. Q. Well do you speak for the country and the industries in it in making that statement ? A. I am speaking from my observation, and as the result of my experience of some years' residence in the country, but I am speaking more for the farming community with whom I am more intimately associated, and I am certain a good many of them employ cheap labour, Chinese and Japanese labour now, because they cannot get other labour suitable. Q. You hire men for six months. How would they find employment the other six months ?—A. In some cases they settle on adjoining lands, and when I do not employ them they work on their own lands. It is an advantage in that way to have white men instead of Chinese. Q. In your judgment do you think the country needs a class of men like that more than anything else in order that the lands of the country may be closely settled ?—A. Yes, certainly, and then we would have better roads, and we would have schools and churches, and the nearer you are to schools and churches the quicker the development and settlement of the country will go on. I think this question is important from a national and family point of view rather than from a business point of view. I think there is a danger of them becoming a menace from a moral and national point of view. If they are allowed to come in at $200 or $300, in five years there will be five times more than now. I don't think $50 or $100 cuts any great figure. I think they should not be allowed to come at all. it were known that they were not coming in, many more whites would come m. If there is any change made to prevent Chinese and Japanese or any other nationality coming in here, very likely the farmers would be the last to feel it. A great many of them have sufficient land cleared and can do with less work. 60 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Harry Nelson Rich, of Ladners Landing on the Fraser River, says : I am managing Mr. McNeeley's large store and his farms. I am executor of the estate. His estate has 1,000 acres of land here, of which 700 are under cultivation. We raise hay, cattle and supply dairy produce for the market. The land is about an average of the land in the vicinity. Land here is rented on shares, the tenant paying one-third to the landlord. The average crop of hay is two tons of timothy per acre; sometimes it will go four and five tons per acre, but that is exceptional. Oats from a ton to a ton and a-half an acre. Hay is worth $8 a ton. Oats are worth $32.50 to $35 a ton, of 2,000 pounds. Last year oats sold at $25 a ton. Last year we bought them out of the field at $22 to $23. In 1899 they were bought out of the field at $18 a ton. Understand, we all thrash in the field here. The arrangement is for delivery on the wharf, a man can sell © J it for $18 a ton. For the last four or five years we have done the buying for Brackman, Kerr & Co. We bought from seventy to eighty thousand sacks of oats and imported one hundred and twenty-five thousand sacks for our own use to sell to the ranchers. I do not know of an instance of first-class land being leased, except to Chinese, who pay about $20 an acre ; that would be the best. I have known a white man to pay $15 an acre for one straight field, but a great part of the ranching here is done on shares, the landlord getting one-third of the crop. I am president of the Creamery Company. Last year we sold $22,000 worth of butter at an average of 28J cents a pound. Fruit does not form an industry here. There are small fruits raised, such as black and red currants and the like, but not many are sold. On a big farm we employ four white men at from $20 to $30 a month and board. In harvest time of course we pay more. We have three Chinese there now. It will average about three the year round in connection with the farm. We have Chinese there doing all the ditching and clearing. We pay from $18 to $20 a month and they board themselves. They do ditching, milking and anything you want done. To-day (May 20th) a good many have left Ladner and gone to the canneries. The proportion of white labour and Chinese labour on other big farms I should say is about the same; on the Patterson farm about the same, either Chinese or Japanese. The small farms the people work themselves. This farming section of Ladner is about eleven miles one way and seven and a half miles the other; that is south of the river, the delta municipahty in fact. There are some lands here as good as any we have. Q. What proportion of those lands may be considered as big farms ?—A. There is the Pemberton, the Guichon and the Wellington farm, and the farm of William Ladner, and that of Thomas E. Ladner, the British Columbia Land and Investment Company, T. W. Patterson, McKee's farm, Christopher Brown, W. Coudy, H. D. Benson, the Kirtland estate and H. Trim. These all Own from three, hundred acres up and there may be one or two others. The rest of the land is divided into small holdings. The average holding of the small owners, most of them have 160 acres. They are bringing it under cultivation all the time more and more. I think the number of Chinese would average three on the big farms. There is a big lot of them. Q. Do you find the Chinese as advantageous as white people on a farm ?—A. Very few of them can plough. They are good for choring around. They do milking and other work around. If you want the Chinese to work you have to keep following them up, where if you set a white man at a job they go on with it without you being present, but I do not know what you can do without them. Some of the Chinese go fishing. I am trying to hold back the wages of the Chinese just now to keep them at work. There are very few white fishermen working on farms. Q. What do they do after the fishing is over ?—A. Lying around, a great many of them doing little, if anything. About fifteen men work here in the saw mill; I do not know how many Chinese are employed there. I have been here since 1880, and sixteen years in connection with the present business. I was in the cannery business before that. We never think of getting anyone else but a Chinaman for draining and ditching. It has been that way ever since I came here. We suppose if a Chinanian has taken a contract he is making $1 a day. I do not think I ever knew of a white man taking a ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 61 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 contract for digging or ditching in this municipality. Farmers do ditching and draining themselves to a very small extent. The land here was reclaimed in the first instance by digging and ditching^y Chinese since I came here. Wet weather generally commences in the fall, about October: It is very seldom we have a wet hay seeding, only one in twenty years; only one or two bad harvests. Our harvest is two weeks' earlier on account of the land being reclaimed. Some of the land has been bought for fishermen and men around the canneries. I suppose about eight fishermen and four other men have bought land about Pemberton. It is available at $90 an acre. The same land would rent for $5 or $6 an acre. I think a man could pay that and make a living off it. The land they pay $90 an acre for is dyked and drained. No roots to be cleared off. It is worth from $70 to $80 an acre. Pemberton is the only man who has cut the land up into small lots. Hay sometimes goes up to $10 a ton. Swedes were employed on the dykes in 1895. It was mostly done by a contractor, by Swedes. Q. What do you considerxyou would be justified in paying the white man as a farmhand compared with the Chinese ?—A. I would not hire a Chinese to run the plough. Q. Well, to do the work the Chinese work at?—A. I would pay a white man about one-third more than I would a Chinaman. Q. Could ranching be done here by white labour at a profit at present prices ?—A. I do not think so. It is not obtainable. If it could be obtained I would rather have white labour. In heavy work on land I do not think the Japanese would earn more than their grub. Q. Has anyone ever made an attempt to break land into small holdings and to dispose of it to fishermen ?—A. Only Mr. Pemberton. Q. How has it succeeded ?—A. Very well. I think such a system would be very successful. Of course it has to be land near the river, of holdings from two and a half to five acres. Oats would average $25 a ton for the last five years. I have known oats to sell some years down to $15 a ton. Potatoes are very scarce to-day. They are worth $25 a ton. They average eight tons to the acre. I have known twenty-five tons off an acre. I could not say if we could supply the market here without importing, if the land on the river was brought under cultivation. A friend of mine brought down from Edmonton this year three thousand tons of oats; most of it went north. I do not know if Edmonton affects our market here. The United States does not now affect the oat market. The hay from the Yukon comes east of the Cascade ; some was bought in British Columbia this year and sent north. Our market is mostly local. There is no export market here. We have no need for an export market here yet. A. S. Emory, of Victoria, carpenter and joiner, says : I work for wages, $3 for house work and $3.50 for shifts work. I came from Manchester, England. I resided on the west coast of Vancouver Island for a little time. I took up land there with the intention of farming. If I could have sold my products at a reasonable figure the chances are I would have remained on the farm. The field was too limited at that time, for one reason, and another reason was the Chinese competition. I only took up five acres of land, about fifty miles from Victoria. I grew potatoes and some oats for cattle. The potatoes were what I had for sale. I could not get more than $7.50 a ton for them after paying freight and wharfage. I think the proper way would be for the government to open up certain districts and clear the land, then they could get men to take up the land. They could give employment by this means to a great many white labourers who, with the aid of machinery, would clear the land to advantage. If the development of the country were encouraged this way a great many people would go out to farm, and there would be advantage all round. In this a government can do such work to better advantage than individuals can. A man clearing land gets a lot of valuable timber. If properly handled it might pay for the clearing of the land. Men have not capital enough to handle it, and have it properly marketed. The government could manufacture it for so much and make a clear profit. 62 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 William John Taylor, barrister, who has a large stock farm near Victoria, says : The Chinese have cleared a good bit of land on the island. I think it would have been cleared by white men if the Chinese were not here. It costs more to clear heavy timber land than you can buy cleared land for. It must be cleared by machinery. It is not expensive ; $150 would pay for machinery. Here it costs more to clear an acre of timber land than it costs to clear fifty acres in the North-west Territories. I think the agriculture resources of British Columbia are underestimated, though better wheat and oats are grown in the North-west. There are vast parts of British Columbia that require no clearing. If we had twenty thousand whites instead of Chinese it would be better for the country. I think their presence only affects the land indirectly. Everything that affects the commercial well-being of the province is a detriment, and I think the presence of Chinese and Japanese has that effect, and therefore indirectly it affects the value of land. I think whites could clear land as well as Japs and Chinese, and at about the same cost. Dyking could be done better by whites than by Japs and CJhinese. Five years ago we imported one million, nine hundred thousand dollars worth of farm products through Victoria, exclusive of what could not be grown in the province. Joseph Hunter, General Superintendent of the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway, says : Chinese and Japansse have cleared a good deal of land along the line of the railway. I think I would prefer to have a white man at $2 a day, clearing land, as far as the simple question of being profitable is concerned. Land clearing ought to be done by white men, and better done by them ; it depends on the class of work ; the Chinaman as a general rule is a very poor axeman. You can get Chinese to do part of the clearing of the land cheaper than the white man, and they will do it as well too, but there are numbers of them who lose money on their contracts as well as white men. As far as taking up the company's land is concerned, the displacement of Chinese in our employ in favour of white men, would make no difference at all. Our white employees do not seem to care about taking up land; I think they rather like to stay in town. AMERICAN OPINION. Walter J. Honeyman, dealer in cannery and fishery supplies, of Portland, Oregon, says : The Exclusion Act caused great inconvenience. We would never have had half the land cleared without the Chinese. The Chinese work in canneries now. It is too expensive to clear land now. There are large numbers of settlers coming in now and settling on the land in the State. They look around and then they clear up a little of the land. Most of them settle on cleared land, on prairie land. Life is too short to go in and cut a farm out of the forest. I never had any land cleared, and never went into the question at all. I have had no experience in that. Most of the clearing that is done has been done by the Chinese in past years. A. A. Bailey, secretary of the Federated Trades, Portland, Oregon, says : The enforcement of the Exclusion Act did not cause any complaint. There was plenty of white labour. It cost a little more, but it was better work. The men who had gone on the lands in the States of Washington and Oregon, as a rule, to make a living, clear up the land themselves. They have no money to spend on hiring people to clear the land. They come here to settle and make homes for themselves, and they get along nicely without either the Chinese or Japanese. A very small percentage of the lands under cultivation in this State has been cleared by Chinese. If the Chinese have done any clearing it is principally along the line of the railways. That is not in the way of farms. Nearly all the settlements have been made by white men. The present condition of the farming industry in this State does not owe its progress to the presence and work of the Chinese. Very few Chinese have cleared any lands for settlement in Oregon. F. V. Meyers, Commissioner of the State Bureau of Labour Statistics, San Francisco, California, says : The Chinese were never engaged enough in farming in California to make them a factor to be considered. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 63 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 H. S. Rowe, Mayor of Portland, Oregon, says : I do not think the Chinese helped very much to develop our industries. Of course farming is an extensive industry, and in various ways the Chinese were employed to clear up land. They set to work to clear up land, but that land could have been cleared up by cheap white labour as well as it is cleared up now. There is an extensive territory fit for farming and very few people occupying it. We do not want Chinese or Japanese to occupy our farming lands. What we want is Europeans, white people, to settle up the country and develop our resources. The Chinese cannot do that. The Chinese are not used much in growing © © fruit. The fruit industry of California might not have been developed as far as it has been without the aid of the Chinese. They are not now employed to any considerable extent upon farms. The area of land reclaimed by the dyking works along the Fraser River by the Government of British Columbia is as follows:— Chilhwack 19,811-40 acres. Matsqui 10,062-15 Maple Ridge 8,448-83 Coquitlan 3,290-96 Pitt Meadows 1 2,299-27 " (C (( (( 43,912-61 The cost of the works is about $750,000. SUMMARY. The Chinese have in the past been employed in clearing land in and near cities and towns, and to a limited extent on farms. The cost of clearing heavy timbered land is such that it cannot be done with profit, even by Chinese labour, for farming purposes. If large areas are to be cleared, explosives and machinery, with white labour, will be found the cheapest. Small holdings may be cleared up by actual settlers who desire to make a home for themselves, provided they can obtain assistance by working at other employments. The delta lands and lands along the Fraser will doubtless be the first to be brought under cultivation to any large extent. The dyking on the delta lands in the early years was done largely by Chinese; of late years, by niachinery. In the Ladner section, which is eleven miles by seven and a half miles in extent, are about fifteen large farms, of three hundred acres or more. The rest of the land is divided into small holdings, which average about one hundred and sixty acres. On one farm of a thousand acres, four white men and three Chinese are employed. This would seem to be about the proportion on the large farms. On the small farms of one hundred and sixty acres, or less, they are not employed. The owners do the work themselves. The CJhinese are not employed in ploughing on the large farms, but do ditching, milking, chores, &c. They are paid from $18 to $20 a month and board themselves. White men are paid $20 a month and board. In one instance land has been divided up into small holdings of from two and a half to five acres, to sell to fishermen at $90 an acre. A white man is regarded as worth one-third more than the Chinaman. It is said white labour is not obtainable; if it could be obtained it would be preferred. The result of the evidence in regard to this all-important question shows a strong consensus of opinion opposed to further immigration of either Chinese or Japanese. Their mode of life and small cost of living make it easy for them to undersell in the markets and leave a good profit. They have no homes to build and keep up, no wife or children to support, and no contribution to churches to make. The cost of their clothes, board and lodging is 64 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 trifling. They live in small shanties and crowd together even worse in the country than in the cities, six to ten and fifteen in a room. White men will not hire where other, or neighbouring, farm hands are Chinese or Japanese. On the other hand, settlement is promoted where farm labourers can take up land; work for six months on their own land, and the other part of the year work for those who are able to hire them on their farms. This is of mutual advantage to the new settlers and those better established. Witnesses emphasized the fact that the more thickly settled a community is the more readily are established schools, Churches and all the conditions of civilized life. The presence of the Chinese to the extent of their numbers retards settlement and promotes isolation, and ^o renders social life difficult or impossible, and the locality an undesirable place to live in;. and a dread of the aggravation of this evil in the future still further discourages settlement. The settler cannot depend solely on the land, but chiefly for some years on what he can earn outside. What then is his position ? He would first and naturally turn to market gardening as incidental to the farm, but here he is met by Chinese, who practically control this important branch of agriculture, first by their cheap labour, and then by the system of peddling their truck in baskets on poles. This has destroyed or prevented markets. (There are no markets in British Columbia, except at New Westminster, although large public market buildings were erected in the cities of Victoria and Vancouver.) Should a white man try to sell from house to house he is met by ' John' at the door. Vegetables required to-day ? No; but when the basket comes the sale is made. The white farmer has been driven from this field. If he has wood upon his land he cannot cut it into cordwood and sell it at a profit. The Chinese and Japanese undersell him ; if he has timber suitable for shingle bolts he is met by the Japanese contractor, with whom it is impossible to compete, for the same reason. His only outlook then will be to get work if possible, and he applies at the sawmill; The Chinese and Japanese are both there, and the latter are increasing in numbers. At the shingle mill the Chinese are mostly employed under a boss Chinaman, who has the contract. Will he send his children to the canneries during the fishing season ? They can only get employment when work cannot be overtaken by the regularly employed Chinese staff. (It may be noted in this connection that this source of employment would necessarily be uncertain as to its duration having regard to the fluctuating demand for labour in this industry.) If he turns to fishing in the summer season, there he finds the Japanese in such numbers that, except in great runs, the individual catch is so small that the profits have been cut down to a mere nothing. Under these circumstances the settler often abandons his holdings, upon which he has spent more or less time and money, and is forced to quit and the mortgagee takes possession; and too often he crosses the line, where there is a Law of Exclusion against the Chinese, where they are not employed in the mills, nor shingle business, nor in the woods, and where, rightly or wrongly, he thinks he has a better chance. This condition of things is becoming worse and worse from year to year, cause and effect act and react on each other, increasing the difficulty. It delays settlement and keeps back the country in every aspect that goes to make a permanent self-supporting and prosperous people. It fills the avenues of labour and so prevents the settler from assisting himself to eke out a living until his lands are cleared. The verdict of the great body of agriculturists is in favour of a high restriction or total exclusion. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 65 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CHAPTER VIII.—MARKET GARDENING. This business, which seems to be peculiarly suited to the Chinese, is in their hands, with trifling exception. There are engaged in market gardening in Victoria 198 Chinese; in Vancouver 134; in New Westminster 70. To give an idea of the extent to which this is carried on by the Chinese, reference may be had to the evidence of Lee Dye, of Victoria. He says : There are twelve market gardeners. I have four gardens, consisting of 193 acres leased land. The lowest rent per acre is $5, and the highest $12.50. I pay taxes. I supply steamboats and wholesale merchants at Vancouver and Victoria. The business was established thirty-two years ago by my father. He put in $4,000 cash, and with the credit it comes to about $10,000. We have four partners and twenty-four men; to be increased to forty-eight men in the spring. My sales amounted last year to $24,185.25. The lowest wages paid a green hand was $12 per month and board and lodging; the highest $25 and board and lodging—average $18 to $19 per month. I have been here seventeen years. My wife went to China five years ago. I have two children ; they are in China. I took them there to be educated. The oldest is ten years and the youngest six years. I expect to go next winter and bring them out. ,1 own property here to the value of about $1,500 or $2,000; my firm to the value of about $30,000. It costs from $90 to $100 an acre to clear the land. If the trees are large it costs from $140 to $150. My land cost from $110 to $120 per acre. The lease is for ten and fifteen years. My lease is three years free of rent and the owner of the land pays the taxes. After three years the rent is about $8 an acre. If it is good land and easy to be cleared, then on an average about the fourth year it would pay my expenses and the seventh year it will pay me back all the labour and the expense besides. I would prefer to own my own land. I would have to pay for borrowed money about eight per cent. This witness had an accurate account of his receipts and expenses, and had conducted his business with much success. Probably he was one of the most successful market gardeners in the Province. He employs exclusively Chinese labour, except occasionally white labour for ploughing. His plant he valued at $15,000, including eighteen horses, seven wagons, &c, &c. He paid for horse feed $1,187, fertilizers $671, horse shoeing $201, repairs $250, harness and repairing $250, seeds, &c, $300, for veterinary surgeon $150. Last year he paid for rent $1,100, and taxes $205. \ He sold of his produce to white people $16,000 worth and to Chinese $8,000 worth. This witness offers the most favourable instance of a successful business man that this class affords. He*can scarcely be called a labouring man, and it may be helpful here to stop for a moment and examine the result, as an illustration of the whole class of Chinese market gardeners. His business is successful; it has been conducted on business lines. He employs a large number of men. He supplies that, which, if not produced in the province, must be imported from the States. Is it not desirable that that class of Chinese at all events should be encouraged ? Sing Chung Yung, of Nanaimo, says : I am a market gardener and work one hundred acres. I have been here twelve years. I brought from China $2,000 (Mexican). My wife and two children are in China. They are eleven and nine years old. I visited China and remained fourteen months. I dress in English clothes all except the queue. I would like to bring my wife and children here. She don't like to come. The people in this country talk so much against Chinese that I do not care to bring them here. I have eight horses, one colt, ploughs—everything. Their value is $4,830, including improvements. Denies that he uses human excrement on the garden. 54—5 h 68 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Statement of the business of Sing Chung Yung for the past year:— EXPENSES. Rent of farm $ ^20 00 Horse feed 1,100 00 Wages paid 2,880 00 Provisions for farm hands 860 00 Repairing of wagons, &c 250 00 Seeds 100 00 School tax 12 00 Post office box and stamps 10 00 Total $5,852 00 Book debts, bad j 500 00 $6,352 00 Total sales $7,500 00 Expenses, &c 6,352 00 $1,148 00 On Kee, of Nanaimo, has one hundred acres, thirty cleared. Has invested $3,520. Has a wife, two daughters and a son in China. The daughters are 21 and 22 years old, respectively, and the boy 15 years old. He also denies that he uses human excrement on the garden. Statement of business of On Kee for the past year :— , EXPENSES. Rent of farm $ 400 00 Horse-shoeing 48 00 Provisions for farm hands 523 00 Horse feed ' 520 00 Repairing wagons, &c , 112 00 Seed 100 00 Wages 1,600 00 Repairing house 300 00 Total $3,603 00 Total sales §., 3,012 00 Loss for last year $ 591 00 Let us follow the evidence a little further. Andrew Strachan, who is engaged in horticulture, says : I had to give up market gardening. I could not sell my produce. The reason was the people buy from the Chinese who peddle their stuff in baskets. I at present cultivate about ten acres, principally fruit. I think there are sixty or seventy basket peddlers in Victoria. The majority of private families buy from basket peddlers. I came here in 1871. There were a great many more white people raising vegetables than now. Ten years ago market gardening was in the hands of the Chinese; it has remained so ever since. Market gardening is entirely in the hands of the Chinese. Twenty Chinese can live as cheaply as a man and his family of five or six. I think twenty Chinamen can live on $40 a month. I engaged a Chinaman for six months. I paid him $18 a month. A bag of rice at $1.75 and 25 cents worth of sugar was his food for a month. I paid a Japanese last year for picking fruit $15 a month. I employed him because I could not get anyone else. I do not usually employ Japanese. If I could ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 67 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 _get white men I would rather pay them $2 a day than pay a Japanese 50 cents a day. White labour is scarce, and the reason that white labour is scarce is that white men cannot compete with the Chinese and Japanese. They cannot exist or live alongside of them. So many people employ what they call cheap labour, they drive the white man out and they have to leave the country. Joseph Shaw said : I was a market gardener in England. I came here six years ago. I came here with the intention of going into that business, but was advised that I could not compete with the Chinese. For that reason I did not engage in the business. A white gardener cannot possibly compete with them; you cannot employ labour and compete with them; and then if you do produce vegetables and get around to the houses in an endeavour to sell them, when vou go to the door the first to answer you would be a Chinese and he at once says, 'not want any.' They make it impossible for a man like myself with a wife and seven children to compete with them at all. They make it impossible for me to carry on a market garden and earn an honest living from that. I cannot compete with them at all. I cannot make a reasonable living and clothe my seven children. The class of stuff they raise would be only classed as second class in the English market. They sell at a low price. I have never seen but very few beds of first class lettuce grown by the Chinese. I remember seeing one good bed of lettuce grown by Chinese at Darcey Island, and I certainly could not have used that myself because of the offensive odour from it. I had to go to the windward side of it. Dr. Duncan was there with me. He was the Medical Health Officer, and he had to go round to the other side to get rid of the smell of the excrement that had been used very largely to force the growth of lettuce. I have a little bit of ground and have gone into hay-making and anything that turns up, and now I am farming in a small way on about twenty acres of land. I do not try to raise vegetables for the market, but I am hoping the time will soon come that I will be able to do so. They do not go into general farming. So far they are not competitors in general farming. I never employed but one Chinaman; that was to cut wood. If I could buy machinery cheaper I could sell cheaper. If I lived in the United ;States I could buy the agriculture machinery at one-half what it costs me here. The manufacturer here is protected by the farm labourers. Henry Atkinson, landscape and market gardener, who has resided in Victoria ten years, says: Market gardening is entirely under their control now in the city. I came here from the Old Country ten years ago with the intention of starting a market garden. I brought* my family out here. I was a market gardener in the Old Country, and I was led to believe that I could get a good business in market gardening here. I was very much disappointed. The difficulties were that the Chinese had practically the monopoly of the business of raising vegetables, and their peddling those vegetables about from door to door was another great difficulty. There were no stores here which you could supply and get cash for your vegetables. It was all truck business, but the great difficulty in the business, which has continued up to the present time, is the Chinese and their peddling vegetables from door to door. We have a white elephant in the shape of a market building here. I know gardeners striving at the present time to sell their produce, going. around to the places trying to get customers, and they do not want it. When a white gardener goes to a house with vegetables he finds a Chinese cook there, and the Chinese cook does not want vegetables raised by the white man. I know the Chinese cook militates against their being able to do business. Vegetables only come from California when vegetables are scarce. In England a great many of the early vegetables come from France and Spain. They come in two or three weeks before the vegetables in England are ready. The Chinese can live on so little that white gardeners cannot possibly compete with them. There is a small commission paid between the Chinese cook and the Chinese peddler. I know from Chinamen who have told me. In England a man may have twenty workmen (landscape gardeners) and may have work for them all the year round, but here you cannot employ one white man because 54—5i 68 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 you cannot keep him at work for a greater part of the year. I have advised all my friends not to come here, because there are no openings here for white men. The lowest wages of labourers in England that I know of in towns is four shillings a day. Wages here $2 to $2.50 per day. The purchasing power of $2 a day here is better than the purchasing power of four shillings a day there, provided the wages were steady, but the trouble is I cannot get beyond six months' work in my business here. There is no market house in Victoria. Vegetables are peddled from house to house in baskets by Chinamen, and as nearly all the cooks and domestics are Chinamen, it may readily be seen why white men have practically yielded this field to Chinamen. If a white man applies, to a Chinese cook to sell vegetables the answer is : ' none are wanted;' if a Chinaman applies he sells. James Thomas Smith, who has a farm of 160 acres about six miles from Vancouver, says: The Chinese are doing us'out of our market here, in the vegetable line principally. We have brought a few vegetables to the market, but we cannot compete with the Chinese. We cannot raise vegetables and sell them at the price the Chinese sell. The Chinese have control of the market. I have a knowledge of their methods of raising vegetables from personal observation. Our methods differ. We do not use the same stuff. They use their own water. They save it all winter in jars. They take it out and pour it on the vegetables, celery, lettuce, turnips and carrots. They do not use it on potatoes, but they use it on most of the other kinds of vegetables that they grow during the season. The stuff is poured on the top of the leaves of those vegetables. I have seen it done, and dozens of other farmers have seen the same. Sam Hop, Chinese market gardener, stated : I know Mr. J. T. Smith. My holding is near his. I use nothing but horse manure on my garden. I sold the produce, a load of turnips, to Mr. Smith. He used them for his house purposes and to feed the horses and cattle that he had. He told me that he was going to use them for the house. William Daniels, a farmer, South Vancouver, says: The Chinese can grow vegetables as good as myself. I cannot compete with them because they work more hours than I* do, and they get their countrymen to work cheaper for them than I can get work done for. They have no families to keep like I have. The Chinese are good tenants and pay their rent promptly. I have observed their methods of cultivation during ten years, and I think they are very good market gardeners. I have heard statements about the objectionable methods adopted by Chinese market gardeners, but I have never seen any of those practices. I eat vegetables grown by Chinese and am not afraid to do so. They are all right. William James Brandrith, secretary of Fruit Growers' Association for the Province, says : The Chinese are a menace to health from the way they use human excrement in their market gardens. I have seen them using it. Joseph D. Palmer, of Vancouver, landscape gardener, says : They (householders) get their ideas from me and get Chinese to carry them out. They affect me in looking after ground, and they drive away numbers of men, useful men in a garden but not practical gardeners. They have largely got control of that work. I can't say how many white men have been superseded. Many gardeners, six or eight, have told me that they had given up their work. I consider Chinese a curse to the country. I had' to stop writing to our people to come here. In my ten years of landscape gardening in Seattle I never met a Chinese. There are no Chinese employed in gardening in Seattle. Mah Jo, Chinese, restaurant keeper of Rossland, stated that there were from one hundred to one hundred and fifty Chinamen in Rossland who worked in gardens in summer and cut wood and cleared places in winter. Gordon W. Thomas, Cedar Cottage District, near Vancouver, says : There are Chinese market gardeners near me. We cannot compete with them in the market. Their mode of living is so much cheaper than ours and their labour is also cheaper. I have never known anyone who could hire them at market gardening. Only one has a family that I know of and he lives on Lulu Island. The rest live together, from five to fifteen men, according to the amount of land. They cook for themselves. They have no home life and no families. They are law abiding. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 69 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I know for a fact that those labourers working for Chinese market gardeners stayed for three years, or until they pay the expenses of the man who brought them out. Then the market gardeners send for a fresh supply again, and those that have served their time are turned loose on the country. When they become proficient in the work they demand more wages. Twenty years ago at Cedar Hill near Victoria I was on a ranch when they were irrigating. They had a large pit five or six feet deep and ten feet square, and this was filled with human filth, and they had large iron ladles on the end of poles, and they digged this filth out into buckets and irrigated green vegetables with it, cauliflowers and cabbages and radishes, and several other things. I saw it done two years ago near where I lived. They had barrels instead of pits. It was put on spinach, cabbage and cauliflower. I would not like to swear it is done generally, but it is my firm belief that it is so. Dr. O. Meredith Jones, of Victoria, says : I think there are ojbher things far more ' dangerous than leprosy, such as the improper use of manures in the raising of vegetables. I think that is far more dangerous to the community at large. Leprosy is a very slow thing. I have no personal knowledge of such conditions having engendered disease, but there is no doubt they are a very dirty people. Their vegetables are very dangerous. Dr. Robert McKechnie, Health Officer of Nanaimo, says : As to filthy practices, I would like to mention that one commonly finds in some dark corner a coal oil tin for the accommodation of urine. I took the trouble to trace* what became of the urine contained in these tins. I visited the Chinese ranch. This is a rather extensive market garden. Going through the buildings I found a small shed opening on to a large store room. In this shed were some twelve barrels holding from fifteen to twenty gallons © J © each. Two were half full of urine and the rest showed they had been used in the same way. In an empty stable I discovered a dozen more presenting the same appearance, and from the fact of the urine being saved in ' Chinatown' and a stock of it found on a © vegetable farm, I concluded that popular report was true and that this liquid was used. If typhoid fever existed in ' Chinatown' it is a fact that baccilla is excreted by the kidneys, and using it on green vegetables would carry the disease : even if it were used «/ ' © © © J s on the soil it might be dangerous. I don't know of a case of typhoid amongst them. They do not report their cases. Many other witnesses confirmed this practice of Chinese gardeners, but it was as distinctively and positively denied by them. Your Commissioners think this practice was and still is followed, though not to the same extent now as formerly, and more secretly; and by some of the better market gardeners perhaps not at all at the present time. The medical witnesses who were called undoubtedly regard this practice as a constant menace to health. AMERICAN OPINION. A. H. Grout, Labour Commissioner, Seattle, says : Market gardening by Chinese in the city and neighbourhood has been almost entirely superceded by white labour, Italians principally. It is hard to say or to find out what is the reason for the change. It may have had relation to the methods of the Chinese in market gardening, but I cannot say positively. At one time, fifteen years ago, the Chinese were extensively engaged in market gardening, but I do not know of any Chinese market gardeners now. © © © ©? */ o I do not know the reason of the change. It was after the Chinese were expelled from Seattle. I came here two or three years after that. They were not really excluded. There was an attempt to exclude them, but the citizens representing law and order prevented any harsh measures. In Tacoma they were excluded and have continued excluded. Henry Fortman, president of the Alaska Packers' Association, San Francisco, says : The Chinese now are the principal raisers of vegetables here. They do a great deal of market gardening, and we have vegetable canneries here. I think the asparagus business is entirely in the hands of the Chinese. The land is owned by the whites and 70 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the canneries are owned and operated by whites. The vegetable exported from California to British Columbia is largely grown by the Chinese. F. V. Meyers, Commissioner of the Bureau of Labour Statistics, San Francisco, says : The Chinese engage a great deal in market gardening. It is fallen into their hands to a considerable extent. I would say from my observation and from the information at my command, that from forty to fifty per cent of the market gardening here is done by the Chinese. I do not know that the question has ever arisen as to whether or not there was any menace to health from the Chinese by reason of the methods employed in market gardening. It is a matter of course of scientific knowledge that certain manures are good for use in the raising of vegetables, but the manner of their use is of great importance. I do not think that human excrement is used here. You will find a great deal of market gardening done by Italians here. About fifty per cent of the market gardening here is done by Italians, Portuguese and other nationalities. SUMMARY. Many instructive facts are to be obtained, from this industry, the natural adjunct of farming. The Chinese have this business almost entirely in their own hands. They rent the land and pay a very high rent. Frequently they take land uncleared. They lease land uncleared for ten or fifteen years. For the first three years without rent; after that for $5 to $12 an acre, an average of $8 an acre rent. In one case it cost to clear the land over $100 an acre. In another case $400 was paid for one hundred acres, with only thirty cleared ; and in another case $700 rental for one hundred acres In another case $320 annual rental was paid for thirty-two acres. The above rentals were sworn to by Chinese gardeners. Much higher rentals were mentioned by other witnesses. The effect of those high rentals is to keep up the price of land suitable for market gardening beyond the reach of white settlers who cannot compete for obvious reasons. The Chinese live in shacks and board themselves, or if boarded by the ' boss ' he has his profits on the provisions. From five to fifteen men live in one shack. They can be hired for $3 and $4 and as high as $12 a month and board from $12 to $25 a month. For old Of this and skilled hands the wages are higher, ranging class the average would be from $17 to $18 a month, and board. They are either unmarried or their families are in China. There are probably from six to eight hundred Chinamen engaged in this business. We only heard of one who had his family here. Under normal conditions this number of workingmen should represent a population of at least three thousand, contributing to the schools, churches, social life, and general well-being of the community. In the one case they are citizens , in the proper sense of the term ; in the other they cannot in any sense be called citizens, nor are they likely to become so. They prevent social life wherever they come. The white man with a family will not settle in their neighbourhood if he can avoid it. They are separate from the community and take as little part in the interests that go to make up a desirable neighbourhood as the dumb animal, and we found no place, either in Canada or the United States, where there has been a change in this regard among that class. Over three millions of agricultural products are imported into British Columbia yearly, including large quantities of market truck. At San Francisco we were informed that forty or fifty per cent of the market gardening of that State is still in the hands of the Chinese, and, further, that of the vegetables exported to British Columbia from there, nearly all are grown by Chinese. In Washington State fifteen years ago the Chinese were largely engaged in this industry, but to-day they are entirely displaced by whites. We believe that agriculture and market gardening would have been much further advanced if there were no Chinese to keep out those who would otherwise go into the business. It is our firm conviction that this great interest never will be developed to its true proportions so long as it is blighted by the presence of these people. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 71 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CHAPTER IX.—COAL MINING INDUSTRY. Coal mining is one of the chief industries of British Columbia. The total output for the year 1900 amounted to 1,590,179 tons, of which 914,188 tons of coal and 51,757 tons of coke were exported. The Crow's Nest Pass colliery output was 206,803 tons, leaving 1,383,376 tons as the output of the Vancouver Island collieries. There are no Chinese employed in the Crow's Nest Pass colliery. The aggregate output for all Vancouver Island coal mines for 1900 exceeds that of 1899 by 180,175 tons. The report of the Minister of Mines says :—' There has been a steady demand both in the home and foreign markets for the hard bituminous coal J © produced by Vancouver Island mines, and work has been constant at all the collieries.' These mines may be divided into two groups :—Those operated by the New Vancouver Coal Mining and Land Company under the management, for the last eighteen years, of Samuel M. Robins ; and the Wellington colliery in Douglas district, known as Extension Mine, operated by the Wellington Colliery Company, Limited, the Union colliery, operated by the Union Colliery Company, and the Alexandra colliery, operated by the Wellington Colliery Company, Limited, of which Mr. F. D. Little is general manager. For convenience the former will be referred to as the New Vancouver Coal Mines, and the latter as the Dunsmuir Mines. It is stated in the annual report of the Minister of Mines for the year ending December 31, 1900, that the total number of men employed in and about the Vancouver Island collieries is 3,701; of these 568 are Chinese, 51 Japanese, and the rest whites. Assuming this to be an accurate statement for that year, the number of CJhinese and Japanese employed in the coal mines has considerably increased during the early part of the year 1901, for, from the evidence of the managers of the Island Coal Mines, it appears that the Vancouver Coal Company employs 1,336 men, of whom 1,161 are white men and 175 are Chinese. No Japanese are employed by this company. At the Dunsmuir Union Mine 877 men are employed, of whom 412 are white, 363 Chinese and 102 Japanese. Chinese and Japanese are largely employed underground in the Union Mine, and are engaged in every kind of work, as will appear from the following statement furnished by the general manager:— Men employed at the Union Mine, Cumberland. Underground. Whites. Chinese. Japanese. Miners 203 15 8 30 o J 2 7 16 17 . 16 157 37 12 12 4 14 7 2 6 40 16 7 Track Timbering , 5 1 2 Topmen. 301 261 77 22 11 5 11 8 1 " is" 8 51 4 24 Railwaynifcn ...• 17 25" 12 Pithead 24 111 301 102 261 25 77 Total—877 412 363 102 72 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION h 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 At the Wellington Extension Mine 1,060 men are employed, including 164 Chinese and 1 Japanese. No Chinese or Japanese are employed under ground. Formerly about 100 Chinese were employed in this mine below ground, but were taken out (according to Manager Bryden's statement) owing to a promise made by Mr. Dunsmuir. As this industry is second to none in the Province, your Commissioners deem it of great importance to ascertain its exact position in regard to Chinese labour, and how far increased restriction or exclusion may affect it, and how the parties most interested would regard any change in that direction. © J © Samuel M. Robins, Superintendent of the New Vancouver Coal Company for eighteen years, says: The Company employs 1,336 men, of whom 1,093 are whites and 243 Chinese, including special hands. No Chinese are employed below ground. 918 white men are employed below ground and 175 above ground. Of the Chinese in connection with the mines, there are 37 stokers, 48 banksmen,—these are under the supervision of a responsible white man; 19 timbermen, 39 wharf men, 17 cutting timber, and 18 for general purposes; besides these there are 57 clearing land and 8 farm hands proper,—making a total of 243. At present we have no Chinese at less than $1.12^ per day, and the highest $1.25 per day. Miners earn from $3 to $5 per day; labourers below ground have a daily wage of from $2.60 to $3 a day; very few get less than $2.60 a day. The origin of the removal of the Chinese followed a sad accident we had here in 1887 and was brought about by pressure from the white miners upon the two companies, who simultaneously removed them from the mines. For myself I may say with great satisfaction, the principal reason outside the pressure was on account of the greater safety of the mines. I certainly consider Chinese under ground who can't speak and understand English an element of additional danger. I don't say they are not undesirable on other accounts, but that is a special cause of danger. They are undesirable on other grounds; for one reason in time of accident, they become panic-stricken and can render no help whatever, whereas a white miner has always the reserve of courage to meet a calamity. I am speaking now as a coal mine superintendent. I certainly regard it in the interest of the company to have them excluded from the mines. I don't think a single Chinaman has ever set foot below ground in any of our mines since 1887. The Wellington mine also continued to exclude them while it worked, as far as I know. I believe it is quite closed now. I employ Chinese above ground, financial grounds forcing it upon the company. It would have been posssble to carry on the mines without the aid of the Chinese if all the mines removed the Chinese from their service. That would have been possible until the end of last year ; it would have been possible then, but hardly possible now, for the reason that we are fade to face now with entirely new conditions in the coal market, that may greatly reduce the output of British Columbia collieries, namely, the introduction of coal oil largely in California ; as a corollary to that the conditions, as far as I can foresee them, might force upon the Company the reduction of wages of whites employed, if the Chinese were to be removed from the surface. Q. I suppose your own residence here has enabled you to reach a conclusion in regard to the Chinese question as to the policy of further immigration ?—A. Yes, I have formed an opinion of my own. Q. Will you state your opinion fully to the Commission 1—A. There are certain problems in connection with the thing which I need not go into at the present time, but upon the broad question of the immigration of Chinese into this province, I think it should be entirely stopped, either by prohibition or by a prohibitive head tax. Q. Why; upon what grounds would you say so; what are your reasons ?—A. Now, I am not speaking so much from my position as an officer of a coal mining company, as from my own views and feelings as a British Columbian. Another reason is that manual labour—that is labour that is not i usually regarded as skilled—is looked J © upon as humiliating by the white population, because of the presence of the Chinese and their engaging in manual labour here, and the young generation are more desirous than in any other country I know of, to escape from manual employment. The younger generation here seems to be ashamed to do the work that the Chinese do. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 73 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. That condition of affairs you regard detrimental to the interests of the country at large ?—A. Undoubtedly it is. Q. From your own observation, do you think the Chinese show any tendency at present to live up to our standard %—A. None whatever. There is no change whatever in their practices as far as I have observed. Q. If they would assimilate with our people do you think it would be desirable in the interests of the country %—A. I should say not. Assimilation covers not only the habits of life, but would imply intermarriage with the people, which would not be desirable here. It would be very undesirable for any foreign nationality to be largely imposed upon us. The standard of hving and the mode of living of the Chinese are largely removed from that of a white worker in the same calling. A white man might live and support a family on the wages paid a Chinaman, but certainly it would be little better than starvation. It would be ruinous for any country to have such a nation as the Chinese intermarry with them. I have never seen in the district more than two or three Chinese women, and they are the wives of merchants and not of the labouring class. I have no cause of complaint as to their want of obedience, diligence and thrift. I have no means of knowing of their thrift or morality from an Englishman's standpoint. I understand there is a Chinese mission, but I am sorry to confess that I have not paid much attention to that, possibly because I doubt whether the Christian practices and Christian theories would not baffle the intelligence of the ordinary Chinamen we find © J here. I apprehend no inconvenience will be suffered by the supply of Chinese labour being cut off. In forming this conclusion I knowthere is a large surplus of Chinese labour available at this moment. If there was a large emigration of Chinese we might suffer. There is no danger of that unless they were called home by the Chinese Government. Q. Do you know of anv industry here which has been called into existence by reason of the presence of the Chinese %—A. No, I am not aware of any, but that might not mean that no other industries were maintained by the presence of the Chinese; but looking nearer home, land clearing so far as my company is concerned, would cease at once if there were no Chinese here. I could not always refuse to employ white labour even when tendered at Chinamen's rate of pay. I prefer to pay white men wages upon which they can live comfortably. I have never engaged Japanese in clearing land. When I speak of the one I speak of the other. If there were no available Chinese or Japanese the land clearing must cease. The company have cleared about seven hundred acres by Chinese labour, whilst the leaseholders under the company have also cleared mostly by Chinese labour, six or seven hundred acres more. I say mostly, because a good many have done their own clearing or employed whites to clear, even if it cost three times what it would cost with Chinese. The sale of lands have been about nil for the last four years. The lands have cost us more than we hope to get back, but we cleared rfirst for safety on account of fires, and to improve the surroundings of Nanaimo. It is not my experience that most of the timber lands are useless. I am of opinion that none of the existing industries in the province would suffer by forbidding of further Chinese immigration. That is the way I wish to put it. I do not think there would ever come a better time to do that than the present; in fact, if I am allowed to express an opinion without your giving me a question to answer, the sooner Mongolian immigration is stopped the better, before it grows to unmanageable proportions. I may state here that a large proportion of the miners here own their own homes, but owing to the presence of Chinese which makes the children adverse to manual labour, and there being no other employment for them, the parents do not know what to do with their children. The result of farming would not at present permit of the employment of white labour, although scientific farming might do. If white men could obtain blasting powder at a reduced cost it would materially aid them in the clearing of land. 74 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The company leases to' miners with the option of purchase, so they can do what they please Most of the miners who have arrived at marriageable age are married. A great many own their own homes. Large numbers may be considered permanent residents. That raises the question I have already referred to, the aversion on the part of children of white people to manual labour. Children are growing up here, their parents or heads of the house working in the mines, and those children are not able to secure any employment, and it has become a serious question with parents what to do with their children. The presence of the Chinese deters children from seeking employment because of the Chinese being employed at certain work, and as I say the parents do not know what to do with their children, with young boys and girls who are growing up in the community. Q. How long is it since coal oil encroached upon the coal market 1—A. It began to be felt last November. We heard about it before that, but it did not affect us much; but now we are beginning to feel the effect of coal oil competition. San Francisco is our largest market. The price of domestic coal is governed largely by the consumption of railway and steamship owners, but there is very little fluctuation in the price of coal. The British Columbia coal is about one-third of the coal consumed in San Francisco. We have found in years gone by that coal had come in from England and from Australia when there was no home demand for it. Sometimes coal has been brought here, colonial and English coal would come in here and been sold at a price which would hardly pay for getting it out of the ships, but that has not occurred recently. It is quite within the range of possibility that it will be impossible to mine and ship coal to San Francisco. Coal oil may be used in some industries and in other industries it cannot be used on account of danger ; arid then the question comes in as to domestic use. Coal oil can only possibly supersede coal for domestic use; but the use of coal in San Francisco may result in a large reduction in the demand for coal from here, and the orders from San Francisco would be of such small amounts, that it would not pay for us to keep our mines open. We are watching that very carefully but we cannot decide as to how far it will interfere with our mining here. It may be that the oil people will be able to secure new inventions, whereby oil could be more generally used in a great many industries, but at present they have more than they can handle and they have to get rid of it, and therefore the market is more affected at the present time. The competition from coal oil has increased rapidly of late, because when one man sunk a well his neighbour had to do the same to prevent his land being drained. If the companies could place their oil elsewhere they would rather get $1.25 a barrel for their oil than 65 cents as they are getting to-day because of over-production. Q. Would that follow irrespective of whether the Chinese were here or not ?—A. It is perfectly independent. I entirely disagree with the idea of servile labour. It might create a few large individual fortunes, but it would be utterly detrimental to the white labour class. Q. Would you consider the Chinese and Japanese as at present here servile labour % —A. Largely so ; not, perhaps, speaking in a legal sense. They are a little too servile to please me. The Chinese have never put any pressure on to get more than half the wages of white labour. I can't remember of a strike ; none in our mines. Q. On the other hand if the margin was very close it would mean a reduction in the price of labour; it would mean the employment of cheap labour, or there would be no exportation of coal?—A. You wish to get an expression of my views whether it would bring Chinese labour into the mine I For myself and my company I say that under no circumstances would that introduce Chinese into the mines. We would rather suffer ruin first. We are employing Chinese in all available departments above ground now. A Chinaman can do pretty well as much as a white man at the work we have them employed at now. In some I should say, yes, unhesitatingly, such as stoking, and as a banksman they do nearly as well as white men. The true banksman, the responsible banksman is a white man, but he has subordinates, and the subordinates may be Chinaraen. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 75 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 There have been times when we should have been glad of five cents a ton. Q. You told us the presence of the Chinese prevented white men getting employment on the farms ?—A. That statement was made in regard to children and in regard to boys being employed in clearing land. I have tried young men or boys of from fourteen to sixteen years of age. They are not strong enough to do farm work, but there are certain things that these laSs when they reach the age of sixteen or seventeen might do about the place, where we now employ Chinese. Q. Why don't you employ them ?—A. Because you will understand, a lad about sixteen or seventeen, a growing lad, is not so physically able as a full grown Chinaman for certain work. Q. If you hadn't the Chinamen to employ you would't get such work done ?—A. We would get it done in some way, but we are obliged to employ the Chinamen who are able-bodied, but if they were not here at all we should employ white men, although we might have to suffer a little in pocket. Q. Isn't it a fact of the present generation and particularly of the present day that owing to the high standard of education the children get here they are inclined to climb more into skilled labour?—A. That is a feeling that is largely produced by the presence of the Chinese. Young people like to rise higher, and they cannot be blamed for that, but the shame they feel at doing manual labour as far as I can see is produced by the Chinese being here, and the young people do not care to go at work which the Chinese are generally employed in doing. * * * I have never met one Chinaman without a pig-tail. If Chinese immigration were prohibited, Chinese labour would gradually disappear and perhaps it would increase the price. I don't think the scarcity of Chinese would be such as that their wages would approximate to that paid for white labour. I think Chinese immigration ought to be stopped entirely. I believe there are questions of imperial importance in regard to the Japanese. We own the land on which ' Chinatown' is built; the Chinese erected the buildings, such as they are, themselves. It was considered temporary. I wanted to get them outside of the town. I removed them. We get $50 or $60 a month for the whole of ' Chinatown.' It is unsatisfactory to me. They have been there sixteen or seventeen years. They tried to buy lots in the city, it. I refused. I refused to sell to them anywhere. the white labour would increase. I would try and maintain a standard of wages. If today you removed all our Chinese we would either have to reduce our wages or shut down. I always deprecated labour being brought in to reduce wages. I set my face against bringing the scale of wages down. We don't want to take every cent there is o © © © «/ in the business. I have no doubt the miners' unions would do all they could to prevent wages coming down. Q. Referring to the condition of the labour market in a large business like yours, don't you think the industrial conditions in regard to the rate of wages should be left «/ © © to settle themselves without any interference from the Legislature in the way of restriction of any kind ?—A. That, I presume, points to the question of the minimum wages. Speaking as a superintendent of a company I say that a wage be paid to a man upon which he can live respectably and support a family respectably. The wages should be governed on what a family can be brought up on respectably. Employers and men have to meet as far as possible each other's views. An employer may reduce wages by small degrees now and again until you are ashamed to look a workman in the face ; until the workman cannot tell where his bread is to come from for the next day. That is the effect of the importation and employment of cheap alien labour. I may say that it is my earnest hope that such a time may never come in this country, and in order to prevent that, I would rather that no such labour should come in. Q. Do you think it is proper a distinction should be made between one class and another ?—A. That has been attempted but it has been brought about by agreement. There has been no legislation in England that I know of to prevent immigration. Q. Do you know of any country where that idea is seriously entertained—the question of prohibition of immigration and the minimum wage ?—A. I have not gone They offered very good prices on As the Chinese gradually decrease into the question of legislation and the minimum wage. I take the general ground, 76 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 from my point of view it is more satisfactory to the people to have such a thing as a minimum wage and then employees are adequately paid. Q. Would you prefer to deal with organized labour in preference to dealing with unorganized labour ?—A. Yes, most emphatically I prefer to deal with organized labour. I have a copy of the Company's agreement with the union which I have pleasure in handing you. This agreement, Exhibit 25, follows :— Memorandum of agreement. entered into between the New Vancouver Coal Mining and Land Company, Limited, and the Miners and Mine Labourers' Protective Association of Vancouver Island, this 24th day of July, 1891. 1st. The Company agrees to employ miners and mine labourers only who are already members of the Miners and Mine Labourers' Protective Association, or who, within a reasonable period after employment, become members of the Association. 2nd. The Company agrees to dismiss no employee who is a member of the Association without reasonable cause. ' 3rd. The association agree that under no consideration will they stop work by strike without exhausting all other means of conciliation available. 4th. The Association agree that they will not interfere with the Company in employing or discharging employees. 5th. The Association shall comprise all men employed underground, excepting officials and engine drivers, and above ground all day labourers, not officials, engine drivers or mechanics. 6th. This agreement can be terminated by 30 days' notice on either side. For the New Vancouver Coal Mining and Land Company, Limited. Francis Deans Little says : I am General Manager of the Wellington Colliery Company. The mines are at Extension or South Wellington, Alexandra and Union. The Alexandra is not working now, it ceased last December. At the time it stopp*ed working we did not employ Chinese underground. We employed above ground about twenty, and ninety miners, all whites. In all, about one hundred and fifty white men. We paid Chinese above ground for ten hours $1, and for firemen for twelve hours, $1.50, and dumpers, $1.50 for eight hours. We never employed Chinese underground at Alexandra. We employed them underground at one time in all other mines. We employed them in the Extension till last year. It was an experiment on Mr. Dunsmuir's part. He appeared to think he could run as cheaply without them as with them ; not a very good result financially. The expense was increased. It cost nearly double in track laying pushing and that class of labour generally. I have failed to find a single white man that will do the work of two Chinamen at this class of work, and some Chinamen will do at that work as much as white men. I do not agree with Andrew Bryden when he says a good white pusher is equal to two Chinamen, or when he says ' It would not be advisable for the management to go back to Chinese underground.' We have worked a mine, No. 2, with all Chinese, and never a man killed in it. It ran for eight years. The Chinese did all the work in connection with the mining, except one overman and two firemen to examine for gas. There were about one hundred and fifty Chinese working there and only required the three white men. We found it quite satisfactory in every way. I do not consider the Chinese any more dangerous than whites. I think they are a little more careful. They won't take risks. In case of accident they are not a bit more subject to panic. We employ here nine hundred men, of whom one-half are Chinese and Japanese; namely, about one hundred Japanese and the rest Chinese. We do not employ them all. We employ the labourers ; of these 450 Japanese and Chinese, we employ 30 Japanese and 135 Cliinese. • For section men we use one white man to five or eight Chinamen. None of the helpers in the mines are employed by us. They are paid by the miners. The price varies from $1.25 to $1.50, We contract by the ton. We pay 75 cents per ton of 2,500 pounds. The miners average from $3 to $3.50 and some as high as $5 a day. We pay mule drivers (whites) $2.50, and Chinamen $1.50. The Chinamen do not manage quite so well. The intention was to exclude the Chinese here. It is better the way it is financially. I ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 77 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 would not change. Mr. Dunsmuir wants to change. I do not agree with this new idea of his. We brought out two hundred Scotch miners, and they were no good. We have twenty left. I do not know where they went to and I do not care. I do not think one-third of them ever dug coal in their life. Very few paid their passage. They were supposed to pay $70 each for the passage, but never did. Many of them went to Seattle at once. They never came here at all. Mr. Dunsmuir spent $15,000 on them. I do not think he got $3,000 back. I paid $3 a day for a $1 day's work to some of them. I was longing for the Chinamen. © O The Chinese and Japanese are about alike. The Chinaman is a little stronger; the Japanese smarter and quick. The Chinese are good and faithful. I never saw one drunk. Very few of the Chinese have their families here, only three or four of them have. I don't think they send very much to China ; they save for a while and make a trip home and most of them come back, and when they go home they take their savings with them. I don't think they will ever become assimilated. They are wanted in this country for a while yet to get the country ahead. There are lots of industries here that would drop at once if they were driven out for several years yet; I think it is necessary for them to be in the country for ten years yet; then it would be time enough to take steps. I don't see any object in keeping them out, only the labour trouble. I think there should be no restriction whatever, and speaking for myself, I do not think the time will ever come when there should be restriction. Q. Then, do you think the country would be better off supplied with that class of people than with white people ?—A. Altogether, no. Q. What do you mean ?—A. I mean to prepare the country for labour, and the country wants that class of labour to develop it. Q. Why cannot white men do the labour of developing ?—A. A white man won't do it, so why not employ them as well as anybody ? Q. Do you think there is no object in trying to get a permanent class of white labourers here ?—A. I think so. Under restriction they will never come together with the whites. They will be always as they are now, labourers clearing land, and getting things into shape to help the whites. Q. They make good miners ?—A. Yes; we never get a Chinaman in a mine unless we cannot get a white man, except as a helper. We have worked a mine altogether with Chinese to our satisfaction. They are quite competent to do that class of work. If there is any scarcity of white men we take the Chinese, to do the same work as white miners. There are only sixteen Chinese who do mining in the whole mine. We have had 150 actually mining. It worked all right. Q. So, if the Chinese came in in sufficient numbers it would be best, I suppose you will say, to supersede the white miner ?—A. It would. Q. What would be the object ?—A. We would pay them just the same. Q. Do you think that would be desirable ?—A. No. Q. Why not?—A. I would rather have the whites than the others. Q. If they do the work as good why not let them do it ?—A. I do not know it would make much difference. Q. You think as long as you get out the coal or the ore it would be as mucft in the interests of the country to get it out by common Chinese labour as by common white labour*—A. I do not see it would make much difference myself; they spend nearly as much money as the whites. As long as we pay the same money for it it makes no difference. Q. They make good outside labourers ?—A. Yes, first class. Q. So all the outside labour except overseeing could be done by Chinese ?—A. It is done now all over. Q. So, really, if there were enough of the Chinese here in the country you could run your whole mining as you did No. 2 ?—A. You would have to have your machinists and blacksmiths white men. 78 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION I 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. That would be, as far as the country is concerned, as good and profitable ?—A. Yes, just the same; the only difference is in the labour part. We would only have so much done. Q. Are there enough here now ?—A. I think there are enough. Q. Have you had any difficulty in getting all you want ?—A. No, sir. Q. Suppose no more were allowed to come in, would you have any inconvenience ? —A. Not unless I wanted to extend the work. Q. So, although you would not suffer any inconvenience if no more came into the country, you are still in favour of more coming ?—A. I say, make it free to everybody. Let them come and let them go ; that is my view. That's the view I always held and see no reason to change my opinion. I have been connected with coal mines since '64, and manager for thirteen years. The white man can take on as helper whom he pleases. We had plenty of Scotch miners here before ; they came here about ten years ago and are here yet. It would take the Scotch miner six months to become a skilled miner here. We guarantee to make their wages $3 a day on dead work. We pay so much a yard for deficient work. It runs all the way from $1 to $10 a yard, besides the tonnage, the rate on which is equivalent to the rate on a ton of coal. Q. Is your white labour steady ?—A. Well, we have had it quite steady for quite a while. In five hundred men you have some moving now and again. We have had it steady for quite a while. Q. Where do the white labourers go to ?—A. To Washington and Extension. Q. Do they go fishing ?—A. No. Q. Do they go mining ?—A. Yes, the Yukon took quite a number from here. Q. Could you afford to pay white labour and still have reasonable profit in the business?—A. If we paid $2.50 a day instead of $1 there would not be any profit left. Q> Do you know what class of labour they employ on the American side ?—A. They work ten hours a day and they get lots of men to work that time. The mule driver there will get $1.75 a day for ten hours; so we are paying the Chinese here more than they pay the white labour over there for that class of labour. That is in Washington State. I cannot tell what Washington miners get per ton. The labour only I talk about. Different mines will have different tonnage. There is one instance they pay $1.75 a day for mule drivers for ten hours' work, and we pay $2.50 a day for eight hours' work. There is one example; and the other things are about the same proportion. Q. Does that ten hours represent the time from the surface until the miner gets back to the surface ?—A. I do not know, but that is what it is here, eight hours from the surface and back, for all classes underground, and on the top ten hours. There is not much profit now. Down at San Francisco the oil makes a difference. The output of our mines and the mines of Washington State does not affect the market but little. Australian coal affects it a little; not much. Very little coal comes from Scotland. There is still coal coming from Wales. Q. If the other coal mining companies in this country excluded the Chinese, do you think it would be better all round, and that they will be enabled to continue to mine with white labour at a profit ?—A. They are not in the market at all. They are simply sending coal to two parties under contract. It would not make any difference to them. We have not the regulating of prices there. Washington State and others have the regulatmg of that. We cannot do it. o o I have never heard a single objection to working with Chinese or Japanese. I never heard any complaints. Q. Have men never made any request to you for the employment of white men exclusively under ground ?—A. No, sir, only the Miners' Union in Nanaimo ; that body they have now. Q. Do your miners belong to the union ?—A. I do not know, I am sure. They might be union men and they might not. Q. Have they ever asked you to employ white men only ?—A. Who? Q. The Miners' Union?—A. Oh, we hear from them regularly. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 79 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 money. I think We had to pay there are some of Q. You have no reason to doubt that their demands are in the public interest ?— A. They are in their own interests. Q. If it were possible to bring in a lot of white labour to the coast—the Chinese labour because it is cheaper—you would prefer it ?—A. I suppose I would prefer the cheap labour. I do not care what labour it is so long as it is good labour. Q. I suppose you would not go in for any more assisted immigration ?—A. No, I have had two spells of that. I do not know which was the worst, the niggers or the Scotch miners. We brought sixty-five niggers from Pittsburgh and Ohio, and they were as bad as the others. Q. What was the trouble with them ?—A. Too much their passage here and they gradually drifted away from us. them here yet. There is no law for the eight hour day here in coal mines. I think eight hours is quite enough in a mine. I never approved of ten hours. I can't say if a miner with a white helper can do more than a miner with a Chinese helper. If the Chinese were not here we would hear from the unions; they do not know where to stop. I would certainly have recourse to Chinamen if we require them. Why shouldn't I ? I fail to see that Chinese are forcing anybody out. The young people growing up in this country do not want to do that class of labour; they won't do it. In 1898 an arrangement was made to put the Chinese out of the mines. There had been explosions in 1887 and 1888 in Wellington mine and in the New Vancouver Coal Company's mine. Mr. Robins said if Mr. Dunsmuir would do it he would do it. I don't think it was because it was thought the Chinese dangerous. They don't have helpers at the New Vancouver Coal Company ; they work partners. If Chinese and Japs were not available we would have to get more for our coal or have to stop mining. The margin is close. Cumberland is incorporated. The miners acquire the land from the company on which their houses are built; the majority of them own their own houses. The Japanese pay ground rent and build their own houses. It is the same with the Chinese. John Matthews, local manager of the Union mine, said : I think the Chinese are as safe as ordinary miners if they understand English ; that is the test, and they are not permitted to have charge of a place unless they do understand English orders. They are careful, faithful and obedient. In ordinary labouring work they are about equal to whites. They can't do as much as white men. In mining, about three-fifths would be a fair comparison. In pushing they are about equal. They are under the charge of a white driver of a mule. I have no preference for Canadians over a Chinaman in regard to working under ground. Above ground I would as soon have one as the other. © © o Speaking as a citizen, if there were more whites to take their place it might be better. It would not affect us much if the Chinese were shut out. It might indirectly affect us through the miners. It would be sure to raise the price of wages. Whenever a white man comes along we put a Chinaman out and put a white man in. I prefer white men because they do more work. Socially I prefer my own countrymen. The Chinese are absolutely necessary for present work. The cost of production would be greater without Chinese, but falling off in production here would not affect the price in San Francisco. It would compel us to reduce the white man's wages. I have not the slightest doubt if left to their own choice the white miners would retain the Chinese as helpers. It enables them to work easier and they can make more money. I think their presence here has a tendency to keep the white man's wages high. I can explain that: The coal has to be produced at a certain price ; we can only get a certain price in the market and we have to produce to compete with others. If we can get a certain amount of work done by the Chinese at a cheap rate, working in the place of white helpers at a high rate, it enables us to pay the white miners more. I do not think there can be any doubt about that. At the same time, it lessens the number of white men employed. If a number of white men came here to-morrow we could give them work inside of two weeks. They could get work. without turning out Chinamen. We have got plenty of work for all. As to the Chinese, I think there are enough here for my purposes, but I want white miners. 80 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The average Chinaman can be depended upon in time of danger. If a white man goes into any place in the pit the Chinaman will follow him anywhere, even to danger. Business men are opposed to Chinese. If all the industries of the country were operated by white labour there would be more demand all round for mechanics. I think opinion is divided on the question among all classes. I don't doubt the general opinion is they would rather do without them. I do not think restriction would have any disastrous effect. Andrew Brydon, manager of the Dunsmuir Extension Mine, says : We have eight hundred white men below ground and one hundred and ten Chinese in and about the mines. The miners work by contract at 80 cents per ton of 2,352 pounds. Our minimum wage in case the tonnage does not pay is, for miners, $3 a day. If one man can make $4 a day in the place, and the other can only make $2.50, it is the man's fault, and not the place. We pay pushers and drivers $2.50 a day. About thirty timbermen from $2.75 to $3 a day; twelve firemen, $3.30 a day ; and twelve track-layers $3 a day. Some of the miners make $8 a day and others $2.50. It depends on the place they are working and on the men. An average wage of miners is $4 a day. The men never worked more than eight hours a day underground ; the miners actually are at work seven hours. Board is $20 per month. About twelve months ago we employed about one hundred Chinese below ground. The reason of their removal was because Mr. Dunsmuir promised to put them away. They were paid underground $1.25 (for eight hours). We pay the surface Chinamen $1.50 for ten hours. There are only three now below ground, one in each shift, changing the rope from the empty to the loaded truck. The three are paid $1.25 each. The Chinese above ground dump coal. That don't require much strength. Youths could do it, that is if over 16, and stout. I prefer whites to Chinese; other things being equal I would prefer to employ them. About one-half of them understand English. I don't think they add an element of danger any more than whites that don't understand English, that is the element of danger. There is no difficulty in getting the number of Chinese we require. If no more Chinese came in it would not affect us. There are sufficient here now for any purpose that we require. I do not care to express an opinion upon further restriction, further than I have gone. I don't know what became of the hundred that were underground in the mines ; they are gone. Eight or nine months ago we were scarce of white labour to replace the hundred Chinamen who were put out. We imported two hundred miners from the old country. Very few of them paid back the expenses of bringing them out. Most of them are in Washington; some are at Crow's Nest. The work here was different and they did not like it. It takes a man four or five years to become a skilled labourer. It did not inconvenience us. Wages were pretty good in the old country at that time, about the same as they are here. They claimed they were making $3 a day before they left the old country; I do not suppose they were. They were an average good lot of miners and after two or three months' work here would have been efficient for our work. We gradually got other © J © There are good miners in all countries and in some there men from all over the world. is a superabundance. When I was in Australia there were lots of miners that could not get work. It would not be advisable for the management to go back to Chinese under ground, if possible to get sufficient white miners. We employ Chinese as firemen, firing the boilers,—eight altogether. I can't say how many whites it would take to do the work of the fifty Chinese under me. It would take about the same number of whites. We would lose $50 a day in employing whites instead of Chinese. I don't know whether this would be a serious matter or not. Mr. Dunsmuir made some arrangement with the miners some months ago and he has carried it out. The Chinese that are there are giving satisfaction. An Englishman or a Scotchman would not take the place of the Chinese ; miners would not. We have not tried to fill their places. They don't employ Chinese in the mines at all in Australia. Our demand for white labour arose because we dismissed the Chinese. White labour is not always easily obtainable. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 81 Kilpatrick supplies us with timber. He employs Chinese for that purpose. We have never tried to replace Chinese with white labour. A white man can't live here on Chinese wages. If Chinese were scarce I would fill their places by Japanese. I see no difference between them. MINERS VIEWS. William J. McAllan, a miner who had worked in the Old Country, New Zealand, Australia and British Columbia, and who was appointed by the inspector of mines to act as arbitrator which involved an inquiry as to the danger of employing Chinese labour in the mines, says: I am opposed to the further immigration of Chinese. I object to them because they can never become a part of the nation. We should not admit any people to our shore with whom we cannot intermarry and who will not become a part of the nation. From the commercial standpoint they are a serious obstacle to successful business being carried on. They don't spend much of their wages in town. Any business requires traders, and if you have people who send their money out of the country you cannot build up the country. The industries of the country should not be operated by. Chinese. I think such resources should be reserved for Europeans to operate. These riches might better be left in the ground. It tends to two classes, the rich and the coolie labour. I don't think we should have a servile class. It must have a weakening effect. It undermines the nation. The backbone of any nation is its toiling people. I am opposed to further immigration. This applies equally to Japanese. I think the action taken in the colonies of Australia and New Zealand entirely does away with the argument that you require Chinese labour. No cheap labour is employed in Australia in the mines or on the surface. I never saw a native or Chinese employed in a mine in Australia or New Zealand. White men cannot compete with Chinese. I have no objection to Chinese as a working man if he would live and work like a white man. Chinese keep boys out of employment. The Chinese wear overalls and the regulation miners' boots and hats when they are working outside the mine. Eight years ago we had no difficulty in making ten or fifteen shillings a day in Australia or New Zealand ; since then they have fixed a minimum wage. In Scotland about five years ago wages were from five shillings to eight shillings a day, eight hours shift. Cost of living in Australia and New Zealand is about $18 to $20 a month. John Calligan says : I have resided in Nanaimo and Wellington 24 years. I am not working as a miner now. I am attending the pump. I have worked in mines with Chinese at Wellington. The Chinese were paid $1.25 a day. White men in general paid them a little more. The company would not allow them to pay more than the $1.25 a day. That was the standard price. The Chinese acted as helpers to the miners. The company paid $2.50 per day to white men for loading coal and helping. I have objections to working with Chinese underground because they nearly killed me, and because they are stupid and ignorant. They don't understand where there is danger. I am opposed to Chinese coming into the country. They help to reduce the wages of the white man. I should say, don't let Japs or Chinese come in. William Woodman, of Nanaimo, an engine driver, says: I have charge of a stationary engine at the mine above ground. The Chinese don't compete with us. I object to Chinese immigration. First, because they are effective for capitalists to oppress the labour element in general; he is willing to work for half the pay of a white man. Secondly, I regard them as tending to impoverish the country, as two-thirds of their earnings go to enrich their own nation and impoverish this. Thirdly, in the sphere of domestic service there is a serious objection. I regard domestic service as a large sphere where women may earn an honest livelihood and learn to fit themselves for more important duties in life. I judge the greatest objection is from unskilled labour in the past. That same experience will be the lot of skilled labour in general. Fourthly, I regard the presence of Asiatics in large numbers as a menace to health. They are very unsanitary by allowing accumulations of filth all around them. I cannot urge any serious objection as to their personal cleanliness. Fifthly, another serious objection is 54—6 Si 82 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the injustice that a British born subject has to stand to one side arfd Asiatics be preferred to him. I don't think they ever will assimilate with our people, and it is not desirable. I mean to say that when an appeal is made to loyalty in such case, it is putting loyalty to a needless and dangerous strain. A British race ought not to be asked to surrender their rights in order that favouritism may be given to an alien race. I believe in their elevation, but not at the expense of our people. I think we are competent to paddle our own canoe without the aid of the Asiatic. I would simply answer that question by the general application of the principles recognized by the present Dominion Government wherever money is spent, that is by the enactment of the law for a fair wage for its work; then there will be no discriminating against the Japanese or any one else. In keeping the Japanese and Chinese out of the country it would be a thousand times more effective than all the other legislation in the past or future. I would simply have the law that where Government money is spent that no Chinese or Japanese be employed, and the] most effective way of getting at that is by fixing a minimum wage, and no contractor will employ a Chinese or Japanese where there is the minimum wage paid to white labour. A law such as I have mentioned would prevent the employment of cheaper labour or degradation of it. To protect the weakly white man against Chinese getting into competition with them, I would have a Board of Arbitration as they have it in New Zealand. If a man is incapable of doing certain work, then the Board will decide he should receive less. I would apply the minimum rate of wages to all callings, even to domestic service. It would apply also to skilled labour. It might result in increasing the wages for domestics. It may be said to be very largely a wage question. It is a labour question. They want to do the white man's work for half the white man's pay. It is more than a labour question. It is serious from a sanitary point of view and it has also a strong tendency to permit the accumulation of wealth by the capitalist. Labour in Great Britain is better paid because of the employer and employees getting close together and each studying the interests of the other, and each respecting the other. I learned my trade in England. I was apprenticed. Quite a few girls here are in domestic service. The miners have families as a rule. White girls get from $15 to $20 a month. There are hundreds in the Old Country who would be glad to come. I wonder what the boys are going to do. If no Chinese were employed it would give place to boys. It would be an important factor in that direction. I regard it as a national weakness to bring about conditions which compel our youth to emigrate. I think the exclusion of Asiatic labour would benefit us all around. I regard the Japanese question as more acute than the Chinese question. I don't deny they are superior to the Chinese. John Knowles Hickman, who is .a locomotive driver in connection with the mines, and has resided in Nanaimo twelve years, says : The Chinese compete with me to a certain extent. The way I would point it out is this : That the rising generation-—that is our young people—have not got the chance of learning my business, for the simple reason that the helpers we have, the firemen and brakesmen, are Chinamen ; therefore the white boy has no chance to come and learn the business of locomotive driving. Therefore, I say, the Chinaman is injurious to the white man and his family. We have had Chinese for firemen and brakesman for twelve years to my knowledge, in the new Vancouver Coal Company. There are five locomotive drivers. We have one fireman to each locomotive. I am opposed to the Chinese immigrants. They are an undesirable race of people. They cannot be depended upon in case of accident or emergency. I have found this so. Their sanitary condition is not what it should be. It ought to be righted, but it is not; overcrowding of Chinese and Japanese, the filthy state of " Chinatown " as I have seen it, and bad smells, are a menace to health. I don't think they ever will assimilate. They are still a distinct race. I know they fill the following callings, namely: firemen, brakesmen, domestic service, general labourer, laundrymen, market gardeners, helpers to plasterers, etc. They are a detriment to white wage earners. I learned my trade in England by apprenticeship. We have to teach the Chinese. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 83 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 There are no locomotive engineers, Chinamen ; they are "at the top of the tree when they get to be brakesmen and firemen. The boys are around all the time wanting these positions. They would do the same work for $2 or $3 a week and team driving at the same time; Chmese would not be so profitable as white boys to learn the trade. I think boys would learn and be a benefit to the Company. I think there are too many Chinese here now. I believe in absolute prohibition of Chinese and Japanese. I am an alderman. The corporation does not employ Chinese on corporation work. John C. McGregor, Secretary of the Trades and Labour Council, of Nanaimo, presented certain resolutions of the Miners' Union which shortly and fully set forth the views of the miners and mine labourers of Nanaimo, and probably fairly represent the views of this important class in the whole province :— The following resolution was unanimously discussed and carried at the Miners' meeting held on January the 26th inst. That as a Miners' Union we implore the Commissioners to impress upon the Dominion authorities the great necessity there is for restricting or preventing the importation of the above class of labourers into our province. That as miners we know by hard experience that these workmen are very undesirable in and about our mines, because of their being an ignorant and therefore a dangerous class of workmen. © O © In 1887 a serious accident occurred in Nanaimo resulting in the loss of over one hundred lives, and the following year at Wellington, with almost a similar result, and there were good reasons for supposing that these serious accidents were due to a considerable extent to the above class of workmen. So much so, that the operators of these mines voluntarily agreed to dispose entirely of them from their mines and as a matter of fact no such accident has occurred since they were put out of these mines. The fact of this has been made so clear to the members of our provincial legislature that they have exercised their powers to the utmost extent to safeguard the lives of white miners both in coal and metal mines by enacting laws prohibiting their employment underground : such legislation has however been declared ultra vires of the local © s O House and we are now depending upon the disposition of the mine operators to keep them out, a state of things we consider should not be allowed to continue, considering the © J © dangerous nature of underground work. We therefore present these facts and depositions to you in the hope that the Dominion authorities will as soon as possible give us greater security as miners. On behalf of the above association. WILLIAM STOCKER, President. JAS. BRADLEY, Vice-President. RALPH SMITH, M.P., Secretary. NEIL McCUISH, Assistant Secretary. WM. SMITH, Treasurer. This witness further said: I think they are a detriment to the country. They tend to keep out labourers. Their habits are uncleanly. They cannot be counted upon as reliable men in case of trouble. I draw no distinction between the Chinese and Japanese. I think the country would be far more prosperous without them. David Moffat says: I reside in Nanaimo. Have been a miner for 45 years. Mined in Scotland from the time I was eight years old till I was thirty. Came to the United States and mined in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Wyoming, Washington and Utah. Have been here eighteen years. The Chinese should not be employed in the mines because they are mimical to the safety of white men's lives and their own. I have proved it by what I have seen underground with them ; because they have no idea of the precautions that should be taken underground Shortly after we had an explosion in the Wellington Mine, in the old slope, at 9 a.m—Messrs. Brydon and Scott asked me to take charge of the mine—Mr. Brydon was superintendent and Scott was foreman of No. 4 shaft and the slope. Immediately after going to the slope I examined the place where the men were buried and found still a large quantity of gas. I took a Chinaman with me and put a fence up three hundred yards from where the gas was; at both sides 54—61 w^ 84 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 where there was access or egress to that place. I wrote in English that there was no road that way and had the Chinamen write in Chinese the same. Two days after that I was in the mine, at No. 10 level, east, and to my horror I met two Chinamen coming through this road in close proximity to this gas. I asked what they were doing there. They said " no sabbee." I took the naked lamps from them and took them back to this fence, asked them to read the writing on it, and they said they did not pay any atten- I tion to the writing. On another occasion I found them tacking the curtain up; the curtains keep the air to the bad places. They left these curtains open. I asked why they did it and they answered " no sabbee." On another occasion two of the pushers that set fire to a curtain ran off and left it. They had set fire with their lamps. When I found something was wrong in the air I went and found the curtain still burning. By that time it had caught the brattice (that is lumber put in to conduct the air). I put the fire out and went to hunt the Chinamen, but they had fled. They wanted to get up the shaft. I got a curtain and went back and fixed it up. On another occasion two of the Chinese pushers let the car run away and, without warning, let it come down a heading and break a white boy's leg. The explosion was twelve years past. I worked for the company eight years. Chinamen were in the mine all that time. Two years before they caused an explosion. In a previous explosion nine men were killed. After that there were many cases of carelessness. I was overman in charge of the whole mine. We have to search in every part of the mine for gas. The Chinese are not allowed to do that. They are not considered competent for that, nor to go in a mine after an explosion, even with a safety lamp. If there is a place where there is gas and you tell a white man he'll not go, but the Chinaman says " no sabbee " and he'll go there. Q. Do you know from your own knowledge whether superintendents where Chinese \ have been employed regard the Chinese as dangerous ?—A. They regard them as dangerous. They will not go into a place in the mine if it is a Chinaman that has examined it. Q. How do you know ?—A. I have proven it. Q. In what way?—A. When I would ask Mr. Brydon to go into a place he would say : ' Have you been in there ?' If I said yes, he would go in, but if I said a Chinaman had been in, he would not go in. He would say: ' It is not fit for anyone to go in unless you have examined it yourself.' .... If safety lamps are furnished and kept closed there would be no danger from the lamp alone. I have locked the lamp and given it to a Chinaman and going on shortly afterwards I have found it opened. I would like to see a lamp a Chinaman could not open. Where safety lamps have to be used the employer supplies them. When the mine is supposed to be free from gas, the naked lamp may be used. It is lack of intelligence as well as stubbornness. The statute says that Chinese shall not be put in any position of trust in the coal mines (R.S.B.C., 1897, chap. 138, sec. 82, Rule 34). I have not worked with a Chinaman since the Wellington explosion, January 24, 1888, when 31 white men and 45 Chinamen were killed. There is the same danger now as there was then. We have had no serious accident since the Chinamen were put out of the mines here and at Wellington. When I had charge we had two Chinamen to one white man. We paid a white man twice as much as a Chinaman. By having the Chinaman it kept the white man from asking more wages. Old men could work above ground if the places were not monopolized by Chinamen. There was a finding of a jury that the Chinese were the cause of the accident, and at No. 5 explosion the accident was directly traced to Chinamen. James Cartwright, 27 years a miner, came from Lancashire, England, eight years^ at Nanaimof always worked in coal mines, says: I speak of the danger of Chinese underground (refers to the above statute). I will not work with a Obinaman in the mine because I would consider it dangerous to my life. I am opposed to Chinese because they are not up to our standard of life. It costs them one-sixth of what it does a white man. I have seen sixteen or seventeen Chinese where one family would dwell; that is, so many Chinamen would pay in rent what one white man would have to pay to ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 85 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 keep his family. I know the presence of Chinese keeps out white immigrants. The wealth of every country is in its working people. The Scotchmen brought out here would not work with Chinese. I don't want any country to stop me from going to that country if I live up to the standard of that country and obey its laws. All my objections to Chinese apply to Japanese. I think they compete worse than the Chinese. I want a barrier that will keep the miner in the position he occupies, to-day, or better it. Whites from the east would want a standard wage. Miners' wages in Lancashire from 1893 were ten shillings a day. Board at that time, 12s. 6d. a week. I average from $3.50 to $4.25 here by contract. If we did not average $3 a day we would quit. Average cost of board and lodging here, $20 to $23 a month. I would have wages regulated by the Legislature. I would have a minimum wage. In every country there is cheap labour amongst its own people, but if a man cannot have a living wage and they bring Chinese in to compete against him—if that is necessary for the capitalist—it is better for the country to close the works down. It is a wage question, and more important than that, it is a question of affording safety to human life. If they were educated up to our standard they will want the same wage as we do and live as we do and take their share of the responsibility of citizenship as we have to do. If we had the niinimum wage and there was an enactment providing that that would be the lowest wage, there would be very little competition from the Chinese. There would be no working for half the wage of a white man then, because O © ...... the companies would not pay Chinamen what they would pay a white man. We would not need to drive them out; they would go out. There are quite a number out of work in Nanaimo. Quite a few miners own their own homes. If the Chinese demand it and get the same wages that we do and lived up to our standard, I do not know that I would have the right to object then. I am a member of the union. If there was not enough work for the men under the minimum wage law, they would work in turns or work fewer hours. John Hough, a miner from Lancashire, came to British Columbia in 1884, says : I worked at Wellington from 1884 to 1888. I speak from personal experience. I was fire boss at that time—the man who examines to see if everything is safe. I have caught them (Chinanien) even with fires along the road to warm the oil. I stopped them. I do not see them with fires any more. I was fire boss four years. As a result of that four years' experience I say they (the Chinese) don't report a danger. They were put out in 1888 on account of their being considered an element of danger. As long as they were there they were dangerous. After No. 5 explosion a committee, of which I was a member, was appointed by the miners. The report was that they were an element of danger. Before a mass meeting the two companies agreed to do away with the Chinese —ten per cent every three months till they got all whites. The miners would not accept this, but passed a resolution to do away with them at once, and the two companies at Wellington and Nanaimo did not employ them in the mines after that. There has been no accident in these mines since 1888. In 1884 there was an explosion at No. 3, South Wellington; 23 killed. The Chinese were not responsible for that. Edward L. Terry, secretary of the Alexandra Miners' Union, Nanaimo, 205 members, presented the following resolution as expressing their views on this question:— EXHIBIT 24. SPECIAL MEETING, ALEXANDRA MINE, SOUTH WELLINGTON. Friday, February 22, 1901, 4.30 p.m. Meeting called in order to hear letter read from F. J. Deane, secretary of Royal Commission to inquire into Chinese and Japanese Immigration to British Columbia, and to discuss the subject and decide upon a reply 'to the secretary's letter. President calls meeting to order. Secretary reads the letter. Correspondence received and open for discussion. 86 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Resolved that the secretary be instructed to reply as follows :— That we, the members of the Miners' Protective Union, as a body of British subjects, do, after due reflection and consideration upon the subject of Chinese and Japanese immigration into British Columbia, hereby declare and make known our opinions and convictions, as follows :— 1. That, whereas the immigrants from China and Japan, employed in the coal mines of this province, represent the lowest class of the people of those nations, we submit that the employment of those immigrants in the coal mines of this province constitutes a grave menace to the safety of the mining community of this province. 2. With regard to the fatal explosion at Cumberland, which took place on February 15th, 1901, we believe that better precautions would have been adopted by the management if the men employed in the mine had been all white men, and we believe that the explosion would not have occurred had no Mongolians been working in the mine. 3. We believe that the employment of Chinese and Japanese immigrants in the various industries of this province is inimical to the prosperity of the province, and that it is instrumental in and conducive to the lowering of the white men's wages. 4. We believe that Mongolians absorb, to a great extent, the revenues of this province. 5. We believe that the presence of Mongolians in this province is a great factor in keeping white men of all classes from settling in this province, and we believe it is also the cause of many white men leaving the province. 6. That whereas the Monogolian standard of living is far inferior to that of the white man, we believe that the white man can never assimilate with or compete with the Mongolians. 7. That whereas the habits and general character of Mongolians make them destest- able to all white men throughout this province, we believe that the presence of Chinese and Japanese immigrants in this province constitutes a grave menace to the public peace. 8. We believe that unless rapid action is taken with a view to expelling them from this province the white man will leave this province in possession of Chinese and Japanese immigrants. Letter produced and read from Mr. Mclnnes re petition received and filed. Meeting adjourned—no other business transacted. EDWARD L. TERRY, Secretary, M.P.U. The witness further said: I think they are a menace to health. The two first cases of bubonic plague were discovered at San Francisco among Chinese residents. I wa"s there at the time. I believe they are a menace to the peace, because at Steveston on the Fraser river the military had to be called in to keep the peace. I believe they are a drag on the prosperity of the province, because they send money to China and import 'provisions from China. I think they are a danger to life in the mine. On November 9 last two men were incapacitated for life by being run into in a slope of the Alexandra Mine. A Chinaman was employed as signal man on that occasion, and it was owing to his signal, that the cars run into the slope when they ought not to have been run there. I saw the signal man. I don't consider them safe underground. The employment of Chinese signal men is contrary to law. Two or three of my acquaintances came out with the intention of taking farms in the country, and as soon as they found Chinese here they went off. They did not like Chinese. They preferred to quit British Columbia because of the Chinese. Everybody here, almost to a man, is against them. They are a menace to the community in every shape and form. Very many men are not in the country, have gone out because of the Chinese. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 87 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 There are a good many people afraid to come up and make complaints, especially in the mining community. The presence of the Chinese here is a great grievance ; there is no doubt about that. I think before you get out of the province you will have enough men to satisfy you that the Chinese are a menace and a danger in the community. The strongest argument in favour of that is revolution. If people are not liked, trouble is certain to take place somewhere, and the military are called out, or the police, and then the government will come to the conclusion that something has got to be done. If these people, the Chinese and Japanese, are allowed to come here any further, I am afraid it will lead to trouble before the government act. I would be in favour of it myself rather than be driven out of my country. I should be in favour of revolution if the govern- ment did not do what was necessary under the circumstances. Most of the men here are British subjects, but we have got a good many Americans here. I think the majority of them are naturalized British subjects or Canadians. I have only been here nine months just now; was here two years ago, and went from there to California. Prior to that I was in South Africa and fought in the Matabele campaign for the British Empire. William Stocker, says : I am a coal miner. I have worked in Utah and Colorado at coal mining. There are no Chinese mining there. I am president of the Miners' and Mine Labourers' Protective Association, representing 900 men. But for Chinese competition we would have got the ten per cent advance that we asked for recently. The strong competition of other companies employing Chinese prevented us getting that advance. I never worked where Chinese were employed. I would not take the risk. I believe that where Chinamen are in numbers, white men are afraid to come. By employing all white labour it would most assuredly increase the cost of production a little. My wages average about $4 a day. White men are generally contented in doing an average day's work. I am an American citizen. I would not advise my countrymen to immigrate this country or this island, under existing conditions. I am certainly in favour of restricting any further immigration of Chinese. Americans who are working here for three years and doing fairly well become naturalized. I have a great desire © J O J o to become naturalized myself, and live permanently here, but I do not want to become naturalized until I know what competition we have to expect in the near future. If I were forced to go down into a mine where Chinese were working, or if a Chinese helper were forced on me here, as they are in some mines, I would have to quit and leave the country then. I intend to live here, if I can live without being brought into unjust competition with either the Chinese or Japanese. From what I have seen of them, and I have been on a number of occasions in ' Chinatown' here, they are penned up, to my way of thinking, in such a way that they cannot but be a menace to the whole community. You will find seven or eight and sometimes more, where three white men in the same space would feel that they were overcrowded. In fact one white man would consider he had hardly enough space in the room to dress properly. The Chinese live in small wooden shacks, barely high enough to get into, and very ill smelling in many cases. J © O © «/ © J So many in such a small room cannot be good for health. I have been in some shacks J © where the Chinese live and the air was so foul, so iU-smelling to me, being accustomed to live in clean, well-regulated rooms, that I had to go out at once to get a breath of fresh air. In some of these shacks I could not stand up. The presence of the Chinese has a very injurious effect upon the white labouring man here, who would be to-day in a much better position if they were not here. The white labouring man would be able to make more money and would be able to spend more in the purchase of supplies. I would be better off if the Chinamen were not here. I consider the more money I am able to made the better member of the community I will be, and would be able to do better by my family in the way of giving my little girl education and in affording my wife more luxuries—all-round living better and spending more in the community, yet still saving and making a little home for myself and settling down as a good citizen of the country. The presence of the Chinese here has a tendency to bring other miners and myself down, so that we are not able to enjoy the privileges that white people should enjoy—that all white people should enjoy. REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 UNION MINES. Richard Henry Hodson, miner, says : I have worked here ten years. I have a Chinaman helper. I pay him $1.50 a day. I earn about $4 a day. About two years ago when Chinese were not allowed in the mines on account of the law, I had a white helper for a few months at $2.25 a day. I made about the same wages so that it did not make any difference with me. I worked part of the time without a helper and made from $3.50 to $4 a day. I did not make as much theye because I did not get all the boxes I wanted. If I had I think I would have averaged $4. What I say is what the rest would say. I don't know any miner who prefers the Chinese to the white man. I would not rather employ Chinamen and take $4 than employ white men and take less. I would prefer to employ the white man if all the others did it. In my opinion the white man is a far better helper. They know what to do and can do it; they can change off. If Chinamen were not in the mine the output would be greater per man. I would be willing to have my wages reduced rather than employ Chinese. I know of my own knowledge the feeling of the men is against the Chinese. I have heard them express the view that they are not a desirable race. If you get the manager willing to put them out I think the men would meet him half way. A person who cannot speak English is more dangerous in a mine than one who can speak English. I think something should be done. I think the time has arrived. I think the Japs are the worst element of the two. If the company were willing to put the Chinese out the men would be willing. That is my honest opinion ; but to take out the Chinamen at $1.50 a day you would have to replace him with a white man at $3 a day. You would have to raise the price of coal. You would have to have a raise in the price paid for mining or in the price of deficient work in order to meet that. I thjnk the output of the mine would be about as much with fewer miners. COAL OIL. I i I / Bearing upon the question of the cost of oil as compared with the cost of coal as fuel, the following letter received by the Commission from R. P. Rithet of San Francisco and Victoria, B.C., may be of interest:— San Francisco, October 11, 1901. Mr. D. J. Munn, New Westminster, B.C. Your letter of the 7th inst. reached me this morning. I will be very glad to give you any information I can in regard to the cost of oil as compared with the cost of coal as fuel. The price we pay for oil at present is 72^ cents per barrel. According to our tests four barrels of oil are equal to a ton of coal, that is the best Australian coal or British Columbia coal. The price of this quality of coal to-day is about $6.50 to $7. Our fuel therefore on this basis costs us the equivalent of $2.90 per ton of coal for fuel. In the case of British Columbia you will understand of course that the cost of oil would probably be $1.25 per barrel, while the cost of coal is probably only $3 per ton, so that the cost of oil fuel in British Columbia would be equal to $5 per ton of coal if the oil had to be imported, while the actual cost of British Columbia coal at the mine or say within a short distance from the mine in British Columbia should not exceed $3.50 or $4 per ton. I think this covers the points you asked. With kind regards. R. P. RITHET. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 89 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 SUMMARY. Chinese labour is not employed in the Crow's Nest Pass coal mines, nor is it employed in the Vancouver coal mine below ground, and has not been for many years. After the explosion at the Wellington mines in 1887 the New Vancouver Coal Company and the Wellington Coal Company, at the urgent solicitation of the miners, agreed not to employ Chinese underground (they never had employed Japanese underground). The reason for their exclusion was the alleged increased danger to the miners. Both Chinese and Japanese are, however, employed underground at the Dunsmuir mines at Union, and on the surface at all the principal coal mines on Vancouver Island. Name of Mine. Whites. Chinese. Japanese. Total. New Vancouver Coal Company Dunsmuir Union Mines 1,161 412 895 363 above and below ground. 164 mostly above ground. 702 1,336 102 1 877 1,060 2,468 103 3,273 Mr. Samuel Robins, for eighteen years the general superintendent of the New Vancouver Coal Company, that produced 600,000 tons out of a total production from the Vancouver Island mines of nearly 1,400,000 tons, favours exclusion at once. Mr. Francis Little, the general manager of the Wellington Colliery Company, thinks there should be no restriction whatever. Mr. Andrew Brydon, manager of the Dunsmuir Extension mines under Mr. Little, says : There is no difficulty in getting the number of Chinese we require. If no more Chinese came in it would not affect us. There are sufficient here now for any purpose we require. I do not care to express an opinion upon further restriction, further than I have gone. © Mr. John Matthews, local manager of the Union mines, under Mr. Little, says: Speaking as a citizen, if there were more whites to take their place it might be better. It would not affect us much if the Chinese were shut out. It might indirectly affect us through the miners. It would be sure to raise the price pf wages. I think there are enough here at present for my purposes. I do not think restriction would have any disastrous effect. The Commission were not favoured with the views of Mr. Dunsmuir, although requested. In an official utterance, dated October 9, 1900, as premier of the province, he favours ' an increase of the per capita tax in such measure as to surely limit the number of immigrants, and by enactment of legislation similar to the " Natal Act," to regulate their employment while in the country.' It should be noted in this connection that the management favourable to exclusion are the largest exporters and have to compete in the foreign market. This appeaftrs from the following statement:—Of the total output of 579,351 tons of the New Vancouver Coal Company for the year 1900, 428,578 tons were exported to the United States, 11,888 tons to other countries, and only 55,802 tons sold for consumption in Canada, the balance being used at the mines. In the Dunsmuir Mines, of a total output of 804,021 tons 389,049 tons were exported to the United States, 76,708 tons to other countries, and 221,064 tons sold for consumption in Canada, the balance being used by the company, made into coke or on hand. The result is that of the output of the Vancouver coal mines over 75 per cent is exported, and of the Dunsmuir Mines about 58 per cent. The point to be observed here is that the management favourable to the exclusion of Chinese relies almost entirely upon the foreign market for the sale of its product. It may be here stated that Chinese are nowhere employed in or about the coal mines of Washington State which enter into competition with the British Columbia coal mines. 90 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The recent discovery of coal oil in California introduced a factor which has to be taken into account in its bearing upon the output of coal in British Columbia. By an Act of the Local Legislature their employment in underground coal workings was prohibited, but the Act in that respect was declared to be ultra vires of the Provincial Legislature. (See the Colliery Company of British Columbia vis,. Brydon. Appeal Cases 1899, page 580.) The weight of evidence points to the conclusion that their employment underground is an additional element of danger to miners. Their employment on the surface and in the mines to that extent excludes white labour and distinctly promotes idleness among the youth and young men of the villages and towns adjacent to the mines. The present supply of Chinese labour is sufficient to meet the demand for the present and for years to come. The evidence of those principally concerned justifies the conclusion that further restriction, or even exclusion, of Chinese labour will not cause any appreciable inconvenience or loss to this industry. CHAPTER X.—PLACER MINING. The total production of the placer gold fields for all years up to and including 1900 amounts to over sixtyrtwo and a half million dollars; the largest yield, nearly four millions, was for the year 1863. In 1900 the yield amounted to $1,278,000, of which the Cariboo District contributed $684,000, and Atlin Lake Division $406,000. The principal placer mines now being worked are in these two districts. Atlin is reached by steamer to Skagway, railway to Bennett and then by steamer. It is distant from Victoria about one thousand miles. There are about 3,500 in this district engaged in mining; all are whites. In Cariboo district during the season of 1900 there were about 150 companies working, large and small, employing about twelve hundred men, about one-half of whom are Chinese; this does not include the claims worked by Chinese on royalty and under lease, which would probably increase the number of Chinese engaged in placer mining to over one thousand. John D. Graham, a resident of Atlin, gave evidence at Victoria. He said: I reside at Atlin, one thousand miles from Victoria. It is reached by water by steamer to Skagway, railway to Bennett and then by steamer. It is a mining district, placer and quartz mining. There were last year engaged in mining 3,500, roughly speaking. During the summer the population is large ; in winter it is reduced. The population is all white. No Chinese or Japanese are there. TherCwere Japanese last year, mostly engaged in the restaurant business. They were mostly frozen out and got out. We got married women to do the work. We do it ourselves if we cannot get white women to do it. I anf opposed to the Chinese in the mining district because he works at reduced wages. He works for less and lives on less. I have lived in the Province since 1887. I think it would be better for the white man if the immigration of Chinese into the country were prohibited. There would be more openings for the white man. It seems to be human nature to go to the cheapest market. I know myself when I came here first I could get nothing to do for the simple reason that the market was filled with Chinese. They work for less than I could work and live. Q. Would it be for the benefit of the industry of placer mining to have cheap labour 1—A. I think it would be better to have our mines worked by white labour. The Chinese take all they can out of the placer mines and it is almost impossible to get any money out of them. It might be a benefit for those engaged in hydraulic mining to have cheap labour, but the question is, what is cheap labour ? Last year there were from eight hundred to a thousand men engaged in the installation and working of hydraulic plant, and the rest; of the men were engaged in ordinary placer mining. Q. What distinction do you draw between the Chinese and the Japanese ?—A. I would rather deal with the Japanese^ They are a more manly class of people. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 91 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. In your opinion are there any mining claims not being worked by reason of the cost of labour ?•—A. No, sir. In some cases capital has been lacking, but I believe it has been provided for. In 1899 we were overstocked with men. The placer mines of Cariboo (except hydraulic mining on a large scale) are worked by Chinese; sometimes on royalty and in some cases under leases. Major Charles F. J. Dupont, who owns some placer claims that are worked by Chinese, said : I know that hundreds, perhaps thousands, at least a considerable percentage of the Chinese in British Columbia, are engaged in work that not only does not interfere with white men, but produces wealth within the province. In placer mining the Chinese are content if they make from $1 to $1.50 a day ; white men will not look at that. Then the Chinese are consumers of table goods, purchase their supplies at the stores of white men. They purchase rubber boots, carpenters' tools and nails. They are large purchasers of provisions. They travel largely by our railways and steamers. I have some Chinese working on royalty for me. I had sixty in my own employ last year. They did not make a dollar a day, yet they are quite content to do the work this spring. I never could have worked without the Chinese. I have a white man in charge of each gang of Chinamen, and he checks the produce each night. He checks what each mian produces. Two per cent has to go to the government, and the balance goes to the benefit of the country. I know these men are anxious to go to work this spring and contracts have been made with some of them. They do not interfere certainly with the white men. I was Managing Director of a company engaged in a large work, expending about $400,000 on the South Fork of the Quesnel River. We paid white men $2.75 a day ; that was for shovel work ; skilled men we paid more. The ordinary pick and shovel workmen were paid that. The pick and shovel men struck for $3 a day. They were under the impression that we were at their mercy, and that we could not get any other men to perform the work, but we employed Chinese for a while, until the white men came to reason and were content to resume work at $2.75 a day ; then we dispensed with Chinese labour. The Honourable James Reid, senator, who has resided in Cariboo for 38 years, stated that placer mining is the chief industry. The Consolidated Cariboo is in that district. There are from five to six hundred Chinese in that district. More than one- half of these work their own claims. The others are cooks, gardeners, and farm labourers. The Chinese were employed in the Cariboo Consolidated. They gave place to Japanese who worked for less and were more available at that time. The Chinese have been there as long as I have been there. The Chinese have been useful. We could © hardly have got along without them. I think we could do with a few more of them, for the present. Q. In what way is the Province benefitted by the Chinese working at placer mining 1—A. I am up and down all the time and I come in touch with a great many Chinese. Hundreds of dollars are taken out of the ground and put in circulation by the Chinese. A Chinese will work as long as he earns his board. He will keep along with the expectation of doing better. Sometimes they make from $8 to $10 a day, working hard all the time. Often they will not make more than their board, and they will still work on; but a white man will not do that. As soon as it goes below the ordinary wages of the country a white man quits. Q. How does the Chinese money get into circulation 1—A. I find when the Chinese do well they live well. They buy chickens and eggs and beef and pork. Q. Do they travel much from one place to another ?—A. They do in search of mining grounds. They are continually hunting up abandoned places and working them. All the valuable ground is worked out in placer mining. The upper part has all been worked out. It now requires capital to go to work and develop the deeper grounds. The Chinese only go down a very little distance, and it will only require mining to go down two or three feet to come to pay dirt. Notably has .that proved to be the case in the Cariboo Consolidated Company. Chinese excel in pick and shovel work and in run- ning cars. O 92 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Dennis Murphy, of Ashcroft, M.L.A., says : I was born in the Cariboo country and lived there till I was sixteen, and am up there every summer. I am pretty familiar with the conditions there. The placer mines are carried on by both whites and Chinese ; the largest concerns by whites. The largest company there is the Cariboo Consolidated. They employ over a hundred all told; no Chinese, except cooks, but from thirty to forty Japs. I think there are about 1,500 or 2,000 Chinese in the Cariboo, and about 1,000 engaged in the placer mining. They generally work for themselves. I don't think the whites employ them except for placer mining. The Chinamen are employed in the old worked out placers and they prospect just as whites do, and take up claims as whites do. Leicester Bonnar, of Barkerville, in the Cariboo District, said : There are no Japanese around Barkerville. There are from 200 to 300 Chinese according to the season. About half work for themselves and half for wages. A Chinaman gets $2 and $2.25 a day and boards himself. They are not particular how long they work ; I should think a twelve hour shift. Whites are paid $3 and $3.50 and board themselves. He would pay $30 a month for board. I was speaking of twenty mile radius from Barkerville. The British white labourer—that is the permanent miner—is not interfered with by the Chinese. I was manager of the Cariboo Gold Fields Company. They employed from 60 to 180 men ; of these about 100 out of 180 were whites. That was during construction. Afterwards we employed about 30 whites and 15 or 20 Chinamen. The proportion in other mines would be about the same. It is sixty miles from Barkerville to the Consolidated Cariboo. They employ 200 men all told ; of these about 100 are whites and 100 Japanese. Barkerville is 286 miles by road from the Canadian Pacific Railway. Our company operated since 1895, open hydraulic, and the largest, after the Cariboo Consolidated. The company expended there $500,000. It is putting in plant now. There are four or five companies adjoining. They have expended about $100,000 apiece. Chinese labour is an absolute necessity. The length of the mining season in hydraulic mining is about 90 days. The men have to pay their way up. It takes four days each way and costs $64 from Ashcroft to Barkerville and return. I am an Englishman. I don't consider Chinese good citizens. My feelings are against Chinese. I would clear the lot out. If they are allowed they will take the field from us. They can live cheaper than whites. From a business standpoint I favour Chinese. From a citizen's standpoint I oppose them. I think there are plenty of Chinese there now. Thev arpi trained to the business. They have been there a long time. I should say there are plenty in the country now. They have cleaned out the placer mines. They live on nothing. I think it would be a good scheme to stop Chinese taking up lands, and keep Canada for Canadians. Cariboo is fairly prosperous. If there was a permanent class of settlers it would be better for all, employers and employees. It is the permanent settlers we want. If they were all whites it would be far better for the country. Edmund B. Kerby, general manager of the War Eagle and Centre Star, says: My experience has extended through the Western States and Mexico, in connection with mines and mining work, for the last fifteen years. As to placer mines, so far as I have been able to learn, they seem to have gone into placer mines that white men thought were worked out, or would' languish until finally they would accept the offer of Chinese gangs to work them for them, and work them in their own way. They lease the property and pay a lump sum as a royalty. I have generally understood that a running royalty was unsuccessful because no one could get at the exact amount that the Chinese took out of the placers. All the bargaining is done by one Chinaman, and he deals for the gang. It has been considered an. advantage to the owners, but I do not know that it has been any advantage to the district. I do not think myself it would be well to have placer mining carried out by Chinese all over the country. The Chinese are working placers and taking a large amount of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars, out of the country, and that undoubtedly has an effect on the whole community. Perhaps it will be well to leave the placers unworked until white labour could be got to work them. The Chinese get most of their supplies from their own people, and deal very little with white men. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 93 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 SUMMARY. In the early history of placer mining, after the richer claims were worked out, the white miners left the placer diggings in great numbers, leaving large numbers of Chinese, who continued to work the abandoned surface claims. In future the industry will depend upon the deep placer mines, which will be worked largely by machinery. A large part of the earnings of the Chinese in this industry have in the past been sent to China, and it is a question whether it would not have been better to have left these abandoned claims to have been worked at a later stage by machinery and white labour. There are no Chinese engaged in placer mining in the Atlin country, or the Yukon Territory. In Cariboo, Chinese have been $mg&ge<$: in placer mining from the commencement of this industry. The richer placers were worked out and the Chinese now work over the old claims and take up new claims, sometimes working on royalty, but mostly on their own account. They are largely employed in the open hydraulic mines, except in the Cariboo Consolidated, where Japanese and whites, are employed. These mines are situated, many of them, 150 to 300 miles north of the Canadian Pacific Railway, and the difficulty of obtaining good white labour is very great. The mining season lasts only about ninety days. It takes from four to six days each way from Ashcroft to get in; and for a return ticket costs $64 from Ashcroft to Barkerville. Under .the present conditions of the labour market there, the Chinese are a necessity. Those there are trained to the business, and are sufficient in numbers to meet the demand. Exclusion of further immigration of Chinese will not affect this industry. CHAPTER XL—LODE MINING. This industry has steadily increased since 1887. In that year the output was $26,547; in 1892 it had reached $100,000 ; in 1893 nearly $300,000 ; in 1894 nearly $800,000; in 189*5 over $2,000,000; 1896 over $4,000,000; 1897, $7,000,000; 1898, $6,500,000; 1899, $6,^50,000; and in 1900 over $10,000,000. There are probably between 7,000 and 8,000 men engaged in that industry. No Chinese or Japanese are employed in the interior, and very few on the coast. Edmund B. Kerby, manager of the War Eagle and Centre Star, says : There are no Chinese or Japanese employed in those mines, nor have they ever been employed under my management. We have a large hotel up there in which at one time some Chinese were employed. They were employed in the laundry, and perhaps a couple of Chinese around cleaning up the bunk houses ; that was not in the mining company, or anything to do with the mining company. When we operated the hotel or boarding house we had two ; the parties to whom we leased it have one as a cook. Qutside of that they are not used, except for domestic service among the members of the staff. I have had a large experience in mines on the other side. I have never known the employment of any Chinese except in placer mines ; that holds good all over the coast. My headquarters were in Colorado, but I had worked pretty much all through the Western States in connection with mines and mining work. I do not see that any inconvenience would result at present if no more Chinese came in. I do not think myself that it is for the best interests of the community to have an unlimited supply of Chinese or Japanese labour eoming into the country. My impression is that the plan we have adopted in the United States has worked out fairly well. As to their being employed in rock or quartz mines, I have never seen the question raised. In the first place, their ability as miners would be rather deficient, and physically they are not nearly as strong as white men. Then, for another reason, their limited knowledge of English would make them a little harder to train as miners ; and I suppose were mine superintendents to think of employing Chinese underground, they would consider the fact that it would lead to more or less trouble with the men, who 91 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 would object to their being used underground. I have never seen the question raised, however, of employing them underground, so far as metaliferous mines are concerned. Bernard McDonald, manager of the British America Corporation, the LeRoy, &c, &c, says : We employ between 800 and 900 men. I employ one Chinamen as a janitor, in the office. The boarding house is leased and the cooks there employed are whites. There is just one Chinaman in the employ of the Company. It would make no difference to us if no more Chinese came in. I do not regard the Chinese as a class of people desirable to form the basis of the citizenship of the country. I draw a distinction ; I think the Japanese would be preferable, because they are more progressive, and therefore more profitable, but my knowledge of them is not extensive. In the United States Chinese have not been employed to any considerable extent in the mines or in the industries connected with the mines. There are no Chinese employed in them that I know of. The mining industries have developed very fast in the United States. I do not think it advisable. Where these people are not employed there has not been any retarding of the development. The development in the Cceur d'Alene has been rapid and has gone on without this class of labour, and the development has gone on rapidly in other parts without the presence of the Chinese. Although the railways were built by the Chinese, I do not see why we cannot get along without these people. I think it would help to get white labour here if the Chinese were not here, and then we would have white girls—-plenty of them. James Devine, secretary of the Miners Union, Rossland, says : Chinese are ^.not employed in or about the mines in this vicinity. I have had experience in Colorado, New Mexico and portions of Arizona. They are not employed in any of the mines I ever worked in. I should certainly say the Government should prohibit this class of people from coming into the Province. They are of no benefit to the country and it would be a benefit to encourage the immigration of white labour. They affect all trades and callings, both directly and indirectly, wherever they are. They drive out white labour and force it to seek employment elsewhere. It drives white labour from .the coast cities and to seek employment in the mines. Labour when driven out by the Chinese has to seek employment where it is most likely to find it. There is more labour in the city at the present time than there is a demand for. There is an overabundance of labour here. The supply of miners has always been equal to the demand since I came to the country. They make it more difficult for white men to get employment, and their presence also has a depressing effect on the coast cities from which we could get white labour. © The wages here compare with the wages on the other side very favourably. In some portions of Montana the wages are $3.50 a day ; in Washington State for skilled miners $3.50 a day. In portions of Montana, in the great copper mines of Butte, skilled and unskilled labour are $3.50 a day ; in this camp unskilled labour is $2.50 a day. All over the Kootenay country unskilled labour is paid $3 a day in the mine. There is always more labour in the country than there is a demand for. J. B. McArthur, K.C., of Rossland, says : I have resided in Rossland since January 1895, when it had a population of 75. I am interested in mining here and in the Slocan dis rict, the boundary district, Similkameen, Lardo and Duncan. No Chinese or Japanese are employed in mining in any of these districts. Where they are engaged at mines as cooks they are generally paid from $50 to $60 a month and board; the second cook gets $40 a month. The general feeling in these districts is universal, that the Chinese shall not be engaged in mining or in mines at all. The view is universal that they should be further restricted. My opinion is that a $300 tax would practically bar out all the undesirable Chinese; that is the Chinese that come into competition with white labour. I think what they really desire, as far as the boundary country is concerned, is practical prohibition of further Chinese immigration. Of course there are exceptions to that rule. That would apply to the whole of the country I have referred to, as far as I can judge. As to the development of mining centres, I do not think it would have affected us at all if there had been no Chinese. I think as the new conditions arose we would have met them in some way or other, but the Chinese followed the white men into all these ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 95 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 camps. I have seen three or four camps started, and the Chinese always followed the white men into the camps very quickly. I have about seventy men all told employed in the mining industry. Grand Forks, with a population of fifteen hundred, has 78 Chinese and 2 Japanese,—17 laundrymen, 26 cooks, 5 gardeners, 4 merchants, 26 labourers and hangers on, and two prostitutes,—the largest Chinese population of any other place in the boundary. I think the production of the mines justifies the mine owners in paying the rate of wages paid. The grade of ore is more in the boundary. They pay slightly higher wages to muckers there than here, and have no trouble about labour questions there. There is no reason why our mining resources, cannot be developed here as they are in Montana and other places. I certainly think it in the interest of the country to exclude the Chinese. The Honourable Smith Curtis, of Rossland, says : I am a barrister by profession, but for the last two years have been engaged in mining, and not followed my pro- I am strongly fession. I am pretty familiar with the conditions now existing here, in favour of the exclusion of all oriental labour. My reasons are : the orientals are physically and mentally an inferior race, and if allowed to come into the country without restriction they will drive out the white population, outside of the capitalistic class, or they will force white people to live on the same plane as the orientals; in other words, the white race would be driven out, or be degenerated and degraded. I hold that a servile race, or class, is not beneficial to a white race, and that has been proved by the experience of having the negro in the Southern States. And the inferiority of the orientals to the white race in British Columbia is shown by the refusal of the white race to assimilate in any degree whatever with the oriental. The opinion throughout the country, I believe, is practically unanimous. It is almost the unanimous opinion of all classes that there should be no more immigration of this class of orientals into British Columbia. In so far as industry is concerned, I do not think they are at all essential or necessary. I know of no 'industry that would seriously suffer from the exclusion of the Chinese. Its tendency is to keep white labour out of the country. If they were not here we would have the country populated by a very desirable class of white people, who would settle and develop the country. We are a new country; what we want above all things is good white labour. I may say in this country they can afford to pay the standard wages. We do not shut down because we cannot pay the standard wages, but because we have not sufficient capital to-day to develop properly which can afford to pay white labour, so we do not require to have low-priced oriental labour. We have plenty of propositions—paying propositions ; the country is full of them, simply waiting capital intelhgently applied. George Allan BLirk, wholesale merchant, of Victoria, and interested in mining, says : Take the case of mines. A number of mines with low grade are tied up because of the price of labour; there are a number of low grade mines which cannot be worked because of the cost of mucking and pushing. There is a mine up near Silverton with a very narrow vein ; consequently we cannot pay so much to get the ore out; we cannot afford to pay $3 a day for doing it. The consequence is the mine is closed down and a number of people—one party of Scotch people—have been thrown out of employment, because the mine owners could not afford to pay the price demanded for labour. If the work was done by Chinese and Japanese it could be done for much less. The mining itself could be done by white miners, but the common labour, such as mucking, should be done by cheap labour such as the Chinese or Japanese. The machines could be worked by the white miners. I do not think that the effect of that would be that Chinese and Japanese would gradually encroach upon the white man's work, and get to working the machine. In South America the common work is done by natives and there is plenty of work for white men. Q. What do the white men there do ?—A. They oversee the natives. Q. There are comparatively few white men employed ?—A. There is a white man to oversee each gang. O © 96 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. Do you think it would be in the interests of the country and white labour to allow Chinese to come in without restriction—to allow them to come in in large numbers —a coolie class as you say ?—A. Certainly. Q. Do you think a coolie class is desirable in any country ?—A. Well if you want to get into manufacturing I do not see what else you can do. Q. I mean in the interests of the country, do you think a coolie class is desirable ? —A. I was speaking from the standpoint of an employer. Q. What is the effect on white labour 1—A. I think it has a tendency to keep white labour down in the trades where the Chinese compete. Q. Do you think that is desirable 1—A. From an employer's point of view it is. Henry Croft, of Victoria, says : I am engaged in mining at Mount Sicker, forty- five miles from Victoria; employ both white and Japanese labour at the mines. We employ only white labour in the mines, and Japanese in the sorting of ore. We employ from thirty to thirty-five Japanese. The boys from the town would come up and work for three or four weeks and then leave us suddenly. Either we had to get other labour or shut down. I thought about securing Japanese from sixteen to twenty-one years of age. We secured the Japanese for that labour. We found them perfectly satisfactory in every way. We pay them 90 cents a day. We cannot employ white labour for the simple reason that trade prices will not allow it. If we were to pay labour at $2.75 a day, which is what I understand to be paid in the Kootenays, it would make a difference to us in profit of over $1,900 a year. We employ only three or four Chinese, cutting wood. I am averse to Chinese and Japanese immigration, but I consider that in new countries like South Africa and Australia you must have cheap labour. I think there is a sufficient number of Chinese here now. I do not think it necessary to permit any more Chinese to come into the country ; there are enough of Chinese and Japanese here at present. I believe it is now like a tap ; when you want water you turn it on, and when you have got enough you turn it off. All you have got to do is to put a per capita tax on the Chinese high enough to exclude them. I think the miners to be introduced should be men likely to become permanent residents of the country. Exclusion would certainly increase the immigration to this Province, but I do not think for some time. It will tend to make the different industries in a flourishing con- © dition, as there would be more demand for goods of all kinds. I should advise the stoppage of immigration from the Orient in the future; we have enough Oriental labeur in the Province now. White labour will not come in while the Chinese and Japanese are occupying the place in cheap labour that they are doing at present, but with a restriction on immigration, white labour will gradually come in here, and the Japanese will leave the country. Henry Crosdaile, of Nelson, says : I have been up to October last, manager of the Hall Mines. I was manager for seven years. When we were working full we had two hundred men. Neither Chinese nor Japanese were engaged in or about the mines. The head cook was not a Chinaman; he had an assistant at times, and one or two Chinamen for washing up. In my opinion the country is not fit for further restriction. . I am speaking of this district. There is a large minority of people here who are dependent on the Chinese, and the Chinese in rendering them the ordinary service connected with gardening, washing and domestic service, do not come into contact in any way with the labouring classes. I am quite willing to admit that the majority of the people here are opposed to any further immigration of Chinese, but I think the majority is made up of people who do not employ Chinese, nor get any benefit from their service. If you take the opinion of people who have been the employers of Chinese, I think you will find a number of them in favour of keeping the restriction as it is, and not increasing it; but the main point I should like to make is this: I do not see how this district—the existence of the Chinese that are here—in any way affects the mines or the labouring men in the country. They certainly do not keep down wages or come into conflict with them in any way whatever. They do not even get employment on the railways in this district. I do not regard them as a desirable race,—that is to have the full rights of citizens,—certainly not the right to vote, because they do not have the power of understanding the form of government under which we live. They do not take any interest ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 97 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 in it. I simply look upon them as a class of citizens that we have to make use of,— only fitted for the service they render. They are good servants, and law-abiding. I do not think they are taking the place of citizens. Q. Do you consider them a factor of any importance in the development of this section of the country ?—A. No, I cannot say I do. They are not mining, and as I say,. in this district, any work they do does not tend to develop the district. It is naturally dependent on mining, and in a secondary degree the prosperity is dependent on the railway. Q. Is there an abundance of ordinary labour in this country—white labour?—A. Yes. Their wages are from $2.50 to $3.50 a day at the mines ; that is on skilled labour. To Mr. WUson: Q. As a British subject you feel it is desirable that the Chinese and Japanese should be gradually excluded, but all you desire is that it should not be rapidly consummated %—A. Yes. / SUMMARY. The metalliferous mines yield the largest amount annually of any natural industry of the province. Out of a total yield of all minerals, including coal and coke, of over $16,000,000 for the year 1900, the lode mines alone yielded over $10,000,000. The industry has steadily increased since 1887, when the output was only $26,547, and this magnificent showing has been done almost exclusively by white labour. The Chinese are not employed in the ELootenay or in the boundary district in connection with the mines, except in some instances in getting out cordwood, and as cooks. We heard of one mine near Yale where Chinese are said to be employed as miners, and a few are employed for development work in the interior, but only to a very limited extent, and their employment in this industry has not appreciably affected its development, nor can it be said that it is dependent to any considerable extent upon this class of labour. They are not an important factor. The evidence of the large employers was to the effect that if there was no further immigration of this class of labour it would not retard the development of this industry. The opinion of those interested is almost, if not quite, unanimous in favour of excluding further Chinese immigration. CHAPTER XIL—THE LUMBER INDUSTRY (EXPORT TRADE.) TOTAL OUTPUT. By the report of the Provincial Timber Inspector of British Columbia, for the year ending December 31, 1900, it appears : There has been cut upon Crown Lands in timber 152,486,199 ft. cordwood... 19,202,900" 1 leaseholds in timber 61,140,883 " 232,831,982 There has been cut upon private property in timber. 9,745,641 " " I E. & N. Ry. land (so far as reported) 27,272,770 " Imported timber 6,386,077 " 43,404,488 04—7 98 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The cut for the year 1899 amounted to only 217,000,000, showing an increase in the total output of 59,000,000 feet. The above does not include timber cut on Dominion lands, and only a portion of that cut on the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway land. TOTAL EXPORT. The total shipments of lumber of the British Columbia mills for export for the year 1900 amounted to 84,210,553 feet. Of this large amount the Chemainus mills contributed 38,365,833 feet, the Hastings mills 23,873,782 feet, Moodyville mills, 19,312,- 482 feet, the Royal City mills, New Westminster, which are under the same management as the Hastings Mills, 1,312,100 feet, the Canadian Pacific mills, Port Moody, 687,353 feet; and the Northern Pacific Lumber Company, Barnet, 659,003. feet. It will be seen that three mills contributed about 97 per cent of the total export. EXPORT FROM PUGET SOUND. There was a total export from Puget Sound mills of 156,857,489 feet. 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I>- | 5 oo oo** • -i-ico -eo • ■* ' ■> oso . eo — t~- . . <M p^ o eo . . <m co . oo . . rH §© 00C« . . t»Tf o . . co •lj (Nt- : ;eOi-i ;■* ; ; OS 1 ; i-i p : I ! oo -oocooiooo -lO <N 5s5 co oo -iHcococseq -o 00 1 0C»O -OC^COOSO --^< t- OX .O^OSt .i-l CO QQ „ lO =s .-*COOS<NCO CO t^ bo §© ooo r-iooooeoo .O 1 oo f. OSrJi , <N t»i;i-| eo" 43 <M a eg 1 . . . • . CO ■ • .-»3 a. ; . .-** . . eg fe& -tf - • • ■ • p T3 -» H fl.2 . : : o a :a2 . W m •§ eg : --^f S-ag O «*-](» J3 43 MS iB £ 54— n [ 100 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The Hastings Mill employs 512 men, namely, 257 in and about the mills, and 255 in the camps. Of the men employed in and about the mills 164 are white men and 93 Japanese. No Chinese are employed. Of the 255 men employed in the camps, 245 are white men, and 10 Chinese, employed exclusively as cooks and their helpers. The Moodyville Mill employs 110 men, of whom 60 are white men, 40 Japanese, and 10 Chinamen. The Chemainus Mill employs in and about the mills 58 white men, 55 Chinamen, and 56 Japanese, and in the camps, 128 white men, 19 Chinamen, and 30 Japanese. It will be seen from the above that the mills who do the principal export business employ comparatively few Chinese. Edmund James Palmer, manager of the Victoria Lumber Company, at Chemainus, said : I have been connected with the company for twel"«e years. We have in the mill 58 whites, 55 Chinese, and 56 Japanese. The Chinese have been employed in the mill since February, a year ago, and the Japanese about the same time. Before that white men only were employed. In the woods we have 128 white men, 19 Chinese, and 30 Japanese. Sixteen Chinese are employed as water carriers in the woods. I never employed Japanese in the woods until three months ago. I let them a contract for grading a road. The total number employed by the company is 347, of whom 186 are whites. We have doubled the capacity of our mill. Our business is entirely export. We have to compete with mills on Puget Sound. We have three mills, the Hastings, Moodyville and our mill, doing an export business. We are the largest exporters in British Columbia. I think we exported as much as all the rest put together last year. We have never carried on our business by white labour exclusively. It is simply impossible ; we cannot do it. I think there are sufficient Chinese here at present to supply all demands. I think there are plenty of Japanese here. I do not think any business man or employer of labour, throwing all sympathy out of the question, but would be willing to pay a white man $2 a day rather than a Chinaman $1. I have never found any difference of opinion as to this; that it takes three Chinese to do the work of two white men, and sometimes it takes two Chinamen to do the work of one white man in any heavy work, if not more than that. Q. Then, do I apprehend you aright when I note you as saying you think we have enough Chinese here now ?—A. Yes, I do think we have enough of them here now. Q. And speaking of your industry, you say no serious inconvenience would arise if no more Chinese came here ?—A. I think not. White people would then move in with their familie?, and it would be a benefit to us. The change would take place gradually. It would not take place all at once; and there would be no injury to business or any inconvenience to speak of.... Q. You are satisfied if no more Chinese came in, white men with their families would gradually come in, and the question of labour would adjust itself?—A. Yes, I say so. Q. Do you think the presence of Chinese here has a tendency to prevent white immigration ?—A. Yes, if there were no more Chinese coming in white labour would soon come in this direction. That would be a positive benefit to the Province. The Chinese will never become citizens or assimilate, nor is it desirable. Q. Looking at the matter then from the standpoint of the interest of the country, and not being forgetful of your own interests, what do you say *? There is no question about it disturbing present conditions ?—A. I would say that all further immigration of Chinese or Japanese should be prohibited. What we have here now I think quite sufficient, and I think we can gradually work white labour in until we would soon have sufficient white labour in the country to answer all demands. Q. Can you compare the standard of living of the Chinese and of the white people ? —A. There could be no comparison between the living of the two nations. White people could not possibly live as the Chinese do. Very little of the money earned in this country by the Chinese is spent here. They send all their spare money, and that is more than two-thirds of their earnings, to China. We never do one dollar's worth of business in a month with Chinese. They come in on the last of the month and get their books and their Japanese are different. money, and they trade entirely with their own people. The ON CHINESE.AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 101 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 We pay Chinese and Japanese from $1 to $1.25. The lowest rate of wages paid to whites for mill work is $2. It ranges from $2 to $8. There is one paid $8, one $6.50 one $5, one $4.50, six at $3.50, four at $3.25, three at $2.25, two at $2.50, and the balance at $2. Lowest wages paid whites in the woods is from $2.25 and up to $3.75. When not on contract the Japanese get $1 a day. Chinese get $1.25 a day. I know of the Port Blakeley Mill, the Port Gamble Mill, the Ludgate Mill, the St. Paul and Tacoma, and the Bellingham Mill Company on the Sound, With the exception of the Blakeley Mill, all the other mills employ whites. The Port Blakeley Mill is the only mill that employs Japanese. Last year, owing to the excitement as to the Nome gold mining, they put in 300. They have 340 working in the Port Blakeley Mill now; they have Japanese on the carriers, on the trimmers, and everywhere. These are the principal mills we, have to compete with. They do not employ Chinese. There is a difference of one shilling and three pence to two shillings and six pence on freight rates between all Puget Sound points and British Columbia in favor of Puget Sound° It does not make any difference whether we are shipping to India, China or the Cape; they make that difference in the rate per one thousand feet. They claim the cause of it is extra pilotage charges on this side, the extra cost of supplies on this side from what they cost on the other, and sick mariners' benefit. That applies to the rate on sailing vessels. They have to pay extra pilotage, they tell us, and sick mariners benefits on this side. The pilotage would not amount to $50 on one million feet, ihe bulk of the ships carrying lumber are owned in California, and they have used that as a leverage to force the ships over there. Q What are your other disadvantages 1—A. The freight rates, then they have a market, a home market that is very wide, they can ship lumber that we cannot ship. They can ship anything that is five or six feet long to the eastern market that we have to burn up as we cannot find any market for it here. We have no market for lumber less than sixteen feet long. Their machinery costs them considerably less. A large portion of the machinery we use is American machinery. They have also a preference of from thirty-six to thirty-seven cents a thousand feet by freight vessels. . The average cost of towing on Puget Sound is forty cents, on this side it is $1, but we have an advantage being nearer the raw material. I :|| The Americans have a market for everything they cut, no matter how short it is or how inferior it is. The strongest competition we have is from the State of Oregon. Their labour is white; their common labour gets $1.75 a day without board, then- lowest class $1.65 a day. Living is cheaper over there, at least fifteen per cent lower than here. In Washington the general run of labour is $1.75 for common ordinary labour around the mill. Men sometimes only get $1.50 a day; boys cleaning up, $1 a ^ Q What proportion of your hands will be employed in the manufacture of rough lumber 1—A. At the present time I have none. We have two or three cargoes and not a bit of rough lumber in them. European cargoes take more rough lumber. South Airica takes nothing but rough lumber; Melbourne takes rough lumber; Adelaide takes ten per cent manufactured and ninety per cent rough lumber; Sydney varies from ten to twenty per cent of rough lumber; China takes a small percentage of dressed lumber. They take a great deal of rough lumber. In a cargo of one million feet they will take twenty thousand feet of dressed lumber ; while the countries of South America take quite a percentage of dressed lumber. It would depend on the cargoes ordered whether we run the planers or not. . The witness further dealt with the labour aspect of the question as follows : I would rather take white labour and pay them twenty-five cents a day more and take my chances of competition with the other side. If I could get white men to come with their families and stay here I would rather have them than any Chinese or apaQS Would it be possible to get white labour in the east to supply your demands?—- A. I am not familiar with the labour market in eastern Canada, but in Wisconsin and Michigan our Company are operating quite a number of mills. In the summer time the men work in the mills and in the winter time they work in the woods, and they stay 102 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION \ 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 there with our companies year in and year out. They live there because they have steady work and they are generally men with families, but here the white labour who operate the mill, at least at Chemainus, are a floating population. They have run away from ships or have been unsuccessful in mining, and they come here to make a little start again. As soon as the fishing, opens on the Fraser they will leave to go and catch salmon. They expect to make more money, whether they do it or not. They leave us with very little warning. I would not take a contract and depend upon them. Swedes and Norwegians are employed in a number of mills on the other side. You cannot bring them over here, at least I do not think they would come. If the Chinese were not allowed to come in any more I would take chances of getting steady and satisfactory white labour. We are an export mill and largely dependent on our shipping facilities. One ship will make a passage in 21 days and another will take 90 days for the same passage, and there are times when we are out of ships and we have to close down. Whenever we had to close down the white men would leave us. In January something like $4,411 was expended simply in holding my skilled labour together. I do not think there would be any difficulty in getting married men to come here if there were no Chinese or Japanese here. I think it is the proper way to solve the problem. I think that bringing white men and their families here would finally lead to the exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese. I do not claim that Chinese is cheap labour. We have no great advantage in having the Chinese. ....... The remedy I suggest is stop the Chinese coming in and offer some inducements for the surplus good white labour of the east to come out here. If I had my choice I would have Norwegians and Swedes with large families. We cannot pay more than $2 a day and compete with the mills on the other side. We would be better able to compete if we could sell all the lumber we produce, short and long. If we could get them to stay for a little while and get married and get to raising vegetables for themselves, they would soon stay with us. If we could not get cheap labour we would have to close down, but I do not think that is likely to occur. I think we could get white labour to supply the demand. If it were generally known throughout the east that this was not a Province devoted exclusively to Chinese cheap labour, if it was understood there was a prohibition on Chinese labour coming into this country, I am almost certain enough of white labour would come in. I do not know positively that it would come in, but if there was a call for labour the railroads would offer cheap rates, and white people would then come to the coast. It is a serious problem. There are quite enough Chinese here. I can get all I want without any difficulty. I apprehend no danger at all from there not being enough Chinamen. The wage has got to be regulated by the price of the-manufactured product. Everything is more prosperous when you are paying big wages and getting more for your product. If they have a good market in the United States they are not likely to compete with us over here. I employ Mongolian labour from interest. Chinese and Japanese will never take the place of white men in cutting timber. They are no good in the woods. If you want to improve the stock in a country you import good stock from the east or from other countries. If you are figuring to settle up a community and open up the country Japanese are no good. In the east eighty per cent of the men are married and have their families with them. We will say for instance we want to employ thirty on the wharf. I have got to have thirty men for the work before I can go on at all. No white man will work with Chinese. We have got to put in all Chinese or all white men. If we had a class of labour coming in here who would not consider it a degradation to work at menial work there would be no difficulty. At the present time the demand for white labour is far in excess of the supply. We do not want a servile class here. There is a dignity in all kinds of honest labour. The American lumber trade has not been injured as a result of the exclusion of the Chinese. They seem to be able to compete with us right along, although we have the benefit of low-priced Chinese and Japanese labour. White immigration from the east ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 103 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 has come in and taken the place of Chinese and Japanese labour over there. At the time they had trouble with the Chinese, the export of lumber did not amount to more than fifteen million feet, and to-day that has increased to two hundred million feet. Exclusion certainly would do no harm here. I think it would be of great benefit. I am in favour of total exclusion. I think we have enough of the Chinese here now. Richard H. Alexander, manager of the Hastings mill owned by the British Columbia Mills, Timber and Trading Co., says : We employ all together in and around the mill and in connection with it, 257 hands, and in connection with the camps, 255, total 512 ; in the mill 164 whites, no Chinese, 93 Japanese. The whites' duties are in connection with the operation of the machines and marking. The Japanese are employed in and about the mill trucking lumber and piling it. Japanese are paid from ninety cents to $1.25 a day. White men run from $40 to $45 a month. Five sawyers from $4 to $5 a day ; and files, there are five of them, paid $7 a day. Some other men are paid from $3.25 to $3.50. Of the men in camp 245 are whites, the rest are Chinese cooks, ten altogether ; no Japanese. Average wage for white $2.25 to $2.50 per day; overseers a good deal more; Chinese cooks possibly $40 or $45 a month. I may say in connection with the mill there is another matter that can be fairly included ; when we have three vessels at the wharf we generally employ about fifty stevedores. They do not figure on our pay rolls because we do not employ them directly, although they are as much a part of the business as the others. They are one- third or one-fourth Indians ; the' others are whites. The Japanese are all in inferior positions with the exception of the lath mill, at which there are six or seven of them at the cutoff saws and trimmers. We first engaged them twelve years ago. We have always had in the mill a certain proportion of cheap labour. In the early days we had Indians. They gradually got off from working in the mills and we replaced them by Chinese. On account of the strong feeling against the Chinese we discontinued them, and we have since been using the Japanese, but we have always had a proportion of inferior or cheap labour in and about the mill. The Indians were not crowded out by either the Chinese or Japanese. They worked for less but they got their board, and that would make their wages equal to $1 a day. At that time we had an Indian ranch close to the mill, and the Indians all found work in the mill. That ranch was removed and they went and lived on the other side of the Inlet. Another reason may have been that during the construction of the railway they could get more profitable work with the contractors. There is this difficulty about the Indians, you cannot have them steadily; you cannot get them to work steady. Japanese are steadier than the Indians and they are stronger in some cases. A Chinaman will go along like a machine and do the same work every morning until night at the same rate, steady as a machine, but the Japanese has got more spirit, and if he sees the machine crowding him he will put on a spurt and keep the machine clear. The Chinaman will let the machine block up and will want another man to help him. The Japanese is better for the work than the Chinese in the way I mention. I have resided in the country 40 years, over 31 years here. In 1862 there were Chinese in the country, most of them had come from California. They worked in laundries, market gardens and in domestic service. A great many of them were engaged in placer mining up the river. Q. Speaking of the Chinese exclusively, do you think there are sufficient in the country now to meet the requirements, or to meet the demands ?—A. I do not desire to say anything about them. My desire is to confine myself to my own business, what I know. Q. Are you in favour of further immigration of the Chinese ?—A. I think that information should come from some person who employs them. The question is that we have always had a certain amount of cheap labour in connection with the operation of the lumber industry. It is quite possible that white labour would be generally profitable if we could get it under the same conditions, but as I understand the question of restriction, the object is to replace oriental labour with white labour. 104 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 As it is at present the white men cannot work at the rate of wages that the Japanese do. Now if the Japanese were replaced by white labour at a higher rate of wages, on the industry there can be but one result; we would either have to raise the price of the article produced or shut down the manufacture altogether. In our case the article manufactured has to be exported. It has to meet competition in the markets of the world with the same commodities of other places ; and not only that, but in the operation of your trade there must be sufficient remuneration to pay interest on the capital invested. We find we have not even our own domestic market to ourselves. We find owing to the present state of the industry that we are subjected to the competition of lumber coming in from the United States, which comes into Canada free of duty. In the United States they manufacture lumber under conditions which are better than ours. We have to pay duties on our supplies, on all that we use; machinery and tools, whilst they do not pay any duty, and we have to come into competition with lumber produced there under cheaper labour. We may have a little cheap labour here, such as the Japanese give, but against that we have to put the cost of transportation and other advantages we do not possess. It is not in our power to increase the price of lumber. We cannot obtain the white labour at such a low rate of wages as would enable us to compete. We have to look very carefully for the white labour we want. The Japanese supply the want of the proportion of cheap labour that is necessary to compete in the markets of the world. The point is this : we have always had a certain proportion of cheap labour, and in order to compete successfully we must have it, and having that cheap labour we are enabled to employ white men in the higher branches of the industry. Allow me to impress on the Commission again that if the Japanese are replaced at a higher rate of wages in the manufacturing of lumber there can be no other result but one : we would have to raise the price of the article produced, or go out of the business. Of the total number of men employed, ^12, there are in round figures eighty per cent, of whites as against 20 per cent, orientals, and if you include the fifty men I have spoken of in the loading of ships, the proportion of whites will be still greater. Of the percentage stated the whites received eighty-eight per cent, of the wages and the orientals not twelve per cent. The proportion, you will see, is about one Japanese to four white men and the four men get seven-eighths of the wages. In connection with our business at the Hastings mill, the total wages paid last year was $277,376.15, out of which the whites received $245,369.35 and the orientals $31,806.80, and, as I have already said, if you include the men working in the ships it will be still more for the whites. Every ship will average more than a million feet, and at that average the wages paid will be more than $1,000 on every ship. It seems to me it is for you gentlemen to judge whether it be advisable by doing away with this factor of cheap labour to risk the stoppage of the industry, and not only hazard the large amount of money there is invested, but hazard the employment of the white people. Whether for the sake of excluding one Chinese or one Japanese you would run the risk of throwing out of employment four white men with all the families dependent on them, and they pay more money away for supplies. It is with no feeling of hostility at all to the white men that I state this. I do not think the subject has ever been fairly placed before the intelligent workmen of this province. It is all very well for those who do not know anything about the industry to say there will be no injury to any trade or calling by the exclusion of the Japanese, and that no industry would be inconvenienced if the Japanese were replaced by white people, and that the industry should be allowed to go rather than that Japanese should be employed in it, but I do not think they understand what they are saying, with all due candour. You may ask me if there is not sufficient margin to allow high wages to be paid. I will just give you an example of that from a letter that only came to me yesterday. I got a letter dated April 19 from a prominent lumber purchaser, who writes saying that his firm is about buying a cargo at $8.50 on the American side, less two and a half and two and a half, or about $8.09 net; that is the cost they tell me on the American side. The vessel we should use, should we secure the contract, for carrying the lumber would have to get one shilling and threepence extra for coming to this port, coming to ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 105 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 our mill, so the writer of the letter sets forth; deducting this, say 30 cents from $8.09, leaves $7.79 that the lumber can be purchased for on the American side. The writer of the letter says : ' If you will sell us this cargo at the same price, say $7.79 per thous-. and, we will give you the preference.' Now there is the true position of the lumber industry at the present time. Now, the logs to-day at the different camps are held at $5 a thousand ; the towage will be 75 cents a thousand. I may say that is low. The Government get a royalty of 50 cents a thousand; throw that all together and it makes $6.25; taking that from $7.80 it leaves $1.55. Now, then, that gives you an answer to the question whether the industry is able to pay more, is able to increase the cost of manufacture. Now, if you take the 93 Japanese that we at present use in the Hastings mill and replace them with white labour, it would necessitate an increase in the cost of production of $93 a day; if you divide that by the amount produced per day it will raise the cost of production on the average 70 cents per thousand feet. Now, there is no mill in British Columbia that under present conditions could afford to increase the cost of production 70 cents per thousand feet and operate successfully financially. Q. You have not given us the cost of the management of the mill %—A. Well, I am not going to give away our business to the public. Q. What kind of lumber was that ?—A. It is an ordinary merchantable cargo of lumber. I am not at liberty to state the name and authority of that letter. It is a private letter. The writer cannot be obtained to give evidence ; he is not in the country. I will show it to the Commissioners and convince you that it is a bona fide letter. It is from a perfectly well-known man, from a real purchaser, and the quality of timber is the ordinary timber sold in the market, not a low quality, not at all. We cut a higher grade as well. We cut the lower grade also. It is piled up in our yards and we cannot get rid of it. (The letter referred to was shown to the Commissioners.) We ship lumber as far east as Nova Scotia, and we can only ship the better class, the higher grades, as it is the only lumber that we can afford to pay freight on for the east. There one of the great competitors that we have is the pitch pine that comes from the Southern States, which is manufactured by the aid of cheap labour of the negroes in Georgia and Carolina. We have to pay $20 a thousand between here and the eastern provinces, and we have got to compete with that lumber produced in the east by labour secured at very low wages. If we send to South Africa or Australia we are brought into competition with lumber from the Baltic, manufactured under much more favourable conditions as to cost than we can possibly command. In Sweden or Norway they pay a sawyer 4 kroner a day, equal to $1.05, the ordinary labour 54 cents. These figures I got from a Norwegian captain. A man with a family can live very comfortably there on from 40 to 54 cents a day. Then, again, I see in the mercantile reports that from the Baltic to Melbourne a vessel will get 65 shillings per thousand feet. In South Africa we will be on something like equal terms. I think we exported out of the province last year about thirty million feet, including what went east, and exported out of the country twenty-four million feet. It may be a coincidence and nothing more, but you will find that the mills employing the largest number of orientals did the biggest export trade. We had to refuse business continually last year because the price offered was too low for us to sell our lumber. I do not think the oriental question is a matter of sentiment at all, it is a matter of interest. In order to employ a large number of whites we have to employ a large proportion of cheap labour wherever it comes from, whether white, black or yellow. Our principal foreign markets are Europe, Australia, China, Chili, Peru and Africa. For the last year there has been very little business done with Africa. There is a very weak demand in the foreign markets at the present time. The producing capacity of the oldest lumber mills to-day is largely in excess of the demand. Principally rough lumber is shipped to China. The trade is increasing with Japan. The Japanese are going into ship-building and they are importing sizes of lumber that they cannot get anywhere else but on this coast. Their trade is well worth cultivating 106 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 There is less competition in China and Japan than in any of the other countries. The only competition we have there is with our friends on Puget Sound. They ship more than we do. The things that enter into the cost of production of lumber to-day we pay higher for here. We pay higher for all mill supplies. All our supplies to our camps we pay more for. We have railroads with regular locomotives on regular standard track, and we use what are called donkeys for hauling out timber by a wire rope on a drum, using for that purpose steam power. At one camp we had four and a half miles of railroad, at another we had three miles. These rails are being lifted up and put into other places as the camp is worked out. We haye all the modern means at our command, both for getting out logs and for manufacturing lumber at the mill. Our waste of lumber is not greater tha'h on the other side. They get their supplies cheaper and they have a market for all they produce, which we have not, which makes a very material difference. I do not think there is a mill in British Columbia as advantageously situated as ours; at the present time we have access to the sea, and we have good railway communication. The railway runs into the yard. I do not agree with Mr. Palmer's statement that he would be able to continue business even if they had to employ white labour exclusively. The question of freight rates is an intricate one. A very important matter that is taken into consideration by vessels coming from the Baltic, is, that if there is a possibility of securing a return cargo to Europe they will take a very low rate to bring lumber. The head offices for vessels are in San Francisco and they work it up as against British Columbia. If a man wants to load a vessel in British Columbia he would want one shilling and threepence to two shillings and sixpence more than he would want on the other side. The only remedy that I can see for that is by the government facilitating the building of vessels on our own side. There is a subsidy paid by the United States, a bonus for their vessels. I think it is one and a half per ton for the first 1,500 miles, and one per ton for each additional 100 miles; that is on the registered tonnage. You say how did we compete with the Americans in the years gone by. There is this difference in the freight and the duty and other things that act against us that we cannot get the same prices for the lumber. The mills over there have come to some arrangement between themselves as to prices. Q. Does the Canadian Pacific Railway give as low rates to the east as those given by the American railroads to the mills on the Sound ?—A. I think they do to given points. We are barely living now, barely making a profit. When there was excitement in Vancouver about the Chinese and the men objected to them, we got white cooks in the camp at English Bay, and in a few days the men ran them out. If it did not increase the cost of production we would rather have white men. -I do not approve of these people coming in here as citizens. I would prefer to see our country peopled by our own race, from a national standpoint. If you want to know my opinion from a political aspect I say personally I should rather prefer to .have white men as citizens. I would not like to see the Chinese and Japanese obtain the franchise. I would not like to see our country governed by them. I should not like to see any further immigration of them to enter into competition with white men. They could not adapt themselves to our political economy. From the standpoint of sentiment I would prefer oUr people to the orientals. Q. Do you think there would be an increase of wages if there was practical exclusion,—increase of wages to the Chinese and Japanese themselves ?—A. I do not think immediately, but I think it would have that result before very long. I do not think it would be brought about immediately, but as the number gradually decreased and there were no more coming in, those here would ask for more wages. I have objection to the Chinese and Japanese becoming citizens. I would prefer if it were possible to have all the work done by white labour, by our own people. I should not like to see the'Chinese assimilate. That would not apply possibly with equal force to the Japanese. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 107 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I really think the mill men in British Columbia would be perfectly willing to compete with United States if our lumber was permitted to go in there as their lumber is permitted to come in here. There has always been an objection from the earliest time in British Columbia to the Chinese. People do not like them; that is the amount of it. The Japanese do assimilate to a greater extent than the Chinese. I produce a statement of shipments of lumber from British Columbia and Puget Sound to the various points mentioned in it. It is made up from the figures in the Trades Journal, which I think will be found to be correct. I may say the markets in Sandwich Islands are not included in that, and the California market shipments, which would increase it a great deal more. John G. Woods, superintendent of the Moodyville Sawmill Company, Vancouver, says : We employ 110 men, 60 whites and about 10 Chinese and 40 Japanese. We pay whites $30,$40 or $50 and up to $140 for foremen per month; Japanese 90 cents a day and their board, and from that up to $1.25 a day. Their board by the year costs 33 cents per day per man. Five or six of the Chinese are engaged as cooks and in gardening, the other five Chinese are at contract work, doing the lathwork and the pickets. They work the machine just as well as whites. We have a Japanese edger man, and the Japanese run the trimmers ; formerly that work was done by white men. When Japanese leave we put on white men. There is no absolute rule about having whites or Japanese to do the work. I think that is all. Japanese will do as much work as whites at less wages. I see no reason why the Japanese will not be able to do any work a white man can do where cleverness is required. I would very much prefer white men if the conditions were equal. Sometimes the Japanese leave us; during the fishing season they will pull out and leave us short- handed. I have not gone into the question of immigration sufficiently to give you an opinion worth anything. To my mind there is no fear of the Japanese encroaching on the industry and getting the work from the white men. I think their proportion is about right now. I do not think there is any fear whatever of the lumber industry going into the hands of the Japanese. We would shut the mill down before that came about. The Japanese are only engaged in the lower class of labour, just the cheap labour. There are not many white men hunting for work who want to work. If we had not I Chinese I guess we could fill all the positions in the mill with white men, we could get them here. Q. Why not get them now ?—A. Because we could not run the mill, unless we could do it and lose money. For positions filled by Japanese at $1.25 a day we would have to pay a white man perhaps $15 a month more. I think if we had to pay $750 a month more than now, the mill would be shut down, or the white men would have to scale down their wages. The price of logs eight or nine years ago was just about the same as they are now. For the last five years the Moodyville Mill has just about held level without the owners getting one cent of interest. Previous to that the mill lost largely. It is not in as good a position for the foreign trade as the Hastings Mill, because they have local trade as well as foreign trade. We work for the foreign trade. There are about forty cargo mills on the coast. It may be here noted that the three witnesses above referred to represent eighty- one and a half millions of the total export of eighty-four millions. The further evidence bearing upon this branch of the trade is very short. The evidence of the witnesses here quoted will be given at greater length when we come to deal with the local and eastern trade. v Robert Jardine, local manager of the Royal City Planing Mills, New Westminster, says: There are a great many export mills on the Sound. The lumber from those mills, not suitable for the foreign market, is disposed of in California, Hawaii and Alaska. From the reports from there I understand they are making money; making good profit all along the line. We could produce as cheaply in this- country if there was 108 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 no tariff entering into the cost of production. Our timber is as easily gotten out as it is on the other side. I would prefer to see the Americans throw down their tariff wall; that would be more important than the difference in the cost of production. Q. If that condition prevailed would you be able to dispense with oriental labour; that is if you were put on the same footing as American lumbermen ?—A. If we had white people here to fill their places, no doubt it would have a tendency in that direction. As to the export business, we have shipped a few cargoes from here. At the present time we employ 266 men in the mill, shingle mill, factory, steamboats and logging camps, and in the machine shop and sash and door factory, 180 white, 57 Chinese and 29 Japanese. We find white men more adapted for the work in the woods. Chinese and Japanese have never been employed in the mills in what you call skilled labour, except as shingle sawyers and packers. We employ Chinese in packing shingles exclusively. Henry Depencier, manager of the Northern Pacific Lumber Company, situated at Barnet, nine miles up the Inlet from Vancouver, says : We employ 91 men at present, of whom 45 are white and 46 Japanese. We do not employ Chinese; we never employed them. I think two good white men will do as much work in a day as three Japanese will do. I prefer the white men. I have been engaged in business 34 years, formerly in the Ottawa Valley. We haye shipped two vessel loads to Australia, and we have shipped some lumber to Ontario and some to Quebec; they come to us for lumber they cannot get there. I am manager for the Maclaren Ross Lumber Company on the Fraser River. It has a capacity of 150,000 feet a day. It only ran for a few months and put out a few cargoes. It was shut down because the market was not good, and they thought they could not run it profitably. Q. Not even with Chinese or Japanese labour?—A. I don't think they could at all. Q. It was not the labour question at all ?—A. Not at all. J. A. Say ward, of the Sayward Lumber- Mills, Victoria, says : Our market is principally local. We have exported lumber to Australia, China, Japan, Great Britain and Scandinavia. We are in competition with the United States in all the places I have mentioned. We have not continued shipping, because we have enough trade at home. Andrew Haslam, Mill owner . of Nanaimo, says : If no more Chinese or Japanese were permitted to come in I do not think it would cause any injury to, my own business individually; as I am situated now it would not cause me any injury I think. If I had to go into the foreign trade and had to compete with the low wages of other countries it might hamper me. I think we have enough of Chinese here now. As far as my knowledge goes as to other industries in the province, I think they could get all the labour they required for any length of time, but they will be better able to speak for themselves ; but the largest exporter of lumber I find is not in favour of allowing any more of the Chinese to come in. There is enough here to supply all demands for some time to come. I think I am in touch with the other lumbermen in the country. I think I know the conditions under which they do their business. I do not think it can be considered a profitable business at the present time ; there is no particular reason but the dullness of trade. I have tried to make clear what reasons I have; the increased cost of everything that comes into the production of lumber, and apart from that is the excessively high freights. • Freights from British Columbia to any foreign port are very high, and in addition to the general high freights there is a specific charge made on lumber from every part of British Columbia of sixty cents per thousand feet of lumber, giving the Puget Sound men an advantage to that extent. The ship owners contend that the harbour dues and the pilotage and customs dues are higher, in British Columbia than they are on Puget Sound, and that it is worth sixty cents per thousand to make the freights equal to the ship owners. They have a large field of their own for lumber; they have a large number of vessels of their own, and a great many of the charters are made through San Francisco people, and I have understood and I believe it is a fact that our dues are higher, and to start with, we must pay sixty cents more per ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 109 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 thousand in order to get a vessel at all. Apparently the shippers on Puget Sound control the shipping at present. There is an attempt to blame the people of British Columbia that the charges are higher than on Puget Sound. There is a great deal of lumber at the present time cannot be shipped at all, owing to the excessive freight rates. If all the mills employed exclusively white labour at the present rate of wages I do not believe there would be a cargo shipped out of British Columbia profitably in a year. With a foreign trade, where you are competing with the lumber and the cheap competition of other countries, of course you are governed by the-cost in those countries. If we are allowed an open market to purchase our supplies it would be even more effective than a duty upon American lumber. If they allowed me to have the articles in free of duty I will guarentee to employ nobody but white men about my mill and in my camp. John V. Cook says : I was tally man and inspector in the Hastings Mill, of which Mr. Alexander is manager, up to last Saturday. Have been thirty years in the lumber business, eleven years in this country and prior thereto in the province of Quebec. I have worked seven years at the Hastings Mill. The Japanese have increased at the Hastings Mill. The Chinese and Japanese take the place of white labour. There would be sufficient white labour to replace the Japanese and Chinese. I judge this from the amount of white labour I see applying at the Hastings Mill and refused. I have seen as many as ten or fifteen a day apply, and some days only one or two for common labour, more especially during the last eighteen months, but more or less all the time I was there. The last two or three days before I left they applied to the mill foreman. There are a great many white labourers unemployed. I favour further restriction of the Chinese and Japanese. My idea is the Japanese are more dangerous to the white man than Chinese in the lumber business. I don't think the $100 prevents the Chinese from coming in very much. I would exclude more coming in of the working class, because I think we have enough white labour to do the work they are doing. If we had not enough I would still exclude them. I would try to get white labour from other countries. I don't think they are a benefit to the country. I would not like to see the Japanese and Chinese mix with the whites. As far as I can see it is not true that mills cannot run without cheap labour. I think the mills can run altogether with white people. You can employ Japanese at $1 and whites at $1.50 a day. I think sufficient whites at $1.50 could be employed and the difference in work would compensate a great deal. Two whites will do as much as three Japanese, or perhaps four, in handling lumber. I have heard it said that if they did not employ Japanese, and they left the country, the whites would get saucy and go on strike, or something of that kind ; that is what some of the mill men told me. I had nothing to do with engaging the men. They came to me first; I was tally man and handy to men coming into the mill, and I sent them on to the foreman. There seems to be a good many idle men. For two months in the summer not so many come for a job. I was in the mill business on my own account in the province of Quebec. I had a large experience. I paid from $1 to $1.10 a day. From what I can figure out, from their own admissions, they must have considerable of a profit: I refer to the statement of Mr. Alexander. I read the account that Mr. Alexander gave us to the cost of logs got out for the Hastings Mill; that amounted to. $6.25 a thousand. Then Mr. Alexander went on to show, to figure up the cost of production, and the whole amounted to something like $7.80 a thousand. He figured that the margin between $6.25 and that was very small, but he forgot to say he would get 25 cents a thousand from the government rebate. I know that up to the first of the year they got a rebate of 25 cents a thousand from the government. Some say they get it now, and some say they do not. That is what I understand. I simply take Mr. Alexander's figures, what he is reported to have said, and draw my conclusions from that. At the same time, when he read from a letter to the Commission something about $7.80 being offered by some firm on the other side for a cargo of lumber, he forgot to tell you that that was for the cheapest kind of lumber in the cargo, and at the same time there would be a large quantity shipped in that cargo that would bring over $20 a thousand. They would be well paid for sawing, that is, with a rebate. He figured that the logs cost him $6.25, now you can figure it out for yourself; it is a very 110 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 easy calculation. That would leave a margin of $1.80 on that particular class of iumber, which is the lowest class of merchantable lumber. Now, the selected lumber he would get a much higher price for, and there is a quality of lumber that is superior to what is called 'selected lumber,' and he would get a still higher price for that. I am figuring on what you would get for the lowest class of lumber; the margin on that would be as I say, $1.80. As to the cost of cutting the log into lumber, I would say it costs about $1.10 from the time you take the logs into the mill and have it cut into lumber and put on board the ship ; that would leave a margin of profit on the lowest class of lumber of 70 cents a thousand feet; that would be the profit on the lowest class of lumber put out by the Hastings mill. In vessels loading at the Mills I understand the captain makes a bargain with the stevedores for loading and he pays for the loading. The lumber is supposed to be taken on the wharf ; it goes right out of the mill on to the wharf. If there is no vessel there to load, the lumber is piled on the wharf. They ship merchantable, select, and clear lumber—three classes of lumber. Merchantable is sound rough lumber, sound knots ; in merchantable lumber some few knots are allowed and perhaps a little sap and a little waney. In select lumber but very few knots are allowed, and no sap is allowed and no waney. Clear lumber is lumber that has no knots and is not affected by sap in any way. They ship lumber from 16 to 40 feet in length, sometimes under. They would not ship as short as 6 feet. They would not ship much short lumber in a year, that is for the foreign trade. There might be a hundred thousand feet of lumber shipped, in lengths of from 6 to 8 feet, and then there would be quite a quantity shipped in lengths of from 12 to 15 feet; most ships take a good deal of that. The most of the lumber shipped would be merchantable lumber, the next would be select lumber, and the smallest quantity would be clear lumber, and the prices would go up accordingly. I should say there would be $8 a thousand difference between merchantable and select lumber. I have allowed quite enough in $1.10 for labour and cutting; I did not figure on the cost of machinery separately. The proportion for repairs would be so small I did not figure on that. There is a proportion to be charged for wear and tear of the machinery, and so on, but in the working of a large mill like the Hastings Mill that proportion is very small. As to interest on the money invested, the $1.10 ought to cover all that, and there is the cost of office work and management so-called, all that has to be taken into account to get at the cost of production of the lumber ready for shipment. The Company get their logs as cheap as any other Company, they run camps of their own, they run their own stores, have their own tow boats, and everything else. I made out the price of the outside prices given by Mr. Alexander. I think they can be taken as very outside figures at that; that is, they are working figures, no mistake about that. There is towage to be added perhaps. They have insurance. I think 70 cents is too much to cover incidentals in what we call rough lumber. He figures, if he did not employ Japanese, on an increase in the sawing of his lumber of 70 cents, I cannot see how he can possibly make that out. He admits he employs 93 Japanese at an average of $1. Another mill man has admitted that two white men do as much as three Japanese on an average. We will replace those 93 Japanese with 70 white men at $1.50 a day, the amount would be $105. The difference between 93 Japanese at $1 and the 70 white men at $1.50 a day would be $12. The mill turns out 140,000 feet a day, so my figuring out is, if he employs white men he would only raise the cost at the outside, 10 cents a thousand feet. There should be no off days. That would include accidents that are not paid for by the insurance. The mill was idle by reason of fire once for nine months. As to the lowest grade of lumber, I know what the others are sold for, I know of another cargo of lumber where the average price was $8.50 for 16 to 24 feet lengths of rough lumber- I do not wish to give you anything but what you can rely on. From 16 to 32 feet, $8.75, from 33 to 40 feet $9.25, that was all merchantable lumber. Select lumber in that cargo was $12. There was no clear lumber in that. That was in the month of March last month. That is not hearsay, I saw the figures. That was the Moodyville Sawmill Company, I tallied the ship. It was for the foreign market and was shipped on board the vessel. The price of lumber does not vary very much in the local market, it may vary a good deal in the foreign market. I have not seen the prices of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 111 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 give you the any other cargo. I tallied the ship in the month of March. I cannot name of the ship just now. I expect to work at some of the mills again, and perhaps if I get too particular I will not get a job. Q. What was the name of the ship?—A. The Tregethoff I think. The cargo was for South America. I did not quit the mill of my own accord. I had some misunderstanding with the mill foreman, not with regard to wages or with regard to this matter. Q. Although you tallied the quantities of lumber put on the ship, how did you know the prices ?—A. I saw the prices after I tallied the ship. I made up a statement in the book. The prices are put down in the book, and the quantities multiplied by the prices, the whole was carried out in the book. I have that book in my possession all the time. The bookkeeper puts the prices in these. I worked myself in the Royal City Mill eleven years ago, trucking around the yard, piling lumber, trimming, and all kinds of roustabout work, and I got $47 a month. Q. The prices you gave for the cargo shipped on the Tregethoff, was that free on board ?—A. I do not know anything about that. I gave you the prices as I got them from the bookkeeper. I do not know whether the mill had to pay for the loading or not. The cost of loading comes out of the freight; as a rule the loading comes out of the freight. Q. What percentage is culled ?—A. We do not send culls to the yard, but we make fire wood out of the culls. Q. What percentage out of the 140,000 feet would be culls ?—A. Very small; we are not supposed to put culls in that. Were we to put in the culls it would make a great difference. The log measurement or the measurement as it comes from the saw would tally about 160,000 feet; 140,000 feet of that would be what we could sell as sawn lumber of different grades and qualities ; sometimes there would be 20,000 feet to go to the wood pile and sometimes less. I cannot very well say the percentage. Five per cent of the 140,000 would be 7,000 ; well, perhaps that would be a fair estimate. The price of culls is from $3 to $4 a thousand. They cut the culls into firewood and sell the firewood at $1 a cord. I do not think the mill men are speaking by the truth. To Mr. Cassidy: I think he gave it Q. And so you do not believe Mr. Alexander's evidence ?—A. in his own favour. I do not say Mr. Alexander bed by any means. Chairman—Mr. Alexander did not favour us with any information as to what he sold at. A. Mr. Alexander puts it in the best light that he possibly could for the lumber interest; he said they were not able to get along without employing a certain amount of cheap labour in the mill—oriental labour. My idea is that we can do very well without the oriental labour, and make a good profit at the same time. Mr. Cassidy—Your idea was Mr. Alexander was wrong ?—A. Yes. Q. And that he did not know his own business, and that he was coming here and was telling us something that was not so ?—A. Will you please be good enough not to put words into my mouth; my idea is we can get along very well without oriental labour. Q. Would you like to put it, he came here and was disingenuous and did not know his own business ?—A. What I say is, you have the figures, and figuring in the way I have done, which is plain I think to you, we could do without oriental labour. I have never tried running a mill of my own in this country; I had nothing to do with the management of the business at the Hastings Mill. Q. Do you mean to say you made a calculation of the whole cargo ?—A. That was a very easy thing to do ; there were so many thousand feet of 16 to 24 at such a price, so many thousand at 26 to 32 at such another price, and so many thousand feet at 33 to 40 at such a higher price. Q. And you made a calculation as to what was the whole amount ?—A. I simply put the figures in the book as I was instructed to do. I did not do any more than I -was obliged to. 112 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. You did not actually calculate what the price of the whole cargo was ?—A. No. Q. The price of different kinds of lumber vary a good deal, and the value of the cargo will vary a good deal according to the kind of lumber that it is composed of ?— A. Certainly; part of the cargo generally sells a little higher than the merchantable lumber. If it is cut to particular sizes it will sell a little higher than a general cargo would. I had a copy of the order ; the bookkeeper gave me a copy of the order ; the prices were not on it; the prices were put on by the bookkeeper, and I had to make up a statement that the different qualities of lumber were taken into the ship. There were certain sizes in the specifications ; when I would fill a certain size I put it into the book until the whole shipment was completed. I do not know whether there was any discount; I should judge there would be. If I read Mr. Alexander's evidence aright, in the $7.80 there would be a discount of 2^ per cent and 2J per cent. So I suppose the same thing would be carried out over there. In the Hastings Mill the Japanese run the wood-saws. In the old mill there was not a Japanese upstairs outside the stampers, unless a shortage of white men. In the new mill a certain number of Japanese are employed. There used to be five white markers, now there are three Japanese markers. The Japanese can with experience run the big saw. I think in time they will employ them in higher positions. The Japanese instead of boys, being employes, our young men have not got the chance to learn. In the east boys are taken into the mill; they start in as boys and become engineers, foremen, sawyers and the like. In father's mills the boys started at wheeling sawdust and worked up. The Japanese tend to prevent that class of labour from coming in to the coast. I have advised them not to come. I have written to at least a dozen in the last two years not to come, because Chinese and Japanese are here. There is no lull in the industry except that they could not get ships. I think they make a profit. They may sell a little cheaper than local mills. I think the additional trade, if whites were employed, would compensate for all loss. There is no benefit to me by my evidence rather the contrary. I will take my chances. These people do not compete with me. I have eleven children, seven boys. I think the outlook is gloomy for my boys. I have no ill-feeling against these companies. I suppose you may say I was dismissed last Monday. I think they can do without Japanese labour. I am in a position to judge. I don't merely think ; I am sure I can replace 93 Japanese with 70 white men. If he gives me two days I will put up security that I will get 70 white men at $1.50 a day to do the work of 93 Japanese. I tally ; I see that the orders are filled, and that it is properly graded. Mr. Alexander's offer that he mentioned was a very cheap offer. The Japanese have not families. They rent a house, and a whole lot of them live together. I thi%k the logs do not cost any more today on account of using a different scale than when they paid less for the logs. The price of lumber to-day is higher than formerly in the local market. I have seen ro«gh lumber sold at $6 and $6.50, now it is $9 per thousand. Dressed lumber sells for all prices, the cheapest is $10 to $12 up to $20 and $22.50. Forty per cent goes to the ship, sixty per cent goes to the yard. Sixty per cent of the sixty per cent goes to the interior. The whole of this is finished lumber that goes to the interior. The remaining forty per cent of the sixty is not finished. It was a private dispute between the foreman and myself that caused my dismissal. Robert James Skinner, Timber Inspector for the province of British Columbia, says : I think the occasion of the depression that took place in the lumber industry in 1891 was the first thing that reduced the rates of wages for the production of bolts and things of that sort; not so much the depression in the country, as the fact that the foreign market for our products dropped away to a very low rate. Q. Does the foreign market control the prices in the local market %—A. In a way, yes. When the foreign market is good the effect is to raise the value of the logs in the hands of the different logging companies. It creates a demand for them, and therefore ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 113 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the prices raise. The mills here then have to pay for the logs. Of course, increased demand creates better prices, and as the lumber put on board ship represents a great deal of labour, it is spreading a great deal more money through the industry generally. With foreign competition lumber has to be put on board the ship at a low rate. I do not know of a single mill that is making money. They cannot compete I think with Puget Sound Mills and Baltic Mills with that cheap labour. The shipping of Baltic timber affects the market in Australia, South Africa and Europe. I think the labour conditions in the Baltic have something to do with it, and freight rates also. The chief market for British Columbia lumber is Great Britain I think, and Australia comes next. Probably from one-sixth to one-fifth of our total export Is to China. It has not improved lately. It was improving up to the time of the present disturbance over there. The Japanese trade is not much yet. I think the possibilities for the lumber trade in China would be very favourable as soon as peace is declared. To China I think the proportion of planed lumber is small. I do not think the mills with their present business can exist^ can live, if they are put to any further expense in the cost of manufacture. I am in favour of the exclusion of Chinese and Japanese personally. From* an individual point of view I am of opinion that it would be the best thing for the country, and now is the best time I think to introduce it; I mean total prohibition, for both Chinese and Japanese. I am not prepared to say that is the best move for the general prosperity of the country, but that is my opinion. At the same time I want to say there are people of our own race in the country to do that work, the work the Chinese and Japanese do, and there are people from European countries who would do that work, who will ultimately become British subjects and good citizens of our country. The contingency of the industries closing down by being compelled to employ white labour is too remote to be considered here. To exclude the Japanese and Chinese altogether I judge would be the best thing for the province. Matters would soon adjust themselves to the new condition of things. I think it would be a great pity to go so far as to close the industries down; it would be a dangerous risk, but as I say, that contingency is a very remote one. There are two sides to the question. The whole question resolves itself I think as to the difference between employer and employee as to the rate of wages to be paid. It is largely a wage question. I do not see how in doing the lumber business the price of wages, or rather the price of work is going up, unless at the same time you can induce people in other parts of the world to pay you more for your lumber. There has been a great change in the market abroad within the last eight or ten years. You will remember there was a great financial panic in Australia, and that business to the extent of something like one hundred and twenty million pounds sterling failed. That acted on our industries here very severely and we have not yet recovered from that. Logs are higher than they were in 1891 and 1892 ; the facilities for putting the logs in the water are not so many as they were then. I think the difference between the price of logs and the price of lumber is narrower now than it was then. Ever since March, 1888, rebates on the royalty have been allowed. Last session the rebates were removed ; that is the condition of affairs now ; rebates are not payable on exported lumber since the 1st of January, this year. The rebate was one-half of the royalty paid, providing the timber had been shipped beyond the limits of the province. It was intended to encourage the export trade, granted by the legislature in Victoria. AMERICAN EVIDENCE. W. Sherman, of the Bellingham Bay Improvement Company, Washington, stated: We employ about 350 men; no Chinese or Japanese. We export lumber to South America, Australia, Hong Kong and Japan, and also ship to San Francisco, and east of the Rockies. The average wage paid to unskilled labour is from $1.75 to $3 per day, and to skilled labour up to $4 a day ; average $2.50 to $3.75. There is no difficulty in getting labour. We buy our logs. There are no Chinese or Japanese employed on the Bellingham Bay and British Columbia Railway. 54—8 114 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 A. S. Martin, secretary of the Puget Sound Sawmill and Shingle Company, Fairhaven, Washington, says : Our principal product is dressed lumber; our market the middle states ; none sold in Canada. We employ 265 hands. We get out our own logs. We have 110 employed in logging camps. We never employed Chinese or Japanese. Chinese and Japanese are not generally employed on Puget Sound, only. at one mill, at Port Blakeley. Minimum wages for unskilled labour is $1.50 per diem; there are only about ten men working here for that wage. At present $2 is our minimum. Wages run up to $5 and $6 ; average $3.33^- per diem. The lumber mills at Puget Sound exporting are : the St. Paul and Tacoma Lumber Company, of Tacoma; the Port Blakeley Mill Company ; Pope & Talbot, of Port Gamble; Bellingham Bay Company; the Tacoma Mill Company, of Tacoma. These mills practically do all the export business. They export principally rough lumber. The sentiment here is opposed to both Chinese and Japanese. If the matter were put to a popular vote, not a Chinaman or Japanese would be allowed in town. There are no Japanese here. There are not fifty Chinese in the county outside the canneries. Mr. Stetson, a partner in the Stetson and Post Mill Company of Seattle, who is engaged in the lumber business in that city, says : We employ altogether 125 men ; we get all the men we want; we employ no Chinese or Japanese, and have not employed them within the last 15 years. The average wage paid.is $2 a day for unskilled labour; it ranges from $1.75 to $2.25 and $2.50. Sawyers are paid from $3.50 to $4 a day. The question of the abrogation of the Exclusion Law never comes up. The question is settled. We were in business here when the Exclusion Law came into force. No industry has ceased because of it that I know, but I can hardly answer the question offhand, because the law has been in force, and its action has passed out of recollection. I do not remember it having any effect. I know of no desire on the part of business men or on the part of men having capital invested in different industries to abrogate the law so far as regards the Chinese. Our chief market is at home ; we do not export a great deal of lumber to foreign markets. The Port Blakeley Company, I understand, employ a great number of Japanese in and about their mill. I have a natural preference for our own people. We buy all our machinery here in the city. William. H. Perry, assistant general manager of Moran Brothers, Seattle, said : We operate a sawmill in connection with our plant, and employ about one hundred men in our lumbering department. We do not now and never have employed either Chinese or Japanese. Our trade is principally local. We pay a minimum wage of $2 a day. Men who operate the planers are to a certain degree skilled labour; we pay them $2.25, $2.-50 and $2.75 a day. Neither Chinese nor Japanese labour is employed in the lumber mills in the city of Seattle or in the neighbourhood to my knowledge. We find we have to compete, however, with mills where they do employ Chinese and Japanese labour, at Port Blakely, twelve miles across the Sound—the largest mill on the west coast. Q. Is there any desire among what may be called the capitalistic interest to abrogate the Exclusion Law ?—A. I think they are satisfied with it and desire it to continue. The employing class in this district are in favour of Chinese exclusion as a rule, although there are some small sections where they might favour the Chinese, where they think they require low-priced labour, some men who think they might get along better with low-priced labour, but I think the number is very small. The feeling in the city and in the state is overwhelmingly in favour of the exclusion ©f the Chinese. They are not considered a desirable element in the community, for the reason that they do not and will not assimilate with us, and I do not think it would be desirable if they would assimilate. They do not take any interest whatever in our laws or institutions. If you had to choose between an immigration of the one or the other, I would prefer the' Chinese, that is if it was immigration of the better class of Chinese; but ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 115 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 taking the class of the two races that come here, I would prefer the Japanese ; we find them inclined to follow our methods and customs, and become good citizens, and take an interest in our affairs, and as a rule they are law-abiding. We find that the Japanese whom we have here, try to build up trade relations between this country and their own. The same objection applies to the labouring class of the Japanese that applies to the labouring class of the Chinese. We have not had many Japanese labourers in the city, and I do not know much about them. The Exclusion Act was in 1894; the high tax was in "1884; the last Act became law in 1894. I do not believe it was felt. I do not believe it was noticed* I do not believe that one per cent of our business community knew when it became effective. Of course there had been years of preparation for it—a high head tax. The suggestion was then made that total exclusion would come in time. Theodore Ludgate, lumberman, of Seattle, says: I have been engaged in the lumbering business here about a year. I came from Peterborough, Ontario. I employ 140 men in my mill, exclusive of teamsters ; in all from 150 to 155. I buy my logs in the open market. I do not employ either Chinese or Japanese. The lowest wage we pay is $1.75 a day to roustabouts, men who are here to day and are to be found some place else next week. We pay $2 a day to a great many; $1.75 a day is our cheapest labour, and it runs from that up to $5 a day. The filers get $5 a day, the planer foremen get $3.50 a day, and planer feeders $2.50 a day. Q. Do any of the mills with whom you come into competition employ either Chinese or Japanese labour ?—A. Not in the city or its neighbourhood ; the only mill employing Japanese is the Port Blakely Mill, nine or ten miles across the Sound from here. Their trade is very largely, if not almost entirely, foreign. We export very little. Our trade is chiefly local. It was my intention at one time to locate on the Canadian side and to employ white labour exclusively. In fact, in order to get at work up there, and get the position we wanted for our lumbering, we offered to give a bond that we would not employ either Chinese or Japanese, either in the mill or outside the mill, in our business. I was quite willing to go into competition with the lumber mills already established there and employ white labour altogether. I inquired into the condition of the lumbering industry there, spent a good deal of time looking it over, and I was satisfied I could carry on lumbering there without employing either Chinese or Japanese. As I said, I spent a good deal of time in inquiring into the condition of trade, as to the procuring of logs, as to the price of machinery and the cost of labour, and I came to the conclusion I could carry on the lumber business there profitably, employing exclusively white labour. If I were building a mill there to-day I would not be afraid to employ all white men and come into competition with the mills where they employ Japanese and Chinese. That is how I regard white labour; that it is the best, and in the end comes the cheapest. The Chinese and Japanese are not desired here at all. I think if the conditions here were as extreme as they are on the Pacific coast of British Columbia to-day, there would soon be a remedy .applied, and these people would be shut out, and white people as citizens of the country would have the protection that they ought to have. • Public sentiment only requires to be wakened up to have this thing rectified. There is everything in favour of the lumbering industry being carried on in British Columbia profitably without the aid of Chinese or Japanese. I do not want to go into much conflict with the people engaged in the lumbering industry up there. Of course, not having carried on operations there, it is possible there might be some obstacle that would be experienced that to a man who had no experience in active operations on the ground would not at first be apparent, but apart from that I am perfectly satisfied if I had a good mill up there to-morrow, I would not be afraid to compete with those already in the business in British Columbia. - Lots of mills are being run to-day by labour of the Chinese and Japanese, which is supposed to be cheap labour—and I question if it is cheap labour—that should be run by steam. Some of the mills have been- equipped with machinery in years past and modern machinery has got ahead of them. I would not be afraid to go there and equip a mill 54-8£ 116 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 with up-to-date machinery and make a profit, and a good profit, out of lumbering operations, and in operating employ only white labour, and pay them good wages. I am a British subject. I have seen all the mills up there; I have been through most of them. The Hastings Mill was in process of construction last time I saw it. The Brunette sawmill in New Westminster is a fairly good mill. Prior to the fire in the Hastings Mill I thought the Chemainus the best mill in British Columbia. Q. Most of the mills up there are in pretty fair shape to do work ?—A. I do not think they are. We have done a little export business right along ; as soon as we get rightly into shape we can do a good deal more. We find it very good. I am speaking of the export business to Hong Kong and Japan. Vessels are coming here all the time, and another steamship company are going to build docks just outside of here. They are calling for tenders for construction just now. We pay from $4 to $7 a thousand feet for logs ; $6 would be a fair average for a good run of logs per thousand. Spruce costs from $6 to $6.50. The mill owners in the city are associated together for mutual protection and benefit ; that is for the local trade. Rough lumber is sold at an extremely low price, to compete with mills outside, who only manufacture rough lumber. We sell our rough lumber along with our better class lumber, and thus we are able to even up in the local trade. We would not sell rough lumber at association price unless the buyer agreed to take something else with it. We are engaged in the shingle business in a small way for local trade. Our capacity is forty millions. We are now making about fifteen millions. The shingle market is in good shape. Our market is Seattle and its neighbourhood; we do not ship into Canada. . I do not know of other mills who do. They are busy enough endeavouring to supply local trade the same as ourselves. We do not fear competition with British Columbia because of the duty. It may be lumber can be manufactured cheaper here to-day than in British Columbia, for the simple reason that living is cheaper over here, and I think that first-class mill machinery is a little cheaper here than in British Columbia. The cost of labour is a little less. A man can get logs cheaper at the mills here. The loggers here are more continually occupied than in British Columbia ; they go into it more extensively. The Government here does not collect stumpage dues as in British Columbia. The Government here sell the land, timber and all. I think the stumpage tax is higher in Canada than the land tax is here. We have an extensive market here. There is a great amount of rough lumber sent east. The market is improving in Japan for good lumber, but not much to speak of * * * Neither Chinese or Japanese cooks are employed in the lumber camps, nor in getting out lo^s or shingle bolts, or about the shingle mills. They cannot work with those fellows at all. Wages are not controlled by the union ; they are controlled by the demand. I have found white labour reliable and I have always found all the labour I wanted. The fact that this is the starting point for the North-west keeps labour well supplied here, but the men do not settle here; they are generally looking for something better. In Seattle there is generally a good demand for labour, but we have generally been able to get all the white labour we want without difficulty. There is very Kttle agitation against the Japanese here, because they are not employed in the mills, except in one case that I know of. Q. Can you compare the difference in the cost of machinery here and in British Columbia ?—A. American machinery of course would cost more laid down there, than if it was laid down on this side. Q. Js the Canadian machinery suitable for the lumbering here, the machinery manufactured in the east ?—A. Yes, I do not see why a man could not use Canadian machinery for manufacturing lumber. I have not compared the cost, but I think that a good deal of the machinery there would compare favourably in cost with the machinery 1 here. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 117 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Do you know, the difference in the price of machinery such as you have in the mill here, and the same machinery on the other side ?—A. Well, I was greatly interested and made careful inquiries there a couple of years ago, so as to ascertain the difference, if any, in the cost of machinery for a mill between the Canadian manufacturer and the United States manufacturer, and I came to the conclusion that it was practically nothing. For heavy boilers and engines and heavy machinery for working in the mill I think the difference is practically nothing between the Canadian manufacturer and the American manufacturer. At the same time, I think there is a large amount of American machinery going into British Columbia, but that may be accounted for by the fact that the manufacturers here are turning out a large quantity of mill and other machinery, and that certain parts of mill machinery are manufactured almost exclusively by certain firms, and the workmen get more expert, and the machinery turned out by these firms is supposed to be better than that to be obtained in the open market. There are large factories making one thing, making one machine, and their energy is being directed to the improvement of that. They turn out a better machine than the manufacturer who is engaged in general machinery work. Then they have a large market and they can afford to sell their products much cheaper. I should say that common white labour is higher in British Columbia than here; a labouring man can buy more for a dollar here than he can in British Columbia. All I do know is, that when I tried to go to work there I could get all the men we wanted at $2 a day; here we pay $1.75 a day. We were then in good shape to get all the men we wanted for $2 a day. Q. What is the price of lumber in Hong Kong ?—A. We sell it f .o.b. here or delivered at the vessel's side. Q. Are you at liberty to state what it is worth here ?—A. Nine dollars and fifty cents for ordinary common lumber and for flooring $16 or $17 a thousand; that is for green dressed flooring $16 or $17 a thousand. From the report of the Chamber of Commerce»of Seattle for the year 1901 it is stated that the cargo shipments of lumber from the State of Washington in the year 1901 aggregated 492,765,000 feet and rail shipments 284,280,000 feet. The lumber cut of the State of Oregon is over 500,000,000 feet. SUMMARY. The export of lumber last year from British Columbia to foreign countries was over 84,000,000 feet; of this, three mills—the Chemainus, Hastings and Port Moody—exported about 97 per cent. The Chemainus, which exported 38,000,000 feet, employ 186 whites, 74 Chinamen and 86 Japanese. The Chinese have only been employed, except as cooks, within the last eighteen months. The manager says : We have doubled the capacity of our mill. I would prefer to pay double the price for white men. We use no Chinese or Japanese in the woods, except for grading and carrying wood and water. If I had my way I would have Norwegians and Swedes with big families. I am in favour of an exclusion act. We have enough of them here.' The Hastings Mill exported 24,000,000 feet. They employ 512 men, of whom 93 are Japanese and 10 Chinese. The Chinese are employed exclusively as cooks. The general manager of this large concern thought harassing enactments a mistake, and as to the Japanese the arrangement should be by treaty, and added : I don't approve of them as citizens. There is no chance of their becoming citizens. This applies to both Japanese and Chinese. If they were excluded, wages would not increase immediately. It might have that effect. The Moodyville Mill export about 20,000,000 feet and employ 110 men, of whom only 10 are Chinese and 40 Japanese. Of the Chinese, five are employed as cooks and five on contract work at so much a thousand, running a machine for pickets and staves. So that none at this mill are employed in the export trade. The North Pacific Lumber Company employ 91 men, of whom 45 are whites and 46 Japanese. No Chinese are employed. ^y"^yyw— 118 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 So that the only exporting mill that employs Chinese, except as cooks, is opposed to their immigration; the others do not employ them except in the limited way above mentioned, and are, therefore, not deeply concerned in the question so far as their exporting trade is concerned. The largest exporter stated that the lack of white labour here will-only be remedied by the exclusion of the Chinese, when the change will take place gradually; white people will then move in with their families until we would soon have sufficient white labour in the country to answer all demands. We agree with this view. The wages in British Columbia for unskilled white labour varies from $35 to $45 a month. On the American side for the same class of labour, white labour commands from $1.75 to $2 per day. In most cases, so far as our inquiry went, $2 was the regular wage for permanent hands. This applies exclusively to unskilled labour ; so that our investigation would seem to show that so far as this particular element entering into the cost of production is concerned, the advantage seems to be with the Canadian mills. Upon the other hand there is undoubtedly a better supply of white labour on the American side. The cost of logs seems to be about the same. Most mills on the American side buy their logs. The large exporting mills on the Canadian side have lumber camps and get out their own logs. The cost of logs on the Canadian side we find to be $6.25 a thousand at the mill. On the American side the average was stated to be from $6 to $6.50 per thousand. The mill owners stated that pilotage and freight rates are slightly higher on the Canadian side; that most of the ships carrying lumber are owned on the American side, and charters are more difficult to obtain, and that they suffered under the further disadvantage that their machinery costs more, and that they are not protected in their home market; and that upon the whole the cost of all mill supplies, which in any case is limited in comparison with the wide American market, is greater than on-the American side; and that under present conditions, cheap labour of some kind is necessary in order to enable them to carry on their business at a profit. Chinese are not employed on the American side in any of the lumber mills, and Japanese are only employed in one mill, having been taken on about a year ago during the gold excitement at Nome, when a numbea of their men left. It is clear from the evidence that so far as this branch of the industry is concerned it does not depend to any considerable extent even now upon this class of labour, and the exclusion of further Chinese immigration would not appreciably affect it. (The question as to how far this industry is dependent on Japanese labour will be dealt with when treating of Japanese immigration.) ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 119 CHAPTER XIII—THE LUMBER INDUSTRY. LOCAL AND .EASTERN TRADE. The following list shows the principal mills engaged in the local and eastern trade, and the number of whites, Chinese and Japanese employed therein respectively : Name of Mill. Sayward Mills, Victoria. Munsie Mills .. m camp. Haslam Mills, Nanaimo. ■i ii in camp North Pacific, near Port Moody... Robertson & Hackett, Vancouver. Royal City, Vancouver Brunette Mills,* New Westminster Royal City ■■ Shield's Mills, Kamloops. Yale-Columbia Mill Company (mills at Robson, Nacusp, Cascade, Roche Creek, Deadwood). Hillyer's Mill, Nelson Buchanan's Mills Kaslo m (0 & at M "I-i 1 6 60-70 30-40 10 17 25 0 • 39 13 125 0 45 0 80 0 79 11 168 10 180 57 30 3 200 f3-4 40 0 t10-50 0 s o 0 0 9 0 46 20 60 78 29 9 0 0 0 + As cooks. According to season. The export mills already referred to produce a large amount of lumber, which comes in competition with the mills that supply the local and eastern trade, and there are a number of other mills throughout the province not included in the above list, but the above are sufficiently representative to fairly represent this trade. Joseph A. Sayward, engaged in the lumbering business in Victoria, says : I employ from thirty to forty Chinese and from sixty to seventy white men. The Chinese are employed in carrying and piling lumber, and in the mill, as well as attending some of the machines. They are all ordinary labourers except one. I pay the Chinese from $1 to $1.50 a day; white men $2 up to $4.50. I have employed Chinese for fifteen years. My father operated there for forty years before that, but we never employed Chinese up to that time. The reason for introducing Chinese was that it was impossible to get other labour. We formerly employed a good many natives, Indians, here, whom we paid from $1.25 to $1.50 a day. The Chinese took the place of the Indians, and in some cases the place of the white men. I prefer Indians to Chinese. The Indians go to the canneries. The difference in wages was not the cause of the change.. The Chinese are good workers and reliable. -W'l am in favour of restriction. I do not believe we any more Chinese coming into the country. I think what we sufficient. I think the gradual change would cause no serious in- Speaking of my own trade, I would favour restriction. It would interests of the country. I think the Chinese are detrimental their mode of living, and in keeping whites from coming in here. should have have here is convenience, be to the in every way general in White labour could not exist under the same conditions. If we were paying $2 a day to labourers we would be obliged to raise the price of lumber. Cheap labour is necessary at the present time ; if we had to employ white labour it would mean the closing of the mills. . I would restrict this class of labour, because I think the business would naturally seek its own level. We would get the same labour as the Americans get to-day, which we are not getting at the present time, I mean Swedes. I do not know any reason why 120 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 we could not introduce such labour now. I think if I could get Swedes as they have on the other side I would be perfectly willing to allow the Chinese to step down and out. I would expect to pay them something more, because I could get a good deal more work out of them. I think I could get along with fewer men. As I said before, the Chinese are here and we have never been placed in a position to ask for that class of labour,— the Swedes. We naturally employed the Chinese and never asked for any other labour. Q. Now, if they, the Americans, can get Swedes there, why isn't it possible for you to get the same class of labour here 1—A. Owing to the fact that the Chinese are here. Q. And the Swedes would not be disposed to come here under these conditions %— A. Thatis the idea. Labour has had a tendencyto delinea little compared with ten years ago. I think the Swede would do half as much more, and in some cases twice as much, as the Chinaman. He is stronger and better adapted to the work. The $1 Chinese would be employed moving timber about the yard. I think we would be able to pay the Swede from $1.75 to $2 a day. A white man with a family of three would be able to live respectably on $1.75 a day. I rent cottages at $4 a month at Spring Ridge ; one at $2.50 a month, that is a four roomed house. I should think from $8 to $10 a month a fair thing for a workingman's house. I think there are sufficient Swedes and Norwegians on the American side now to come in and take these positions. I think French Canadians would come here and work at $1.75 a day. William Munsie*, of Victoria, lumberman, and engaged in the sealing business, says : I employ fourteen Chinese in the mill at from $1.25 to $1.75 a day, and three in the yard at from $1 to $1.25 a day. The cook gets $30 or $35 a month. I employ 10 white men in the mill and 25 in the camp. I pay the white men in camp from $30 to $125 a month with board ; $30 a month for ordinary labourers, and $125 a month for foremen ; intermediate wages $40, $50 and $65 a month. If no further Chinese were permitted to come in I do not think it would make any difference in our mill; I think it would naturally find its own level. It might be a temporary inconvenience. I prefer to exclude any further immigration. I do not like our country to be invaded with foreigners of the type of Chinese and Japanese. The white man with the present cost of living here could not live on the same wages that a Chinaman can. I would not like to see white men brought down to that level. There are different classes of labour we could get if no more Chinese came in,—Swedes, Norwegians and French Canadians. It would take some little time to get that class of labour ; it would gradually find its level. I do not think there would be any difficulty. The change would take place gradually and matters would settle themselves,—equalise themselves. The class of white labour we have now is skilled. I would be willing at any time to exclude the Chinese and take our chances of getting white labour; it would right itself in time. It might inconvenience us a little temporarily, but in time it would regulate itself. Q. Has there been a scarcity of labour in general for the last three or four years ? —A. I do not think so. We have always been able to find labour. We should first of all protect our own people, give the labour to our own people, and when it comes to a time that there are not sufficient of our own people to meet the demands, then it is time to bring in foreign labour. I wish to restrict further immigration. As the country goes along and progresses there will be sufficient coming in here of our own people to meet all demands. I would consider the French Canadians coming here with their families much more desirable than the Japanese. Andrew Haslam, lumberman, of Nanaimo, says : I employ 26 white men in my mill at an average rate of wages of from $1.85 to $4 per day, and 13 boys ranging from 62£c. to $1.45 a day, averaging $1; 13 Chinese from$l to $1.25 a day, averaging $1.04 ; 9 Japanese from $1 to $1.15, average $1.02 ; that is at the mill and factory. In the logging camp I employ 125 men at from $2.25 to $4 a day, average $2.78 ; one white boy at $1.85 per day, and a Chinese cook and Chinese helper at $1.75 and $1.40 a day. The total wages per month $3,845 for white men, $363 to Chinese and $140 to Japanese. The men pay for board at the camp $5 a week. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 121 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I do not employ Chinese in the woods, they do not understand the work. I pay the white men more because they are worth more. I think the difference in wages indicates the. difference in value ; that is of course altogether depending on the work they are at. I I ran my mill for seventeen years with white labour exclusively, until nearly two years ago. The profits got so small we could not afford to pay white men on this outside work, that is work outside the machines. There is an increased expense in getting timber out of the woods, and an increased expense in everything that enters into the production of lumber. The price is somewhat less than four years ago. Everything entering into the production of lumber, machinery, food supplies, tools, everything that has entered into the production of the lumber ha? raised in price. Owing to the fact that American lumber comes in here free of duty, we can only raise our lumber to such a price as they cannot sell at. Our principal market is local, Nanaimo and the immediate vicinity. The Americans do not bring lumber into this town. They compete with other mills and those mills drop into a trade I would probably get if they were not here. If we were allowed an open market to purchase our supplies it would be even more effective than the duty on lumber. I have a list here showing the difference between us and Puget Sound. Horses 20 per cent higher in British Columbia than Puget Sound, wire rope 25 per cent higher, logging engines without additional freight 25 per cent, axes 25 per cent, saws 30 per cent, mattox 50 per cent, shovels 35 per cent, cant-dogs 50 per cent, steel rails 30 per cent, additional freight $2 a ton, locomotives 25 per cent, potatoes 30 per cent, butter 25 per cent, beef 35 per cent, pork, 35 per cent, flour 13 per cent, eggs 25 per cent, mill saws 32 per cent, planers with the duty and freight costs 30 per cent more, saws with freight and duty added costs 32 per cent more, these are mill saws. The first saws I mentioned were the saws for the woods. Then the general machinery used in the mill on an average I would say costs about 30 per cent over the price on Puget Sound. There is only one article we have as cheap here as there, that is the bull chain with which we haul the logs into the mill. We buy that in England ; it is a heavy shop chain and it comes in here at 5 per cent duty. Q. Is it the duty that makes the difference ?—A. Well, I think there is the freight; of course that goes in the same direction. In the first place the wants of British Columbia are not large enough to justify the Canadian manufacturer building machinery especially for the timber that grows here. The general class of machinery that they make is not suited for the timber here. Q. What is the remedy you propose ?—A. Admitting those articles free of duty, or putting it on the lumber, but I think it would be the better remedy—the mills would be better satisfied—to have the articles come in free. . If there was duty on American lumber it would not act so effectively I think as letting the articles I mentioned in free. There is as much profit to the mill owner on Puget Sound at $7 per thousand feet ■£s we have here at $10. The cost to the manufacturer of lumber over there, according to my own exact figures, is 27 per cent less than the manufacture here. Q. Would that enable you to employ white men1?—A. Yes ; if they allowed me to have the articles in free of duty I will guarantee to employ nobody but white men about my mills or in my camp. I am certainly in favour of employing white men. My own idea leads me to that. I do not wish to employ either Chinese or Japanese if I can do without them. There is this in favour of the Chinese and Japanese, they are very reliable and they have done their work well; but on the other hand, when I employ white men the money they earn—the money I pay them—is spent in the country, and my business would be benefitted by more white people being here; the more white people, the more demand for labour; more money would be kept in circulation in the country as well. From a higher standpoint I certainly consider it is in the interests of the country that it should be peopled with white people. The Orientals do net assume our customs or habits, nor the rights of citizenship, nor anything of that nature that I know of, not to any extent. If no more Chinese or Japanese of the coolie class were permitted to 122 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION I 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 come in, I do not think it would cause any injury to my own business individually. As I understand it now, it would not cause me any injury I think. I think there ought to be a restriction placed on them. Confining my opinion exclusively to my own trade, I think we have enough Chinese here now. Q. What is your view as to any more coming in ?—A. From my own individual requirements there are enough of the Chinese here now, and as far as my knowledge goes as to other industries in the province, I think they could get all the labour they required for any length of time, but they will be better able to speak for themselves; but the largest exporter of lumber I find is not in favour of allowing any more of the Chinese to come in. I say there is enough here now. . I should say thirty per cent of the lumber I manufacture is dressed lumber. Henry Depencier, manager of the North Pacific Lumber Company, near Port Moody, says : We employ 91 men at present; of these 45 are white and 46 Japanese. We have only been started a few months. We do not employ Chinese. We never employed them at all. I am a Canadian, born in Ontario. As to restriction, I prefer not to answer. The French Canadians who come here are much better men than the Japanese. We could afford to pay them fifty per cent more. They are not worth fifty per cent more at machine work, but at the ordinary work around the mill they are worth that much more than the Japanese. James W. Hackett, of the firm of Robertson & Hackett, who employ eighty white men and twenty Japanese, and are engaged in the sash and door factory business, says : The whites are our customers. We sell very little to Japanese or Chinese. We tried to run our mill without Japanese. We found it was necessary to have a certain amount of cheap labour. We had to compete with others who had cheap labour, besides cheap white labour is very unsteady. You can get labour for $1.50 a day, but they won't stay with you. If others had employed exclusively white, we would. We don't employ Chinese. They are not required for our business. I think there are more Chinamen in the country now than can be profitably employed. I observe a number who are not at work. I don't think the $100 will keep the Chinese out if there is profitable employment for them. I have tried to keep clear of them. We had a white man wheeling saw-dust, and the rest of the men called out, 'That is a job for a Chinaman.' I don't want Chinese here. I have not a Chinese cook in the camp. We have a white man, and he is satisfactory. We pay him $2 a day and his board. Our men are a very sober class of men. (See further evidence of this witness in part relating to Japanese.) Robert Charles Ferguson, manager of the Royal City Lumber Planing Mills, Vancouver, who employ 150 men, of whom 60 are Japanese and 11 Chinese, says: If no more Chinese and Japanese were admitted I would be satisfied for the present time, but I don't think we could do in the future. ... I do not know whether I would favour restriction or not. It may be well to restrict for a time, but a man has to be governed by. the wants of his business. The French Canadians who come here are all good and steady when they come out here. If we had them here they would be better than either the Chinese or the Japanese. (See further evidence of this witness under part of the report relating to Japanese; and under chapter relating to shingle business, where the eleven Chinese above mentioned are exclusively employed.) A. Lewis, manager of the Brunette Sawmill Company, New Westminster, that employs 168 white men, seventy-eight Japanese and 10 Chinese, says : Q. Are you in favour of any restriction on the Chinese coming in ?—A. I do not want to give an opinion on that because it does not concern me. I think I could get along without the Chinese. I am speaking from a mill standpoint. Of course, some Chinese are as important to other mills as the Japanese are to us. (See further evidence of this witness relating to Japanese.) Robert Jardine, the local manager of the Royal City Planing Mills at New Westminster, said: We turn out all kinds of lumber and shingles. Employ 266 men, of whom 180 are white men, 57 Chinese and 29 Japanese. Pay out $160,000 in wages, of which 87f per cent is paid for white labour and 12^ per cent to orientals. Chinese are ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 123- SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 paid from 85 to $1.35, average $1 ; Japanese, 85 cents to $1.40 per day. White men are paid from $35 to*$125 per month. Other wages are as follows :— Filer, $3.40 a day; sawyer, $3.00 ; re-sawyer, $3.50 ; edgerman, $1.75 ; gang-saw, $1.75 ; boom men, $1.75 to $2.00; machinists, $3.50; apprentices, $1.00 ; blacksmiths, $2.50; helper, $1.35; carpenters, $3.00 to $3.25. The number of men above mentioned include those employed not only in the sawmill and shingle mill factory, but also on the steamboats and in the logging camp. The- number employed in and about the mill is 197, of which 109 are whites, 2 negroes, 57 Chinese, and 29 Japanese. The Japanese came in in 1897. Prior to that Chinese were used. In 1897 we had a number of white men employed that filled the positions now held by Japanese, and they left and went fishing, and we were compelled to get whatever labour we could; probably eight or ten left, and more gradually left. It is not the difference in wages, but the difficulty in getting men that we employ Japanese. We- require cheap .-labour and the Chinese is the kind we have. We have to have cheap- labour, or shut our business down, because two thirds of our cut is shipped east, to the- North-west Territories, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec and as far east as Halifax. If" we had to employ all white labour at from $35 to $40 a month, it would amount to $1,000 a month or over. We would have to pay 60 per cent more. We don't feel the competition so much in the local trade. We have a price list between the different owners. It is not always adhered to. I don't imagine that the Chinese that are here would die off so suddenly as to affect us very materially^ The Chinese are very steady. If we get a good man we keep him. I see no reason to think we would not keep those* still. I cannot say if further Chinese did not come, whether it would or would not affect ! our trade. We have got to have a certain amount of cheap labour; it does not matter what it is, whether Chinese or Japanese, under existing conditions. We only use 29 Japanese. I prefer whites. The Chinese do not adopt our mode of living. They learn some of the bad habits of white men. I don't think they are as beneficial to the coun- try as white men. I suppose the employment of Chinese and Japanese, and that white labour has to compete with them, does keep white labour out to a certain extent. Pos-. sibly that class of labour could be induced to come from the east if orientals were left out. They have not been coming, and I don't expect they will while there is abundance- of oriental labour. Q. For a moment disassociate yourself from your business ; do you see any means of inducing a large settlement of white people except by the exclusion of the orientals T —A. Well, I do not know. When the lumber business is quiet, you would be compelled either to shut down entirely or run half time, and of course we only pay our men for the hours they work. Under such a condition it would be very difficult for a white man to live working only half time. Q. Does that arise from over-production ?—A. It is the case of supply and demand.- I have seen it here three or four years ago when lumber was selling for actual cost. I have seen lumber sold here at $6.50 a thousand; that was at a loss. Q. No cheap labour could save you from that condition of things %—A. No, but if we had all white labour the loss would have been much heavier. We would have been compelled to shut down entirely. Our cannery business runs from $30,000 to $60,000 a year. Last year our totals output was $240,000. We can't compete with any of the mills east in any lumber they can manufacture,. We ship lumber they cannot get there. It is practically an order which cannot be filled* in the east. Logs are about the same price in the state of Washington as here, but all supplies used in the mills and the logging camps and provisions are very much cheaper over there; machinery, belting and everything in connection with the running of a sawmill is cheaper over there. Q. Would it make much difference to you if everything that enters into the cost of production of lumber were admitted free 1—A. I would prefer to see the Americans throw down their tariff wall, then we would like to sell to them over there. That would be more important than the difference in the cost of production. (See further evidence of this witness referred to in shingle business.) 124 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Alexander Shields, manager of the Kamloops sawmill, said they employed 42 men, of whom 30 were whites, 3 Chinese and 9 Japanese. Have employed Chinese and Japanese nine months; they work outside the mill. Prior to that they employed all whites. The average wages to whites is $2.60, including office staff, Chinese $1.12, Japanese $1.10; excluding the office staff the average wages would be*$2.30. He says : We had some difficulty in keeping whites. We shut down for a while, and the men were then discharged, and when we started we brought in Japanese. The whites were not invited to come back. The management is in favour of further restriction. I would restrict it so no more would come in. I think there are enough here. In the logging camps we employ about one hundred men, all white. We prefer them. We would not have Japanese or Chinese. I think the Japanese are more desirable as a class than the Chinamen. I don't think any serious loss would result if no more came in. In the sawmill business it is necessary to have cheap labour. Our market is in the North-west and local. We come into competition with the coast mills. Our management would favour no more coming in. John C. Billings, secretary of the Yale-Columbia Company, that have mills at Robson, Nakusp, Cascade, Roche Creek and Deadwood, and have places of business at Rossland, at the different mills, Greenwood and Phoenix, says : We employ two hundred men; all are white men except three or four Chinese as cooks in the camps and at the mills. The market is local, the C. P. R. principally, and the mines. The company don't desire any more orientals to come in. None of the other mills in this district employ Chinese. We have to compete with American lumber. Competition is very keen. I have no use whatever for the Chinamen. I think the Japanese are better men. The average wage of labourers is $40 a month and board in camp, and piling lumber, or $2.25 a day and board themselves. There is no trouble in getting men—fairly well supplied. Charles Hillyer, of Nelson, employs forty men in and around the mill and sash and door factory. He says : All are white men—every man. I pay unskilled labour $2.25 and $2.50; skilled labour $3, $3.50 and $4 a day. My market is local in shipping to the mines. I compete with the coast, Vancouver, Tacoma, Portland and Spokane. Competition is keen. The Chinese question affects me in this way : I have to pay men here—working men can't live here less than $1.50 or $2 a day, and with family $2 to $2.50. The unions are strong here, whereas my strongest competitor (mills at the coast) can get labour for two-thirds of what I am paying in the city of Nelson at the present time. I have one of my strongest competitors close to me, the Sayward Company of Victoria. They have a branch here. They do not employ Chinese or Japanese here. They bring lumber from the' coast, sashes and doors. We buy most of our logs from loggers, and most from the American side. Not one Chinese or Japanese is employed in the camps by loggers from whom we buy. Have resided in the province seventeen years. I favour further restriction. I am talking as a manufacturer. I would exclude them entirely. If any restriction can be put on it ought to be done. In fifteen years there will be very few white men working in the sawmills. If I compete with the coast mills I'll have to put my white men out and put in Chinese. I could not do business here if I did so, because the white men will not trade. This is the most strongly union section of the whole Dominion. If Chinese and Japanese came in freely for twenty-five years, the white man would be the slave and the Chinese would be boss. I mean the Chinese and Japanese would supersede the whites in the labour market. White labour will have to seek some other kind of employment. I will have to put in Chinese and Japanese within two years. The Chinese have increased about four hundred since I have been here. There are about six hundred Chinese here now. All are British subjects in my mill. You can put a Chinese in any position a white man is in, and he will do anything a white man can do. Inside of twenty years some of the Chinese will be presidents and managers of the mills. More rough lumber and sashes and doors are shipped in here from the American side than from the mills of the coast of British Columbia. George O. Buchanan, proprietor of the saw mill at Kaslo, says :— I employ from ten to fifty men according to the season. The logging camps are in the winter when the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 125 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 mill is not running. I employ nb Chinese or Japanese except occasionally as cooks. I don't think the Chinese are affecting us in Kaslo to any extent. I am not in favour of putting restriction upon anybody as far as I am concerned. I do not know that the tax paid when coming in is altogether unjustifiable. We are all liable to pay taxes, and there may be nothing wrong in the Chinese paying a tax when comjng in. I think it is probably enough as it is. The Chinese are human beings, and I do not believe in the oppression of any race of men, even an inferior race. I don't think they should be admitted to the franchise. I do not think they could assimilate or take part in our laws or institutions. I think all kinds of men should be free to come and go and make their homes anywhere it suits them. I don't think them a desirable class to come into the country. ' God made of one blood all the nations of the earth.' Stephen Jarrett, superintendent of the Vancouver Sash and Door Company, who employ thirty men, all whites, says : We employ only skilled labour—only three or four unskilled workmen. We pay unskilled, $1.50 to $2 ; skilled workmen, $2.75. We start young lads, two every year at $1 a day, and they advance 50 cents every six or eight months. I have been here twelve years. I never found any difficulty in getting men. If I want two men I have twenty applicants, both skilled and unskilled. I don't think there is sufficient whites to supply all the demand. I would be in favour of a heavy head tax, say $500 each. I think if no more came in, no inconvenience would result to the industry here. I wanted five skilled men this week ; already I have fifteen applicants. We cannot ship our product into the Kootenay country in competition with the mills of Tacoma. The freight rates are cheaper from Tacoma. Our duties on doors and windows, I think, is 30 per cent. Our machinery is about 20 per cent higher than on the other side. William C. Dickson, book-keeper and yard-foreman at the Royal City Mills, Vancouver, said : The great objection is to work side by side with a Chinaman. I have seen white men turn away rather than do it. There is not much sentiment in it. There is a principle involved. This should be a white man's country. (See further evidence of this witness in the part relating to Japanese Immigration.) Truman S. Baxter, has resided in Vancouver since 1890, says : I am studying law at present. I am president of the Vancouver Liberal Association and ex-alderman of the city. When I came here I commenced working in a sawmill. I got $26 a month and board. Wages were paid in the city a year ago last winter at $17 a month and .board. In 1890 all of the labour around the sawmills was white, except a Chinaman or two taking care of slabs. To-day the Japanese and Chinese handle all the lumber in the yards, and in the mill, running saws. It has been stated before the Commission that the wages here are higher than on the American side. Last year I had occasion to go to Seattle to find out the condition of labourers there, and the figures I give are taken from the Seattle Lumber Company, and I saw the cheques, so that I know the figures were paid. The foreman was paid $6.00 a day; sawyer, $5.00 a day; filer, $5.00 a day; yard foreman, $100 a month; planing mill foreman, $3.50 a day and men on carriage, $2.50 a day. The lowest wage paid anywhere around this mill was $1.75 to two or three new men. Two dollars is the ordinary wage for unskilled workmen. Our mills here pay the 20th of the month, for the previous month. There the men are paid every Monday night, receiving wages up to the previous Saturday night. There are no Chinese or Japanese at all. I also went to Ballard. At Stinson's Mill five hundred men are employed—not a Chinaman or a Japanese among them. The lowest wage was $1.75 and the highest wage was $2.50 a month. At this mill there were eighteen edgers or knot sawyers at $2.50 each. That work is all done here by Chinamen. Ballard is three or four miles from Seattle. At Kellog's Mill I found conditions the same ; it is also at Ballard. The Seattle Cedar Lumber Company employ 125 men, 14 knot sawyers there, getting $2.50 a day. AH these mills make shingles except the first. I also visited Carey's Mill at Seattle, Stinson and Post's and Morran Bros, wages being the same, and not a Chinese or Japanese employed anywhere in connection with them. I asked one of the Morran Bros, .where the Japanese were, and he said if there .were any there he would throw them over the wall. As a proof that lumbering can be done here without 126 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Chinese or Japanese labour, I refer to the offer of Mr. Ludgate, to erect a mill and .employ no Japanese or Chinese. There was no bonus. He offered to put up $10,000 as forfeit if he employed Japanese or Chinese. I favour the exclusion of Chinese. I was deprived of my job by a Chinaman and left the business. The lumbermen took up great lumber limits, and this keeps them poor. The mill men are interested parties. For instance, one of the chief witnesses refused to state what the head men get. I believe if this had been given it would have shown they could employ whites. In Seattle the managers are there on the ground. The managers here don't do that way. The same cry was raised in the United States when they tried to shut them out. I believe in the exclusion of Chinese and Japanese alike. I think by treaty or by enactment they can greatly restrict or prohibit altogether both the Japanese and the Chinese. Do it by diplomatic action if possible, if not do it anyway. I'd bar them out anyway. I am not associated with any labour organization. I was representing Mr. Macdonnell, and he is acting for the Trades and Labour Council. I went over to ascertain the facts, as alderman, in regard to a certain by-law. I put myself forward as the champion of what I believe is in the interests of British Columbia and Canada. If you go into the bank after the canning seasons, you ' will see the number of Chinese and Japanese asking for drafts. I think it would be suicidal to give them the franchise. I suggest the most unobjectionable law would be the Natal Act. SUMMARY. The market in this line of business is largely local and eastern. Chinese are not employed in the interior of British Columbia, either in the mills or in the camps. Japanese have recently been introduced in one mill at Kamloops, but with that exception only white men are employed in the lumber industry in the interior. On the coast, Chinese are not employed to any large extent, but Japanese, constituting an equivalent, are largely employed. THE RELATIVE RATE OF WAGES. .The rate of wages in the Hastings Mill for unskilled labour is from $40 to $45 a month; in the Royal City Mills and Brunette Mills at New Westminster $35 a month, averaging about $1.50 for common labour and running up to $1.75 and $2 a day for semi? skilled labour, such as edgermen, gang saw and boom men. The Chinese and Japanese are paid for common labour 85, 90 cents and up to $1, and for semi-skilled labour as high as $1.25, and in one or two instances $1.50, the average being about $1 a day. The Japanese and Chinese pile the lumber, take care of the refuse, cut it up into wood, pile it, &c, and the more skilled generally run the cut-off saws, the lath and picket saw, and in many cases are engaged as assistants on planers. Very few white men are employed on this class of labour. On the American side the wage paid to unskilled labour is higher. At Whatcom the lowest wage paid to unskilled labour is $1.75 a day ; at Fairhaven from $1.50 to $2 a day. In Seattle the Stetson and Post Company pay from $1.75 to $2.50 for unskilled labour, the average being $2 a day. Morran Brothers pay a minimum wage of $2 a day. The lowest wage paid by Mr. Ludgate is $1.75 a day to 'roustabouts;' $1.75 is their cheapest labour. SKILLED LABOUR. Semi-skilled labour in the British Columbia mills ranges from $1.75 to $2 a day, and akuled labour from $2.25 to $3.50 a day. In the export mills higher wages are paid in a few instances—five sawyers in the Hastings Mill being paid from $4 to $5 a day, and filers as high as $7 a day. The average wage for white labour in this mill is from $2.25 to $2.50 a day. In the smaller mills, however, the earlier statement more nearly represents the average wage. Take the Royal City Planing Mills of New West- L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 127 ■ SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 minster, under the same control as the Hastings Mill, and engaged both in the export, local and eastern trade, their schedule of prices would approximately represent the average wage on the coast in British Columbia for semi-skilled and skilled labour. It is as follows : edger men $1.75, gang saw $1.75, boom men $1.75 to $2, sawyers $3, re- sawyers $3.50, filers $3.40. The average wage at Fairhaven, Washington, for white men was $3.33^ per day, wages running up to $5 and $6 a day; at Whatcom for skilled labour up to $4 a day, averaging from $2.50 to $3.75. At Seattle sawyers are paid from $3.50 to $4 a day. At another mill planers are paid from $2.25 to $2.50 and $2.75 a day, planer foremen •$3.50 and filers $5 a day. The rate of wages for trnskilled white labour in this industry is higher in Washington State than in British Columbia, and for skilled labour it is about the same, except possibly in one or two instances in the two larger export mills. Some mill owners claim that the American mills have the advantage in a larger local and practically unlimited home market, and in the fact that there is a duty on Canadian lumber entering the United States, while certain classes of American lumber enter Canada free of duty; and one witness stated that the cost of machinery, food supplies, tools and other lumbering supplies are from twenty to thirty per cent higher on the Canadian side than on the American side, and added that ' If we were allowed an open market to purchase our supplies it would be even more effective than a duty on lumber.' The evidence of a witness who has a mill at Seattle, and made inquiry with a view of ascertaining the cost of supplies in British Columbia did not sustain this view, but we think there is no doubt that certain lines of machinery and certain of the other supplies are higher on the Canadian side. Some of the employers took the view that there was no advantage or saving in wages by employing Chinese or Japanese instead of white men, having regard to the amount of labour done by each, but that white labour could not be obtained under present conditions. The majority of the employers who gave evidence were emphatic in their opinion, that no more Chinese or Japanese should be admitted; that the supply for the present an<£ for a long time to come was adequate, and that if no more Chinese or Japanese came in white labour would gradually take its place, without loss or inconvenience to the industry, and with great benefit to the country. All were agreed that this class of immigrants are undesirable as citizens, and all that were willing to express a,n opinion favoured higher restriction or exclusion. On the American side Chinese labour is not employed in this industry, and American employers are in favour of their present exclusion laws. It is quite clear that the Chinese are employed but to a limited extent in this branch of the trade and are not essential to its prosperity. (The regulation of Japanese labour to this industry will be dealt with under that heading.) CHAPTER XIV.—SHINGLE BUSINESS. The shingle business rests upon a somewhat different footing from the lumber business, and as it has become a very important industry, it deserves separate treatment. A few quotations from the evidence will indicate the scope and condition of the business. The following list shows a large proportion of the shingle mills of the Province : Mill, Whites. Chinese. Japanese. Pacific Coast Co., (nine mills).. 210 105 300 (in camp) Spicer 20 30 5 McNair 159 27 42 Heaps 56 21 27 445 183 364 128 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 James C. Scott, the mayor of New Westminster, and the manager of the Pacific Coast Lumber Company, and who handles the output of eight or nine other mills, namely, one at Port Moody, two at Hastings, one at Cloverdale, one at Ruskin, and the rest at Vancouver, says : The shingle business began when I came here. There are two shingle mills here, and one at Harrison, not included in the arrangement. There was a large over-production. There was considerably more than twi.ce the capacity that the market called for, and the consolidation of the several" mills was the way taken to control it. We organized in November last year. The heaviest consuming market is, first, Ontario; second, Manitoba; and third the Territories. We have no home market just now at all. We don't sell in the States, the duty keeps us out. The home market would not take more than 5,000,000, and one mill would produce that in a month. There is a certain small trade with the States of eighteen inch shingles, the usual size being sixteen inch. , The Chinese are used for pulling bolts from the water surface to the mill, cutting them up in sixteen inch lengths, and piling them on tables convenient to the sawyers. The sawyers are white men. The packers are usually Chinese. The packing is done by contract. When I came here first I had a prejudice against them, and I used white labour till July or August 1893. I felt that I had to employ Chinese. My cost was greater than others. I made it a hobby to try and get white boys to do the packing the same as we used to do in Ontario. I succeeded in getting two separate white contractors to undertake it, and they both confessed failure. The boys said they did not want that job, it was Chinaman's work. We had no trouble in Simcoe County, Ontario, in getting boys at 75 cents to $1 a day to do the work. We pay here more than we did there. We paid 5 cents a thousand there and 6 and 6^ cents per thousand here. It appeared they regarded it as degrading because it was Chinese work. It is true that boys and men and girls do not like work where Chinese are habitually employed. It is unfavourable to the community. Chinese have taken the place usually given to boys and they have got into indolent habits No Japanese are employed in the shingle factories. If no more Chinese came in it might bother us for a time. It would regulate itself in time. If they were not here at all we could get some labour to take their place. If they were cut off at once we could get boys or others in their places. I cannot answer the question in any other way than that it is unfortunate for the country that they are here at all. They are not assimilative. 1 do not think it would be desirable if they did assimilate. It is apparent to me it would be difficult to clear land, but if they were not here other labour would come. I certainly think their presence has a tendency to keep that labour out. It is not desirable that labour should be kept out. It is a difficult problem to think out. The difficulty will increase with the numbers. They build a few houses near the mill and herd together. There is no home life. Very few have wives here. Although this might be a temporary inconvenience—this is too nice a country to live in to have Chinese as the labourers of this country. I say this against my own interest. I do not think the $100 will have any material effect whatever on the numbers coming in. If as much as $500 were put on it might have some effect. It might cripple us for a time. I would be willing to take my chance with the rest of us rather than have this thing go on. It is quite possible that we over-estimate the trouble, and that it might not be as bad as we fear. I have engaged a few Japanese. The Japanese are more ready to pick up work and adapt themselves quicker to work. I regard the Japanese less undesirable. I do not think I class them in the same category. They are decidedly more desirable than the Chinese. The business is fairly profitable for the last two years. The cost of production would not vary to the extent of five cents (i.e. if oriental labour not employed). There is no duty On shingles coining in. We experience competition at Sarnia, Goderich, Windsor, Chatham, etc., also from Washington State. I consider there is material right here in the boys in this town to do all the work. If we got men instead of boys we would have to pay one-third more, or a difference of $3 a day with that crew. They produce 100,000 in ten hours, that is $3 on 100,000, or three cents per thousand. The Chinese or Japanese are employed in making bolts. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 129 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 They get $1 a cord. They work most of the year except in the canning season. We produce from 150,000,000 to 200,000,000 per year. It is a Canadian industry depending on the Canadian market. I think it desirable to run the industries employing oriental labour rather than to stop them. In the interests of the country a $300 tax is more desirable. I have never experienced a scarcity of Chinese or Japanese. The city employs exclusively whites. The general sentiment is against Chinese and against the immigration of orientals. A white man cannot live on what a Chinese or Japanese lives on. The Japanese, from the standpoint of the labourer is as dangerous as. the Chinamen. A man looks to see what labour is available, and he finds a mixture of Chinese and white labour employed, and an unsettled condition of affairs indicated by the present Commission, and that unsettled state of affairs leads him to wait to see the result. I would agree with Mr. Palmer, of Chemainus, that while we could not get on now without Oriental labour, yet if no more came in it would not seriously affect my interests, and I would take the chances. H. H. Spicer, manager of the Spicer Shingle Mill Company, of Vancouver, says ! All shingle mills employ Chinese labour more or less. We pay in wages about $2,000 a month—65 per cent to white, 35 per cent to Chinese. We used to get $2.00, $2.25 and $2.50 per thousand; now there is no fixed price. They sell to local trade at $1.40. There is competition. The tendency would be to get a better price if American shingles did not interfere. The market is ridiculously small for the number of mills here. We make the price and . we don't cut till we have to. The total market in Canada is 225,000,000; 165,000 is a car load. We ship considerable to the United States; no success in shipping to Australia or Africa. It would be bad for the shingle business if we could not get Chinese. I do not know, but I am inclined to think that an exclusion law, if it resulted in no more Chinese coming in, would act very strongly in shutting our mill down in the future. They seem better adapted than Japanese. We ship into the United States as a dumping ground for the surplus. The duty is 30 cents per thousand. Mongolians work the same number of hours as other men. American shingle mills are chiefly run by white labour. We could not pay as much to white men unless we had that cheap labour. If Canada had a population of 30,000,000 we might not have to employ Chinese at all, but our market is limited. James A. McNair said : I am engaged in the shingle and lumber trade. We employ a total of 228 men about the mills and logging camps—159 whites, 42 Japanese and 27 Chinese. The average pay of whites per day is $410, Japanese $46, and Chinese $45. We tried white labour instead of Chinese three years ago. We gave instructions to the contractor to use white men and to test the matter we gave him the contract, and in three months' time he had Chinamen. It was the same price to white men and Chinamen. He could not get sufficient white labour at the price. I have three shingle mills on the other side. I employ 138 men there; all are white men. We pay there for packing eight cents per thousand for five butts to two inches, and 7 cents per thousand for six butts to two inches. White labour is generally employed over there. Some of the shingle mills there have Japanese, one at Sumas, one at Lake Whatcom, and one at Carroll Siding. Our market there is the middle and eastern states. Our market here is British Columbia, North-west Territories, Manitoba and Ontario. We have no difficulty in getting men, except in the fishing season. We would have to have cheap labour or shut down. The Chinaman never changes. I should prefer to employ whites, and we do as much as we can. The only way we can ship into the United States is by shipping in larger shingles. We got part of our machinery from the United States, and paid duty,—on boiler and engine 25 per cent. We did a little better than their price plus the duty—just a trifle. We produce shingles a little cheaper on the other side—just a shade. We have not built extra mills here, and we have built two over there. The total capacity of the shingle mills in British Columbia is something like 650,000,000 to 700,000,000 per annum. We can go there and ship into the United States or Canada as we choose. There are 360 shingle mills in Washington and Oregon. They ship some thousands of cars a day. 54—9 Some mills have a capacity of half a million a day. Of the 31,132,000 130 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 sold in Canada from the United States, British Columbia took 11,360,000; Manitoba, 12,721,000; New Brunswick, 860,000; Quebec, 141,000, and Ontario, 5,846,000, the North-west Territories, 135,000; Yukon, 69,000. Business won't stand higher wages all round. Take the extra cost of machinery and everything, you would have to reduce the higher wages if you had all white. We get a little better prices in the United States than here for our product. The bolts cost 50 cents more a cord here, a difference of 8 or 10 cents a thousand between price of shingles here and there. We have got to pay more for material and for all provisions, horse feed and all that sort of things. The duty is a much larger consideration with us than the exclusion of Asiatics would be. If we had the market here covered by a duty it would help us a great deal in doing without Japanese. If we had our own market then we are not more crowded than they. It is partially true that in our business what we save from the cheap labour we give to the white labour. It is a toss up as to who can save more—our men or the white men on the other side. If orientals were taken out we would have to scale down the white labour. E. H. Heaps, manager of the Heaps Company, Vancouver, says : We paid wages for March, 1900—to whites, $1,681.30, Japanese $711.70, Chinese $540. We run night and day, two shifts of three men each. An ordinary sawyer earns $2.75 a day. He can earn $3.50 if exceptionally good. We have three machines idle for want of a sawyer. There is a scarcity of skilled labour. We employ in the camps on contract about eighty men in getting out bolts. We let the contracts to Japanese, Chinese and whites. The Japanese contractors employ Japanese; the Chinese contractors employ Chinese; the white contractors employ Japanese and Chinese. Ninety per cent of the bolts are got out by Japanese and Chinese. You can depend on them for this work. We pay $5,000 a month for say eight months, $40,000, besides the factory wages. The division of wages would be the following :— Japanese and Chinese for bolts $ 36,000 I I in the mill 8,000 Total $ 44,000 Whites in the mill $ 10,000 I for bolts 4,000 Total to whites $ 14,000 It is not cheaper to employ Japanese and Chinese for bolts. I think if we have protection all through, the men ought to be protected, too. I think the restriction on Chinese is quite sufficient. At present we have enough Chinese. The work they are engaged in seems to suit them. It is under cover; it requires quickness of hand and eye, and it is not hard work, and they earn high wages. As a rule they are steady and reliable, and you can depend upon their being there. The oriental labour is a necessity for our business. In the shingle mill we have more whites than when we first started. Boys can learn to run the saws. We make a special point to try and get white sawyers and boys to learn the trade, and when*they learn they go to the Sound. Cedar is getting scarcer ; it has to be hauled longer distances to the water. Horses are dearer, wages are higher, and machinery is higher now. C. Uchida, Japanese contractor, says : I contract to get out shingle bolts. I get $2.05 per cord delivered on the scow. I pay $2 per cord and get 5 cents and what I make on supplies. I take out about 3,000 cords. We employ all Japanese. We send in rice, flour, salt meat, .vegetables, sugar, and fresh meat once a month. It costs them $10 or $11 a month for board. They hire a cook—two cooks for 36 men. I have wife and children at home. There is only one family out there. I buy groceries at the wholesale stores. I keep a store, and buy $2,000 a month; $360 a month goes into camp. I supply them with overalls and working clothes. I buy some from white men ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 131 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 and some from Chinese. The white men do not get out shingle bolts. The 36 men in the camp are not naturalized. I am not a British subject. Arthur C. Gordon, contractor for cutting shingles, says : The work is done for me by Chinese. ^The Chinese do the packing, jointing and cut-off. They make about $1.25 a day. I have known white men do it. They do it faster. A good white packer would pack 40,000, while a Chinese packs only 20,000 or 25,000. I pay seven cents a 1,000. This work has always been done by Chinese for twelve years. There are more mills now. In Washington a white man averages 40,000 a day. I never had a white man, a packer or jointer, apply for work. A white man could make $2.80 a day. I let all the work to one Chinaman, and he hires his own men. I employ eleven Chinese and two whites—no Japanese. I don't know one white packer here. I favour restriction. I think we have enough Chinese now. I favour exclusion. I think as whites increase they should decrease. We have four Chinese packers. Two white men could do the work of the four Chinese packers. There are no white packers offering. I would like to see white men in the country. I am just making wages. I might as well work by the day. I took two white sawyers this spring and broke them in myself. The Chinese have always been working around getting skilled. Stephen Ramage, says: I am a saw-filer in Heaps' Shingle Mill, Vancouver. Have resided here since the fire. There are many more Chinese in the mills than formerly. They are increasing steadily. That applies to all the mills. The Japanese are •on a greater increase than Chinamen. I think it would be a benefit if more restrictions were put on. It would tend to stop the immigration. There are sufficient here now to supply the demand for some years to come. The Japanese are a greater menace to whites than Chinese. They are abler-bodied men. They adopt our mode of living more readily. The Japanese and Chinese deter men from coining here. Very few of the Japanese and Chinese have a family. My principal reason would be to save the country for my own race. I would- not object to Europeans. I object to Asiatics. I hope they will not assimilate with our people. I think not. The shingle mills are working on shifts—double time just now, since the spring trade has opened up. To jump from one to the other, it might be difficult to carry on the business with white labour. There is white labour that don't get employed on account of the Japanese being employed. I think white people are kept out of employment. I was foreman of a saw-mill for local trade. The price of lumber has gone up. In the depression lumber was lower two or three years ago. There was keener competition four years ago than now. There is a better agreement now as to price—not so much cutting. Wages are no better. The price of logs is a little higher now. I would rather keep out the Japanese and let the Chinese come in with a head tax as at the present time. The Japanese are more of a menace. They are more capable men and do their work as cheap as Chinese. They dress like a white man, but don't eat like a white man. They live in aggregations as much as Chinese. Their diet is principally rice. Chey would not be as great a menace as the Chinamen if they lived up to our standard, their class of labour. The Heaps mill started with three shingle machines. There is now a factory a sawmill and a machine shop all attached to it. McNair Brothers went into business ten years ago. They started cutting shingle bolts. Kirkpatrick started by renting power. He now owns two plants. The mills here have not as modern machinery as the Americans. The tariff might benefit some people. They would not dismiss the Mongolians on that account. I think the present time is as good as any for change. The Japanese can learn to run the saws, and they will be employed at this higher work. No European nation is as objectionable as the Japanese and Chinese. Some of the plants are as modern as the Americans, and some are not. The large export mills average well with the American mills. We can manufacture shingles as cheaply as the Americans can. Eighty per cent of the machinery is Canadian. I think we could do without more at all. They do without Japanese and Chinese on the other side. If a change was made at once it would take some few days to get white men. The mills on the other side run without Asiatic labour. I don't think it is true that when labourers come in they go off to something better, not more so in this country 54—9i that is the average Canadian "doing 132 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 than in any other. The general wage is about $1.50 a day. I was in the Royal City mill for five years. I daresay Cook could get enough white men to run the Hastings mill in two days. The average Japanese gets $1 a day. Wages are worse to-day than they were some years ago. There is just as much trouble with the Chinese and Japanese going fishing as the whites. I would tell unskilled labour not to come here. We have Chinese packing and Japanese cutting bolts. There is no way of getting in white labour to learn the saw—it is the Japanese and Chinese. The Japanese are apt to learn. [ a day; band saw filers get $6 to $7 a day. Wherever the Japanese enters Filers get he cuts wages in two. SUMMARY. n This important industry employs over one thousand men, of whom less than half are white workmen. The following probably does not include all, but fairly gives the proportion :— Whites 445 Chinese 183 Japanese " 364 The Chinese are employed principally in bringing the bolts from the water surface to the mill, cutting them up into sixteen inch lengths ready for sawyers (and recently as sawyers themselves in some mills) and in packing, for which they are exclusively employed by Chinese contractors. They have become expert packers, and are deemed specially suited for that work. Although white packers in Washington and Oregon, where no Chinese are employed, are found to do the work much more rapidly and on the whole as cheaply. The white men and boys have not been trained to the business and cannot now compete at the same price, and refuse to work at it because \ it is "Chinese work.' No Japanese are employed in the factories. The output of nine mills are now controlled through one company. Large quantities are sent east. The manager of this large concern says that ' if no more Chinese came in it might bother for a little while ; it would regulate itself in time. If they were not here at all we could get some labour to take their place. If they were cut off at once we could get boys or others in their places. I cannot answer the question in any other way than that it is unfortunate for the country that they are here at all. The business is fairly profitable for the last two years.' This witness makes a further most important statement: ' I consider there is material right here in the boys in this town to do all the work.' He then shows that if white men were employed it might increase the cost of production by three cents per thousand. \ I agree with Mr. Palmer, of Chemainus, that while we could not get on now without oriental labour, yet if no more came in it would not seriously affect my interests. I would take the chances. The general sentiment is against Chinese and against emigration of orientals.' The representative of another company that employs 228 men in their lumber and shingle business, of whom 159 are whites, 42 Japanese and 27 Chinese, stated that their average wage per day to whites was $410 ; to Japanese, $46 ; to Chinese, $45. This included the lumber business as well as the shingle business. This company tried white labour instead of Chinese, but in three months' time found that they could not get white labour at the same price paid to Chinese. The company have three shingle mills in Washington State, where they employ 138 men in the shingle business alone, all whites. White labour is generally employed there. There are 360 shingle mills in Washington and Oregon that ship thousands of cars a day, some of the mills having a capacity of half a million a day. Of the thirty-one . millions sold in Canada from the United States last year British Columbia took over eleven millions, Manitoba nearly thirteen millions and Ontario nearly six millions. They get a little better price in the United States than here for the product. He stated further : ' If we had our own markets then we are not more crowded than they.' L ———■— ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 133 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 It is partially true, he states, that what they save from cheap labour they give to white labour.- ' If orientals were taken out we would have to scale down the white labour.' Another employer stated that he paid out to whites for March, 1900, $1,681; to Japanese $711, and to Chinese $540; that he employs about 80 men in getting out bolts, and lets contracts to Japanese, Chinese and whites. Japanese contractors employ Japanese ; Chinese employ Chinese, and white contractors employ Japanese and Chinese. Ninety per cent would be Japanese and Chinese. In eight months they paid out for bolts $40,000 besides the factory wages, as follows :— Japanese and Chinese for bolts $ 36,000 To whites for bolts 4,000 Japanese and Chinese in the mill 8,000 ' To whites in the mill 14,000 This witness thought restriction quite sufficient and stated that at present they have enough Chinese. He found them steady and reliable. He declared oriental labour a necessity for their business. A white contractor who employs Chinese for packing, jointing and cutting off, stated that a good white packer would pack forty thousand, while a Chinaman packs only from twenty to twenty-five thousand. He pays seven cents a thousand. He states that in Washington white men average forty thousand a day, and this was confirmed by evidence on the American side. Chinese have always been employed in packing. He had never had a white man apply for work. A white man could make $2.80 a day. This contractor lets all the work to one Chinamen and he hires his own men. He employs eleven Chinamen and two whites. He did not know of a single white packer. This witness favours exclusion. He thinks as whites increase Chinese should decrease. He declared that two white men could do the work of four Chinese packers. He took two white sawyers on this spring and taught them himself. Why is it, then, if white men can do so much more than Chinese, and therefore working by contract can earn $2.80 a day, they do not eagerly seek employment ? The answer, we think, is simple. Chinese have always been employed in this business. They have become expert. The white man at first is unskilled. He would earn very low wages at first. The work is done by contract. The skilled Chinese are there ready to do the work. It is more convenient to sub-let the contract to a boss Chinese contractor who will employ Chinese on his own terms, than for the white contractor or the owner of the mill to train a staff competent to do the work, even although when trained, the work could be done as cheaply and the white man earn good wages. In the east this work is largely done by boys who are trained to the business from an early age. There is no reason in the nature of things why this might not and ought not to be the case in British Columbia, except the presence of the Chinese and Japanese. While they are there in such numbers they will be employed to the exclusion of white labour, because if not cheaper, it is more convenient. In the mills in Washington and Oregon no Chinese are employed and yet the work is done very nearly, if not quite, as cheaply. There is only a shade of difference, according to the witness, who thought he could not get on without this cheap labour. \ According to one calculation, even if men were employed instead of boys, it would only make a difference of three cents a thousand. If it is further taken into account that neither white men nor boys will work if they can avoid it at what is called a Chinaman's job, a satisfactory explanation is given as to why it is. The Chinese practically control this branch of the industry. The conclusion reached is that neither Chinese nor Japanese are essential to the success of this business, but being available and conveniently employed by contract, they have become a part of the machinery of production which would for a time be thrown out of gear if they were discharged. They are at present more convenient, but not essential. There is a supply for many years to come, and if no more came in no permanent injury would result. The stability of the business does not depend upon them: 134 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VI!., A. 1902 CHAPTER XV.—THE CANNING INDUSTRY. The salmon canning industry of the world is practically confined to the North Pacific Coast of America. The number of Japanese and Chinese engaged in it greatly exceeds the number of them employed in any other industry. For some years past the total pack of the Pacific Coast has been in the neighbourhood of three million cases, but for the season of 1901 the enormous pack of over five million cases of 48 one-pound tins is reported. Of this number over 1,200,000 were produced in British Columbia; 950,000 of which were packed on the Fraser River, and 1,400,000 cases or over, were packed on Puget Sound, chiefly of Eraser River salmon. This industry in British Columbia ranks in importance with that of the mines and lumbering industry. The following tables will indicate its growth. Total number of licenses in British Columbia :— Year. Total. To Japanese. Canners. Others. 1896 1897 3,533 4,500 4,435 4,197 4.892 4,722 452 787 768 930 1,892 1,958 1,063 1,203 1,204 175 542 548 2,018 2,510 1898 1899 1900 1901 2,463 3,092 2,458 2,216 Year. No. of Employees. Value of Plant. 1896 14,227 19,850 20,695 20,037 20,262 $ 2,197,248 2,350,260 2,480,245 2,145,173 2,839,904 1897 1898.. 1899 1900 Value of Salmon Pack by District. District. 1896. 1897. 1898. 1899. 1900. Fraser River $ 1,801,654 529,588 559,631 70,315 24,216 $ 4,219,751 211,644 330,747 96,000 66,276 8 1,268,278 434,042 505,737 96,000 60,187 8 2,531,500 401,414 589,934 93,321 58,320 $ 1,590,532 439,617 702,144 96,960 82,089 Skeena River. Vancouver Island 2,985,305 4,927,418 2,364,245 3,674,491 2,911,344 This is based upon a uniform price of 10 cents per pound. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 135 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The exports of dry salted dog salmon to Japan are:— 1898. $ 160,000 1899 120,000 1900 ! 228,000 These were valued at three and four cents per pound. The total output for British Columbia :— 1894 494,371 cases 1895 566,395 I 1896 .' 601,570 " 1897 , 1,015,477 " 1898 484,161 | 1899 732,437 | 1900 585,413 " 1901 1,205,037 I Of the twenty thousand employes engaged in the Fisheries it is estimated that ten thousand are employed in and about the canneries, and of these about six thousand are Chinese. Of the 74 canneries in British Columbia, 49 are on the Fraser. The process of canning (making cans, filling, cooking, soldering, and boxing) is almost exclusively done by contract. The contracts are made with boss Chinamen who hire their own help in their own way. This method of doing business adopted by the canners. has its special advantages and probably accounts for the fact that Chinese are preferred for this department of the business. Certain Chinamen have become experts and are sought after, both by the employer and the Chinese contractor. They command from $35 to $45 per month. The contractor makes an advance of from $30 to $40 to each Chinaman at the opening of the season to induce him to come. The contractor furnishes the provisions, where chiefly his profits are made. At the end of each month what he has supplied is made up and charged pro rata to the men in his employ. At the end of the season, if the run is short, the contractor may lose money on his contract which, however, is partly covered by his profits on the provisions. If the provisions furnished to the Chinamen and the advances made to them exceed the amount of their wages at the end of the season the loss falls on the contractor and not on his employer. The advantages to the canners are : First, the contractor takes the responsibility of employing sufficient hands to do the work, thereby saving all the inconvenience and trouble which would otherwise fall upon the employer; second, the work is done by experts who have been trained to the business ; third," the canner knows exactly what \ the processin ' will cost per case ; fourth, any loss falls upon the: contractor ; fifth, he avoids the trouble of furnishing supplies, and the expenses of providing accommodation suitable for white men ; sixth, the Chinese boss is able to get more work out of the men and to have it done more satisfactorily than when they work by the day for the cannery employer. It is manifest that this method of conducting the business, places it practically in the hands of the Chinese, prevents white workmen from being trained to this part of the business, and partly accounts for the fact why cannerymen agree that Chinese are required for this industry. Alexander Ewen, of New Westminster, said : I have resided in British Columbia thirty-six or thirty-seven years. There were a good many Chinese here then. There were not many people in the country at that time. The canning industry started about 1870. I did not employ them the first two or three years. I was among the first to develop this business. I employ from 150 to 200 men now in the canneries. Of these the average would be about twenty whites. I employ Chinese and Japanese, but pay wages individually and not by contract. The Chinese come from all over the Province. There has been difficulty in getting Chinese for the last four years at leaot. 136 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Last year it was difficult to-get them, and after we got them it was unfortunate that we had little or nothing for them to do. Latterly I have had to employ Chinese through a boss, because labour is getting so scarce that skilled Chinese are hard to get. The Chinese we get do various kinds of work, such as farming and clearing of land. I make the cans at my own cannery. I have a certain amount of machinery to lessen the cost. I do not get them at the Automatic Cannery. When I started in business the tins were boiled in kettles over a large fire ; afterwards we used steam to Retorts were introduced in 1881, also soldering machines which save The soldering machine did not work well for four or five years heat the water, considerable labour. after it was introduced. Soldering machines and retorts were first developed in this country. The cans are wiped and capped by machinery. One washing or wiping machine, with three people at the outside, will do up to two thousand cases every day. Before that we had to have twenty or thirty hand washers. Two hands with a capping machine will do 1,500 to 2,000 cases a day. By hand there would be twenty putting covers on. The fish cutting, machine saves the labour of five men on 1,500 cases a day. We have an automatic cooking process and tester as well, and an automatic washing machine, which saves the labour of from fifteen to twenty men, or more. There has not been much improvement in washing and cleaning fish. Canneries make cans as cheap as they can buy them, probably cheaper. Most of the machinery has been invented and manufactured in British Columbia. I do not know of any improvements in the process for catching the fish. The nets are, of course, heavier and better, and the boats are larger and more sea-worthy. These are more expensive now. It costs more now to catch fish than it did ten or twelve years ago. We are fishing with drift nets, as we have always done. The improvement has been in taking care of the fish after they are caught. I can make as cheap cans as the Automatic Cannery. Machinery has reduced labour in the cannery one half or a little more, exclusive of the question as to whether or not the factory can produce cans any cheaper than I can. Where I used to have to employ three or four hundred men nine years ago, now I can do the same work with the same class of labour with a hundred and twenty men. The fishing is overdone. The river in my opinion is over-crowded. There is just a certain amount of work to do, and they cannot get the same quantity. It is dividing up the catch on the river among too many. If there were a fewer number of fishermen they would get more fish no doubt, but that is like everything else. The business will level itself; I do not see how that can be legislated down. The business is overdone. The canneries were built on a large scale when there were fewer of them; now there are a great many of them, and it is almost impossible to get a full day's work. Three or four days in the season you will have all you can do, get more than you can handle, but immediately after it drops down to only half a day's work. The canneries are not all alike. The plant alone will run ten to fifteen thousand dollars, for from 1,500 to 2,000 cases a day, and some will be a good deal higher. The trouble is to get the fish, and the people to do the work ; that is the great difficulty. It is only work for a short season. You have to invest that large amount, and make all preparations for a large run, for you can never tell what is before you. The bulk of the work has to be done in eight or nine days; the principal portion of your catch has to be taken care of in that time. If we had as many fish as in 1897, or we had any guarantee of what it would be, it would be easier to do the fishing with a thousand boats or less, than with 3,000 boats. If the Japanese had not come in the industry would have been out of existence. With the number of canneries in existence now you could not get along unless there were more boats. The number of canneries has doubled within twelve years. A great many white men within the last three years have become not so anxious to fish as they "v^ere. They will not leave work at which they are earning $5 a day to go fishing, and a great many of them have dropped out. It was not from the number of boats but from the number of fish in the river. I say judging from the capital invested and the preparations made to take care of the fish, there are not enough boats to keep the canneries going. They have got to go away into the ocean to get the quantity ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 137 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 required by the canneries. If you double the number of boats they would have to cover more ground. As far as the industry is concerned to-day, if you follow the facts all the way through, the number of fish caught and put on the market is not decreasing much, but the cost of getting them is increasing, and the number caught by each fisherman has decreased. The fishermen have now to go out as far as Point Roberts, Point Grey and Howe Sound and bring their fish to the Fraser, whereas before fish were only caught in the river. The number put up has not increased, the number has decreased individually to the fishermen. The fisherman is likely to catch more in the Fraser if there are fewer nets. The close season was for the purpose of preserving the fish. The nets have to be placed 250 yards apart, and you must not obstruct two-thirds of the river. They have tried to enforce the law. It seems to me it is impossible to carry it out. I cannot say that there is one too many canneries. I said it was overdone. Any person who goes into the business will find it is not profitable. It will soon find its own level. As to restriction on Chinese immigration, I do not interfere with matters of that kind at all. Politics is not my business. The Chinese do not hurt me. I have no view to express on further restriction, because I cannot tell whether it would be good or bad. I fully believe that i£ we had exclusion here that in five or seven years there would be very few Chinese in British Columbia. They would all be in the United States. They are going there in great numbers, this year especially. The opportunities for them are better there. If the number of Chinese were limited to any extent the canning industry would suffer I think. It is suffering now. It was impossible to get the number of men we thought we wanted last year. You can compare the largest number that was working in July and August with any of the years previous, and I tried to get all the men I could, 85 in August and 63 in July of last year; the year before 146 in August and 122 in July ; the year before that 116 in August and 116 in July, and the year before that 159 in August and 155 in July. The capacity of the cannery did not vary those years, but the fish varied, and the reason for the large num.- ber of men in 1897 was, that was the largest run of fish that has been on the Fraser River, and the run continued so long. The 250 yard regulation was to prevent fishermen interfering, one with the other. In some of the provinces they use fixed nets. Trouble has been caused by one man crowding another. If you put two nets in the river 250 yards apart before they drift half-a-mile they will be both together. The water does not run the same. It is im- possible to carry out the regulation. The United States is our only competitor in the markets for canned salmon. It is supposed that the fish that .are caught on Puget Sound are all heading for the Fraser River because that is their spawning ground. That is the sock-eyes. They catch them at a much less price over there when there is an average run of fish, but last year I believe their fish cost, them as much as they cost us here. They have an advantage in canning fish when they are caught in traps over they Fraser River canners with gill- net fishing. If they get too many fish they can keep them in the traps three or four days without any expense. The heavy run will last only three or four days, and when the run slows down they can work along with the fish that are in the traps. If they, get more than they can use they can open the traps and let the fish go. It is better in that way; they can get fish fresh all the time. I know of my knowledge that they are increasing their capacity to a great extent over there, more than doubling it. They use filling machines that we do not use at all, but the fish are cheaper, and their output is sold cheaper than ours in the market. Machine filled fish have to be sold cheaper; they do not turn out so well as the fish that are filled into cans by hand. There was a limit to the number of licenses on the Fraser River at one time ; I think it was five hundred boats. Then there were ten or twelve canneries. The license was $20 then. I think it went as high as $50 one year. They were allowed forty licenses to a cannery at one time, and five hundred to the river, so that the canneries did not have a monopoly of it. They could limit the number of licenses, but they could not limit the number of canneries. Licenses could only be granted to a British subject. Something has been done by the canning industry here to prevent the depletion of the salmon. Something r 138 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 has been proposed about limiting the number of traps on the other side. If something is not done soon they will catch at least three-fourths of the salmon that ought to come to the Fraser River; that is my opinion upon it, unless there is some restriction put upon thj number of traps there will be depletion of the salmon. I do not think there are so many here just now trying to build new canneries, although there are some of them at it yet. Machinery for canning purposes is in use for an average of two months I expect. The earning power of the machinery in any branch of the business must be taken out of it in two months. Japanese are about the same as whites in the way of catching fish. I expect the cost of production now compared with ten years ago is about double what it was then. The cost of catching fish is more expensive, because the fishermen have to have more expensive boats to go to sea after the fish. In the river they use cheaper nets. I do not say there are not enough Chinese here, but I do not say there are enough. There was a time a few years ago when I was not able to take care of the fish for five or six days, when I expected to put up nearly one-half of the pack.. Four years ago salmon fishing on the Sound was only new. The Americans have more effective appliances and fish all the time. The fish are afforded some protection here. We can only touch the fish in the river within the tidal waters. The demand for fishermen has been unlimited for the last four years, but the question is the putting up of the price of fish. This last fall, the market in Great Britain came down, showing that the fish are not going so rapidly into consumption. The price went up in a panic and then it came down all at once. It is impossible for me to say whether there are too many fishermen on the river or not. I do not know whether there should be any restriction on Chinese and Japanese coming here. I do not think they are pouring in in increased numbers. Last year a great many came in, but that stopped. They found that it was not so pleasant as they thought. Over-crowding will cure itself. It is a case of the survival of the fittest. It is so in all other industries. But for cheap labour I do not think there would be so many canneries in existence. Unless you had a population of five or six millions in British Columbia it would be impossible at that particular season of the year to draw the men from the ordinary labour of the country to supply the canneries. You cannot get white men to come here and run chances of getting work after the fishing season is over, when there are abundant opportunities for them getting steady work elsewhere all the year round. Take the 150 men in the cannery and increase their wages by one-half, and you would stop the industry altogether. More than three-quarters of the inside work is done by Chinese.* The cost of their labour is less than the other quarter of whites. If canneries cease operations the country will feel it. Japanese take the place of Norwegians and Swedes, who now fish on the Sound. Canneries have made no money since 1897. The cost of production increases every year. The Sound fishing increases all the time. The canneries here made more money before the Japanese came than they have done since. In a big run there is a limit put to each boat. When a thing is looked upon as prosperous, people rush into it, and it is overdone ; then with cheap labour it is overdone. The continuance of cheap labour cannot make it worse. They have stopped coming now, and they are getting out of here as fast as they can, a great many of them going where they can do better. If the cost of production becomes greater, then a great many cannaries must go out of existence. It does not matter whether it is from the scarcity, or the cost of labour, or anything else. Hand filled cans sell higher than those filled by machinery. I think there are two many canneries, and I consider there are too many fishermen. The number of canneries necessitates a large number of fishermen, and if there were any serious reduction of fishermen, those canneries would have a greater shortage of fish than they have now. The question really is one of competition. The price of fish has steadily increased each year. You require to have enough salmon go to the spawning grounds in order to keep up your supply of fish. The fish that have their home on the Fraser river are just as . ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 139 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 plentiful as heretofore, and the fish caught on the Puget Sound are undoubtedly salmon making for the Fraser River. Fishing is more or less of a gambling transaction. Q. Do you think there is any method to be secured by legislation limiting the number of fishermen on one side and of canners on the other ?—A. It would be very unsatisfactory. It is business and business should not be controlled by legislation, but by the profit that may be in it. I do not agree with limitation of the number of fishermen or the limitation of the number of canneries. A great many of the fishermen are dead broke all the time. Some of them have saved a good deal of money on the Fraser river. There was never a time in this Province when white people were available for doing the labour inside the canneries. By the introduction of machinery we have had to employ more high class labour. It turns out the low class of oriental labour and brings in a high class of white labour to look after the machines. Supposing the canneries went out of existence for some reason or other, the country in general would suffer, and the canneries would have a lot of plant and machinery that would be useless, but the whole country would suffer in consequence of arresting the flow of money. Under existing circumstances the canneries could not be carried on without oriental labour. Within the last three or four years they could not exist without Japanese fishermen. Most of the Norwegian and Swede fishermen on the other side have their homes there. Every one does not get the same price. The run was so short last year that the price of fish rose in the English market about $2 a case. Last year was not a remunerative one. The year before in a majority of cases it simply held its own. For some years past some have held their own, others have gone behind, very few have made one per cent. Even 1897 was not a profitable year. The price fell considerably. There was an immense catch in 1897. There was a large waste of fish then. The ultimate result in my private opinion will be to deplete the fish coming to the river if the fishing continues the same way on the Sound. Four years ago the fishing there was very limited, but now with increased facilities there, the tendency is towards depleting the river of fish. Before the Japanese came here we had a great number of fishermen from the State of Washington. I said the industry was overdone. I cannot have said there were too many fishermen. While there are so many canneries they want more fishermen. The fishermen do not come from the Sound now as they did before, but they would come I have no doubt if they could get work. If the number of canneries were reduced there would not be so many fishermen wanted unless the canneries were to double their capacity. If the number of fishermen were reduced by one half, leaving the canneries as they are, the effect would be that the canneries to run properly and get a reasonable interest on the money invested would have to reduce the price of fish. The canneries would pay as much for fish if the markets would allow them. I was pretty successful for many years. We had no Japanese then. I would like to see that return. I was then putting up fish that cost me $12 a case to put them upy and I was perfectly satisfied if I got $16 or $20 for them. The price of fish then was about one- half a cent a fish. The market price for our product was much higher then. If restriction were enforced I would have to stand it. I would submit to. it gracefully- 140 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 Exhibit 52. Memorandum re Wages paid by Ewen & Co., New .Westminster, to Employees, 1897 to 1900, inclusive :— CHINESE. i Month. 1897. April May June July August September... 1898. April May June July..... ... August 1899. May June July August September... 1900. April... May June July August.. No. of men. 45 45 45 155 159 53 38 116 116 4 35 122 146 44 12 30 30 63 85 Average time per man per month. Average monthly earnings per man. 16 days 13 | *2i2ro it 16 „ 2oj it 20 I 1* «• 24 I 24 ., 6 13 „ 6 6 7 144 •• 16 .. 2 214 » 94 .. 6 16 „ cts. 23 38 18 93 31 71 24 27 35 77 30 12 2 75 33 06 34 12 8 67 19 70 7 14 9 50 10 96 22 00 25 40 3 33 33 09 .16 26 9 56 22 69 Total wages paid for month, \ cts. 1,052 10 851 85 1,426 75 3,761 85 5,687 43 1,596 36 14,376 54 24 75 1,256 28 1,296 56 1,005 72 2,285 20 5,868 51 28 56 332 50 1,337 12 3,212 00 1,117 60 6,027 78 39 96 992 70 487 80 602 28 .1,928 65 4,051 39 Average for Season. Per day of 10 hours, $1.48. "Per month of 26 days, $38.54. Per day of 10 hours, $1.44. " Per month of 26 days, $37.58. Per day of 10 hours, $1.51. Per month of 26 days, $39.39. Per day of 10 hours, $1 54. ' Per month of 26 days, $40.15. WHITE MEN. Year. No. of men. Average time per man for season. Total wages paid for season. Average per man for month of 26 days. 1897 1898 : 1899 1900 19 21 20 20 5£ months 5 I ....... 5 ., 5 $ cts. 8,316 23 7,950 51 7,720 95 8,091 71 $ cts. 79 58 75 71 77 21 80 91 Note.—White men are paid from $40 to $100 per month and board—above figures include board at $12 per month. Chinese are paid for actual time worked only, and in all cases board themselves. Their wages vary from $35 to $75 per month. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 MEMO. RE COST OP PACKING. 141 Pack. Chinese labour per case. White labour per case. Steamers cost per case. Total. 1897 1898 Cases. 39,131 10,005 18,789 6,105 36 cents... 32 „ .. 66 „ .. 21J cents.. 79 .... 41 „ .. $1 o2r% II . . 64 cents.. 25 „ .. 13 „ .. 41 .... $ cts. 63i 1 62J 1899 1900 86 2 394 Note.—Salmon packs for 1897, 1898 and 1899 were all cases of 48 one-pound cans. Pack for 1900 consisted of 3,210 cases, containing 48 one-pound cans and 2,895 cases containing 96 one- half pound cans, the latter of which entail nearly double the amount of labour necessary to pack one- pound cans. Expenditure for boxes, lumber and Machinery from 1897 to 1900 bv Ewen & Co., New Westminster, B.C.:— 1897—Sawmills $6,295 53 Machine shops 940 56 $ 7,236 09 1898—Sawmills 2,539 38 Machine shops 1,274 68 — 3,814 06 1899—Sawmills 2,767 29 Machine shops 799 27 3,566 56 1900—Sawmills 1,949 04 Machine shops 2,442 51 4,391 55 $19,008 24 Two steamers, employing seven to eight men, are run in connection with our cannery at a cost of $2,500 each season, wages of whom are not] included in amount paid to white men. Mar Chan, Chinese contractor, of Victoria, says : I am a cannery contractor,— contract by the case. I employ my men by the month and^pay from $50 to $60 a month for can-makers. In one cannery probably thirty are employed making cans. I contract with three canneries on the Fraser and three on "the Skeena River. Last year I employed 180 men in the three canneries on the Fraser. I also employ Indians to help as well. I employed eighty men for can-making. The cans are made at the cannery before the season opens. The tin is owned by the canneryman and brought there. Everything in the way of machinery and material is owned by the canneryman. When the fish commence to run we try to employ all the Indians we can get for cleaning the fish and for miscellaneous work around there, such as carrying the cans from the can loft to the fish fillers. The lowest wage paid is $37.50. I lost money last year. It was a bad year. I employ no whites. Out of a total of 180 Chinese employed I cannot remember now how many are married. There may be a few. Q. Would you venture to swear there are five out of the lot ?—A. Yes. Q. How do you know: who are they 1—A. Mar Sue is one—I cannot remember, the others. 142 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The contract price per case has decreased. The price now is cheaper than formerly. They have more machinery now used in the canneries than formerly. In the ordinary work the machine has taken the place of the ordinary work and the men employed in these places are experts in their lines. There is a competition among the cannery contractors to get the experts, which has a tendency to raise the wages. I furnish the men with provisions. The workmen in the canneries of course get their pro- * visions from my firm. The wages paid to Chinese ten years ago in the cannery business was much less than now. Wages have been getting higher every year. A great many have gone away from here, going to other places. A great many have gone to the American side. There is more work and better pay over there. There they have a longer period of work than they have here. The wages are probably about the same, but the length of labour would be longer there than here. Over there they put up every kind of fish that comes along and they have no close season. The men get an advance before they go to the canneries. In the first lot of them —that is the men who go to make the cans—they get from $40 to $50 advanced before they go to the cannery. The second lot of men that go got an advance of from $30 to $40 last year. If they do not get it they won't go. That is the custom of the men going. If the fish do not come they cannot make any money unless I pay that money. I do not get it back. It is not marked a debt; it only holds for that season. I get men to work in the canneries from the labouring class—men who work in the gardens —anybody I can get. Q. Is it because these men refuse to leave their places of employment and take the chances of the canning business, you have to make this advance ?—A. Yes, they have to be paid in advance before they quit their employment to go to the cannery. The contract price for canning salmon is about five cents cheaper per case on the American side than on this side. They fill fish by machinery. Q. How much do the Chinese get on the American side where they have filling machines ?—A. Those who have filling machines are one cent or two cents cheaper per case. Q. Outside of the filling machines what would be the difference 1—A. They have got machines for cutting the fish and chopping the fish different from what they have here. Q. Haven't they a machine for that purpose on the Fraser river ?—A. The machine over there is quite different from that they have here. Q. How much is the difference in labour on the case ?—A. It is a difference of two cents on the case. Note.—It was explained by the canners, that filling machines were not generally used on the Fraser because it could not be done by machinery as nicely and well as by hand, and the hand-filled cans commanded a higher price in the market. Q. Have you to guarantee a certain amount of money %—A. The first lot of them some have to be guaranteed four months' work and some in the second lot had to be guaranteed two months' work. Q. Does the cannery proprietor advance you this money to pay the advance to the men 1—A. Yes, they pay part of the advance ; they pay certain sums for that purpose, but it is not a sum that will cover the total advance. Q. If you should advance more than the men can pay back who is the loser, you or the cannery proprietor 1—A. I would lose the money. Q. If there were not many fish would you lose the money or the cannery proprietor 1 —A. The canners would lose and the contractor would lose. The canners would come back on me for the advance they had made me. Q. Do you mean to say you guarantee so much work for the men and have all the margin of money between what you pay the men and the money you get from the canner ?—A. We generally figure to make a margin of profit out of the provisions we sell to them. Q. I suppose then the chance of losing on the advance is made up by the price on the provisions ?—A. And also the prospect of a good run of fish, and making a big pack. That gives me some profit. V ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 143 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The way it is done is this : all the provisions sent to the cannery are ordered by the foreman and then at the end of the month it is averaged and all pay pro rata. It is the same in the canneries where they employ their own" help directly. At Bell-Irving's cannery they pay their men in the same way. They work it on the same principle in other canneries like BeU-lxving's, where they get paid directly. It is all thrown in together and at the end of each week they average to each man. Q. Do they deduct that amount from the men's wages %—A. When the pay roll is made out the boarding house bill is deducted from the wages. The wages are then paid to each individual. Henry O. Bell-Irving, of Vancouver, said : I represent the Anglo-British Columbia Packing Company. We have six canneries on the Fraser River, one on the Rivers Inlet, two on the Skeena River, and then we have two in Alaska and one on Puget Sound. On the Fraser River last year we employed from seven to eight hundred men inside the canneries, and up to a thousand, possibly twelve hundred. That would be a fair average during the busiest season. The number varies with the season. Of the twelve hundred, about one hundred and eighty are whites, probably three hundred are Indian women, and the rest are Chinese. The capacity of our canneries is from 140,000 to 150,000 cases per season. 1897 was probably the nearest approach to our full capacity, when I think our pack was 120,000 cases. At two of the canneries on the Fraser River inside work- is done by day labour. It is done by contract in the others. The Chinese contractors hire their help in their own way; we do not generally inquire how. Approximately their wages vary from $35 to $40 a month. They board themselves. Indian women are paid by piece work, as a rule, for filling cans. They earn from a dollar to a dollar and a quarter a day, sometimes more. They are hired by the Chinese contractor. Scarcely any Japanese and Indians are employed inside the canneries. The proportion of whites to Japanese and Indians employed in and about the canneries is about the same. We employ fewer Chinese on the Skeena, and there is a larger number of Indians and Indian women inside the canneries. We employ there about seventy-five Chinamen in each cannery, about fifteen white men and seventy-five Indians, male and female. At Rivers Inlet we employ ninety Chinamen and about the same number of Indians, male and female, inside the cannery. The wages at these places for inside work is about the same as at Fraser River, only we have to pay their fares up there. In Alaska last year we employed one hundred and twenty Chinese, one hundred and sixty Indians and about twenty whites, inside the factory proper. In our Puget Sound cannery we have from one hundred and eighty to two hundred Chinese inside the cannery, and in the busy season we have probably fifty whites and say one hundred Indians additional. The work is done by contract, about twenty per cent lower than in British Columbia. This is accounted for by the fall pack being so large and the season longer. Wages to whites there is about the same as in British Columbia, but & O 7 the season being longer, and the pack larger, the cost per case is very much less. We hire white men there by the season. Everything here is done with a rush, and costs more than in the United States. Frequently the cost over there is a little more than one-half what it is in British Columbia. Materials are cheaper also. We had not enough labour to take care of all the fish in 1897. We had all the plant and appliances on hand that was necessary, everything excepting labour. The demand for it that year was abnormal owing to the heavy run. In ordinary years labour is getting more difficult to obtain. It has necessitated more machinery being employed, though we pay about practically the same for labour per case and we make advances in cash before any work is done. The advances practically fall upon us because none of the men are very responsible. We have one contractor for each cannery. The principals reside in Victoria. The contracts are usually drawn up in the names of a working partner and a sleeping partner. The first has no means as a rule, and the other is supposed to have, although it is often found that he has not got any. It occurs 144 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 frequently that they do not get the labour we require. Our season is so short that if we miss a day or two out of the run it is a great loss to us, and we have to keep a large number of men on hand so as to cope with an emergency. The sharp demand for men does not begin until the beginning of July. We employ fewer Chinese now than seven years ago, but we have been compelled to employ more machinery and pay the Chinese the same per case for doing the work. The ease with which labour would be obtained may have had to do with the rapid increase in the number of canneries. Labour was certainly more easily obtained in former years than now. There were larger profits made a few years ago than now or ever likely to be made again. If there are too many canneries it will mean the survival of the fittest. A considerable portion of the pack is represented by certain fixed charges which go on whether the run is good or bad, managers' salaries, steamboat services, insurance and other charges that amount up in an alarming way. Our white labour bill in 1900, independent of managers' salaries, amounted to 92 cents a case ; added to this is 16 cents per case for the messhouse bill, whereas the Chinese labour bill was $1.01 a case. In other words, out of the $7.16 a case at that cannery, the Chinese labour bill was $1.01 or onerseventh of the whole, and probably 25 per cent of the amount was paid by the Chinese contractor to the labour he employed, such as Indians, both men and women. At another cannery the white labour bill was $1.20 per case as against 88^- cents for Chinese labour. Of course last year's figures were quite exceptional. In 1897 the white labour bill was 33-^ cents as against Chinese labour 83 cents. These figures cover an exceptionally good run and a poor one. The percentage of the cost of labour paid to the Chinese varies a little to the total cost of 17* in 1896. A great deal the pack. It varies from 13^ in 1900, 15^ in 1899 and depends on the run of fish, but the fixed charges go on. Take the pack for the big year, that is for 1897, 1,015,477 cases, the approximate cost of which is $3,572,800. Out of that I figure that $964,656 represents material manufactured elsewhere than in British Columbia. Seventeen per cent represents the the amount paid to the Chinese labour contractor, and I think 5 per cent of the 17 per cent represents the payment by the Chinese to their Indian employees, leaving 12 per cent actually earned by the Chinese themselves. That represents earnings by the Chinese of $428,736, and the earnings of the employees of the Chinese $178,640. The balance, 50 per cent, of the total cost of production was $2,000,768. That represents the sum of money practically distributed in British Columbia for all sorts of material, labour, machinery, steamboat service, insurance, lumber and everything in fact produced in British Columbia. Other things being equal, we would prefer to employ whites. I do not think it is a good thing to increase the restriction tax on Chinese from $50 to $100, or to have any restriction put upon the labour of the country. We must have cheap labour for production, where we have to compete in foreign markets, or to be forced out of the markets entirely. Being in a position to employ cheap labour enables us to give good pay to a large number of good men, high class men. If there were no Chinese to be had the industry would lie idle to a large extent. They receive a very small portion of the cost of production, and yet they are an important factor in the industry. The cost of production- fluctuates more than his wages amount to. I think the industry has reached very nearly its maximum in British Columbia. We are suffering from competition among the canners, and we are suffering from a scarcity of Chinese labour. The pack would be restricted enormously if we were to employ all white labour, or we would have to close up entirely. Supposing further restrictions were introduced, as long as we had the present supply of cheap labour we could get along. I believe white labour in British Columbia would be greatly benefitted by a large number of Chinese in the country. The conditions of life would be very much easier in £he development of our resources if white men and their families had servants like the Chinese to do the dirty work for them. I think it is the destiny of the white men to be worked for by the inferior races. The canneries do not supply a place for a labourer with a family to start in this province, but there is other work in the country. My view is that for the time being it ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 145 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 would be better to have the places requiring unskilled labour filled with Chinese, than to have them filled with white people, and reserve the higher places for the whites. I think it better that they should be employed rather than that we should not have the industries established. A great many of the white men go to the mines, and then cheap labour comes in in the form of the Chinaman. The white labour does not come in, so the difficulty goes on increasing. The presence of the Chinese cheap labour here enables industries to go on .that would otherwise be impossible, and the country is benefitting in consequence. No cannery on the coast has ever successfully employed exclusively white labour. The Chinese are steady in their habits, reliable in their work and reliable to make contracts with. They won't strike while you have a big pile of fish on your dock. They are less trouble and less expense than whites. They are content with rough accommodation at the canneries. If yon employ white people you have to put up substantial buildings with every modern appliance, only to be occupied six weeks in the year. The Canneries draw upon all other industries for their Chinese labour. Quite a few domestics come to work. Exclusion would make the conditions very acute within the next few years. The Chinamen would go home and die off. * I do not think there is any reason for exclusion just now. I know there is no reason for any extension of the canneries, and if the present number of Chinese would be preserved, I believe the industry could be maintained. I believe that if traps were employed fewer men would be necessary, and the white men would receive much better pay. We will employ Chinamen just the same inside the canneries. I believe free trade in labour for some time to come would be the best policy. I* would like to see all restrictions taken off the Chinese. I have resided in Canada since 1882. I would like to see the country settled by white people, but I do not think it possible just now. The Chinese will remain a race apart. They will never assimilate, and it is not desirable that they should. I look upon them as steam engines or any other machine, the introduction of which deprives men of some particular employment, but in the long run, it enormously increases the employment. The Chinese standard of living is not comparable at all with that of the white man. I know white men would not care to live as they do. At Astoria, Oregon, where they have a population of eight or ten thousand white people, they'employ almost entirely Chinese for the same work as we do. There are probably about six thousand Chinese in the canneries in British Columbia. The few weeks a white man would be employed in the cannery would not make it possible for a white man to start a family upon. Prior to 1895 the salmon industry on Puget Sound was very limited indeed, butOt grew very rapidly afterwards. The packs for three years were as follow:— 1898. 1899. 1900. Puget Sound . 355,000 871,500 432,000 Fraser River ... 256,000 510,000 316,000 The pack on Puget Sound was divided amongst seventeen canneries as against forty-eight on Fraser River. Filling machines work more satisfactorily if the fish are fresh, as from trap fishing. No filling machines are used in this vicinity. Fraser River packers have found it to their advantage to keep up the quality of the pack by carefully hand-filling the cans. Machines are used in Alaska and some on Puget Sound, but if we used them we would have to take so much less for our fish, though by using them we could dispense with a great deal of labour. The Automatic Can Company saves Chinese labour, but canners, to make sure of the advance to the Chinese and to keep them through the season, prefer to pay a premium to them in order to have them on hand during packing operations. 12^ cents are allowed to Chinese when the cans are made at the cannery. I think the cost for labour at the Automatic Can Company is about five cents a case. The capacity of our 54—10 146 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 canneries in British Columbia is about 13,600 cases a day. The cost of our plant to insure that production would not be less than $360,000. We find that day labour costs more than contracting inside the cannery. The Chinese boss can obtain better results than we can with the same men. Undoubtedly if there was an abundance of labour for the inside work of the canneries we could handle a great many more fish and pay better prices for them- In July and August I would place the number of people engaged directly in the business in British Columbia at from 20,000 to 25,000 full grown men and women. Harvesting happens about the same time. The summer months are the best in almost every line of business. A small proportion of the fishermen bring their families.with them, excepting the Indians. White women would not care to camp out under the conditions that exist during the fishing season. Almost everybody in the province is either directly or indirectly interested in the canneries. I think the Chinese are particularly adapted to the canning industry. I cannot well conceive conditions, that the canneries can bring about at the present time more favourable to the white men of the country without stifling the business itself. We are able to carry on the industry with the aid of the Chinese, which would not exist otherwise. If it were not for the competition of the Alaska canneries -with their cheaper fish, the canneries in British Columbia would be pretty well off. The canneries of British Columbia could easily put up two million cases if the fish were there. I do not think the whites are being replaced by the Chinese. As a practical fact the canners have not found it possible to employ whites for that class of work. The Chinese make very good wages. I do not know what the views of other canners are in respect to immigration. We put up an especially high grade of goods on the Fraser and spend a great deal of extra labour in doing so, to fill a special market in England. The average number of fishermen connected with our canneries would be from nine hundred to a thousand men. * About half of the fishermen are white men ; the balance are Japanese and Indians ; probably a little more of the balance are Japanese. On the Skeena we employ about 150 fishermen ; that is, net men and boat pullers, chiefly Indians. Of them, there are perhaps thirty white men at each place, and twenty- five Japanese all told. Indian labour is becoming scarce. At Rivers Inlet we have about 220 net men and boat pullers. Of these, about 40 are white men, about 40 Japanese, and the rest are Indians. Last year was the first year we employed Japanese to any extent. The fishing in Alaska is all done by seining, at which we employ about sixty or seventy men. We supply the gear, and the men are paid so much a fish. There is a larger quantity of fall fish packed there than altogether in British Columbia. Responsible men are paid high wages there, probably $90 a month. Fishing on Puget Sound is done principally by traps by all white labour, which is very well paid. We cannot really call them fishermen. They are cutting piles and driving them with steam pile drivers, running steamers, &c. Gill nets are used very little there. We employ no gill nets, whatever, although we buy a few fish from the gill net men. Trap fishing is licensed by the Fish Commissioner, for which we pay $50 a trap. The traps are placed in navigable water. Any American individual or corporation, formed or established under the laws of the State of Washington is entitled to use three traps. Their size varies very much f some are 2,000 feet in length ; 1,200 would be a fair average. There is no exact width. It is a system of continuous fishing, and at the same time a sort of warehousing them, keeping them alive. I hardly think the work could be done by the Japanese. The piles are taken out every year. Some traps are very costly. The average first cost would be about $3,000, and including the cost of operating it, and wear and tear, about $4,000 for one season. The difference in cost is in getting a good or bad location. Much experimenting has to be done to get a place where traps lay down properly, and where, the piles may be driven to advantage, and to provide against them being washed away by a heavy tide. Our total expenditure on seventeen traps last' year, including the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 labour in connection with them was $97,000 ; that included three traps on the British side at Boundary Bay,, which we have operated for some time under a license. This will be our sixth year on Puget Sound. Fishermen in Northern Alaska can catch 1,500 fish a day with one-third the netting we use on the Fraser River. In 1896 the average cost of fish at four canneries was $2.07 a case. The average ost on Puget Sound the same year was $1.05 a case. In 1897 fish were the lowest I have ever known. On the Fraser River fish cost on an average at four canneries about 95 cents a case. On Puget Sound the cost was 84 cents, but owing to the very large number of fish we caught and could not use there, we had to. liberate them. Labour was not obtainable. On the Fraser the price started at ten cents per fish, eight cents after a while, and I daresay some off lots at odd times for five or six cents. We calculate about twelve and a half fish to the case. The fish are smaller in big runs. In 1898 the difference in cost per case in favour of Puget Sound was 80 cents; in 1899 about 44 cents ; in 1900 it was in favour of Fraser River by about $1.13. Alaska is a great factor. There must have been twelve or fifteen new canneries put up there this year in addition to additions put to others. In 1897, if there had been more Chinese we should have given employment to more white men outside in fishing. There were very few Japanese then. In a big year the cost of fish is a great factor. The parties who interested themselves in Puget Sound in the first instance were British Columbia packers. The industry has been driven very largely across to Puget Sound because they are not hampered with so many restrictions there as to fishery regulations, &c. They saw a chance of getting more fish there and getting them cheaper by the use of traps. They have no close season there. The crew for a trap consists of five or six men, who get $50 or $60 a month each and board. Two extensive traps might keep a cannery going, or it might take ten. In early days on the Fraser River forty boats would catch enough fish to supply a cannery. It has become necessary to employ one hundred boats now. Traps would alter the situation very much. Fewer men would be employed, and they would become more mechanics than fishermen. You can do better with traps. The fish can be kept alive for a few days before they are required. If, as has happened on several occasions, an enormous run of fish has come, and we cannot use them all, it is possible to open the trap and let the fish go. These are not destroyed ; whereas catching fish with gill nets you cannot keep them long, and great care has to be exercised in the selection of fish brought in by gill net boats. If traps were used I think entirely white labour would be employed, as at present on Puget Sound. By them we could dispense with a great many fishermen, but to adopt them immediately would constitute a hardship and an injury to the fishermen. I look upon trap fishing as being the scientific method of catching salmon for the market. I should think $65 would be a fair figure to allow for the depreciation of the value of a boat and net for a season.' We pay now about $77 for a round bottom boat, whereas we used to buy flat-bottomed skiffs for from $25 to $35. Canners frequently commence the season by paying a figure for fish which they know will result in a loss to them just to get the work started. The average fisherman on the Skeena catches more fish than on the Fraser. The average number of fishermen on the Skeena is a little smaller per cannery, and the canners there do not prepare such large packs. We pay 20 cents a fish on the Fraser, 10 cents a fish on the Skeena, and in Alaska from 1 cent to 8 cents a fish. We catch them in our own traps on Puget Sound. Fish kept in traps begin to suffer after three days. Regulations for close time could be easier enforced with traps, and they would be better for the spawning grounds. That is clearly proved, I think, by the number of fish that go up the river on Monday morning. During a heavy run you are able to liberate the superfluous fish from the traps. Personally I believe it would be in the interests of both canners and fishermen if an arrangement could be made to reduce the number of boats on the Fraser River. I have seen 15,000 fish taken out of a trap in forty minutes. The trap has as great an 54—lOi 148 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 advantage over net fishing as an express train over a wheel-barrow. I have known of one boat earning $200 a day on the Fraser River. We made heavy losses on Puget Sound last year. We lost money on the Fraser for the last three years. In the world's market we have to compete with a cheaper production in Alaska. There the fish cost very little. They can produce at $2.25 to $2.50 per case delivered in San Francisco. It is practically the sanie fish, but not as good as the Fraser River or Skeena fish. The Alaska fish finds a market in the United States chiefly. From 450,000 to 500,000 cases of Alaska fish go to the United Kingdom. They do not command as good a price as the Fraser River fish, because of our pack being of such a good class. The average difference in the market price would, I think, be from Is. 6d. to 2s. 6d. a case in the English market. Alaska is our chief competitor, although Puget Sound is running it pretty close. Puget Sound can take a good place with Fraser River. The difference in cost on the Fraser River on an average over Puget Sound per case was, in 1896, 89 cents | in 1897, (that was a big run) the difference was 13 cents-; in 1898, about $1.26; in 1899, about $1.90; in 1900, about 68 cents. The average market value of sock-eyes is a very difficult question to answer. After the shortage was known last year the price went away up, to 27s. 6d. from 22s. Most people sold in advance last year and lost severely in consequence. As a rule they sell partly in advance and hold partly for the future. I do not think people can sell at all just now ; there is no business offering. We sell British Columbia salmon in Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom. Our Alaska and Puget Sound output we sell in the United States and the United Kingdom. The cost of fish was less prior to 1897. As an inducement for white labour to come here we cannot pay a trifle more, as we depend upon conditions we cannot control. The market does not depend on whether you employ Chinese or not. British Columbia, under favourable circumstances, may furnish 1,000,000 cases out of a total pack for the coast of 3,500,000. The Canadian market takes from 80,000 to 100,000 cases. Frank Burnett, of Vancouver, President of the United Canners' Company, Limited, said : I have been connected with the cannery business for four years. Production by our company last year about 50,000 cases. We employ from 200 to 600 Chinese. We do not employ any Chinese, except the cook, except by contract. We contract with one man to make the cans and fill them and prepare them for shipment. The contractor is a Chinaman. He employs Indian women by the month. I do not know what the Chinamen under him earn per day. We let the contract by bargain. We contract that women altogether shall be employed for the cleaning of the fish. As a matter of fact we supply them and charge them to the contractor. We can get the women better than he can. They do the work of cleaning the fish better than Chinese. We have been able to get enough Indian women to do that work. We have three canneries, two two years old and one three years old. The Chinese make the cans, fill them, solder them, cook them, lacquer them and fill them into the cases. We have five white men in each cannery, perhaps eight or twelve in each. All canneries do not pay alike to the boss Chinaman. The work is done a little cheaper since we have used machinery. White men could do the work of the Chinese in the canneries. With a little experience I think he could do the work as well as the Chinaman. I do not think he could do it as cheaply. Chinese are very clever at it. If a Chinaman takes the contract he gets Chinese to do the work. The boss Chinaman has not had any difficulty that I know of so far in getting sufficient Chinamen. The Chinese have nothing to do with catching the fish. We have never tried to get white men to do the work of Chinese. I do not think the white men are here in sufficient numbers to do the work, and be out of employment the rest of the time. I do not know where you could get employment for the immense number of men employed for the fishing season in the forty canneries on the Fraser River. If no more Chinese came in we would have no difficulty in getting all we want. The Chinese who are here are the ones we want. If there was exclusion there would be no difficulty at the present time, but there would be in the future ;' that would depend ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 149 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 upon the mortality of the Chinese here. Sentimentally I am in favour of restriction, but from a business point of view I would favour it to a certain extent. The increase of a tax from $50 to $100 I do not think amounts to anything. I think a higher poll tax would be advisable. I would not absolutely exclude the Chinese, but it would prevent such a large number coming in. I am inclined to think too many have come in. What to suggest is hard to say; $300 I think would certainly tend to keep a large number from coming in, tend to decrease the number. I do not think it would keep them from coming in altogether. Exclusion would affect us very soon ; some die, and some go back to China. Our contractor tells us he had difficulty in getting all the Chine1 e he wanted. It was not to his interest to say so. It might be his interest to say so while the Commission is sitting. My idea is that the equilibrium obtains now,— that there is enough here now,- but I would restrict increase to a certain number coming in, so as to supply the demand. Sentimentally I prefer exclusion. I would certainly rather see the country developed by white labour. I think that would be desirable, because the Chinaman does not assimilate. He is a foreigner all the time. It is not desirable that they should assimilate. Those who pretend to assimilate and pretend to belong to churches are far worse than those who do not profess to be converted. Their profession of conversion in nearly every case is hypocrisy. They become tremendous rascals, when they pretend to become Christians. An unconverted Chinaman is generally honest, and can always be relied on to keep a contract. The more converted a Chinaman becomes the worse he becomes. As to the character of Chinese for honesty, with the exception of those who pretend to be converted, I have found no better people as regards honesty, for keeping their contracts. I think they are far ahead of the Japanese as regards the keeping their contracts. The Chinaman will keep a contract whether he wins or loses by it as far as possible. The English market is our principal market. We do not control the trade by any means ; our great competitor is Alaska in the English and Australian markets. I know that they can sell fish cheaper than we can. The price of fish in the English market varies very much. 1 think there are not enough white men and Indians to do the fishing on the river. I do not think there are too many nets on the river. In the heavy runs there were more fish caught than could be saved. • The position taken that if there were a fewer number of boats the fishermen would catch more to the boat, is theory. There has been no opportunity to prove that yet. The boss never complained of any scarcity of Chinese labour. On account of the strike last year the Chinese were idle half the time. We cannot pay the same price for fish one year as another. If there is a pack of 600,000 cases on the Fraser river we are not going to get the same price in England as if there were only 200,000 cases put up. It is a case of supply and demand. The price went away up when it was found that the pack was a failure last year, and it would have gone down if the pack had been a great success. The price has gone down from 38s. to 28s. 6d. for half pound flats. During the strike it went up 8 shillings in a week or two weeks ; that would mean an advance of 20 cents a fish ; of course that was phenomenal. The extent of the run and the fluctuation of the market is one of the difficulties in respect of the trouble in fixing the price. You can no more make the price more continuous or more steady, than you can arrange for the price of wheat or any other commodity to be more steady. I have sold out almost completely. I have made no money in it. To-day I have practically no cannery stock at all, and I am glad, too. I think a great many I have met have been no more fortunate than I have been. There have been no failures, but many are in the hands of the banks and the banks have to carry them. There must certainly be a certain number of people to take care of the fish of the canneries, but not necessarily Chinese. The Chinese are necessary at the present time, because I do not think there is white labour enough available. There is a parallel case in Manitoba. When the wheat crop comes on they have to provide for the harvesting by bringing white labourers in from the east, and taking them back again when the harvest is over. The same conditions exist there. I was fifteen years.in Manitoba and know how it was. It is a question whether the Canadian Pacific Railway could bring so many here, and take them back again to do the same here. The Chinese get well paid for the time they 150 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 are working; it is not cheap labour by any means. Some of them would probably be employed for four months, and others for six or seven weeks ; about two-thirds for only six or seven weeks. I do not think there are too many canneries ; I do not think there are too many fishermen. Every four years we have a good run. I believe in free trade. It is a case of the survival of the fittest. If white fishermen were there we would rather deal with them. We pay fishermen the same price all round. If you increase the cannery for a big year you lose so much more in other years, so it becomes purely a matter of dollars and cents. I think they have reached the limit now; that is the way I have got out of the business. I think mostly from domestic service the Chinese are drawn, that work inside the canneries. I know of two canneries that have practically failed. The traps on the other side is one thing that has decreased the price of their fish. James Anderson, whose cannery is in the city of New Westminster, said : I corroborate the evidence of Mr. Ewen as to the labour question, what it cost in machinery, and the like. I might differ with him a little about the number of canneries. We could do with fewer canneries, but the people who put their money into them, that is their concern. We cannot carry on the industry without the Chinese under present conditions. I employ about 125 men all told. I start my white men on April 1, and last year I had them until November 1. I am not in favour of Chinamen coming in as freely as they please. My opinion is to get rid of Chinese and Japanese if the conditions will allow it. I think you can do better without the Japanese than without the Chinese. The Chinese do not fish, but if we got white men and their families we might get the Chinese out. That would take a number of years. That is, it would take some time. As conditions are, you cannot get white girls or boys to go to the canneries, because the Chinese are there, and they do not want to associate with them. They do not care to work alongside the Chinese. If no more Chinese came in, having regard to the numbers that are here, the change to white labour would come about gradually. It would cost wkite people a good deal to come to the coast. There would be work for them if there were no Chinese or Japanese. I would like to see nothing but white labour in the country. I am speaking personally, not from a business standpoint. If there was further restriction on further immigration, there would be the difficulty of replacing the labour, that is our difficulty. The presence of Chinese and Japanese here may have a tendency to keep out white immigration, but personally I cannot say. It is a serious matter to have all the avenues of labour filled with Japanese and Chinese. We would build up the country much quicker with white labour. The Chinese supply a certain class of cheap labour that you cannot now fill with white men, but that would soon remedy itself. For removing that 7 J O difficulty I say there is no time like the present. The remedy will have to come some time, and I suppose you may as well begin now. Of course, speaking for the canning industry, we are a little handicapped here now by the competition on the other side. If no more Chinese were allowed to come in, the change would be gradual. I think it would be a mistake«to make any radical change. Many of the Chinese go to the United States, I believe, and I believe some of them are going to Toronto now as domestic .servants. I would prefer to see the oriental going out, rather than our people. Thomas R. Smith, of Robert Ward & Co., general agents, Victoria, said: Have been in the canning business as an employer three or four years. The industry was largely developed before I went into it. The industry is not dependent altogether on Japanese labour. The length of the fishing season is about two and a half months. It is not always the same. It depends on the run of fish. The supply of fish is intermittent. There may be a good supply one day and no supply the next day. These men have to wait there. Fishermen sell their fish by contract at a certain price. Of course labour is required inside the canneries to take care of the fish that are brought in by the fishermen. Fishermen are a class entirely distinct from the labourers inside the canneries. I do not think the labourers catching the fish and the labourers taking care of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 151 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 them inside, clash with each other. If there was nobody to put them in tins, the fish would not be of any value at all. Last season was a very unprofitable one. We could not have paid any more for the fish and got a profit, or paid more for the labour inside the cannery. I cannot see where white labour could be obtained. It is a question of wages to get it. I don't know what they would do the rest of the year. It would not be desirable to have white men in the country, depending upon cannery work alone. I am not in favour of curtailing industries for want of Chinese and Japanese. I would always prefer a white man to a black, there is the sentimental point of view, but it comes down to a question of dollars and cents. Countries are built up of dollars and cents. Sentiment may cost too much ; you can't bring the two points together, for what you want is not obtainable, and you have to get what you want the best way you can. I do not agree with an organized importation of labour. Exclusion would not affect trade between Canada and China and Japan. If I made a restriction against Chinese, I would also against the Japanese. I do not think it possible to get white labour at any wages to do the work in the canneries. The first labour employed inside the canneries consisted largely of Chinese. There is nothing technically difficult about the work in a cannery. The class of work could be done to a considerable extent by grown up boys and girls. The Chinaman -is a machine. I would rather a white man think sometimes than be a machine. It simply comes to this: men are not going to put money into a business unless there is a good prospect for them, and they are going to employ cheap labour if they can get it, I think the general policy should be to keep the Chinese out and gradually get white in, but the white men will have to be prepared to compete with the Chinese. It is simply a question of competition in business. I do not think it is possible for white men to be replaced entirely by the Chinese. From 1885 to 1891 I was assistant commissioner with the Hudson's Bay Company. I cannot suggest any other class of employment in this province which will permit of white men engaged in fishing industry to leave their employment and go out fishing for a couple of months in the year. The number of canneries considerably increased within the last few years. In the United States they catch fish with traps. The American fish that goes to the United Kingdom goes from Alaska. The fishermen's union are a powerful body, and have proved themselves capable of looking after themselves. If the Chinese and Japanese were excluded it might have some effect in increasing wages. If any change was made to make labour dearer, I should think the capitalist would take that into consideration before investing. Last year if the fishermen adhered to their prices, every cannery would have had to shut down, and the fisheries would have stopped. Q. Do you think in the interests of the country that the immigration of further labour of that class should be further restricted, not to send out those who are here, but to restrict the further immigration ?—A. It goes without saying that we do not want any more than we can help. It cannot be contended they are desirable citizens. From the standpoint of a citizen I should say further restriction is desirable, but when you narrow the thing down to a question of the canneries, the cost of labour is an important element, and the cannerymen have to obtain that labour at the lowest possible rates, and as long as the Chinese and Japanese are cheaper than white men he will get that labour. It is largely a question of production at a price, so as to be able to compete with the canners on the other side. Q. You have large numbers here now of both Chinese and Japanese ?—A. Yes. Q. Large enough to meet all immediate requirements 1—A. Yes. Q. So if no more of that class came in, your industry would still be carried on ?— A. Yes, it might be carried on if we had other cheap labour. Q. More white labour ?—A. Yes, sir. I am in favour of white labour in everything, but at present the Chinese are necessary over here, and we cannot do without them. If they were sent away I do not know what we would do. White labour is preferable. 152 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 Q. Having regard to the number that are in the country at present, do you think that industry is dependent upon any further admission of labour of that kind for its continuance 1—A. No, I do not think so. Of course labour will have to be obtained. If it has to be obtained at a higher price so much the worse for the industry. I should say the Chinese are the least undesirable. I think they are preferable as a matter of comparison. The Chinese will never assimilate. They are a distinct and alien race—alien in speech, habits and civilization—in every way. Q. Do you think it in the interests of this country to further increase a race of that kind ?—A. I do not think so. In the general interests of the country, I should say not. It would be unwise for a white man with a family to come into the province, unless he has something in view before he comes, because he would have to enter into competition with the labour that is in the market here. It is just such a man as that who would go away greatly disgusted with British Columbia, and injure the province, because he could not live here and compete. Q. Would you advise white men, white labouring men, to come to Victoria, under existing conditions %—A. No, I do not think so. Whether they would not be a far more desirable class of citizens is a different question. Q. From your knowledge of the canning industry, do you believe the profits of the cannerymen are as good as the profits of the manufacturers throughout the country ?— A. Yes, it is a very progressive industry of course. Q. You think they would make fully as much profit as other industries 1—A. Yes. Last year was a poor year, and it was not very good the year before that. Q. Do you think, it is wise that the Government should encourage the immigration of Chinese into the country 1—A. No, I think the general policy should be to keep the Chinese out, and gradually to get white men in. G. A. Kirk, of Victoria, said : We have three canneries and employ seventy Chinese in each cannery. We might have ten white men. We pay the Chinese contractors so much per case. We have introduced labour-saving machines in the canneries and where the work is done by them we charge the Chinamen for that. White men have never done the whole work. The white men cannot give us sufficient men to do the fishing. We employ all the white men that offer. We are only too glad to get hold of them. I know that but for the Japanese several canneries would have to shut down next year. I do not think there are. too many Japanese fishermen. I think we pay better wages than on the other side of the line. Charles F. Todd, wholesale grocer and salmon canner, said : I have resided in Victoria 37 or 38 years. There is no competition between Chinese and whites in the lines of labour I employ, that is canning, because they are not doing the same thing. The condition does not arise. We employ white men as superintendents. We contract at so much per case With the Chinese firm. It is one of the conditions that they shall not sublet their contract. The business could not be carried on without the Chinese. The labour could not be found. We have been in business since 1882. If they were not here the business would not have been developed. The Chinese are employed at the same work on the other side of the line at a cheaper rate, except in some places in Alaska where they may be able to get enough native workers. The fisheries on the coast depend on Chinese labour. I think there are between sixty and seventy canneries in the Province employing on an average I should think about 75 men each, probably from three to five thousand Chinese altogether. Up north they have some Indian help, but the work is not so much manual labour as it is expert labour, such as soldering. The packing season on the Fraser River is from four to eight weeks. A man would not get probably more than four weeks' work the season. There may be enough Chinamen now to fill up all the requirements. I think so at the present time unless the labour were diverted so that it would not be available. Chinese are not as desirable as whites, but there are lots of whites no more to be desired than Chinese. Q. If no further immigration of Chinese were allowed, do you think that trade would gradually adapt itself to the changed conditions, not to put out the Chinese that ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 153 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 are here ?—A. I do not know. It would depend on conditions not alone in British ^Columbia. The canning business is not confined to British Columbia, but is governed largely by outside conditions, so unless the conditions should change in Alaska and Puget Sound and elsewhere, white labour could not be available at a low enough wage ; •unless the wages were low enough there is only one thing would happen, it is simply a question of a fisherman taking less for the fish, or the white people to be paid more for putting them up, and if we had to pay more for putting the fish up the fishermen would have less for the fish they caught. The price varies very much. In the United States the methods of catching salmon are different from ours. They get them cheaper. They have a large home market and they go to the English market as well. Generally they export more than we do. I would not recommend the Chinese should be allowed to come in without restriction. It would be overdone. There are enough here. I should think, unless the flow becomes greater than at the present time $100 is sufficient. There are a very few coming into the country now, that is as far as I know. We have from 175 to 200 fishermen, all full grown men. All the Indian women who come to the cannery are employed. There is a great scarcity and competition for them. I have .known them to be paid as high as $3 a day. Indian boys are largely employed. Wages for women are 15 or 20 cents an hour. Boys, 10 to 15 years old, 10 to 15 cents an hour. They wash the fish apart from the Chinese. We sometimes employ them subject to the Chinese and deduct what we pay them from the Chinese contract. They board themselves; have cabins, tents and houses at' the canneries for their accommodation. Have never employed white men and boys for the same purpose. You would have to have better accommodation for white people. The season is so short. For instance, over on Puget Sound the canneries are sometimes located in cities where they may employ a certain amount of white help who live at home, but in British Columbia the conditions are entirely different. I do not see how it is possible to employ white help at all. I would certainly not like to see it done. It is very degrading. White fishermen very seldom bring their families to the canneries. The fishermen are not inclined to work inside the canneries and do not bring labour with them to take care of the fish they catch. Of the 350 fishermen I think about 100 were Japanese.- In the past a good many of them expected to get their living out of fishing only, but are wakening up to the necessity of finding some other employment as well. They find they cannot get a year's living out of one or two months' work now. We have been engaged in the canning business in Puget Sound ; employed Chinese and white people in the same capacity as here. Wages are less there than here ; for the Chinese about 20 per cent less; whites about the same wages. Cost of living cheaper there; cost of machinery we found was 50 per cent cheaper than here. The necessities of life are cheaper too, cheaper over there ; meat and farm produce are very much cheaper over there; 75 per cent of the fish over there are caught by traps, probably ten men for one trap ; with many traps together they probably would not average more than six men to a trap. The men were largely Swedes, Norwegians, Russians and Finns. Take an ordinary successful trap and the ordinary results on the Fraser River, I should think a liberal estimate would be four traps would give you the same results as 150 or 200 fishermen on the Fraser River. It would depend largely in the way traps were situated and worked. I have known one instance where one trap caught more fish than 175 fishermen did on the Fraser River, where there would not be over eight or ten men employed. We paid on the average on the Fraser River the year before last 22 cents a fish, and on Puget Sound we estimated on a fair average the fish cost us about five cents, if the traps were favourably located; 17 cents a fish difference, or equal to $2 a case is a fair average for the year 1899. Their season is longer over there; the foreign market takes only the best of fish, whereas their local market takes any kind of fish; therefore canneries can start on May 1 over on the other side and run until the end of November as they do in many cases. Over there men are employed much longer and make much more time than men do over here. 151 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902^ One of the advantages of the trap method of fishing is, that they are able to catch fish alive, therefore they can keep their fish on hand between the runs of the schools by using double pots holding the fish and keeping them alive until such time as they are able to use them. Whereas on the Fraser River the fish have to be used as soon after they are caught as possible. I believe the fish in traps have been held alive as long as two weeks on some occasions. It works to the advantage of the labourer in giving them a longer season to work and more constant work. In the canning industry, where there is great competition, it is necessa'ry to have the same conditions as elsewhere in order to compete. Q. Could you dispense with a large amount of that labour in our fishing if you used traps ?—A. I should say so. You may make it up to a man in some way by giving him longer employment, and in one year employing 35 men for seven or eight months in the year, whereas you now employ 175 men for only six weeks. They work by the month. With the use of traps Japanese could be dispensed with very largely. A man cannot afford to catch fish at the same price as they can be caught in the traps. All their sockeye salmon like ours emanate from the Fraser River. They depend almost altogether on salmon from the Fraser River. We employ ten white men in each cannery. The price of fish ran from .15 cents down to 6 cents four years ago. Of course at that time the American traps were catching fish at one cent a fish. Two men will do as much work with a soldering machine to-day as 75 men working by hand would have done some years ago. We pay more for the fish now and the price in the market has not gone up. The contract price, even with the machinery being added every year, has not gone down. There are enough canneries here for the fish running. Traps could have restrictions put on them the same as any other methods, of fishing. I look at it simply as a commercial man. W. A. Munroe, of Steveston, said: I am manager of the Phoenix and Britannic canneries, which belong to the Anglo-British Columbia Packing Company. In 1897 we had more white labour than usual. It was a large run and the Chinese were not obtainable. Our people in Vancouver set to work and sent as many white people over as they could gather up, I think 15 or 20, and about the same number came from the Westminster Automatic Can Factory. Most of those from the can factory were boys. Part of the cans were made in that factory. I myself stood outside the dyke and tried to get Indian men and women to do the work; labour was very scarce that year. We had quite a number of cans from the Automatic Can Factory in 1897. The Chinamen did not object to these cans that I am aware of. I never knew that any of our cans were punctured by anyone. They did not object to the capping machine that I am aware of. As far as puncturing cans or damaging the machine goes I do not know anything about that. We had a number of strangers who were sent from Vancouver, men not accustomed to work on machines, and because the machines would not work easily they might have thought that the Chinese had been monkeying with them. We had a little difficulty with the Chinese that year. I think it was because a number of them were opium-smokers, and we wanted to get all the work out of them we could. The whole trouble did not amount to much. The contract system did not prevent me from engaging all the white labour available for the cannery. I got all the labour I could get hold of; the contract provides for that. It is immaterial to us what labour the Chinaman brings. When fish are plentiful we are always willing to pay good prices for labour. The canning industry has not been profitable for some time. Some men went into the business and came out all right. The average man who goes into the business is very soon tied up; that is the man who goes in with a little capital. William Campbell, manager of the Automatic Canning Company, New Westminster, said : The factory running to its full capacity will turn out about 200,000 cans a day- We employ from thirty to eighty, all whites, men, boys and girls. We make cans for some of the canneries. We do not make all the cans for the company of which Bell- Irving is manager. We are usually employed on cans for about four months in the year in the summer time. I believe we can make them more cheaply than the canneries can make by hand. I believe that the labour is about one-half between the factory and hand labour. We have been in existence four years. The labour costs about $1 per thousand ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 15fr SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 cans. The canners say they have to have*Chinese help, and they employ them in making; cans for some time before the fishing season so that they will have the men on hand when the fishing season comes on. We have an advantage over individual canners in buying our material in large blocks. If the canning industry depended absolutely on our product, there would be no trouble in having enough on hand for the whole of them. There has only been a stringency on one or two occasions by reason of tin not arriving in the country in time. I never heard of any of our cans having been punctured or made defective by the Chinese in order to have the cans made by-themselves. We have had no trouble in getting white labour, and I would rather have it. 0.ur trade grows in miscellaneous cans. I do not suppose we supply more than one-renth of the cans used on the Fraser River. We manufacture cans of all sizes and descriptions. Lee Soon, of New Westminster, said : I have been in this country sixteen years. I have been in the canning business five years. I have got about $30,000 of capital invested. I have ten partners, some are here and some of them are in China. I employ eighty to one hundred hands; 20 per cent of them are white men. I have an engineer, net boss, watchman, fish collector, and some young boys who carry fish to the cans. We have also steamboat men.' Our steamer would be worth $2,750. We have from fifty to sixty Chinese in the cannery, no Japanese. Last year I had five boats of Japanese. The rest of the fishermen were white men and Indians. I would like to see our people come in very well. I would like to see the head tax remain as it is .now, $100, and not be increased any further. With a head tax like that the population would not increase any further. I am also in the merchandising business. Men in the cannery business lost a great deal last year. At first the fishermen were not satisfied, but after the strike they were satisfied, they told me so. I own considerable land in this country. It is under cultivation. We employ fifteen to eighteen Indians inside the cannery beside the fishermen. I brought all the capital I invested here from China. I paid $1,565 to white labour in the cannery last year, and $600 for wages on the steamboat. I am called on for public subscriptions, and I always subscribe. We had about twenty boats of white fisherman last year and from twelve to eighteen boats with Indians. The fishermen say there are too many boats. I think not too many boats, but too many canneries. I pay the same for fish to all. White men and Indians work our cannery boats. White fishermen struck first last year. It was not easy to get fishermen to work for me last year. There was a lot of fish last year, but there was a strike on, and they did not go out and get them. I do not think there are enough Chinamen for all the canneries this year. We cannot take so much fish from the fishermen if we have not enough men to take care of them. We hire the men at the first of July. There are just about as many men available now as last year. Thomas Robinson, of New_ Westminster, assistant to the Inspector of fisheries, said : We have no means of ascertaining the value of a plant of the individual fisherman as distinct from the whole. The statement gives the value of plant. In 1896 there were 14,227 employees. The value of the plant then was $2,197,248. In 1897 the number of employees was 19,850, the value of the plant $2,350,260. In 1898 employees 20,695, plant $2,480,245. In 1899 employees 20,037, plant $2,145,173. In 1900 employees 20,262; plant $2,839,904. These figures are from the Government return as far as published by the department, and beyond that from our own office records. The information is from the various canneries in answer to a form of questions, that is submitted to them. The price is based on ten cents a pound, so the figures will show the difference in bulk more than the market price. It will show the value of the production, rather than the market price. With regard to the plant, we have no means of ascertaining it apart from the plant which belongs to the individual fisherman. The statement includes everything in the industry. It is made up partly from the cannery returns, and partly based on the number of licenses issued. As to the employment of Chinese in canneries, in my opinion the present conditions are unnatural. The Chinese were here, were brought here from the east and the canners have made use of them, but I think that with white help they could have done the> 156 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 same work. We have depended on the Chinese till we think we need them, until we seemingly need them. Some people have worked themselves into the belief that they are necessary. We have created the necessity by our action in using them. I was at one time interested in the Fraser River Industrial Cannery. There were eighty or ninety interested in it as a co-operative association, nearly one-half were fishermen. The inside work was done by Chinamen. They had not very mi^ch to say about employing Chinese. They accepted the directions of their financial agent. The Co-operative Cannery was sold by bankrupt sale. The difficulty I should say was in the first place lack of capital, and lack of harmony amongst the membership. It ran three or four seasons, I think we had one or two successful seasons. It had profit in 1896, but I think it went behind in 1897. I have no knowledge personally to draw comparisons with labour conditions in lobster and vegetable canneries elsewhere, with salmon canning on the Fraser. I believe it was difficult to get some expert Chinamen ori*e year. I think there were fish refused? last year by the canners. The capacity of a cannery depends upon the labour and the plant within it. The canneries are very rarely worked to their full capacity, on account of the run of fish. It always seemed to me that when there were plenty of fish they were choked. I think there was a shortage of Chinamen in 1896. There was a scarcity of Chinese labour in 1897 when the run was on. It would take some time for the white men to become expert in the canneries under present conditions, because the work is in the hands of the Chinese. G. H. West, fisherman, of New Westminster, said : I think restriction of Chinese and Japanese is absolutely necessary, for the reason that we have been Crowded out by them. The Chinese do not interfere with us in gill netting. The Chinese should be restricted. White men and Indians should have the opportunity of making the money and spending it in the country. I should like to see the tax made so high that no more Chinese could come in. In Australia they have a tax for fishing licenses, and they have to pay a poll tax as well. Chinamen and white fishermen are taxed the same here. Chinese fill so many places in lumber mills during the rest of the year that white men cannot get work and cannot make a living. We only require to encourage our own people to come, but if you wish European immigration it can easily be got if the Chinese were not here. If they were sure of work they would come. I would be in favour of the Government bringing them in. The Chinese are increasing in the industry on the other side, but they have got a whole lot of white people working with them in the canneries there. A white man can earn more over there. Hezekiah Stead, fisherman, of New Westminister, said : I have seen factories and canneries run in the east successfully without either Chinese or Japanese. The presence of Chinese tends to keep white settlers from coming in, and discourages those who are in. ' A white working man who may have saved a little before he came here is scared to invest anything in the country, and they go to a country where they have not competition such as the Chinese or Japanese. I think the canners have nothing to do with the help. The contractor is supposed to supply all the help that is required. I think they hire one or two white persons, but if they hired more they would lose the contract I suppose. They would have to pay larger wages and would lose. I was inside the canneries in 1897. I think everybody could get work then inside the canneries that wanted to work. Not many fishermen worked inside. I think they would get work then there. I know there is a clause in the contract between Chinese contractor and the canner that the canner may put on anybody he likes to work in the cannery at certain wages, if there is not sufficient labour otherwise. I do not know of anyone doing it. Speaking of canneries in the east, I refer to lobster, salmon fishing and other industries in Newfoundland. 0 My sisters worked in an oil factory and a lobster factory at 40 cents a day. The white boys and girls did the work there much more satisfactorily than the Chinese do here. Just a few white people are employed around the canneries here when they could not get Chinese to take the places. The capacity of a lobster cannery in the east is from 500 to 3,000 cases in a season. I think the season is two months ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 for the lobster fishing. We have machinery in some factories, some are on a small scale. They got white people there from the fishing villages and from the fishermen's families. There have been quite a number of people come here from Newfoundland, and they are moving home again because of the Chinese and Japanese. They do not come to stay here and compete. They think it is likely to be better there in the future, and they would not build houses here and settle. r. LiuO I do not think the traps are going to hurt fishing at all on the river; the traps on the American side, I mean. It is my opinion that the fish will follow their own course up the river, and they will shun the traps; they will learn to shun the traps. It did not take long for the fish in Newfoundland to keep clear of the traps near shore. :* **$$ John C. Kendall, fisherman, of New Westminster, said: If the Chinese and3Japanese continue to come in here I will either have to leave or to starve. The Mongolians have cut me out of everything as well as they have done in the fishing. During the three years I have been here, I have only been able to secure work for four months outside of the fishing. I cannot get work outside of the city. • --i I do not believe that canners cannot get white labour here. I have met white men with tears in their eyes starving, and could not get work because of the Chinese and Japanese here. George Mackie, fisherman, of New Westminster, said: No more Chinese or Japanese should be allowed here, because white immigration is more desirable. Enough white people have left here since I came to supply all the demands for labour, if the Chinese and Japanese had not been here. I know a great many people in the cities who would be glad to get employment that the Chinese and Japanese have to-day, more particularly the Chinese. There are enough white men and Indians in the province to do all the fishing. In the old country at the herring .curing establishments they do the same work as the canneries here all with white labour. If no more Chinamen came in the canners would turn round and employ white boys and girls, and in one season would become as expert as any Chinaman. The Chinese only employ white boys and girls at the time of a big rush. The presence of the Mongolians not only prevents immigration of white people, but it drives many people who are here out of the country. Men who came from Scotland and Canada are returning to where they came from. A floating population that used to come here only come now in small numbers. They employ Chinese in the canneries because it saves the management a great deal of bother. There would not be much trouble to get white labour. Rev. John Perry Bowell, clergyman of the Methodist Church, New Westminster, said: I am personally acquainted with a large number of fishermen, who came to the province with the expectation of finding profitable employment in the fisheries on the Fraser, and the deep sea fisheries as well. Those who came several years ago succeeded to their own satisfaction. Several of them secured little blocks of land and built for themselves homes; but the greater portion of them were not only fishermen, but were skilled mechanics—carpenters and shipbuilders—and specially fitted to go into shipbuilding. Since the influx of Chinese these same people are pretty severely tested. Many of them had to go all over the province seeking employment, and a large number had to leave the country. Nearly all of these were men with families. Were the Chinese and Japanese not here, I am persuaded we would get a large number of people from Newfoundland. I have a great many letters from there inquiring as to the conditions here, but I would consider it a great crime on my part to advise any of these people to come here. Were the conditions such as they ought to be in a British province, large numbers of men from eastern points would easily be induced to take up little holdings and settle here. Owing to the increased cost of living of this coast the condition of the labourer here is no better than the condition of the unskilled labourer in the east, and the man out of employment in the east has not the great irritation of seeing the labour he could perform in the hands of foreigners. It has the effect of practically stopping white people from coining here. The Chinamen who are here would be sufficient for some time to come. On Vancouver Island especially I have observed that the Chinese are inclined to do work that white men in this country at any rate do not care to do. If our boys had work in the canneries during the fishing season they would gp^ 158 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 ' be a great help to their family. The canners only employ white people when there is a rush. The Chinese are employed every day, while the white people are. employed sometimes for a few hours in a week. There would be no inconvenience to the canneries if no more Chinese came in. In many places near settlements, the school vacations could be made to fit in with the cannery seasons. If fishermen had their families living in the neighbourhood of the canneries, it would encourage settlement, and in the fishing , season they would be readily available. Newfoundlanders have large families. I would not like to see boys and girls under twelve years working in the canneries, I but I have known boys and girls to work until two o'clock in the morning for a week at a stretch. If there were no Japanese on the river I say there would be sufficient white people to be got to work the canneries to their reasonable capacity—onen, women and girls. There is destitution among the fishermen in Newfoundland, amongst the fishermen when there>is a short run; there is not likely to be so much destitution here. Expensive management has a good deal to do with the trouble. Labour does not get its share. I would consider 10 per cent fair interest on money invested. In the case of the canning industry a little more interest might be allowed; I should say 25 per cent. Canners have to pay a larger price for fish now than they did before the invasion of the orientals. With fewer fishermen they would pay less, and yet the fishermen would make money. . The increase in the price of fish due to orientals was not a good thing for the white people. Before the orientals came the fishermen made good wages. I have seen no evidence of the industry here being crippled by traps on the American side. In Newfoundland about two-thirds of the population, 225,000, I would say about two-thirds would be depending on tbe fishing industry, I should say 100,000 were actually engaged. Those people I spoke of from Newfoundland came here from ten to twelve yea,rs ago. Since I came here very little has been done in regard to deep sea fishing. I believe the cod-fish here would give employment to a large number of people, but men who understand vessels and deep sea fishing would have to engage in it. I would call a fair remuneration in this country not less than $1.50 a day. Encouragement should be given every way for men to marry,, and their families growing up in the country. I do not think the American methods of fishing are prudent, but they are not so undesirable as the presence of Chinese and Japanese here. The use of traps may be a factor, but not a very large one. The question to be considered is, will cheap Chinese benefit the employer and injure the labourer? Being one-sided some remedy should be employed. I think the fact that the Japanese is better qualified to adapt himself to the conditions prevailing here makes him a greater menace than the Chinamen, who are common to our own labouring people. I do not think there is enough' white labour at present to replace the Chinese in the inside work in the . canneries. A good deal of the distress which occurred in Newfoundland was attributable to the fishing having been depleted. If not attended to very soon.here the result may be the same. The vast majority of the fishermen here have been unmarried men and that is not a very desirable condition of things in a new country. Fishermen who come to this country usually have been seafaring men, or fishermen elsewhere. Their first thought of course when here was fishing. A great many have come and gone away. A large proportion of the fishermen on the river are bona fide fishermen, but they cannot under present circumstances rely on fishing for a living. M. J. Coulter, of New Westminster, said: I am vice-president of the Grand Lodge of Fishermen's Union of British Columbia. I am a fisherman, have been four years on the Fraser river. I also fished for eleven years on the Columbia river before coming .here. I am a British subject. I am opposed to the further immigration of Chinese and Japanese. They hurt the interests of white labour. In the fishing industry they are not individual but contract labour. The canneryman engages white men individually, but when he wants Chinese ,i or Japanese he goes to a Chinese or Japanese boss and says : how many men can you supply me with, and he gets them at so much a head. Patrick Cain, of New Westminster, fisherman, said: The Chinese ought to be ..excluded as well as the Japanese. The Chinese do not fish; they take care of the fish „after.they are caught. White people could easily be got to work in the canneries if ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 159 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 there were no Chinese here. If they could not get them in this country, they could get them in some other country. The cannery people will take as many fish this year I suppose as the Chinese can take care of. I do not think it would harm the country if every fisherman were required to provide labour to take care of the fish he caught himself. It would be better if it were done in that way. I think they should be able to compete with the Americans in the English markets. Thomas Sheaves, fisherman, of New Westminister, said : The Chinese do not interfere with my business of fishing, but if they were not here I could get the cutting of -cord wood out in winter and lots of other jobs. White people can do the Chinese work in the canneries just as well. It would not do for white people to depend altogether on the work that they would get inside the canneries, but there would be a great many good white settlers if there were not Chinese or Japanese in the province. I want to make a living in my own country and I want to have justice. Alfred Totterman, fisherman, of Steveston, said: If the canneries would only employ white labour and nothing else, they could get plenty of it. The Chinese labour can be replaced by Indians and white women. I myself can supply three women to the canneries. Canners seem to prefer Chinese. I have seen lots of Indians and white women turned away*right in Steveston over here. I know of many families who have got three or four children that are able to work, and two-thirds of them are married and have families. The Chinese contractor contracts to put up all the fish for the season. Only the surplus labour is given to white people. I consider that women and boys are better than Chinamen in the canneries. If there is any inducement for white people to come here, there will be enough of them for all the work that is required in the canneries. If there were no Chinese or Japanese here there would be no difficulty in getting a sufficient number of white and Indian fishermen, citizens of the country to do all the fishing, and to secure all the canneries require. That is my opinion founded on many years' observation. Capt. J. L. Anderson, of Vancouver, formerly a fisherman, said : Chinese take the place of cheap white labour that might be employed in the canneries. All the labour in the canneries could be easily supplied by white labour from the east, say from Montreal and Quebec, and even from. Newfoundland. The canneries seem to prefer the Chinese and Japanese. John Stewart Fraser, of New Westminster, said: The conditions existing now are alarming. They alarm me, because I have still in this province three sons, and I am very anxious for their future. When I see the central school up here dismissed at noon, and see the large number of boys coming out there I stand and pause, and think what they are going to do. Where are they going to get work ? These are questions that frighten me. They cannot compete with Chinese and live respectably. Some provision must be made for them, and if the Chinese and Japanese are allowed in this country, these boys will be driven out of their own country and have to seek a living on the other side. It is not so that those boys do not wish to get employment. At the Automatic Can Factory I believe it was found that cans had been punctured, or at least -one of the largest canneries where the Chinese and Japanese had been dismissed, and they sent a steamer to Vancouver, and in a very short time they found boys and girls enough to operate the Automatic Canning Company. Well, now, I cannot answer ; if it was the Automatic Canning Factory, they preferred to have white boys and girls. You will understand the company manufactures all kinds of improved cans, and they found their cans were being tampered with. I was in Steveston at the time and saw the steamer there landing the boys and girls, a fine looking lot of young people, all willing to work. I think that disposes of the argument that boys are not willing to work. If you go down street in the morning you will find boys going to the different factories and asking for employment. No, sir, they are not all able to find employment because of the presence of the Chinese and Japanese. That is true that nearly all the industries are requiring men in summer and there is not so much work in the winter. Men are employed in th canneries for a short time in the summer, and are out of employment there in the winter. m 160 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Alexander Cumyou, a Chinamen born in Canada, residing in Vancouver, said : The wages for Chinese and Japanese are higher on the American side than here, from 25 to 50 per cent. I do not know about the Japanese, but about the Chinese I do. I visit the lower parts of the lower mainland in the capacity of an interpreter in connection with the provincial revenue tax. John Ibbottson, fisherman, of Vancouver, said : My family wish to go to work in the canneries. They were told they could make from $1 to $1.50 a day. My wife and three children were there for 96 days. They earned for 96 days $74 for the four of them. One was thirteen years old, another seventeen, another twenty-two. My wife is about sixty-three. The youngest was a boy, the other two were girls. They were working by the day or by the hour. They were to get from ten to twelve and a-half cents an hour, and what I am trying to tell the Commissioners is that they gave them so little work that in 96 days they only earned $74. They were just held as a reserve. When I was complaining they said there would be more fish by and by, but when the fish did commence to run more Chinese were sent for to town The white people only got work when there was more than the Chinese could do. They had not been out working in the canneries before. My notion is that to limit the licenses and give them only to people who are real settlers. I would give the license to the heads of families in preference, and that would to a great extent keep the Japanese out. I was employed at a cannery last year as assistant net man. All I got was $40 a month. A first-class net man is worth, I think, about $100 a month. Robert T. Burtwell, Dominion Fishery Guardian, Vancouver, was asked : Q. Do you know of any cases where Chinese were forced to go back when they had left ?—A. Yes. I was working at the English Bay Cannery three seasons ago. Sing Soong and King Foong were the contractors for putting up the salmon. The season was a very poor one. The men employed by the contractors were indebted to the contractors. Some of them had left the employ of the cannery, and had started a little place or camp adjoining the cannery, to do something for themselves. The manager of the cannery came to me and said : ' Mr. Burtwell, I do not know what we will do with these Chinese \ they want to sneak away to town ; they are indebted to Sing Soong and King Foong; I want to stop them from going; can you hit on some scheme to stop them and get us out of the hole ?' After a little while he said : ' You can go as if you are a policeman and get them to return.' I said : -1 am not a constable and have no authority to act as an officer of the law ; I do not wish to get myself in trouble, but I will try to run a bluff on them.' I went to a trunk of my own, found a document with seals on it; I put that in my pocket; I ■ went to the cannery and saw Sing Soong and King Foong and Mr. Crane ; they told me the Chinese wanted to go to town ; they were indebted to the contractor. I said : \ You fellows want to break your contract.' They said : ' No, but the Chinamen that left want to.' I went to the contractor that left, and asked them why they wanted to break their contract; they said they did not want to break their contract. Sing Soong says we owe him money, but we do not; he treated us very mean because we were not catching much fish ; he gives us only one meal a day and a little rice; we want to go to Vancouver and get work there. They told me they were hungry. I told them they had better stay on the contract. I succeeded in getting the Chinamen back and kept them there until they finished up the contract. I was paid for my services. The Chinese explained to me that Sing Soong made certain advances to them, and as the season was bad he was losing money, and he charged them too much for their food. So they should not incur any more indebetedness, he limited the amount of food they should get to one meal a day. If he had furnished them with three meals a day, as he had contracted to do, it would have increased the indebtedness. I know the practicel part of it myself ; I knew for a fact! they had only one meal a day. I went to Sing Soong and insisted on him giving them more food. It was practically nothing more or less than a system of slavery. jjgn.n« #??B| I was not a British subject nor fishery guardian at this time. In a sense I was a British subject; I was born in the United States, taken as a baby to the old country resided there till I was fourteen years of age, and then came to Canada; but as I was born in the States that made me an American citizen. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 161 Q. I suppose your suggestion is, the Chinese employed there were not free ?—A. They thought they were, but the boss put up a job on them, compelled them to remain there to do,their work. Q. You helped that 1—A. Yes. Q. You say they had only one meal a day; how long did that continue ?—A.—For two weeks prior to my leaving the cannery. Q. And you helped to keep them at the cannery ?—A. Yes; and they used to get the tail pieces of the fish from the cannery. Q. They were living on one meal a day and you helped to keep them there ?—A. Yes. Q. What did you do with the parchment paper or deed %—A. I pretended it was an official paper. Q. And you terrorized these Chinese and kept them there-1—A I did not terrorize them, but when they saw a paper with me with a seal on it they thought they had to return to work. AMERICAN EVIDENCE. Everell B. Deming, manager Pacific American Fishing Co., Fairhaven, Wash., stated : This cannery was established in 1899. We employ Chinese. In the working season we employ 2,500 hands, (inside the canneries 1,000) and of these about 300 are Chinese, and a few Japanese. The Chinese do all the canning except the filling under contract through boss Chinese. The filling is done by whites entirely, boys, girls and women. The proportion of Chinese labour employed by us is about one-fifth. This company has always employed them. They come from Portland and return at close of season. Chinese average about $45 a month and board for a season of six months. All the- canneries on the Sound employ Chinese for the same purposes and limited to the work mentioned. We catch our fish in traps, and work is done by whites. In a rush season we employ Japanese. Japanese are unsatisfactory. We would not think of employing them as Chinese are. I prefer white labour at higher price to Japanese. Can get about as much work out of Japanese as out of whites. White labour is paid from 20 to 25 cents per hour. It is all hurry up work, no regular hours. Chinese are employed because they are skilled, and will do work white men won't do ; for instance, soldering cans, a very tedious job. Chinese don't strike; you can always count on them. I would pay them more than white men for same work. Chinese are not cheap labourers. I like CJhinese because they stay right with their work and do it right. We get a great many of the same Chinese every year. A good contractor keeps the same gang right along. We have this year all the best Chinese we had last year. Japanese are very quarrelsome. They get drunk. They don't mix with the Chinese or whites. Won't be in the same house with Chinese. Would not care to run a cannery without Chinese. Our output last year was 150,000 cases ; total capacity from. 300 to 400,000-cases. The regular day's work lasts twelve hours, but for short periods, men work as long as fourteen hours. We did not make our own cans this year; bought them from can factories. When a cannery is running full capacity would have from 1,000 to 1,200 hands inside during the run of fish. We are putting in two filling machines this year. Never packed with fillers before. Our market is in the United States. Have not shipped to England. We had a fairly good run in 1899 ; put up 219,000 cases, of which 130,000 cases were sockeyes. .Capacity of our traps about 6,300 fish per diem. We make a contract with a Chinese boss for so much per case. Under that contract he furnishes us so many skilled Chinese: we furnish the rest and charge their wages up against the boss Chinaman's contract. We get some fish from gill nets and seines. We could not depend upon that source. Average price for gill net and seine fish, sockeyes 25 cents ; year before last was 17 cents, and probably the fisherman got the worst of it. Trap 17 to 17^ cents. There was no contract last year between canners and. 54—11 fish brought 162 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION V H 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 fishermen. We paid market price from day to day. Canners here to some extent supply fishermen with gear, probably half and half. This year a big run is expected and the contract price for fish is 15 cents. If we had to depend upon gill nets the plant would be closed up. Large number of men are employed in connection with traps, getting out piles and steamboating. We have twelve steamers and we use 12,000 piles each year. We pay trap fishermen by the month. Net men work on shares. Trap fish are as a rule cheaper than net fish. Last year the trap fish were higher. Couldn't get enough' fish on Puget Sound with nets and seines only. Conditions are different to the Fraser River. With traps we can store fish for two or three days and this helps to give cannery hands steady work. With gill men only we have to have five times as many steamers for towing around, &c. Under the trap system less fish are destroyed than by gills and seines. We don't dump any fish from the traps if choked up, but let them go. There are sixteen canneries on the Puget Sound. Total capacity in 1899 was 885,000 cases. Just as many canneries then as now. Capacities have been increased and with a good run 1,000,000 could be put up. The number of Chinamen employed by us is about the average in proportion to capacity. The Alaska Co. have a smaller proportion because they fill entirely with machines. Chinamen's earnings represent one-fifth of the cost of the pack. Our fishermen we employ in the net field. Work commenced February 1, so they got steady work until 1st of following January, for they have to bring in and repair nets after close of season. They average $50 per month. The Report of the United States Fishery Commissioner, Mr. Wilcox, has very complete statistics, and covers Alaska as well as Puget Sound. The State Commissioner's report is not so full. There is great antipathy to Japanese here. Until this plant was put in the anti-Chinese feeling was very strong. As this plant could not be operated without Chinese the feeling is not now so strong. The feeling remains very strong against the Japanese. It is realized now that Chinese are not cheap labour; they are skilled and don't have to work for little money. Last year we imported 300 tons of coal from British Columbia, and had hard work to get anyone to unload it, though we offered 50 cents an hour. One or two white men came down but refused on the ground that the work was too dirty. Finally we secured Chinese at 40 cents an hour. When they learned that 50 cents had been offered for the job, they struck for a higher rate. I don't know if many Chinese came in from British Columbia; suppose some do. Our men are nearly all old men ; don't see any young men now; youngest between 35 and 40 years old. We find a difficulty in getting white boys and girls. We have had trouble to get white men, but not this year. There are plenty of men now, but they are of a class that will not work steadily. It is almost impossible to get a girl servant either in Fairhaven or Whatcom. If whites had been trained, could have done as good work in the canneries as the Chinese. The whites employed around canneries are not steady and cannot be relied on. Will strike when they have you where the hair is short. They would take us at a disadvantage when the fish were running fast. We could not deal with nlechanics through their organizations. You can make a contract, but they wont live up to it. Can't make contracts with them as an organization, because you can't make them binding. The cannery business, as far as this country is concerned, has been a money maker, on paper, but it has all gone into betterment. The same thing applies to nearly every other industry on the Sound. Business has been profitable, but all the money made has gone back into plant. The cost of fish in traps depends entirely upon the run. Last year trap fish averaged 75 cents a piece. As a rule the traps belong to the cannery companies ; that is, they are controlled by the companies. The laws of the state permit a man to own three traps. The main difficulty of having to depend on whites entirely is the fear of their demanding exorbitant wages just when the run is on. There is no question of being able to get just as skilled whites as Chinese, if the whites would take up the work. There is no difference in having work done here and in Chicago. I have been handling canned goods for twenty years. I have concerns in the east. What is saving them there will ultimately save us here—machinery. For instance, in canning corn, boys and girls do all the labour necessary. We are getting some machines here which will make us inde- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 163 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 pendent of any particular class of labour. None of the eastern canning industries fluctuate as the salmon fishing industry does. If there had been no Chinese the salmon canning business would not have been conducted on so big a scale. With big plants like this we must run to fullest capacity to earn interest. Our pay-roll to-day averages about $15,000 per month, and we are not earning anything, just getting ready, and the same thing after the season of about sixty days. We don't give a rap for the fall salmon. We must make our money out of the sockeyes. The average cost of putting in a trap is $5,000. Mr. Deming subsequently stated to the Commissioners, whilst showing them over the cannery, that the labelling machine would save the labour of twenty men; the box- nailing machine saved $1,000 on 200,000 boxes, and that the boxes were now made up at a cost of ten cents apiece. H. F. Fortman, president of the Alaska Packers' Association, San Francisco, said: The total output of Alaska last year was 1,534,745 cases, of which between 750,000 and 800,000 were exported. Great Britain took about 600,000 of them. It would be impossible to run the Alaska fisheries without Mongolian labour. About 5,000 Asiatics are engaged in the fisheries of Alaska, 500 of whom are Japanese. We get them from San Francisco and Seattle. Ten to fifteen per cent of labour inside the canneries is white. We employed 1,581 white men fishing last year for Alaska canneries. We had 1,086 Indians and 2,162 Chinese. Traps, gill-nets and seines do most of the fishing. Japanese are not employed as fishermen. Fishermen are hired for the season. We pay them so much per fish. They work at loading and discharging vessels as well, and in six or seven months they often make $400. Transportation and board up and down are free. We catch about 85 per cent of our fish by gill nets and seines in Alaska. We use all the canning machinery we can get, and control some patents that other* canners cannot use. We could not run our canneries at present without Chinese, although we use every labour-saving device at our work. British Columbia is our chief competitor. They have a fine class of goods and are well established in the trade. Chinese are the skilled labourers of the canneries. They understand it, and lay out to do their work well. We have no trouble with Chinese contractors. If a Chinaman gets sick there is another to take his place. It is not the same with White men. The gang is only as strong as the weakest link. With whites, if one man quits, the whole cannery is at a standstill. We send to England and the British Colonies about 75 per cent of our Puget Sound pack. We always did so. * The first cannery operated on the Sound was in 1891. In 1893 a second cannery was built by another Fraser River canner. In 1894 another cannery was built. None were erected in 1895. Fourteen were built in 1896 and 1897, and two since then. The capacity of the Sound canneries is about 40,000 cases per day, and they could put up 50,000. For sockeyes salmon traps are used nearly altogether. There are a few gill nets and seines used. I never saw Japanese fish on Puget Sound. A man must be an American citizen, and a continuous resident of the States for one year before he can get a fishing license. We have now a reasonable supply, but not an over-supply, of Chinese. Japanese would not be employed if we had sufficient Chinese. So far they are engaged by the Chinese. We pay Chinese as much for labour now as we did before we installed labour-saving machinery, so that the profits on machinery are distributed amongst the Chinese. We guarantee the Chinese contractor so many cases for the season. We guarantee him about $160 per man for the season. They get that amount absolutely. We furnish them with transportation. They board themselves. Wages on Fraser River and Puget Sound are practically the same. It is a longer season on the Sound. Profits on fish sold in England are about the same as in the home market. The market is not unlimited, it is fixed. We have a better market than British Columbia. We have the whole United States. After shipping to England we have the home market to fall back on. The English market for us is the more important of the two and more profitable, principally on account of the large quantities purchased at once. Chinese do not tend to keep wages of white men down. They obtain all they can get. I would favour restriction of Chinese; I would not have unlimited immigration. Your present law is all right, that is a tax of $100 on each Chinaman. 54—11 \ 164 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Chee Foo, Chinese merchant, Portland, Oregon, said: I have been a contractor with the Alaska Packers' Association for ten years. About 200 Chinamen go from here to Alaska, and the balance, 2,500 or 3,000, go from San Francisco to Alaska. Wages have increased since the Exclusion Act. It is hard to get 20. men now where I used to get 400, though I pay half more now. There are not half as many Chinese here now as ten years ago. Some go to China, some are old men, some die, ,&c. There used to be thirty canneries on the Columbia River, now there are only five or six. Cold storage has done away with a great deal of canning ; therefore not so many Chinese are wanted on the Columbia River. I don't know of any Chinese who havlS come over here from Canada. At the canneries I am glad to employ all who come and are willing to work. The men who solder get $300 for the season, the butchers about $320, and other labour is about $280 and board for the season ; for mending cans the pay is less, about $250 for the season. I paid $25,000 advances last year, which cannery owners guaranteed. The Alaska packers advance $85,000 for so many men. I take the contract to supply the men. I pay Japanese $1 a day in the cannery. There are a good many Japanese in Seattle. They can be got cheap ; I have got 120 going into the cannery this year at half price. I figure that 75 men are required for 1,000 cases per day. In the season I employ all the white men I can get at 15 cents per hour; boys and girls get 10 cents an hour. Stout men get 20 cents per hour. The Chinese never strike. We supply the company with 400 men to fill all positions. The filling machines save five men per thousand cases. Men will be scarce in Alaska. I wanted 100 and only got 30. Walter Honeyman, of Portland, Oregon, said: My business is mainly in fishery supplies. The number of Chinese are lessening on the Columbia River now owing to the number of canneries being lessened. There is not one half the number of Chinese employed that there were five or ten years ago. The output has been reduced; the cause, want of protection to the fish. I do not think there are over 500 or 600 of them engaged on the Columbia. We have no Chinese left in town here now, and they are swarming in town in the winter. I have seen only once or twice in twenty years that there was not sufficient labour in the canneries to handle the bluebacks. There were thirty canneries here twenty years ago. Now a great many of the large salmon are shipped by the cold storage men. They do not ship bluebacks or anything less than 25 pounds. We can find a. good market at our own doors for all the salmon we can catch. We have to refuse a great many orders for nets when it comes to this time of the year. We cannot get Chinese now. Hand-made nets are made here. The machines for making nets seem to be controlled by the manufacturers. No machine-made nets are made here. The bulk of them, I should say three-fourths used outside of the Columbia River, are machine-made nets. They fish here with seines, traps and wheels, not many gill nets. No weekly close season. SUMMARY. The canning process is almost entirely in the hands of the Chinese. Cannery owners contract for the work with a Chinese boss, who is usually backed by a firm of Chinese merchants. The contractor is required to supply all the labour necessary to operate the cannery to its full capacity at the height of the season. Failing to do this the contract usually provides that the owners may employ whom they please to perform the work, and charge this labour to the account of the contractor. With the exception of white foremen, engineers, and a few skilled men occupying responsible positions, the contract covers all the work of the cannery in preparing the fish as they come from the fishing boat fp the finished case of labelled tins ready for the market. The contractor in a h/gavy run engages all the Indian women and youths as well as all the white youths available. It was estimated that of the cost of the pack of 1897—a large run seventeen per cent was paid to the Chinese contractors, and that five per cent of this percentage would be paid by them to labour other than Chinese; that 27 per cent of the cost of that pack was for materials manufactured elsewhere than in British Columbia, and ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 165 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 that 56 per cent represented the amount left for distribution in the province, exclusive of imported materials and Chinese labour. Without an exception the canners stated that the industry at the present time and under existing conditions could not be carried on successfully without the aid of Chinese; that the Chinese are experts and are fully adapted for this work. All the available labour-saving machinery known to the trade is in general use by the canners and has reduced the Chinese labour by more than one half, but they state that its introduction has not lessened the cost per case for Chinese labour. The Chinese are reliable and industrious, and are willing to work long hours when the fish are in supply. They live in houses in connection with the canneries, unsuitable for whites, and live cheaply. By reference to Exhibit 52 ante, it will hie seen that although a large number of Chinamen may be engaged in the cannery during the busy season,—that is July and August, and less than one-third that number for April, May, June and September, and although their wages are comparatively high, for the time they do work, yet they do not work more than half the time; and measuring their employment in years, their total number would be represented by comparatively few. For instance at one cannery in 1897 where from 45 to 159 Chinese were employed from April to September, their total time only equals the employment of 32 men for one year, and their earnings per day of ten hours is $1.48, or equal to $38.54 per month of 26 days. In 1898 where from 9 to 116 men were emploped, it only equalled 14 men for a year, at $1.44 per day or $37.58 per month. In 1899 where from 4 to 146 men were emploped, their time equalled 14 men for a year at $1.51 per day or $39.39 per month. In 1900 where from 12 men to 85 were employed, it equalled about 9 men for a year, at $1.54 per day or $40.15 per month. In the same cannery during those four years from 19 to 21 white men were employed at an average of $78.35 a month, and at an average of over five months each year. Board herein is included at $12 per month. Their wages run from $40 to $100 per month. For these years the Chinese labour varied from 32 to 66 cents, average 48 cents per case. White men's labour varied from 211 to $1,321 averaging 68 cents per case, exclusive of wages on steamers, which varies from 6^ to 41 cents and averaged 21^ cents a case. The contract price with contractors is practically the same in the different districts of British Columbia, and in American territory, excepting in Puget Sound, where, it is stated by one Canadian canner, that owing to the length of the season the cost is about 20 per cent less. A Chinese contractor at Victoria puts it at 5 cents a case less on the American side. A contractor at Portland stated that since the Exclusion Act wages of Chinese have increased. The Alaska canneries are supplied partly with native and white labour, and with Chinese sent there from San Francisco and Portland. On Puget Sound the ''Chinese are obtained chiefly from Portland. They have also American Indians, and a large number of whites are employed there in filling cans. Two-thirds of the Puget Sound canneries are located in or near by towns or villages, from which they can draw a good supply of white labour. The northern canneries of British Columbia obtain a larger amount of Indian labour. Their supply of Chinese is principally from Victoria. There is said to be very little land fit for agricultural development along the streams where the canneries there are located. It is evident, therefore, that the supply of labour must continue for some time to migrate there. In the Fraser River district one cannery is situated about two miles from Vancouver city, six are within the city of New Westminster, three are situated within two and a half or three miles below and across the river from New Westminster. The remaining thirty-eight canneries are scattered along the river banks at a distance of from seven to twelve miles from these cities. Steveston is a village almost wholly made up of people directly engaged in fishing and canning, and is practically deserted when the fishing is over. A large number of canneries are there, and it is regarded as a fishing centre. A fine agricultural country is in the neighbourhood of many of those thirty-eight canneries, 166 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 but it is generally held in large holdings. The harvesting season is on invariably at the time when the rush of salmon is expected, and this makes a demand for labour that might otherwise be available for the canneries. It is evident, therefore, that with the exception of those canneries located near or within the towns, the labour required must migrate to them, and if white people were employed instead of the Chinese this would necessitate the provision of suitable accommodation ateonsiderable expense on the part of canneries. It was also represented that the premises would be only occupied for a short time, and not fully, except in heavy runs. On the one hand it was suggested that the gradual displacement of Chinese labour by white labour might increase the cost of production. On the other hand, this contention was met by the proposal that the number of fishing licenses be reduced, so that those engaged in fishing, by reason of larger individual catches, might be able to sell their fish for less, and thus relieve the canner of the possible increased cost entailed by the employment of white labour in the cannery. The number of hands required in the canneries,—at least five thousand—the location of the canneries, the uncertainty of the run and therefore of the length of time employment can be given, and the fact that the Chinese alone are trained in the canning process, present conditions which preclude any sudden change from Chinese to exclusively white labour. From the foregoing it will be seen that:— I. The Chinese by reason of their presence have been utilized and become experts in the cannery business. Their employment simplifies and to a certain extent makes easy the work of the employer so far as the employment of labour is concerned. The work is done by contract through a boss Chinaman at so much a case. The responsibility for labour then rests with him. He employs Chinese chiefly. Indian women are largely employed for cleaning the fish, and white men and boys are employed when the work cannot be overtaken by the regular gang. Japanese also of late are employed in the canneries to some extent. II. Until recently cans were made almost exclusively by Chinese labour, and although an automatic can factory run exclusively by white labour has been established at New Westminster with a capacity to meet the requirements of the entire trade on the Fraser River, and at a price as cheap if not cheaper than those made by the Chinese, yet the Chinese are still employed to a considerable extent in making cans, for the reason that this gives them a longer employment, and the employer is then assured of having them ready when the fishing season opens. III. The introduction of machinery and its improvement from, time to time has greatly lessened the number of Chinese required. IV. There is a sufficient number of Chinese in the Province now to meet present requirements, and supply the demand for years to come, although in an emergency occasioned by an unusually heavy run difficulty is sometimes found in getting an immediate supply. V. Opinion is divided among the cannerymen as to the expediency of prohibiting further immigration. Two were in favour of no restriction whatever and thought that something in the nature of coolie labour, or at all events cheap labour, necessary. One declined to express an opinion, and one thought the present restriction sufficient. Two favoured further restriction? and one exclusion, and all agreed that the Chinese labourer did not make a desirable citizen and ought not to have the franchise. VI. Chinese labour being always available, easily handled and efficient and cheap, is perferred to other which is less expert from want of practice, and not so cheap. VII. Cheap labour and the large profits formerly made, induced so many to engage in the business that it is now as all admit, crowded if not overdone, which, together with competition from the Sound, but principally from Alaska, has cut down the price and reduced the profits. VIII. Owing to the number of Japanese engaged in fishing there has been over crowding on the Fraser, with the result that both the canneries and fishermen have suf- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION Tffl SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 fered, the individual catch being less and the price per fish to the cannerS increased, and •their profits thereby diminished. IX. Had there been no Chinese in the country it is probable that the whites and Indians would have been trained to the business, and would have furnished a sufficient supply, but the almost exclusive employment of Chinese through their boss contractor, who naturally employs his own countrymen where available, has practically shut the door against whites and Indians and prevented them from learning the business. The exclusion of further Chinese is not likely to seriously affect this industry, for: (a.) There are sufficient Chinese already in the province to meet the demand for years to come, having regard to the views generally expressed by witnesses as to a maximum development having been reached, and the possible depletion of supply and the number of Chinese now in the province. (b.) The change will be so gradual as to be all but imperceptible, and may be met by the employment of whites and Indians. (c.) On the Sound where the Exclusion Act has been in force for many years and the number of Chinese has decreased in the last decade, it has not retarded the development of this industry, but on the contrary it has received its chief expansion during this period, many millions have been invested therein within the last three or four years, and this although Chinese are employed both on the Sound and in Alaska, as they are in British Columbia. There is nothing disclosed in the evidence as it affects this industry which renders it inexpedient, if otherwise desirable, to exclude the further immigration of Chinese into the Dominion. CHAPTER XVI.—DOMESTIC SERVANTS. White domestic servants are very hard to obtain in British Columbia, and the Chinese largely fill these positions. In Victoria there are employed as cooks and domestic servants, 530; in Vancouver, 262; in New Westminster, 65, and in Nanaimo, 42. They are also employed almost exclusively in the lumber camps, on steamboats, and in the various towns and villages, and to a certain extent on the farm as cooks. For instance, in Kamloops there are 30 employed and in Rossland 120. In short, they are employed to a greater or lesser extent as cooks and domestics throughout the province, except in the towns of Phoenix and Sandon, where they are not employed and not permitted to come. The wages range from $10 to $30 per month in private families, and from $25 to $45, and in some cases even higher, in hotels. Their efficiency it is said largely depends upon their instruction when first engaged. It is difficult to get them to change or adopt new ways. Their service differs from that of the ordinary white servant girl in this: that in addition to doing all kinds of housework they frequently cut the wood, look after the garden, and do general choring about the place, such as is generally done by a man servant, and this feature of their service accounts for the fact of their employment in many cases. The wages given above have application where they have received a certain amount of instruction. On their first arrival many work for even less. While, as among whites, there are good, bad and indifferent, yet the weight of evidence indicates that they give general satisfaction, and many of them are exceptionally good servants. We think it may be said that the larger number are found to be honest, obedient, diligent and sober. The care of children, however, is seldom entrusted to them. Probably the strongest certificate of character they received was from Major Dupont, of Victoria, who said : I find them most faithful and most obedient. They are just as zealous to serve us and make us comfortable as on the first day I employed them. It is most unwarrantable to say they are not considerate and respectful to white women. I find them quite cleanly. There is lots to be said about his unsanitary condition in his own quarters. Chinese quarters with me are as tidy as bachelors'. I don't think nHVBBBS 168 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 they crowd outf white girls. Any white girl camget a situation at from $15 to $20 a month. I never lock a door in my house. I never knew a Chinaman who took my wines or liquours. I have been gone eighteen months at a time, and I would be most ungrateful if I did not bear testimony to their honesty, zeal and capacity as servants. I have had one for 24* years and one for ten years. Samuel M. Robins, general manager of the New Vancouver Coal Company, Nanaimo, said : I never employ Chinese as domestic servants. I have heard there is a difficulty to get white girls, but I have not experienced any. There is difficulty by certain persons and no difficulty whatever by others. It is a difficulty with the mistresses. I think the employment of Chinese as domestics more injurious than their employment in any other calling. Clive Phillipps-Wolley, of Victoria, who lived in China for many years, says : You cannot get the same deference from a Chinese servant to a white woman that a white servant will give, but a Chinese is always deferential to men. Q. You know from observation of cases where the ladies of the house would not part with a Chinese on any account 1—A. I believe there are cases of the kind. Q. They bear a character for honesty?—A. I do not know of them bearing that character. I know of a Chinese servant who was in one employment for many years, and was trusted by his employers, and was found to have been a persistent thief during all the years he was in the service. He was so clever a thief it was hard to discover. He could cover up his tracks better by far than any white man I ever heard of, or read of. You want me to say whether Chinese rema;n a long time in one employment; the Chinese I know of the longest in one employment was one of the biggest thieves I have ever known or heard of in my life. George Allen Kirk, Manufacturer, of Victoria, who came to the Province in 1885, said : jfs'Hj^Q.. Would it be possible if there were no Chinese cooks here to get cooking done in the private houses of the city 1—A. Certainly not at present. Q. Is the Chinese a good or bad servant ?—A. I think he is a good servant. I have found if you give them decent rooms to sleep in they are cleanly. If I could get white people as good I would take them. • Daniel McFadyen, of Vancouver, contractor and carpenter, said : In connection with household help, we kept a lodging house in this town and we kept Chinese help from time to time. In regard to their being a desirable help, they are not. They must be taught first, and then they get so independent they will not do the work. I found them unsatisfactory. We gave from $5 to $10 a month. Then they want more and try to run things. I have seen some good servants. Servant girls are rather scarce, but I think more could be employed than at present. I say if servant girls had been encouraged to come to the country there would be a great many more of them than there are. A $10 Chinaman is not equal to a white girl. There are girls who would come from Nova Scotia. I am from there. i«|f Tim Kee, Chinese Tailor and employment agent, of Victoria, said : Q. Do you think white people could get along here in business without the Chinese ; how would white men get along without any Chinese in Victoria ?—A. They would get along all right. Q. How would they cook ?—A. They would get other cooks, white cooks. Suppose there were no Chinese here, white people would do all the cooking and washing. Lee Cheeog, Chinese merchant, president of the Chinese Board of Trade of Victoria, says : Q. Do you think we would have no servants at all if there were no Chinese immigration ?—A. Certainly. If you had no Chinese here you would have white servants. Q. How do our people in eastern Canada, in Manitoba and other places, get along where there are no Chinese ?—A. Your people would have servants to look after the houses. Some few years ago our people were not here and you had servants then and you could have the same now. John W. Taylor, barrister-at-law, of Victoria, accounts for the difficulty of getting cooks by the presence of Chinese. L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 169 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Henry Croft, of Victoria, engaged in the lumber and mining industries, said : Q. Have you had any experience with Chinese as cooks ?—A. I have had them in the house. Q. Are they good or poor cooks %—A. It depends on their training. Some of them I know are very bad cooks. I have had three Chinese cooks in one day and discharged the whole of them. Q. Have you had other Chinese cooks that were more satisfactory 1—A. Yes, some stayed a little while. I would sooner have a white cook in a house myself because I have been used to a white cook.* Q. Can you get women in this country for domestic service ?—A. You can get them but they are not at all plentiful. Q. Then you have to pay them a very high wage 1—A. Oh, not at all. You pay them a reasonable wage and a white girl will stay with you for a long time and give you no trouble. It is'hard to get a good white servant at certain times. Edward Musgrave of Cowichan, Vancouver Island, said: I don't see where the supply of domestic servants is to come from except the Chinese. I have never found a servant equal to the Chinese. They will do as much as three English servants. Dr. O. Meredith Jones, of Victoria, says : I have heard it said people could not get on without Chinese domestics. I suppose people would be put to a little inconvenience at first. In the course of time you could get the same comfort from white servants as Chinese give. It would be difficult at first. There has been no organized effort of getting white girls. I think if there was an organized effort to bring girls out there would be very little difficulty, for they could be got from eastern Canada. I should say England would be the best place. There are lots of women willing to go into domestic service. The girls here are not inclined to go into service. They prefer other positions for half the wages. They could get employment if they wished. The majority of white girls here are employed as nurse maids, and people have difficulty in getting girls as nurse maids. People won't have Chinese attend to children. Where they have no nurse maids the Chinamen does the housework and the lady of the house looks after the children. Q. Is that conducive at all to home life ?—A. No, I think not, but the fault in many cases lies with the employers. If they were to take the same interest in white girls as they do in the Chinese, and put the girls through a course of training in cooking, matters would be improved greatly, or girls could go to some cooking school, and it would be a very good thing for them if they did know how to cook. If they were good cooks it would tend to make a good many homes happier. A good cook is very much sought after. They don't like to go into any kind of work the Chinese do. They think it degrading. The Rev. ElMot S. Rowe, Methodist Minister of Victoria, said : The problem of domestic service is not confined to this province, but the presence of the Chinese may aggravate the conditions here; I think better wages are paid here for domestic service than in places with which I am familiar; but those people who have Chinese servants have various opinions as to their work and desirability. I cannot say whether the majority of opinion is that they are very desirable as domestic servants. I have had no experience in that line here ; but the domestic servant problem will exist as long as the conditions affecting domestic labour are retained. I heard two medical gentlemen discussing the question this afternoon, and the views they expressed were entirely in accord with my own views. There was a time when medical nursing was looked upon as menial; but schools were established in connection with our various hospitals for the training of nurses, and now the ranks of the medical nursing are filled with the finest of our young women. The question of work done in the kitchen and of work done in a hospital has a more intimate connection than many would suppose; it is just as honourable to keep a man out of the doctor's hands by cooking food properly, as it is to care for him after he has got sick. Probably there would be less trouble in domestic service if such methods were adopted in domestic economy as have been adopted in the study of medical nursing. It would be well if there were established some institutions, as I believe have been established in some parts of the United States, where degrees or J 170 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION do of of 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 certificates of efficiency would be granted to students, when the degrees of mistress of domestic science will be looked upon with as much pride as a degree from our schools where sick nurses are trained. Then girls will readily enter into domestic service in place of looking after situations in shops and offices ; there will be institutions established for instruction in cookery and other domestic work, and the degree of mistress of domestic science will be as much prized as that certifying to efficiency in sick nursing. To my view that will be the solution of the domestic service question; then the rush for positions in shops and offices will be less than it is now, and the home and home life will be vastly improved. The presence of the Chinese ckomestic creates difficulty. My experience in reference to getting employment here for people anxious and willing to work is very different from other places I have been in. I have not been called upon to seek employment for a girl here. I used to conduct a small employment bureau in some of the places I was in. Under the Utopian conditions I have suggested I think work could be obtained in the near future, but I think it might be difficult to obtain employment now. Alexander G. McCandless, of Victoria, clothier, said: In regard to domestic servants, I think we can get along first rate even if there wasn't a single Chinaman in the country. It is a mere fact of the Chinese being here that prevents white girls wanting to occupy those positions. I believe I could go east and could get good white girls to come here and work for $15 and $20 a month in domestic service were there no Chinese here; and with no Chinese here, were white girls offered the same wages as they now pay to Chinamen, there would not be the least difficulty in getting all the domestic servants we may require. I hold strong views on this question, as I have had reason to consider it, but I not wish to weary the Commission by presenting them at length. A. R. Milne, C.B., Collector of Customs at Victoria, said: I think the supply Chinese domestics is equal to the demand. Domestic servants are always certain employment. Good mistresses are always able to get good domestic servants, white girls I mean. With a little thoughtf ulness on the part of employers there would be enough of white domestic servants to fill all the demands. I think some ladies prefer to have Chinese as domestic servants, I suppose because they have got into their ways and have learned to do the work. They all come from the coolie class. Many of them I find are fairly intelligent, and they adhere strictly to their contracts. Mistresses are not at all considerate of the feelings, either physically or otherwise, of girls who go into domestic service. The girls are driven to take other work because of the long hours and incon- siderations on the part of their employers. Dr. Robert E. McKechnie, of Nanaimo, said : I have two Chinamen in the house. One is moderately good and the other is poor. They demand fairly high wages. I employ them because of the impossibility of getting suitable white help. I think it is more difficult in Nanaimo than in Victoria,.because you may say we are quite a distance from the centre. We have to obtain white domestics from Victoria, Vancouver and New Westminster, and some efforts have been made to obtain that help as far east as Montreal. Servants did not like to leave large cities to come to a coal mining town. The men of this town earn fairly good wages, and as soon as they are able to give their children a good education they do not care for their girls going out to domestic service. A large proportion of the girls under eighteen and nineteen are fitting themselves for better positions than domestic service, because of the Chinese being employed in that service. Very few girls are available from the white population here. It is very difficult to get white girls as domestic servants. I think there is a reason for it; very few white families come to the country, and girls do not care to go far from home or from the centres in the cities, and between the two we fall. There is a difficulty. The Chinese fill the gap to a certain extent, but we would be better with white people, and have the Chinese out of service altogether. John Mathews, mine manager, Cumberland, said : We have Chinese as domestic servants here. There are no girls to get a supply from. There are few, if any, girls in domestic service here. The miners are quite able to keep their daughters without going out to domestic service. Hotels have Chinese and Japanese, principally Chinese. I ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 171 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 know of only one girl employed here. Wages for,a girl from fourteen to sixteen years of age is $12 to $15 a month usually. Benjamin T. Rogers, manager of the Sugar Refinery, Vancouver, says : I think Chinese domestic servants are a perfect godsend to the country. I have had women cooks, much to my sorrow. I have two Chinese servants, and two white servants. I would not have white girls to take the place of Chinese, if they worked for nothing, if they wanted to work. The Chinese does not waste anything and the white cook will waste more than his salary is worth in a month. I would not favour exclusion because we need them as cooks. I pay one Chinese cook $37 a month. I think there are enough Chinese in the province to-day for domestic purposes. Richard Marpole, superintendent of the Western Division of the Canadian Pacific Railway, Vancouver, says : I find Chinese far ahead of any servants I have had. I pay $20 a month for girls as cooks. I am trying to get them now at that rate. I am satisfied with what I have. Naturally you would prefer to have a white girl cook when you have to pay a Chinaman from $25 to $35 a month, but you cannot get white girls who will stay long with you. I tried to get girls from the east, but they turned out to be very much like some of the white labourers coming out here ; they took advantage of us. We employ Chinese cooks on the Kootenay boats, for a good reason, we cannot get white cooks. These are the only places where we employ them. I failed to get servants from the east, and there are others who have failed in the same way. I will never close the door against getting good servants here. If they are scarce in Toronto how can we get them here ? I think probably the distance they have to come and the cost of coming here, three thousand miles, has something to do with the difficulty of getting white girls for domestic service. Johannus Buntzen, manager of the British Columbia Electric Railway Co., Vancouver, says : As to Chinese domestic servants I found one or two very good. Bernard McDonald, manager of the British America Corporation and the LeRoy group, Rossland, says: We employ one Chinese as janitor in Rossland. We have a boarding house. The cooks employed there are whites, both cooks and waiters. I think Chinese necessary as domestic servants. My own personal experience is, they are more reliable as domestics and the consensus of opinion here among my acquaintances is that they are almost indispensible. It would appear white girls cannot be got. I know of Chinese being sent to Ontario to take domestic service there. In some cases it would keep families out, and other cases where families would come in, they would do their own service. There is a sufficient number of Chinese to give all the servants that are required. $20 to $30 a month are paid to Chinese. Very few girls are employed here. Chinese are more desirable here than Japanese. Edmund B. Kirby, manager of the War Eagle and Centre Star Mines, Rossland, says : There are enough Chinamen throughout the west to provide domestic service and do laundry work, and, in short, work of the class that white labour is reluctant to undertake, and up to that point I don't think they do any harm and are a benefit, and I find in private conversation that is the opinion of men all through the west. The reason being that there is a gap there for which there is no supply of white labour. The caste prejudice against domestic service is each year becoming stronger, and white girls seem to be more reluctant to undertake that class of work. Smith Curtis, M.L.A., Rossland, barrister, for the last two years engaged in mining, says : Take the case of domestic servants. Were there no Chinese available I have no doubt that there would be a fair supply of white domestic servants, were they paid the necessary wages. Give servant girls here the same wages given to Chinese and exclude Chinese from this service altogether, so that it will not be looked upon as a menial employment, as it is at present, from them being engaged in it, and a fair supply of girls would I believe come into the country. I lived fourteen years in Manitoba and we had more or less difficulty in getting servants, yet we pulled through, and British Columbia could do the same if Chinese were out of it. If I were in the British Columbia government and the Chinese were shut out, I would undertake to get servant girls in the country. Girls don't look forward to domestic service where orientals do that if 172 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 service. They look upon it as a more «ienial work than they otherwise would. If more servant girls here were married off it would greatly benefit the country. Henry E. Creasdale, of Nelson, former manager of the Hall Mines and Smelter, says : In domestic service the Chinese do not come in conflict in any way with the labouring classes here. I am quite willing to admit the majority of people here are opposed to employing Chinese, but I think they are made up of those who never employ Chinese, and never found any benefit from their service. If you took the employers I think you would find the majority in favour of keeping the restriction as at present. There is no doubt to anyone who knows the country and the scale of wages paid if you had to depend on white women to do the drudgery, they would not do it all, or only for very high remuneration, and if immigration was completely stopped, it follows that with an increasing population the number of Chinese servants must become less than the demand. I should say their presence has indirectly assisted development in a way : that is to say, people have come into the country and have become interested in it, who would not come if they had not Chinese servants, and the ordinary domestic comfort has been favoured by the Chinese. They contribute to the comfort of the whites who are here. It is not because of the Chinese being here that girls cannot get employment; girls are not avilable., Fong Wing Chong says : Have resided in Nelson six years ; twenty-one years in British Columbia ; am a merchant, married, wife in China. I went home and married and left her there seven years ago; one child ; not been back since. There are about 325 Chinamen in Nelson,—50 cooks and servants, 20 in laundries, 40 working for white men, 50 gardeners. The rest have nothing to do,—150; half I know have nothing to do. Gustave A. Carlson, Mayor of Kaslo, says : I believe if we did not have the Chinese here we could have white servant girls, which would be much better. There is no encouragement now for them to come to this section. As it is there are only a few here and they get lonesome. AMERICAN EVIDENCE. A. H. Grout, Labour commissioner, Seattle, said : There are probably fifty Chinese cooks in Seattle in private families. Japanese have been getting into places as substitutes for Chinese. The Japanese help in that line is I think more satisfactory on the whole than the Chinese. They get in where employers cannot secure white women. Employers here prefer white help, but white help has been a little scarce for some time ; $15 to $30 a month for general domestic help; Chinese and white girls are about the same. Occasionally a good Chinaman may get a little more, but generally the white girl gets as good wages as the Chinaman. You cannot get a good Chinaman to take a position in a family for less than $20 or $25 a month. He knows he can get it; that is an experienced Chinaman. I advertised in Chicago and New York for white girls for domestic service. Some girls came here and got good positions, but were very soon picked up by the young men here,—got married and became good citizens. I think good white girls could be easily got for domestic service were they paid the same wages as the Chinese are paid. Most of the domestic service in this city is performed by white girls, and the service has been very satisfactory. The demand has always been in excess of the supply. We could fill fifty places if the girls were available to-day. There has not been a time within the last few years that we could not place twenty girls at a time. The American girls perfer other callings where the work is lighter and perhaps where the hours are shorter. Q. Does that dearth of domestic help cause many families to go boarding %—A. It has quite an effect in that direction ; I know of several instances where families have been obliged to do without help for several weeks, and finally they have had to close up their homes and go boarding. Several cases I know of. Q. You furnish white and Chinese and Japanese, no distinction %—A. In domestic service the girls are scarce, and so people are glad to get Chinese or Japanese, but that is the only department affected in that way. L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 173 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Do you think the presence of large numbers of Chinese and Japanese here would have a tendency to keep white labour from coming in ?—A. Yes, I think so. It would have a tendency to keep out domestic servants also. If there were large numbers of Chinese here the wages would be reduced and that would be an inducement to people to get that kind of help. P^\. Where the white labourer goes he takes his family with him and from that spurce the greater part of our white domestic help is drawn. If the families were withdrawn from this market then their places would be filled with Chinese and Japanese. We would rather have white men and their families and do without the Chinese and Japanese altogether. Miss Nina Kocklowski, assistant to the last witness in the labour bureau of Seattle, said : All applications for domestic service come before me. Most all the places are filled by whites. Very few families have coloured help. A great many families do not care to take coloured girls in, although those whom they have taken into domestic service make good house servants. There are some Japanese employed in households in the city. The Japanese/prefer to go to service where they can work part of the. day and get away to go to school in the afternoon. Most of our people prefer to get white girls as domestic servants. The Chinese as a rule want too high wages; they want to get from $30 to $35 a month, whereas a white girl will be paid from $20 to $25 a month. The Chinese I speak of is a first class cook. Six Chinese have come in since I have been in the office, that is since November, 1899 ; 534 white girls have applied to me for domestic service this month ; 534 was just for one month. These are what I sent out. That was the number of orders for girls. I am sure there were 500 places filled anyway. Sometimes there is a scarcity and at other times the supply is equal to the demand. Friday and Saturday I find that girls are scarce. I can get whatever number of girls I want. I think I could get two hundred girls all right. I have about fifty orders now. The proportion of Chinese and Japanese to whites is very small indeed. There are other employment agencies in the city. Many families go to the Chinese and Japanese boarding houses. The figures I have given only apply to our own office. Very few families care to take Japanese help, and as to the Chinese, they want very high wages, and families do not care about taking them and paying such high wages. Last month we supplied in the neighbourhood of four hundred girls with places. Quite a number apply for places to do washing, scrubbing and the like. The wage paid is $1.50 a day and the hours of labour are from eight until five o'clock. Quite a number of girls come from the east, from Minnesota and around there. Quite a number of girls came from Victoria in January last, but lately not so many. They wanted to get housework. Q. We have been told that girls are scarce in Victoria, that they cannot get them at all ?—A. I do not doubt it, because the girls come over here and get better pay. From what I hear from the girls coming here, they are not well paid in Victoria. Not long ago a girl came and told me that she wanted to get domestic service here. I asked her where she came from, as she appeared to be a very good girl; she told me she came from Victoria, that she had been working there for $8 a month in Victoria, and working for a family of six. It is no surprise to me that girls should come here and prefer to live here working hard for a little pay in Victoria. The girl secured a good place here at good wages, and the family are well satisfied with her. In January there were six girls from Canada applied for work ; they came from Victoria to Seattle. The wages are from $20 to $25 a month; the going wages are $20 a month. Note.—The city of Seattle established in 1894 a free labour bureau and employment office, and has maintained it ever since. Last year this office found places for 27,605 workmen and from 400 to 500 domestic servants per month. (See 7th Annual Report of the Labour Commissioner of the City of Seattle for the year 1900, at page 222 of American evidence taken under this Commission.) James D. Phelan, Mayor of San Francisco, said: The Chinese are engaged largely domestic service. People who cannot get white .domestics go down to Chinatown in and get Chinamen. I think this is very undesirable. Che Chinaman engages in domes 174 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 tic service through the day and at night he returns to Chinatown and engages in gambling and opium smoking, and in the morning returns to the domestic circle, and what the effect of his associating with gamblers and opinm smokers in Chinatown has upon the domestic circle, I leave it for yourselves to picture. Some people have an aversion to Chinese in their homes. Those who have them, I must say, consider them very valuable as domestic servants. The Chinese have been so long in domestic service that they have crowded out the white girls. It is one of the problems of the day to find places for our young women. I have helped myself within the last three months to establish a place, from which families could get white women to work. We got a number of sewing machines and got white girls to make up women's work, but we had to give it up. The Chinese would bring their wares to the stores and sell them cheaper than we could produce them. The Chinese have crept into a great many places and people hardly realize what they are doing. SUMMARY. The above fairly indicates the different views expressed on this subject. A number of witnesses stated that girls refused to take service where Chinese are employed, and doubtless there is some force in this. Many complain that after obtaining white servants at great expense and with difficulty, sometimes from the eastern provinces, and sometimes from the Old Country, they marry within a very short time, and after trying to supply their places with white servants are compelled to engage the Chinamen. The fact that Chinese servants are always to be had when wanted, and that white servants are difficult to obtain, accounts partly for the fact that Chinese are chiefly employed, although white servants would be preferred by many. While opinions differ, it may at once be conceded that under present conditions it is exceedingly difficult to obtain white servants, and a large proportion of those who employ domestic servants are dependent upon the Chinese for a supply. The cause of this abnormal scarcity of white domestic servants is not far to seek. The callings requiring unskilled labour are largely filled by Chinese and Japanese, who have thus taken the places of fathers of families from which, under normal conditions, domestic servants would be drawn. In Victoria for instance there are 3,000 Chinese engaged in various callings, or unemployed : 198 market gardeners, 48 sawmill hands, 886 cannerymen, 197 laundry- men, and over 800 labourers employed and unemployed. Can it be doubted that if these positions were filled with white men, a large proportion of whom might be expected to have families, the difficulty of obtaining white servants would be greatly minimized 1 If callings usually filled by white men, with families from which domestic servants are usually supplied, are occupied by Qhinese, is it surprising that there is a great scarcity of domestic servants, and how can it be expected to be otherwise until these conditions are changed ? This applies with greater or less force throughout the province. In Nanaimo for instance, with a Chinese population of over 500, only 42 are employed as domestic servants and cooks. In New Westminster, with a Chinese population of over 700, 65 only are cooks and domestic servants ; and in Vancouver, where the Chinese number over 2,000, only 262 are so employed. The Chinese both create and fill the'want. While on the Canadian side the greater number of the domestic servants and cooks are either Chinese or Japanese on the American side, in Washington and Oregon, comparatively few appear to be so employed. In Seattle it was stated that there were about fifty Chinese cooks, and that only six had been sent out through the City Labour Bureau since November, 1899, while 534 white domestic servants had been placed within a month. In Portland there are said to be about 200 Chinese employed as domestic servants. There is the usual scarcity of domestic servants in Seattle, but at the time we visited that city the supply was said to equal the demand. It is not suggested here that if there were no Chinese or Japanese in British Columbia there would be no difficulty in obtaining domestic servants, but it is believed that if the positions now occupied by L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CJhinese were filled with white men, the conditions would be much the same as in the east. At present there seems to be a surplus of both Chinese and Japanese, some of whom doubtless will take to domestic service, and should no more Chinese come into the ■country, with the present supply already there, this question like others will adjust itself to the new conditions. CHAPTER XVLL—THE LAUNDRY BUSINESS. The laundry business in British Columbia is largely in the hands of the Chinese. In Victoria there are 40 Chinese wash houses, giving employment to 197 Chinamen, in Vancouver 35, employing 192; in New Westminster 9, employing 38; in Rossland 20, employing 60 Chinamen, and other towns and. villages in proportion. These wash houses occupied by Chinese are in different parts of the city, and a tenement that is not fit for anything else is usually rented for that purpose. They are regarded as a nuisance and a menace by those who live in the vicinity, and great difficulty has been had to enforce sanitary regulations in regard to them by the city authorities. The average wages paid are from $8 to $18 per month, and board. Steam laundries are also used in the principal cities and towns. As to how far they are able to compete will appear in the evidence quoted; but it is quite clear that white labour, having regard to the cost of living, cannot compete with the Chinese A. F. McCrimmon has carried years. He employs seven men and twenty-three women and girls pays his men from $10 to $15 a week, and his girls on a steam laundry business in Victoria for eight His charges are higher than the Chinese. He and women from $4 to $7.50 a week. He has capacity for eight or ten more hands. There was another steam laundry started in Victoria, but quit the business as it could not get work enough. There is sufficient work in Victoria to keep four steam laundries busy if there were no Chinese. It would take three or four times the number of Chinese to do the work as well without steam. He favoured a tax of $500, or exclusion. It will be seen from the above that if this business was entirely done by steam laundries, there would be employed 28 men and 91 women and girls. Donald M. Stewart has a steam laundry in Vancouver. There are four there, including the C. P. R. hotel. Mr. Stewart employs fronj 70 to 75 hands. He says the Chinese do nearly three-fourths of the work. All the steam laundries employ white people. Alfred Lareen has a steam laundry in Nelson and employs fourteen hands. He pays out wages amounting from $840 to $900 per month. He has no difficulty in getting help. He pays three hands $18 a week each, one $15 a week, girls $10 a week, overtime extra. He has capacity for three times the work he does. He employs white labour exclusively. He says he cannot do the laundry work as low as the Chinese. He has expended in the laundry business $28,000 in two years. At Grand Forks the steam laundry had to close down on account of the Chinese competition. At Greenwood the laundry is still in business. Before it started the Chinese charged 75 cents per dozen, afterwards they dropped to 25 cents per dozen. Mrs. Walsh, a widow, residing at Nelson, complained that she could not compete with the Chinese and lost her means of livelihood. Mrs. Josephine Marshall, the vice-president of the laundry workers' union of Nelson, pointed out that many white women who had to earn their own living, could not get enough work to do, on account of the competition of the Chinese. This witness declared that there were plenty of girls that could not get work. 176 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 EXHIBIT 67 B. RESOLUTION TO ROYAL COMMISSION FROM NELSON LAUNDRY WORKERS UNION. Nelson, B.C., February 14, 1901. Confronted by direct Mongolian competition, we the undersigned members on behalf of the Nelson Laundry Workers' Union do condemn and declare the same to be injurious to our business to the extent that about seventy-five per cent of the laundry in this city, and all in the outlying towns and camps, is done by Chinamen, thereby curtailing the pay roll of our countrymen by eighty per cent and the number employed to a like amount. In the laundry work in Nelson alone there are at the lowest estimate two hundred Chinamen employed at a wage varying from 75 cents to $1.50 per day, their hours of labour extending over the whole twenty-four hours, with barely time to eat and sleep. In some wash-houses a double gang is worked, the off men sleeping in the same apartment as those working and often sleeping on clothes to be washed; and their habits are such that we feel sure that in many cases a health officer would condemn the same as injurious to public health. Knowing the above to be true, we have no hesitation in saying, were the Mongolians removed from the Kootenays, in addition to the two steam laundries, owned by the firm for whom we work at Nelson and Greenwood, each costing well on to $10,000, there would be at the present, room for five more each employing from fifteen to twenty hands and paying a fair profit to their owners, which we are sorry to say is not the case now. Trusting that the Commission will see the necessity of immediate action, we extend our most hearty approval and support to any legislation which will effectually remove this evil of Mongolian labour. Signed on behalf of the union, Mrs. MARSHALL, Vice-President, JOHN TEMPLETON, CARL LARSON, Secretary, I. J. LARSON, ROBERT NIEVLAIDES. Ming Lee, laundryman (farmer in China), says : I have been in business eight years in Victoria. Pay my men from $17 to $18 a month ; the lowest $8 a month. I board my men. I send home between $100 and $120 a year. I expect to return to China as soon as I get money. My wife is in China. *T had six acres of land in China. It cost $80 Chinese money to live there. I intend to go back to China by and by. If there were no tax on the wives and children I think Chinamen would bring their wives and families to this country. I would certainly bring my wife. It costs too much money to keep them here and feed them here. Sun Sam Cheong, laundryman, who has lived eighteen years in Victoria, says : As soon as I arrived I went into the laundry business. I went home and came back and took it up again, and have been in.it up fcto date. I have a wife and three children in China. Sometimes I send $100 a year and sometimes $130, and the largest amount I ever sent is $180 a year. I employ ten men, including myself. The highest wage I pay is $18 a month and the lowest is $6 a month. I have hardly enough work to keep my men busy. I pay $20 a month rent. I am in debt now, because I have so much of debt that cannot be collected. I board the men I employ. Each man costs me about $7 or $8 a month. If I did not make so many bad debts I would earn something. Several years ago I made some earnings, but during several years I hardly make any earnings at all. The largest amount of money that any man owes me for a bad debt is $100 ; one man owes me that. That man's washing comes to $5 a month. I have been washing for him since starting the laundry business. Four, men owe me about that, and lots of them owe me from $10 to $20. As to honesty, Chinese and whites are about the same. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 177 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Mar San, laundryman, of Nelson, says : I have eight or nine men in my laundry. There are nine Chinese laundries altogether in Nelson. I and two others employ eight or nine men. The rest employ two or three men each,—altogether about fifty Chinese laundrymen. I have been here eight years. My wife is in CJhina. I pay my men $20 a month and give them board. I pay $18 a month for rent, and $10 a year for license. I own one house in Chinatown. The lot cost $850; the house cost $1,500. I can't tell if $100 is too much to pay, head tax. I can't say if $500 will keep the Chinese out. I don't care. I am not a British subject. A.« H. Grout, Labour Commissioner, Seattle, says : I should judge that from one- sixth to one-eighth of the work done by laundries is done by Chinese, and the other seven-eights of the work is done in laundries where white people are employed. SUMMARY. The result of the evidence seems to be, that probably from eight hundred to one thousand Chinamen are engaged in this business. They do their work well, and are, in many places where steam laundries do not and cannot exist, a great convenience, but at the same time they take the place of many poor people who would find in this employment an addition to their stinted means. This may be looked upon as a trivial matter, but in the aggregate it is large. Doubtless the work is done cheaper than it would be by white labour, but a large proportion of the money paid for the service does not return into circulation, but, as in the case of other employments occupied by Chinese, pasSes out of the country. There is probably paid out in wages to Chinese laundrymen in British Columbia over $200,000 a year, a small proportion of which benefits the country at large. CHAPTER XVIII—PART I—MERCHANT TAILORS. During the course of the investigation it was frequently stated that Chinese labour was employed in the more menial and unskilled employments, and that there was no danger of it encroaching upon the different trades and callings where higher wages are obtained. How far this is so, will appear from the examination of this and other trades, where they have already entered, and in some cases supply all the labour except the foreman. James Andrew Grant, a merchant tailor, of fifteen years' standing in Victoria, says: In 1891 there were eighteen white tailor shops employing 150 men and women, with a yearly wage of over $109,000; average weekly wages for men $18, for women $10. A Tailors' Union existed with a membership of 130. The first competition from Chinese was in 1891. Then there were 150 whites employed. On March 13, 1901, there were employed in Victoria in the tailoring business twenty-one white men and 30 women and girls, with an average wage for the men of $12 per week, and for the women $6 per week, giving a yearly total of about $22,464. In the meantime the population of the city has nearly doubled. The decrease in wages is $86,736 per year. To what extent has this change been brought about by Chinese entering into competition in this line of business? There are fourteen firms of Chinese merchant tailors, employing eighty-four hands in the manufacture of clothes for white people. This does not include two firms who manufacture Chinese clothing. It must not be supposed that these Chinese firms manufacture the cheaper class of clothing; the contrary is the fact. The evidence was indisputable, that many of their firms have a very large trade in the highest class of work, including ladies' tailor-made'dresses, which it was said formed about one-third of their business. Daniel Campbell, who is a high-class tailor, said that he had carried on business in Victoria since 1889. Wages were about fifty per cent lower now than then. He now 54—12 178 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 employs one hand where before he employed sixteen. Victoria then contained about 16,000 of population, now about 25,000. The Chinese competition has caused this. He then, as did other merchant tailors, went into great detail as to the cost of manufacture. He still paid for high-class work $18 per week. He had to move into cheaper premises where he now pays $40 a month for rent instead of $80, owing to the falling off in business. He says a suit that would cost $35, the Chinese tailor sells for $18 to $22. That simply drove them out. A serge suit which he would sell for $28 they would sell for $18. Their work would not pass his inspection at all. The figures quoted above show a decrease in the actual number of hands employed from 150 in 1891 to 135 in 1901; in the former year only white hands were employed, whereas in the latter year eighty-four Chinese are included in the total. This decrease in the number of hands employed, in view of the increase in population, and of the fact that the Chinese engage in ladies' tailoring, and, also, in tailoring for their own people, would indicate the extent to which eastern ready-made clothing has encroached upon the tailoring business, but the fact remains that the Chinese do more than half of the ' made to order' clothing in Victoria. John Logg, a journeyman tailor, of Victoria, put it in this way: I came here in 1889. I stayed two years at that time; conditions were good. My wages averaged over $20 a week. About ninety men and sixty women were employed. Now the average wage is about $12 a week for men and about $6 for women. The Chinese came into competition and are taking almost the whole trade. It is impossible for a white man to compete with them. Whenever I pass at eight, ten or eleven o'clock p.m. the hands are working. The white men can hardly live here, and they have left. Their manner and mode of living is altogether different. I am a married man and have four children. I don't know of a single case of any Chinese house like a white man's. Our business will be wiped out. If things do not change, and that soon, I will leav*e with my family, and leave the country. It seems to apply to other trades as well as our own. It will stop the flow of immigration into this country. Most of the journeymen have families. The Chinese competitor does not bring his wife with him. This witness gave a carefully prepared statement of the cost of living for himself and family for one year in Victoria. The family consists of himself, wife and four children. Rent, $8 per month $ 96 Groceries, meat, milk, &c 365 Fuel, wood and coal, $2.50 per month 30 Boots and shoes 40 Dry goods and clothing, self 30 " " wife • 30 I " children, $10 each 40 School supplies 12 Scavenger 9 Taxes 5 Furniture, dishes, &c 5 Total \ $662 There should be added something for laundry, fraternal societies, newspapers, church, doctors' bills, nursing, &c. If all these were added it would bring up the cost of living to $800 a year. I am living in a house altogether too small. If I had a large enough house it would cost $4 a month more. A white man cannot exist on wages brought about by Chinese competition. T. R. Smith, Victoria, commission merchant, said: When I came here to Victoria first there was tailoring done by white tailors. No tailor would work for less than so much per garment, and the cost of clothing was theh so high that it induced a great many from Toronto and Montreal to send their travellers here, and they took a large part of the business away from the tailors here. If they had been content with less profit the trade would all have been kept here. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 179 Samuel McPherson, merchant tailor, and member of the Merchant Tailors' Association, Vancouver, says : I was appointed at a meeting to appear here and answer any questions. The Chinese have" affected our trade some, but not as much here as in Victoria as yet. There are three shops here, one Japanese and two Chinese shops, who do custom tailoring for white people ; one employs from four to six hands. The principal work they do here is in the manufacture of overalls and shirts for the wholesale furniture establishment. Apart from these three shops I do not know of any others who do custom work. Q. Was that the work that used to be done by white men and women—the making of overalls and shirts %—A. Not in this country that I am aware of, not in the Province* of British Columbia. From my own standpoint as a merchant tailor I do object to the Chinese coming in. I do not think they are any good to the country. If their numbers increased in the trade as it has done in Victoria, it would be a very serious injury to our trade here. I am more dissatisfied with the way in which they learn the trade than with the present restriction ; they learn their trade from the Dominion Government. They are committed to the penitentiary for some offence; they learn the trade in the penitentiary; there is one of them in Vancouver now and one in Victoria and another one who is here. Q. What would you do with them ?—A. Let them learn something else. Q. What else 1—A. Well, speaking from a selfish point of view, any trade that does not interfere with me. The reason I mention it is—I was trade inspector in the penitentiary for three years, and those three men were there. One is now doing quite a business on the corner of Hastings Street and Columbia Avenue; they are in the same business as I am; they buy from the same wholesale man as I do, but when a white man goes there to buy from them they do not want their names to appear in English on their books; their names are put down in Chinese; that is what one of thejn told me himself. I am in favour of further restriction; we can get on very nicely without any more of them. My reason for favouring restriction or exclusion is that there is danger from them of driving our men out of the business. The tailoring has not improved in the last three years; it is not as good as it used to be. Q. Why 1—A. Well, eastern competition as much as anything else, and there are more tailors. There is not so much business done by them altogether as there was three years ago. There are three shops, averaging from four to six men apiece, say- fifteen hands altogether, of Chinese and Japanese. Of the white shops there are over twenty, with from eighty to eighty-five workmen; in a dull season perhaps about forty-five. Q. If a factory is established here working exclusively with Mongolian labour would it be possible for them to produce so cheaply as to shut out eastern competition ? —A. Yes; that is my idea, that Mongolian labour should not be allowed to come into competition with our own people here. Alex. McCallum, merchant tailor, of Vancouver, said : Q. Do I take it that the Merchant Tailors' Association as a whole are opposed to further Chinese immigration %—A. Yes, as far as the association was represented. We were all present at that meeting. Q. Is there any other special point you wish to bring before the Commission 1—A. Did Mr. McPherson refer to the teaching of Chinese in the penitentiary ? Q. Yes.—AJ I am not familiar with that, but I am anxious that that should be brought out. There is no distinction between the Chinese and Japanese as far as qur particular trade is concerned. Their prices are far too low. The prices would indicate that the wages they pay to their men were such that white men could not make garments and live here. Their charges for a suit are so low that they indicate that no white man could work for the same wages. We would prefer all white labour here. Then we do not get any advantage from those people as customers. As soon as they make a little money they send it away to China and Japan, instead of spending it for clothes as white people do. 54—12i 180 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Francis Williams, a journeyman tailor in Vancouver, said : There is so much competition by Chinese and Japanese that the white man will be driven out of the trade unless the immigration of these people is restricted or stopped. Twelve years ago when I came here I knew but two or three Chinese engaged in trade and no Japanese. To-day the Chinese and Japanese outnumber the whites by three to two. The number of white tailors here is fifty-five or sixty, the Chinese and Japanese 120 ; of these, ninety to one hundred are Chinese. Tim Kee, a Chinese tailor of Victoria, stated that he employs from tjjvo to four men and pays them from $25 to $35 a month. The men commence work at 9 o'clock and usually quit at 8 o'clock at night, with an hour allowed each for dinner and supper. He further says : Q. What do you charge your men for board ?—A. We charge about $10 a month. Q. Is that deducted from their wages ?—A. No, we pay them so much a month in clothes, board and lodging. Q. Where they have lodgings to pay, how much do they pay ?—A. It is this way : two, or three get together and rent a room. They get a room for $3, $4 or $5 a month and all live together. Q. Sometimes more live together ?—A. Yes, sometimes six live together. Q. How many have you known join together in renting a room ?—A. Four or five. Q. How large a room would that be ?—A. About 8 feet by 12 feet. Q. What I would like to know is what it would actually cost a Chinaman to live in the way you describe ?—A. I would say $7 or $8 a month. Q. What do you charge for lodging alone ?—A. About $1.50. Q. If it is not so good then it would be $1 ?—A. Yes. I do not have any lodging house ; we give them a bunk and they get their own clothes. We charge them so much rent per month. | Q. And he furnishes his own blankets ?—A. Yes, sir. Q. And the usual price for that is $1 a month?—A. Yes, that is the usual price. This witness further stated that the cost of board for a labouring man boarding himself would be about $4.50 or $5 a month. Charlie Bo, another Chinese tailor of Victoria, employed six hands and paid from $30 to $40 a month and their board and lodging. The hours of work given by this witness were the same as the last. He says : The average amount of business altogether that I do in a month is about $900. I guess I make seventeen or eighteen suits of clothes a month. From January to December it averages about fifteen suits a month that we make for white men. We average about fifteen suits a month for white men in the year, and for Chinese from eighteen to twenty suits a month. The Chinese suits costs $12, $14, $16 and $20, different prices. Yuen Wah, Victoria, a Chinese journeyman tailor, said : He worked for $30 a month' and board and lodging, and works from 8 o'clock in the morning till 8 o'clock at night, with an hour allowed out for meals. Alexander Peden, journeyman tailor of Victoria, said : About ten years ago Mr. Jackson employed sixteen or seventeen hands. He paid them as high as $20 a week, and it has just gradually fallen away, until now he employs eight men, half the number he did then, and at that time we only did men's tailoring. Ladies' tailoring furnishes about one-third of the work. A good deal of ladies' tailoring is done by Chinese. If we only did men's tailoring we could only employ five men for that. I attribute the falling off wholly to the Chinese. We cannot compete with their prices at all. A suit the Chinese make up for $14 we could not make for less than $22 or $23. William H. Middleton, Secretary of the Western Central Labour Union, Seattle, said : There are a few Chinese tailors here. It is not a very serious competition with white tailors, 'and they are not patronized at all by organized labour ; that is to say, if we discover any of our members patronizing the Chinese stores, the organization would not stand it. A man doing that would be at once expelled from the union. No white man is able to compete with Chinese labour. It is quite clear on comparing the cost of the different suits, that it was impossible for the white tailor to compete, without reducing wages below what a journeyman tailor ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 181 with a family could live uponjmd properly support and educate his children. If matters continue for a few years as in the past the Chinese tailors will practically control this source of employment. PART II.—WHOLESALE MANUFACTURE OF CLOTHING. The wholesale manufacture of clothing in the province is chiefly centred in Victoria. White women and girls and Chinese are largely employed in this industry, but the Ohinese have almost entirely displaced white labour in some branches. The change came about in this way, as explained by James Andrew Grant, of Victoria. He says : We concluded to go into manufacturing (of clothing). We put in plant costing us over $2,000 for the latest machinery. We got work from the wholesale merchants at a price we thought we could make money at. They told us the prices they had been paying to the Chinese, and we were informed that they would give us the preference over the Chinese and that, while the Chinese took the most of their payments for work out in trade, they would pay us in cash. That was the information we got from the wholesale houses. We got $6.50 a dozen for the best grade of ready-made. I refer to this particular branch as an illustration. The Chinese found that this was going to injure their trade, and they offered to do the work for $5.50 a dozen. The wholesale house informed us that we could have the trade at $5.50 for the same work. They admitted to us that our work was superior, but they were not willing to make any sacrifice to us. Well, the end of it all was that the price came down to $4.50 a dozen, and we could not compete at that. That is $4.50 for making a dozen pairs of pants. If you want to have evidence I can produce the books to show the figures I have mentioned to be correct. We employed about forty hands at that time. We employed sixty hands in all. We employed forty hands at that time for that business. These hands were not tailors or tailoresses. They were machine operators and finishers and pressers. I may say we went out of the manufacturing business. Q. Why did you do that ?—A. Well, it was a financial failure. We could not possibly make a success of it. We were unable to compete with the Chinamen. We were losing money. Q. Can you speak of the wages you were paying?—A. We were paying from $16 to $40 a month for that class of work. We paid $16 a month to hands who were learning. In that class of work we employed no tailors at all. They could make at first at that class of work $16 a month, and afterwards earned $40 a month when they were expert at it. Q. What proportion of these were women ?—A. All women except the pressers. Q. White women ?—A. Yes. We decided to try and keep the hands on. We asked them to work by the piece and see what they could earn. The girls worked hard and they earned about forty cents a day. That is all they could earn on piece work. Needless to say they quit piece ^vork. We still kept them on for some time, because at that time the Klondike rush came on, and we were able to pay them big wages. But that was the end of the manufacture for the wholesale houses. In the experiment we made with piece work we counted on nothing towards paying our rent. We simply paid the girls what was coming to them, and they could make about forty cents a day. The hands we were paying $1 a day before that, could only make forty cents a day on piece work when the price was reduced to $4.50. We were running our tailoring business in connection with that, or else we could not have kept it up so long. We made a little on that and lost it in the other. We could not compete with the Chinamen at the prices paid for any of the other garments even, such as jackets, coats, lumbermen's jackets, waiters' jackets and different kinds of jackets in addition, to pants and overalls. Q. I understand you to say that you started at the price the wholesale men were paying to the Chinese; then the Chinese dropped below it; you came down to their 182 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 price again, until finally a point was reached where you could not manufacture except at a loss; then you gave up the business ?—A. Yes, we went out of that, line of business. The work is done by Chinese through Chinese contractors. George Allen ELirk, wholesale merchant, of Victoria, says : When I have had goods made by Chinese they were put out by piece work to the different Chinese contractors. Q. Evidence has been given here that work was done for the wholesale houses by Chinese, more particularly in the manufacture of clothing; that the Chinese reduced the prices; that white men lowered their prices to meet that of the Chinese ; but again the Chinese lowered the prices and the white men followed suit, and then the Chinese lowered their prices for the third time, and came down so low that white men, even with the aid of machinery, could not compete, and the white men were driven out?—A. The work is cut out by our company, and is given to the Chinese to make up. Q. Do you find the competition of the Chinese has a tendency to reduce prices ?— A. Yes, but I do not think it is the Chinese only that bring prices down. We have competition from the east as well in the making of overalls. Q. Are your importations greater in value than the articles manufactured in Canada, speaking of the trade generally ?—A. That of course I cannot say. I know we make nearly everything in the line that is sold. We do import overalls sometimes from San Francisco. Q. Are they equally satisfactory ?—A. We piefer to have them made here. Q. In that case do you consider it better for the country and for the Province to have the goods manufactured here ?—A. I think it better to have them manufactured here, even with Chinese labour, because we make more on them than on the stuff we import. If they were imported from the other side I would not employ men here at all, but simply sit down and write a letter and order so many dozen of such and such* goods. Q. Wouldn't you prefer to see the class of garments you manufacture here by Chinese labour manufactured by white labour in the east, in preference to importing alien labour here and the trade going into their hands ?—A. No, it is a matter of profit to me. Q. Don't you see that if you employ that class of labour in your trade the final result will be that other trades will employ the same class of labour ?—A. Yes. Q. Are you able to say how the prices paid for making up these garments compare with the prices paid in the east for the same class of work ?—A. I do not know, but we are able to manufacture a little below eastern prices now. Q. That is to say, you pay a little less than eastern labour plus the freight ?—A. Yes, we can sell at the same price that eastern men sell, only we claim to make a better article. Q. Do you know the conditions under which the goods are manufactured in the east, with which you have to compete ?—A. No, I do not. Q. You do not know the systematic conditions ?—A. I think they have factories and they employ a large number of girls. They have cutters who get out a large quantity of work, and I think that work is done by piece work. Q. You refer to the big eastern cities, do you ?—A. I refer to Montreal and Toronto.. W. A. Lorimer, salesman for Turner, Beeton & Company, of Victoria, described the method of procuring this work to be done by stating that: We make no contracts ;, just as the work requires to be done we give it out to the Chinese boss. Four Chinese firms do our work. It amounts to about $300 a month in trade. We have our canvas, work done by white-labour. It costs more, but I give white men the preference, probably as a matter of sentiment. Our house handles coarse clothing, such as mackinaw. The Chinese manufacture these. Women could do this work, but it would necessitate putting in a power plant. We pay $4.50 for pants and $5.00 for coats a dozen. The Chinese tell me they pay their men from $8 or $10 up to $25 a month and board them. Moses Lenz of Victoria, said: We manufacture shirts, overalls, underwear, pants and the like, canton flannel and flannel underwear. The Chinese are principally engaged in the manufacture of overalls and pants. This work* amounts from $150 to $200 a month. We also have a factory where white hands are engaged, 27 at present, ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER manufacturing principally shirts, underwear, &c. An experienced girl is paid $20 a month. Good girls earn as high as $30 a month; apprentices $10. Q. What are the Chinese able to make usually ?—A. We pay them by the dozen. For pants all the way up from $3.50 to $5 a dozen. Q. What kind of pants ?—A. Tweed and worsted pants. Q. Supposing there was absolute prohibition of any further immigration of Chinese, are there enough here for the present trade ?—A. Yes, for the present trade; but last season we were very busy, and we could hardly get our work done. It was very hard to fill all our orders. Q. Last year you had the Yukon trade ?—A. Yes, we had our own factory and got all the outside help we could get. Q. Could you afford to employ whites with machines at your trade ?—A. I think the class of manufacture is too low for white men. ■Q. White girls ?—A. We employ all the white girls we can get. Q. Do you prefer them to Chinese ?—A. We do in most work. They do better work. Q. You have never made up your mind whether you were in favour of unrestricted iminigration or not?—A. No. Q. Are you able to hold your own with the eastern manufacturers ?—A. As a rule we are'able to compete with the eastern people; in very low lines of goods we may not be able to compete. We cannot compete in the low lines, either by white labour or Chinese; but in the most of our manufactures it is cheaper for us to manufacture here. It is an advantage to us to manufacture. If we bought the goods we could hardly be able to compete with other houses. The majority of the factories sell both to the wholesale and retail trade. They would compete with us in selling their own goods. If we were to buy from different houses, probably three or four travellers would be selling the same identical line of goods. Q. If the Chinese were excluded would it affect it ?—A. In present conditions we could not get the labour. When we first started we had foot power machines, and now we have electricity. If we could get it, we would employ white labour. A. M. Sandell, cutter at Lens & Leiser's, wholesale manufacturers of clothing, Victoria, says : I should say we had about thirty or thirty-five Chinese engaged in the business. We average about $200 a month for the work done. They work for other houses and earn from 90 cents to a dollar a day. We have experienced women who women to do the girls and. and as high as A. No, there is a earn from $20 to $30 per month. There are not sufficient work. Men could not do it, and live. Q. What do you pay for trousers a dozen?—A. $2.25, $3, $4.50, Q. White men cannot live on that ?—A. No. Q. There is no difficulty in getting Chinese to do the work?— surplus. Q. A large surplus, do you think ?—A. Yes. Q. So if the Chinese here are allowed to remain and further Chinese immigration prohibited entirely, there are quite sufficient Chinese here now to supply the labour market?—A. Yes, quite sufficient. Q. You would not be affected in your business by any restriction or prohibition?— A. Not at all. Q. For how long a time to come do you think ?—A. For all time. Q. So from your standpoint further restriction, or even prohibition, would not affect your business, leaving the Chinese here that are here ?—A. That is my view. Q. Are you in favour of restriction or prohibition; what is your own opinion about it ?—-A. I think it would be better for the country in general to have no more Chinese come in. Q. There is at present a poll tax of $100 ?—A. That is not sufficient. Q.. We were told by one witness that the white men did the work satisfactorily, then the Chinese came down in price, then the white men dropped their price, then the Chinese dropped their prices again to such an extent that white men could not do the work and live, and these white men were driven out of-the country?—A, White men 184 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 could-not do that class of work—ready made trousers—and compete with the other business. I cannot speak of any but my own business. Q. You say there is abundance of Chinese labour here now?—A. Yes. Q Is that the way all the year through?—A. Yes. Q. Just as plentiful in summer as in winter ?—A. Except in the canning season, and that does not last long. Q. Have you sufficient of Chinese then!—A, I think we have sufficient; not many tailors go to the canning. There are sufficient left to do all the tailoring we want done. Chinese in our employ make overalls, the white girls, shirts. We send the best tweed pants to Chinese now. I do not think white men ever did it; it was done by girls, now by Chinese. If the Chinese were deported from Victoria, we should have to go out of the business of making overalls. If the present number of Chinese remain our trade will not be affected. I think white labour is getting more plentiful. The matter will adjust itself. White labour will have a tendency to increase in this country if Chinese are kept out. John Piercy, manufacturer of clothing and men's wear, Victoria, said: We employ from ten to twelve or fourteen Chinese, who work by the piece. We contract with two different men. I am sure I do not know what wages they average; I have never gone into it; probably they earn $10 a week sometimes. Probably we pay out $250 S, month to the Chinese. We employ those Chinese because we cannot get enough of white labour for our factory. We have from eighteen to twenty white women employed. They do a better class of work than the Chinese. I do not think the Chinese capable of doing as good work as the white women. I think if there was plenty of labour to be got in the city the white girls could do just as well, if not better, than the Chinese in the work the Chinese are doing, but we have not got the girls here and cannot get them. I do not think they are in the city. I think the women earn more than the Chinese, taking it all through. Q. Could you carry on your industry here without Chinese labour ?—A. Well, we could do so, but it would be a loss to us; at the same time we prefer to have Chinese labour until we can get more white labour; that is the position now. j If no more Chinese come in we could get more white labour. With the number of Chinese that are here and with a probable increase of white labour, I think we could carry on our business without loss. I am thoroughly in favour of exclusion; my reason for that is, sympathy for our own class and our own people. We prefer to give employment to our own people, if we can get them. We do not want the others to replace them. SUMMARY. There are several wholesale houses in Victoria that manufacture overalls and special lines of coarse underclothing and mackinaws, &c. The work is not done by regular journeymen tailors, but by women and Chinese. One firm put in a plant costing $2,000, with the latest machinery, and employed about forty hands, obtaining work from the wholesale merchants at a price which was thought would pay. The Chinese took most of their payment for work out in trade. This firm was paid in cash. The Chinese found that their trade was likely to be injured, and they offered to do it for less. The price continued to be cut until the firm was driven out of the business. The hands employed were then allowed to make all they could earn at the present prices ; the girls by working hard could only earn 40 cents a day on piece work, and quit. Since that time the work has been divided between women, girls and Chinese. The work done by Chinese is let by contract to Chinese bosses, who sublet, or engage their own men by the month. Certain parts of the trade are entirely in the hands of the Chinese. Women are said to earn from $20 to $30 per month ; apprentices, $10 a month. All the employers engaged in this business stated that sufficient white women and girls were not obtainable, and one stated that if the Chinese were deported, he would have to go out of business. All, however, agreed that the present supply was ample, and no injury would be done to the trade if no more Chinese were admitted. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CHAPTER XIX.—OTHER TRADES AND CALLINGS. 1, The manufacture of boots and shoes ; 2, cigar making ; 3, brickmaking ; 4, lime burning ; 5, fruit canning; 6, sugar refining ; 7, cordwood cutting ; 8, railways ; 9, the Canadian Pacific Steamship Company ; 10, railway construction ; 11, electric railways ; 12, freighting. I. THE MANUFACTURE OF BOOTS AND SHOES. There is one small boot and shoe factory in the province, at Victoria, employing sixteen CJhinese, who receive from $1 to $1.35 a day, and four white men at from $2 to ■|3 a day. The proprietor, Angus McKeown, who succeeded Ames, Holden & Company, stated that eight years ago there were 150 Chinese employed in the industry in Victoria, and only thirty white men ; now there are sixteen Chinese and four white men. The market being limited in the west, it was found difficult to compete with eastern manufacturers even with Chinese labour, owing to the fact that many lines are required, but comparatively few of each, so that they cannot be manufactured as cheaply as in the east. This witness stated that he was going to attempt to manufacture with white labour, as an experiment, or not at all, for the reason that customers are complaining as to Chinese labour, as they prefer to have goods made by white labour than by Chinese, and that they would rather buy imported boots and shoes than those made by the Chinese. The witness also stated that but for the Chinese, there would not have been such a thing as that industry here at all at that time. I do not think the factory would have existed here but for the Chinese. Q. Supposing further immigration were restricted what effect would it have on your business ?—A. I <Jo not think it would have any effect whatever. Q. Would you like to see the prohibition of the immigration of the coolie labouring- class ?—A. I think there are sufficient, quite sufficient in the country now for all purposes. There are only about ten or fifteen shoe shops in Victoria, employing from one to two white men each. Ready-mades practically govern the trade. There are two Chinese shoe shops, who employ three hands each, and pay from $25 to $30 a month to their men. William Smythe, of Victoria, a white man, keeps a shoe shop and employs from one to two Chinese, paying one $5 and the other $11 a week; one of these he has had with him for ten years and never had any reason to make any objection to him. This witness stated that he worked a number of years for Mr. Heathorne, as cutter, who then employed about eighty Chinese in the boot and shoe manufacture. During the time of Canadian Pacific Railway construction Mr. Heathorne's sales went up to $10,000 per month. He speaks very highly of them. They made goods that were saleable and parties came back for more ; that was proof of their work. We could depend on them six days in the week. Their hours were from seven to six o'clock, with an hour off for dinner. He attributes the reduction of men engaged in this line of business- to eastern competition. I think competition from the east has driven out more than the Chinese. The Chinamen never made the best goods here. The Chinaman does not make a high class shoe. About half his trade is with the Chinese. Q. Could you not obtain white labour at the price you pay Chinese ?—A. I cannot get white men I can rely on. They become demoralized. * Q. How do you account for white men becoming demoralized here ?—A. They are not good because they attend Lodges of Knights of Labour, and things of that kind. They are not as docile or as steady as the Chinese. When I want a couple of men I have to have men I can depend on. 186 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. You favour prohibition of further immigration of the Chinese ?—A. I do not. Q. You favour restriction ?—A. No, sir. I think white men ought to be able to compete with them on easy terms. Q. Would you favour unlimited immigration ?—A. ¥ es. It may be noted here that this witness is one of two or three who are in favour of unrestricted immigration of the Chinese. SUMMARY. It has been found difficult, if not impossible, to compete against the eastern trade, even with Chinese labour, in the manufacture of boots and shoes in British Columbia. At one time about eighty Chinese were employed in this business ; now there is but one factory, employing sixteen Chinese, and the proprietor stated his intention to be, to try the experiment of manufacturing exclusively with white labour, or not all. There are two Chinese shoe shops, employing three hands each. There are from ten to fifteen shoe shops, employing one or two white men each, and one instance where a white man employs a Chinese in his shoe shop. This gentleman was in favour of unlimited- Chinese immigration. The proprietor of the factory favoured exclusion, and stated that his business would not be affected if furthur immigration of Chinese were restricted. ii. -CIGAR MAKING. At Victoria there are thirty-two hands employed, of whom thirteen, including three girls, are incidental to the business ; that is, they do some work there, but they do not roll cigars ; that would leave nineteen cigar makers proper. The rate of wages paid is that of the Cigar Makers' International Union, which took effect on May 1, 1899, and ranges from $11 to $19 per thousand cigars, that is $1.10 to $1.90 a hundred. At Victoria there are seven Chinese, including three Chinese women, employed in the trade. The wages paid to the Chinese are from 50 cents to $1 per hundred cigars for making. While cigars are made in many other towns and cities throughout British Columbia, the Chinese do not appear to be employed in the trade except at Victoria. The cigars there made by them, it is said, are chiefly for consumption by Chinese. III. —BRICKMAKING. There are about three hundred men employed in and about the brick yards in British Columbia. This number varying of course with the demand. Of this from 85 to 90 per cent is Chinese labour. At one time white labour was exclusively employed. That was many years ago. Then white moulders were still retained with Chinese labour. Gradually some of these labourers learned to mould, until on the coast they do all the moulding and other work in connection with the brickmaking, whites being retained only as foremen and teamsters. At Kamloops, exclusively white labour is employed. Morris Humber, Brickmaker, Victoria, says: I employ twenty-three Chinese and: two whites outside of my sons. I pay the Chinese $9 and $10 a week, and a Chinese moulder $2.50 a day. Their board averages $2.95 per week where they live together. When I started business I paid $4 a day to moulders. A moulder's work is 8,000 bricks a day, whether he be a white man, black man, or Chinese. Japanese are not as good as Chinese. If white men would serve me as well I would have them. At one time I had all white men. I discharged all my Chinamen and hired all white men. I got along pretty well for a time; then they wanted to dictate terms to me, and dictate how I should run my yard. I came to the conclusion I would either have to close the yard or hire all Chinamen. When first I made bricks we got $12.50 a thousand. The prices came down to $6, and we now get $7.50 a thousand. I think it would be better for the Chinamen to stay in their own country. People would have to pay more for L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 18? SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 bricks, there is no doubt about that. Bricks in Eastern Canada are as high as they are? here, because wood is higher in price and labour is higher. Putting on a tax of $100 upon Chinese coming into the country, looks as if we were afraid of the Chinamen running away with our country. I think $100 is plenty to keep them out; I think there is a duty of $2.50 a thousand from the United States.. Bricks from Seattle cost six cents apiece. If I did not get the Chinese to work for me I could not sell. I would be foolish if I did not approve of tariff on bricks. If all were treated alike the Chinese would be all right. Q. According to that then we ought to restrict the immigration of Chinese here in order to protect white labour ?—A. No, sir ; I am perfectly satisfied with the prices I get.. Q. You are in favour of protection applied to yourself, but not to others ?—A. I do- not know. I think the protection is all right as it is. William Bull, foreman for the last witness, says: There are four brick yards in Victoria and vicinity; fourteen white men are employed and seventy-one Chinese. The- white men are paid from $2 to $2.50 a day; eight Chinese are paid $2.50 a day as. moulders ; twenty-four are paid $1.60 a day. They carry bricks and put the clay in. the mill and temper it. Thirty-nine are paid $1.50 a day; they wheel in the brick and, put the clay in the car. I have been forty years engaged in brickmaking ; in Montreal since 1870, and in Vancouver for thirteen years. At the time I came here the Chinamen made all the bricks, the same as at present. The white men drove horses and carts, &c. Q. What is the reason white men are not employed ?—A. I asked to employ one- white man who is a good moulder, and the boss told me not to employ him; that it would not do to break the gang. The Chinese would not work with a white man. It takes four white men to make a set. That is the excuse the brickmakers give. Q. Why?—A. Because they reckon the Chinese would not agree with white moulders. I did not have the privilege of hiring white men as moulders. Any Chinaman I did not like I could let him go, but I had to put another Chinaman in his place. Good white men used to come here; they would ask for work in the brick yard but they could not get it. They would walk away again. There are some here, good practical brickmakers, but they cannot get work. White men are as good and steady as Chinese. Q. What is the cause of Chinese being employed ?—A. There are a certain number of Chinese employed at low priced labour. The employers say it is better to have all- Chinese employed with the moulders, because they work better with each other. The whites are only employed for driving carts. Q. What is the effect of the presence of the Chinese here upon the brickmaking business as far as white men are concerned 1—A. Well, white men cannot get employment- and they have gone away. Q. What has been the effect ?—A. The whole of the brickmaking now is in the hands of the Chinese. Q. Is there any other point in connection with the trade you think it important to mention?—A. There is one reason the Chinese are employed in brickmaking. They work for lower wages; and in addition to that, for a three-gang yard it takes about twenty-two Chinese, and they build them little huts in the brick yards and they have no fuel to buy, whereas a white man has to pay $12 a month for rent and $4 a month for fuel. The Chinaman has a hut in the brick yard that he gets free. Q. I suppose comparatively few of them have families ?—A. None of them have families here. Q. Do you think it likely that within a reasonable time they will adopt our habits or will they live as a distinct race ?—A. I think they will live as a distinct race. One intelhgent Chinaman told me they liked to live here and make money until they were about fifty years old, and then go back to live in China; that all Chinamen wanted to get back to China, and he told me he was going back. Q. There has not been much profit in brickmaking recently ?—A. Not until last summer. They have entered into a combination which has raised the price of brick up to a fair figure. 188 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. Have they raised the wages ?—A. Oh, no. A moulder in Ontario will command nearly double the wages of an ordinary man. v Work in this line is not steady all the year around. Chinamen's wages amount to about $36 a month. Their board averages about $8 a month. Say the white man gets $50 a month and pays $20 a month for board ; that would leave him $30. Both of them have the same amount of spare cash, supposing them to be single men. A white man earning $50 a month will just have about enough to get along. Rents are high here. In London, Ontario, I used to rent a house with an acre of land attached for $5 or $6 a month, and I never paid less than $12 a month here for a small house and small lot. I favour a head tax to prevent any more coining in. My objection to the Chinese is because of their interference with white labour here. Q. Supposing there were no Chinese here, would there be any difficulty in getting white moulders at the same price ?—A. No, sir; we got them in Winnipeg at the time of the boom. This is a better climate than Winnipeg. Q. Could this industry exist if there were no Chinese in this country ?—A. Yes, it ■exists in other parts. There have been too many competing in the brickmaking trade here. Sam Lum said : I worked in a brick yard carting clay. I get $2 a day. I drive a horse. I have worked at that fourteen years. I got only $1.50 in winter. I only have •about six months' work in the year ; sometimes we get two days in the week, sometimes none at all. My wife and children are in China, a boy and girl. I have never been back. I send $30 or $40 home every year. I board myself at the brick yard. I pay no rent; there is a house in the brick yard, 20 by 30 or 40 feet. At present there are only three or four living there, but sometimes twenty live there. It costs me $15 or $16 a month to live, $2 for rice, $8 for meat, $9 for beer and whiskey. Lum Chow, brickmaker, has been in the country twenty years, speaks through an interpreter, earns $2 a day as a moulder. Q. What does it cost you to live ?—A. My meals alone cost me from $14 to $15 a month beside drink. Q. How much for drink ?—A. During the summer when I am working each day it costs me about 35 or 40 cents a day for drinking, but in the winter of course I do not .have any money to spend on that. I have worked in a brick yard for fifteen years. Only work four or five months iiLi the year. George Gill, brickmakers' foreman and manager, Vancouver, says : I have been in most of the brick yards on the mainland. At New Westminster some years back, four or five years ago, there were sixty or seventy Chinamen employed, three white men and two boys ; no Japanese The Chinese work by contract. At Roches Point, six miles from Vancouver, twenty-four Chinamen are employed and three white men ; at Port Haney, twenty-four Chinamen and four white men; Westminster Road, twenty-three to twenty-four Chinese and four white men ; at Port Moody, ten years ago there were twenty-four Chinese and four white men. I heard they employed Japanese last year ; •at Bo wen Island, twenty-two to twenty-four Chinese, four white men ; at«Kamloops, all white men, twelve men employed. The labour work is in the hands of the Chinese. The Chinese also assist in firing. I was foreman in each of these places, except Westminster Road, for twelve years since. If I am offered more wages in another place I go. There are made from ten to twelve million bricks on the island and on the mainland. Some bricks are imported from the American side and from Manitoba. The season lasts about six months. I don't think they made much money,—too many in the business. The brick business could be carried on without Chinamen. The Chinese contractors contract to make bricks at prices at which no white man could touch it. The contractor is generally a Chinese merchant. The brickyard owner comes to a Chinese merchant and the merchant contracts with him, and signs an agreement and becomes responsible for the fulfilment of the contract. He gets a commission on the supplies to the men. He gets paid in the first place for getting these men together, and one of the conditions of their employment, is that they deal with him, take all the supplies from his stores. I am in a position to prove this. For instance, a case at the L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 189 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Westminster road yard, it was found that the amount the Chinese contractor had paid out in wages exceeded the sum he had made under the contract by about $300, and yet he was well satisfied at the result. For every sack of rice he supplied to the camp he charged $1 more than the retail price of rice in Vancouver. On every pound of pork he supplied he had a profit of about 7 cents a pound. He bought the pork in the wholesale market at from 10 to 12 cents per pound, and sold it to the camp at 19 cents a pound, and he sold to those men about 200 pounds of pork every 5 days. He supplied about 70 sacks during the month, which was equal to a profit to him of from $60 to $70 per month, and every week he cleared a profit of $20 on pork. He supplied tobacco, opium and intoxicating liquors imported from China, and he did not pay a license for selling it. He allowed gambling in the camp and charged each man 10 cents per month for the privilege of gambling. I do not know exactly what his profit was on the liquor and the opium and the gambling, but he expressed himself to me as satisfied, although on the face of it he had lost $300 on the contract. I may say that he bought a wife at the close of the season, a Chinese girl in Victoria, and paid $500 for her. At Port Haney, year before last, 1899, there were several contractors. A merchant here became responsible for the contract. The same thing was carried on, gambling, drinking, and one of the contractors bought a female slave for immoral purposes. There were hundreds who came (white men) seeking employment and were refused. I told them there was no show. They would want $2 a day perhaps. If white men were employed exclusively in the brickyards, it would cost $1 a thousand more to produce them. Abel Wemkem, a German, brickmaker, Vancouver, said : I employed last summer 43 men in the yard ; 39 Japanese, four or five white men; no Chinese. I started in with white men. I changed in the fall to Chinamen. Next year I had machines and all white men. I could not compete against other brickyards. I paid white men from $2.50 to $3 a day. I would prefer to employ white men if other yards did. Under present circumstances I would say exclusion, both as to Chinese and Japanese. Tho labour is cheap. Someone makes a good deal, and then too many go into it. The business is bad. The town»would be more prosperous if all were white. It would cost $1 per thousand more. If all were white men here, we would have more on the farms and it would lessen the cost of living. | |Where I have been cheap labour meant poor wages and poor times. SUMMARY. Chinese are now exclusively employed on the coast in brickmaking, the white men having been gradually driven out. The foremen and teamsters are whites. At Kam- loops only whites are employed. The work is chiefly done through Chinese contractors, who pay the men and supply them with provisions. Wages range from $9 to $15 a week. The white foreman is paid $2.50 a day the year round. The following shows the relative numbers that have been employed in different yards at the time the witness was acquainted with them, within the last few years : Place. Whites. Chinese. Victoria 14 71 New Westminster 5 60 Roches Point » 3 24 Port Haney 4 22-24 Westminster Road 4 23-34 Port Moody 4 24 Bowen Island 4 22-24 Kamloops 12 0 The Chinese usually live in shacks on the brickyard furnished by the employer free> living together after their usual fashion, under conditions that are degrading, where 190 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 -white men could not decently live ; and at a cost that would not support a white man •even without a family. The work lasts about six months in the year. Two foremen who had had a very long experience and commended themselves to us ;as entirely credible witnesses, declared that there were enough white men to do the work, but they were no longer employed, and white men making application for work were constantly refused. One foreman put it hundreds apply and are turned away. We desire to make it clear why this is so, and to explain the fact why the white' -man cannot compete with a Chinaman. The reason is that the work is done through Chinese contractors or bosses who engage only Chinamen. The Chinamen work in ^gangs and a gang would not work as well if composed partly of whites and partly of Chinamen. The Chinaman does not want the white man, -and the white man would .almost rather starve than work in a gang of Chinamen. This, coupled with the fact that they work for less and hire in a manner which a white man will not and ought not to accept as his standard of living, fully accounts for the fact why, where they have once obtained a footing, they stay. A further reason may be found in the statement of a foreman of many years' I •experience,—that the Chinese contractor will take a contract for making brick at so .much per thousand, at a price in which there is no profit, even by employing Chinese labour; that he makes his profits on his supplies, which are said to be sold to the Chinese workmen at extravagant figures; that in one case, where at the end of the season there was an apparent loss of $300 on the contract, the contractor expressed himself as well satisfied having regard to his profits made on the supplies. To hope that the white man will be able to compete and to finally drive them out •of these employments where they have once obtained a footing, is the sheerest nonsense. The only cases where they have given place to others is where the Japanese have been able to outbid them. # One of the most successful employers in this business is in favour of no restriction upon labour. He approves of a duty on brick. The foremen engaged in the business :are in favour of exclusion. §lill fe-ftJ IV. LIME-BURNING. , This work is largely done by the Chinese. In one lime kiln near Victoria the fore^ man stated that nine men are employed, seven of whom are Chinese. The wages paid to Chinese are from $1.00 to $1.25 per day. White men receive $45 to $50 per month. John S. Annet, foreman at Raymond & Sons' lime kiln at Esquimalt, says: 'There are six or seven Chinese and two white men engaged at this lime kiln. The wages for Chinese are from $1.10 to $1.25 a day. I am paid $50 a month, and my assistant I believe $45 a month. The Saanich Company closed down in April 1894, because they could not compete with the other lime kilns where Chinese were employed. 1 do not know how many are employed at Texada Island. Where I am the white man is not employed steadily. For instance, I was discharged last September and the Chinese were kept on. All last season and a part of the season before, Chinese were employed as teamsters. Now it is considered necessary to have a white man to overlook the operations of the Chinese. They have nearly a monopoly of all business here in labour. 'There are only two lime kilns in operation at the present time that I am acquainted with. The proportion is two white men to eight Chinese. The general work is done by the Chinese. I have been working there four years. Previous to that all Chinese were employed. There is no such thing as Sunday observance by the Chinese. The Chinese would be very much put out if he hadn't a chance to work on Sunday. V. FRUIT CANNING. Fruit canning has reached but small proportions as yet in British Columbia. Walter Taylor, of Vancouver, manager of the British Columbia Canning Company, ■says : We employ from twenty to thirty hands, men, women, girls and boys, for three months in the year, if the fruit crop is a good one. We employ no Chinese or Japanese. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 191 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 We sometimes find difficulty in getting sufficient numbers, for our work, of girls and women. We pay boys from $25 to $35 a month ; for men $60 a month up. They board themselves at that; and women and girls from 75 cents to $1 a day. These wages are paid for such work as requires a little training. It is nine years since I employed Chinese. I employed Chinese for a couple of months one year during the fruit season. I would not have employed them, only I could not get anyone else; at least, I could not get enough of white labour to keep up the work. Since that I have been able to get all the white labour I wanted, until last year, when I had to get in a few Japanese for a few days. I employed five Japanese at $1 a day. Q. Did you find any advantage in the employment of Japanese over white labour? ■—A. No, I would sooner have the white labour than the Japanese. Q. Why did you employ Japanese; was it because their labour was cheaper ?— A. It was not any saving in the way of wages at all. It was the same to me for the time being, and the circumstances were such that I could not help myself. I only had these Japanese on the place for two days and a half. As soon as I got through with the little rush I sent them off. I have resided on the coast eleven years. I came from Ontario. I think we have too many Chinese and Japanese here now. We have certainly got enough to supply all our present wants. I do not think we are at all prepared to do without the Chinese at once in this country. I do not think we could get along without them if they went away now, for a time anyhow. I think with the number we have here now the labour market would be supplied for years. I am in favour of further restriction on Chinese ; $100 is no good; I think they will come in as freely under $100 as $50. I think it ought to be higher than that. There are two classes of industry in every country. Where industries employ labour all the year round they can manage to get their labour and keep it; at least it should be so. But take the canning business, where it only lasts for three months of the year, you cannot import labour for the purpose; men cannot come here and live upon what they earn in three months' work. I would not like to see development impeded; I would sooner see the Chinaman come in than that. Develop by white people if possible but if that be not possible I want to see it developed by whatever labour you can get. VI. SUGAR REFINING. It was stated by some of the witnesses that if Chinese were not employed there would be a great difficulty in obtaining sufficient unskilled labour, but Mr. Benjamin F. Rogers, manager of the sugar refinery at Vancouver, has not found it so. He stated that he had resided eleven years in Vancouver, and during that time the company had not employed* any Chinese or Japanese labour. They employ from seventy to one hundred men, and of these 97 per cent is unskilled labour. Lowest wage paid is 20 cents per hour. Tn their contract with the city the company agreed not to employ Chinese labour. This does not apply to the Japanese, but still they did not employ Japanese labour. He stated that the company had no difficulty in getting unskilled labour, and no difficulty in keeping up the supply; sometimes there was a difficulty in getting labour for loading and unloading vessels. This witness further said: The wages I pay are a little higher than the current wages. I never take back a man that leaves me if he is the last man on earth, so they generally stay with me. The city gave me a free site and exemption from taxation for fifteen years, and free water for a certain period of time. I only know of once or twice of an over-supply of labour in this province. For a long time I have never seen an over-supply of white labour, but I have always been able to get all the labour I wished for. Because of the over-supply of labour in 1889 there were hard times. That was local. Last winter the over-supply was of common labour. 192 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 I would rather employ a white man with a family than a man without a family. The Japanese I think do the work quite as well, though. To my mind it would not be a kindness to take a man on and perhaps he would move his family here and after a short time shut him out. The Japanese are all unmarried men and it does not matter so much to them. We get our sugar material from Cuba, Java, Queensland, South America, North- America, Mauritius, Hayti, and other places. Our strongest competitors are on one side in China and on the other side in Montreal. There is a duty on refined sugar and raw sugar according to its polarization. I get my raw sugar from China. I ship sugar as far east as Manitoba. I can compete with Montreal. We export no sugar. There is no sugar imported from China. In the use of sugar the Indians come first, the white people come next, and I should say the Chinese and Japanese use something like two-thirds of the other. VII CORDWOOD CUTTING, 'Si James Edward Painter, a wood dealer in Victoria, indicates the present method of cutting cordwood: I go to a Chinese contractor to get say two thousand cords at 75 cents, for large timber, and 85 cents for small. He has seven Chinamen. He gives them the full price and makes his profits out of the provisions which he supplies them. I reckon they can put up one and a half cords per day, and make something like $1.20 a day. There are seven or eight wood-dealers in Victoria. All employ Chinese but one who employs Japanese to cut the cordwood. I do not think we could get white men. There was only one case of a white man coming to me and asking to cut timber. I never advertised for white men. They knew the job was open. I would perfer white men if they stayed at it. About half the wood is sold to white people and half to Chinese. I think a $1001] tax is sufficient to keep the inferior labour of Chinese out. I think they are a benefit in opening up new industries; benefit to the canneries, coal mines, and in getting out cordwood. There are 20,000 cords of wood used in the city in a year, cut principally by Chinese. With white men the price would have to be increased to $3.50 a cord for 4-ft. wood to get it out. It would have to be done by cheap labour because a ton of coal will go as cheap as two cords of wood, and a ton of coal costs $6.50. Some people prefer wood to coal. In 1881 I was firing on a Grand Trunk wood train. They employed coloured men at from 90 cents to $1 a day. In all countries they have to have cheap labour. I sell cordwood now for $3.50. John Murray, Provincial Timber Agent, Vancouver, said : I think most of the wood on the lower mainland, or at least a great portion of it, is cut bg Chinese and Japanese. The wood business is mostly done by Chinese, and the shingle bolt business is mostly done by Japanese. Getting out cordwood and shingle bolts is all by contract. You will find a great many white people in and around the city of Vancouver who are willing to work but cannot get work, because of the presence of Chinese and Japanese, who are filling positions that would be better filled by white people, citizens of the country. Senator Reid, of Quesnell, in the course of his evidence stated that he employed about ten Chinese in cutting cordwood, finding them more satisfactory than whites in fulfilling their contracts. Note—In recent years at all events the Japanese have largely superseded the Chinese in wood cutting. How 'Chinese and Japanese cordwood cutters affect the farmers has been dealt with under land clearing and agriculture. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION. 193 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 VIII RAILWAYS, The Nanaimo and Esquimalt Railway Company employ from one hundred and fifty to two hundred white men, and from forty to sixty Chinese on their railway. The Chinese are employed as section men and on other work, such as grading roads, clearing right-of-way and quarrying stone. They are paid $1 a day. Joseph Hunter, the manager of the road, said: We find them fairly good servants —depends on the character of the work. Where soft excavation, where no picking and no roots, they are fairly good. I would like to say, in this work, equal to a white man. For the heavier work a Chinaman does not compare with the white man. I have known Chinese drill strikers in rock work—first-class strikers, equal to anyone—but this is rare. They cannot be compared to white labour, man for man. They lack strength and ingenuity of grappling with difficulties. The white labourer is paid from $2, $2.25 and $2.50 per day. The Chinese are mostly section men. The exclusion of Chinese would not affect the railways. If you were to exclude them all to-morrow you will be able to get a railway trip to Nanaimo as well as you can to-day. I hardly like to express any opinion as to restriction. I suppose further restriction would diminish the influx of Chinese, and I have not taken any sides on the question. I should like to see white labour become prominent. I think the country would be better without Chinese, if it were possible to do without them. There does not seem to be much scarcity of Chinese at present. I think the exclusion of Chinese would tend to raise wages. I do not think any increased restriction or prohibition would materially affect the various trades and callings here, or commercial interests; that is providing those who are here are allowed to remain. It might tend to raise wages, but we could stand that. We have got a good country here. If I were a labourer I would prefer to go to a countcy where there are no Chinese. There may be compensating advantages to some corporations requiring construction work. The tendency is to prevent white labour coming in. If no more of the labouring Chinese were allowed to come in naturally that would increase the number of white men coining here! There is no tendency of the Chinese endeavouring to reach our standard or mode of living. They are conservative and wedded to their own manners and customs. Looking at it aside from any particular interest, I do not think it in the interest of any particular country that that class of people should be allowed to come here. I think the reasons are very plain. They are a very undesirable class in many ways. They are behind even the lower class of white labour. They come into competition with white labour in lines where it is not desirable they should come into competition with them. I would think it a menace to the country if it were found as a fact, that a race such as the Chinese was gradually encroaching on the various avocations, trades and callings that go to make up the foundation of the community. I have already said the country would be better without the Chinese, if the conditions were such that we could get along without them; but I am not prepared to say that the conditions at present are such. I have already given my opinion and I repeat it; I believe this would be a better country without them. I do not want to moralize too much on that point. If we could get along without them the country would be better off I believe. Whether we could do so or not I am not prepared to say. Q. Has the standard of wages for white men in the country been maintained by reason of the Chinese doing the menial work ?—A. Well, I do not think that has very much effect on the wages of white people. Richard Marpole, Vancouver, the general superintendent of the Pacific division of the Canadian Pacific Railway, stated: That of 4,693, thetotal number employed on thisdivision, 99 are Chinese, 70 Japanese, and the rest white. Last year, however, over 300 Japanese were employed for a short period on construction of snow sheds in the mountains ; 19 Chinese are employed in Vancouver and New Westminster in coopering and on the wharf. They work in connection with the steamship line. In the local offices there are two. At New Westminster there are five employed around the freight house from 54—13 194 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 r time to time. In the shops here (Vancouver) there is a standing gang of twelve who act as cleaners. That is the total number of Chinese we have here,—nineteen in all I think. There are two gangs of forty men each engaged in extra work, shovelling snow and anything else required to be done in the mountains. I think the gangs are equal, but one gang may have fifty men in it. There are eighty altogether. Then we have thirty Chinese on the section. The section bosses are white men, oa*nd#~'nq^ The average pay is $1 and $1.10 for Chinese and Japanese section men. The wages of the white man is $1.25 to $1.50 a day. That depends on the locality. The Kootenay represents about one-third of the mileage, and the employees are about in the same proportion with the exception that there are no oriental labourers south of Revelstoke. The major portion of the aliens in this province were employed by Mr. Onderdonk during the construction of the railway. He employed Chinese almost exclusively on the work of construction for the Canadian Pacific Railway. When the line was taken over we found a great many Chinese employed on the road, particularly between here and Revelstoke. Roughly speaking it would be in 1886. At the time we opened the road about six hundred Chinamen were employed between here and Revelstoke. That was in the spring of 1886. They were gradually changed to what you see now, as white men could be secured. The reason of the change from Chinamen to white men is, white labour is superior to Chinese labour, because of the strength and efficiency of a white man in work which the Chinese is not adapted for. I would prefer white men on the line every time if you can get them. If handled by white foremen I do not think it matters much as to safety. The cost to the company is ultimately about the same. That is to say, we employ more Chinamen in the section than we employ white men for the same distance. The section foremen generally remain from year to year, and probably one or two of the men in each gang remain with them. All the section foremen have permanent homes. The number of men under the section foremen varies from two to eight, according to the location. I do not think more than one in each gang would be married. The married element, except the foremen, is a scarce element in British Columbia. They are all transients mostly. This side of Kamloops we have a number of Indian labourers. They may be considered married as they have the concomitant. The foremen are married. They live in houses provided by the company. The section foreman hires the men and he arranges for their board. Some of them batch, but generally the section foremen boards them himself. That is a matter entirely within the men's own control. The result is, as far as the Chinese are concerned, they have gradually been eliminated from the time we took over the road, from a desire to have white men and because white men were more plentiful in 1886 and 1887 and the spring of 1888, because we brought thousands of men here to assist in the construction of snow-sheds. I have been here twenty years in August. Previous to that I had charge of the Lake Superior section, and I brought most of the old gangs of men with me. That is one reason why the gangs here are mostly white. I brought nearly all the old foremen with me. We had plenty of white men immediately after the construction of the snow- sheds, in which between three and four thousand were engaged. We had no Japanese until last year. Last year is the first year we employed them in any numbers. The summer before last is the first year we employed any number of Japanese. The occasion of that was the scarcity of white labour. The greatest number of Japanese we employed last year on the snow-sheds was three thousand altogether. We engaged them in the spring, May or June. They were sent to the work from time to time as required. They would only be sent when we could not get other labour. We attempted to get men from the east, from Ottawa, through an agent there. We secured quite a large number. The most of them went on. to Mr. Mackenzie's road at Rainy River at our expense. I never call Italians white labour. They get from $1.40 a day and upwards. The Italians are not equal to Canadians, white men, when you can get them. The Japanese labour in my opinion is fully equal to the Italian, and in some cases superior to any of the labour that comes along here, that you may call Canadian labour. At some kinds of work they are as good as whites, because the white labour ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 195 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 that comes here is generally of a roving disposition. White labourers as a rule stay with us until they get something better. It is a question of wages and locality. They are not regular labourers. On many of the sections the men have to live away from civilization, and that has a good deal to do with it. The white man also has a desire to spend his money in some town. Q. I suppose higher wages are paid to better men; that better men cost more money ?—A. It would have to be so high we could not afford to pay it. Wages are paid for work done, and if higher wages had to be paid it would be impossible for any operating men to work. Q. Your rates would provide for that?—A. I do not know they would. We reduced our rates the other day twenty per cent. The freight just now is hauled at very low rates, especially to Skagway and other places. The expert labour is paid higher on this division than any railway to the south of us. That is a broad statement to make. Railways on the south are employing from 5,000 to 6,000 Japanese. We are only employing 70. That is not generally known in Canada, but it is so. This company is not interested in employing a single oriental apart from where we cannot get white labour. We prefer white labour if we can get white labour that will stay with us. That is our difficulty. I may say we are bound to depend a good deal on Chinese and Japanese and Indians for section work. The Indians number about 100. We experience some difficulty with them in the fishing season. They leave us for a time to go fishing. I think highly of the Indians as workmen on the sections. When I speak of snow-shed work done by the Japanese I mean pick and shovel work. They are not engaged in carpenter work or any work of that kind. I do not care to express any opinion as to whether Chinese immigration should be restricted or not; nor as to the Japanese. There is certain work connected with the railway where very light men can do as much as heavy men, but when it comes to heavy work I should say two white men would do as much in a day as three Chinese or Japanese, but a great portion of the work on the railway a Japanese can do as well as a white man. A white man on an average would be worth 25 cents a day more on section work. We have been trying to induce white labour to come here, and we have imported 3,000 men in the last eight years, and I guarantee there is not 10 per cent of them in the country to-day. The construction of the Columbia and Western was all. done by white labour at high rates. It is a pretty broad question as to what proportion employed in the construction work settle down, take farms or settle in the neighbourhood of the railway. I do not believe that over one per cent of the white labour settled in the Kootenay section. Those men generally follow the railway contractors to other work of a similar kind. They go with the contractors and foremen. The same thing applies to all roads. The Chinese are on the decrease; the Japanese perhaps are stationary, but if I can get white labour I will take all I can get. Q. You mean to tell me the Canadian Pacific Railway cannot be operated by white labour ?—A. This division cannot be. Q. On the road in the east you employ white labour ?—A. Yes, we can get all we want in Montreal and east. Q..Provided you are able to pay better wages?—A. If.we are compelled to pay higher wages than the roads to the south of us we cannot run it. We have to employ some of that class of labour. If the road depended upon the local traffic between Laggan and Vancouver it could not be operated to-day. I do not suppose a white man with a family could live on what we are paying Japanese. We are not encouraging white men with families to cqme here, because we have not got accommodation for them. Unless a white man comes along with the object of becoming a section foreman you cannot get white men for railway work here. If you were to pay very much higher you would still have to depend on transient labour on the remote sections of the road. Italians and Scandinavians are plentiful, but you cannot go to the east and pick up Canadian labour. I can assure you we have done a 54—13i 196 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 ; good deal to get white labour, and we have been unable to secure white labour that will stay with us on the remote sections of the road. In the Kootenay section we employ only white labour, because we can get white labourers there, men drifting from the hills and from the mines ; and there are a great number of men between here and Laggan that we can call on for assistance. If the government in their wisdom had brought in white labour years ago it might have been different to-day. As a matter of fact these miserable J^alians they have brought out now, they are going out. I think it would be well if we had more good white labour brought in here. A great many of those who come here are men not adapted for our work. To Mr. Cassidy : Q. Is it possible that the Canadian Pacific Railway could pay higher wages and recoup itself by taking people from the east here ?—A. Certainly not. Q. Would it be suitable to the country; would that meet with general favour ?— A. I do not think it is possible to raise the rate of wages in any industry in this province to-day. It would be a most impolitic thing to do. Q. Do you think it would be advantageous to Canada, or the reverse, that your road should pursue a policy of that kind ?—A. Certainly not. EXHIBIT 47. Approximate statement of white men employed during the year 1900 in British Columbia on the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. Trainmen Enginemen Mechanical department Section foremen. Watchmen ., Sectionmen. Extra gangs Bridgemen (including foremen). Station agents, operators and clerks. General office<6lerks^ ;;£p Officials C. & K. steamer employees Porters and checkers. Total Average Rates Earned. Conductors, $125 per month. Brakesmen, $90 n Engineers, $150 « Firemen, $90 „ Foreman, $125 | Leading hands, $3.50 per day. Fitters, $3 „ Turners, $3 „ Boilermakers, $3 jjj Painters, $2.50 and $3 ., Carpenters, $2.50 u Car repairers, $1.70 jjj $55 to $60 per month. Yard foremen, $70 per month. At $40 to $45 per month. At $1.25 to $1.50 per day. Foremen, $2.50 to $3.50 per day. Men, $1.40 to $1.75 per day. Foremen, $3 to $3.50 per day. Men, $2 to $2.50 per day (average $2.25 p. day). Inspectors, $125 per month. $55 to $125 per month. $20 to $90 per month (average about $60). Masters, $100 to $125 per month. Engineers, $90 per month. Deckhands, $35 per month and board. 20c. to 25c. per hour. Cooks, $60 per month. W. S. Newman, Revelstoke, roadmaster on the C. P. R. from Revelstoke to Donald, and on the Arrow Head Branch, a total length of 108 miles, said : At the present time- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 197 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I have sixty-seven whites, eight Japanese, no Chinese, on the section. In the winter time I have four Japanese and the rest are whites on section work. That was last winter, and some of the whites were worse than the Japanese. We have 175 extra men just now ; thirty-two of them are Chinese and twenty-eight Japanese. The Chinese get $1 a day, the Japanese, $1.10. White section men get $1.25. The extra gang of whites get $1.40 and board and $1.60, according to the class of labour they are put at. The whites are made up of Italians, Hungarians, Polanders, Swedes and some Philanders. We have about twelve foremen. They are English, Irish and Scotch. The same proportion of Chinese and Japanese are on the section from Revelstoke to Kamloops. There are more Finns there. No other Chinese or Japanese are employed by the C. P. R. in this district that I know of. If we cannot get white men when we want them, we have to get Chinese and Japanese to make up the gangs required. Last summer was the first time I used Chinese and Japanese on section work. In winter time the force is cut down, and I keep all the white labour on. In the summer when we go to make up the gangs for extra work we have to employ Japanese. The summer before last Chinese were employed in shed-building. I have had Chinese here fifteen years working on extra work. The Hungarians and Italians that are here I do not call really white men. They are a very poor class of workmen generally. Swedes and Finlanders are about as good as the Britishers we get here. They are not as difficult to keep here as British people at the wages paid. It will take five Chinese and Japanese anyway to do the work of three Britishers. Some Italians have brought their families here and are making fairly good settlers. The Swedes settle, especially the section foremen. If Britishers were paid the same rate of wages as is paid for other work here, I think they would settle down and work here. Wages equal to the pay of skilled white labour, that would be from $1.75 to $2.50 a day. The company furnishes the married men with houses. The class of single men we have won't live in a boarding house, and do their own cooking. They won't pay the high charge of boarding house keepers. That charge would be $4.25 a week. We have three boarding houses with Chinese cooks. They are paid $30 a month and board. I have tried white men as cooks, and as a general thing when we wanted them they were drunk. They were getting $50 a month. That was during the time of construction. I have tried to get them since, but they won't stop here. I favour the exclusion of Chinese and Japanese. I favour the immigration of white men. Men employed by the company are free to state their opinions. This is a pretty difficult -division to work on account of the snow-slides. Hungarians and Italians are not in favour with the British labourer here. They come here and earn money and send it home, instead of spending it in the country, that is about the only reason. Not more than one in one hundred of the Italians that come here to work on the railway take out citizen papers. The Japanese draw their money the same as any other man, individually ; they all do but the Chinese, and they are paid in Vancouver to the Chinese company. The company furnish them from their wages. with provisions, and the amount is deducted SUMMARY. There are 4,693 men employed on the Pacific division of the Canadian Pacific Rail way, of whom only 99 are Chinese, 70 Japanese, and 4,524 whites, including 341 inland steamer employees. The superintendent of this division stated that the Chinese have been gradually eliminated. It will thus be seen that on the Canadian Pacific Railway the Chinese represent only about two per cent of the total number of men employed. Prom 150 to 200 white men are employed on the Nanaimo and Esquimalt Railway, and from 40 to 60 Chinese. The general manager of this road stated that there was no scarcity of Chinese. Your Commissioners think it clear that having regard to the small number of Chinese employed on the railways, it cannot be said that they are to any considerable extent dependent upon this class of labour for their successful operation, but in any case the supply is ample. 198 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 IX. -THE CANADIAN PACIFIC STEAMSHIP COMPANY. W J. H. Watson, boiler-maker by trade, now customs officer at Vancouver, stated that he had worked on the steamships, and spoke from personal knowledge. He said : It is not only in Canada that we have to compete. We have a line of steamers here drawing a large subsidy from the Dominion Government, which gets all the repairs done in Hong Kong, and these boats bring this Mongolian labour into British Columbia to compete against white workers here. If they got the repairs done here it would mean an increase of one hundred mechanics at least in this city. It would mean twelve more men of my own trade at $3 a day— $864 per month. 18 mechanics at $3 a day $1,296 per month. 6 shipwrights at $4 a day „ 576 Fj 6 caulkers at $4 a day 576 $ 2 coppersmiths at $4 a day 192 | 6 blacksmiths at $3 a day 432 n 25 painters at $3 a day 1,800 | 25 riggers and specialists 1,800 | $7,536 This does not include Chinese firemen or coal passers, mess boys and greasers. Add all these and it would mean from $11,000 to $12,000 a month, which is now spent in Hong Kong. I worked on the boat and know it. I have seen as many as five or six hundred Chinese employed. A boilermaker in Hong Kong gets 50 cents a day. One white man would do the work of three or four of these Chinamen. The Australian boats employ nothing but white help. It is done at Sydney. They look out to carry their work to their own port. The Canadian Pacific Railway engage their men by contractors, as they do here, and he rakes so much off. The Australians get their repairs in their own port. The Americans get their repairs there (Hong Kong), but they have no subsidy. Jin Kanga said : I worked on the Empress of China. I joined in 1894. Just' one Japanese besides me on the ship. Chinese do the bedroom work and the saloon work. There is one white cook and one Chinese cook. Richard Marpole, general superintendent of the Pacific Division of the Canadian Pacific Railway, stated that he could give no information relating to the steamship company. Q. Can you speak of the extent of the trade that exists at present in Canada and China and Japan ?—A. No, I can not. Q. Can you speak of its possibilities ?—A. The possibilities are immense. Take our steamer service and to-day we have two extra steamers in commission. The trade is so increasing that it will necessitate an increase of the number of our ships, which I hope to see shortly. The fact that Mr. Hill, of the Great Northern, is going to put on much larger steamers as freight carriers is an answer to that question. Q. Is the traffic reciprocal ?—A. I think so to a great extent. I am taking it as a whole, Japanese and Chinese. I have'no means of separating it. Q. Would you care to say whether you think a restriction of the immigration of Chinese and Japanese to our shores would interfere with the traffic to China and Japan ?—A. Well, I would fancy it would. That is my own opinion, not an official one. The above evidence of J. H. Watson having been submitted to the Canadian Pacific Steamship Company, they furnished the following statements under oath :— Arthur Piers, of the city of Montreal, the general superintendent of the steamships of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, states that the number of Chinese employed on the company's fleet of steamships running between Vancouver and Hong Kong, namely, the Empress of India, the Empress of Japan, the Empress of China, Tartar and the Athenian, is about the number of 570. That I do not know how many Chinese are ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 employed on repairs to the said fleet in Hong Kong, or the wages paid per day for the different classes of mechanics, or the total per year, because the Chinese employed there on repairs to the company's fleet are not employed by the company, the said repairs being done for the company by the Hong Kong and Whampoa Dock Company, and other contractors. The Chinese servants are employed by the company on the said fleet, because reliable, experienced and qualified Europeans could not be kept available in sufficient number for a first-class passenger service; and furthermore, ten years' experience has shown that the Chinaman is the very best ship servant in the world. The Chinese firemen and trimmers are employed by the company on said fleet, because first, steady experienced and reliable European firemen and trimmers could not be kept available in sufficient number; and second, if they were available they could not stand the high temperature in which our men have to work on the China and Japan coast, in the stoke holes and engine room. Robert Kerr, of the city of Montreal, Passenger Traffic Manager of the Canadian Pacific Kailway Company, states : 1. That I have caused an examination to be made of copies of the manifests of the Company's steamers running between Vancouver and Chinese and Japanese ports since the year 1891 (inclusive) to September 30, 1901, to ascertain the number of Chinese and Japanese emigrants landed in British Columbia by the Company's steamers in each year during that period and find as follows : 2. That during the year 1891, the year 1892 from January 1 to April 19 and the years 1895, 1896 and 1897, no separate record was kept of those Chinese landed in British Columbia by the Company's steamers who had previously lived in Canada and were then returning to Canada : 3. That during the respective periods mentioned in paragraph two there were landed in British Columbia, the following number of Chinese : 1891 2,232 1892 (To April, 19) \ 1,150 1895 , 1,603 1896 1,854 1897 1,793 Total : 8,632 4. That during the following periods, namely, the year 1892, from April 20 to December 31, the years, 1893, 1894, 1898, 1899, 1900 and the year 1901 from January 1, to September 30j there were landed in British Columbia by the Company's steamers the following numbers of Chinese, who, on being landed, paid the duty or tax imposed by Statute and also those who were returning to Canada and had the statutory certificate for that purpose, that is to say:— Paid tax. Held certificate. 1892 Apl. 20 to Dec. 31 961 1893 1,366 1894 1,086 1898 1,705 1899 . 1,583 1900 1,600 1901 to Sept. 30 1,113 Total 9,414 1,036 135 197 546 713 635 512 3,774 sSSS m 200 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 5.' That the rate per capita from Hong Kong or Shanghai to Vancouver or Victoria, has been, since 1891, as follows : ^H 1891 ! $ 60 1892 to Apl. 19 65 1892 Apl. 20, to Dec. 31 • 75 1893.... 90 1894 to 1897 105 1898 to 1901 j 110 6. That no record was kept of the Japanese landed in British Columbia by the Company's steamships prior to the month of May, 1893. Since May, 1893 there have been landed in British Columbia by the Company the following numbers of Japanese :— 1893 May to Dec 294 1894 , j 382 1895 | 225 1896 298 1897 11 1898 f|. 819 1899 1,084 1900 214 1901 to Sept. 30 22 Total 3,349 7. That the rate per capita from Yokohama to Vancouver or Victoria since 1893 has been as follows : the year 1893, $45; since 1893, $50. 8. Since 1891 the Company has taken out of Canada by ships leaving Vancouver the following numbers of Chinese and Japanese: Chinese. Japanese. 1891 605 1892 1 ! 579 1893 658 42 1894 \ ... 534 53 1895 775 156 1896 .*. | 637 74 1897 755 119 1898 , 891 99 1899 \ 1,200 150 1900 • 1,027 133 1901 505 123 Total... 8,166 949 9. That the rate from Vancouver to Hong Kong or Shanghai has been $51 since 1891 and from Vancouver to Yokohama has been since 1893 $51. Mr. Piers, the general superintendent, states in reference to the Chinese poll tax : This tax is collected from the Chinese at Hong Kong when they are purchasing their tickets, and we pay over the amount to the Customs Department at Vancouver on arrival of the ship. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 201 SESSIONAL PAPER No 54 The following letter was received by the Commission from the President of the Canadian Pacific Railway Co.:— D. J. Munn, Esq., Queen's Hotel, Toronto. January 17, 1902. Without discussing the Chinese question in the abstract, I think it proper to submit for the consideration of your Commission, some facts to show the bearing that legislation against the admission of Chinese to our country may have on this company's business. We are, as you know, operating a steamship line on the Pacific Ocean, consisting of the three Empresses and the Tartar and Athenian, all of which are engaged in the Chinese and Japanese trade. The advantage to the ports of Victoria and Vancouver of this steamship line will not, I think, be questioned by anybody, and as the larger part of the passenger and freight business, to and from the steamers, passes through the whole length of Canada, involving the expenditure within the country of a considerable amount for the labour, fuel, &c, required for the movement of trains, every portion of Canada is interested to a greater or less extent. During the year just closed our steamers brought from China 4,107 Chinese passengers, and took to China 3,069, our total earnings from this source being $537,000. Of these Chinese passengers 3,338 were Chinese coining to or going from Canada. During the same year we brought 32 Japanese to Canada and took out 296. Our pay roll for oriental labour, on and in connection with the steamships, amounts to about $50,000 per annum, and, on the railway, to about $26,000 per annum, a total of about $76,000 a year, or one-seventh of the amount that we receive for the carriage of Chinese on our steamships. As our total pay-roll amounts to about $14,000,000 per annum, you will observe that the percentage paid for oriental labour is scarcely worthy of notice. In addition to the Chinese passenger business, we carried to China, last year, about 1,200 tons of cotton sheetings, salmon, condensed milk, lumber products, and other articles of freight, constituting Canadian exports, and, in future, when refineries are established in the west, we expect to find a market in China and Japan for a considerable quantity of lead from the mines of British Columbia. It is possible, of course, that the Chinese would not resent unfriendly legislation, and that the exports from Canada to that country might not be interfered with, but, even if this were the case, legislation by Canada that would deprive us of the revenue resulting from the carriage of Chinamen back and forth between this country and their own would so seriously affect the revenue of our Pacific steamships that we could not afford to keep them running. With the advantages enjoyed by the port of San Francisco, it was no easy matter to establish strong competitive ports on the Pacific coast in British Columbia, and it would be a most unfortunate thing if any legislation were passed in Canada calculated to give these ports a serious set back. As the largest employer of labour in Canada, this company asserts most positively, that there is nothing in existing conditions calling for such unreasonable legislation against the Chinese as is demanded in some quarters, and that there is nothing on the horizon to indicate that these conditions are likely to be changed in the near future by reason of the undue importation of Chinese labour. T. G. SHAUGHNESSY, President. SUMMARY. There are employed upon the steamships of the Canadian Pacific Railway running between Vancouver and Hong Kong 570 Chinese. There are also employed upon the said steamships in making repairs at Hong Kong large numbers of Chinese, amounting, it is said, to between five and six hundred. The 202 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 repairs are done through a company at Hong Kong who employ Chinese labour. If these repairs were done in Vancouver it would require at least one hundred mechanics and an expenditure of about $90,000 a year, exclusive of firemen, coal passers, mess boys and greasers, which, if added, would amount to from $11,000 to $12,000 a month. The Australian steamships, according to the evidence, employ exclusively white labour. The reasons giving for the employment of Chinese on the fleet are : First, because reliable, experienced and qualified Europeans could not be kept available in sufficient numbers, and second, that the Chinaman is the very best ship servant in the world. The Chinese firemen and trimmers are employed on the fleet because steady, experienced and reliable European firemen and trimmers could not be kept available in sufficient numbers, and if they were available they could not stand the high temperature in which the men have to work on the Chinese and Japanese coasts in the stoke holes and engine room. The company's steamers have brought 21,820 Chinese to British Columbia since 1891 to September 30, 1901. (This number does not include those brought by other steamships.) Of this number about 6,227 held certificates, leaving 15,593 as new arrivals by the company's steamers, or an average of about 1,500 a year. The fare from Shanghai to Vancouver or Victoria has increased from $60 in 1891 to $110 in 1898, at which it still remains. The return fare from Vancouver to Hong Kong or Shanghai has been $51 since 1891. Eight thousand one hundred and sixty-six Chinese have left Canada for China by the company's ships since 1891. The employment of Chinese upon the steamships of the Canadian Pacific RailwaJB and for their repairs at Hong Kong raises a question of great interest. The steamship line, as a part of the Canadian Pacific Railway, is national in its importance. It is but reasonable that the mechanics and people of British Columbia should desire as far as possible to reap a portion of the benefits which ought naturally to flow from this enterprise. X. RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION. Chinese are not employed in railway construction at the present time, and have not been, with some few unimportant exceptions, since the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Railway charters granted by the Legislature of British Columbia in recent years-: prohibit the employment of Chinese and Japanese in their construction or operation, a number of Acts, containing a clause attaching a penalty of $5 a day for each and every Chinese or Japanese person employed in the construction or operation of the undertaking authorized by the Acts. Contractors much prefer white labour for railway construction. Richard Marpole, general superintendent of the Canadian Pacific Railway, says : Q. You have done a great deal of construction work in the Upper Country ?—A. Yes, that is where we employ white labour to-day. Q. In the construction of the Columbia and Western ?—A. The work on that is all done by white labour at high rates. We are trying to get labour in the east for the extraordinary construction work that we are about entering upon, for which $500,000 has been set apart. James Wilson, Victoria, says : Two years ago I was up in the Kootenay country and had a sub-contract, and I never employed a Chinaman if I could get a white man. We had to send to Chicago, New York, St. Paul and other places to get men, and some of the agencies sent out men here who. had never seen a pick and shovel. I could not get white men at that time in the Kootenays and I had to send east for white men. The riff raff of the American cities were sent to us. They were of no use. I would rather have the Chinese. When they got their first pay they would go on the spree and slip away rather than work. That was on the Robson and Grand Forks Railway. I did not engage Chinese then. I got Italians and some common men I had before. I could ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 203 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 not see any difference between the Italians and the Chinese. Many of them went out of the country. G. A. Carlson, Mayor of Ka^lo, said : I am a railroad contractor, resided here six years. I have a contract for the Lardo extension. We work 150 men now. I will employ about 1,000. I don't intend to employ Chinese or Japanese. I have never done so. Quite a number of men who work on railroads settle down here. I know 75 or 80 who came in on the construction work of the Slocan Kaslo R.R. did so. Last year we paid $2.50 a day. This year I don't intend to pay more than $2 a day. That is good standard wages for railroad work. Board is $5.25 a week. Italians do that class of wprk. Others take contracts and clear $75 or $100 a month, or more. White cooks' pay is $75 a month, helpers $40, $50, and may be $60 a month. Provisions here are very high. Boarding men in camps cost 60 or 65 cents a day per man on an average, we work ten hours a day on railroad work. I would favour restriction. I don't think the railroad labourers want Chinese or Japanese here. I can't bring alien labour here. I don't care much about it. I expect to employ my men in six weeks. At present I can get six or seven hundred unemployed men from the boundary country. They will work for me at $2 a day. I had experience as a contractor before I came here, in Minnesota, Virginia, Illinois, Montana and Washington H. S. Rowe, Mayor of Portland, in answer to Chairman Clute, gave the following information: It will afford me great pleasure to give you all the assistance I can, I will endeavour in a few words to give you what information I have. Prior to the time the Exclusion Law was enacted, the condition of the country here was very different from what it is now, communication with the east was slow, and transportation was high; there were no lines of railway across the continent; here were an isolated community depending altogether on transportation by sea, which was long and costly; we had no communication with the Eastern States of our country, or with your country, except by water. The only place we had to draw labour from was from China ; it was almost impossible to secure white labour at any price. But since that time we have had three or four railways built across the continent; if we had had to depend altogether on white labour, none of the large railways could have been built at the time they were stretched across the continent; we would have to wait for years for railway transportation facilities. I was superintendent of the Oregon Railway and Navigation Co. While that railway was being constructed it was almost impossible to get labour; we had to depend almost altogether on Chinese labour for the construction of that railway, and for the construction of the western part of the Northern Pacific; but that was long before the passing of the Exclusion Act; it was some years before that. Q. About 1886 there first came up an agitation about restriction?—A. Yes, perhaps a little before 1886 there was an agitation for restriction; some of the railways had been completed then; the Northern Pacific and the Union Pacific had been completed, and we could readily get people in from the east. We were constructing in two parts; one part was to make connection with the Union Pacific, and another part was to make connection with the Northern Pacific. At one time we had about 25,000 Chinese employed on construction work; we had two contracts, and between those contracts, as I say, we had about.25,000 Chinese employed on construction work; I do not suppose we had 1,000 white men employed on our contracts. Such was the state of the labour market here that we were glad to get what labour we could in order to fulfil our contracts; but fortunately those conditions have passed away; we have four railways running in here now, and we are well able to do without either Chinese or Japanese abour. This is a white man's country, and we want to keep it a white man's country. 1 XI. ELECTRIC RAILWAYS. The British Columbia Electric Railway Company own and operate the electric railways in Victoria, Vancouver, New Westminster, and between Vancouver and New Westminster, and employ 380 men, all of whom are whites. 204 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Johannus Buntzen, the general manager, says : We employ in Vancouver from 170 to 180 men; in New Westminster from 60 to 70, and in Victoria about 140 ; that wOuld make a total of 370 or 380 men. It varies when there is construction going on. We have never employed Chinese or Japanese. There is no agreement to that effect. I prefer white men. In the position we are, we could hardly employ any other labour but whites. We are entirely dependent on local trade and the patronage and sympathy of the white people. We have no business outside of the cities, and I do not consider it would be proper to employ any but white labour in our business. I cannot say we find any difficulty in getting men. I have always found plenty of men at the wages we pay. I have never had any difficulty in getting a supply. At times we require from one hundred to two hundred extra. XII. FREIGHTING. Ashcroft, on the Canadian Pacific Railway, is the departure point for Cariboo. All supplies have to be freighted in a distance of nearly three hundred miles. The town of Ashcroft contains a population of about four hundred, of whom seventy-five are Chinese. There are a great many Chinese firms in Cariboo, and the Chinese freight almost exclusively for them. Dennis Murphy, of Ashcroft, M.L. A., says : One of the chief industries of Ashcroft is teaming. Of late years that has been encroached upon by Chinese. Last summer three or four horses belonging to Chinese were shot. Since the Union of Teamsters was formed it has checked the number of Chinese, and the feeling is not as bitter as formerly. This teaming is into the Cariboo country. The feeling may be as keen, but there is no animosity as before. The Chinese are not good teamsters, but about one-sixth of the teams on the road are Chinese teams. There are a great many Chinese firms in Cariboo and the Chinese teamsters haul almost exclusively for them. Before the Union was formed freight was ruinously low. The Chinese run only in the summer, and did not feed their horses. They let them feed out and then in winter they would turn them out. There used to be one hundred teams. There are now sixty or seventy-five. There is no large freighting outfit. Each owns his own outfit. Senator Reid says : A great deal of freighting is done from Ashcroft by white freighters and some Chinese as well. Last year there was about ten per cent of Chinese freighters. There was some difficulty. The trouble was there were too many freighters. The whites, it is said, frightened off the Chinese freighters. Horses were shot; I cannot say that the white freighters shot them. I think the trouble came up in this way: they have what is called a Teamsters' Union up there, and one of their rules is that teamsters must load in turn. The Chinese took their freight for Chinese merchants, whether it was their turn or not, and this caused trouble. The proportion of Chinese in this business ten years ago was less ; the Chinese then had only one bull team on the road. CHAPTER. XX.—1. UNSKILLED LABOUR. In this chapter reference is had to that large class of labour, skilled and unskilled, men, women and children, who on coming to the country, or being already here, seek employment, and find the usual opportunities of securing employment, in the lower .grades of labour, already to a very large extent absorbed by Chinese and Japanese. It often happens that skilled labourers coming to the country find no opening, and are willing to avail themselves of any position until an opportunity opens in their own particular trade or calling. These, together with that large class who have no particular trade, are debarred from nearly every leading industry in the province, unless they are willing to compete at wages at which the Chinese and Japanese are employed, and very often even then they find that the work is done under contract through a Chinese boss ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 205 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 who will not employ white labour ; or the employer, recognizing the fact that a white man will take the earliest opportunity of bettering his position by leaving an employment where only the Chinese wage is paid, declines to give him employment. How far all avenues of unskilled labour are filled by Chinese may be judged from the following:— In Victoria there are 638 Chinese labourers employed and 173 unemployed ; this includes all miscellaneous labourers, but does not include cannerymen, mill hands, domestic servants or market gardeners. In the same class in Vancouver there are said to be 219 employed and 96 unemployed. In New Westminster there are over a hundred labourers of the same class. John W. Hay, who has charge of the Salvation Army Shelter in Vancouver says : During the year 1900, 800 men sought temporary employment at the shelter, and 400 outside ; part of the 400 may be included in the 800, the majority of the number being different individuals, say 600. These were all white men. They said they failed to find employment elsewhere. Since January, 1901, until May, over 200 have sought employment, from 40 to 60 a month ; 40 out of the 60 would be different individuals. The majority of them, I think, were respectable men, mechanics and miners, but the majority labourers. They had sought work and had not found it. Some of them walked till their feet were sore. They complain of Mongolian labour. They complain that the orientals that are employed in different mills prevent their getting employment. Not being able to get work, they packed wood for us. There was quite a good deal of poverty and distress last winter. I think this province finer than Ontario, and if the ' white men had a chance they would come here, A case to-day occurred where a man cautioned his friend not to come. I would not like to see my people come here without they had a substantial place. I don't think there should be any difficulty in getting white labour. Robert Pledger, Vancouver, says : I am a British navy pensioner. Have lived in Vancouver fourteen years. For several years past I have been doing odd jobs about the city. I formerly, for seven years and a-half, worked as a messenger for the Bank of Montreal, but I accidentally broke my foot and had to leave. In cutting wood the Chinese are severe competitors. They do most of that in town. I am the only white man cutting cordwood around Mount Pleasant, and if I did not have my naval pension I could not live on what I make out of cutting wood. There are quite a few people here who have difficulty in getting work. I think the Chinese and Japanese are getting thicker than ever. They are spreading all over. Wherever you go on Mount Pleasant you meet a Chinaman with a big saw. A white man cannot make a Kving there. If you go and ask for a job they will tell you the Chinamen will do it for ten cents less. I do not like this : still the Chinamen are here and they have to live. The shack I live in I consider small enough, but six Chinamen would live there, and that makes all the difference. I think it is the duty of a country to protect its own people, because if a war was to start up John Chinaman would pick up his blanket and get away, andsthen the mill owners and others would have to depend on the white man to whom they refused to give work to defend their property. I spent the best years of my life in the service of my country. I was engaged in the operations in Japan in 1864, in the last engagement at Nagasaka the same year. I never thought then that the Japanese would compete with me here when I was trying to make an honest living in my old age. I would not advise any of my old ship mates to come here. I would not stay myself unless I was forced to. Frank Saxby, of Victoria, who said that he had applied for work at the sawmills and copper mine, at Chemainus, where Chinese and Japanese were employed, and could not get it, savs : I know there were other workmen in the city looking for work besides myself. I have met a large number during the winter. I have met from one hundred to one hundred and fifty. These came under my personal observation. If there had been a number of them together at any one time they might have got work by contract, and a man is not a capitalist or he would not be going around looking for work, and he needs work, or he would not look for it. There is no work to be had, unless you are a 206 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION I 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 coal miner and speak a foreign tongue, because it is given up to the Chinese, and if a white man invades the territory they strike ; that is the way they do in the work on the docks ; if a white man goes to work in coaling a ship they strike. Mr. Dunsmuir has promised to give the white men the work when there are enough white men to go there and do all the work. The Chinese will not work with a white man, therefore they have got the work. I have been all over the country and I find the Chinese everywhere. I do not know of one town I have not been in. I have been in every state on the Pacific Coast. My birthplace is Canada, but I have spent a good many years in the United States. Joseph Harwood, Vernon, says: I have resided here eight years; for three or four years I worked on the farms and around town and now I am in the transfer business for myself. I have earned my living ever since I have been here by labour each year. I remember one harvest three years ago that white men were not obtainable, but for all other years there were more men than were required. The French brothers last year employed as many as eight Chinese on their farm. They took the place of white men; white men previously did the work. The way it is is this, that a workingman raising a family cannot live here if he has! to compete with the Chinese. I have got four boys and I have got a little home here. It has been hard work to keep the little home and family together. On several small holdings in the neighbourhood of the town there are four or five men with their families and they have to work outside to enable them to exist at all, and they can get little work because of the Chinese and Japanese monopolizing that. In the town here of 700 people there are about 70 Chinese who do work about the houses and gardens and do a lot of work that ought to be given to white men. The Chinese get all the light work around town. The Chinese have no families; they have no one else but themselves to support, and they come into direct competition with white people who have families. la those Chinese are going to continue to come in here, the whites will have to leave the place. The whites are going out wherever they get a chance, when they can get something to do elsewhere. There is no industry here and white people have to depend on work from the farms, and if that is monopolized by the Chinese what are white people going to do ? i They will simply have to leave the country because they cannot make a living for their families. I should think there are five or six hundred farm labourers in this valley (Okanagon). The seventy or eighty Chinese here now do interfere with the labour market and with this district as a whole. If white men with their families were here on small holdings it would be better for the country and bring a larger area of land under cultivation and benefit all round. White men come here and find there is nothing to do and go away. In a good harvest year there are plenty of white men to be had for the harvest, but as soon as the harvest is over they go out, because there is nothing for them. The wood cutting here is done by the Chinese. I have cut wood, but I have had to do it at the same price as the Chinamen, and if I had not something else to do besides that I could not support my family. One dollar a day and board is as much as a farmer here can pay to make farming a paying institution. I could not live on less. It takes about 65 cents a day for a family to live here. Three years ago the crops would have been saved without the Chinamen, only it would have taken a little longer. They did not get in all their crops in time because* the white men would not come in when the Chinese were here. If there were no Chinese or Japanese here we would have lots of white people. In the course of my business I have had a great deal to do with the moving of household goods of people to the station, 'and it is a shame to see white people being driven out of the country by Chinese and Japanese. They move away because they cannot get work in the winter. The Chinese are monopolizing all the wood-cutting, and white men cannot make enough to support their families. There are many such cases. It makes my heart sore to see white people moving away. The men who come here are sober and industrious. There have been only two cases in three months where men have been charged with being the worse of liquor, not ten cases in a year. The white men who come here are sober and industrious. There are about twenty idle men in town at pre- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 207 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 sent. The Chinese come in here in bunches, at times there may be a hundred of them in town for a few days, but generally there are from seventy to eighty of them here all the time. Q. Do you favour restriction or exclusion of Chinese ?—A. Yes, sir. I think we ought to apply the remedy as our friends in Australia have applied it, by a high poll tax, and keep the Chinese and Japanese out altogether. They are a very undesirable class to have in our community; they will not make homes here; they will remain Chinese as long as they are here. I have never seen a case where a Chinaman has made a home such as a white man would make here, building up a home the same as the common labourer would. I am an Englishman from Herefordshire. John S. Annett, of Esquimalt, said : I am a cooper by trade, at present foreman at the lime kilns. The employees are mostly Chinese. There is not much demand for work because of Chinese competition all around. If I lost my place down here I do not know where I would get another place. I have had opportunities of observing what the effect of the presence of the Chinese is upon the country here. I may say that I came here in 1891 on a special excursion. There were fifty people in the car ; of those fifty I am certain that not over twelve remain in the country now. I know of fourteen who came from Newfoundland with the intention of settling here, and within two years every one of them had gone back. A great many of those who came here on the same excursion with me were mechanics, that were willing to work at anything and become settlers here, but found that everything was filled up by Chinese, and there was no place for white mechanics here to make a living. Fifty settlers came in the car; I cannot find traces of more than three or four in the province now. • I am certain not more than twelve out of fifty can be found in the province here now. Q. Why did they leave ?—A. Because they found they could not get work at their trades in the Province. Places were all filled by Chinese. That was the reason given me by those with whom I came in touch after we had been here a little while. While I resided at Millstream, eight years ago, there were four white men left there. They went back east for the same reason. These all came within my own knowledge. The four who left Millstream did not come at the same time as I did. They left because there was no opportunity for making a living here. The competition with the Chinese was too keen. Of course it has to be taken into consideration that when they left, business was a little dull here. They dropped off between 1892 and 1894, and I may say that I know of one, an extra good workman, who was capable of drawing plans and overseeing work, he had been employed overseeing the work on a building costing $30,000 in St. Johns, New Brunswick; he came out here with the idea of bettering himself, and he got thoroughly discouraged and had to go to the other side»to make a living. Two others went at the same time with him. Another one of the little company was a first- class mill man; another was an architect. Arthur Samuel Emory, Victoria, carpenter and joiner, president of trades and labour council, said: Chinese have driven white labouring men out of a great many employments. They have been a great detriment to the province in that respect. The Chinese have regular steady employment in the lumber mills and brick yards, while unskilled white labourers cannot obtain steady work in Victoria. White men and their families have been driven to leave Victoria and seek employment elsewhere. The Chinese are no good to the country as citizens, and they have driven many good citizens out of the province. Q. Would that apply to the Japanese as well as the Chinese what you have said ? —A. Yes, I think it applies with equal force to Japanese. They also have driven unskilled workmen out of the country, and some unskilled workmen into some of the rough work in the trades, so that even good tradesmen are walking around without being able to get employment. The effect of the Chinamen taking the places of unskilled white labourers has been to drive out skilled labour. Ordinary workmen cannot get work to do because the Chinese have monopolized all the labour that is done. Skilled mechanics cannot get steady employment. The Chinese by their competition have reduced the wages in some of the trades, and the Japanese have had the same effect. 208 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 In our trades and labour council there are twelve or fourteen trades represented. One of the regulations is against oriental labour. If we were properly organized Chinese would not be here at all. If Chinese and Japanese were working at the same rate of wages as whites, the organizations would not interfere with them at all. Henry Atkinson, landscape and market gardener, Victoria, said : I have known a great many white people who have come here and gone away again because of the Chinese. Q. Do you know that of your own personal knowledge ?—A. Yes, I know of many having gone away after coming here and finding the Chinese competition here. Q. Where did they go ?—A. All over the world, anywhere they could go to escape Chinese competition, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Q. Explain that if you can, the wages here are high ?—A. The wages are good, but there is not sufficient regular work for good men to come here, because the Chinese have monopolized regular work. William Stocker, president of the Nanaimo miners and mine labourers' protective association, said : The presence of the Chinese here has a very injurious effect upon white labour. Thelabouringman would be to-day in a much better position than heis if the Chinese were not here. He would be able to make more money and spent more in the purchase of supplies. I consider the more money I am able to make the better member of the community I will be, able to do better by my family in the way of giving my little girl education, and in affording my wife more of the luxuries; all round, living better and spending more money in the community, yet still saving and making a little home for mvself, and settling down as a good citizen of the country. Lionel Terry, Alexandra, said : The presence of Chinese here has a tendency to keep whites out of the country. Two or three of my acquaintances have come out with the intention of taking farms in the country, and as soon as they found Chinese here they went off; they did not like Chinese; they preferred to quit British Columbia because oW the Chinese. These were British subjects. Alfred John Curie, Secretary of the Nelson Trades and Labour Council, with which fourteen Unions are affiliated, said : Our membership is about a thousand. The Labourers' Union of this city includes that class of labour that clears land, but there is not much of it to do. The wages for that kind of work would be $2.50 for nine hours. We make every effort to get men to stand by the scale of wages fixed for the different trades. When I mentioned clearing land, that refers to clearing lots in the city. A man would clear for gardening or building purposes, and he would ask the Union rate of wages. White labourers do most of that work, but they are not engaged in market gardening, as the Chinese have a monopoly of that here. The cost of board -here is from $5 to $7 a week. Many men live by themselves, called batching. The cost to them depends largely on a man's tastes and requirements. It will cost some men $2.50 a week and others $5 a week. A man does his own cooking and very often his own washing and tailoring here. Most of the bachelors have got little shacks of their own. Frank E. Woodside, secretary of the Rossland Miners' Union, said : Through the Trades Council we have ascertained the number of Chinese in town. On November 21, 1900, there were 403 Chinamen in town, of those there were employed in laundries 116, in gardening 50, as woodmen 76, in the grocery business 39, hotels and restaurants 25, gambling 30, keepers of lodging houses 5, as domestic servants 62. The Union gave an expression of opinion upon the question of Chinese immigration in the form of a resolution that I have here, passed on February 6, 1901. It was carried unanimously at the meeting. I think the immigration of Chinese and Japanese into this province should be stopped, for the reason that they are either directly or indirectly in competition with the white people in this country throughout the mining camps in this province. As a rule there is a surplus of white labour here. The fact is, the Chinese and Japanese have the preference as domestics and cooks here, and would have the preference in other things but for the Unions; but for the Unions there would be more white labour idle than there is at the present time. No Chinese are employed working underground here. There is every class of people employed as muckers, except Chinese and Japanese. The majority of them within the last year, since April, 1900, ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 209 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 have been Italians. A great many Italians have come in here within six months past; and they claim they have been replaced on the railway by Japanese; driven from the railway they came to this town and go into work in the mines as miners and shovellers; shovellers get $2.50 a day; at timber and machine work they get $3.50 a day. The common labourers around the mine on the surface get $2.50 a day. I consider that Chinese and Japanese labour employed on the railways indirectly affects the muckers in the mine. Those men come in here and are employed as muckers, and finally they work themselves into being miners, and work themselves into competition with the machine men and timber men and replace them. They affect the surface men along the same line; they affect the ore-sorters as they affect everyone earning a livelihood in the mine. I do not know that any other class of men coming in would affect the miners. It is the immigration of Chinese and Japanese that is causing us all this trouble. Foreigners coming here cause us a great deal of trouble. I call foreign labour European labour, oriental labour. There has been no effort made to prevent them coming in as free men, but when they come under contract there has been an effort made to prevent that; otherwise there has never been any protest at all. John Valentine Cook, tallyman, lumber rater and inspector, of Vancouver, until recently employed at the Hastings Mill, said: In my opinion the employment of so many Mongolians tends to prevent eastern labour of that class coming here. They will not come and compete with that class of labour. My advice to those in the east is to stop where they are, as long as there are so many Chinese and Japanese in the country. I have written to twelve at least in the last two years, and have asked them to teH. their friends not to come here because of the Chinese and Japanese being here. Samuel L. Reid, clothier, &c, Victoria, said: Their presence (the Chinese and Japanese) has the effect of creating an unfair competition with white men; it has had the effect of driving a great many white men out of the country. White men, if they come here with their families, struggle along for a few months, then they have to leave town again. I have known of many cases of the kind. I myself have known many strong hard-working people who have come here, and they have had to leave and go to the other side, because they could not find employment owing to the competition of the Chinese. Stephen French, of Kamloops, general labourer and wood cutter, said : Last winter the Chinese cut about half of the wood, I guess, and cut under me in price. They did it at a lower rate than I could. The price they were paying in this town was $1.25 a cord, two cuts; that takes from two and one-half hours to five hours. They will do it for a dollar and pack it up, and if they see you are likely to get it, they will offer to do it for 75 cents. I am married and have two children; I have been in the country a year, came from England. I have had some digging and gardening and ditching to do. The Chinese are all around. If they find you ask $5 to dig a ditch they will offer to do it for $2.50. They always cut under you. The white man does not stand an equal chance with them. A white man cannot make a living in cutting wood when he comes into competition with the Chinese. The Chinamen can live on so little that it is impossible for a white man to compete with him. People who have wood cut are of course money in pocket by employing the Chinese. AMERICAN EVIDENCE. F. V. Meyers, Commissioner of the Bureau of Labour Statistics, San Francisco, said : I should say that one-half at least of the Chinese in this city are of the class of unskilled labour, who have no trade, but engage in the fisheries or in fruit picking, or any labour such as digging or common work about the city. I think that Chinese competition does affect the earning power of white girls or women to a considerable extent, in the tailoring trade. That class of work is done in the east by white women, yet here it will be found probably that the Chinese get as much for the work, or more, than the women get in eastern cities for that class of work. I made an estimate of the number of people employed in the sugar beet fields and factories as accurately as I could; I estimated that there were employed in these industries 1,500 whites, Chinese 54—14 210 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 575, Japanese 1,000, Mexicans 850; total 3,925; that is in unskilled work. In the factories we estimated that there were 1,375 white people employed and ten Mexicans, and no Chinese or Japanese. The point I make there is, when it comes into the more skilled matter of labour, when it comes that some skill is required in the work, then .white labour is called in. William H. Middleton, Seattle, Representative of Labour Organization, said : Q. For ordinary skilled labour are the Chinese sufficiently numerous to interfere with white labour here ?—A. I do not think so, except in the canning industry; the Japanese have interfered in several branches and driven the white labourer out. They work around gardens, on railways, around lime kilns, and- in these branches the competition of white labour comes in. ii. -THE YOUTHS OF THE COUNTRY. A. R. Milne, C.B., Collector of Customs at Victoria, said : A large number of our boys and girls are going into the United States. Many families have left here because of the lack of employment. Their girls could not even get employment making underwear, and other such things, and they have been driven to California, where they can get work and earn good wages. We have many intelligent boys and girls here now attending our public schools, and as soon as they get through there all the prospect there is for them is to go to the other side. We are supplying the other side with the best labour and depleting our own country. There will be sufficient girls to supply the demand if there were no Chinese here. If the Chinese population is increasing, the outlook is a serious one. I do not think it is possible to establih a rule for immigration, that when there are so many white labourers there.may be so many Chinese and Japanese. . John M. Duval, New Westminster, said : All avenues of labour except highly -skilled labour are being closed to white people, and even the merchants are beginning to feel the competition of the Japanese. In four or five years there will be five thousand boys and girls in Vancouver looking for employment, and they cannot get it because their places have been filled by oriental labour. Samuel M. Robins, superintendent for eighteen years of the New Vancouver Coal Company, Nanaimo, said : Most of our min rs who have arrived at marriageable age are married. A great many own their own homes. Large numbers are permanent residents of Nanaimo. That raises the question that I have already referred to, the aversion on the part of children of white people to manual labour. Chjjdren are growing up here, their parents or headi of the house working in the mine*, and those children are not able to secure any employment, and it has become a serious question with parents what to do with their children. The presence of the Chinese deters children from seeking employment because of the Chinese being employed at certain work, and, as I say, the parents do not know what to do with their children, with the young boys and girls who are growing up in our community. Dr. William W. Walkem, of Nanaimo, sail : I am the father of a family. I have got two grown up boys and another one growing up, and the question is a very important one to me. I have to consider very seriously what I am going to do with my boys. All the avenues of ordinary employment are blocked. If they are not blocked for my class there are others blocked, and that class is taken up by another class. The Chinese take the place in certain work, and that presses people from that work into a higher class, until the thing works itself out. There are a great many people about our streets in search of employment and they cannot get it. John Stewart Fraser, of New Westminster, employed in laying sidewalks, said : I know of 38 men having been turned away from the Hastings Mill last winter, in Vancouver, young able-bodied men willing to work for any rate of wages that would have afforded them a living, and at that tftne I counted 74 Japanese shovelling snow, yet a white man could not get work. My oldest son and two of my nephews have been in Vancouver since the fire until recently, and they have been driven from their own country by the Chinese and Japanese, compelled to seek a living in the State of Wash- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 211 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 ington The conditions existing now alarm me. They alarm me because I have still in this province three sons, and I am very anxious for their future. When I see the Central School up here dismissed ht noon and see the large number of fine boys coming out there, I stand and pause and think what are they going to do, where are they going to get work ; they cannot compete with Chinese and live respectably. Some provision must be made for them, and if the Chinese and Japanese are allowed in this country those boys will be driven out of their own country and have to seek a living on the other side. Q. You went to the Hastings Mill and found they were full up ?—A. They were starting up after being shut down. They were to start up that morning, and the other 37 men went with the same object that I did,—to find work. Q. And you found that they had previously made arrangements ?—A. The labour market had furnished all they required, and there was nothing for us to do then. I at that time counted 74 Japanese shovelling snow, and I saw not a white man in the yard. They were employed that morning. We were there early to make application for work; we were there before 7 o'clock. Q. Do you think there is anything extraordinary in that ?—A. Nothing, except to show that the labour market was overstocked. I wish to show the conditions, that I unsuccessfully looked for work last winter. I looked unsuccessfully for work until Mr. Furness, the foreman fo» the Corporation of New Westminster, took compassion on me and put me to work in March; as a special favour he was generous enough to put me to work then. Q. What is your business, regular business ; have you a trade ?—A. Building railways, tramways, streets, sidewalks, bridges,, wharfs; in Manitoba I was working on the Canadian Pacific Railway. In San Francisco their encroachment on the work of women and girls has created a problem which is thus described by the mayor of that city, who, as he assured us, has made a special study of the Chinese question. He says : The Chinese have been so long in domestic service that they have crowded out the white girls. It is one of the problems of the day to find places for our young women. I have helped myself within the last three months to establish a place from which families could get white women to work. We got a number of sewing machines and got white girls to make up women's work, but we had to give it up. The Chinese would bring their wares to the stores and sell it cheaper than we could produce it. SUMMARY, The result of the evidence bearing upon this subject is beyond question. The conditions which result from the employment of Chinese and Japanese in every avenue of unskilled labour prevent many white immigrants from coining to the province, and induce many who have come to leave. The occupations which usually afford work for boys, girls and women are all occupied to a great extent by Chinese and Japanese, with the result that steady employment is largely closed to the youth of the country and to women who have to seek employment of some kind to earn their living, and apprehension is expressed, which we think well founded, by many prominent witnesses and heads of families of all classes as to the outlook for the youth of the country, and fear is expressed that as they grow up, they will have to seek a livelihood beyond the limits of the province. CHAPTER XXL—MERCHANTS AND TRADERS. T«he following statements prepared by the Chinese Boards of Trade show the volume of Chinese trade of the cities ot Victoria, Nanaimo, Vancouver and New. Westminster. In other towns and villages where there are any considerable numbers of Chinese there are also Chinese merchants, with whom they chiefly trade. 54—1U 212 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION f*. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Following these statements will be found the evidence of a number of merchants and other traders, giving their views upon Chinese immigration as it affects them. Classified statement of Merchants engaged in business in the city of Victoria, British Columbia. Business. Importers and manufacturers of opium Dealers in dry goods and manufacturers of clothing Butchers, provision and poultry dealers Druggists and dealers in general merchandise Manufacturers of Chinese clothing. Merchant tailors Boot and shoe dealers j Restaurant keepers Pawn broker Jewellers Tinware dealer i Cigar manufacturers Rice millers Greengrocers. ... Manufacturers ladies' silk underwear, Cannery contractors and importers Importers silk fancy goods, curios and general merchandise. Wholesale importers general merchandise Retail importers general merchandise Total 109 No. of Partners. 18 19 15 12 3 17 3 15 3 3 2 2 4 4 2 15 9 64 78 288 Dated at Victoria, B.C., March 21, 1901. Total business done by all Chinese business firms in the city of Victoria, B.C., for one year last past ending February 17, 1901, $1,059,805.12. Gold. Importations from China $ 107,594 78 Goods purchased in Canada, England and United States 464,369 35 Canada customs duties, wharfage, freight and drayage. 148,376 75 Revenue and road tax, assessment tax5 business licenses (exclusive of labourers) 7,804 85 Water rates, gas and electric lights 9,452 25 Insurance, fire 4,114 20 Rents paid to white landlords (exclusive of labourers' dwellings) 34,274 75 Postage stamps (exclusive of labourers) 1,511 60 Custom house brokerage 807 50 Real estate owned by Chinese in the city of Victoria, B.C. 296,090 25 Total capital invested in business in the city of Victoria, B.C ft 573,500 00 LEE CHEONG, President Chinese Con. Ben. Association. Dated at Victoria, B.C., March, 1, 1901. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 213 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Classified statement of merchants engaged in business in the city of Vancouver, B.C.:— Merchants (comprising 47 firms) partners 143 Classified as follows : Importers and wholesale dealers ... 8 Retail grocers 7 Opium manufacturers 2 Greengrocers, butchers and poultry dealers 15 Rice millers 3 Dealers in silk and fancy goods 2 Merchant tailors 2 Manufacturing clothiers " 8 47 Total amount of business done by all Chinese business firms in the city of Vancouver for one year ending Feb. 17, 19.01. §518,051.50. Importations from China $ 78,198 13 Goods purchased in Canada and England 193,176 95 Goods purchased from United States 2,655 05 Canada customs duties, freghtage, wharfage, and drayage 95,760 92 Capital invested 256,600 00 Rents paid to white landlords 30,808 40 Water rates, gas and electric light 7,875 20 * o o Business license taxes (revenue and assessment) 5,109 75 Fire insurance 2,568 20 Postage stamps \ 1,801 50 Customs brokerage 833 80 Real property. 124,058 10 Statement showing number of merchants in the city of Nanaimo, and the towns of Extension, Oyster Bay, Alexandra, Wellington, Chemainus and Duncans, B.C. : 3 J J 7 O 7 7 Nanaimo merchants 14 Merchants in the six towns 24 Total business done by the above Chinese merchants for one year last past ending Feb. 17, 1901, amounting to $162,930. Goods purchased from white merchants. $ 35,262 00 Property owned by Chinese 57,525 00 Business licenses and taxes (exclusive of labourers.).. . 378* 50 Gas lights, water rates, wood and coal.... 3,884 00 Postage stamps (exclusive of labourers) 384 00 Importations from China 27,857 00 Wharfage, drayage, and duty 33,111 00 Customs brokerage * 335 50 Rents paid to white landlords 4,773 00 Total capital invested in business 104,300 00 Classification of merchants in the above-mentioned cities and towns as follows : No. of No. of Firms. Partners. Importers of provisions 9 • Butchers 1 Butchers and provisions 4 Druggists it 5 OO 19 49 Dated at Nanaimo, April, 1901. 214 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 STATEMENT OP CHINESE MERCHANTS OP NEW WESTMINSTER.* The following statement represents the value of importations, business transacted, &c, for the year 1900. Number of firms or businesses,' 20. Total value of goods imported from Hong Kong to New Westminster by Chinese merchants • . $ 31,950 33 Total value of goods imported from San Francisco 536 36 Total value of goods imported from Canada and the United Kingdom 155,662 50 Total . $ 188,149 19 Amount paid duty on imported goods 26,119 53 n for freight, wharfage, and drayage 13,830 00 n in taxes, including city taxes, licenses, &c, for the same year 2,341 50 it for electric light 736 85 ,i gas 1,002 25 it water rates 643 82 i, wood M.. . 1,759 57 n insurance premiums 2,849 95 ,, rents 3,888 50 ii envelopes & stamps 537 05 it customs brokerage 96 25 ii rent paid by Chinese gardeners 1,567 00 ii taxes 52 00 Value of real estate and buildings owned by Chinese merchants 70,187 50 Capital brought in from China and invested in different, businesses 76,455 50 Capital invested in cannery 30,000 00 Estimated amount paid in fares, local steamboat, trams, <fec, about 4,000 00 Total business of Chinese merchants, including cannery 316,917 15 Number of merchants, 29. David Spencer, dry goods merchant at Victoria, says : I employ about a hundred hands. I know of no industry dependent upon Chinese labour for its existence. I think there are enough Chinese here. They do not assimilate with the people of the country and do not form an integral part of the population of the country. They merely come here to see if they can make a little money, and go back with that money to China. I do not think the country can be built up with a people of that kind. The strength of a country depends to a great extent on the intelligence and physical strength and energy of the great mass of the people following the various trades and callings. I think the effect of favouring further immigration into the country will be very detrimental to the whole country. If their places were filled with white people that would increase the trade of Eastern Canada and make it better for all classes of mechanics and tradesmen. The fact of the working man knowing the Chinese were here, and were allowed to come here would not have any serious influence on anyone coming * to the country one way or the other; that is to deter them. If the employment of Chinese was barred it would give a stimulus to some industries. I am selling goods, manufactured goods, I sell here irrespective of any Chinese conditions or competition, and I think I can still do it,—ladies' wear of all kinds. I do not think the Chinese had anything to do with the present development of the country except in the canneries. I would rather have the canneries with the Chinese if it could not be carried on in any other way. And the same with respect to the lumbering business. In my store I 1_ ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 215 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 employ girls from $15 to $50 a month, some $60 ; $15 would be low wages. They board themselves. Girls earning $15 a month generally live at home with their parents and are learning the business. The supply of that class of labour is not specially abundant now. The cause is, there are many who do not want to work. You cannot compel men to work if they can live without it. They will stay at any particular service until they get married. I think the country is able to keep pace with other parts equally as well without the Chinese. The Chinese patronize me quite a bit. Robert Erskine, grocer, Victoria, says : I have been in business seventeen or eighteen years. The presence of Chinese I think does not decrease our business, but it certainly does not increase it as the same number of whites would do. I am in favour of restriction. It would tend to benefit the country. If white people came here they would bring their families with them and trade with grocers and others. They are in direct competition with me in some lines. They peddle a good deal; they go around from house to house and sell tea and other articles. I think the restriction of Chinese would have a tendency to increase white immigration. Our business would be double, at «/ O least, what it is with the Chinese here. Robert H. Johnston, seedsman and nurseryman, Victoria, says : I deal with the Chinese to a large extent in the sale of seeds, roughly speaking about $400 a year. I favour prohibition or a tax that will amount to about the same thing. I would suggest a tax of about $500. I do so, first, from a point of my own interest. If the Chinese were excluded my business would increase greatly in a few years. For intelligent work the white man is far better. I would prefer to have a white man any time to the Chinese. If the Chinese were excluded it would be better for me, because the white men would raise vegetables for themselves. They would buy seeds in small quantities and I would get better prices. I have a good deal of competition with the east. They send catalogues to everybody. Hardress Clarke, grocer, of Victoria, says : The Chinese peddle fruit, vegetables and tea, but not to the same extent as some years ago. I deal in fruit and vegetables. J O O They injure my business to a great extent. I am in favour of further restriction. I look at it from a British standpoint. They interfere with our labouring people and they confer no benefit on the country. They do not assimilate or take any part in our institutions. We have institutions to keep up, and if the Chinese were not here we would have white people in their places who would help to keep up those institutions and benefit the country at large. They will never unite with us. It would not be desirable if they would assimilate. Their presence here lessens the volume of my trade. .We send nothing to ' Chinatown,' but we do to some Japanese institutions. The Chinese have their own stores for their own people. Alexander G. McCandless, of Victoria, ready-made clothing and gents' furnishings, says: The presence of the Chinese affects my business very seriously, for the reason that they make ordered clothing for the price of a ready-made suit, and many people go to the Chinese instead of coming to us merchants. They compete directly with us. I consider that they have a very serious effect on everything. They drive white men out of the country. I consider the country would be much better without them. Take for instance this city, and other towns would be just the same. We must have at least three thousand Chinese in the city. We could get along in the city here without a single Chinese. If the Chinese were not here we would have at least five thousand more white citizens. These five thousand would mean a great many more families housekeeping. It would mean an increase in trade in every shape and form, clothing, dry goods and groceries. White men live better and spend three times as much as the Chinamen do. White men will have their families here, and that would mean that most of their earnings would be spent in the province. Samuel L. Reid, of Victoria, ready-made clothing and gents' furnishings, says : The presence of the Chinese in our business has the effect of decreasing the volume of trade, and of creating an unfair competition with white men. As years go on they are getting more and more into different lines. The number of lines they are getting into is increasing. They are being employed in many more lines than they were a few years ago. 216 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Alexander Wilson, tinsmith and plumber, Victoria, says : There is one Chinese firm in my line of business. His competition does not injure my business. The Chinese buy some things from us. I do not employ Chinese. Most decidedly I prefer to employ men of my own colour. I favour restriction against the Chinese becoming naturalized, by an educational test and long residence in the province. I would favour legislation denying the right of naturalization. If we had been a ,-ouple of thousand miles from California and a thousand miles from the other side we would have had much more population. I mean by that, that we would have been in a position to grow everything that we require, and the country would have been developed faster if we had not the competition of California and the State of Washington. I would advise the immigration of Chinese to go on. Their work is very necessary at" times. I do not believe in restriction at all. I am a freetrader. I do not believe in keeping goods or people of any kind out of the country. The Chinese live as well as they can. There is no question the white man who comes here and raises a family is much preferable to the transient gentleman who comes here and makes money and goes. It is all one thing whether a nigger or a Chinaman or a Scotchman starts up a business ; if he makes a success he is a benefit to the country. Robert F. Green, general merchant, Kaslo, member of the provincial legislature for Slocum, says: I am thoroughly convinced that were we able to prohibit the further incoming of this class of labour and substitute in its place as many white labourers who would come here with their families the province would have an era of prosperity such as it has never seen up to the present time, because the presence of these people here who would need supplies of all kinds, clothing, groceries, lumber for building, would give employment to so many mechanics and artisans, and the very fact that there would be no competition with a menial or servile class would be an important factor in producing a steady flow of immigration here to take the places of the servile Chinese and Japanese. There are comparatively few Chinese in my section of the country. We have two thousand people in Kaslo and the Chinese population numbers one hundred. Thomas Lewis, clerk of the City Market, New Westminster, said : Q. Do the Chinese do any business in the market %—A. They occup$ themselves mainly in peddling ; they sell small vegetables on the market, but I have nothing to do with the peddling. They sometimes handle bulk stuff. Once in a while they buy in the open market. Their regular business is raising that kind of stuff, and we all know they do a good deal in peddling. They usually sell out in peddling, but sometimes they bring a little to the market. Of course the white men would like if they were not there. They seem to do their own little business themselves. Personally I nave never been able to see that their peddling through the city interfered with the prosperity of the market. The market is only held one day in the week. Some of the white men peddle. Q. Couldn't you have two markets a week ?—A. There is a difficulty in getting the ranchers to come in. There is such a wide district, it is difficult to get them to come in from Ladner and other places. The ranchers come in during the week sometimes and sell quite a lot of stuff in the city. Benjamin W. Brown, of Victoria, fish, poultry and fruit merchant, said: The Chinese affect my business. There are as many as forty engaged at some seasons. I have two stores ; am married and have a family. Chinese have no stores and no families. I favour restriction and exclusion. We get vegetables from California and other places, but as soon as Canadian vegetables come in we do not send to California for them. I am the only Canadian, occupying a store, in the fish business in the city. George Gawley, of Victoria, engaged in fish, fruit and poultry business, says : The presence of the Chinese affects my business to a great extent. They sell at a lower price than we can possibly sell for. They usually peddle. There has been one Chinese store in the city. They buy fish in the market and peddle them around. Chinese fishmongers do not pay rent for stores. At one time there were upwards of fifty of these peddlers. They peddle fruit in the same way as fish. There are probably ten white men engaged in my business in this city. There are probably two dozen Chinese ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 217 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 engaged in the fruit business. There are more Chinese engaged in my business than white men. I am married and have a family of six children. The Chinese who engage •/ O O in this business, if married, have not their families here. I find my business much encroached upon by them. The other white men who are engaged in this business have families, with the exception of one or two. I pay $25 a month rent for the store. I oannot say it would be a benefit to the rest of the people if the Chinese undersell me in the market, because the white people receive no benefit from the Chinese in return. I do not know that it would raise the price to any great extent if my business were protected from the Chinese. I think the public would receive benefit instead of loss. I think if the whites replace the Chinese my sales would increase from thirty-five to fifty per cent. It might be profitable for me to peddle from house to house. It would not add very much to the cost, where we usually employ a man in taking orders. Fruit is principally imported, not a very large quantity being grown in the province. I buy my fish from Indians. During the winter months the vegetables come from San Francisco, but not after we grow vegetables here. I sell nothing to Chinese. I do not think $100 tax is enough to keep the Chinese out. I would favour their exclusion. Lee Coy and Lee Lum, two Chinese peddlers, who were examined, gave evidence to the effect that they made about $1 a day, some days more, and some less. They bought their fish from white fishermen. SUMMARY. From the foregoing statements prepared by the Chinese Boards of Trade, it appears that there are 228 Chinese merchants in Victoria, comprising 109 firms, and that the volume of business done by them for the year 1900 amounted to $1,059,812. In Vancouver there are 143 merchants, comprising 47 firms, with a business last year amounting to $518,051. At Nanaimo and vicinity there are 14 merchants, doing a business last year of $162,930. New Westminster has 29 Chinese merchants, who did a business last year of $316,917. And, speaking generally, there are Chinese merchants in business in every city, town and village in the province where there are a sufficient number of Chinese to justify their presence. Their trade is chiefly with their own people who deal principally with them. As the market gardening is chiefly done by Chinese, they also control the sale of O O ■/ «/ * J garden vegetables, peddling them in baskets from house to house. In Victoria there are fifty such peddlars, and although there is there a fine market house, there is no pub- He market, nor is there a market in any other town or city in British Columbia except New Westminster. Among white traders the feeling is unanimously opposed to the Chinese. CHAPTER XXII—IS FURTHER RESTRICTION OR EXCLUSION DESIRED % The following evidence is not intended to give the reasons offered by the witnesses in favour of exclusion or otherwise, as that has already been done in previous chapters, but rather to gather a concensus of opinion from witnesses representing all classes upon the question of further restriction or exclusion, and where offered, the views of the witnesses as to whether or not the Chinese and Japanese of the labouring classes who have come to this country are considered desirable immigrants. It will be noticed that comparatively few employees are included among the following witnesses, for the reason that both skilled and unskilled labour are unanimous in favour of exclusion; while among the other witnesses every profession, trade and calling is represented, especial care being taken to include employers of Chinese and Japanese labour. The view of the witnesses as to assimilation is not quoted in this connection, for the reason that there is absolute unanimity with respect to the Chinese, that they would not assimilate and it was not desirable that they should. There was almost equal unanimity to the same effect with respect to the Japanese. 218 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 VICTORIA. Joseph D. Graham, Government agent at Atlin, said: I think it would be better for the white men if the immigration of Chinese into the country were prohibited. Q. What distinction do you make between the Chinese and the Japanese ?—A. I would rather deal with the Japanese; they are a more manly class of people. Dr. Roderick Fraser, medical health officer for the city of Victoria, said : I think it would be in the interest of Canada if there were no Chinese here at all. Q. Would you favour their exclusion 1—A. Yes, I think it would be better to have white people in this country. Dr. Alfred T. Watt, superintendent of Quarantine for British Columbia, said-: Of course my own private opinion is we would be better off without these people; (Chinese) in this country; I do not think they are beneficial. Captain Clive Phillips-Wolley, former executive officer of the Sanitary Commission of the province, author, &c, &c, at present engaged in farming, said : I have passed a great many years in China. Q. What effect do you think a large increase of immigration would have upon the welfare of this country 1—A. It will have a disastrous affect. White labour cannot come in and compete with them. I say it is better to have one white man in the country than to have a dozen Chinese. We do not want the Chinese here. I am very much prejudiced in favour of the Japanese. I do not want him, but I think better to have him than the Chinese, if we have to have either of them. He seems to be willing to live more or less the white man's life. He will live as a white man does, and he is cleaner in his surroundings. He is more like our own people in assimilating to our manners and customs and modes of living, and he is more civilized. He is more manly and gentlemanly. He is a more dangerous competitor with the white man. He adapts himself more easily to our civilization than the Chinese. The Chinese will do the lowest kind of labour and stick to it; the Japanese will get higher if he can, and he has brain enough to rise into any of the mechanical pursuits. John Logg, a journeyman tailor says : I believe, unless the thing is stopped, unless Chinese immigration is prohibited altogether, that it will not only affect our trade, but it will affect every trade and calling in the province, and the labouring class ; it will affect every class in the province, and instead of having an Anglo-Saxon community in the province of British Columbia we will have a British Columbia of Chinese and Japanese. There is a time coming when the labouring men of this country will fight for their rights, as they had to fight for responsible governmerit; that time will not be long in coming if our grievances are not redressed. Daniel Campbell, merchant tailor, said : I will say for myself, if the Chinese are allowed to come in here, if they are not prohibited from coming in here, I would simply have to pull up and go elsewhere to earn a living. William Smythe, a shoe dealer, employs one Chinaman, said : I favour unlimited immigration. I think the numbers would be restricted by the Chinese themselves. When things are dull here the Chinese are not slow in advising those at home not to come here. I do not favour prohibition ; I do not favour restriction. I think white men ought to be able to compete with them on easy terms. We want the country filled up. There is no pressure as yet. We should have ten millions of people in this country. I would not say anything should be done until the pressure comes. I do not think there is any public demand for prohibition now. Q. Do you not consider the Chinese and Japanese good citizens of the country ?— A. I do not think they are. Q. The Chinese do not become citizens except in very rare instances ?—A. No, there would not be so much objection to them if they became good citizens. Moses Lenz, clothing manufacturer and wholesale merchant, said : Q. Would you favour the restriction of Chinese immigration 1—A. In the present condition of our labour market I would not. Q. Would you favour exclusion ?—A. Not in the present condition of the labour market. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 21» SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Are you in favour of any further restriction of Chinese immigration ?—A. Well,. I do not know I am sure. With the present labour market we would be at a great loss-' manufacturing in our line if there was any further restriction. Q. Are there enough Chinese now to meet your demands at the present time ?•—A.. Yes, we get all our work done without any difficulty. Q. Supposing those remained that are here and no others came ?•—A. I suppose- there would be ample labour. I would not favour restriction or prohibition in the present condition of our labour market. Ardwell M. Sandell, cutter in Lenz & Leiser's : the firm employs from thirty to thirty-five Chinese. He says : I think it would be better for the country in general to- have no more Chines come in. The present poll tax of $100 is not sufficient. I am not in favour of having no Chinese ; I am in favour of restriction, of keeping them out to a certain extent. I do not think disaster would follow if they were prevented from coming here. I think they discourage the immigration of white people to this province. I am not in contact with the Japanese the same as I have been with the Chinese.. I think the Japanese are a preferable race to the Chinese. They are not as desirable as Europeans are. I do not think the Japanese will assimilate with our people; it would not be desirable if they were inclined to. Alexander F. McCrimmon, proprietor of steam laundry, says : Q. Do you favour an exclusion act ?—A. Yes, I think that would be the best way out of it. The Chinese would be a menace to British Columbia, if they were granted the franchise. They would control the legislation by their votes. The politicians would control them. I mean that corrupt politicans would handle them. George Allen ELirk, of the firm of Turner, Beeton & Co., wholesale merchants and. canners, said :— Q. Are you in favour of any greater restriction in the immigration of Chinese 1— A. Well, I think if you restrict it further it will make matters worse. If they are turned out altogether we would have to get coolie labour like the natives of India that O O are being taken to Jamaica and Australia. You have got to be able to produce your stuff at the same price as outside people. The country can only be developed by capital and cheap labour. If you can get other cheap labour turn out the Chinese altogether.. Q. Would you favour further restriction or not in the interests of the country 1— A. That is a question I cannot answer. I cannot say whether it would be beneficial to restrict the Chinese or not. Q. Do you think it would be better to let them come in ?—A. It is a difficult question to answer ; I have not given much thought to that. I would rather have restric- j O O tion than prohibition. I do not think the $100 tax will cut much figure, if they want to* come in they will pay the extra $50. All I want is to have cheap labour. Robert H. Johnson, seedsman and nurseryman, said: I favour restriction; either prohibition or a tax that Would amount to about the same thing; I suggest a tax of $500. I would say the Japanese are a greater menace to the country than the Chinese. William Bull, foreman of brickyard, said: I favour exclusion; not to send those away who are here, that would disarrange trade too much, but to put a head tax to prevent any more coming here. As the Chinese decrease here white people would come in here and take their places. There are many who regard the Japanese as more dangerous than the Chinese; they can adapt themselves more readily to the customs of the country, and they work for lower wages than the Chinese. Andrew Strachan, fruit grower, said : I think the tax should be raised to at least $500. George Jooves, retired contractor, brickmaker and stonemason, said : I am in favour of keeping the Chinese out altogether. I do not believe in any $500 tax, because I do not believe the Chinese do any good in this country, and they will never become British subjects. 220 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 I do not know as to the Japanese; I have never come in contact with them in any shape or form. ^^j Frederick Stephen Hussey, superintendent of provincial police of British Columbia for the last ten years, said : I favour the exclusion both of Chinese and Japanese. William Wilson, printer, ex-president of the Trades and Labour Council of Vic- roria, said : I would favour total exclusion, and I would tax every man who employs Chinese $100 a year. I would not tax the Chinamen, but I would tax the man who employs them. As to Japanese, I would favour restriction. I would favour the strict application of the Natal Act. Morris Humber, builder, brickmaker and contractor, said : I think the tax of $100 very good. Let a man go and come as he likes. J. W. Balmain, civil engineer, said: The Chinese are a great disadvantage in British Columbia. If the Chinese are allowed to come in here as they have come in in the past it would become a very serious matter to the country. What I have said as to the Chinese refers in a great measure to the Japanese; still the Japanese seem to be adopting the white man's customs and mixing more with the whites. Arthur Samuel Emory, president of the Trades and Labour Council of Victoria, said : The Chinese are no good to the country as citizens, and they have driven many good citizens out of the province. I think we could follow in the steps of the United States and exclude the Chinese, and the Japanese question could be worked out by treaty between the governments. Alexander R. Milne, C.B., collector of customs for Victoria, said : I do not like to express an opinion as to the present Chinese population, but if that population is increased the outlook is very serious. I think putting a restriction on immigration would only excite the Japanese, because they are very sensitive as to their status as a people and as a nation. I think the Japanese nation have reached the stage in which they want the same privileges and amenities as are given to a first class power. William George Cameron, merchant, said : I am in favour of prohibition. I would not favour the Chinese being admitted to citizenship if they remained here. I think the Japanese are a better class of people than the Chinese. Samuel L. Reid, merchant, said: I am in favour of prohibition. As to the ■Japanese, they are not a desirable class of citizens, but they are more inclined to live like Europeans than Chinese. In a few years they will embrace European ways entirely. John Piercy, wholesale merchant, said : I am thoroughly in favour of the exclusion of the Chinese. I have not drawn any distinction between the Japanese and Chinese ; I may not have considered the question enough to express a definite opinion as to that. I think there should be restriction on them. George Gawley, dealer in fruit, fish and poultry, said: I favour the exclusion of Mhe Chinese. I do not favour granting the franchise to them at all. The Japanese are a class of people who have come in here recently. I never came in contact with the Japanese. Benjamin William Brown, dealer in fish, fruit and poultry, said : I favour further restriction to the extent of a heavier tax. I would like to see coolie or Chinese labourers kept out altogether. They are a great injury to the country. John Bell, roofer and paver, said : I do not believe in a tax at all. I do not think they are fit to exercise the franchise, and I think they ought to be kept out altogether. I would like the Chinese to be kept out altogether. I believe in either allowing them in here fully and freely and giving them the full rights of British subjects, or else debarring them entirely. Thomas Deasy, chief of the fire brigade, said: I am opposed to Chinese immigration. I have had very little dealings with the Japanese. I think they are a superior class to the Chinese, but I believe if the Japanese came here in as great numbers as the Chinese we would be in the same condition as regards them. L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 James Edward Painter, wood dealer, employs Chinese cutting cordwood, said : I think $100 is a very good thing to keep inferior labour out, and that is sufficient. Alexander Gilmour McCandless, merchant, said: There may be difficulties in the way as to the Japanese. I think that they should both be excluded. If they cannot exclude the Japanese and can exclude the Chinese I would like to see them excluded. I would'increase the $100* tax to $500. Joseph Shaw, market gardener, said : I think the effect of Chinese on the country is ruinous ; there will have to be something done. I think the Japanese are worse than the Chinese. Hardress Clarke, grocer, said : I am in favour of further restriction of the Chinese. Robert Erskine, grocer, said : I am in favour of restriction, it would tend to benefit the country. As to the Japanese, they are a race that do to a certain extent ape the white race. They fall more in line with the methods of white people. Those in the province for a number of years are better than the Chinese. John Kinsman, contractor, retired from business, said : The tax was increased to $100, and it is my opinion that if that was tried for a year or two that would really stop a great many coming in here. If there were no increase in the number of Chinese it would be better. If at the end of two years the tax is not found to be sufficient it could be doubled. Thomas R. Smith, of the firm of Robert Ward & Co., general commission merchants and cannery owners, said : It goes without saying that we do not want any more than we can help. It cannot be contended they are desirable citizens. From the standpoint of a citizen I should say further restriction is desirable. I should say the Chinese are the least undesirable (that is of the Chinese and Japanese). If I made restriction against the Chinese I would make restriction against the Japanese. I do not say that the Japanese is preferable to the Chinese. I think the general policy should be to keep the Chinese out and gradually to get white men in. William John Taylor, barrister-at-law, said : The presence of the Chinese has had a detrimental effect on the province." I think Chinese labour should be entirely excluded. No more Chinese should be allowed to come in. As to Japanese labour I think it would be advisable to exclude that also. Charles F. Todd, wholesale grocer, and engaged in the canning industry, said : I think the Chinese have been a benefit to the country; I am merely speaking of the canning business. I would not recommend that Chinese should be allowed to come in without restriction, it would be overdone. I should think unless the flow becomes greater than at the present time $100 is sufficient. There are very few coming into the country now, that is as far as I know. I am not in favour of an Exclusion Act with reference to the Japanese. I think restriction is quite as necessary with the Japanese as with the Chinese; I should say as much as on the Chinese. Albert Edward McPhillips, barrister-at-law and member of the Legislative Assembly, said : I do not think they (the Chinese) will ever become citizens of the country; all their sympathies and desires are centred in their own country. I think it is yery detrimental from a national point of view. I think the per capita tax should be increased. As a member of the Legislature I am in favour of increasing it to $500. As to the Japanese, there is difficulty there no doubt; still, Canada, I think, could, without interfering with interests, cope with this matter by'exclusion. Joseph A. Sayward, manager of the Sayward Lumber Co., said : I am in favour of restriction. I do not believe we should have any more Chinese come into the country. I think what we have here is sufficient. I think the same objections would apply to the Japanese. Robert G. Tatlow, M.L.A., for Vancouver city, said : I think the influx of Chinese or Mongolian labour into the country is most decidedly a menace to the white people of this province and to the well-being of the community and the country generally. My view is for prohibition of the labouring classes ; I may say I am in favour of prohibition 222 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 -as far as it can be got as to both Chinese and Japanese, with due regard to the existing treaty. William H. Munsie, lumberman and in the sealing business, said : In regard to Ohinese immigration, I prefer to exclude them, to exclude any further immigration. From the standpoint of the employer of labour I do not think the result of exclusion Would be unfavourable. That would, I think, apply with the same force to the Japanese. William Harrington Ellis, provincial immigration officer for Vancouver Island, formerly business manager of the Colonist, referring to the Chinese, said : They are a serious detriment to the general prosperity of the community. They are not and can- hot become citizens as we understand the term. The imposition of the head tax has not Iiad the effect desired, in my opinion. As a race the Japanese believe they are capable of taking an equal place among the oivilized nations of the world. Do not consider them desirable from the fact that they <do not and cannot assimilate. Mrs. Mina Wheeler, public school teacher, said : I favour restriction; I do not think they do any good in the country. Arthur L. Belyea, member of the board of school trustees, barrister-at-law, said : I would not care to have any more Chinese in the province than are here now. As to Japanese, I do not think they are any more desirable than the Chinese. I qualify that only by saying that the Japanese catch on to our manners and customs faster than the Chinese. They imitate as far as they can European civilization, but when it comes to be a question whether they will be Europeans or Japanese, they are Japanese all the time. Henry Atkinson, market gardener, said: I would favour prohibition of further Chinese immigration. With reference to the Japanese, they are no better; I put them in the same oategory. William A. Robertson, blacksmith and prospector, said: I am decidedly not in favour of further Chinese immigration; I would like, to have it restricted, because it is detrimental to the country and it is demoralizing to the whole community. Charles F. Moore, bill broker and notary public, said: I resided for twenty-five years in China. I was in the Chinese service. I was paymaster in the Chinese Government Office under Sir Roderick Dhu. I married a Manchu lady, quite different from the Chinese; the Manchus are far superior to the Chinese, quite a different race, a different language. I am decidedly not in favour of Chinese immigration, because I know the Chinese intimately, and I believe they are a great menace to our trade and to our people and to our families. I say that from my observation of them, from an intercourse of twenty-five years among them. Hugh B. Gilmour, M. L. A. for Vancouver City, said : I am in favour of the prohibition of Chinese immigration. It is not desirable to have a class of people in the .country who do not become citizens. I would also prohibit the immigration of the Japanese. Edmund James Palmer, manager of the Victoria Lumber Company at Chemainus, said : I am in favour of total exclusion. I think we have enough of the Chinese here now. If you are figuring to settle up a community and open up the country, Japanese •are no good. They are less objectionable than the Chinese. Henry Croft, manager of the Mount Sicker Copper Mine, forty-five miles from Victoria, said : I think there is a sufficient number of Chinese here now. I do not think it is necessary to permit any more Chinese to come into the country. I think there are " enough of Chinese and Japanese here at the present time. Q. Do you think there would be any necessity for their further immigration ?—A. Certainly not. Q. To what extent would you restrict immigration V—A. It would all depend on the progress of the country. Q. I am not speaking of excluding those who are here, but of stopping the further immigration of Chinese ?—A. As far as that goes I should advise the stoppage of immi- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 223 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 oration from the orient in the future. We have enough oriental labour in this province *o now. Q. Would you exclude further Chinese immigration to the country 1—A. No, I would simply raise the per capita tax on their coming in, and have fewer come in than come in now. Q. If there are enough Chinese here now why do you require any more ?—A. I ■cannot say any more are required ; that is to be decided yet. I should prefer to keep the tax just as it is. Q. Do you say you favour restriction ?—A. Yes, to a certain extenfr; we do not require any more Chinese or Japanese here at present. I favour restriction, and that might be relaxed to a certain extent as they were required from time to time. I think there is a sufficient number of Japanese here now to meet the demand. I do not think you can restrict the Japanese. Major Charles F. J. Dupont, capitalist, said: I think it is only for a transient period of time we want them at all. We do not wish them to assimilate, and I do not think they are in such numbers here as to be at all an interference with the white labourer, and I do not think any further restriction is required. I do not think they will ever become what may be called Canadians. It is merely an economical question as to labour having them here at all. I have had no experience with the Japanese. I can see a marked difference between Hiem in their habits ; I think the Japanese are better in their habits than the Chinese. "They conform more to the manners and customs of European nations. I think the danger of Japanese assimilation is greater, but we do not wish them to assimilate. Dr. Owen Meredith Jones said : I believe in restriction on immigration of Chinese. «till further. It would be a good thing for the country at all events. They are not -capable of building up a nation. I think the Japanese coolie immigration ought certainly to be restricted. I think they are both objectionable. The Rev. William Leslie Clay, Presbyterian Minister at Victoria, said : Their presence here in large numbers is certainly not desirable, nor do I think it desirable that even those who are here should be allowed to continue their residence here for any lenoth of time. I do not think it is to the best interests of the country from any point of view that they should be here. I think there are quite enough here now. I do not ihink their numbers should be recruited. I think they can never become part of the body pohtic, aud if they did I do not think it would be desirable. I would not give -fchem the franchise. I certainly would be opposed to any naturalization of the Chinese. The current idea as to the Japanese is simply this, that they, with the Chinese, will not and cannot assimilate with us. They seem to adopt western methods of living, Iiut I do not think they will ever assimilate and become an integral part of our race. The Rev. Elliot Sproule Rowe, Methodist minister of Victoria, said : I think it is very injurious to the country to have any class of people in the community who will not .assnnilate, who have no aspirations, who are not fit to live in social and political relations with our people. It seems to me that restriction can only be temporary in its effects. I think that in the meantime there should be prohibition. Speaking from a national standpoint, I think the general sentiment of the people of Canada would be in favour of the exclusion of the Chinese. I think Canada would be stronger by the exclusion of individuals of the Chinese race of.the coolie class. s Q. Do you draw any distinction between the Japanese as a class and the Chinese «— A. Well the difference in the numbers here is so great that, speaking from my present information, I would be in favour of the Japanese, but that is speaking from very imperfect data. My preference would be due to the fact, that there seems a greater tendency on the part of these people to adopt our customs ; that is speaking entirely from a national standpoint, I have more respect for a man who comes to a country with the intention to settle there and adapt himself to the country and its people, than to a man who simply •comes here to make money and take it out of the country. 224 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Hezekiah George Hall, police magistrate for the city of Victoria, said : From my experience of the race I hardly think the Chinese will ever make desirable citizens in the broad sense of the word, Canadians proper. I would think it was desirable to prohibit the further immigration of Chinese. Miss Frances Kate Morgan, teacher and evangelist in the Chinese Girls' Home, Victoria, which has existed for fourteen years in Victoria, for the i escue of Chinese and Japanese girls from houses of ill-fame," said : I don't think immigration unrestricted is advisable ; i£ is not so to the Chinese, and I know it .is bad for the country. I see no signs of the Chinese adopting our mode of life ; I think they are a menace to the public from their way of living, the way they herd together. In Japan they have individual homes. The Japanese practice polygamy ; they call them concubines. The children of the concubines are thought as much of as the children of the wife. Joseph Hunter, M.L.A., for Cariboo, vice-president and general superintendent of the E. and N. Railway, said : I hardly like to express any opinion as to further restriction of Chinese immigration. I do not think they are desirable citizens. I believe this would be a better country without them. I do not want to moralize too much on that point. If we could get along without them the country would be better off, I believe. Whether it could or not I am not prepared to say. My opinion is if the Chinese were prohibited from coining in in large numbers or prohibited from coming in altogether, it would not make any great difference in the industries of this country. If you restrict the Chinese I do not think you should allow the Japanese to come in. W. W. Perrin, of Victoria, Bishop of the Diocese of Columbia, said : I think the present immigration is not a desirable one for the country, because they are not the best representatives of the race. The presence of a transient population is inimical to the best interests of the country. The encroachments of these people on the ordinary occupations of the people of our country is also a dangerous and objectionable condition. Honest labour should be respected and is always respectable. I do not think they should be allowed to come as they have been coming. I do not think the Japanese are likely to degrade our own people. To Mr. Cassidy: Q. Is there anything which renders them objectionable from any standpoint but that of labour, or that their mode of life is likely to degrade our people 1—A. I do not know of anything of the kind against them in this country. David Spencer, Dry Goods Merchant, said : I think further immigration of Chinese into the country would be very detrimental to the whole country. I am not in favour of further Chinese immigration. I think the Japanese would assimilate more with Europeans. I think them a better class of immigrants. Robert F. Green General Merchant, of Kaslo, M.L.A., for Slocan, said : I am of opinion that it would be better for the Dominion Government to restrict immigration entirely. My opinion is that the Japanese are worse than the Chinese. I say that from the fact that I have made some little study of the question. Edward Musgrave, farmer, who has other means and does not make his living by farming, said : Under present circumstances I would have no restriction at all with reference to the Chinese. As to the Japanese, I do not see any necessity for restriction as far as it has gone. Rev. Canon Beanlands, Clergyman of Church of England, said: I think the Chinese will always remain servile labour. It has been found in the interest of every country nearly, at some period or other, to have a servile class employed in its development. It was chiefly servile owing to the presence of what might be almost called absolute slavery, and the nearest approach to slavery in our country is the servile Chinese, the coolie class of Chinese that we have here. I think the Chinese are preferable to the Japanese because they are non assimilative. I think there is greater danger from the Japanese than from the Chinese, and I think there should be some restriction. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 225 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Noah Shakespeare, postmaster of Victoria, said: I do not think the Chinese make for the interests of the country. It is the very opposite I think. They are an objectionable class of people for a new country, or for any country. Captain Edward Berkley, R.N., said: I am not in favour of Chinese in this country; God forbid I should be in favour of anything of the kind, but he is required temporarily. He is far more decent than he is given credit. Michael Finerty, farmer, said : I do not think they are desirable in the country at all; the quicker we get rid of the Chinese the better. I do not object to the Japanese as much as I object to the Chinese, but stiH I want white people to come into the country and make homes for themselves. Alexander Wilson, plumber and tinsmith, said: I do not believe in restriction at all; I am a freetrader. I do not believe in keeping goods or any people out of the country. NANAIMO At Nanaimo thirty-three witnesses were called, including the general manager of the New Vancouver Coal Company, lumbermen, tradesmen, miners, mechanics, medical men, the president of the board of trade, the mayor, and other prominent citizens, and the result of the evidence shows a practical unanimity for either high restriction or total exclusion of the further immigration of Chinese. There are comparatively few Japanese in Nanaimo, and while they were regarded as likely to become keener competitors in the labour market, they were viewed somewhat more favourably by some, inasmuchas they were said to more readily adopt our habits and customs. CUMBERLAND AND UNION MINES. At Cumberland and Union Mines fifteen witnesses were called, including the general manager of the Wellington CoUiery Company and the local manager of the Union Mines the mayor, police magistrate, and other citizens. The general manager of the Wellington CoUiery was in favour of free immigration of Chinese labour; the local manager favoured partial restriction; all the other white witnesses called favoured either higher restriction or exclusion, except the Presbyterian Missionery to the Chinese, who did not consider a head tax just, and considered that the fact of the Chinese being in the country was evidenoe that they were required. There did not seem to be much distinction in the views presented between the Chinese and Japanese. VANCOUVER. I think we have enough Chinese John Murray, government timber agent, said here now. As to the Japanese, I think just the same; we have enough of them here now; we do not want any more. Robert James Skinner, timber inspector, said: Personally I am in favour of the exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese. From an individual point of view I am of opinion that it would be the best thing for the country, and now is the best time I think to introduce it; I mean total prohibition for both Chinese and Japanese. Robert Marrion, health inspector of the City of Vancouver, said : I prefer to have men here who spend their money in the country and intend to live in the country and make good citizens. I feel that the Japanese immigration is far more of a menace to the country than the Chinese. Robert T. Burtwell, dominion fisheries guardian, said : I think it would be a good thing for the country if*Mongolians were excluded from coming here. If they are allowed to come here any further the result will be the driving of the white man out of the 54—15 226 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 country. I think it would be better for the country if there were fewer Chinese and Japanese here, and we had more of a white population; white population is what we want. Dr. I. M. MacLean, Medical Health Officer for the City of Vancouver, said: Q. Do you favour the exclusion of the Chinese from this country?—A. Not as a whole, not in a general way; I favour the exclusion of the lower class of Chinese. Q. You mean the Chinese labouring class ?—A. Well, with some exceptions. Of course there are many of our Chinese here that I think it. would be unfair and wrong to ' exclude. * Q. It is not the intention to send those home who are here ?—A. Well, the ordinary class I would have them excluded. Q. Does the same rule apply to the Japanese ?—A. Not so strictly. Q. Well, from the standpoint of the interest of the nation, how do you look at it? —A. I am only speaking now from the standpoint of sanitation altogether. Albert Edward Beck, registrar of the Supreme Court said: I think it expedient to prevent further immigration of the Chinese of the coolie class. I believe the Japanese should be restricted. Richard Henry Alexander, manager of the Hastings Lumber Mill, said : Q. Are you in favour of further immigration of the Chinese ?—A. I think that information should come from some person who employs them. Q. Would you care to express an opinion on that subject ?—A. No. If you want to know my opinion from a political aspect I say personally I should far rather prefer to have white men as citizens. I would not like to see the Chinese and Japanese obtain the franchise. I would not like to see our country governed by them. I should not like to see any further immigration of them to enter into competition with white men. They would not adapt themselves to our political economy. There is no chance of their becoming citizens in the real sense of the term. The Japanese do assimilate to a greater extent than the Chinese. Henry Depencier, Lumber Mill Manager, said : There is sufficient Japanese labour here now. I do not employ Chinese. James W. Hackett, partner in the firm of Hackett and Robertson, Sawmill and Sash and Door Factory, said : I would not like to see the country overrun with Chinese. I think there are more Chinese in the country now than are properly employed. I do not think $100 will keep them out. I have no particular view on the subject. I have tried during the time I have been in the country to keep clear of them as far as I possibly can. I do not think*it desirable that the lower class o& common*labour should be filled with people who do not assimilate with the white race. I think the present is the most favourable time to change. There are enough of Chinese here now. I suppose you have to be guided some by public opinion ; you know it is very strong in this country— public opinion—especially on the Chinese and Japanese question it is very strong. Havelock H. Spicer, manager of the Spicer Shingle Mill, said : Q. Do you think any further restriction should be imposed ?—A. Well that is another question. The probabilities are in the present condition of the industry, if the present numbers were kept up, we might experience no difficulty, but we certainly must have a certain kind of cheap labour to do that work. James A. McNair, shingle and lumber manufacturer, said : I think if the Chinese were allowed to increase the same in proportion as the whites it would be all that was required, but that I am afraid is not possible unless other industries spring up faster than they are doing. Looking at it from a national point of view I would rather see all white men here. Edward H. Heaps, of the firm of E. H. Heaps & Co., lumber and shingle manufacturers and merchants, said : Q. Do you favour any further restriction on the immigration of Chinese ?—A. I think if we have protection all through the country in every line of business, men who have only their labour as their capital ought to be protected too. I would not have any objection to the restriction of Chinese, to the restriction of any more coming in, but we have to have a certain number here for the labour that we have to offer ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Chinese now. I think we have a sufficient number sufficient now. I am satisfied with it as it is. Robert Charles Ferguson, manager of the Royal City Planing Mills, said: Q. Do you favour restriction?—A. I do not know whether I would or not. It may be well to restrict for a time, but a man has to be governed by the wants of his business. John Valentine Cook, tallyman, lumber rater and inspector, said : I favour restriction both of Chinese and Japanese. My idea is that the Japanese are more dangerous than the Chinese. It is my opinion that $100 does not prevent them very much from ■coming in. Q. Why would you exclude them ?—A. Because I think we have enough white labour to do the work they are doing, and white people make good citizens and the Chinese and Japanese do not. Stephen Ramage, saw-filer, said: I think it would be a benefit to the country if more restriction were put on; I think it would have a tendency to stop the immigration. I think there is a sufficient number of them here to supply all the demands of labour for some years to come. The Japanese are fast becoming a greater menace to the white population than the Chinese will ever get to be. The Japanese are more able-bodied and they are quicker to adapt themselves to their surroundings. Arthur C. Gordon, shingle manufacturer, said : I favour restriction on Chinese immigration; I think we have enough of the Chinese here now. That applies to thes Japanese more than to the Chinese. I favour the exclusion of both Chinese and Japanese. I think as the white population increases the Chinese and Japanese population should decrease, and finally there will be no more Chinese or Japanese here. Stephen N. Jarrett, manager of the Vancouver Sash and Door Factory, said: Q. Are you in favour of restriction so far as the Chinese are concerned ?—A. I am to a limited extent. I would be in favour of a heavy head tax; I would say $500 •apiece. If they wish to pay that let them come in. If no more Chinese and Japanese come in I do not think there would be any serious inconvenience. William C. Dickson, formerly bookkeeper and yard foreman in the Royal City Mills, said: I am in favour of further restriction on Chinese immigration to the extent to keep them out entirely; that applies to Japanese as well. I think the presence of Japanese here injures the labouring man fully as bad, if not worse, than the Chinese. Alfred Totterman, fisherman, said: In regard to race, they are a class of people who are apart from the white race altogether. They do not associate with white people; they cannot assimilate with white people; they are detrimental to white people, especi- -aUy to the labour element in our community. There is a wide difference between them and the whites. They enter into a very unjust competition with the white people, and their presence here and their mode of living is bringing down the standard of living here so low, that white people cannot go to work and compete with them. This refers to both Chinese and Japanese. Captain John L. Anderson, fisherman, said: The present head tax may keep out a few, but not many. I do not -know that you can exclude them altogether according to national law, but if there is any way to exclude them, either by increasing the tax to $500 or in any other way, I say they ought to be excluded altogether. The Japanese are certainly a greater menace than the Chinese to the white race*; they are taking the places of white men in all branches of business. James Thomas Smith, farmer, said : The immigration of Chinese and Japanese retards the development of the country. I certainly think if they were replaced by a white population it would tend to develop the industries of the country faster than it is being developed by the Chinese and Japanese now. Granting them the franchise would likely lead to rebellion. This witness gave strong evidence opposed to the Chinese and Japanese. John McCarthy, contractor and stevedore, said : I think we ought to stop further immigration of the Chinese. All Captain Anderson said in regard to the Chinamen is perfectly correct; I confirm it. They are taking the place of the whites. We have got 54-15^ HP*"- 228 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 a large area of country here, and every man in the country would benefit by white people being here in place of Chinese and Japanese. I prefer the whites whenever I can get them. I have no use for the Chinese and Japanese. Peter Smith, fisherman, native born half-breed, said : I complain that people who are born in this country are being driven out of it by the Chinese and Japanese. We cannot live as they do; we have to live on wholesome food. George Gill, brickyard foreman, said: I do not look upon the Chinese as desirable citizens. Their presence will drive the white labouring men out of the country. I favour absolute exclusion. My opinion is the sooner the Chinese go from the country the better. Abel Wemkem, proprietor of the 12th avenue brickyard, said : I prefer exclusion, not restriction. I would not permit them to come into the country at all. White men should be protected. I do not see that there is any difference between the Chinese and Japanese. Francis Williams, journeyman tailor, said : When I came to the city twelve years ago I certainly was in sympathy with both Chinese and Japanese because I had heard in my own country of the hardships they suffered in their own country and the extreme poverty they lived in, and I thought they had as much right as anybody else to better their condition by coming here. I still have sympathy for both of those people, but they should act so as others could live as well as they can in the country. If they would require the same remuneration as white people do there would be no trouble at all. Observing the circumstances as I have done for the last few years, I have come to the conclusion that unless this oriental immigration into the province is stopped we will have to face race questions such as have had to be faced in the south and in other places. That, gentlemen, I wish you to understand is my firm conviction, and I am further persuaded that should there come a number of years of bad trade in the province, that serious results will probably follow. These results would not be long delayed, and the sooner the immigration of this oriental people is stopped the s better it will be for the country, and I think that all legitimate means should be employed to prevent serious trouble in the future. The Japanese are more to be feared than the Chinese as competitors. William Daniels, farmer, said : I used to farm about 67^ acres, but after a while I rented it to a Chinaman. I own that amount of land. I just work five acres myself now. I rent between thirty-five and forty acres to the Chinaman; I get $415 cash a year. Q. Are you in favour of any further restriction against any more Chinese coming here?—A. No, sir. Q. You think $100 a head is tax enough ?—A. That is for the Government to say; I cannot express any opinion at all on that. This is a new country. I do not tnink the $100.tax enough. I think I have signed a paper to go to Ottawa to put on a tax of $500. I think there were enough Chinamen in the country then and I think there are enough in the country now. s Angus M. Stewart, of Clubb & Stewart, clothing manufacturers, said : Q. Are you in favour of further restriction being •imposed on the Chinese ?—A. I have no use for them here. I do not think the present restriction is sufficient. I favour exclusion. I do not think they should come in here at any price. I believe in treating them well when they are here, but I do not want any more to come here. As to the Japanese, I would be in favour of keeping them out just as much as I am in favour of keeping out the Chinese, because if they are not restricted they will very soon become as great a nuisance as the Chinese as far as I can make out. J. H. Watson, boiler-maker by trade, officer of Customs, Vancouver, said : Certainly, things are connected with the Chinese and Japanese immigration which I do not consider are right, and the sooner the Government does something to right this thing ., OO o the better, or our province will soon be depleted of the best of our white men. William Lawrence Fagan, provincial assessor and collector for the County of Vancouver, said : I regard the present restriction as sufficient. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 229 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q- Are you in favour of further restriction of Japanese ?—A. If you had something to put in their places I would restrict more of them coming here, but not until we have other men to take their places. The Japanese do not seem to care about making homes'here ; they do not take up land ; they do not seem to care about settling here; they come here and make a few hundred dollars and then go back to Japan. Johannus Buntzen, manager of the British Columbia Electric Railway Company, said : Q. Are you in favour of any restriction on Chinese immigration ?—A. Wejl, I never thought the matter over sufficiently to say; I cannot say. We do not employ them. Truman Smith Baxter, ex-alderman, student-at-law, said : I am in favour of prohibition of further immigration of Chinese. This applies to both Chinese ahd Japanese. John M. Bowell, collector of customs, said : I am a civil servant and do not care to give an opinion. I am in favour of the Natal Act. Benjamin P. Rogers, manager of the Sugar Refinery, said : Q. Do you favour the exclusion of Chinese ?—A. I would hate to be without a cook. Q. Would you favour the passing of an Exclusion Act to prevent them coming here ?—A. No I would not, because we require them as cooks. Q. Would you favour an increase in the head tax ?—A. I cannot answer any ques- ion of that kind. < Q. Would you favour an Exclusion Apt applied to the Japanese ?—A. It would be impossible to exclude the Japanese. The Imperial Government would never agree to that. Andrew Linton, boat-builder, said : I would favour an Exclusion Act for the Chinese. I put the Japanese on the same basis. I think they are more dangerous to the country than the Chinese. Henry Munden, boat builder, said : I favour the exclusion of both Chinese and Japanese. Alfred Wallace, ship and boat builder, said : I would be in favour of further restriction : I would be opposed to further immigration of either Chinese or Japanese. Richard Marpole, superintendent of Coast Division Canadian Pacific Railway, said: Q. Have you any view to express on the question of Chinese immigration, as to whether that should be restricted or not ?—A. I do not think I would care to express an opinion. Q. Have you any view in regard to the Japanese ?—A. I do not care to express an opinion as to either of them. Alfred Raper, miner from Texada Island, said : I favour the exclusion of Chinese. I consider them a detriment to the growth of the country. I look upon Chinese and Japanese in the same way. The Rev. E. E. Scott, pastor of the Homer Street Methodist Church, Vancouver, said : I really think it would be the part of wisdom to have them (the Chinese) remain in their own country. In the interests of British Columbia I think it is necessary for our Government to do something for the protection of white labour. This iS his natural home and it should be protected for him. Q. Do you hold the same view with regard to the Japanese in respect to immigration ?—A. Yes, I think it is not a desirable immigration. Rev. R. G. McBeth, Presbyterian Minister, said : Q. What is your view as to Chinese immigration or restriction ?—A. In regard to the immigration I have observed coming to western Canada as a general thing, any alien race coming here that remains separate and distinct and refuses to adopt our manners and customs is more or less of a menace to the country, the menace being in proportion as that nationality remains isolated. I would prefer not having any more of them here. 230 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 What I have said applies practically with equal force to Japanese. I cannot say I see much difference between them, as some people seem to see. The Rev. John Reid, Presbyterian Minister, said : My opinion is that it would be preferable to exclude for a season all Chinese immigration into this particular province. There might come conditions in which it might be advisable to relax the exclusion, but at the present time I am of the opinion from all that has come before me that we are not assimilating the foreign element now in our midst to such an extent as to justify our continuing to receive this element, if it is possible to avoid it. Q. Do you make any distinction between the Chinese and Japanese ?—A. I have formed a more favourable opinion of the Japanese as a class ; to me they are a better class of people than the class of Chinese we have here on the coast. Rev. Dr. Roland D. Grant, formerly of Boston and afterwards of Portland, Oregon, said : If you go down to the root of the matter it must centre itself in the question of the family; the Chinese coming here as they are coming, without families, must have a deteriorating tendency, and the conditions under which the Chinese live here do not favour the introduction of their families. Restriction has a tendency to develop the faniily more in the long run. I do not think the introduction of an Exclusion Act would produce any serious shock, not at all. The operation of such an act would be very gradual; it would not be rapid. Its effect upon the Chinese themselves would be beneficial. Its effect upon the Chinese Government I do not think would be injurious at all. I have had a good deal of conversation with many of the prominent Chinese that I came in contact with in the United States, and I never found any of them find any fault with the Exclusion Act in the United §tates ; I mean that is the feeling amongf the higher class of Chinese. I do not think it would have any effect upon the commercial relations between the two countries. John Morton, carpenter, secretary of the Parliamentary Committee of the Trades and Labour Council, said : The membership of the unions affiliated with the council that were communicated with by circular as to Chinese and Japanese immigration represented 24 different unions with a membership of 1,800. The result was strong opposition to the Chinese and Japanese in every case. As far as I can make up from the gist of the communications, they were all in favour of exclusion. If something is not done very soon there will be developed such a feeling as was developed in New South Wales many years ago when the conditions were not nearly so bad as they are in British Columbia to-day. No one wishes to see anything of the kind take place here, but much as I would regret it, my impression is it will take place if something is not done very soon to alter existing conditions. Walter Taylor, fruit canning, said : I am* in favour of further restriction on Chinese immigration; $100 is no good. I think it ought to be higher than that. Whatever would prevent them coming in freely I would favour that. I think we have too many Japanese here now. Frank Burnett, president of the United Canneries Co., Ltd., said : Sentimentally I am in favour of restriction, but from a business point of view I would favour restriction to a certain extent. I do not think the increase of the tax from $50 to $100 amounts to anything. I think a higher poll tax would be advisable. It would not absolutely exclude Chinese but it would prevent such a large number coming in. I am inclined to think too many have come in. It is hard to say what to suggest; $300 I think would certainly tend to keep a large number from coming in. I do not think it would keep them from coming in altogether. I think there are enough Japanese here now. I think the same remarks I made about the Chinese apply to the Japanese, that is regarding the numbers. I think the desired further restriction of Japanese could be obtained by negotiations. Henry O. Bell-Irving, manager of the Anglo-British Columbia Packing Company,, that have canneries on the Fraser River, Skeena River, Rivers Inlet, Puget Sound and Alaska, and manager of the Automatic Can Factory, said : Q. You would prefer to see restriction taken off ?—A. Yes, I do not think it is good to have any restrictions put upon the labour of the country. Supposing restriction were introduced, further restriction, as long as we had the present supply of cheap ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 231 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 labour we could get along. If there was exclusion I think it would make the conditions very acute within the next few years. Q. Would you favour restriction of the Japanese 1—OA I am rather for free trade in labour for some time to come ; I believe it would be the best policy. I look upon the Chinese as an instrument for the development of the country and the advancement of the white men. I look upon them, the same as I look upont machinery, steam engines and any other machinery to aid in the development of the country. Samuel McPherson, merchant tailor and member of the Merchant Tailors' Association, said : I am in favour of further restriction ; we can get on very nicely without any more of them. As to the Japanese, as far as this province is concerned, I think it would be a good thing if they were restricted. Alexander McCallum, merchant tailor, member of the Merchant Tailors' Association, said : The Merchant Tailors' Association as a whole are opposed to further Chinese iinniigration, and to Japanese immigration as well. I may say we did not discuss that so particularly. I am opposed to further Chinese immigration. I do not think the Chinese are desirable citizens. John W. Hay, in charge of the social operation of the • Salvation Army for Vancouver, to furnish food and shelter and temporary employment for the unemployed, said : If white men only could get a chance I sincerely believe they would come here. I would not wish to see any of my folks coming here unless they were pretty sure of something substantial and lasting. Donald M. Stewart, proprietor of the Pioneer Steam Laundry, said : Q. Are you in favour of further restriction of Chinese immigration ?—I am in favour of getting them out altogether. o o o The Government should give the same restriction on the Japanese. Gordon W. Thomas, gardener and rancher, presented resolution passed at a meeting of the Farmers' Institute of Cedar Cottage District: That it is a serious detriment to the successful prosecution of our industry as farmers to have so many Chinese here. I think something should be done and done at once to. stop the further flow of Chinese and Japanese into this country. The one is just as injurious to the settling of the country as the other. W. A. Cum Yow, a Chinese born in British Columbia, interpreter, corresponding foreign secretary of the Chinese Empire Reform Association of Canada, said : It seems to me that the Orientals are enabling the capitalists to carry on business which directly benefits all classes in the community. Nicolai C. Schou, assistant editor of the Daily News Advertiser, Vancouver, and for nine years reeve of Burnaby, said: Personally I would favour almost total exclusion. I believe from my experience in England and here that if there was an exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese a large amount of cheap white labour would flow in gradually, sufficient to meet all commercial requirements. I would favour an increase of the poll tax to the Australian limit of $500. The danger I apprehend is mainly the driving out of ordinary white labour from our province. Personally I think the Japanese will settle the Chinese question by coming in here in such numbers as to drive the Gbinese out. I think that the future will be Japanese in place of Chinese. The Japanese difficulty will be a constantly increasing element. I would rather see two (Chinese come in than one Japanese. I would like to see further exclusion, but I think a country like Japan might reasonably be asked to consider that. I think that from four hundred to five hundred per annum of the Japanese of the labour element can be absorbed without detriment. I am simply suggesting that as my opinion. I cannot say my opinion is based on very close calculation. The Honourable James Reed, Senator, Cariboo, said: I do not wish to express an opinion as to whether •there should be further restriction. I am under the impression that restriction would have very little effect. * If you put on $500 it would have a restrictive tendency. 232 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 As to the Japanese, I think as far as labour is concerned they are a greater danger than the Chinese. I think if restriction is applied to the Chinese it should be applied! to the Japanese as well. NEW WESTMINSTER. James George Scott, mayor of New Westminster, lumber and shingle manufacturer; representing nine shingle mills for the sale of their output, said : The Chinese will never become good citizens of the country. I have a strong objection to the Chinese which my residence on the coast has not removed. 1 think they are an undesirable element both from a national and a sentimental point of view. I think the feeling against the Chinese is much stronger than that against the Japanese. I think the poll tax of $100 will have no effect whatever. Q. Having regard to the various industries, in the interests of the country which is more desirable ?—A. In the interests of the country a $500 tax will be more desirable. Alexander Cruickshank, who has a contract to settle a large tract of land on the Fraser, said : I would be in favour of any measure in the direction of exclusion, I draw 3 */ no distinction between Chinese and Japanese. Alexander Ewen, canner, said: Q. Age you in favour of any restriction on Chinese immigration ?—A. I do note interfere with matters of that kind at all. Politics is not my business. The Chinese do not hurt me. I have no view to express because I cannot tell whether it would be good or bad. James Anderson, canner, said : My opinion is to get rid of both the Chinese and the Japanese if the conditions will allow it. I think you could do better without the Japanese than you can without the Chinese. I would like to see nothing but white labour in the country. I am speaking personally, not from a business standpoint. We would build up the country much quicker with white labour. The Chinese supply a certain class of cheap labour that you cannot now fill with white men, but that would soon remedy itself. I say there is no time like the present. The remedy will have to come some time. I suppose you may as well begin now. Lewis A. Lewis, manager of the Brunette Sawmill, said : Q. What is your own view in regard to further Chinese immigration ?—A. Well, I do not think we could get along without the Japanese in the lumber business. Q. What do you think about the Chinese ?—A. I do not want to give an opinion on that, because it does not concern me. I think I could get along without the Chinese. I am speaking from a mill standpoint. Of course, Chinese are as important to some mills as Japanese are to us. I do not care to express an opinion as to Chinese immigration. •• Robert Jardine, manager of the Royal City Planing Mills, New Westminster, said: Speaking generally, I prefer, white men to Chinese or Japanese for our work. Q. Why would you prefer the white people ?—A. Because they are our own people. I consider it would be an advantage to the people, and that would be one very good reason. Q. If the immigration of Chinese was restricted, if there was a further restriction, would it affect your trade, your industry here ?—A. I really cannot say. We have got to have a certain amount of cheap labour; it does not matter whether Chinese or Japanese or what it is, under existing conditions. Alexander Philip, secretary of the Richmond Farmers' Institute, it embraces Richmond municipality, Burnaby, South Vancouver, and No«th Vancouver and northwards on the coast. He said: I have a resolution from the section represented by Central Park. From personal knowledge of various members of the institute, from personal interviews with them, it expresses the general view very well. I may say there is a somewhat strong consensus of opinion among them regarding the matter. It expresses my own view as well. The resolution contains this clause : *' We believe that there should be a'tax of not less than $500 on each person of either race (Chinese and Japanese) entering the country, and also a rigid educational test.' ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 233 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Henry Thomas Thrift, secretary of the Settlers' Association of British Columbia, its object to assist in re-settling the lands that are at present vacant; there are seventeen branches scattered all over the province, with a membership of 700 or 800. He said : I am sufficiently acquainted with the views of the members of the association to express their views on the question of Chinese immigration. As far as I have learned from the members, the majority of them are decidedly against any increase in oriental immigration Any distinction as far as I have been able to decide is that the Japanese are more dangerous than the Chinese, on account of their superior intelligence. William James Brandrith, secretary of the fruit growers' association, said : I may say I do not appear here to-day as representative of the fruit growers' association, but from my associations with the members I believe they are all in favor of total prohibition of any further immigration of that class here. It applies equally to the Chinese and Japanese. I regard them as a very undesirable class to be in the country from any standpoint. Edmund A. Atkin, reeve of Coquitlam, said: I think $100 ought to be nearly sufficient to keep them out, It is just this way, if we go to work to get all the Chinese and Japanese out of the country, it will raise the wages to such an extent that the farmer cannot possibly live. You have got $100 of restriction, but then you should have an educational test as well. • John Armstrong, reeve of Surrey, said : Have lived here for twenty-two years. I believe the general view is in favour of restriction or exclusion. Heretofore they have not been a great detriment to the farmer, but now the opinion held is almost universal that absolute restriction would be advisable., ^hite labour would be more easily got if ♦there was a less number of Chinese arid Japanese in the country. Q. Does that apply to Japanese as well as Chinese?—A. Oh, yes, fully as much. I believe the Japanese will adapt themselves more quickly to our modes of living than the Chinese will. . ., The Rev. John Perry Bowell, minister of the Methodist Church, said: I consider the immigration of Chinese and Japanese to be detrimental to the labour interests of the country, mainly because a great many avenues of industry where white people used to be largely employed are now being monopolized by Chinese and Japanese. Their presence has the effect of practically stopping white people coming here. From a national standpoint they are very undesirable. They will never form any part of our nation. The sooner the remedy is applied the better. \ Q Do you make any distinction between the Chinese and Japanese as to their injurious effect %—A. I do; I think from the fact that the Japanese is better qualified to adapt himself to the conditions prevailing here makes him a greater menace than the Chinese to our own labouring people. j A number of fishermen and labourers ga^e evidence, who were all m favour ot tne exclusion of Chinese and Japanese. We were attended by the Indian chiefs representing the principal tribes ot tne coast Indians, who protested vigorously against the immigration of both Chinese and Japanese. As they were affected principally by the encroachment of the Japanese m the fisheries, reference may be had to the chapter on that subject for a fuller statement of their views. , We have quoted so large a number of coast witnesses upon this subject because we did not desire to leave it in doubt as to what was the prevailing opinion with regard to further restriction or exclusion of Chinese immigration. With regard to the upper country we do not deem this course necessary because, having examined a number ot witnesses at Kamloops, Revelstoke, Vernon, Rossland, Nelson, Kaslo and Sandon, comparatively few of whom were labourers, but who represented the leading business men and employers and professional men of these localities, we found the opinion_ to be almost unanimous that further immigration of Chinese was not desirable, and that it possible it should be excluded, either by a higher head tax or total prohibition ot the labouring class of Chinese. [ . , n, . The Rev Dr. J. C. Thompson, who has charge of the missionary work to the Unnese at Montreal, has favoured the Commission with a letter which contains the following: —** 234 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 , As to the Chinese Exclusion Law, having seen its workings over many years in Canada, the United States and China, *my conviction is that it is wrong in principle, contrary to the Golden Rule, unjust and short-sighted in policy, and the cause of very much evil; and similarly of the $100 tax. If an evil, why tax instead of prohibiting ? Their immigration is natural and a right all others enjoy; and that the Dominion Government should have forced from such specimens of suffering humanity a sum approaching $2,000,000 as a tax, knowing as I do their poverty and stricken circumstances, is to my mind a cause for repentance rather than any thought of increase or exclusion. The true and natural solution, and one at hand, is the development of China by Canada and other countries,—not forgetting that China shows greater changes in the past fifty years than any other country excepting Japan probably, also that not much longer than that ago at the birth of Queen Victoria there was not an inch of railway in progressive Great Britain. The Chinese church membership in Montreal in the. various churches is thirty- three, with a number received into church connection after leaving Montreal, and some dozen probationers, in the time of the mission—seven years: number of baptisms twenty- six, with a Christian Endeavour Society having a roll of forty-three members. There are about one hundred Chinese Christians east of Winnipeg, six just baptized at Toronto and five at Calgary during the month, with a number of candidates at some points in my district. A dozen have been in attendance at our public schools* with about a dozen more in eastern Canada. Their transitory character, inability of most to comprehend a regular discourse,, and opportunity of attendance frequently upon several classes on Sunday, and their desire for the acquirement of English, makes the Sunday school, therefore, the trainiag class and a notable feature in eastern Canada, where the churches manifest, such commendable interest in the enlightenment of these strangers—our language the arrow, religion its point. Such classes are found across Canada, some two hundred, eighteen in Montreal, seven in Toronto, three in Ottawa, two in Quebec, HalifaxpWinnipeg, &c. EXHIBIT 12. Colonel Francis B. Gregory, of Victoria, said: That the strength of the several corps in the province of British Columbia is as follows :— 5th Regiment, Canadian Artillery, headquarters, Victoria... 354 6th Regiment Rifles, headquarters, Vancouver . 253 ii ii New Westminster 101 ii Rocky Mountain Ranges, Rossland. . 45 it ii ii Nelson .. 45 ii H ii Kamloops.. 45 n n ii Kaslo .... 45 sKM H ii M Revelstoke 45 933 Individual inquiry would be necessary to ascertain the occupation of the members, but I verily believe that as to the 5th Regiment, Canadian Artillery, about one-fifth are labourers, a large proportion mechanics and artisans, and the others clerks in offices and business houses. I have no knowledge of the occupation of the members of the other corps within the province. I CHINESE OPINION. W". A. Cum Yow, a native born Chinese of British Columbia, presented a carefully prepared written statement from the point of view of the Chinese in British Columbia ; it.is as follows :. I was born at Port Douglas in this province in the year 1861. My parents are both Chinese. They have lived in the province for nearly 45 years. I was educated ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 235 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 in the province. I am corresponding foreign secretary of the Chinese Empire Reform Association of Canada. I have been in close touch with the Chinese all my life, and I am familiar with their modes of living and of doing business. There has been no systematic importation of Chinese into this province since the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway. At that time a large number were engaged and brought over. This was done by the Chinese contractors who were working under Mr. Onderdonk. Some of these men went back, but others had no means to pay their way back, and many who remained were in great straits for a long time. These men were all voluntarily hired, and were in no sense serfs. Serfdom is not practised among the Chinese. All who come here come free men and as a rule pay their own boat fare and entry tax. These are paid in Hong Kong to the steamboat agents before they start. I am certain none of the Chinese labour contractors here have sent money to pay for a number of Chinamen to come here. Occasionally, Chinamen have sent money to bring out relatives or personal friends, but that is the extent to which this is done. There is never any bond given for repayment of such advances, but where there is an understanding that repayment will be made it is always faithfully done. Chinese merchants have sometimes taken action to limit the number of those coming when they find there are too many here. They do this by communicating with the merchants in China, who have great influence with the labouring classes. They took this course two years ago when the labour market was over-supplied owing to the number of Japs who had come in. There are not so many Chinamen or Japs here at present as there were a year ago. Many of those who were here have gone over to the States where liberal wages are J O O being paid them, and they can do much better than here. Others have gone to the West Indies and settled there. Many of the Chinamen who previously went to the West Indies have made lots of money, and some of them have intermarried with the native races. There have been cases of importation of Chinese girls for immoral purposes, but not many. This has been the work of unscrupulous men, who, by gross misrepresentations, and a free use of money have led poor people to entrust them with the care of their daughters. Proportionately, I believe, there is nothing like the same number of such cases among the Chinese as among white people, but there are wicked and unscrupulous men among the Chinese as among other races. I do not think any Chinese parents would willingly give up their daughters for such purposes. The Chinese who are here usually congregate in one part of the city. The chief reason for this is for companionship. Besides the Chinese know that the white people have had no friendly feeling towards them for a number of years. This has been most apparent since the Canadian Pacific Railway construction days, and it has* been accentuated by those who since then have come into the province from all parts of the world, many of whom were not in touch with the Chinese before. This unfriendliness and want of respect has caused a feeling of want of confidence among the Chinese, and it certainly has not tended to induce them to abandon their own ways and modes of life. It was very different before the date referred to, when a feeling of mutual confidence and respect prevailed, and all were able to work in harmony. This system of doing business also tends to keep them together, as it enables them the better to have their own social functions and.meetings. They have their own Board of Trade and other meetings as to their trade interests We have not here the faction element which prevails to some extent in San Francisco. There are now in this province strong branches of the Chinese Empire Reform Association of Canada. This association has been incorporated. Its objects are duly set forth in the accompanying copy of the constitution and by-laws. The Reform Association has branches all over the world where there are Chinamen. They wish to elevate the Chinese and to promote the prosperity of the old land. The work is carried on here largely by public meetings and addresses. Some of the members are most eloquent speakers. This work cannot be carried on yet in China itself, but we hope for great good to China from the movement, and also to be able to do something for the good of the Chinese who are here. The'association has also arranged for the translation of some. of the best books in the English language into Chinese for distri- _ O • O O IT* button among Chinamen in China and other parts of the world. They are also sending students to different seats of learning to be educated. The Chinese have always a very -— 236 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 high regard to their home land, and a strong filial affection. They sacrifice a great deal for themselves to be able to send money home to sustain their parents or their families, and if by any piece of good fortune or by success in gambling they make a large sum at any time, the larger part of that money will usually be sent to China for the use of their families. They do not spend it on themselves. There is proportionately a large amount of gambling among the Chinese. Some do gamble for large amounts, but more commonly the play is for amusement only, and for small sums to pass the time, as this is done in the common room of the boarding house, where all are assembled, though differently occupied. If a police raid is made and any are caught playing, all are arrested for gambling or looking on. If the same course were pursued in relation to white men, gamblers could be caught in some of the bar rooms, and of course all who were at the bar or in the room would be arrested as onlookers. Chinese use intoxicating liquors, but not often, and usually in moderation. They use all kinds of liquor. They sometimes use a Chinese wine, which serves as a tonic for the system. They very seldom get drunk or drink to excess. They regard all who are excessive drinkers as barbarians and beneath •/ O contempt. So strong is the feeling among them, that if any one should indulge too freely, they are heartily ashamed of it, and they at once go to bed. A certain number indulge in opim smoking, but only a small percentage of the whole. The habit is induced by companionship with those who use it. I have, seen white men in the Chinese quarter using opium, but not many of them here. The opium smokers realize the evil of the habit, but they are unable to break it off. The Chinese have a hospital for the treatment of sick men who are without means. It is a charitable institution, and is supported by voluntary subscriptions, contributed chiefly by the merchants. They have a Chinese doctor of their own, and he does the work for charity. The patients are cared for by the janitor of the hospital, and by their own friends. I have known of some cases of recovery there, but they generally go there as a last resort, hence the large percentage of deaths. In the boarding houses the attention is given to the sick. Of course those who have money secure better treatment than those who have none. It is not the case that any of the sick are neglected. They are cared for up to the ability of their friends, and after death they are given a proper burial by the undertakers at the friends' expense. I have never known a case of concealment of infectious disease among them. The Chinese have a very high regard for the marriage relationship. They usually marry at from sixteen to twenty years of age. Many of those who are here are married and have wives and children in China. A large proportion of them would bring their families here, were it not for the unfriendly reception they got here during recent years, which creates an unsettled feeling. Both spouses are, as a rule, faithful to each other, and the wife stays with the husband's relations, the money sent home by the husband is of use to them all. Often the family property has to be mortgaged to help the son to come here, and the first thing he does is to try to lift the mortgage. Divorce is unknown in China, and it is a very uncommon thing for spouses to separate their relations on any ground. As a nation, the Chinese are very anxious that their children be well educated. There has been no serious attempt in China to teach other than the Chinese language until recently. Now English is largely taken up, as they are coming more and more into contact with the English-speaking people. The desire to learn is not confined to any one class. The labouring or farming class are as anxious for education as the others, and they stand the same show to get it. The Chinese here are all anxious to have their children taught the same as other children are taught here. Re- garding prospects of assimilation, I do not think this will be easily or soon brought about. I do not favour the idea of intermarriage, aa the modes of life of the races are different in several respects, and it would not conduce to happiness. There are exceptional cases, such as where the parties have been brought up together or under similar conditions, but this seldom happens. Assimilation can only come through those who are born here, or at least are brought here in infancy, and are separated from the ideas of the old land and the mode of life there. For work, the Chinese are not so physically strong as the white people. This is due to the diet they take, but they are very patient and persevering workers, and they are quick in action. It therefore follows, that for ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 237 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 light work they excel the white people, but for heavy work white men have the advantage. Their wages vary considerably. In the canneries they get from $45 to $50 a month, but the month must consist of 26 days of 10 hours each of actual work. As day labourers they get about Si per day. Chinese farmers and laundrymen usually get from $10 to $20 per month and then board and lodging. In the cannery boarding-house the bosses supply the food and each is charged in proportion to the cost of it. This will amount to from $9 to $10 per month for each. The rule in regard to laundries applies to some other lines of light work. The boots and shoes and a large proportion of the clothing used by Chinamen are made in Canada or the United States. The silk goods and silk shoes come from China. They get some of their food stuffs from China, such as rice, which cannot be grown here. Rice is one of »the essential parts of their dietary. The Chinese are especially suited for [such as of their dietary. The Chinese are light work as in the laundries, cooks in hotels or camps service. domestic service. They have been engaged in such work as long as I can remember, and always received with favour by the employers. They are quick in action, and ready to do what they are told, and able to do a greater variety of work than a girl can do in mt ' O «/ O domestic service. In all my experience I have not heard of a Chinaman being indecent in his relation to the household where he works. As a rule they can be relied on and are very attentive to duty. The Chinese have been engaged largely in market gardening in this province for over thirty-five years, and they have during all those years been the chief source of supply of vegetables for our markets. They work late and early on their ground, and have it in a high state of cultivation, hence they can make a good living off ten acres of land. They have been engaged in the fish-canning work since the beginning of the industry over twenty-five years ago. They are thoroughly trained in all the different inside departments. I cannot see how they can be dispensed with, as so many hands are required, and all need a special training for the work. As a fact it would take years to train a sufficient number of white men or children. These could better do the work now done by Indians, but of course the Indians would resent this inroad on them. A great feature of their character is their frugality. In fact this is one of the chief complaints against them." They are trained to be frugal, and it seems to me a virtue rather than a cause of offence. True it enables them to save money and to send some of it to China to help their families there, but that is also a virtue. They are willing also to undertake work at a small wage rather than be idle, and they are O O •/ very careful to live within their income, whether it be large or small, that they may have some provision for idleness or illness. In this respect it seems to me, that they are superior to many white men who will not work unless they get a high pay, and are extravagant and even reckless in their expenditure of. the money they earn, who never think of providing for the future, and have very little consideration, even for their own wives and families. To some extent this may be due to the privileges the white men have of friendly and charitable societies to rely upon which are • not available for the Chinaman. My opinion is, that if the Chinese were accorded the same respect as others here, they would prove themselves to be good citizens, and they would settle in the land with their wives and families. Being thrifty they would save money, and that money would be judiciously used in the country. Certainly, if their families were here, they would have no occasion to send their money away. It is no pleasure for them to be separated from their families (in a good many cases for 15, 20 and 25 years). They come here to improve their circumstances, and they would only be too glad to have their families to enjoy with them any improvements that are available. Many of the chief opponents of the Chinese are comparatively new arrivals in the province, who have very little idea of the facts of the case. Some of these men are unwilling to work themselves, and they misspend the earnings they do make, yet they are eager to run down the Chinese who are willing to work and who do work hard, and are very careful of their hard-earned money. Men are coming here from all parts of the world and of all nationalities. As regards industry and thrift, the Chinese will compare favourably with any of them. In* many respects they are greatly superior to many of the men who come here during the canning season and claim the privilege of being British subjects. Some of these are wild, lawless drinking men who are a discredit 238 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 to any community. During the canning season, though a large number of Chinese congregate at Steveston and other points, they are all very orderly and obedient to the laws. Referring to cannery work, it is well known that the Chinese contractors each year enter upon very onerous contracts with the canners for labour, and that under these contracts large advances are made by the canners to the contractors before the work of the season begins. I do not know of one single instance where a Chinese contractor failed to carry out his contract in full. I know of many instances where they have done it at a heavy loss to themselves, but they did it honourably. As regards further immigration, I think the matter will always fully regulate itself. The Chinese merchants will always take care that too many do not come. It is a serious burden on them if they come anc1 do not get plenty of work. The head tax also presents a substantial barrier against them coining in present circumstances. I do not favour tthe existence of this tax. I think the same end could have been reached by diplomacy, as was done by the United States. I quite approve of certain conditions being attached to the granting of the franchise, such as are provided in the Natal Act, and that it be applicable to Japanese, Galicians, Italians and others all alike. I do think, however, that if the Chinese pay admission to this country, and if they have educational qualifications they should not only be allowed the privilege of the franchise, but be treated otherwise as men and as British citizens. Already the Chinese have done good work in placer mining, as they are content to work up claims deserted by the white miners, if they yield even $1.25 to $2 per day. There are great areas of such properties, and the reclamation of this gold is a valuable provincial asset, which would otherwise remain worthless. Besides mining this province has a vast territory, and many other undeveloped resources. It has, therefore, opening for a very large industrial population, and as the Chinese are, as already stated, industrious, thrifty and persevering, and always amenable to the laws of the land, as far as they understand them, they should make valuable citizens and greatly aid in the development of this great country. This is particularly true of the opening up of the agricultural land, as the Chinese are born agriculturists and are accustomed to make the very best of the soil. Their experience should therefore in agriculture be most valuable to enable this province to provide for its own wants as well as to become an exporting country. In view of the agitation being carried on by politicians and professional agitators against the Chinese here, it is a mystery to me as it must be to other observers that so many people in all ranks of life are so ready to employ Chinamen to do their work. Many of them are thus employed, and some at fairly high salaries, and this seems to nullify the allegations that they are either offensive or detrimental to the development of the country, It is as a fact a valuable testimonial of merit and proves that thay are needed in the country. In conclusion, my firm conviction is that the agitation which has arisen in connection with the orientals is more directed against the capitalists than against the Chinese themselves. They seem to think that the capitalists are benefitting from the labour of the orientals in a special manner; whereas it seems to me that the orientals are enabling the capitalists to carry on businesses which directly-benefit all classes in the community. It is true there are also those who seem to dislike the appearance of the Chinamen and their oriental ways of living and dressing, and there is a large unthinking class who condemn them because it has become a custom to do so. I have always urged the Chinamen to adopt the British mode of dress and living; and, judging from the experience of the Japanese, I am satisfied the Chinese would greatly benefit if they did so. The Rev. Tom Chue Thorn, native Chinese missionary at New Westminster, also prepared a statement, which will be found in chapter 5. A number of Chinese merchants also expressed their opinions on the question of Chinese immigration, and which are given below. Lee Cheong, president of the Chinese Board of Trade of Victoria,* said : Q. Are you opposed to any'further increase in the head tax?—A. No; I do not approve of it; I would rather have it taken off altogether. Q. You are opposed to any further increase in the tax ?—A. Yes ; I would rather have it taken off altogether, because we are a large nation and good friends with England. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 239 SESSIONAL PAPER "No. 54 Lee Mon Kow, Chinese Interpreter at the Custom House, Victoria, said: Q. If no more Chinese were allowed to come here, would it be better for those here ?—A. In a way it might be better; but of course it would affect the commercial business. Q. If the tax were put up $200 more would it stop immigration entirely ?—A. I should say so; the immigration would stop altogether. A tax of $200 more would stop them altogether. Yip On, merchant, and Secretary of the Chinese Board of Trade, Vancouver, said : Q. I suppose the Chinese do not want to be excluded from this country ?—A. No. Q. Wouldn't that make wages better for those who are here ?—A. I do not know; I do not think it has affected the merchant or the labourer ; the numbers here have not been increasing and some have gone back. Law A. Yam, secretary of the Chinese Board of Trade of New Westminster, said: I have some statement I would like to make to the Commission ; I know what I want to say, but I do not know that I can express myself very well in English. I want to speak about the $100 poll-tax the Chinamen coming into Canada have to pay. The Dominion Government used to collect a tax from 1886 down to January 1 last of $50 from each Chinaman coming into British Columbia ; they were going to allow a six O ' J o O months' certificate to go home to China, and when they ran out they would have to pay $50 more. On January 1, 1901, this tax was increased to $100. I know myself many of other nations come into Canada and pay no head tax at all; I think myself they ought to put a tax on the others if they put it on the Chinese; I do not understand why there should be a tax on my countrymen and not on the others. You say, some say, the reason why they tax the Chinese is, that too many Chinese come here and they J 7 J J J J work too cheap, and that is the reason they try to stop them altogether ; I understand the .Imperial Government make a treaty with our Government, the Chinese Government, to let all the Chinese who wish, go into any part of the British Empire, in commercial work of any kind; the British people can go into China and do the same thing, but they say there are too many Chinese here, and that they work too cheap, and so people do not like them much. They say the Chinese come into Canada and work too cheap and hurt the country. I say no, I believe the Chinese in this Canada is a benefit to the country, and a benefit to the Government. What is the reason they benefit the Government; well, they paid $50 for eachOhinaman who came in here, and from January 1 last they pay $100, and that benefits the Government, because the Government gets the money from them, and the Chinese come in here to work for the benefit of the country. I hope the Government will not further increase the tax on the Chinese. Kwong Wing Chong, merchant, of Nelson, said : Q. Do you think the $100 tax plenty to keep out Chinese?—A. It keep out Chinese all the same. Q. Would you like to see plenty of Chinese coming to this country ?—A. Me don't care. Q. Suppose no more Chinese come you get better wages ?—A. That is better for me. Q. Would you like that ?—A. Yes. Q. Do you think a $300 tax would keep them out altogether ?—A. I cannot say. Q. Do you think a $500 tax would keep them out altogether ?—A. The $500 tax in New South Wales keeps them out. Q. You do not care whether they keep them out or not ?—A. No. Chong Lee, merchant, Kamloops, said : Q. Do you think the $100 tax too much?—A. I think it is too much. Q. Do you think lots of men would come here supposing there were no $100 tax ?— They would come easier, I suppose. A Q. Do you think $100 keeps lots of men out pay $100. SUMMARY. -A. Yes, they wont come here and The following facts have been made clear: 1. That the Chinese do not assimilate with the white race in British Columbia, and it would not be desirable if they did. 240 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 2. That it is not desirable to give them the franchise, as they are not and will not become citizens in the proper sense of the term or an integral part of the nation. 3. Of the witnesses called less than half a score were in favour of unrestricted immigration. Of the rest, a few took the view that the tax now imposed was, for the present, at all events, sufficient, but the general concensus of opinion was in favour of higher restriction, or total exclusion, a few favouring the Natal Act. Reference must be had to the chapters dealing with the various industries, so far as the question concerns them ; but the undoubted fact remains that the great mass of the white people of British Columbia of all professions, trades and callings, and the Indians, are not favourable to the Chinese, and desire further immigration of the labour class excluded. It is entirely erroneous to suppose, as has been in some quarters suggested, that this view obtains mainly with the labouring classes. In the foregoing evidence referred to in this chapter, it will be seen that comparatively few of that class have been called, for the reason that their views were well known, and it was considered especially desirable to bring out the views of other classes of citizens. Of the 131 witnesses quoted in this chapter, 40 are employers, 44 professional men and others, of whom 9 are ministers, 18 merchants, 14 farmers and market gardeners, and 15 employees. Of the total number 77 were in favour of exclusion, 36 higher restriction, 5 for the statu quo, 7 declined to express a definite opinion, and 6 in favour of unrestricted immigration. The following analysis will indicate more accurately the views of citizens. Of the witnesses called, not quoted, even a larger proportion favoured exclusion or higher restriction. Of the employers 11 were in favour of exclusion, 15 of higher restriction, 4 leaving the matter as at present with $100 head tax, 4 in favour of no restriction, and 7 who declined to express an opinion. Of the merchants, 11 favoured exclusion, 4 higher restriction, 1 leaving the tax as at present, and 2 favoured unrestricted immigration. Of the professional class and others not employers and employees, 35 favoured exclusion, 4 higher restriction, 2 the present tax, and 2 unrestricted immigration. Of the farmers and market gardeners, 8 favoured exclusion, 5 higher restriction, and 1 non-restriction. Comparatively few farmers were called because they were represented by their various societies, all of which favoured exclusion or higher restriction. The employees, skilled and unskilled, favoured exclusion or higher restriction, and it may be noted that the ministers were decided in their expression of their opinion, that the Chinese were an undesirable class and, with one exception, favoured the prohibition of further immigration of the labouring class of Chinese. CHAPTER XXIIL—TRADE WITH CHINA. Our total trade with China in 1896 amounted to $1,690,456. It had fallen in 1900 to $880,740. ! The imports which in 1896 were $1,030,698 ($342,071 dutiable, $688,62? free) had dropped in 1900 to $624,433 ($211,730 dutiable, $412,703 free). The exports which were $659,758 in 1896, had fallen to $256,307 in 1900. Doubtless the war in China may in part account for this, but an examination of the tables throws further light upon the question. In 1896 we imported $71,642 of sugar and molasses; in 1900 only $8,143. In 1896 we imported $676,388 worth of tea, which had fallen in 1900 to $391,411. These two items make nearly the whole difference in imports. The other two principal items of import are rice and opium, the first of which increased from $54,000 in 1896 to $81,000 in 1900, and crude opium which dropped from $123,690 in 1896 to $1,541 in 1900. The falling off in tea and sugar-was probably fully accounted for by larger imports from other countries. In 1896 we imported $221,000 worth of tea from British East India, in 1900, $1,148,000 worth. We imported sugar in 1896 from the United States $244,000; in ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 2il SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 1900 over $1,000,000 ; in 1896 from Belgium a little less than $400,000, and in 1900 over $2,250,000. The two chief items of exports are cotton manufactures and lumber. In 1896 we exported $54,9,000 worth of cotton and cotton manufactures, and $88,000 of lumber, making a total of $637,000 out of a total export trade of $659,000. In 1900 the cotton manufactures had fallen to $101,000, and lumber had increased to $116,000. There was also a falling off in metals and their manufacture. Other exports slightly increased. There is no export of wheat or flour, and the exports of the produce of the farm does not amount to $5,000. The imports are more than double the exports, and the goods admitted free are double of the dutiable goods. The trade of the United States with China has an indirect bearing upon this question. The imports from China into the United States have increased from $22,000,000 in 1896 to nearly $27,000,000 in 1900, and the exports have increased from a little less than $7,000,000 in 1896 to over $15,250,000 in 1900. The'increase is especially noticeable in two items, cotton and wheat flour. The exports of the former increased from $300,000 in 1896 to $460,000 in 1900, and the export of wheat flour increased from $45,000 in 1896 to $298,000 in 1900. The coast states are large exporters of wheat. The wheat yield of Oregon alone is from 20 to 30 millions a year, and California far exceeds that. Lee Choong, a prominent Chinese merchant of Victoria, and president of the Chinese Board of Trade, in reference to export trade, said : In British Columbia we have not got any flour mills, and if we want to export flour we cannot get it. In regard to price the flour is cheaper in the United States than in British Columbia. I would like to export goods to China from British Columbia, but I see no way of doing it. Q. Is the American flour cheaper than the flour from eastern Canada ?—A. United States flour, I do not know why, is cheaper and better flour than the flour which is manufactured here. Q. Then no matter whether Canada increases the tax or prohibits the Chinese labourer coining in here from China, it would not make any difference to the trade coming from China or going to China ? It would not increase or decrease the exports % —A. My opinion is this : If Chinese or other cheap labour comes in here and opened up the country in farming and so on, and you get the flour a good deal cheaper, then we could see large business between British Columbia and CSiina, and that would increase tile trade. Q. So in that way you would like to have the Chinese come in here and give us cheap labour so as to improve the trade ?—A. Of course. I would rather have our people come here and so have cheap labour and open up all the country. If you have large farms all over, then the exports would improve. This witness further said : Speaking of my own business, of the goods imported from China 97 per cent are sold to my own countrymen and 3 per cent sold to white people. Thomas R. Smith, of the firm of Robert Ward & Company, general commission merchants, &c., &c, said : Q. Do you look forward to the development of trade between China and Canada ? —A. Yes. Q. And Japan ?—A. Yes. It is only a question of time when development will come about, but in what way it is difficult to explain. The Chinese in the course of time will require more European goods, and the Japanese are very progressive. The Japanese always seem to be open to cultivate trade relations here, and of course steamboat facilities will increase. Q. Would the exclusion of Chinese or Japanese prevent the rapid development of trade between China and Canada ?—A. Well, so few Chinese are here, such a small fragment of the population of China is here, it would not make much difference. I do not think it will have any effect in regard to trade, the exclusion of the Chinese. Q. Would a restriction upon Japanese prevent trade between the two countries % A. I do not think it would have any effect. Robert James Skinner, provincial timber inspector, Vancouver, said : Q. Would restriction, increased restriction or exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese tend to curtail any trade (lumber), any possible trade between these countries and here % —A. I think it would. 54—16 242 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q, Is the trade of these countries at the present time sufficient to keep a large number of men employed in connection with the lumber mills in British Columbia ?—A. It would keep a certain number employed ; I would not say a large number. Edmund James Palmer, manager of the Victoria Lumber Company at Chemainus, the largest exporting mill in British Columbia, referring to the effect of the exclusion Act on American trade, said: At the time they (the United States) had trouble with the Chinese the export of lumber did not amount to more than fifteen million feet, and to-day that has increased to two hundred million feet. I think exclusion would do no harm; it would be a great benefit. I am in favour of total exclusion. I think we have enough of the Chinese here now. Hugh B. Gilmour, member of the Local Legislature for Vancouver, referring to the Canadian Pacific steamship line, said: I might explain that matter shortly. The Canadian Pacific Railway does not live on the Chinese and Japanese coming to British Columbia : the biggest travel is going to another country. A large number of Chinese y OO O O «/ O come here by steamers and are going through in bond to other countries. I take it from the number of Chinese in this country, if they had not been brought here, that would not have stopped the steamers from running, but I think we would be better off without the line of steamers running than to give away our country to the Chinese and Japanese. I do not claim that Chinese passenger traffic is necessary for the success of any steamship line. Q. Has the Exclusion Act had the effect of driving the steamship lines out of business in San Francisco ?—A. No, the lines have increased. A. E. McPhillips, member of the Legislature for Victoria, said : As a member of the Legislature I was in favour of increasing the per capita tax on Chinese to $500. I do not think it would affect the interests of the Dominion at large in the trade with China. I think most of that trade has been produced or brought about by our own people or European people, residents in China, and it would not be affected in any way by restriction or exclusion of the labouring classes of either China or Japan. I do not think that Japanese trade would be affected by preventing Japanese immigration. At present British Columbia has not much to offer in the way of flour for exportation, but I consider as time goes on we will have a large amount of flour to export of a class that seems to command trade in the Orient, made from softer wheat than that of the North-west. From millers I understand that they use flour made in Oregon and Washington, and that is made from soft wheat. They have not been educated up to the Hungarian flour made from hard fife wheat. I would allow free intercourse of the merchants and educated classes of Japan. Richard Marpole, superintendent of the Coast Division of the C. P. R., said: I cannot speak of the extent of the trade that exists at present between Canada and China and Japan; the possibilities are immense. Take our steamship service and today we have two extra steamers in commission. The trade is so increasing that it will necessitate an increase in the number of our ships, which I hope to see shortly. The fact that Mr. Hill of the Great Northern is going to put on much larger steamers as freight carriers is an answer to that question. I think the traffic is reciprocal to a great extent. Q. You spoke about the business being on the increase in the steamers and so on —do you think it would have a tendency to stop the steamship lines if there were no Chinese or Japanese here ?—A. The freight is more to us than the men. Truman Smith Baxter, ex-alderman of Vancouver, said: There is one matter I would like to mention; it is claimed that if we stop this immigration here of Chinese or Japanese that trade will suffer. The United States passed an Exclusion Act, I think it was the year 1893, to keep the Chinese out of the United States. I will give you the result of their trade until 1897, which is the last I could get. My figures are taken from the Commercial Bulletin, published by the Treasury Department Bureau of Statistics for the United States, and signed by A. T. Austin, chief of the Bureau of Statistics. In 1893 the United States exported to China goods to the value of $3,900,000 ; in 1894, $5,862,000; in 1895 the exports were reduced to $3,603,000, but that was at the time that the Chinese and Japanese war was going on. In 1896 the United States exported to China goods worth $6,921,000 and in 1897 the exports rose in value to $11,- L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 243 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 ^24,000. So that the trade grew from 1893 to 1897 from something like four million ■dollars to twelve million dollars. This I think shows that it is not likely that the trade with China at least will be hurt by the bringing into force of the Exclusion Act. Richard Henty Alexander, manager of the Hastings Lumber Mill, the second largest exporting lumber mill in British Columbia, said : Since the trouble in China very little lumber has gone from this coast there. If the trouble was settled in China there would be a large market there indeed. We ship principally rough lumber. Trade with Japan is increasing. As their lumber gets scarce I think it is likely to increase. Both the trade with China and Japan are well worth cultivating. There is less competition in China •and Japan than in any of the other countries. The only competition we have there is with our friends on Puget Sound. The mills here do not ship as much lumber as the mills on Puget Sound. George Owen Buchanan, sawmill owner, Kaslo, said : I think exclusion would react -against us in China. I think we should cultivate the friendship of China and Japan as we are bound to have large dealings with them later. We have about 25,000 tons of lead to go in, which would have to be refined here. The market for the lead in China -and Japan is not as large as is generally supposed; it is about 20,000 tons per annum. With the opening up of China consumption of lead is liable to increase rapidly, also of lumber. The chief competitor of Canada in China is Australia. United States is also a competitor. I have observed the increase of trade between the United States and China. Thought the restrictive measure passed by the United States had resulted in ill-feeling between China and United States. Present indications are that relations between United States and China are as friendly as that country's relations with any other power. AMERICAN EVIDENCE. J. W. Clise, president of the Chamber of Commerce, Seattle, Washington, said : Q. Do you think the law of exclusion has interfered with your intercourse with China ?—A. Not at all. I understand it is against the policy of the Chinese Empire to allow them to come here. They come here from Hong Kong. Our ships do not run to China. They do not call at Shanghai or any other Chinese port. Q. It has never been argued or stated here then in regard to your commercial interests that this law of exclusion was injurious to your trade ?—A. Oh, no, it has not been^ Q. I suppose with the end of this war in China the trade with China will largely increase ?—A. Yes. A great many things enter into our trade with China. The volume of trade is largely increased and is continuing to increase. Flour is the chief "thing we send there. We send about 100,000 barrels of flour per month to China and -Japan; we send that largely from Oregon and California. Q. How far east of the Rockies does the flour come from ?—A. It is Washington flour we ship. Our flour is cheaper than that of the Mississippi Valley. Q. Do you find any opinion or suggestion that trade would have been larger but :for the Exclusion Act ?—A. Not at all. Trade has grown and we are willing to let it alone. I do not think there is any strong feeling amongst the Chinese either way, and I do not think the exclusion of the J apanese would injure trade, when the exclusion of the Chinese did not and does not. Q. I suppose that is quite an important factor in arranging with the Japanese ?— A.. Yes, I think so. Q. There is a large commerce between Puget Sound and China ?—A. About five millions or six million dollars in a year. But something has to be said in favour of the Chinese; we do not get a fair idea from the Chinese here of the Chinese in general. In Japan we get a better class of people, and they come here to learn our ways and enter into our trade and everything. Theodore Ludgate, sawmill owner, Seattle, said : Q. Is the export (lumber) business in a satisfactory shape ?—A. We find it very good. I am speaking of the export business to Hong Kong and Japan. Vessels are 54—161 244 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION Oregon. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 coming here all the time, and another steamship company is going to build docks just outside of here. The market in Japan is improving for good lumber, but not much to speak of. Q. Do you think it (exclusion) would interfere with the extent of trade likely to develop between this country and Japan ?—A. I do not think it would have much influence. All the influence would be on the politicians of this country, and they would be almost entirely ruled by the labour organizations, and exclusion would be brought about in some way or other. S. E. Masten, secretary of the Board of Trade and Commerce, Portland, said : Q. I want to ask you whether the introduction of the Exclusion Act had any effect on business ?—A. I do not think so. I do not think that any action that has ever been taken against the Chinese here has ever affected our trade in any way. I am only speaking from my own personal observations. I know it has never interfered with our business. H. S. Rowe, mayor of Portland, Oregon, said : Q. Do you think the introduction of the law of restriction and that of exclusion in any way interfered with your trade with China to any appreciable extent 1—A. Not at all. I have resided here for many years, and my observation is that the trade with China has increased rapidly since the enforcement of the Exclusion Act. T. M. Crawford, labour agent, Portland, Oregon, said : The Japanese have three steamers running here. There are other lines running to Japan, the Occidental and Oriental, that is a United States line; and there is the Pacific Mail Line, that belongs to the Southern Railway ; and the Santa Fee railway have steamers running over there, and there are a great many tramp steamers. Henry Fortman, president of the Alaska Packers' Association, San Francisco, said : A few of our canned salmon go to China and Japan. Q. The trade of this country with Japan is extending ?—A. Yes, it is extending very materially. Q. Much more rapidly than the trade with China ?—A. I do not think so. I think the trade with China is increasing more rapidly than our trade with Japan. Q. The Exclusion Act does not prevent trade increasing ?—A. No; they buy a great many American goods in China. SUMMARY. There are several facts disclosed in regard to the trade with China that have an important bearing upon this question. 1. Canada's total trade with China in 1896, was : Imports $1,030,698 Exports 659,758 Total. j $1,690,456 1900 Imports 624,433 Exports 256,307 $880,740 2. The falling off in imports relates chiefly to two items—sugar and molasses and tea. The falling off in exports is principally covered by one item—cotton and cotton manufactures. 3. It will be noticed that imports are more than double the exports and the goods admitted free are double the dutiable goods. 4. Notwithstanding that an Exclusion Act has been in force for many years in the United States, their trade with China has largely increased. The increase in exports is noticable especially in two items—cotton and wheat flour. The opinion of a number of prominent Americans, including the president of the Chamber of Commerce, Seattle, ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 245 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the secretary of the Board of Trade and Commerce, Portland, and the mayor of Portland, was that the Exclusion Act has not interfered with the trade of the United States with China. 5. Having regard to the evidence adduced before us and the experience of the United States in this regard we are of the opinion that further restriction or exclusion will not appreciably affect the trade of Canada with China. CHAPTER XXIV.—ANTI-CHINESE LEGISLATION ELSEWHERE. It is a fact worthy of consideration in dealing with this question that in other •countries to which the Chinese have emigrated, their presence has given rise to dissatisfaction, resistance and agitation for their exclusion, and as far as possible a policy of restriction and exclusion has been adopted. The growth of this sentiment and consequent legislation in the United States, Australia, New England and Tasmania is outlined in this chapter. i THE UNITED STATES. In 1876 a joint committee of the Senate and House of Representatives wasappoint- •ed to investigate the character, extent and effect of Chinese immigration. A very ful investigation was made by this committee (full quotations from the evidence of which were given by the Canadian Chinese Commission of 1884). The following quotations from the majority report will show the result arrived at. In the testimony will be found that of lawyers, doctors, merchants, divines, judges -and others, that the apparent prosperity derived from the presence of Chinese is deceptive and unwholesome, ruinous to our labouring classes, promotive of caste and dangerous to free institutions. That the Chinese have reduced wages to what would be starvation prices for white men and women, and engrossed so much of the labour in the various -callings, that there is a lack of employment for whites, the young men are growing up in idleness, while young women, willing to work, are compelled to resort to doubtful means of support. The hardships resulting from these causes bear with a special weight upon women. It is also shown that this distinctive competition in some branches of labour operates as a continual menace and inspires fears that the establishment of these ruinously low wages will extend to all employments and degrade all working people to the abject condition of a servile class. From this cause, amongst others, has sprung up a bitterly hostile feeling toward the Chinese. As the safety of Republican institutions requires that the exercise of the franchise shall be only by those who have a love and appreciation for our institutions, and this rule excludes the great mass of the Chinese from the ballot as a necessary means to public safety, yet the application of the rule deprives them of the only adequate protection which can exist in a republic for the security of any distinctive large class or persons. An indigestible mass in the community, distinctive in language, pagan in religion, inferior in mental and moral qualities, and all peculiarities, is an undesirable element in a republic, but it becomes especially so if political power is placed in its hands. They can subsist where the American would starve. They can work for wages which will not furnish the barest necessities of life for an American. They make their way in California as they have in the Islands of the Sea, not by superior force of virtue or even industry, although they are as a rule industrious, but by revolting characteris- iics and by dispensing with what have become necessities in modern civilization. To ■compete with them and expel them, the American must come down to their level or below them, must work so cheaply that the Chinese cannot compete with him, for in the ■contest for subsistence he that can subsist upon the least lasts the longest. The presence of the Chinese discourages and retards white immigration to the Pacific States. This clearly appeared in evidence and probably arises from their 246 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 monopoly of farm and mechanical work through the low price of their labour, making subsistence difficult to procure by the poorer classes of immigrants. From all the facts that they have gathered bearing upon the matter, stating fairly the testimony for and against the Chinese, the committee believe that free institutions founded upon free schools and intelligence can only be maintained where based on intelligent and adequately paid labour. Adequate wages are needed to give self respect to the labourer and the means of education to his children. Family life is a. great safeguard to our political institutions. Chinese immigration involves sordid wages, no public schools, and the absence of the family. We speak of the Chinese as. ■they have exhibited themselves on the Pacific Coast for twenty-five years past, and as they are there at the present time. They show few of the characteristics of a desirable- population and many to be deprecated by any patriot. This problem is too important to be treated with indifference. Congress should solve it, having due regard to any rights already accrued under existing treaties and to humanity ; but it must be solved in the judgment of the committee, unless our Pacific possessions are to be ultimately given over to a race alien in all its tendencies, which will make of it practically provinces of China rather than States of the Union. The committee recommend that measures be taken by the Executive, looking toward a modification of the existing treaty with China, conforming it to strictly commercial purposes, and that Congress- legislate to restrain the great influx of Asiatics to this country. It is not believed that either of these measures would be looked upon with dissatisfaction by the Chinese Government. Whether this is so or not, a duty is owing to the Pacific States and terri-, tories which are suffering under a terrible scourge, but are patiently waiting for relief from Congress. Senator Oliver P. Morton, the chairman of the committee, made a minority, report in which he quotes Articles 5, 6 and 7 of the United States treaty of China concluded in 1868, commonly known as the Burlingame Treaty, and reached the conclusion that labour must needs be free, and have complete protection, and be left open to competition. He says: Labour does not require that a price should be fixed by a law or that- men who live cheaply, and can work for lower wages shall for that reason be kept out of the country. In 1878 the committee of the senate of California issued an address to the people- of the United States upon the social, moral and political effect of Chinese immigration. (This lengthy document will be found in State Papers, 45 Congress, 1st Session, Mis^ Doc, No. 9.) After setting forth their view of the then conditions, conclude their address as. follows :* In view of these facts thousands of our people are beginning to feel a settled exasperation, a profound sense of dissatisfaction with the situation. Hitherto this feeling' has been restrained, and the Chinese have had the full protection of our laws. It is the part of wisdom to anticipate the day when patience may cease and by wise- legislation avert its evils. Impending difficulties of this character should not in this; advanced age be left to the chance arbitrament of force. These are questions which ought to be solved by the statesman and philanthropist and not by the soldier. In 1878 a committee of congress on education and labour made a report on education and labour (see No. 3 United States Documents, relating to immigration), in which they find : 1. That the presence of the Chinese has had a tendency to degrade and dishonour labour. 2. Their personal habits, peculiar institutions and lax morals render them undesirable members of society. 3. They cannot and will not assimilate with our people, but remain unalterably aliens in habits, morals, politics and aspirations. The principal facts upon which these three propositions rest will be briefly considered : I. The Chinese labourer, in some respects, is desirable. He is frugal, thrifty,, patient, cheerful and obedient. He readily learns his trade and expertly performs any ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 2A7 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 species of light work. Chinese cheap labour has worked great national benefit to California in its early history, digging its canals, delving in its mines, reclaiming its tule-lands, building its railroads, and in various other ways contributing to the rapid development of its wonderful natural resources. If, therefore, moneymaking were the only question involved in this contest between the American and Chinese races, it would in its industrial or labour phase be promptly decided in favour of the latter. The material advantages of this kind of labour, however, sink into insignificance when compared with the personal considerations at stake—tile comfort, the self respect and decent, honourable living of the labourer himself. The Chinese labourer does not come up to the American standard of industry. The central idea of our system is, that the labourer shall possess courage, self-respect and independence. To do this he must have a home. Home is the mould in which society is cast. There the habits are formed which give character. There the zest and wakeful interest of living centre. There the fires of patriotism are kindled. There free institutions find their source and inspiration. The Chinese who come to this country have no homes. They have neither home feelings nor home interests in any true acceptation of the words. With the conditions of their mode of life they never can have homes. They are willing to work for less wages than will secure homes or comfortably support white labour. In their own country they work patiently and obediently during twelve or thirteen hours for less than one- tenth of what the poorest class of American workingmen receive. In the Pacific States they are willing to work for about one-half the price paid to American operatives. They are able to live upon rice, tea and dried fish, costing upon an average from 20 to 30 cents per day. Undei^othing is a luxury almost unknown to them. What clothing they wear is of the cheapest, simplest and coarsest character. They bring with them neither wives, families nor children. One hundred Chinese will occupy a room which, if subdivided, would not accommodate five American workingmen with their families. In such a small space they are packed like sardines in a box, and here they both sleep, eat and cook. Such a place does not deserve the name of home. No tender and loving interests cluster around it and dull habit alone endears it to them. An enlightened statesmanship would suggest that no material advantages, however great, arising from Chinese frugality and industry, can compensate for the loss of the homes, the comforts and the appliances of personal civilization, which have always been enjoyed by the labouring classes of America, and from which springs that spirit of self-respect and manly independence which is the highest result and best security of our political system. II. Another and more serious objection urged against the Chinese is that their personal and moral habits make them undesirable members of society. The crowded condition in which they live renders the observance of hygienic laws and sanitary regulations almost an impossibility. Neatness and cleanliness is the exception. The air of their apartments is filled with noisome smells and pestilential vapours, threatening disease and death. Property occupied by them is consequently lessened in value and the locality itself is avoided by the white population. Not only their personal habit but their moral ideas, methods and institutions directly antagonize our own. What we love they hate, what we admire they despise, what we regard as vices they practice as virtues or tolerate as necessities. The religious ideas even of the higher and titled classes in China are pre-eminently wretched, their superstitions numerous and ludicrous, their educational system exceedingly defective, and their civilization effete and decaying. Among the labouring or f coolie ' classes the grade ol morals is very low. One illustration of this is seen in their treatment of woman. Her birth is commonly regarded as a calamity. If not destroyed, which is not unusual, she is regarded as a slave and suffers privation, contempt and degradation from the cradle to the tomb. Instances are frequent of the sale for debt by parents of their daughters and by husbands of their wives, and that too for the worst purposes. Infanticide of girls is practised to some degree in all parts of the empire, and in some sections to an alarming extent. Concubinage is a recognized institution. The sanctity and obligation of an oath are disregarded, and the torture is often employed to extort the truth. as —* 248 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 our Such are some of the characteristics of the class from which nine-tenths of immigrants come. Respectable persons are deterred both by law and prejudice, and as a rule, only the most indigent and desperate consent to leave their native country. The female immigrants are bought and sold like chattels and practice the most revolting vices and immorality. Born and brought up under these heathenish influences, with these low ideas of law and virtue, coming to our country for the sole.purpose of making money, without homes and families, without domestic affections or interests; with no high incitements to duty or strong dissuasives from wrong doing; with no adequate sense of special obligation ; with no property to pay a fine, and with no fear of imprisonment, since it brings no greater discomfort or confinement than his usual mode of life; with blunted or erroneous perceptions, groveling thoughts, gross passions, parsimonious and degrading habits, the Chinaman in America cannot be considered a desirable member of society either from a physical or moral standpoint. III.-—The third and principal objection, however, to the Chinese is the fact that they do not assimilate with our people, but remain a distinct and alien element. In this respect they differ from all other voluntary immigrants. The German, the Irishman, the Frenchman, have sought our country as a permanent home for themselves and their posterity. Promptly and cheerfully adopting our habits, customs and political institutions, devoted to our people, to our government and the laws, they speedily become our worthiest and thriftiest citizens, vindicating in the council chambers of the nation their knowledge of our political principles, and illustrating upon every battlefield where liberty has been attacked the patriotism which such knowledge inspires. It is not so with the Chinese. They have been in this country over a quarter of a century. Their employment as house servants and labourers has brought them into close and immediate contact with our people, but no change in them has been produced. What they were when they came here they are to-day—the same in dress, the same in disposition, the same in language, the same in religion, the same in political feeling. They indicate no desire, either by word or action, to become identifiedwith us. They came to us not because they were dissatisfied with the social or political institutions of their own country, but because they believed they could better their condition in life. To make money was their sole object. Even when they have accomplished this they do not invest their earnings in land or homesteads, but return with them to their native China. They come with no desire or purpose to make this their permanent home. So strong is their feeling in this respect that the poorest labourers stipulate, as a part of the contract by which they sell their services, that their dead bodies shall be carried back to China, and thousands have been thus exported. They have Ao conception of our judicial or legislative system. They cannot be relied upon to perform military duty. They are incompetent as jurymen. Indeed, the only purpose in society for which they are available is to perform manual labour. They bring with them neither wives nor families, nor do they intermarry with the resident population. They have an inferior intelligence and a different civilization from our own. Mentally, morally, physically, socially and politically they have remained a distinct and antagonistic race. Nor, in view of their strong national prejudices, is there any hope that the future will be different. Instances are numerous where an inferior race has been absorbed and improved by a superior one, but the condition precedent to such a result is the acknowledgment on the part of the lower race of such inferiority. Nations, as well as individuals, must conclude that they need help, before they are willing to ask or receive it. The Chinese have not and never will, come to such a conclusion. Their inordinate vanity leads them to believe their country to be the center of the terrestrial system, and they therefore call it the \ midland or central nation.' They boast a civilization which antedates the birth of Christ; they point with pride to a philosopher, Confucius, whose maxims, as the perfection of wisdom, have become their code of laws. They obey a government which, in their faith, is heaven-descended—an absolute despotism, vast, awful, and impressive, whose tremendous and mysterious power regulates their lives or decrees their death, and under which liberty is an unknown idea. Thus intrenched behind national prejudices, they are impregnable against all influences, and remain a great, united class, distinct from us in colour, in size, in features, in ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 249 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 ■dress, in language, in customs, in habits, and in social peculiarities. A nation to be strong should be homogeneous. All the elements that attach themselves to its society should be assimilated rapidly into one harmonious and congruous whole. It is neither possible nor desirable for two distinct races to live harmoniously in the same society and under the same government. If this single proposition be true, the conclusion is sound, that Chinese immigration should be restricted or prohibited. This conclusion, however, is strengthened by the facts already stated, showing its evil effects upon , the industrial .and social interests of our people. But admitting this, the mode of securing it demands careful consideration. The great majority of the immigrants embark from the port of Hong Kong, a British colony. A change or abrogation of our present treaty with China will not, therefore, check the evil. The joint action of both China and Great Britain will alone be effective. In view of the fact that the well-known policy of the Chinese Government is adverse to the emigration of its citizens, and that Great Britain has already, without offence to China, absolutely prohibited immigration to several of her colonies, it is believed that similar action on our part will not destroy or disturb the friendly commercial relations now existing. But were it otherwise, the harmony and perpetuity of our social and political institutions cannot be weighed in the same balance with mere material or commercial advantages. Your committee, therefore, unanimously recommend that immediate correspondence be opened upon this subject by our government with the Governments of China and Great Britain, and present, accompanying this report, a joint resolution to that effect. Legislative action was taken by Congress in 1879 by an Act to restrict the immigration of Chinese into the United States, the effect of which was to limit the number to fifteen for each vessel entering any port of the United States, with further provisions for effecting the object of the Act. This Act was, however, on March 1, 1879, vetoed by the President. (See No. 7 U.S. Documents relating to immigration above referred to). By treaty concluded November 17, 1880, and duly ratified and proclaimed October 5, 1881, between the United States and China, it is provided by Article 1, that whenever in the opinion of the Government of the United States the coming of Chinese labourers to the United States, or their residence therein affects or threatens to affect the interests of that country, or to endanger the good order of the said country, or of any locality within the territory thereof, the Government of China agrees that the Government of the United States may regulate, limit or suspend such coming or residence, but may not absolutely prohibit it. The limitation or suspension shall be reasonable and shall apply only to Chinese who may go to the United States as labourers, other classes not being included in the limitations. Legislation taken in regard to Chinese labourers will be of such a character only as is necessary to enforce the regulation, limitation or suspension of immigration and emigrants shall not be subject to x personal mal-treatement or abuse.' Article 2 expressly excludes teachers, students and merchants, together with their body and household servants, and Chinese labourers who were then in the United States from the effect of the treaty. Article 3 provides protection for Chinese permanently or temporarily residing in the United States. (See U. S. compilation of treaties in force, page 118.) In 1882 an Act of Congress was passed giving effect to the above treaty. This Act was amended in 1884, which provides, Section 1, that from and after the expiration of ninety days next after the passage of this Act, and until the expiration of ten years next after the passage of this Act, the coining of Chinese labourers to the United States shall be, and the same is hereby suspended, and during such suspension it shall not be lawful for any Chinese labourer to come, or having so come after the expiration of the saiji ninety days, to remain within the United States. Section 2 imposes a penalty of $500 upon the master of any vessel who shall knowingly bring within the United States on such vessel any Chinese labourer, and further provides that such master of a vessel may be also imprisoned for a term not exceeding one year. 250 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902" Section 3 exempts labourers then in the United States, and the Act makes further provision for giving full effect to this law. (See United States laws, Exclusion of" Chinese, page 8, 22nd Stat., page 58, 23rd Stat., page 115.) In 1888 an Act was passed prohibiting the immigration of Chinese labourers 'from and after the date of the exchange of ratifications of the pending treaty between the United States and the Emperor of China.' (25th Stat., page 476.) It will be observed that this Act declared it unlawful for any Chinese person,, whether a subject of China or any other power, to enter the United States except as therein provided. In the same year (1888) a further act was passed prohibiting the return of any Chinese labourer who at any time theretofore had been or then, or thereafter might be- a resident within the United States, and who had not returned before the passage of the Act. (25th Stat., page 504.) In 1892 a further Act was passed continuing all laws then in force, regulating the coming into the United States of Chinese persons for a period of ten years from the passage of the Act, and making provisions for deportation for breach of the law. (27th Stat., page 25.) In 1892 a further Act was passed declaring that resident labourers must register and making further provisions therefor. (28th Stat., page 7.) In 1894 the Act was further amended by declaring that in every case where an alien is excluded from admission into the United States under any law or treaty now existing or hereafter made, the decision of the appropriate immigration or customs officers, if adverse to the admission of such alien, shall be final, unless reversed on appeal to the Secretary of the Treasury. (28th Stat., page 390.) UNITED STATES EXCLUSION TREATY AND LAWS AFFECTING CHINESE IMMIGRATION. By treaty between the Government of the United States and the Government of China, dated March 17, A. D. 1894, and ratified December 7, 1894, it is declared as follows:— Article 1. The high contracting parties agree that for a period of ten years, beginning with the date of the exchange of the ratification of this convention, the coming,, except under the conditions hereinafter specified, of Chinese labourers to the United States shall be absolutely prohibited. Article 2 provides for the return of registered Chinese labourers under certain conditions and limitations. Article 3 declares : That the provisions of this Convention shall not affect the right at present enjoyed of Chinese subjects being officials, teachers, students, merchants or travellers, for curiosity or pleasure, but not labourers, coming to the United States and residing therein. To entitle such Chinese subjects as above described to admission into the United States they may produce a certificate from their Government, or the Government where they last resided vised by the diplomatic or consular representative of the United States in the country or port whence they depart. And provision is also made for transit of labourers across the territory of the United States in the course of their journey to or from other countries, subject to such regulations as may be necessary to prevent said privilege of transit from being abused. Article 4 provides that Chinese labourers or Chinese of any other class either permanently or temporarily residing in the United States shall have for the protection of their persons and property, all rights that are given by the laws of the United States to citizens of the most favoured nation, excepting the right to become naturalized citizens. Provision is also made by Article 5, for the registration of resident labourers, reports to be furnished to the Chinese Government. Article 6 of the Convention declares that the treaty shall remain in force for ten years from the date of ratification, and if six months before the expiration of the said period of ten years, neither Government shall have formally given notice of its final termination to the other, it shall remain in full force for another period of ten years. 1 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 251 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 legislation and The above treaty was the result of nearly twenty years' agitation, negotiation, a short account of which will be found instructive. By a joint resolution of July 7, 1898, it was declared that there shall be no further immigration of Chinese into the Hawaiian Islands, except upon such conditions as are* now, or may hereafter be allowed by the law of the United States, and no Chinese by reason of anything herein contained shall be allowed to enter the United States from the- Hawaiian Islands. (See U. S. Stat. 1897-98, page 751.) _ The above Acts and Treaties with the regulations to enforce the same, constitute the present law of the United States with respect to Chinese Immigration. In the Report of the Philippine Commission, 1900, Volume 2, page 432, there is a. memorandum on the Chinese in the Philippines, and coming from a source so eminent and trustworthy deserves special mention. (For full report see Appendix.) We quote : The principle of political economy is well known, which lays down the rule that in order for a country to obtain advantages from immigration the immigrants. J o o o should bring in capital, new industries, or superior knowledge to perfect industries already in existence, or at least that such immigrants should apply their energies to pursuits productive of gain, not only to the immigrants themselves, but to society in general in the country in which they have established themselves, or that they finally become assimilated with the people of the country, thus giving, although indirectly, stimulus to certain professions and industries whose progress is a consequence of the increase of the number of the inhabitants of the town. Chinese in coming to the Philippines do not comply with any of the conditions of this well-known condition of political economy,. which are desirable points to be looked for in immigrants. Why then should they be allowed to immigrate in such great numbers when their presence in the PhiHppines is not a guarantee of prosperity and progress for the rest of the inhabitants of the Archipelago t And again, ' the Chinese are one of the principal causes of the commercial and industrial backwardness of the Archipelago. It is impossible here, on account of the competition which they make, to attain a position in the middle class of society. This class is a pirotector and promoter of great enterprises which do not promise immediate dividends and which must be perfected by means of shares which represent a great capital, that is to say, by the collection of the funds of niany contributors.' And further, ' It is the custom of the Chinese to consume as far as the necessaries of life are concerned, the food, clothing and other articles which they import from their own country for this. purpose.' AUSTRALIA. The Australian colonies prior to the formation of their present commonwealth had passed restrictive legislation against the Chinese. Victoria, as early as 1855, passed a law imposing a tax of £10 for all Chinese arriving by ship, and Mmiting the number to one to every ten tons of the ships burthen, and imposing a penalty upon the master of the vessel of £10 for each passenger so carried in excess. In 1857 a residence license of £1 was imposed, which was increased to £4 in 1859. In 1862 provisions relating to residence fees were repealed. In 1881 Victoria passed a new Act, limiting the number of Chinese to one to every one hundred tons of the ship's burthen, and imposing a penalty of £100 for breach of the law, and imposing a tax of £10 for each immigrant arriving by vessel. Similar legislation was passed by Queensland, South Australia, New South Wales, New Zealand, Western Australia and Tasmania. At a meeting of representatives from the different Australian governments, held at Sydney in the month of June, 1888, it was, amongst other things, resolved that it was desirable that the laws of the various Australian colonies for the restriction of Chinese immigration should be assimilated upon a basis at such meeting approved. The resolutions arrived at by the conference, and which have been embodied in a draft Bill, are as- follows: 252 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 1. That in the opinion of this conference, the further restriction of Chinese immigration is esential to the welfare of the people of Australasia. 2. That this conference is of opinion that the desired restriction can best be secured through the diplomatic action of the Imperial Government and by uniform Australasian legislation. 3. That this conference resolves to consider joint representation to the Imperial Government for the purpose of obtaining the desired diplomatic action. 4. That this conference is of opinion that the desired Australasian legislation should contain the following provisions : (1.) That it shall apply to all Chinese, with specified exceptions. (2.) That the restriction should be by limitation of the number of Chinese which any vessel may bring into any Australian port to one passenger to every 500 tons of the ship's burthen. (3.) That the passage of Chinese from one colony to another, without consent of the colony which they enter, be made a misdemeanour. jj The first and fourth resolutions were endorsed by all the colonies except Tasmania, who dissented, and Western Australia, who did not vote, while the second and third were carried unanimously. As a whole, therefore, they faithfully represented the opinion of the parliaments and peoples of Australia. In conclusion the conference would call attention to the fact that the treatment of Chinese in the Australian colonies has been invariably humane and considerate; and that, in spite of the intensity of popular feeling during the recent sudden influx, good order has been everywhere maintained. In so serious a crisis the Colonial governments have felt called upon to take strong and decisive action to protect their people ; but in so doing they have been studious of Imperial interests, of international obligations, and of their reputation as law-abiding communities. They now confidently rely upon the support and assistance of Her Majesty's Government in their endeavour to prevent their country from being overrun by an alien race, who are incapable of assimilation in the body politic, strangers to our civilization, out of sympathy with our aspirations, and unfitted for our free institutions, to which their presence in any number would be a source of constant danger. VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA. In pursuance of these resolutions an Act was passed by tne Parliament of Victoria, Australia, on December 22, 1888, whereby it is declared : Sec. 6. No vessel shall enter any port or place in Victoria having on board a greater number of Chinese than one for every 500 tons of the tonnage of such vessel. If any vessel enters any port or place in Victoria having on board any Chinese in excess of such number, the owners, master or charterer of such vessel shall on conviction be liable to a penalty of £500 for each Chinese in excess of such number. The Act contains fourteen clauses. The Governments of South Australia, Queensland, and Western Australia, passed a similar Act in 1888 and 1889. NEW SOUTH WALES. On August 3, 1898, an Act was passed by the Parliament of New South Wales on the lines of the Natal Act, the 3rd clause of which provides: The immigration into New South Wales by land or sea of any person of the class defined in the following sub-section hereinafter called ' prohibited emigrant' is prohibited, namely, any person who when asked to do so by an officer appointed to do so under this Act, shall fail to write out in his own handwriting in some European language and sign an application to the Colonial Secretary in the form set out in schedule ' B' of this Act or in the form of a similar purport proclaimed from time to time by the Governor in substitution of the form set out in such schedule. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 253 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 By section 8 : The master and owners of any vessel from which any prohibited emigrant may be landed before such emigrant is passed by an officer appointed for that purpose by the government, shall be jointly and severally liable to a penalty of £100 in respect of the landing as aforesaid from his vessel of any prohibited emigrant, and to a farther penalty of £20 for each such emigrant so landed in excess of the number of five —the total penalties not to exceed £5,000—the vessel to be liable for such penalty. The Act contains other provisions to make it effective. NEW ZEALAND. In August, 1888, an Act was passed by the Parliament of New Zealand amending the Act of 1881 and limiting the immigration of Chinese in the proportion of one ta every 100 tons of the tonnage of such vessel, and in 1896 was further amended bv increasing the poll tax of £10 to £100, and in 1899 the Immigration Restriction Act was passed on the lines of the Natal Act, and assented to on July 20, 1900. TASMANIA. An Act was passed by the parliament of Tasmania on October 29, 1898, reserved, and royal assent proclaimed on February 27, 1899. This also was on the lines of the Natal Act, and declares : Section 4.—The immigration into Tasmania is prohibited of any person described in the following paragraphs of this section. 1. Any person who on being asked to do so by any collector of customs shall fail to write out in his own handwriting in the presence of such officer in some European language and sign an application to the chief secretary of the colony in the form set out in schedule 2 of this Act, or in a form of a similar purport prescribed from time to time by the governor in substitution of the form set out in the said schedule. £-2. Any person being a pauper or likely to become a public charge. 3. Any idiot or insane person. 4. Any person suffering from an infectious or contagious disease, or of a loathsome or dangerous character. 5. Any person who not having received a free pardon has within two years previously to the time of his arriving in Tasmania been convicted of a felony or infamous crime or a misdemeanour involving moral turpitude, and not being a mere political offence. Fines and imprisonment are imposed for contravention of the Act, and other provisions made for giving it full effect. As early as 1888 the Australian Colonies urged upon the Home Government that diplomatic action should be taken to obtain from China a treaty similar to that concluded November 17, 1880, between China and the United States. The following- correspondence was had in reference to the matter, but it does not appear that any progress was made in the effort to obtain the desired treaty. In a memorandum dated April 24, 1888, by the Attorney General and submitted by the. Premier of Tasmania in answer to the Secretary of State's circular on the subject of Colonial Legislation action representing Chinese immigration occurs the following:— 4. The reference made by Hi a Excellency the Chinese Minister to Her Majesty's international engagements induces me to observe that the exceptional legislation that has been adopted by the majority of the Australasian Colonies on the subject of Chinese immigration does not violate any recognized rule of international comity; on the contrary, it is a fundamental maxim of international law that every State has the right to regulate imniigration to its territories as is most convenient to the safety and prosperity of the country, without regard to the municipal law of the country whence the foreign immigration proceeds. (See Ferguson's Manual International Law, vol I, page 130, md Calvo's Droit Intern., vol. I, liv., viii.) 254 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 7. Both the virtues and the vices of the Chinese are bred in them by a civilization •stretching back in an unparalleled fixedness of character and detail to an age more remote than any to which the beginnings of any European nation can be traced, and the experience of both America and Australasia prove, that no length of residence amidst a population of European descent will cause the Chinese immigrants who remain unnaturalized, to change the mode of life or relinquish the practices that they bring with them from their native country. It is consequently certain that if the unnaturalized Chinese should at any time become as numerous, or nearly as numerous, in any colony as the residents of European origin, the result would be either an attempt on the part of the Chinese to establish separate institutions of a character that would trench on the supremacy of the present legislative and administrative authorities or a tacit acceptance by them of an inferior social and political position which, associated with the avocations that the majority of them would probably follow, would create a combined political and industrial division of society upon the basis of a racial distinction. This would inevitably produce in the majority of the remainder of the population a degraded estimate of manual labour similar to that which has always existed in those communities where African slavery has been permitted, and thereby call into existence a class similar in habit and character to the ' mean whites' of the Southern States of the American Union before the civil war. Societies so divided produce particular vices in exaggerated proportions, and are doomed to certain deterioration. 8. The alternative supposition that the Chinese immigrants would apply for and obtain letters of naturalization and so acquire political equality with the remainder of the population, suggests a result equally menacing to the permanence of the civilization and structure of society now existing in these colonies, inasmuch as the indurated and renitent character of the habits and conceptions of the Chinese immigrants make their amalgamation with populations of European origin, so as to become constituent portions of a homogeneal community, retaining the European type of civilization, an impossibility. 9. The foregoing considerations invest the restrictive and prohibitory measures of the Australasian Colonies against Chinese immigration with a sanction that Her Majesty's Government cannot fail to recognize as sufficient to promote its intervention to obtain from the Court of Pekin a co-operation in the prevention of the immigration of its subjects to the Australasian Colonies similar to that which it is stated has been obtained by the government of the United States in regard to the immigration of Chinese into America. (See Blue-book, Australasia Correspondence re Chinese Immigration, July 1888.) In the same blue pamphlet, No. 78, we find a telegraphic despatch from Lord Car- rington (New South Wales), to Lord Knutsford, June 14, 1888, in which he says :— ' June 14.—At the Australasian Conference held in Sydney on the 12th, 13th and 14th instant, at which the colonies of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, Tasmania and Western Australia were represented, the question of Chinese immigration, and your cablegram to the Governor of South Australia in connection therewith, were fully considered. The members of the conference are sensible of the wish of Her Majesty's Government to meet the views of the colonies, and have specially deliberated upon the possibility of securing legislation which, while effective, should be of a character so far as possible in accordance with the feeling and views of the Chinese Government. They have not overlooked the political and commercial interests of the Empire, nor the commercial interests of the colonies. The suggestion that any restrictions which are to be imposed should be of a general nature, so as to give power to exclude European or American immigrants, has been very carefully deliberated upon, but no scheme for giving effect to it has been found practicable. As the length of time to be occupied in negotiations between the Imperial Government and the Government of China is uncertain, and' as the colonies in the meantime have reason to dread a large influx from China, the several governments feel impelled to legislate immediately to protect their citizens against an invasion which is dreaded because of its results, not only upon the labour market, but upon the social and moral condition of the people. At the same time, the Conference is most anxious that Her Majesty's Government should enter into communication with the Government of China with a view to obtain- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 255 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 ing, as scon as possible, a treaty under which all Chinese, except officials, travellers, merchants, students, and similar classes should be entirely excluded from the Australasian Colonies.' In a despatch by the Marquis of Salisbury to Sir J. Walsham the resolutions of the Conference were inclosed, and in which he says amongst other things :— | The recent conclusion of a treaty between China and the United States of America, for the exclusion of labourers from China, seems to have increased the feeling an Australia in favour of more stringent regulations in the colonies of that continent, And the working classes are represented to be strongly opposed to any further intrc— duction of labourers on a large scale. Chinese immigrants are, it appears, objected to not only on account of their vast numbers and their competition as wage-earners, but ■on the ground that they do not become assimilated with the British population, and that they rarely, if ever, settle permanently as colonists ; but, on the contrary, remain .essentially aliens in manners, customs, and religion, and generally return to China when they have saved sufficient money in the colonies for their wants in their native country.' At a public meeting held at Sydney on March 27, it was unanimously resolved, that the almost unrestricted influx of the Chinese into Australia will, if continued, threaten the political and social welfare of the colony, and that the time has arrived for the imposition of substantial and effective restrictions on their further introduction. The meeting further declared its strong objection to any action of the government of China in the assistance or encouragement of Chinese immigration into Australia, and it called upon Her Majesty's government to maintain the right of the Australian -colonies to frame such laws as they may consider necessary to ensure in Australia the preponderance and supremacy of the British race. I inclose copies of the resolutions of the Conference which have been embodied in a ■draft bill, and I have to instruct you to place yourself, without delay, in communication with the Tsung li Yam£n, and urge upon them, with the explanations and arguments which, in your judgment, are most likely to further the object in view, that, in pursuance of the considerations which I have described in this despatch, and which are more particularly set forth in the printed correspondence which I transmit herewith, the Chinese government should adopt a course similar to that which they followed in the case of the United States, and enter into a convention with Her Majesty's government to the effect indicated in the inclosed resolutions of the Conference held at -Sydney. SUMMARY. Agitation against the Chinese commenced in California in the early sixties, but no definite action was taken by Congress until 1876, when a joint committee of the senate and house of representatives was appointed, and after making an exhaustive examination of the question, the committee recommended that measures be taken by the executive looking towards a modification of the existing treaty with China, conforming it to strictly commercial purposes, and that Congress legislate to restrain the great influx of Asiatics in this country. Legislation by Congress followed in 1879, but was vetoed by the President. By treaty concluded November 17, 1880, and ratified and proclaimed October 5, 1881, between the United States and China, the government of China agreed that the government of the United States might regulate, limit and suspend the coming of Chinese labourers to the United States, whenever in the opinion of the Government of the United States the coming of Chinese labourers to the United States or their residence therein affects or threatens to affect the interest of that country or to endanger the good order of the said country, or of any locality within the territory thereof. In 1882 an Act of Congress was passed giving effect to the above treaty, and suspending the coming of Chinese labourers to the United States until 10 years next •after the passing of the Act. 256 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 In 1888 an Act was passed prohibiting the immigration of Chinese labourers 'from and after the date of the exchange of ratifications of the pending treaty between the United States and the Emperor of China.' In 1892 an Act was passed, continuing all laws then in force regarding the coming-: into the United States of Chinese persons for a period of 10 years from the passage of the Act, &c. By treaty between the Government of the United States and the Government of China, dated March 17, 1894, and ratified November 7,1894, it is declared by the high contracting parties that for a period of 10 years the coming of Chinese labourers to- the United States shall be absolutely prohibited. By a joint resolution of the Senate and House of Representatives of July 7, 1898, it was declared that there should be no further immigration of Chinese into the Hawaiian Islands, except upon such conditions as are now or may'thereafter be allowed by the laws of the United States, and no Chinese by reason of anything therein contained shall be allowed to enter the United States from the Hawaiian Islands. In the report of the Philippine Commission, 1900, it is declared that the Chinese are one of the principal causes of the commercial and industrial backwardness of the Archipelago. In Australia legislation against the Chinese commenced as early as 1855, which! increased in stringency until 1888, when a meeting of the representatives from the different Australasian governments was held in June of that year, resulting in the following resolutions :— 1. That in the opinion of this conference the further restriction of Chinese imigra-l tion is essential to the welfare of the people of Australia. 2. That this conference is of opinion that the desired restriction can best be secured through the diplomatic action of the Imperial Government and by uniform Australasian legislation. 3. That this conference resolves to consider a joint representation to the Imperial^ Government for the purpose of obtaining the desired diplomatic action. 4. That this conference is of opinion that the desired Australasian legislation should.- contain the following provisions :— (1.) That it shall apply to all Chinese with specified exceptions. (2.) That the restriction should be by limitation of the number of Chinese which| any vessel may bring into any Australian port to one passenger to every five hundred tons of the ship's burthen. (3.) That the passage of Chinese from one colony to another, without the consent of the colony which they enter, be made a misdemeanor. The first and fourth resolutions were endorsed by all the colonies except Tasmania,:* which dissented, and Western Australia, who did not vote ; while the second and third were carried unanimously. This conference was followed by legislation by Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia and Queensland, giving effect to the resolutions arrived at. In New Zealand amendments were made from time to time until in 1896 the law stood limiting one emigrant to every one hundred tons of tonnage, and increasing the poll tax from £10 to £100 ; and a further Act on the lines of the Natal Act was introduced in 1899. In 1898 New South Wales and Tasmania each passed an Act on the lines of the Natal Act. On December 6, 1901, the Alien Immigration Restriction Bill was passed by the parliament and senate of the Australian commonwealth. CHAPTER XXV—EFFECT OF EXCLUSION IN THE UNITED STATES. By the United States census of 1900 there were enumerated 25,767 Chinese in Hawaii, 3,116 in Alaska, and 304 at military and naval stations abroad; and 89,863 in the United States proper, and of the latter number 67,729 were found in the Western States and Territories. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 257 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The following table shows the distribution in those States and also in British Columbia for the years 1900, 1890 and 1880 :— Arizona . California.... Colorado. Idaho Montana Nevada New Mexico Oregon Utah . Washington Wyoming British Columbia, exclusive of Cassiar and Cariboo. 1900. 1890. 1880. 1,419 1,170 1,630 45,753 72,472 75,132 599 1,398 612 1,467 2,007 3,379 1,739 2,532 1,765 1,352 2,833 5,41& 341 361 57 10,397 9,540 9,510 572 806 501 3,629 3,260 3,186 461 465 91-4 14,532 8,910 4,350 It will be seen that in twenty years the Chinese population of California fhas decreased from 75,000 in 1880 to 45,000 in 1900, while in Oregon it has slightly increased, from 9,000 to 10,000; and in Washington it has also slightly increased in twenty years, namely, from 3,186 in 1880 to 3,629 in 1900; and in British Columbia it has increased from 4,350 to 14,532, exclusive of Cassiar and Cariboo, which would, afa fair estimate, bring the total number up to 16,000. A comparison of the population of the States of Washington, Oregon and California and British Columbia, at the last three censuses taken :— Washington— Total population... Number of Chinese Oregon— Total population... Number of Chinese California— Total population... Number of Chinese, British Columbia— Total population... Number of Chinese 1900. 518,103 3,629 1, 413,536 10,397 485,053 45,753 177,272 16,000 1890. 349,390 3,260 313,767 9,540 1,208,130 72,472 98,173 8,910 1880. 75,116 3,186 174,768 9,510 864,964 75,132 49,459 4,350 Mr. Stetson, of the firm of Stetson & Post Milling Company, Seattle, said: Q. What would* you say is the prevailing feeling in the city as to the exclusion law; is it in favour of the law being continued in force as it is, or would the general feeling favour the abrogation of the exclusion law?—A. It never comes up. The question is settled. No industry has ceased because of it that I know of. The law has been enforced and its action has passed out of recollection. This company employs *125.men, none of whom are either Chinese or Japanese. W. H. Perry, assistant general manager of Moran Brothers Lumber Company, who employ 100 men, but no Chinese or Japanese, states that there are no Chinese or Japanese employed in the lumber mills in the city of Seattle or its neighbourhood. Q. Is there any desire among what might be called the capitalistic interests to abrogate the Exclusion Law or are they satisfied with it 1—A. I think they are satis-, fied with it and desire it to continue. I think they are in favour of Chinese exclusion as a rule, although there are some, small sections where they might favour the Chinese, where they think they require low priced labour, but I think the number is very small. 54—17 258 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Q. What is the feeling in the city and in the State in regard to exclusion ?—A. I think it is overwhelmingly hi favour of the exclusion of Chinese. They are not considered a desirable element in the community for the reason that they do not and will not assimilate with us, and I do not think it would be desirable if they would assimilate. They do not take any interest whatever in our laws or institutions. They contribute very little to the general good of the community. They pay a very small proportion of taxes for the business that they do. J. W. Clise, president of the chamber of commerce, Seattle, when asked whether there was any feeling in favour of the abrogation of the Exclusion Act said : It is something that in recent years I have not had to give any serious consideration to. The Exclusion Act is in force and the question is • one which is regarded by most of the people as settled and done with. There are some of the large institutions I think would have liked to have had the law a little modified at the time of its passing, but I think it has given general satisfaction. Our people are opposed to the Chinese and Japanese. In Tacoma they expelled them. Here there was a great agitation and the military had to be called out, and the city put under marshal law. That was the result in 1886 of the non-enforcement of the Exclusion Law. The white people found it difficult to get a living; they found they were being interfered with everywhere, and that they would have to leave the country if the Chinese were allowed to come in here, and they demanded that the Chinese should be expelled. In Seattle they sent out two hundred out of six hundred, and we have never come up again to the original number. We have got now about three hundred in Seattle. Since the city has grown so rapidly they do not constitute a serious menace. A. H. Grout, labour commissioner, Seattle, who had lived fourteen years on the coast and seemed to have a thorough knowledge of the question, said : Q. Did the introduction of those laws (Restrictive and Exclusion Acts) cause any serious inconvenience to the different industries ?—A. None that I am aware of. Q. Did the change cause any injury to trade or did it interfere with the prosperity of the different industries 1—A. No. Q. Was it complained of by employers 1—A. Not that I am aware of. I have been in this position five years, but did not make it a study before that time. I was engaged in the lumber industry before that time. I think a large majority of our citizens would be in favour of continuing the law as it is in force at present. I think the majority of employers are in favour of continuing the law as at present. I do not think there is any industry in our State or in this city that suffered by reason of the Exclusion Act. Theodore Ludgate, lumber merchant at Seattle, formerly of Peterborough, Ontario, employs 150 men ; no Chinese or Japanese employed. Q. Do any of the mills with whom you come in competition employ Chinese or Japanese labour ?—A. Not in the city or its neighbourhood. The qnly mill employing Japanese is the Port Blakeley Mill, nine or ten miles across the Sound from here. When asked as to the prevailing opinion as to the Chinese and Japanese. A. They are not desired here at all. (For fuller quotations from this witness see the chapter on the lumber business.) - William H. Middleton, secretary of the Central Labour Union, Seattle, said : The people generally, are in favour of the continuance of the enforcement of the Exclusion Act. We had Chinese riots in 1886, and they came near driving all the Chinese out of the city. The Government had to call out the military, and the Government kept them (the Chinese) in town, but usually they kept in a part of the, town called ' Chinatown'. A. S. Martin, secretary of the Puget Sound sawmill and Shingle Company, Fair Haven, Washington ; the company employs 265 hands and never employ either Chinese or Japanese, he said : The sentiment here is opposed to both Chinese and Japanese. They were not permitted here at all until the canneries started. If the question were put to a popular vote not a Chinaman or Japanese would be allowed in town. Chinese have never been employed in these mills. There are no Japanese here. There are not fifty Chinese in the country outside the canneries. The Chinese in the canneries all come from Portland for the season, and return at its close. This labour is furnished under contract by Chinese contractors of Portland. !_ ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 259 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 W. T. Harris, of the Whatcom Falls Mill Company, that employs 75 men, but no Chinese or Japanese; they manufacture lumber and shingles,—said : Chinese are* not employed at Whatcom at all. We don't see them here at all. The population of Whatcom is about ten thousand. We experienced no difficulty in getting common or skilled labour. The principal industry at Whatcom is lumbering. The coal mines are several miles from town. They employ all white labour. W. Sherman, Manager of the Bellingham Bay Lumber Company, said : We employ about 350 men ; no Chinese or Japanese. We export lumber to South America, Australia, Hong Kong and Japan, also to San Francisco and east of the Rockies. There is no difficulty in getting labour. We buy our logs. Henry F. Fortman, president of the Alaska Packers' Association, said : Q. As far as your observation goes do Chinese become Americanized ? Do they become citizens in the proper sense of the term,—taking an interest in your laws and institutions 1—A. Well, they cannot become citizens unless they are born here. They take great interest in the country. Q. Are they looked upon by the people generally as a class out of which to make good citizens %—A. Well, no. The average Caucasian does not care about them, and white people do not associate with them in any way. It was owing to the general feeling of the American people that the Exclusion Act was passed and brought into force. (See further extracts from the evidence of this witness in the chapter on canneries.) S. E. Masten, of Portland, secretary of the Board of Trade and Commerce, and Theodore Wilcox, stated that the number of CJhinese had diminished very much in the last ten years. Mr. Masten then stated that his assistant, Mr. Wilcox, was much more familiar with the whole question than he was, and placed the Commissioners in communication with Mr. Wilcox who said that the present population of Portland was between ninety and a hundred thousand, and that there were not over 2,500 Chinamen in the city. Twenty years ago with a population of twenty-five thousand there were twice as many Chinamen in the city. Q. I wish to ask you whether the introduction of the Exclusion Act had any effect on business 1—A. I do not think so. I do not think that any action that has ever been taken against the Chinese here has ever affected our trade in any way. I am only speaking from my own personal observation. I know it has never interfered with our business. Q. What is the general feeling of the community here; are the people in favour of the immigration of coolie labour or are they infavour of the continued enforcement of the Exclusion Act ?—A. We would rather not have the coolie class here. We would rather not have Chiaese or Japanese labourers coming in here at all. The railways in the past employed a good many Chinamen, but they do not employ as many now as they did a few years ago. I have been on the Northern Pacific Railway and they do not employ as many now as they did a few years ago. I have been on the Northern Pacific Railway several times lately and have not seen any Chinese. A. A. Bailey, secretary of the Federated Trades, Portland, said: I do not know that the Chinese or Japanese do a great deal of good here. Whatever money they earn very little of it is spent in this country. The labouring men of America spend their money here and people in business here get the benefit of it. The Chinese come here working for low wages and the money they earn they send the most of it out of the country to China. Their cost of living is very small and all the money they have over the actual cost of living is sent to China. The American working man earns all the money he can. Whatever money he earns he spends it here and the business community have the benefit of it. That is one reason why merchants and a great many of the business men are in favour of the Exclusion Act. The only people I have found in favour of letting down the bar are men requiring a large amount of unskilled labour, and they think they can get that cheap by the Chinese coining in here, and that they can do as well with the Chinese as with white labour. They do not care about what comes of the country if they have their work done cheaply, such as the building of railroads and other large works. They are in the business to make as much money out of it as possible. They do not give a 54—17i 260 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD. VII., A. 1902 cent for what becomes of the country. They are contractors who come in here to build railways and all they care for is to make large profits for themselves. They are the men who favour the immigration of the Chinese, whereas the people who live in the country, the merchants and the business men, and the citizens of the state generally, those who make their homes here, are all in favour of the Exclusion Act being continued in force. Q. What proportion of the people are in favour of the law as it stands ?—A. I should say eighty per cent is a very conservative estimate. At the time the Exclusion Law was brought into effect quite a number took the view that all men were entitled to- come to the country and live here under whatever conditions they chose, but there was such an outcry from the whole of the people that they did not want the Chinese here that our representatives in Congress supported prohibition, and the Exclusion Act has been ever since regarded as a settlement for all time of the question. It was then the almost universal opinion that to open our doors and let large numbers of these people come in would be ruinous to the working people of the United States. ^ J. M. Lawrence, city editor of the Oregonian, Portland, stated that he had resided in Portland for thirteen years. In 1890 the State of Oregon had a population of 313,767, of whom only three or four thousand were Chinese, so that the number of Chinese here in proportion to the population was very small. Fourteen years ago there was an agitation against the Chinese all around the coast. There was an agitation to run them out of Oregon. At that time the Chinese were run out of Tacoma and other places on the coast, and they were collected chiefly in the towns, mostly in Portland, and I have no doubt a great many of the Chinese left, the country then. At that time there were about 150 Chinamen in a woollen mill and they were driven out of that employment. It caused inconvenience for a little while. I believe it took a little time for them to get in white hands accustomed to the work. I think the people are in favour of the law as it stands. Q. There were a large number of Chinese here up to the time of the Exclusion Act going into force ?—A. Yes, but it is a little difficult to estimate the population at that time, for this reason,—that the contractor who was centered here might have a thousand men on hand today and in a week most of them would be sent to Puget Sound, to the. fisheries, or to the hop fields, and the Chinese population might vary two or three hundred in the course of a week. Even to this day some Chinese are sent from here to Alaska in connection with the fisheries. I have known of three or four carloads being sent up to Alaska at one time. You might call these people still residents here. That would raise my estimate of the Chinese population, and the Chinese population might go up to seven thousand or eight thousand. As to the industries, I do not think they were established by reason of the presence of the Chinese or the Japanese. I think the industries would have been established all the same, although their development may not have been so rapid. In the past the Chinese may Have served Oregon very well, but they are not required here now. We can get on very well without them. We have no prejudice against the Chinese, except, as I say, they come in unfair competition with our own people. They are not desirable as citizens. They do not assimilate with our people, and it would not be desirable if they did assimilate. H. S. Rowe, mayor of Portland, said : I was superintendent of the Oregon Navigation Company. The general feeling of the whole community is in favour of the law as it stands. The change was gradual; when the Exclusion Act was put in force there was nothing like a shock nor any inconvenience suffered; the change was gradual. I do not think any inconvenience was suffered by anyone. Our trans-continental lines were completed, and we were able to get in all the white labour we wanted from the east. Walter Honeyman, merchant, cannery and fishing supplies, of Portland. This witness stated that only the working people and the trades unions were in favour of the Exclusion Law. Q. How does it come that the pepple did not protest against the law if the feeling in the community is as you say it is ?—A. That was all worked up by the trades' unions. L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 261 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. We have been told that the feeling is unanimous now, or almost unanimous in the community, against the Chinese coming inl—A. Not among the merchant people. Q. Would the merchants prefer to see the Chinese coining in 1—A. Yes. Q. Without restriction %—A. They fill a want, I think, here as domestics, doing gardening work and cutting wood around the city. Q. The mayor of the city gave us the opinion that the working of the law was satisfactory to the community in general 1—A. Well, I do not mix so much among the tradespeople as he does. Q. Is the mayor in business %—A. He used to be one of the superintendents of the railway. Q. What is the line of your supplies ?—A. Gill-nets, seines and traps. Q.. Do you regard the Chinese as a people who would make desirable citizens 1—A. I have never known anything about the Chinese but that they are always peaceable and law-abiding and would make good citizens. Q. To settle here 1—A. I do not know. Q. Would you give them a vote 1—A. No, I do not believe in giving them votes unless they are educated. Q. If they are good citizens why not give them votes 1—A. They are a good deal better than some who have votes. Q. Do they become Americanized ?—A. Very few. Q. Do they take an interest in your laws and institutions ?—A. Very few. I was bom in Scotland and am an American citizen. I think the exclusion of these people has retarded the development of the country. I am not interested in the canneries, except in selling them supplies. F. V. Meyers, commissioner of the Bureau of Labour* Statistics, San Francisco, said : The Chinese have to a certain extent become Americanized, to the extent of having labour unions of their own and having fixed prices for certain work, as our unions have. The Chinese question has been considered a dead issue. It is a closed issue now under the Exclusion Act. I have expressed that on page 15 of my report as to alien labour in the State of California. The Exclusion Law will expire I believe in 1902, and public opinion in the state will certainly favour the Exclusion Act being continued in force. The general feeling is to make it still more exclusive, and to include the Japanese. Let me say here that in giving you that as the feeling of the community, in voicing a sentiment of that kind I am not speaking of that now from a partisan point of view. I am not indicating if I have opinions of my own what these opinions are. I am simply stating the fact, that the general feeling of the community is in favour of the continuance of the Exclusion Act in regard to the Chinese, and to have the same measure of exclusion extended to the Japanese as well. In so far .as public feeling is concerned I think you will find that is the fact. Of course you will understand all such questions are agitated through the medium of the newspapers, but they are finally settled at the ballot box. The sentiment of the labouring classes is decidedly against the Chinese and i;he Japanese, and the organizations are very strong at the ballot box. It is said by some that a larger amount of that kind of labour, cheap labour, would be a benefit to • the industries of the State and would induce more capital to come in to develop it; that a low class of labour is required to do the unskilled work necessary in carrying on the ■different industries; that the different industries would be developed, and therefore would afford more work for the higher class of labour. That idea is entertained by some, but the general feeling of the conimunity is just as I have stated. I do not think the change in favour of the Chinese would be appreciable. The method adopted did not oause inconvenience or injury to any appreciable extent. If the Chinese had been bodily sent away—had been taken from the various avocations—some industries might have had to close up for a little time. The expulsion of the Chinese would have caused a considerable jar, because there would not have been sufficient white labour to take their places. Quite likely some of the industries would have been inconvenienced and hampered for a time ; no question about that. I think the Exclusion Act is more thoroughly in force now than it was at first. 262 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 James D. Phelan, mayor of San Francisco, said : I do not believe there was any appreciable jar or that there was any loss appreciable by the introduction of the Exclusion Act. I believe the companies are in favour of the re-enactment of the law, or the enactment of a more exclusive law. They look upon it in this way—I am pretty familiar with the sentiment of the people on the subject; I have made a study of the subject,, and have come to the conclusion that' we will be far better without the Chinese or Japanese; and that without them we will still have a great development in our State,, and the industrial conditions will be improved all along the line. The presence of the Chinese means the exclusion of white men; the Chinamen come here alone; families of Chinese are very rare here. They are no use at all to the community; they injure our civilization. If we were rid of the Chinese their places would be filled with white people and their families, and the State and the country would be benefitted largely.. They have so encroached upon the different trades and callings, so far that it may be termed that there has been an industrial revolution, and if they go any further there is no limit to the injury they will do. If the barriers were let down, there would be such an expression of opinion that in a very short time there would be no doubt a re-enactment of the Exclusion Law; and the Exclusion Law would be rendered so as to apply to other nationalities from the east. They are mostly of a servile class; and that is entirely antagonistic to the American idea of equality. The whole thing is fundamentally wrong; and they have demonstrated strongly that an Exclusion Act is necessary, if our country is to develop, and if our civilization is to keep pace with the civilization of Europe. J. H. Barber, connected with the Immigration Office, San Francisco, said : Q. Is there any sentiment now against the Exclusion Act, or do you regard the* question as settled ?—A. Yes. It has acted so satisfactorily that I do not think there- can be said to be any great number in the city or in the State who would favour the abrogation of the Act. Q. From your personal observation or from information within your knowledge can you say whether the Exclusion Act when it was put in force caused any shock to business 1—A. No, I do not believe it did. The only thing is that there is a scarcity of domestic help. That is the only place I can think of where the Chinese are missed. Of course they were used on the gardens and on farms. Q. To what extent were they used 1—A. Not to a great extent. The Japanese are used now where they can be got. The demand is so great that they can use all the Chinese and all the Japanese available. The Japanese cannot supersede the Chinese. People prefer the Chinese when they can get them. Q. Is the labour market well supplied; is there an abundance of labour in the city 1—A. There is an abundance of labour here just now. SUMMARY. The effect of restrictive legislation and the Exclusion Act in the United States has. * been to gradually decrease the number of Chinese upon the coast, the greatest reduction having taken place in California, from 72,472 in 1890 to 45,753 in 1900. The population of Washington State has increased from 75,116 in 1880 to 518,103- in 1900, while the number of Chinese has only increased from 3,186 in 1880 to 3,629 in 1900. While the population of British Columbia has increased from 49,459 in 1880 to 177,272 in 1900, the Chinese population has increased during the same period from 4,550 to 16,000. Again, Seattle with a population of over 80,000, has less than 500 Chinese; while Victoria with a population of 20,000 has over 3,300 Chinese. In the Coast States the overwhelming opinion, as far as we were able to gather it, is in favour of the present Exclusion Law, and this opinion is shared by employers as well as employees, and other citizens. The Exclusion Law caused no shock to the various industries ; the change was so gradual as not to be noticed. The Chinese are largely employed in the cannery business, but they are not employed in the other large industries such as lumbering, the shingle business and coal ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 263 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 mines, nor are they to any considerable extent engaged in farming, except at certain seasons of the year, when they are employed in hop-picking and berry-picking, &c. Their mode of living is and always has been similar to that which obtains in British Columbia. Each city in which they are found has its * Chinatown.' The white people do not associate with them, nor do they assimilate in any way with the white people. They are not regarded as a desirable class. Fifty years has made very little change as to their habits of life. The question is regarded as clesed, and we could learn of no considerable class that were in favour of changing the Exclusion Law as it now exists. CHAPTER XXVI.—RESUME. The following resume gives in outline the results of the foregoing chapters, to which reference must be had for a complete statement of the facts and evidence bearing upon the question of CJhinese immigration and its relation to the great industries and its effect upon the Province and country at large. CHAPTER I. REPRESENTATIONS BY BRITISH COLUMBIA. For over ten years British Columbia has made persistent efforts to further restrict or exclude the immigration of Chineses into the provinces; by addresses of the Local Legislature to the Lieutenant Governor in Council transmitted to the Dominion Government ; by numerous acts of the Local Legislature, endeavouring to limit immigration or discourage it by excluding Chinese from public works and the passing of the Natal Act; by over seventy petitions in 1891 to the Dominion Parliament, and from year to year repeated, the province of British Columbia has endeavoured to press upon the Dominion Parliament the necessity of saving this province to the Dominion and the Empire from the invasion of this alien race, claimed to be non-assimilative and a menace to the present and future well-being of the province. CHAPTER II. THE CHINESE IMMIGRANT, Except a slight falling off after the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway, the number of Chinese has steadily increased in the Province of British Columbia from 4,483 in 1880 to 8,910 in 1891, and 16,000 (estimated) in 1901. These immigrants are mostly of the coolie class, or farm labourers, whose earnings in their own country would not average more than three to seven cents a day of our money, upon which commonly a family of from two to five people have to be supported. They are poor below our conception of poverty, always bordering on the line of want. This is the class of immigrants that come to British Columbia. They are chiefly adult males who come. Take Victoria as an instance most favourable to the Chinese, as being the oldest settlement: Of 3,272 less than 100 had their wives with them and of these 61 are of the merchant class, leaving about 3,000 labourers, of whom 28 had wives living with them. The others who are married have their wives in China. In the whole province, with a population of 16,000 (estimated) Chinese, 122 Chinese children attend the public schools. V CHAPTER III.—THEIR UNSANITARY CONDITION. Medical men, health officers and sanitary inspectors with one accord^ regard them as a menace to health, because of their overcrowding and persistent disregard of sanitary conditions and regulations. It is not surprising, therefore, to find that consumption is especially prevalent among them. 264 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION CHAPTER IV.—CRIME STATISTICS. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Crime statistics are not unfavourable to the Chinese. This may arise from the undoubted difficulty of securing conviction. There is strong evidence that they conspire to conceal crime. CHAPTER V. THE MORAL AND RELIGIOUS ASPECT OP THE CASE. £-"i 'V"fci"t-( The presence of Chinese, who have an entirely different standard of morality to that of the white population, without home life, schools, churches or religion, tends to lower the moral sense of the community, especially of the young. They are undoubtedly looked upon by the great mass of the people as a servile class. The young despise the Chinaman and look upon the employment in which he is engaged as degrading, and as he is employed in nearly every avenue of unskilled labour, this evil is widespread, and its effect was everywhere observable. A reference to the views of ministers and clergy shows that missionary work among the Chinese in British Columbia is surrounded with great difficulty, and the progress made, having regard to numbers only, exceedingly slow. The consensus of opinion seems to be that conditions for missionary work were not as favourable here as in China, I possibly' (as one witness put it) • because I doubt whether Christian practices and Christian theories would not baffle the Chinese intelligence.' CHAPTER VI. THE PROPORTION OF TAXES PAID BY CHINESE. 'Sfea*-' ~"n =*='"s£-f;3 The Chinese bear no fair proportion of the burden of taxation, either municipal, provincial or dominion. CHAPTER VII. LAND CLEARING AND AGRICULTURE. While the Chinese have contributed as labourers to the clearing of land, their presence has been seriously detrimental to its settlement by a white population. The white settler who earns his living from the land by his own work is strongly opposed to further immigration. He is in many cases isolated and every incoming Chmainan adds to his isolation. To the extent of their numbers the Chinese discourage churches, schools and social intercourse. They prevent incoming settlers and drive out those who are there. They are a deterrent, sure and effectual to the settlement of the lands, encouraging land monopoly and discouraging small holdings. CHAPTER VIII. -MARKET GARDENING. This very important branch of industry that ought to be a help to small holders and farmers is entirely in the hands of the Chinese. It is impossible to compete with them. Their control of this branch of industry retards settlement and severely cripples the small land holders and farmers who, while clearing the land might otherwise look to their market gardens to assist them in supporting their families. CHAPTER IX. COAL MINEg. Chinese are not employed in coal mines except on the coast. At the new Vancouver Coal Company, of a total of 1,336 men, 175 are Chinese. The rest are whites. The Chinese are employed only above ground at this mine. At the Dunsmuir Union Mines 877 men are employed, of these 363 are Chinese, and they are employed above and below ground. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 265 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 At the Dunsmuir Extension Mine 1,000 men are employed, of whom 164 are Chinese and these mostly above ground. The general superintendent of the New Vancouver Coal Company favours the total prohibition of further immigration, and thinks the remedy should be applied at once. The general manager of the Wellington Colliery Company (the Dunsmuir Mines) Tbhinks there should be no restriction whatever. The Hon. James Dunsmuir, president of the above company, in an official communication to the Dominion Government, dated October 9, 1900, favours 'an increase of the per capita tax in such measure as to surely limit the number of immigrants, and by ■enactment of legislation similar to the Natal Act to regulate their employment while in the country.' The present supply of Chinese labourers is sufficient to meet the demands of this industry for years to come. The evidence of those chiefly affected is in favour of the view, that no appreciable inconvenience or loss will be suffered by this industry by further restriction or even exclusion. E - CHAPTERS X AND XI. PLACER AND LODE MINES. The value of the mineral output of British Columbia, including coal and coke, for the year 1900 amounted to over sixteen millions, and for the year 1901 to over twenty millions, and of these amounts the Lode Mines (gold, silver, lead and copper) in 1900 yielded ten-millions, and the Placer Mines, including hydrauhc, over one and a quarter millions; and in 1901 the Lode Mines yielded fourteen millions and a quarter and the Placer Mines less than a million. Chinese are not employed in the Lode Mines in the interior, and only in one or two instances on the coast. They are not employed in the Atlin district, nor are they employed in the Cariboo Consolidated. They are employed, however, in the other Placer Mines to the number probably of one thousand' or over, about one-half of whom work for \ themselves, either on royalty or under lease, on old placer claims* or new claims; and the. other half work for companies who are engaged in placer mining, including open hydrauhc. Out of a total yield of $11,347,000 from Lode and Placer Mines in 1900 they .assisted in contributing approximately from $300,000 to $400,000. The exclusion of further immigration of Chinese "will not affect these industries. CHAPTER XII. THE LUMBER INDUSTRY EXPORT TRADE. ex- Three mills contributed 97 per cent of the eighty-four million feet of lumber ported last year. The principal exporting mill is the only one that employs Chinese to any extent, except as cooks, and the manager of this mill is in favour of exclusion. It is clear, therefore, that so far as this branch of industry is concerned the exclusion of further CJhinese immigration would not injuriously affect it. CHAPTER XIII. -LOCAL AND EASTERN TRADE. The owners and managers of the non-exporting mills are largely in favour of further restriction or exclusion of Chinese. Chinese are not employed to any considerable extent in the woods. If Chinese and Japanese both were deported, it would put the owners to serious inconvenience and loss, but if no more Chinese are permitted to come in the supply is ample, and the change will be so gradual as in no wise to impair the business. The Chinese are not employed in any lumber mills on the Sound. I 266 REPORT OP ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 CHAPTER XIV. THE SHINGLE AND BOLT BUSINESS. This important industry employs over a thousand men, of whom more than half are Chinese and Japanese; the Chinese being employed in the shingle mills and the Japanese in getting out bolts. There are sufficient Chinese to meet the demand in this trade for years to come. Neither Chinese nor Japanese are employed in this business on the American side, and they are not essential to its success here, but being available and conveniently employed by Chinese boss contractors, they have become a part of the machinery of production, which would for a time be thrown out of gear if they were discharged. They are at present more convenient, but not essential. They displace, however, boys who could well do this work, and by whom it is chiefly done in the east and on the Sound, the fact being that while there are plenty of boys who might be employed they are left in idleness, because the Chinese are preferred. In this regard this business affords a marked illustration of the permanent injury that is being done to the youth of the country. While the Chinese are here they will be employed. l« CHAPTER XV. CANNING INDUSTRY. The Chinese have become experts in salmon canning. They are employed as a rule by Chinese bosses, who contract with the* canners at so much a case. They are used in all canneries. The number required has been greatly lessened in proportion to the pack by the introduction of machinery. Formerly all the cans used were made by Chinese; now an automatic canning: factory, run by white labour, at New Westminster, has a capacity to meet the entire demand of the province, but only about one-tenth are so supplied, the rest being made by Chinese at the various canneries. In the process, also, machinery has greatly reduced the numbers employed. Chinese labour is preferred because it is always available, easily handled, efficient and cheapi Cheap labour and large profits invited many to engage in the business. Canneries increased, the river became crowded with fishermen, competition appeared from Alaska and the Sound, and profits were reduced. Nearly all agree this industry is being overdone, both in the interest of the canneries and the fishermen, and that a depletion of the supply is threatened. *%?j. Opinion is divided among the cannerymen who testified as to the expediency of prohibiting further immigration or exclusion. Only two favoured the removal of all restriction; one declined to express an opinion; one thought the present restriction sufficient. All agreed that the Chinese labourer does not make a desirable citizen and ought not to have the franchise. Without an exception the canners who testified stated that the industry, at the present time and under existing conditions, could not be carried on successfully without the aid of Chinese. Having regard to the views generally expressed by witnesses as to a maximum development having been reached, and the possible depletion of supply and the number of Chinese now in the province, there are sufficient Chinese already in the province to meet the demand for years to come. The change will be so gradual as to be all but imperceptible, and may be met by the employment of whites and Indians. On the Sound and in Alaska Chinese are also employed in the canneries, and this, industry has there developed chiefly during the period since the Exclusion Act came into force. It has not only not retarded development, but expansion has taken place chiefly during this period. Many millions have been invested therein within the last three or four years. There is nothing disclosed in the evidence as it affects this industry which renders it inexpedient, if otherwise desirable, to exclude the further immigration of Chinese into the Dominion. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 CHAPTER XVI. DOMESTIC SERVICE. 26T Chinese, and of late Japanese, supply the demand largely for domestic servants. There is no doubt that under present conditions it is exceedingly difficult to obtain white domestic servants in British Columbia, though there were many prominent citizens, who declared that it was purely a question of wages and mistress, and that they had never had any difficulty in obtaining and keeping white gals as domestic servants. The cause of this exceptional scarcity is quite apparant. This kind of help is usually largely drawn from the families of unskilled labourers who in this way assist their income. If then the work of unskilled labourers is done by Chinese and Japanese, who take the places of fathers of families from which under normal conditions domestic servants would be drawn, the source of the supply is cut off, and every Chinaman who comes info- the country, displacing a white labourer, increases the difficulty. The Chinese first create and then fill the want. With six thousand white labourers, or even half that number with families in the four coast cities, (having regard to the number of Chinese that are actually employed as domestics, being less than a thousand all told) it is altogether probable that the supply would meet the demand, at least to the extent that it is generally met with in the east. So long as unskilled white labour is displaced so long will it be difficult, if not impossible, to get white girls for help. It was found in Seattle that very few Chinese were employed as servants. None are employed in the city of Tacoma, very few in Portland. As white labour took the place of Chinese, white servants filled the place pi Chinese servants. The fact is established that with an Exclusion Law and Chinese excluded from mills and factories, Seattle with a Chinese population of about four hundred, is fairly supplied with servant girls, while in Victoria with three thousand Chinese employed in the mills, &c, servant girls are rarely employed. The lesson is plain: as long as you have Chinese for unskilled labour you cannot expect to have white girls for domestics^ CHAPTER XVII. THE LAUNDRY BUSINESS. From eight hundred to a thousand Chinamen are engaged in this business in British Columbia, and in many places where steam laundries do not exist they.are a great convenience. Over a quarter of a million is paid out to Chinese in this business, a small proportion of which goes in circulation or benefits the country at large. CHAPTER XVIII. PARTS 1 AND 2- -MERCHANT TAILORS AND THE WHOLESALE MANUFACTURE OF CLOTHING., Part I. In no case have the Chinese encroached upon skilled labour to the same extent as they have in the tailoring business in Victoria. In 1891, there were eighteen tailor shops in Victoria, employing 150 white men and women, with a yearly wage of $109,000. No Chinese were engaged in the trade ; a few made overalls. In March,, 1901, there were employed in*Victoria in the tailoring business 21 white men and 30 women and girls, with an average wage to the men of $12 a week, and for the women $6 per week, giving a yearly total of $22,464, and fourteen firms of Chinese merchant tailors, employing 84 hands in the manufacture of clothes for white people, and two firms that manufacture only Chinese clothing. They do a large portion of what might- be called high class work, and ladies' tailor-made dresses, which in some cases formed one-third of the business. The result has been that many journeymen tailors with their families had to leave the country. It was quite clear from the evidence that it is impossible for the merchant tailors to compete without reducing wages below what a journeymen tailor can live upon and support his family and educate his children. The Chinese tailors in a few years will practically control this trade unless conditions are changed. This trade affords evidence that it is only a question of time when skilled labour in the other employments must meet this competition^ 268 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 Part 2.—In the wholesale manufacture of clothing certain parts of the trade are entirely in the hands of the Chinese. One firm put in a plant costing $2,000, with the latest machinery; employed 40 hands, girls and women, and got work from wholesale merchants at prices thajt would pay, and that had been paid to the Chinese. The firm was given the preference over the Chinese. The Chinese cut the price. The firm again oompeted at this price. The Chinese again cut the price. The firm tried to meet this by allowing their hands all they could earn at this price, but hands that were paid $1 a day could only make 40 cents on piece work at the last reduction. The firm had to go out of the business. The Chinese fix the wage and practically control this part of the industry. CHAPTER XIX.—OTHER TRADES AND CALLINGS. J. The Boot and Shoe Trade.—There is one factory at Victoria, employing 16 "CJhinese. Some years ago 60 Chinese were employed in the factory, but the market being limited in the west, it was found difficult to compete with eastern manufactures, ■even with Chinese labour. The proprietor favoured exclusion and stated that it was his intention in the near future to manufacture with white labour or not at all, as customers complained of Chinese made work. 2. Cigar-making.—Victoria is the only city in British Columbia, we believe, where Chinese are engaged in cigar making. The cigars made there are said to be chiefly for consumption by Chinese. 3. Brick-making.—At one time white labour was exclusively employed in brickmaking. Chinese are now employed' on the coast, only foremen and teamsters are .white. The Chinese live together in shacks in the brickyard, at a cost and under conditions that preclude competition. They have gradually driven out the white labourer, and the work is now practically done by them. One foreman put it,—| hundreds ' (of white men) ' apply and are turned away.' The work is usually done through Chinese bosses by contract; only Chinamen are employed. To hope that by and by the white men under these conditions will be able to replace the Chinese in the employments where they are so engaged is not justified by the facts. Where they have given place to others is where the Japanese have underbid them. One of the most successful employers in this business is Br favour of no restriction upon labour. He approves of the duty on brick. The foremen engaged in the business ;are all in favour of exclusion. 4- Lime-burning.—This work is also largely done by Chinese, (except that of fo re- men) in the proportion of seven Chinese and two white men. 5. Fruit-canning.—In this industry no Chinese are employed, the work being done by women and girls. The owner is in favour of exclusion. 6. Sugar-refining.—From 70 to 100 men are employed in this industry. Of this number 97 per cent is unskilled labour. The company has an agreement with the city not to employ Chinese labour. The manager stated that'the company had no difficulty in obtaining and keeping a full supply. 7. Cordwood-cutting.—This industry, which is of importance by reason of the large amount of wood required by the canneries, was monopolized by the Chinese; until recently the Japanese have largely superseded them. The supply of wood should be an important adjunct to the settler, the injury to whom, from its falling into the hands of Chinese and Japanese, is fully dealt with under Land Clearing. 8. Railways.—The Nanaimo and Esquimalt Railroad Company employ from 150 to 200 white men, and from 40 to 60 Chinese. On the Pacific Division of the Canadian Pacific Railway 99 Chinese are employed out of a total of 4,693 in this division. Having regard to the small number of Chinese employed, it cannot, be said that the railway is to any considerable extent dependent upon that class of labour for its successful operation. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 269 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 9. The Canadian Pacific Steamship Company.—Five hundred and seventy Chinese ,are employed on the vessels of the Canadian Steamship Company, running between Vancouver and Hong Kong. From 500 to 600 (Chinese are employed to do repairs on these vessels through a company at Hong Kong, which, if done at Vancouver, would give employment to at least 100 mechanics: which with other expenditures would amount to $10,000 or $12,000 per month. The repairs on Australian ships are done by white labour and done in their own ports. 10. Railway Construction.—The Chinese are not employed in railway construction at the present time, and have not been since the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway, with few unimportant exceptions. White labour is preferred. 11. Electric Railway in Vancouver, Victoria and New Westminster.—Nearly four hundred men are employed by this company ; all are white men.. The manager stated that there was no difficulty in getting all they required. 12. Freighting.—The Chinese engage in freighting from Ashcroft into the Cariboo mines, chiefly for Chinese merchants. CHAPTER XX UNSKILLED LABOUR. The employment of Chinese in all the avenues' of unskilled labour presses unduly upon this class of white labour, forcing many to leave the province and deterring many who would otherwise come to the province as permanent settlers. The injury to the youth of the country is equally apparent, causing deep concern to parents, which is well founded. CHAPTER XXI GENERAL MERCHANTS AND TRADERS. There are Chinese merchants in business in every city, town and village in the prov ince, except Phoenix and Sandon. Their trade is chiefly with their own people. In large centres the business of green grocers and garden vegetables is largely controlled by them. White traders are almost unanimously opposed to further Chinese immigration, for obvious reasons. They not only control the trade of their own people, but their presence in large numbers, taking the place of men with families, affects injuriously every trade interest and to a very serious extent. CHAPTER XXII—IS FURTHER RESTRICTION OR EXCLUSION DESIRED ] Public opinion in British Columbia, with few exceptions, is in favour of the pro hibition of further Chinese immigration. It is by no means confined to the labour class. They are unanimously in favour of exclusion, and this applies to both skilled and unskilled labour. Traders of all kinds in the cities, towns and villages are also largely in favour of exclusion. Farmers actually engaged in agriculture, fruit-growers, white and Indian fishermen, and a large majority of the employers who are engaged in the leading industries, are in favour of high restriction or total prohibition. The general feeling is further evidenced by the action of the Legislature which for many years has been prac- tically- unanimous in favour of exclusion, and has endeavoured to exclude them from public works and all works receiving public grants ; municipal corporations also^exclude them from corporation work; and lastly, ministers, missionaries and clergy, with few exceptions, favour either further restriction or prohibition of further immigration of this class. The suggestion that the feeling of antagonism is confined to the labouring classes, is wholly without foundation. :270 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 CHAPTER XXIII. TRADE WITH CHINA. The evidence adduced and the experience of the United States in this regard in- .dicate that further restriction or exclusion will not affect the trade of Canada with *China. CHAPTER XXIV. ANTI-CHINESE LEGISLATION ELSEWHERE. In the United States. Wherever Chinese labour has come in competition with white labour, agitation has commenced and restrictive legislation followed. In 1850 Chinese were welcomed to California; now there is an Exclusion Act and treaty, which absolutely prohibits the coming of Chinese labour into the United States. Hawaiian Islands. In 1898 the United States prohibited the immigration of Chinese into the Hawaiian Islands except upon such conditions as are now or may hereafter be allowed by the laws of the United States. J The Philippine Islands. The report of the Philippine Commission 1900, declares that the Chinese are one ot the principal causes of the commercial and industrial backwardness of the Archipelago. Australia. The Australian Colonies prior to the formation of their present commonwealth had passed restrictive legislation against the Chinese, /ind in the first session of the first parliament of the -commonwealth, an Alien Immigration Restriction Act has been passed. New Zealand. Since 1881 increased restriction has from time to time been imposed against the immigration of Chinese until in 1896 the immigration was limited to the proportion of one to every hundred tons tonnage of the vessel, with a poll tax of £100; and in 1899 an Immigration Restriction Act was passed on the lines of the Natal Act. . ** 1888 the Australian Colonies, New Zealand and Tasmania urged upon the Imperial Government that diplomatic action should be taken to obtain from China a treaty similar to that then existing between China and the United States, under which practi- «cal exclusion was enforced, but that much desired result was not obtained. CHAPTER XXV.—EFFECT OF EXCLUSION IN COAST STATES. Practical exclusion has been in force in the United States since 1894, without any injurious effect upon the industries or upon trade with China. It has had the further effect of steadily decreasing the number of Chinese in those States, who have given place to a rapidly mcreasing white population. The question is regarded as settled in .tne Coast States and .the Exclusion Law satisfactory and beneficial. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 THE CENSUS A COMPARISON. 271 British Columbia, with a population of 177,272 has 16,000 Chinese (estimated) while Washington State with a population of 518,000, has 3,629. Oregon with a population of 413,000 has 10,397 Chinese, and California with a population of 1,485,053, has 45,753 Chinese. The conditions in Washington and the natural industries more nearly resemble those of British Columbia than do the other States. The City of Victoria has nearly as many Chinese as the entire State of Washington, ^,nd nearly twenty times as many Chinese as Seattle in proportion to population. New Westminster with a population of about 6,000 contains more Chinese than Seattle with a population of nearly 100,000, while Tacoma with a population of about €0,000 has no Chinese whatever. Further comparisons might readily be made, but the above clearly indicates the large proportion of Chinese in British Columbia as compared with the Coast States. In British Columbia they have increased during the last decade from 8,910 to 16,000 (estimated). In the three Coast States they have decreased from 85,272 to 59,779. CHINESE IMMIGRATION. British Columbia. 1885-6.... 1886-7.... 1887-8.... 1888 -9.... 1889-1890. 1890-1.... 1891-2.... 1892-3.... Registrations for leave 1893-4 1894 5. 1895-6 1896-7 1897-8 1898-9 1899-1900 211 116 296 764' 1,065 2,108 3,264 2,199 1900-1 To Oct. 31, 1901 To Dec 31 2,044 1,382 1,722 2,417 2,137 4,279 3,880 1,338 983 617 375 J1.197 Other. 8 3 9 4 6 8 45 43 58 40 30 58 106 351 149 48 31 Not given, 977 Total. Capitation Tax at $50. Exempt. 211 124 299 773 1,069 2,114 3,272 2,244 2,087 1,440 1,762 2,447 2,175 4,385 4,231 1,487 *1,031 *648 *375 10,550 6,200 14,950 38,650 53,450 105,700 163,600 112,200 104,350 72,000 88.100 122,350 108,750 219,250 211,550 177,450 64,800 37,500 32,174 1,711,400 Less refunds, $18,900. 112 97 12 6 14 22 22 24 24 17 17 26 26 12 15 447 Certificates of Leave. 827 734 923 1,267 1,671 1,617 2,168 106 J,17I 666 473 697 768 802 859 1,102 1,204 670 Not given. * At $100 Certificates of leave. 9,313 Registrations for leave 8,412 Certificates of leave outstanding and lapsed from 1885 to present time. . 4,850 Registrations for leave, C. I. 9, valid at present time 1,066 Note—1,975 Chinese entered British Columbia in the year 1901 who paid the capitation tax of $100. 272 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Return showing Chinese entered for the purpose of passing in transitu through Canada and those passed out who have arrived in transitu from other ports. 1887-88 1888-89 1889-90 1890-91 1891-92 1892-93 1893-94 1894-95 1895-96 1896-97 1897-98 1898-99 1899-1900.... 1900-01 1901-Oct. 31, Year. 1902. Bkitish Columbia. Entered. 1 3,309 362 233 720 3,650 2,316 1,024 2,048 4,035 2,455 2,177 1,885 1,694 729 26,638 Passed out. 1 6,01X3 1,108 1,676 983 2,511 1,863 1,437 1,456 1,599 1,349 1,505 1,860 1,907 690 23,521 Other Provinces. Entered. 11 118 226 182 208 438 349 326 223 441 230 2,752 Passed out. 11 596 834 422 744 1,587 1,118 723 323 236 200 6,794 Total entered Total passed out. 29,390 30,315 CHAPTER XXVIL—CONCLUSION. 1. The advent of Chinese in large numbers into British Columbia dates back to the early sixties, and the discovery of the rich placer fields of Cariboo and Cassiar. Later when this industry waned numbers of the Chinese left the country, but some remained. During the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway, however, large numbers again came in, so that as the great industries began to develop there was always a supply of cheap labour available, first the Indians, then the Chinese, and lately the Japanese. The Indians in the sawmills were gradually displaced by the Chinese, who in turn are now being superseded by Japanese. Some of the employers in effect said : we have always had cheap labour, and we require cheap labour to carry on our industries; it doesn't matter what kind it is, whether it be white, black or yellow, so long as it is cheap and in sufficient supply. Will the prohibition of further immigration of Chinese labour injuriously affect the various industries of the country ? To answer this question satisfactorily each industry must be examined separately, regard being had to its peculiar position and special requirements ; and this has been done in every case with great care. The various chapters in which the several industries are dealt with give the evidence and findings relating to' each. A few of the facts may, however, be here indicated. In the important matter of land clearing, farming and settlement, the view of those who are especially interested (excepting only the large land owners, and those who rent their land to Chinese, and very few others, who cannot be said to look to farming exclusively for their livelihood) is voiced in the one word,—exclusion. In the mining industries, which in 1901 produced twenty millions, the Chinese contributed to the production of the* gold output a small fraction of the whole, confined almost exclusively to the placer mines. They are not employed in the collieries in the interior; on the coast they are employed for surface work, but not underground, except in the Union Mines. A point not to be lost sight of is the fact that the manager of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 273 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the Company that is the largest exporter of coal, where they are employed, is in favour of total exclusion, and thinks the remedy ought to be applied at once. The president of the other collieries of the coast where they are employed, is in favour of higher restriction and the Natal Act, as indicated in his official utterance as Premier of the Province;: on the other hand the general manager of this company favours unrestricted immigration. Chinese are not employed in the coal mines of the Pacific Coast States. The lumber industry must be treated, for clearness, under two heads,—1. The1 export trade ; 2. The local and eastern trade. The export trade is done by five mills, of which three represent 97 per cent, and of the three, the largest exporter (nearly one-half the total in 1900), is the only one that employs Chinese to any extent, and the manager of this large concern is in favour of total exclusion j the next largest employs only some nine or ten as cooks, and the third only employs some five or six, and these not directly in connection with the export trade; so that for this part o'f the industry it is perfectly plain that they are not essential. It may be here noticed that the exclusion of further immigration of the labouring class of Chinese is desired by the two principal exporters of lumber and coal. • The local and eastern lumber trade is in many hands, and the undoubted voice of most of the employers examined, representing this branch of the business, is in favour of exclusion or higher restriction. In Washington State Chinese are not employed in the mills, and after nearly twenty years' experience of an Exclusion Law the mill owners favour its continuance. The shingle business in British Columbia has developed to large proportions, and Chinese are employed in considerable numbers and are regarded as at present necessary for the trade. The difference in cost, if white labour were employed, was estimated at three cents per thousand. Shingles are now produced at a shade less on the American side. It should also be noted here that this industry, which has assumed enormous proportions in Washington State and Oregon, is carried on exclusively by white labour. In the province there are 74 salmon canneries, which are owned and operated by between forty and fifty companies and individuals. In no other industry are the Chinese as largely employed. Their numbers have steadily increased as the industry developed, although by the introduction of machinery the number in proportion to the pack has largely decreased. It is said they are peculiarly suited to the work. The fluctuating character of this industry in respect of the supply of fish and the market for the product, and the large number of hands required during the busy season,, deserves special mention. In no other industry is there so much uncertainty as to when? and to what extent labour may be employed, owing to the lack of knowledge of the conditions of the supply. From the passing runs of salmon they must be caught and put. into tins without delay, and the hands must be there ready to do the work. In an emergency occasioned by an unexpectedly heavy run difficulty is sometimes found in getting an immediate supply of labour. It was stated that in some cases the bulk of the season's pack is obtained in several days. Apart from the men who are engaged in- making the tins the Chinese labour is drawn from other occupations, to which they return as soon as the canning season is over. The Chinese being available and easily conveyed to the canneries, this industry was established and carried forward more with regard to advantageous location for obtaining fish than to obtaining a supply of white labour. In the adjoining State of Washington the industry was first established in the year 1892. Chinese are also there employed, but not to the same extent as in British Columbia. In the last few years the development of this industry in Washington State has been very great, many millions being expended in plant, and the pack now exceeds that of British Columbia. This development has taken place during the years of the Chinese Exclusion Act in the United States. In most cases their canneries are located with a view to convenience in securing available labour of girls and youths from the adjacent towns and villages, who take the place of the Chinese for inside work to a certain extent. British Columbia, with a white population of 129,000, has about 16,000 Chinese ; while Washington State, with a white population of 518,000, has 3,600 Chinese,, where 54—18 274 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 about 2,500 are employed in the canneries • some are brought up from Portland, while some of the Chinese in Washington State go to the Alaska canneries. The white fishermen who are numerically a great factor in the industry, ard deeply interested in the success of the canneries that afford the only market for their fish, are practically unanimous in their opposition to any further immigration of the Chinese, notwithstanding the fact that if the canneries had to pay a higher price for inside labour, the price of fish would be most likely to be affected by it. We repeat the closing statement contained in the summary of the chapter where this matter is fully dealt with :— Had there been no Chinese in the country, it is probable that the whites and Indians would have been trained to the business, and would have furnished sufficient ^supply, but the almost exclusive employment of Chinese through their boss contractor, who "naturally employs his own countrymen, where available, has practically shut the <loor against whites and Indians and prevented them from learning the business. The exclusion of further Chinese is not likely to seriously affect this industry, for (a.) There are sufficient Chinese already in the province to meet the demand for years to come, having regard to the views generally expressed by witnesses as to a maximum development having been reached, and the possible depletion of supply and the number of Chinese now in the province. (b.) The change will be so gradual as-to be all but imperceptible, and may be met by the employment of whites and Indians. (c.) On the Sound where the Exclusion Act has been in force iof many years and the number of Chinese has decreased in the last decade, it has not retarded the development of this industry, but on the contrary this industry has received its chief expansion during this period ; many millions having been invested therein within the last three or four years, and this, although Chinese are employed both on the Sound and in Alaska, as they are in British Columbia. There is nothing disclosed in the evidence as it affects, this industry which renders it inexpedient, if otherwise desirable, to exclude the further immigration of Chinese into the Dominion. As cooks and domestics the Chinese are distributed throughout the whole province. As cooks and assistants in hotels and restaurants, on steamboats, in camps, &c, it may be safely said that they outnumber all others. The wages they receive are equal at least to what is paid usually for the same class of labour in eastern Canada. They are regarded favourably by their employers, principally because of their sobriety, machine-like regularity, economy, and their disposition to remain with one employer. Complaints were frequently made of the instability and uncertainty of white men as cooks, and it was stated that the employment of Chinese was a necessary result. There can be little doubt, however, that relief would be found in a great measure by a withdrawal of the Chinese from this occupation, in consequence of which a better class of men would become available for positions where men only could be employed. In domestic service they are found valuable, useful and convenient. The wages paid to them are as high at least as are paid to white women and girls in British Columbia, and higher than is usually paid for similar services in eastern Canada. In addition to the ordinary work performed by servant girls, they do many small chores and services which the former cannot do. They are punctual, obedient, and desirous of pleasing their employer. They generally accept the discipline of a strict mistress, and do not readily take offence at the petty annoyances of housework. There are no questions of social rank and privileges. The Chinaman does his work well for his employer for so much money, and there their interest in each other may be said to cease. Servant girls are difficult to obtain in British Columbia • they are not there in large numbers. Even family nurse girls are hard to secure. The problem of securing domestic servants is not, however, confined to British Columbia, though the extreme scarcity there can undoubtedly be largely accounted for by the presence of the Chinese. The source from which a supply would be expected is shut off. It is not usually the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 275 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 family of the skilled mechanic or of those who earn high wages that provide this class of labour • it is obtained from the families of those who for one reason or another do not enter the higher paid callings, and who are forced to look for employment in the avenues of labour which are occupied by the Chinese. It would not require a great number of families of the labouring class to provide servants to the number of Chinese now employed in domestic work, and from these again in any new country is the hope of a steadily increasing population and permanent settlement of the country to be looked for. A report of the Seattle Bureau of Labour furnishes an interesting example of how this class of servants may find employment, and at the same time supply the demand of those requiring this class of labour. With reference to the other industries, trades and callings, reference may be had to the chapters where they are treated. In the great majority of cases and with the great mass of people, the Chinese are not desired and not required, and are regarded as a great injury to the country. The supply of this class of labour already in the country is sufficient to meet the demand for all the industries, not only for the present, but for years to come. There is one consideration as it affects the various industries that ought not to be lost sight of. Exact data from the census is not before us, but in a total estimated population of 177,000, of whom 129,000 only are whites, the presence of about 16,000 adult unmarried males, trading with their own people and importing largely their own food, and finally taking the greater part of their earnings with them to China, is a vital matter. Under normal conditions this number of adult males ought to represent a population of from 50,000 to 75,000 at the least, of men, women and children, requiring homes, and creating a demand which would affect favourably every industry, trade and calling in the province. This great advantage which ought to flow from the development of the country's natural resources is thus largely curtailed by the employment of this class of labour. Some employers call attention to the fact that certain industries create a larger demand for unskilled labour during the summer season, e. g. placer mining and prospecting : timber logging on the coast and land clearing is carried forward more vigorously in summer, owing to climatic conditions; the canning season is almost wholly confined to six or eight weeks in summer, and at the same time the demand for farm help is at its height. Your Commissioners are of the opinion that the interests of the country are not promoted to the best advantage by any undue stimulus to one or more particular industry in the way of cheap labour in unlimited. supply; rather is it better that any industry should not quickly reach its maximum point of development, but that the industries of the country as a whole should be raged and built up, all inter dependent, each supporting the other as far as possible in the elements of production • and that those who find employment therein should be permanent settlers with homes, and recognizing the responsibilities and discharging the duties of citizenship. The great industries should be able to adjust themselves by a gradual change from the employment of Chinese to those of our own race who come in to take their places. There is a surplus in the country now, excepting for a very short time in the summer season, and hundreds in winter are unemployed, ready to enter any avenue of unskilled labour that may open. In order that the situation in British Columbia may be fairly understood it should be mentioned here that relatively speaking, there is at present a small fraction of the population engaged in agricultural pursuits or in industries kindred thereto. Employment is chiefly given by the mines, fisheries and lumbering industry from which spring auxiliary enterprises, trade, and the employments attendant and necessary to those engaged directly as primary producers. The character of these resources, generally speaking, requires a large amount of capital for their successful prosecution. There are few in the province who may be termed capitalists ; the money invested is largely from without the province. From this it will be observed that the employers as a class are numerically few in number. From amongst this class are the only avowed opponents of 54—181 276 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 further restriction or exclusion, and the evidence does not disclose any great number of them • their objection was solely on economic grounds. They were opposed to granting the Chinese the rights of citizenship or to encouraging the assimilation of the races. The repeated expression of opinion by the provincial legislature may be regarded as a fair reflex of public opinion as a whole on this question. Frequently it was asserted that one of the chief objections to the Chinese was that they would work for too low a wage, that the question was one largely between capital and labour. The mere appearance of this class of labour, standing as a wedge between the employer and the labourer, is sufficient in itself to arouse the antipathy of the latter. Whatever may have been their relations in the past in this respect, it cannot now be denied that industrial progress and peace can only be assured by bringing the employer and white labourer closer together, and by their understanding each other better. By the gradual removal of the Chinese—-one of the chief estranging elements—the industries should not suffer, and a further approach to a better understanding between the employer and the employed be the result. 2. In the older provinces the disturbing element introduced by Chinese coolie labour has not yet been felt to any serious extent. Immigrants who come to other parts of Canada come to make it their home and meet on an equal footing. In British Columbia this normal condition of equal opportunity is disturbed by an immigration so different in kind, in civilization, in manner and cost of living, that it puts the unskilled working man at a disadvantage in every avocation in life where he meets this class of labour, and he meets it everywhere. He insists that he does not seek to disturb normal conditions but to restore them, and to be placed on a common footing and given an equal chance to obtain a living for himself and his family. A great need of British Columbia at the present time is actual settlers, and especially upon the land. A settler with small means can only afford to clear his land by utilizing the wood and timber upon it and by getting outside work. Under present conditions he is cut off from this assistance from either source. Will he realize from his wood and timber or find work in the lumber mills, shingle mills, or as surface worker at the mines ? In all these and other occupations where unskilled labour is employed he finds the Chinese, working at a wage that bars him out. It is not correct to say that there is plenty of work for unskilled labour, unless you add \ at the wage for which the Chinamen work,' and even then it is not true, because in most cases Chinamen work in gangs under a Chinese boss, where white men are not wanted; and for a part of the year numbers of .Chinese are also out of employment. Another feature of this class of labour is that it creates a dislike? amounting to contempt, for the work itself in whatever calling it is employed. The majority of working men will not, if they can avoid it, work with Chinamen ; they feel that they would be degraded in the eyes of their associates by so doing. Nor is the dislike of those pursuits in which Chinese are engaged confined to the adult labourer, it is shared by the youth of the country as well, and labour is degraded where it ought to be honoured. The constant presence of this class, with hundreds being added to their number every year, is a real danger to the very existence of the white working man. He becomes dissatisfied and in many cases leaves the province, or if he remains, advises his friends not to come. The satisfied settler is the best immigration agent, but it was evident that this important influence is directed against immigration of that class of settlers of which the country is most in need, and solely because of the presence of this class of labour. That they are employed in many industries is readily understood. They are noted for faithful observance of contracts, they are docile, plodding and obedient to servility, easily obtained through boss contractors, accept accommodation unfit and intolerable to a white man, working in gangs under a Chinese boss who has the contract, and who makes his profits chiefly in furnishing them supplies at a high price. A glance at the conditions under which the white workingman and the Chinese, compete will show how unfair this competition is. The one is expected to discharge the ordinary duties of citizenship to himself, his family and his country ; rent must be paid, food provided, and the family decently clothed ; yet he is put in competition with one ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 277 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 who does not assume any of these duties, and who lives under conditions insufferable to a white man. Fifty cents a month or less pays the rent, a few cents a day supplies the food, he has no home, wife or family in this country : he shows no desire to change, he is well content as he is until such time as he can return to China and take his savings with him. Fifty years or more on this continent has made little or no change in him or his manner of living. The fact is established beyond all doubt, that under present conditions the white labouring man cannot compete with the Chinese and decently support his family. It is wholly illusory to say that wages are fair for the ordinary working man. He may get work at odd jobs which a Chinaman cannot do, but the real avenues for unskilled labour that are afforded by the natural industries of the province are practically closed against him, while the cost of living is very much higher than in the east. The workingman is further embittered by the fact that not only is he compelled to compete under these unfair conditions, but he also finds the places which he has a right to expect his sons and daughters to fill, occupied by Chinese, and his children growing up in idleness and despising honest labour. Many parents and others expressed concern for what they regard as the dark future for the youth of the province. We found an intense feeling, taking the form of indignant protest, against the wrong thus done to the rising generation. In eastern Canada it is not so • there the youths are employed in the lighter work connected with the leading industries; they thus become familiar with the business, acquire the knowledge necessary, and gradually work up to positions requiring more skill, thus providing for the transition from boyhood to manhood, giving thoroughness to the man and affording a constant supply of trained hands ready to meet the demand for this class of labour, and promoting the stability of the industry. The above applies with greater or less force in the case of women and girls who have to seek a livelihood by their own work. It was urgied upon us by some that the effect of this cheap class of labour is to increase the number of skilled labourers employed and to increase their wages. The skilled mechanic did not admit this contention to be true, and declared if it were true he did not want the advantage. There ought to be no distinction in opportunity between different classes of labour, and besides, the fate of the unskilled labourer to-day may in time be the fate of those engaged in the more skilled employments. In many lines the encroachment has commenced. From the position of the labouring man the admission of this class of labour is unfair, unjust and deadly in its effect; unfair because it does not affect all alike; unjust because it robs the poorest of half his income from his only capital, and deadly because it strikes at home life and the wage-earning class. Labour in effect says : You guard this country against being made a slaughter market for cheap goods, where the manufacturer is able to limit supply and fix prices; yet you ask me to accept conditions where the supply is unlimited and the prices not fixed. You admit this competitor is not my equal; is not now and never will become a citizen; you debar him from municipal work and deprive him of the franchise. You admit that I cannot live decently upon what he lives upon, nor work for the wages he works for, yet you ask me to submit to this unequal and degrading competition and at the same time expect me to assume and discharge all the duties of good citizenship. There ought to be some comity in this matter. I ask that normal conditions be restored by preventing any further immigration of this class of labour. 3. British Columbia is especially favoured by nature in the versatility and richness of her natural resources, which it is believed Canadians are able to develop, and which if properly applied are capable of supporting a vast and permanent population. This nation building should be based upon a sound foundation of good citizenship, in which every useful employment is honourable, and where the dignity of labour is recognized and preserved. If the end to be sought is the building up of the nation, and not the exploitation of these resources, the one vital interest to be secured above all others is an immigration of settlers of whom we may hope to make Canadians, in the highest and best sense of that word. That this object ought to be the one in view is supported by the recent public utterance of a very distinguished personage, when he said :— 278 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 " No one who has the privilege which we have had during* our tour could fail to be struck with one all-prevailing and pressing demand—the want of population. Even in the oldest of our colonies were abundant signs of this need,—boundless tracts of country yet unexplored, hidden mineral wealth calling for development, vast expanses of virgin soil ready to yield profitable crops to the settler; and these can be enjoyed under conditions of healthy living, liberal laws, free institutions, in exchange fcr the overcrowded cities and the almost hopeless struggle for existence which, alas, too often is the lot of many in the old country. But one condition, and one only, is made by our colonial governments, and that is—send us suitable immigrants. I would go further and appeal to my fellow countrymen at home to prove the strength of the attachment of the motherland to her children, by sending them only of her best. By this means we may still further strengthen, or at all events pass on unimpaired, that pride of race, that unity of sentiment and purpose, that feeling of common loyalty and obligation which, knit together, alone can maintain the integrity of our Empire." How far do the Chinese of the labour or coolie class approach to this standard % They come from southern China, drawn from the poorer classes, reared in poverty where a few cents a day represent the earnings which must suffice for a family; accustomed to crowd together in small tenements or huts, close, unhealthy and filthy • with customs, habits and modes of life fixed and unalterable, resulting from an ancient and effete civilization, with no desire to conform to western ideas. They form, on their arrival, a community within a community, separate and apart, a foreign substance within, but not of our body politic, with no love for our laws and institutions; a people that will not assimilate or become an integral part of our race and nation. With their habits of overcrowding, and an utter disregard of all sanitary laws, they are a continual menace to health. From a moral and social point of view, living as they do without home life, schools or churches, and so nearly approaching a servile class, their effect upon the rest of the community is bad. They pay no fair proportion of the taxes of the country. They keep out immigrants who would become permanent citizens, and create conditions inimical to labour and dangerous to the industrial peace of the community where they come. They spend little of their earnings in the country and trade chiefly with their own people. They fill the places that ought to be occupied by permament citizens, many of whom leave the country on their account. They are unfit for full citizenship, and are permitted to take no part in municipal or provincial government. Upon this point there was entire unanimity. They are not and will not become citizens in any sense of the term as we understand it. They are so nearly allied to a servile class that they are obnoxious to a free community and dangerous to the state. Situated as this province is, upon the seaboard, it should possess a stalwart, homogeneous and united population, capable and willing to defend the country in case of attack. In this regard the Chinese are a real source of weakness. It is incredible that British Columbia,admittedly one of the richest countries in the world in natural resources,—with its vast forests, unsurpassed fisheries, minerals of all kinds, and large tracts of delta and other lands suitable for agriculture,—cannot be developed without the assistance of Chinese labour. Your Commissioners believe that it is impossible for the province of British Columbia to take its place and part in the Dominion as it ought to do, unless its population is free from any taint of servile labour and is imbued with a sense of the duties and responsibilities appertaining to citizenship. This class of immigration falls far short of that standard so essential to the well- being of the country. From a Canadian standpoint it is injurious, and in the interest of the nation any further immigration ought to be prohibited. The great industries will not suffer. There is a surplus of this class of labour at the present time ready to enter any avenue of unskilled labour that may open. If no more were admitted the supply is equal to the demand for years to come, and the change will be so gradual as to be almost imperceptible. There are more Chinese today in Victoria and adjacent thereto, than in the whole State of Washington. The Chinese labourers who are already in the country will be benefitted by the change. Trade with China will rather be promoted than otherwise, by removing a cause of friction, as has been found to be the case in the United States in their trade with China since the Exclusion Act. The ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 279 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 interests of the Empire can best be served by building up a strong and united Canada, able not only to defend herself, but afford help if need be to the Mother Country. Whatever permanently weakens British Columbia weakens the Dominion and the Empire, and no material gain to individual interests ought to weigh for one moment against this injury to the nation. The right to discriminate against foreigners has been recognized in our tariff and immigration laws, and it has recently been held by the highest Court of Appeal for the- British Empire, that an alien has no right which can be enforced by action, to enter British territory. (See Musgrove vs. Chun Teeong Toy, Appeal Cases, 1891, page 272.) In this connection it may not be out of place to call attention to the recent promise- made by the British government to appoint a commission to inquire into the whole question of immigration into Great Britain, with a view of excluding undesirable- immigrants. If it could be said with truth that the effect upon the labour class of Chinese- coming to British Columbia was to raise them up and to make of them good citizens,. and more rapidly bring them under the influence of Christian teaching, it might be urged, from a humanitarian standpoint, that a duty devolved upon this nation to receive- them.j but a reference to the evidence, and especially to that of the many Christian teachers who were called, clearly shows that such is not the fact. From a moral and Christian standpoint the Chinese labourers in British Columbia as a class are not. improved. Those who are here, however, are entitled to receive all the protection which our law can give. 4. In reference to the representations made by the people and Legislature of British Columbia, wherein it is alleged : " That the province is flooded with an undesirable class of people, non-assimilative and most detrimental to the wage-earning classes of the people of the province, and that this extensive immigration of orientals is also a menace to the health of the community; " That there is probability of a great disturbance to the economic conditions in the province and of grave injury being caused to the working classes by the large influx of labourers from China, as the standard of living of the masses of the people in that country differs so widely from the standard prevailing in the province, thus enabling them to work for a much less wage ; "That it is in the interests of the Empire that the Pacific province of the Dominion should be occupied by a large and thoroughly British population rather than by one in which the number of aliens would form a large proportion ;" We find that these representations are substantially true and urgently call for a remedy. We also find that the increase of the capitation tax from $50 to $100 is ineffective and inadequate. Your Commissioners are of opinion that the further immigration of Chinese labourers into Canada ought to be prohibited • That the most desirable and effective means of attaining this end is by treaty supported by suitable legislation • That in the meantime and until this can be obtained the capitation tax should be raised to $500. The only point upon which your Commissioners could not agree is the date when the capitation tax of $500 ought to come into effect. The Chairman and Commissioner Foley are of opinion that the capitation tax should be raised to $500 at once, while Commissioner Munn is of opinion that $300 should be imposed for two years, and if a prohibitive treaty be not obtained within that period, that it be then raised to $500. R. C. CLUTE, Chairman, D. J. MUNN, C. FOLEY. 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 1902 APPENDIX. 1 Addresses of Counsel, Mr. C. Wilson, K.C., for the Province of British Columbia, and Mr. A. D. Taylor for the Chinese Board of Trade. Extracts from the Report of the Philippine Commission. Hon. Oliver P. Morton's Minority Report, U. S. Commission, 1876. ADDRESS TO THE ROYAL COMMISSION OF C. WILSON, K.C. Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen op the Commission : At the close of the labours of the Commission in this province, may I .be permitted to express my keen appreciation of the unvarying courtesy, urbanity and patience (sometimes under trying circumstances) of every member of the Commission. From the distinguished lawyer who presides, one not unnaturally expected the exercise of high judicial qualities, and certainly there has been no disappointment. But it was a pleasure to find that those members of the Commission, whose lives have been passed in other pursuits, were also capable of exercising judicial duties in such a highly acceptable manner. So exhaustive, in fact, has the -examination of the Commission been, so sincere a desire to ascertain the whole truth been manifested, that the duties of counsel have been greatly lessened. For myself, I have carefully followed the direction given at the outset of our labours not to put a question to a witness unless it would elicit a new fact. The question of Chinese and Japanese immigration naturally divides itself into five classes: (1) The economic or industrial, (2) the social, (3) the moral, (4) the religious, . (5) the national or political. I only propose to deal with the first and the last, and, to clear the ground may say that I have no idea of advocating expulsion, but do propose to advocate a policy of restriction which will amount to absolute exclusion, and to show by the evidence that further admission is not expedient in the interest of any industry, and is absolutely dangerous from the national or political standpoint. I exclude the social, moral and religious aspects, not because they are unimportant, but, important as they are, and necessary for the well being of the state, they are dwarfed by the grave and serious character of the other two aspects of the question, and are not properly subject to legislative control. It will be obvious from what has been said that it will not be necessary to discuss the fact of their personal cleanliness, coupled with an utter disregard of the laws of sanitation, at any length. Neither will it be necessary to argue that as servants they are not faithful, sober, fairly honest and industrious. I propose to found my position upon the proposition that no industry has been called into existence by their presence, but that being here they have been made use of. That they will gradually encroach upon and exclude the white, worker from fields of labour now exclusively occupied, and rightly occupied by him, and that living as they do under conditions and in a manner intolerable to our own people, the nature of the competition is an exceedingly unfair one. That the strength of a people depends on the good condition and the inteUigence of the masses. 281 ' 282 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The foundation of all social order is based upon a vigorous and intelligent people, and the State cannot long endure whose foundation rests not upon those of its own race and kind, but upon a race not only alien in so far as their birth is concerned, but of a different type of humanity and civilization, who care nothing for our institutions, nothing for our laws, except in so far as they affect their own temporary welfare; a people alien in manners and customs, who are not homogeneous, who do not assimilate with us, who would not if they could, and who could not if they would, who are absolutely indifferent to the well-being of the state, who expect to return to their own land either dead or alive, and whatever virtues they possess have also characteristics which render it very undesirable that they should ever become members of our body politic. In the time allotted to me to sum up the evidence on behalf of the province of British Columbia, I may mention that there are two ways of dealing with that question. One would be to wait until the shorthand writer's notes had been transcribed, and then to make a careful and exhaustive analysis of the evidence, which would carry conviction to the mind of any one who chose to verify the references and take the trouble to study the subject. The other, and that is the method which I propose to adopt, it being the only one that I can adopt within the time, will be to state the effect that the evidence has had upon my mind, and to endeavour as well as I possibly can to impress the minds of the Commissioners with the view which, in consequence of the evidence, I entertain, and which I may say, to put it briefly, is: That the immensely preponderating mass of the evidence is in favour of such a measure of restriction as to amount to absolute exclusion. I may state at the outset that* I have not the slightest desire to address the Commission in such a way as to give rise to the inference that the evidence, while pointing to total exclusion, is calculated in any way to disturb our political or commercial relations with either Japan or China. We simply object to a common interchange of labourers, using that word in its wider sense. Before entering upon the general question, I desire to say a few words with respect to the position assumed by my learned friend, Mr. Cassidy, who represented the Japanese. If I have grasped his idea rightly, then he primarily put it on the ground that it would be a highly improper thing, having regard to the position assumed in the family of nations by the empire of Japan, to pass any measures calculated in the slightest degree to interfere with the commercial relations existing between that empire and ourselves, or placing any barrier on freedom of intercourse between the subjects of that empire and the subjects of King Edward. China certainly is not one of the nations entitled to invoke international law in favour of the unrestricted right of all classes of its people to enter the territory of another nation. The events of the past year show clearly that that empire is not even able to enforce within its own borders the simplest rules of international obligation. I am unable to advance any opinion whether or no Japan is one of the modern civilized states that regard the certain rules of conduct, called international law, as being binding on it. I refer to the following passage from Mr. Hall's book on the subject as casting some doubt upon it. At page 42 he says : ' It is scarcely necessary to point out that as international law is a product of the special civilization of modern Europe, and forms a highly artificial system, of which the principles cannot be supposed to be understood or recognized by countries differently civilized, such states only can be presumed to be subject to it as are inheritors of that civilization. They have lived and are living under law, and a positive act of withdrawal would be required to free them from its restraints. But states outside European civilization must formally enter into the circle of law-governed countries. They must do something with the acquiescence of the latter, or of some of them, which amounts to an acceptance of the law in its entirety beyond all possibility of misconstruction. It is not enough, consequently, that they shall enter into arrangements by treaty identical with arrangements made by law-governed powers, nor that they shall do acts, like sending and receiving permanent embassies, which are compatible with ignorance or rejection of law. On the other hand, an express act of accession can hardly be looked upon as requisite. When a new state comes into existence its position is regulated by like considerations. If by its origin it inherits European civilization, the presumption is so high that it intends to conform to law, that the first act purporting to be a state act which is done by it, ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 283 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 unaccompanied by warning of intention not to conform, must be taken as indicating an intention to conform, and brings it consequently within the sphere of law. If, on the other hand, it falls by its origin into the class of states outside European civilization, it can, of course, only leave them by a formal act of the kind already mentioned. A tendency has shown itself of late to conduct relations with states, which are outside the sphere of international law, to a certain extent in accordance with its rules, and a tendency has also shown itself on the part of such states to expect that European countries shall behave in conformity with the standard which they have themselves set up.' . Mr. Cassidy also put it upon another ground. That is, that our refusal of intercourse with them, and our suggestions that they do not assimilate with us, and that we would not assimilate with them, was not calculated to promote that good feeling which should exist between the two nations. Now, I disavow any intention of casting any reflection whatsoever upon a people who have shown the readiness that the Japanese have shown, to adopt western civilization, and who are certainly celebrated for the politeness and courtesy with which their intercourse with Europeans is carried on. There are notable instances of intermarriage between the two nations, so that I do not put it upon that ground. My objection is that (while there are exceptions' to the rule) the average Japanese remains what he always was, a Japanese, and notwithstanding the fact that he may take out a certificate of naturalization in this country, | he never becomes, in truth and in fact, a Canadian, but always remains a Japanese. I think further, that susceptible as these people are, means may readily be found by those in authority, for so arranging matters, as that the immigration of Japanese labourers into this country may be restricted without wounding their amour propre, and without creating any friction between the two countries. It seems to me that it would be a gracious act on the part of the ruler of that country, if, when he found that the labourers of his own country were unacceptable visitors to us, he forbade them from coming here. In other words, diplomatic intercourse may result, and should result, in restriction so far as the Japanese are concerned, as a result of action on the part of their own ruler. If, however, this cannot be achieved, then we have to act ourselves, and I do not hesitate to say that it is no new doctrine to state that a country not only can, but should, when the self-preservation of any particular class of its own people becomes necessary, prohibit the entry into the country of unassimilable and undesirable immigrants. There are many instances in past history not only of the exclusion of the people of one nation from another, but also of the expulsion of great numbers of people ; e.g., the expulsion of the Jews from Spain and the Huguenots from France and the Jews from Russia. Before dealing with the industries, I desire, however, to say a few words with respect to sanitation and health, and to clear the ground somewhat as to some other of the subjects that have been dealt with. The evidence indicates that both of these oriental nations possess a very large degree of personal cleanliness, coupled with the most utter disregard of those sanitary regulations which are considered by Europeans necessary for the welfare of the community. It seems somewhat singular that this personal cleanliness should be coupled with filthiness in other directions in the way that it is, but it is certainly true that such is the case. The evidence of Captain Clive Phillips-Woolley shows some of the mischief arising from the disregard of these regulations, and Dr. Wade adds medical testimony of the evils resulting from that disregard, notably in relation to typhoid and smallpox. Dr. Fraser and other sanitary officers tell us that conditions within the last few months have improved. I think it can be said without doubt or hesitation, that the very existence of the Commission has largely improved them, and that the coming of the Commission into the different Chinese quarters has tended to a general clean up, culminating in the disastrous burning of the Chinese quarters at Union. The industries chiefly affected by oriental immigration are : (1) lumber; (2) fishing and canning • (3) mining; (4) domestic service; (5) tailoring; (6) cigar-making; (7) laundry • (8) market gardening | and (9) boat-building. I only propose to deal at some little length with the first four of these subjects. The other five, while of equally grave importance with the first four, do not employ in their business so large a number of persons, and while the injury done to them is in some respects greater than in the larger 284 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 industries, it does not as a state question make itself so greatly felt, and the time at my disposal does not permit me to deal with the several subjects exhaustively. I will, therefore, confine myself to this, that so far as those industries are concerned, the whites have been really driven out, and their places taken by the Chinese and Japanese, particularly is that so with tailoring and market gardening. By the employment of improved methods and machinery, it would appear as if the laundryman was once more beginning to hold his own with his oriental competitor. Turning now to the lumber industry. The evidence of the witnesses would seem to show that this industry is not in a good condition, and the reason seems to be because the price of the British Columbia product is regulated by the foreign market, and the absence of protection to our own market. Again the local market seems to be largely depending on the canning and mining industries. Depression in either of these industries producing like depression in the lumber trade. Mr. Alexander points out most forcibly that eighty per cent of the labour employed by them is white, more* than eighty per cent of the wages being paid to white men, the remainder being paid to the orientals. His evidence may be briefly summed up to this extent, that owing to .existing -conditions of the trade the cost of production cannot be increased • in other words, to sell profitably under existing conditions, the limit for the payment of wages has been reached, and that to place any impediment in the way of the trade as it at present stands, would be to exclude twenty per cent of oriental labour and eighty per cent of white labour. In other words, the existence of this amount of white labour depends upon the proportion of oriental labour now engaged in the trade. The limit of profitable production having been reached, they cannot afford to employ white labour at all ■except by employing a certain amount, namely, 20 per cent of oriental or cheap labour. Now, this appears to involve several very serious propositions. First, it would appear that the British Columbia manufacturer or lumberman has not control of the market, and the reason assigned is because he is brought into competition with lumber mills, chiefly the Port Blakely mill on the other side, which, it appears, employs some 300 Japs. Second, that the United States mill owners have an enormous- market in their own country, from which, by reason of the protection which the government extends to them, we are absolutely excluded. It would appear, then, as if one of the chief export mills on the other side employed Japanese labour, and it would also appear that the very thing which the British Columbia lumberman demands, namely, cheap labour, has ■created a necessity for its own existence• for if the United States pursued the same policy [ of exclusion towards the Japs as they have towards the Chinese, the .competition which I the British Columbia lumberman would then meet, would be a competition of white I labour alone, in which the same field for obtaining it would be open to him as to the American. The only disadvantage that he would then labour under would be the lack of protection in his own country, an evil which it would seem admits of a very easy remedy. That this last, the lack of protection here, owing to the repealing of the Wilson bill in the United States, has been a very serious evil, there can be no doubt. It gives the American manufacture the advantage of his enormous home market, an equal •competition with ourselves in the general markets of the world, and, lastly, the liberty of using Canada as a slaughter or dumping ground for their surplus product. There ■can be no doubt either but that the very existence of this particular class of labour, that is, the cheapest labour that can be obtained on earth, is an inducement to the capitalists to invest moneys in enterprises which are not necessarily productive when managed under fair conditions with respect to the operative. In other words, it means this, the more saw mills the more competition, the more competition the more is the price reduced, hence the necessity of reducing wages so that the articles may be produced and sold at a profit. We cannot hope, but we may as well face it, so far as this particular industry is concerned, we cannot hope to meet their competition except by the introduction of Europeans. I may add, of Europeans from the north of Europe—we do not want them from the south of Europe—and of people from the eastern provinces, who, being frugal, hardy, thrifty, industrious people, and whose condition would be improved working, not for Chinese wages, but for a fair wage which would enable them to at any I say we cannot hope to compete with *&5 rate better their condition after coming here ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 285 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 them until we have produced this state of affairs, and we cannot produce this state of affairs until we have adopted a policy of restriction. Mr. Jardine shows that the shingle industry has been carried on without oriental labour, but it is idle to expect that white labourers will come into this country when there is an abundance of oriental labour. In the first place there is no room for them. Second, they would have to compete as to wages with a class who live under conditions that they will not submit to; and, third, when once they get the idea into their heads that certain labour is only performed by a race, whatever their skin, we are accustomed to regard as inferior, ^t is certain that the better class of European labourers will not come to this country. So long as we have cheap labour in the province, all industries will work or level down to it. If the employer can by the use of cheap labour employ his capital he will surely do so. The existence of this class of labour creates a demand again for more, until the limit of profitable production is reached, or the manufacturer or producer can sell no more at a profit. Turning now to the fishing industry. I submit without any hesitation that the evidence shows that there are quite enough orientals in the country for the successful carrying on of that industry. The following figures show the number of cases from the «/ O J o o year 1894 to 1900, inclusive, the number of fishermen from 1896 to 1900, and the total number employed in the industry : Year. Cases. Fishermen. Total Employed. Value of Plant. 1894 494,371 566,395 601,570 1,015,477 484,161 732,437 585,413 $ 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 3,593 4,500 4,435 4,197 4,892 14,277 19,850 20,695 20,037 20,062 2,197,248 2,350,260 2,480,245 2,145,173 1900 2,839,904 Believing in the theory, that once in four years there is what is called a good year, it is very much to be regretted that Mr. Bell-Irving who furnished these very valuable statistics, did not give the amount of the catch in the year 1893. However, there is sufficient material here to draw one conclusion which seems to me to be irresistible. The number of Chinese from 1893 to the present time have increased. The value of the plant from 1896 to 1900 has increased nearly seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and the number of Chinese have increased proportionately with the increase in the number of canneries, yet in 1893, 1896, 1897 and 1899 more fish were put up with fewer canneries, less capital, and fewer Chinese than in 1900. There is an additional fact, and that is, that improved methods and machinery enable one man now to do much more than at any other time. There being then Chinese, whites and Indians sufficient now to carry on the industry, it would seem that the exclusion of the oriental would work no injury. Fisheries on the Labrador coast are supplied with white fishermen. Even this inhospitable clime finds no difficulty in obtaining its supply of white labour. Newfoundlanders are returning to their own country, leaving British Columbia rather than settle here and compete with orientals. If the canning industry is not a profitable one, then where does the money go ? From five hundred thousand to a million cases of fish are produced in the year. Some few whites are employed in the province; supplies are foreign. How, then, is the state benefitted % Upon the supplies, a certain amount of duty is collected by the federal government, certain amount of taxes in the way of licenses are collected from the fish- O «/ ermen - but beyond the expenditure of the money that the white fishermen receive, or the whites in the employ of canners receive, the province of British Columbia receives no benefit whatsoever. In other words, one of our greatest provincial industries, one for which we stand pre-eminent the world over, our salmon fisheries, are gradually being depleted, and the benefit the state, that is the province, itself derives is infinit- 286 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 esimal in character. If, on the other hand, the canneries are profitable, where does the profit go 1 No more is received by the white labourer than would be received if the canneries were unprofitable. He gets no more than the canner will reluctantly give him, and it is only to the extent of the money which he gets and the money which he sjjends, that the province in itself is in the slightest degree benefitted. Canning in the eastern provinces is carried on by whites, and the season in some instances is veiy little longer than it is with us—lobsters and oysters, for example. Canneries as large as ours are run by boys and girls; equally so with the canning of fruit and vegetables. The Chinese have grown up with the development of the canning industry. No effort has ever been made to replace them with our own people; and it is not because they have any exclusive or peculiar skill in the handling or management of the work, but simply because it is easier to go to one boss and obtain a number of labourers than it is to search for them individually. The process amounts to this : First, the white man is crowded out, and then it is said that the oriental is a necessity, and that the industry cannot be conducted without him. This process is now not only going on in the fisheries, but the lumber trade, and will ultimately permeate other classes of industry. LAND. Mr. Cruickshank tells us that the ordinary labourer in Manitoba becomes the settler. Chinese are not necessary to clear the land. Men are offering to come and clear for him as cash payments on lands they are willing to buy. The occupation of these lands would give a constant source of supply for all the labour that canneries and mills would require, and of the very best sort. The price of adjoining land is depreciated if Occupied by Chinese. At courts of revision men ask a reduction on the ground that the Chinese are located on adjoining land ; favour any measure in the direction of exclusion. The capable mill men here are whites who have learned their business in eastern mills, and they have no use for orientals in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I refer to Reeve Schou's evidence, which shows that many regular fishermen become settlers on the small holdings in Burnaby. He has a contract to settle land, and is getting it settled by small holders of forty acres each on Matsqui Prairie, and that is a good farming land. No Chinese labour has been used on the dyke. It has been shown that large areas of our lands are vacant and unproductive. We lack the class that the orientals keep out. The loss by the importation of agricultural products is something enormous—in fact it is one of the marvels, and has been for many years one of the marvels, of our industrial life, and if British Columbia were not one of the wealthiest countries on the face of the earth, it would be bankrupt over and over again by the lack of retaining the value of that which we produce. If our fisheries are profitable, the profits go abroad. If they are not profitable, only to the extent of the labour does it remain here \ the same with the lumber \ the same with the mines • the same with any other of our natural products ; and yet all the time, although our population is increasing, and although we have immense natural resources in the way of cultivable areas of landj we are year by year sending thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the country for the purchase of those products, which we could readily retain ourselves. If we had only invited that class of immigrant to our shores who would have settled on the land, whose sons and daughters would have supplied the demand for all classes of labour for which there is here so great a demand. MINING. In this industry, possibly, as far at least so rock mining is concerned, the presence of the oriental has not been so injuriously felt. There would appear to be, so far as the evidence before the Commission is concerned, no acute phase of the question in any of the mining districts that have been visited. But we may well ask ourselves why this is. The reason is not far to seek. ' In the first place, owing to his own peculiar superstitions, the Chinese is not a miner. That is, when he first comes to British Columbia, mining is a thing absolutely unknown to him. He never saw or heard of a mine in his ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 287 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 life. No Chinaman in his own country disturbs the soil for the purpose of profit, save for agricultural purposes, and it is for this reason that his attention has rather been directed to some of the other subjects and industries already touched upon, notably the lighter ones, which are within his strength and capacity, and require steady perseverance rather than particular skill, but there is nothing to prevent just the same acute conditions prevailing in rock mining as prevails in the other industries, if once the oriental becomes familiar with the work. Three causes operate to prevent this : First, the fact that the Chinaman is not a miner as already mentioned j second, the determined effort of the white miner himself to keep him out, and, thirdly, the fact that the employer, knowing the Chinaman's inability to mine, is reluctant to employ him until he has acquired the necessary knowledge and experience, and that he never can acquire so long as the white miner refrains from teaching him. But that he may become a possible competitor is thoroughly exemplified by the fact shown that he has been extensively used in coal mining and also in gravel mining. Curiously enough, it is said, that «/ O O O */0'/ in this latter branch of business he has produced wealth—and I refer particularly to the evidence of Major Dupont—that he has produced wealth that would otherwise have remained untouched. I say, without hesitation, far better for that wealth to have remained untouched, until in the course of time it had been, or could have been, made available for the white miner, as undoubtedly it would be, when the cost of transport and the decreased prices of provisions would enable him to work diggings of that class. Examine the question for a moment. It is said that he has added something to the wealth of the country. What is it he has done ? He never paid a license if he could help it. He never made a record if he could avoid it. He never paid a tax, if he could escape it, of any kind. He has made some small purchases, of manufactured articles that his own people don't produce. To that extent, and to that extent alone, has he benefitted the state. For the rest, his food is Chinese ; it is hauled to the mines by Chinese teamsters ; there consumed by a Chinese miner, who takes something out of the earth which he never can replace, and the larger part' of which he, without doubt, immediately remits to his own country; and then, it is said, that this man has added something to the wealth of the province of British Columbia. I submit, on the contrary, that he has extracted many millions from the province that can never be replaced or restored, and that the state has received little or nothing in return. DOMESTIC SERVICE. One cannot shirk the difficulty involved in the question of where is the supply of domestic service to come from. On the Anerican continent this always has been a vexed question. It always has been a matter of great difficulty to fill the demand for domestic service, and that it has practically driven many families out of housekeeping, might just as well be conceded first as last. Probably, as years go by, domestic service will again come, into favour, and I venture this as a reason. In former times all classes of female labour, the domestic servant was the most illy paid. The consequence of this was that except among the better class of servants, because grades there are and always have been amongst all orders of humanity and always will be, with the exception of among the higher class of service, domestic service was very greatly looked down upon, and even the better paid and higher class servants were not regarded as being the equals of those who gained their livelihood in some other manner. Gradually better conditions are prevailing. To-day a domestic servant receives nearly as much per month as she formerly received per annum. As a rule,, she is an educated girl, she is better treated; her relationship with her employer is of a far better character than formerly, and I have no doubt the ultimate result will be that in the future, domestic service will again be sought for by intelligent young girls as a proper and honourable means of earning a livelihood. The remedy lies partly in the hands of the employer. The time has gone by—the pity is that it ever existed—when the comfort and convenience of the servant could be entirely overlooked, but inasmuch as it is a class of employment that will never stand a very high rate of wages, the source of supply must be from a class of females whose circumstances in life, from a financial standpoint, press upon them the necessity SKBS3S8X3EED! 288 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION »?V- 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 of earning their daily bread. That class will be best recruited from the children of white labourers who should gradually take the place of the oriental if the policy of restriction be carried out. It is important to observe that the policy of non-employment of orientals in the boundary country has largely operated in their partial exclusion, or at least, to the great diminution in their numbers. If a like policy had been adopted elsewhere, then there can be no doubt that whites would have come in to fill the ready demand for labour. As an illustration of this, one may refer to Tacoma and to Mr. Houston's evidence. At Spokane and Seattle, and with some feeling of regret may I say that the means adopted in the town of Phoenix, in British Columbia itself is an object lesson to all who care to read the signs of the times. Depression in commercial matters, depression in all classes of labour, following as a matter of course, produced in 1886, bloodshed and riot, resulting in the exclusion of the Chinese in Seattle. From that time on, this city has gradually grown from a. population of 6,000 or 7,000 to a population of 90,000. Now, I do not say that this, is owing entirely to the exclusion of Chinese, but I do say that the startling fact remains that in all that immense population there are only some 300 of them, and that in the neighbouring state of Washington, the people there have managed to build up that immense city in the same time as this city of Vancouver, of which we are naturally so proud. The population of Seattle has increased from 6,000 to 90,000, and the city has- been built exclusively by white labour. g-|| The Exclusion Act has worked well in the United States. Non-employment has been effective in the boundary country. United action kept them out of the building trades and the mines. Is it not time for a policy of exclusion producing a gradual change in the labour employed in other industries'? The continued employment of orientals is having its effect upon the younger generation. Work that boys would do and girls, too, they find the places occupied by Chinese. They have been taught both by education and instinct to look upon the Chinamen as an inferior. The consequence is that they will not engage into competition with him. The schools are full; and, sad be it to say so, so are the streets at night. It has been said on behalf of the orientals by their counsel that the labour unions are responsible for the agitation, and what is taking place is but the outcry of the labourer. Sirs, if that be so, then I say let us thank the labour unions for it—let us thank the labourer for his outcry, because, while at present it is the labourer alone who is pinched, the time is not far distant when other classes of the community will be feeling the stress of oriental competition in their respective fields, and then the outcry will not be confined to the labour union or the labourer. We-are further told that our good relations with the eastern empires, particularly Japan, wijl be imperilled by restricting the entry of their subjects into our land. Sir, when the statesmen of any part of our country appeal to the patriotism of the people to suffer and endure for the good of the country at large, and that appeal is limited largely to a particular class of the community, being that portion of the community who earn their daily bread in probably a precarious manner, it is putting their patriotism and loyalty to a very severe strain when they alone are asked to bear the burden, and to waive their rights in favour of an alien race, and an alien race who by their very presence degrade the position that the sufferers occupy. The question seems partly to be, if a policy of exclusion were adopted, would there be a sufficiency of white labour come into this country to save such industries as are to a large extent at present practically dependent on Chinese labour ? It is not exclusively a labour question. The labourer, it is true, and his employer are immediately affected. The real trouble, however, is far deeper and depends not upon the industrial or economic. aspect of the presence of the Chinese, but upon its political aspect. What will be the result in' the future of the gradual encroachment of orientals upon certain avocations to the exclusion of whites 1 Ultimately there would be three classes in the community, namely: the master class, the servant class and a class of persons engaged in supplying the daily wants and luxuries of both, and this latter class will, if the servant class be alien, likewise be largely alien. Certain classes of labour in British Columbia are already being regarded as purely Chinese, hence degrading and beneath a ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 289 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 white man. This, in itself, tends to the degradation of labour. When, as a question of principle, no work ever degrades any one. Looking at the question from its industrial aspects. While the object of the commission is to inquire exclusively into oriental immigration, I hope I may be pardoned for saying that much that one may say on this subject applies equally to some of the inferior or lower orders of the Latin races. That cheap labour is not an absolute necessity for the production of any particular article of manufacture is shown by the startling fact, that it is not the cheap labour countries that are the manufacturing countries. The cheap labour countries of Europe are Italy, Austria and Spain, the agricultural parts of Germany, Sweden and Norway. The great manufacturing countries of the world are Great Britain, the United States, and those parts of Germany not included in my former remark ; and the curious fact remains that that country which is gradually forging J «/ o «/ o O ahead, so far as industrial skill is concerned, and to some extent crowding out the manufactures of other nations, is the country in which labour is most highly remunerated, namely, the United States of America. It is the large American manufacturer, who, employing white labour exclusively, is now competing with the United Kingdom, with Germany, and all other European nations, and by superiority of production alone, driving the European out of the market. A striking illustration of this important fact is the recent supply of bridge material and locomotive engines to the Imperial Government. Recently, the government was attacked in the House of Commons for purchasing American locomotives for use on the Indian railways. Lord Hamilton, Secretary of State for India, having been absent from the House at the time, considered the matter of sufficient importance to reply to the attack by a letter to the Times, and in that letter he made one statement I wish to quote. Said his Lordship: ' You seem to think that orders have gone abroad because those who gave them did, not understand their business• I wish it were so. The competition we have to face is founded on something much more formidable and substantial. Mechanical research, the consolidation of capital, thorough technical education and improved industrial organization have made in recent years a greater advance in America than here. It is the product of this combination and not the assumed stupidity of the Indian officials that the British engineer has to fear.' I may add that it was f ro"m a high labour country to a cheap labour country that those engines were sent. Mr. Cassidy says there has never been enough labour in a * fluid condition.' A I fluid condition' meaning that any employer can, at any time, with little difficulty find all the labour he may need, for as long or short a time as the exigencies of the particular matter in hand may require. My friend desires to see repeated in British Columbia the scene enacted every day on the opening of $ie gates of any of the London dock yards. There is labour ttfere in a ■ fluid condition.' Better, far better, that the employer should go short of ' fluid' labour than that the misery and starvation of a London dock yard should be repeated in British Columbia. My friend, Mr. Taylor, says that we are asking for the ordinary rule prevailing in the British Empire to be abrogated. No, sirs, on the contrary, we are asking that the rule prevailing in the great self-governing colonies of Australia and Natal, and the neighbouring republic, may be introduced here. It is further said that these people do not come here as the result of servile contracts. I cannot prove that they do, but I will mention one significant fact: In fifteen years since the passing of the head tax, there has been paid for the entrance into this country by the Chinese alone $818,033 gold dollars. Approximately in their own money, the silver dollar, nearly $1,636,066. That is to say, these labourers coming here to work for the low wages raised the enormous sum of $1,636,066 for the privilege of entering the country, and paid at the same time their own fares and expenses to come here. Is such a proposition credible ? Having now in the time at my disposal touched upon the industrial aspect of the question, I wish to refer to its national or political aspect, and in this connection I refer particularly to the evidence of the Rev. Canon Beanlands. I select his evidence because it is that of a highly cultivated, scholarly clergyman, who courageously put for- 54—19 290 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 ward what at first sight seemed to me a most attractive theory, namely, that ■ There is a, time in the history of every country when the existence of a servile class helps the development, and that the existence of this class emphasized the position of the workman who was a member of the dominant race. That the Chinese who came here did not compare with the whites or enter into competition with them.' Now, as this theory tended to the advancement of the white labourer, it seemed particularly attractive. The question is : Is it sound ? Is there any single instance of a nation in modern times prospering with a servile class ? Do we need to go further than the civil war in the United States | Certainly, the result of an attempt to maintain a, servile class in the southern states has not been a success. Conditions in British Columbia seem to point to this : That there are some artizans and mechanics, and a few of the better sort of labourers receiving the best of wages. But the substratum of the industrial situation is oriental. Now, of this, Canon Bean- lands approves. I venture to think that he loses sight of the important fact, that the oriental substratum will not remain quiescent. As a matter of fact, it is gradually forcing the way upward and disturbing and displacing the very men whom the Canon seeks to benefit. So far from elevating the artizan and mechanic, I cannot but think it will have the opposite effect. The knowledge that he is of a higher type of humanity will be little compensation to him when the servile substratum has forced its way upward, and working for low wages at the higher branches of labour driven the white ^artizan out. There are large areas of London in which the Poles and Slavs, a servile cheap labour class, have driven the English out—the same process there as here, the English worker displaced by the foreigners who will live under conditions intolerable to the Englishman. Does he think you feel proud that he is free % That he belongs to the dominant race 1 ' Free. Yes, to do what ? Starve. It would be a curious inquiry to .-ascertain what becomes of the displaced Englishman. What becomes of the British -worker ? To every deep there is a lower depth, and honest poverty having been displaced by the Pole and Slav, is it reasonable to suppose it has been exalted ? Is it not -more probable that they have become part of the submerged tenth, and reached that -depth of poverty and degradation that gives no hope of raising? I refer to the evidence of the following witnesses,. who' see the evil of oriental S immigration. I select them as employers of labour, citizens of high standing in the v community, and men whose opinions are entitled to careful consideration : Thomas R. Smith.—Contended that canneries look upon Chinese as an •generally. Policy would be to exclude. .rj..A. Sayward.—Chinese crowd out whites and Indians. Favours restriction. VWm. Munsie.—Could afford to pay a higher wage. Do not fear any trade turbances. Willing to see orientals excluded. E. J. Palmer.—No inconvenience will be experienced from restriction of Chinese. JNeither Chinese nor Japanese are a benefit to the country. iThos. Pierey.—Thoroughly favours exclusion and protection to white labour. 1 Henry Croft.—Averse to oriental immigration. Advocates restriction. ? Jos., Hunter.—Prefer to see white labour predominate throughout the country. ^Country better without orientals. It would be a menace to the country if people like evil dis- of the people. I believe conditions would not be ^Chinese were .found encroaching on the general avocations ^this would be a better country without them. Industrial .affected by restriction or prohibition. D. Spencer, Yictoria. A. Haslam, Nanaimo. R. H. Alexander, Yancouver.—If it were not for the necessities of our particular rindustry would mueh prefer that the immigration should be limited to whites. To build up the country, population must be homogeneous. Does nofOapprove of them as citizens. Prefers to see them replaced by whites. Wages would not increase if ex- delusion put in force at once. Prefer country should by occupied by our own people. , J. .G. Woods, Yancouver. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 291 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 J. W. Hackett, Yancouver.—Had to employ orientals to compete with others using them. Bernard Macdonald, Rossland. E. Kirby, Rossland.—It is not for the best interests of the community to have an nnlimited supply of oriental labour come into the country. Plan adopted in the United States has worked out well. H. Croasdale, Nelson. F. Burnett—Sentimentally, yes ; business, no. Major Dupont even does not want them. In the interest of the country it would b>e preferable to have whites. Suggests license to come for five years. There is, therefore, no possible reason for delaying relief. The time will never arrive, according to the employer, when the conditions will be favourable to the exclusion of the oriental. In other words, so long as you have got the desire of profit as the only cause operating between the master and servant, just so long will the master insist, and no one can blame him for insisting, on obtaining as large a profit as he possibly can get. But this Commission is not sitting in the interest of either master or servant. It is sitting to inquire into the advisability of restricting »the immigration of orientals. According to the evidence that has been given, repeatedly have witnesses stated that "they believe no dislocation or disturbance of trade relations would take place, by some immediate measure of relief. If so, why then should it be delayed % Now is the time before the evil becomes greater than it is now. And now, in conclusion, permit me to make sOme few general observations. , There would seem to be three great centres of the earth's surface which seem to be specially adapted for the habitation and enjoyment of the human race—the white, the ,mongol and the negro—each in its own centre, namely, the white in Europe and the northern part of the American continent and possibly some portion of the southern part of the American continent, the mongol in the north-eastern part of Asia, and the negro in equatorial Africa, and apparently in some parts of the United States. Each in its own centre appears to reign supreme, and it would seem as if neither of the others in that particular locality could oust the one for which it seems to have been specially designed. On the borders of each of these three great areas of the earth they come into -conflict, either industrially or inilitary, and it is just such a conflict as that that we have here. The question then arises, which is it that in the contest for the industrial and political occupation of the north-west part of the North American continent shall prevail 1 The white man or the oriental ? Now, we have all the legal and political advantages ; we are in possession and we would be worse than fools, we would be blundering traitors if we ever allowed ourselves to be ousted from the advantageous position we possess. We have got to meet this great people on their own ground, not industrially but politically, and we have got to see that they are excluded from our borders, so that our own people may be allowed to come in and possess and occupy the land. Immigration into the north-west part of Canada is at present really excluded by the oriental. The white labourer or the intending immigrant will not face eastern competition, and he is wise in his generation. He does not go to China, and he does not go to Japan, but seeks a newer and wider field. In point of fact, the western man—the man of the British Islands, the great colonizing nation of the world—never went east but for the purpose of conquest. For the purpose of occupation and colonization, he leaves the east and goes toward the west. Merciless he may be in his progress. He may trample other races under his foot; he may either absorb or extinguish them, and if they are people of his own type he will absorb them. If they are people of an inferior type they will be extinguished. When, however, he comes in or near the boundaries of either of the other iwo great races of mankind, jthen he meets them within their own territory, with a power equal to his. He meets a race incapable of extinguishment, and before which •even he, with all his characteristic vigour and endurance, is bound to recoil. Let us then see that in this our land, this conflict may be put an end to, and our industrial classes not brought into conflict with the races already referred to. We cannot allow o «/ one of the fairest portions of the earth's surface to be wrested from Canadians. The 54—191 292 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 question is then not wholly economic and industrial, but, as I already pointed out, largely a national question. We have commercial protection, and to that extent benefit both the Canadian labourer and Canadian capitalist. We have laws preventing introduction of alien labour. Why should we not go one step further and prevent the voluntary immigration into our country of a class of labourers, not only aliens in race, but aliens in civilization. Such observations as these are true not only of orientals, but they are equally true of Italians and other Latin races. I do not say that the evidence points wholly in this direction, but I venture to give it as my own impression that the Latin and Slavonic races of Europe are not wanted here. With the Teuton and the Scandinavian we assimilate. They are of our own type. It is from them we sprung. They become in every sense of the word good citizens and loyal Canadians. We can make room in this country for some thousands of people who would be greatly benefitted by the change. We have a clime unequalled in salubrity and at the same time variety—the home of a strong, sturdy and independent people. Are we then to allow this land to become the home of a servile, alien race, their superintendents paying tribute to non-resident capitalists and a few tradesmen who supply the wants of both. We have grand mountains containing every variety of minerals in abundance, gold, silver, copper, lead, iron and coai. We have beautiful valleys capable of producing all the necessaries of life and some of the luxuries for the toiling thousands in our own and other fields of labour. We have rivers teeming with food, fish in endless variety, our seacoasts likewise are unexampled in their productiveness. We have timber of enormous size, and almost inexhaustible in quantity. I ask you then to make such report as will justify the government in imposing such a head tax as to amount to exclusion. I ask you to so report -as to preserve one of the fairest portions of the earth's surface for the Canadian people, and not allow it to be wrested from them, not by conquest, but simply by engulfing us in the rising tide of oriental immigration. ARGUMENT BY MR. A. D. TAYLOR ON BEHALF OF CHINESE. Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen,—Although I have not had the advantage of attending on behalf of my clients, the Chinese Board of Trade, during tbe whole of this inquiry, as my learned friend, Mr. Wilson, has; I have obtained full notes of the evidence, and have also had the benefit of the notes made by my colleague, Mr. Brad- burn, who attended the sittings of your Commission in Yictoria. In my argument therefore on behalf of the Chinese I refer to all the evidence that has been adduced before you since you opened the sittings of this Commission in Yictoria some two months ago. In accordance with the suggestion of my friend, Mr. Wilson, I will only put before you the main features of the question as they present themselves to me, referring in a general way to the evidence bearing out my view of the matter as representing the Chinese. The first point which I wish to raise is that, while your Commission is a Commission of inquiry to obtain evidence generally referring to the question at issue, and not a court trying a case between two parties, plaintiff and defendant, in the ordinary way, my clients are still in a great measure in the position of defendants. Your Commission, as the Order in Council appointing it shows, was the result in a great measure of an outcry against the Chinese and Japanese, and especially the result of two petitions to the Dominion government referred to in the Order in Council. In these petitions serious charges are made against the Chinese. They are therefore to a great extent in the position of defendants, and while this position of defence is in one way a disadvantage, I claim on behalf of my clients any advantage of the position, and one of the advantages that a defendant has in an ordinary case is that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff and especially is this the case when charges are made, for then it is essential for the party making the charges to support them and not for the accused to prove his ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 293 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 innocence. In other words, I claim that it is not for the Chinese to come forward and clear themselves from the imputations made against them, but rather for the persons who feel themselves aggrieved by the presence of the Chinese in the country to come forward and show that the presence of the Chinese in the province works the injury that these people say it does. Without suggesting that you are strictly bound by this rule, I think that I may fairly urge on behalf of the Chinese that they are entitled to some benefit from it, and "that in this province and in this Dominion, forming part of the British Empire, which has always opened its doors in the widest way to all comers from all parts of the world, the presumption is that the Chinese are entitled to come in like all other men, and that those who want to set up a barrier against their coming in must show some good reason for so doing. Certain restrictions already exist enacted at the instance of those who, as -at present, cry out that the Chinese are, to use one of their milder terms, \ a detriment to the country.' Surely, these people who now want to impose further restrictions, if not total exclusion, should show their reasons and support these reasons by facts. I claim therefore on behalf of the Chinese some benefit from this rule and I urge that the evidence brought before the Commission by those opposed to the Chinese, falls far short of bearing out the statements made by those opposed to the Chinese and their presence in the country. At the outset of this inquiry you«gave a series of questions covering the points on which you wanted evidence and before discussing the more general points involved in the inquiry I will briefly refer to these questions and the evidence bearing on each as regards the Chinese. 1. The number of Chinese in the Province. I think we may take it that twelve thousand is about the number. Yip On, the secretary of the Chinese Board of Trade in Yancouver, gives that figure and W. A. Cum Yow also examined in Yancouver gives the same number. We may say therefore that this is approximately the Chinese population of the province. I would mention here, however, that this population, notwithstanding the considerable numbers that have immigrated in recent years, is not increasing in proportion to the general increase in the population of the province. The evidence rather is that it is actually decreasing. The reason for this I will refer to later. «/ O 2. The Immigration since 1884. The statistics which have been furnished by the officials show the'figures and it is unnecessary for me to go into them except to qualify them by the statement I- have just made that notwithstanding the immigration the Chinese population is not increasing. 3. From what class in China are the immigrants drawn and what was their condition in China % Although there has been some conflicting evidence I think it will be o o -admitted that the Chinese population in the province come from the country districts or provinces of which Canton is the natural seaport, and that they are of the small fanner class. There has been an attempt made to show that they are of the coolie class from the cities of China, but the witnesses who attempted to prove this, are not in a position to speak definitely. At their examination in Yancouver, Mr. G. .W. Thomas ■and Mr. Dyer spoke on this point, but Mr. Thomas had not visited China since the year 1875 and had no means of knowledge. Mr. Dyer referred specially to the emigration of the coolie class to the Straits Settlements and could not speak definitely as to those who came to British Columbia although he inferred that they were also of the coolie ■class. 4. The character of the Chinese, for honesty, obedience, diligence, thrift, sobriety and morality and keeping of contracts. On this question, the evidence is in favour of the Chinese. While one or two witnesses do not give them a good character, the mass O O ' of evidence even from those who are pronounced in their feelings against the desirability of Chinese as citizens, is that the Chinese are honest, obedient, diligent to a degree, thrifty to an extent which some witnesses claim to be a crime, sober, and on the whole, -as moral as similar classes among the whites. As to their keeping of contracts, the -evidence is all to the effect that they are beyond reproach. When a man like the Honourable Mr. Reid who has had thirty-eight years' experience in the country speaks as he does of the way in which the Chinese carry out the terms of a contract, even if it 294 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 be disastrous to themselves j when witnesses like Mr. Smith, of Robert Ward & Co.,. Ltd., Yictoria and Mr. Frank Burnett, of Yancouver, both of whom have had large dealings with the Chinese, tell us that they can always be relied upon to keep a contract,, when Mr. W. A. Cum Yow, of Yancouver, who speaks specially of the relations between the Chinese contractors and the Canning Companies states that he does not know of a single instance where a Chinese contractor had failed to carry out his contract in full, it is not necessary to make any further reference to the evidence. But in this connection I would like to remind you of the evidence of Mr. Dyer who was examined in Yancouver on the last day of the sittings here. You will remember that Mr. Dyer is a member of the staff of the province newspaper, and that he certainly was not in favour of the presence of the Chinese in this province. He had ten years' experience in China and Japan, and stated that in Japan, positions of trusts were invariably filled by Chinese- and in the same way in the Straits Settlements and other places in the east, showing the reputation which the Chinese have there for honesty and integrity. 5. The next question is the number of Chinese engaged in the various industries- enumerated in the question as follows :' fisheries. The evidence shows that there are no Chinamen employed as fishermen. The only Chinese that can be said to be employed in the fisheries are those employed in the various canneries. As to the number employed in this way it is difficult to speak precisely, for the employment is not a permanent one, the work beginning about May 1, when what are called the first crew is taken on for the work of preparation and ending with the close of the canning season, about October 1, the greatest number being employed in the months of July and August, when the actual fishing and packing is going on. Mr. Bell Irving estimates the total number thus employed as perhaps 4,000, but many of these are drawn from other occupations for the time being. In the statement of the Chinese population of Yictoria put in by Lee Cheong, president of the Chinese Benevolent Association of Yictoria, at the sittings on April 21, the number of cannerymen proper is given at 886, and in Yancouver the number of cannerymen is given as 551. As to the employment of Chinese in the canneries I shall have occasion to refer more fully again. • % THE MINES. In these there are a pertain number of Chinese employed in the coal mines on the island, but the numbers are smaller than generally supposed, as will be seen from the evidence, and so far as other mines are concerned, there are few or no Chinese employed, except in placer mining Honourable Mr.' Reid. As to this class of mining I would refer to the evidence of the THE LUMBER BUSINESS. Under this head there are very few Chinese to be found. In the statement filed in Yictoria the number of saw-mill hands is 48. In the statement filed in Yancouver the number of saw-mill hands employed is 12, all in the employ of one mill. These figures refer to saw-mill hands proper. In the shingle mills a larger number of Chinese are employed, the number in Yancouver being 110. In these shingle mills the Chinese are employed on contract work for which they have a special aptitude, owing to their great diligence, and the fact that they are always ready to work long hours. This is one of the many sins laid to their charge by the white workman. •/ O J MANUFACTURES. The number of Chinese employed in general manufactures is small. In fact, leaving out those employed in Yictoria and Yancouver in the manufacture of boots and shoes ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 and of clothing, the number engaged in factories is nil. Reference will be made to the? shoemaking industry and the clothing industry under another head. FARMING AND MARKET GAEDENING. There are no Chinese engaged in farming proper, but a large number are engagecT in market gardening. In Yictoria, for example, the number of market gardeners is. given as 200. In Yancouver the number given is 134. It may be taken that in the province generally there are 500 Chinese employed in this industry for which they show remarkable aptitude, having in most instances doubtless learnt the business in their- native country where gardening has been perfected. DOMESTIC SERVANTS. In the city of Yancouver and Yictoria there are about 800, and allowing a fair percentage for the other parts of the province it may be estimated that there are 1,000 to 1,200 Chinese domestic servants. As to their efficiency in this respect, and the* necessity for their employment I will refer at a later stage in the argument. OTHER CALLINGS. Under this head must be classed the merchants and merchants' clerks, who ins Yictoria and Yancouver number 388 and 143 respectively, and in other parts of the- province probably as many more, and a certain number of miscellaneous labourers. 6. The difference in wages paid to the CJhinese and to white men in the same trade- or (jailing. There are few cases in which a direct comparison can be made, that is where> a Chinaman can be found doing the same work as a white man. When this is the- case, the rate of wages paid to the Chinaman is considerably lower. But as stated, there? are a few cases in which this direct comparison can be made. In the canneries the- Chinamen do a class of work which is not done by the whites. In the shingle mills- they work by contract. In domestic service the comparison is with white women. Here- the Chinaman gets rather better wages on the average, and in some cases far higher wages, but as the evidence shows, he is a better servant and does work which a white- servant girl cannot or will not do. In the tailoring trade the wages of white journeymen can be put approximately at $15 a week (see the evidence ta*ken in Yictoria on March 15 and 16) while the wages of the Chinese are from $25 to $35 a month with board (see the evidence of Tim Kee in Yictoria, March 15). In the boot and shoe business the Chinese workmen are paid from $1.10 to $1.25 a day (see evidence in Victoria, on March 20).. White men in the same business are employed in a different class of work and are paid from $2.50 to $3 per day. In the saw mills where Chinamen are employed their wages may be put at an average of $1.25 a day, while the lowest wages to white men in the same employment is $1.50. 7. Has any industry been called into existence by the presence of the Chinese ? I think that on the evidence we may take it that the canning industry, while not actually called into existence by the Chinese, has been built up by the fact of their being here, and their labour available for the peculiar conditions of the cannery business in a way that could not have been done had they not been here, and that they are indispensable in it. It is a significant fact as stated by Mr. BeH Irving, that in every salmon cannery on the Pacific coast from Northern Alaska to the Sacramento, Chinese are largely employed. I shall have occasion to refer to this point again. 8. Is there any industry dependent upon the Chinese labour for its continuance % While some witnesses claim that the canneries could continue without Chinese, the evidence of the owners and managers of the canneries is to the contrary \ for they one and all state that it would be impossible to carry on the industry without the Chinese. In the lumber business the evidence of those qualified to speak is that there 'is an absolute necessity for cheap labour of some class, cheaper than can be got in the white population. It is these two industries the fishing and the lumber, which with 296 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 mining make up the three principal industries in the province. In both of them the competition is with outsiders and the price is fixed not by the local demand in British Columbia, or in Canada, or by conditions prevailing here, but by this outside competition and the necessity for cheap production is hard and fast. 9. How do the Chinese come to the province and under what terms ? I assume that this refers to the statements frequently made that the Chinese are imported in large numbers under contracts which are alleged to be of a servile nature. These state- O O ments are not however borne out by any evidence. No witness has come forward and established this by direct evidence. All they tell us is hearsay. On the other hand we have the positive evidence of E. W. McLean, Mon Kow, Cum Yow and Lee Cheong that such is not the case. It is surely not necessary for me to refer to this evidence in detail, as this is certainly a point on which I am entitled to claim that the burden of proof is on those who make the statement. 10. What proportion bring their wives, or marry here or attend school or churches or become christians ? It is difficult on the evidence to speak precisely, but the proportion that bring their wives or marry here is very small, less than 5 per cent. For this there are reasons. As Mr. Cum Yow puts it, a large proportion would bring their families here were it not for the unfriendly reception given them in recent years which has created an unsettled feeling. As to attending school, the number of children is small, but a number do attend our public schools and there are a certain number of christians among the Chinese population although this number again is small. 11. What is the standard of living of the Chinese as compared with the whites? This is lower than that of the whites, but here again it is difficult to make a comparison for there is not in the province any class of whites that can be directly compared with the Chinese labouring class. The white labourer or workman is as a rule in a superior position, earning considerably higher wages, so that there is no class of white workmen in the same position. The Chinese live within their means, and the wages which they get compel them to be thrifty and frugal. It is hardly fair to urge, as many of the witnesses have done as a wrong in the Chinese, that he is not extravagant and that he lays up something for the rainy day, and in many cases sends money away to support his wife or his parents. Why should it be a crime in a young Chinaman to deny himself and send money home to his family ? If a young immigrant of any other nationality did this he would be praised instead of blamed. 12. What is the moral and physical condition of the Chinamen, their habits of cleanliness and attention to sanitary regulations ? As to their moral condition I have already spokem As to their physical condition, they are not as strong physically as the whites, but this is a matter of race. So far as health is concerned, they compare favourably with other classes of the population except as to consumption to which they appear to be peculiarly susceptible. As to their attention to sanitary regulations, they require education and oversight, but here again there is no white class to compare them with. 13. Do they live in different parts of the city or in aggregations ? The conditions prevailing in Yancouver and Yictoria may be taken as typical. The Chinese live in aggregation, but this is rather a matter of necessity than of choice. In both cities the only class that do not live in Chinatown proper are the laundrymen for the convenience of their business, but as Mr. Cum Yow inhis evidence in Yancouver states, this aggregation is rather forced upon them than chosen by them. 14. What effect has their residence in any place on the price of property in that locality ? Owing to the strong feeling in the minds of many against the Chinese, their neighbourhood has had the effect of depreciating the value of property, but on this point I would refer the Commissioners to the evidence of Major Dupont in his examination in Yictoria on April 3, where he states that the Chinese are-good tenants in every respect. 15. What proportion live in separate houses and have families 1 As shown by the evidence the proportion is small. How many Chinese women are there in the province ? The actual number in Yictoria is 94 women and 82 female children. In Yancouver the number of women is 29 with 13 female children. Outside these cities the numbers would bring up the total to about 300 of them • the majority are the wives of merchants O.V CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 297 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 with a few wives of labour men. The number of women of no occupation js not more than twenty in the entire province. So much for the charge that prostitution prevails to a great extent among them. 17. Are men and women brought under servile contracts? There is no evidence of this. 18. This question relates to the Chinese companies. There is no evidence that they take any part in Chinese immigration, or effect it in any way. 19. Do the Chinese take any interest in our laws and institutions? What proportion build up homes and become permanent citizens or residents ? The Chinese take very little interest in our laws, but this is hardly to be wondered at seeing how they are treated, and they have not got the right to vote. The proportion that build up homes is small but increasing. 20. Do they learn our language, &c, and show signs of assimilating ? The number that learn our language and adopt our customs is small, and the evidence is that the "Chinese will not assimilate. 21 How have workmen been affected by the Chinese ? This is in one sense the main question, for this is the great cry against them, and I will have to discuss this point more fully as one of the general points of my argument. In the meantime I submit that the effect of Chinese competition is not at all what it has been represented to be. 22. How has Chinese immigration affected white immigration ? There is some O O ■evidence of individual cases where white immigrants have been prevented from coming, but this is only in isolated cases, and there is no evidence that the presence of the ■Chinese here has had any general effect in preventing white immigration. 23. What proportion of Chinese return to their own country, and what proportion of their earnings do they take ? A considerable number of Chinese, probably 20 per •cent, return to their own country and take some of their earnings, probably 25 per ■cent. 24. Are the Chinese a menace to health, and, if so, in what way ? If thereds any menace to health the greater number should constitute the greater menace, and we can, therefore, refer to the condition of affairs in Yictoria and Yancouver, and if the presence of the Chinese in these cities is not a menace to health it certainly will not be so in other parts of the province. The evidence of Dr. Fraser, medical health officer of Yictoria, examined on March 13, and James Wilson, sanitary inspector of Yictoria, -examined on March 15, shows the condition in Yictoria. In Yancouver similar ■evidence was given on April 24 by Dr. McLean, the health officer, and Mr. Marrion, Health Inspector. In both cities the principal thing alleged against the Chinese is that they are fond of overcrowding, but it is admitted that by proper supervision this is prevented and the sanitary condition of the Chinese quarter greatly improved. No instance is given of the origin of any contagious disease in the Chinatown of either ■city, and the mortality amongst the Chinese is not greater than amongst the white population. In Yancouver, Dr. McLean tells us that the condition of Chinatown has .greatly improved in recent years and is still improving, and Mr. Marrion, the health inspector, states that there is less difficulty than formerly in enforcing the sanitary bylaws, as the Chinese are becoming gradually educated to the proper standard, while the merchants and better classes among them assist the health officers in every way in their duties. Dr. McLean speaks in a vague way of the presence of the Chinese being a menace to health, but it is significant that in Yancouver, as shown by his report for 1900, out of 183 cases of infectious disease during that year only six occurred in Chinatown, and of the remaining 177 not one could be traced to Chinatown. This is about -3 per 1,000 of the Chinese population of 2,000, while taking the total population of Yancouver to be 30,000, the number of cases in the white population is 6 per 1,000, or twice as many in proportion as in Chinatown. I submit that there is no evidence that the presence of the Chinese is in any way a menace to health. 25. Has trade between China and Canada been affected by Chinese immigration ? There is a considerable import trade done by the Chinese merchants. Merchants in Yictoria imported $107,504 of goods from China in the year 1900. The Yancouver 298 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 merchants iff the same period imported $78,198. There is evidence that some export trade in lumber is attributable to the presence of the Chinese here, but so far as export trade is concerned the presence of the Chinese has had no marked effect. The restriction or prohibition of Chinese immigration would, naturally directly affect the import trade. 26. The effect of unlimited Chinese immigration ? I think that this question is put in rather an unfortunate way. Unlimited immigration of any class, Chinese or white, would have a bad effect, but I think that the Chinese immigration will, even in the absence of any restriction, be limited by the natural law of supply and demand. In- other words, we may leave it to the Chinese not to come in too great numbers. 27. As to the sufficiency of white labour ? I suggest here that there is an insufficiency of white labour. I will refer to this again in my general remarks. 28. The criminal class among the Chinese as compared with the white population % On the evidence given I think that you will come to the conclusion that taking the-- Chinese as a class they are a law-abiding people. They are certainly no worse than their white neighbours. Dr. Fraser, medical officer in Yictoria, examined on March 13, says that the Chinese are law-abiding, no serious crimes are committed by them, their principal offences being against the city health by-laws. Superintendent Hussey of the provincial police, examined in Yictoria on March 25, says that the Chinese are industrious and sober and conduct themselves as well as other classes. Chief Langley of the Yictoria police force, says that comparing the Chinese with the whites as to crime, he says he does not think the Chinese are bad. In Yancouver, Mr. Mcintosh, clerk of the police court, handed in a statement showing the police records for the year 1900. From this it appears that the greater number of cases against the Chinese are for infringement of the city by-laws such as health by-laws and some cases of petty thieving. Mr. Beck, clerk of the crown in Yancouver, showed that one hundred and forty prisoners were committed for trial for indictable offences in Yancouver in the seven years ending October 30, 1900. Of these sixteen were Chinese, only ten of whom, however, were convicted. It is significant that there have been no *o assaults upon women or any cases of that nature. 29. The relative amount of taxes paid compared with their earning power ? The Chinese pay the same poll tax as the white labourer. They pay on property the same rate as the white population. As their wages are lower the poll tax is a heavier tax on them than on the. whites. 30. With whom do the Chinese trade ? To thereby and what proportion of their earnings Chinese trade in a great measure with their own merchants, but these merchants, as will be seen from the statements handed in by Lee Cheong in Yictoria and \by Yip On in Yancouver, buy the greater part of their goods in Canada or import from England. They in fact obtain their supplies from the same source as white merchants in the same lines. As to the proportion of their earnings taken out of the country, there is evidence that a number of Chinese do send away a considerable portion of their earnings, probably 25 per cent., but I would refer to the evidence of the Honourable Mr. Reid where he says that this is not done to anything like the extent that is generally supposed, and Mr. Reid from his thirty-eight years' residence in the country is able to speak with some authority. 31. What proportion speak and read and write English ? A considerable number read and write and there is evidence that they are anxious to learri in order to better their position. Questions 32, 33 and 34 relate to matters of opinion rather than to matters of fact. I would merely remark incidentally as regards question 32 that the whole gist of evidence is that the Japanese are a greater menace to white labour than the Chinese are. The witnesses who state this, give as their reason the fact that the Japanese show greater aptitude in adopting our ways of life and are much more aggressive, having already forced themselves into competition with the white workmen in a way that the Chinese have not done, although the latter have been in the province in considerable numbers for many years, and the Japanese have only been here in any number for a* year or two. charges against the Chinese of what extent does this country benefit do they take out of this country ? The ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 299* SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I have now gone through the different Questions suggested by you and referred to the evidence in answer to these questions as it effects my clients and I submit that it is favourable to the Chinese. So far as facts are concerned it is absolutely so. As to the opinion given by different witnesses, specially in answer to the last three questions it is adverse. As to the capacity of Chinese to assimilate, I have admitted that they will be slow to assimilate, but this I claim is in one sense a good feature and an absolute answer to many of the absurd statements that have been made against them, as for example, that there is danger of their overrunning the country and becoming the dominant race, and statements of that character. So long as they do not assimilate and establish themselves and multiply in the country, there is absolutely no danger of such a contingency. As already mentioned, when it comes to opinions in answer to the questions suggested by you, we find many strongly expressed opinions against them, but so far as the witnesses are concerned, I submit that these come in a great measure from persons who are not in a position to give opinions, and in many instances from persons who show by their evidence a strong prejudice against the Chinese. I would now direct your attention to several more general points on which I wish to speak more in detail. These have all been incidentally mentioned under one or other of the various questions to which I have already referred, but several of them are of such importance that I must devote a short time to each of them and the evidence bearing on them. 1. The outcry against the Chinese comes largely from the working class. This- is clear from the evidence. The witnessed who spoke most decidedly against them were workingmen. When it came to employers of labour, such as Mr. Todd of Yictoria, Mr. Palmer of the Chemainus Mills, Mr. Marpole of the Canadian Pacific Railway, Mr. Bell-Irving, representing the canning industry, and Mr. Alexander, Mr. MacNair and Mr. Spicer representing the lumber industry in Yancouver, the evidence was very different. The working class unfortunately in British Columbia as elsewhere, do hot always see things in the light of their own true interests. They claim in a general way that the Chinese come into direct competition with them, but when we examine the evidence it is remarkable how slight the foundation in fact is for this outcry. Take the lumber industry for example. On this the evidence of Mr. Alexander is clear. He does not give opinions but states facts, facts of which he has absolute knowledge from his experience of nearly 40 years in the country. Judging from the mass of evidence before us, the length of your labours would have been greatly lessened if other witnesses ' O J O •/ had taken a leaf out of Mr. Alexander's book and confined their answers to facts and not given their own opinions which were in many cases absolutely valueless, the witnesses having no qualification whatever to speak. A number of workmen come up and speak of the lumber business. Each speaks from his own individual standpoint, and yet while he talks in a general way of the competition by the Chinese none of them can say that they have been driven out of employment by the Chinese or that they have suffered themselves. Surely if there is-any foundation for the outcry that white labour is driven out by the unfair competition of the Chinese, some workmen could be found who could come forward and speak from his own actual experience. But such is not the case. Witnesses tell us in a vague way that a large number of men had applied to the Hastings Mill, but we have Mr. Alexander, manager of the mill telling us that there is and has been an absolute scarcity of white labour, and that when they do obtain ordinary white labour it cannot be depended upon, as the men employed at it leave their work at the slightest provocation. Surely large employers of labour are in a better position to speak as to the supply of labour and the effect of oriental competition than the individual workman who can only speak from his own experience. 2. The Chinese do not enter into competition with the whites in nearly as many branches as would be supposed from the cry against them. As already pointed out, in the lumber business with the exception of the few Chinese employed in the shingle mills," there are practicallysno Chinese engaged. There are some in the shoe making industry in Yictoria, but the evidence as to this shows that they have not injured the white shoemaker but have supplied the class of cheap labour which is absolutely necessary in order to enable the few manufacturers here to compete with goods brought in from Ontario 300 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 and Quebec, where there is a large supply of even cheaper labour than the Chinese. Even with this the evidence is that the shoe manufacturers in Yictoria have not been able to hold their own against eastern competition and that the industry has been declining. In the manufacture of certain articles of workmen's clothing and overalls the Chinese are engagad in considerable numbers. But in this they do not compete with any class of white workmen in British Columbia. The only competitors in this industry are eastern firms who again have the advantage of even cheaper labour than- the Chinese. There are of course a great many employed in the canneries to which I shall refer later. We next come to the laundries. Here it can scarcely be said that the Chinese enter into competition with white labour, for the evidence shows that in the steam laundries in which alone white labour is employed the white workmen get a far higher rate of wages than the Chinese. Modern machinery is used in the steam laundries and the white workmen do a different class of work. In the Chinese laundries everything is done by hand. But to show you how unfounded is the statement that in the laundry business the Chinese have driven out white labour, we need only refer to the evidence of Mr. McCrimmon in Yictoria and Mr. Stewart in Vancouver. Both these witnesses are proprietors of well equipped steam laundries, and what do they say ? They came to British Columbia and found the laundry business entirely in the hands of Chinese. They established their laundries in their respective towns, and using modern machinery and doing, as they say, better work, have been able to establish a successful business, so successful in fact that each of them has recently largely increased the capacity of their laundries. The business that they have got has been taken away from the Chinese, for the Chinese were alone in the field. The laundry business is thus an instance where well paid white lavour with improved machinery can compete successfully with the hand labour of the Chinese. If any one has cause to complain in the laundry business it is the Chinese, and yet this is one of the cases where we have been told that the Chinese compete most unfairly and by accepting low wages have driven white workmen out of employment. In the tailoring business there are, as already stated, a considerable number of Chinese employed. We may take the evidence of Mr. Williams, examined in Yancouver, as typical. He is strongly opposed to the Chinese, and yet in his evidence what do we find ? He divides the tailoring trade into three classes. First, the manufacturing on a large scale of overalls and the lower grade of workmen's clothing. Second, the o o o ordinary ready made clothing trade, and third, custom tiade. As to the first there are no whites engaged in the business in the province. It is and always has been exclusively in the hands of the Chinese so far as the labour is concerned. The firms (white) that they supply have as their only competitor manufacturing firms in the provinces of Quebec and Ontario, who have at their command a large class of even cheaper labour than the Chinese. It is essentially an industry where the labour must be of the cheapest, and if there were no Chinese to engage in it here, the business could not be profitably carried on. Surely it is better so far as this branch of the industry is concerned that the present state of affairs should continue and that the British Columbia firms who now have this work done by the Chinese should be able to continue doing so and supply a considerable portion of the provincial market rather than that this business should be completely driven from the province. In the second branch of the tailoring industry, the ready-made clothing, Mr. Williams tells us that the Chinese do not compete at all. In the third branch, the custom trade, they do, but Mr. Williams tells us that it is by their union the white tailors and white journeymen tailors have successfully maintained their wages. So far as this custom trade is concerned I would remind you of the argument of my learned friend Mr. Cassidy on behalf of the Japanese. It is not so much a question of costs as the style and finish of the article, and if the Chinese as customs tailors make clothing of a better style and finish than the whites, why should they be debarred from entering into competition with them ? As my fearned friend puts it, a good tailor is rather an artist than a labourer, and it should be a case of the survival of the fittest. Surely the white tailors can compete with the orientals. In market gardening the Chinese have to a great extent monopolized the business, but this is due as much to their natural aptitude and skill as from their cheaper mode of L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 301 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 life. On this point again there is strikingly little evidence of their competition having directly injured any of the white population. The next point is the fishing business. As already mentioned, a lirge number of Chinese are employed in the canneries and the complaint is that the business is practically monopolized by them. The best evidence on this question will be found in Mr. Bell-Irving's examination in Yancouver and incidentally that of Mr. Frank Burnett. Mr. Bell-Irving speaks from actual experience as the manager of a company owning three canneries on the Fraser, two canneries in the North, and a cannery on Puget Sound, and also as having an intimate knowledge of the market for canned fish. He tells us that the presence of Chinese in as large numbers as at present is absolutely indispensable to the carrying on of the canning industry. I have already alluded to the fact stated by him that in every cannery on the Pacific Coast, from Northern Alaska to the Sacramento Yalley, Chinese are employed and in many cases in larger proportion to the total labour than in the canneries on the Fraser. And in answer to a question as to whether it would not be possible to abolish Chinese labour and substitute white which he answered by a decided negative, he instanced the case of Fairhaven, a town of over ten thousand inhabitants. It would be naturally assumed that there would be a number of women and children available in such a community to do the process work usually done by Chinese, and yet in the only cannery in Fairhaven there is a larger number of Chinese employed than in any other cannery on Puget Sound. It is idle for people to come forward who know nothing of the canning business and express their opinion that the industry can be carried on without the Chinese. Mr. Bell-Irving explains the peculiar conditions of the canning business, that it is only carried on in the summer and only for part of that, that the first crews are taken on at the canneries about May 1 and begin the making of tins and general preparation for the season's pack j that further men are taken on in July and August when the fishing is going on and each day's catch is packed. It is then that the greatest number of men are wanted and that it is impossible to find white labourers to do this. That even now there is a scarcity of Chinese labour; that the Chinese have a special aptitude for the process work, and that even if white labour could be obtained it is doubtful if they would be so expert, but that it is an impossibility to find white labour available for so short a season.* That canneries have endeavored to avail themselves of white labour only and have been unsuccessful. But while Mr. Bell-Irving thus expresses himself so strongly as to the absolute necessity of a large number of Chinese for the industry, he also shows what a comparatively small part the Chinese have in the fruits of the industry and how- ridiculous it is to say, as so many do, that the business is practically monopolized by them. The Chinese labour in the canneries is confined to the process work, that is the making of the cans in the early part of the season and the actual process of packing during the fishing season. The foremen, engineers, time-keepers and other labourers of that class is white and these men are hired for a considerable period extending from early in spring until late in the autumn and at* good rate of wages. The Chinese lajoour is provided by the Chinese contractor who makes a contract at the beginning of the season with the canning company to put up the season's pack, the company supplying the material and the white labour already referred to. The Chinese contractor engages his own hands, the majority of whom are Chinese, but a number of Indian men and women are also included and in some canneries the Chinese contractor engages white help as well. The Chinese have developed particular aptitude for this work and, as Mr. Bell- Irving and Mr. Burnett say, it would be impossible to replace them with any other class of labour. It has been suggested that white women might be employed, but the conditions of life at the canneries make this impossible, even if white women were available, which is not the case. Fish must be put up cheaply, for several circumstances militate against the Canadian packers, who have to compete in the English markets with the Alaska and Puget Sound canneries. In Alaska, as Mr. Bell-Irving states, fish cost in the neighbourhood of 1\ cents ; in the Sound by the use of traps the fish in a good season only cost a few cents. On the Fraser on the other hand net fishing is the only method employed and the price varies from 8 cents with a big run to 20 or even 25 cents. m 302 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 We may take it therefore that the lowest cost for the fish for a case of 48 pounds on the Fraser is $1.50, while in Alaska it would be less than 40 cents and on the Sound in a favourable season about the same. The Fraser River Canneries are therefore seriously handicapped and any addition to the cost of production would very seriously cripple the -industry, if not ruin it altogether. The Chinese contractors are able to find in the ^Chinese population, although during the last year or two they have; even had difficulty in doing that, a sufficient number of Chinese with the Indians employed to do the process work at reasonable wages. The Chinese live in the Chinese quarters and are fed at the Chinese messhouse • the Indians live in the Indian cabins and provide their own food. There is no accommodation at any of the canneries suitable for white women and it would be impossible to provide quarters suitable for them, as these would only be occupied for a few months in each year. In other words, it is absolutely necessary for the canneries to have a class of labour like the Chinese who are willing to accept the conditions at the canneries, and to accept a fair rate of wages for the short fishing season. There is no one to replace them. Though the Chinese are thus indispensable to the canning industry, they do not monopolize the benefits of it as is generally supposed. I have already mentioned that Mr. Bell-Irving is the manager of a company operating six canneries and is therefore specially qualified to speak. He gave in his evidence a statement of the total wage expenditure at one of these canneries for the season of 1900 at $50,872, of which he assigned $33,500 to white labour against $17,000, in round figures, for Chinese labour, and out of this the Chinese paid their Indian hands. The Indians being about 60 per cent of the number of the Chinese, or putting it at 50 per cent, one-third of the above amount would represent Indian labour, so that in this cannery less that $12,000 represents the amount actually paid for Chinese labour. It is hardly necessary to remind you of the importance of the canning industry to the province and how it affects other business. Mr. Bell-Irving and Mr. Burnett specially explain this. Such being the case, it would, as these witnesses put it, be a most serious thing to cripple if not to ruin this important industry by interfering in any way with the supply of Chinese labour, which, as stated in the evidence, is already inadequate. THE LUMBER BUSINESS. Here again the cry is that Chinese and Japanese have driven white labour from the field. As already pointed out, no instances have been proved where a white labourer has been dismissed and replaced by oriental labour. I have already had occasion to refer to the fact that in the lumber business proper, few or no Chinamen are employed. In the shingle business they are employed to a considerable extent on contract work, and the reasons for this I have given. Mr. Alexander of the British Columbia Timber Mills and Trading Company, Yancouver, the proprietors of the Hastings Mill, Yancouver, B.C., the Royal City Planing Mills, Yancouver, and the Royal City Planing Mills, New Westminster, who was examined in Yancouver, speaks with an experience of nearly forty years in the province and a knowledge of the lumber trade which is probably unequalled. He explains that from the outset of the industry in the province they have had a supply of cheap labour. At first it was Indian labour, but this he explains was always unsteady and not to be depended upon. At the Hastings mill, when the Indian Reserve adjoined the mill property and they were able to keep a direct oversight on the men, it was easier to insure their regular attendance at work, although even then it was difficult owing, to the peculiar disposition of the Indians, ready to work only -when it suited them and absent from work to shoot or fish or to do anything else or nothing as the humour seizes them. %When the reserve was removed some, distance from the mill, Indian labour became out of the question and they were replaced by Chinese. Some years ago in deference, as Mr. Alexander puts it, to public opinion they dismissed the Chinese and replaced them by the Japanese, still cheap labour. Mr. Alexander tells us that all through they have endeavoured to procure white labour, but that it is impossible. Not only is it impossible to get white labour at the same rates, but even at the higher rate which the mills are prepared to pay whites, white labour of that class is unsteady and unsatisfactory and cannot be depended upon as the Chinese and Japanese can. Mr. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 303 "SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Alexander states that the Hastings mill, as well as most of the other mills in the province, are export mills, the home consumption being comparatively small, and that in this export trade the mills have to compete with the world, Puget Sound and the Baltic being their strongest competitors, and he adds that a certain percentage of cheap labour is absolutely necessary to the maintenance of the industry. He tells us that out of every five workmen in the Hastings mill three are whites and two Japanese, and that if he cannot have the two Japanese at cheap rates the company must close their mill and the three whites be thrown out of employments In other words, the continuance of the industry is dependent on a continuance of cheap labour, and this cheap labour enables the mills to run and to pay better wages to the whites. Mr. Heaps, Mr. Hackett, Mr. :Spicer and Mr. McNair all agree that cheap labour is indispensable in the lumber industry. Mr. Spicer says that if an exclusion act was passed it would result in the closing of the mills. Mr. MacNair has exceptional knowledge, as he operates mills both in Canada and the States. He goes fully into the question of outside competition, and shows how absolutely the price of lumber exported is controlled by this competition, and how fatal it would be to the industry if the cheap labour which they now have in the Chinese and Japanese is interfered with or taken away. I omitted in .referring to Mr. Alexander's evidence one important statement, namely, where he said that if the company had to replace the Japanese which they have at present working in the Hastings mill with white labour, the increased daily expenditure would represent -such an addition to the other cost of production, that they would have to close the mill as they would be running at a loss. Mr. Alexander also tells us that his company made a special effort to obtain white4abour, and at one time actually paid the expenses of a large number of workmen from the east, but they had only remained with the company a short time and left to take more lucrative employment elsewhere. The fact is that there is ample scope in this province for white labourers in better and better paid work than the ordinary handling of lumber and work of that class about saw mills, and that the presence of the orientals to do this'cheaper work so far Irom being a detriment to the white workmen is a benefit. RAILWAY WORK. The only witness who speaks on this is Mr. Marpole, superintendent of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. His evidence is most instructive. It appears that the number of orientals employed in this division of the railway is comparatively small, as the company endeavour to use white labour as much as possible, and that they had not employed any Japanese until the summer of 1899, when they were obliged to do so owing to the scarcity of white labour. He said that the company could :not afford to pay higher wages than they are doing, and referred to the fact that the Northern Pacific Railway Company employs two thousand five hundred Japanese on its Pacific division and the Great Northern Company two thousand, and that the latter were advertising for five thousand more Japanese. Under the present conditions the Tail way was bound to depend to a certain extent on Chinese-and Japanese. DOMESTIC SERVANTS. I have already referred to the number of Chinese domestic servants in the province and I submit that from the evidence it is clear that the presence of the Chinese .at any rate in as great numbers as at present, if not to a larger extent, is absolutely indispensable in order to maintain the supply of servants. One or two witnesses have told us that the Chinese are not good servants and many suggestions have been made as to the possibility of obtaining a supply of female servants from other parts of the Dominion or from England or elsewhere, but these are only suggestions and other witnesses show how impossible such plans are. Mr. Schou, examined at Yancouver, and who is strongly opposed to the presence of the orientals in the country, tells nis that even in England the domestic servant question has become one of great difficulty. Owing to the employment of women in factories and other spheres of labour the supply 3C4 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 of domestic servants there is limited and a great deal of difficulty is experienced in obtaining servants. Mr. Marpole speaks of the difficulties in Toronto in obtaining; female servants, and states that a number of people in Toronto have requested him to send them Chinese as servants. Although one or two witnesses tried to decry them, the mass of evidence is to the effect that as domestic servants the Chinese are unequalled. All the witnesses who spoke from their personal experience from thfe. employment of the Chinese give them a good character in this respect. You will remember the strong evidence that was given by several witnesses in Yictoria and Yancouver. I would refer you to the evidence of Mr. Marpole of the Canadian Pacific Railway, Mr. Buntzen of the British Columbia Electric Lights and Power Company and Mr. Rogers of the British Columbia Sugar Refiners and others. One and all of them tell us that the Chinese are indispensable as domestic servants and that already the supply is too- limited. The province requires a supply of Chinese servants at least as great in proportion to the whole population as at present, and any greater restriction on Chinese immigration than what now exists would prevent this. A good supply of qualified domestic servants is of more importance to the well-being of the community than some of the witnesses who have been examined are inclined to admit. In conclusion, I repeat that the evidence of the various witnesses examined before you, grouping them under the head of the questions submitted by you, is favourable to the Chinese and that from the evidence of those best qualified to speak, the presence of the Chinese in the country in at least as large numbers as at present in proportion to the white population, is absolutely indispensable to the continuance of the fishing and the lumber industry, and equally so in order to provide a supply of domestic servants to carry on what Mr. Rogers well calls the industry of living. The fishing industry and the lumber industry are with the mines the three most important industries of the province, and I submit that it would be a most unfortunate thing to cripple these two industries in any way. The evidence shows that unless recruited by further immigration the present number of Chinese in the province will gradually decrease and the supply of Chinese labour already inadequate for the canning industry and domestic service will be too small. Exclusion would'of course prevent any further immigration, and an increased poll tax as suggested would practically have the same effect, for the evidence is that an increased poll tax would mean exclusion, and here I would remind you of a point I have already referred to, that the Chinese population of the province is certainly not increasing in proportion to the white population, and that it is rather absolutely decreasing- notwithstanding the large number that have come into the province in recent years- The explanation of this fact is that a large proportion of the Chinese who pay the poll tax for the Dominion of Canada ultimately find their way to the United States. In other words, we are getting the revenue and the Americans are getting the Chinamen. Exclusion or further restriction means that the Chinese in the country will rapidly decrease, and, with the present number, none too great for the country's needs for the industries to which I have referred, exclusion or restriction means ruin to them. Has any good reason been shown for excluding or restricting the further immigra-, tion of Chinese, and have the people who cry so loud against them proved the serious charges that they have made? That there has been a loud outcry against the Chinese I admit, but as one of the witnesses in Yictoria put it, a few people can make a loud cry if they cry loud enough. I submit that the cry is the cry of a comparatively few, and from those who unfortunately do not know what is best in their own interests. It is significant in looking through the evidence to compare the standing and position of those who speak in favour of the Chinese with those who speak against them. As I put it in opening, in this province and in this Dominion, part of the Great Empire which has always advocated the policy of the open door and free trade in labour, . which has welcomed to its shores immigrants from all parts of the world, without exception, the presumption is that the Chinese are rightly here like all other people. If they are to be restricted, if they are to be excluded, if the door open to all others is to be shut to them, some special and good reason should surely be shown for so doing. The government has been asked to restrict if not to prohibit Chinese immigration altogether ; the people who ask this have had the fullest opportunity to come before your Commission ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 305 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 and to present their case. This I submit they have wholly failed to do, and not only have they failed, but the evidence of independent witnesses establishes the very contrary of what these people alleged. Their statement was that the presence of the Chinese was a detriment to the country. The evidence is that far from being a detriment to the country, the Chinese are a benefit. So far from injuring the white working man they afford the cheaper class of labour which is required for some of our most important industries, thus providing positions for a larger number of whites in the better paid classes of work. They are indispensable for the maintenance of salmon canning and the lumber business, two of our most important industries, and as domestic servants for the well-being and comfort of home life in the province. EXTRACTS FROM THE REPORT OF THE PHILIPPINE COMMISSION. Exhibit IV. MEMORANDUM ON THE CHINESE IN THE PHILIPPINES. Since very ancient times the Chinese have had commercial relations with the Filipinos, said relations having existed before Spanish dominion in the islands. As the number of the CJhinese was continually increasing, and also as it was necessary for the security of the colony to segregate them from the rest of the population, a large building, or market, with numerous habitations was built for them as a measure of O O' * governmental policy. This market was called the * Market place of San Fernando.' This market place served as a home for the Chinese, so that they could not diffuse their religion among the natives, and it was situated on the other side of the Pasig o o o River under the fire of ' Citadel,' as Fort Santiago was formerly called. They made good profits, and in a few years the market place or \ alcaiceria,' which was theirs exclusively, proved too small to accommodate all who came from China, and another building called the ' Parian' was constructed for a like purpose. \ Parian' is a Mexican word, which means, market place, and the new building, which was made for the Chinese was situated where at present the ruined botanical gardens are, although some historians confound this ' Parian' with the one which existed in Intramuros, at the end of Yictoria street, where the municipal school for girls is at present. The Chinese immigration kept on growing in numbers and became a sort of invasion, and the time came when there were not enough habitations in both the alcaiceria and the parian to accommodate them. In the middle of the seventeenth century there were some 30,000 in the neighborhood of Manilla alone. Although historians affirm that at this time the principal occupation of this great number of Chinese was agriculture, nevertheless it is to be supposed that many of them did not have any visible work or means of acquiring it, and they audaciously revolted against Spanish sovereignty in the islands. Although there were, as has been said, some 30,000 of them, they carried their audacity to such an extreme that they had Manilla in a state of siege for some days, and, although they were repulsed a number of times, they persisted in their project of taking the capital of the Archipelago by assault. After various futile attempts they were convinced that they could not conquer in the Philippines and finally withdrew, raising the siege, and then those who had been besieged pursued them to a point beyond Kainta, slaughtering them without pity until they were in a state of complete and shameful defeat. As a result of this Chinese revolt against the sovereignty of Spain in the Archipelago greater restrictions on their immigration were imposed. In spite of these restrictions the Chinese colony gained in strength what it had lost in extent, because these restrictions gave the Chinese the undeniable right to manage their own commercial affairs and enable them to always corrupt the administrative elements in the Philippines, and this was the natural consequence of the Spanish rules and royal orders referring to the Chinese. 54—20 306 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION \. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 It was necessary to punish the Chinese for their attempt to take Manilla, and for the innumerable acts of treason which they were accused of, and consequently, in the time of Don Simon de Anda (1762-1764), it is calculated that some 8,000 died in the central provinces of Luzon, who were exterminated in those" towns by the order of that Governor General, only those who lived in Manilla and its suburbs remaining alive. As a consequence of this anti-Chinese campaign many of thera who survived this assassination emigrated to their own country, and the number of Chinese established in these islands diminished little by little. Only those remained in the Philippines who were secure in doing their business and making a living freely and with more security than in their native country. This noteworthy diminution continued, until from 1840-1846 there were only 5,000 in all the Philippines, a small number as compared with other times. Lastly, the Chinese have always been the preeminent question with the Governors-^ General, and when Senor Norzagaray gave up his command in the Philippines in 1859 he wrote an extensive paper, in which, among other things, the seven or eight thousand Chinese who were in the archipelago were spoken of. This Governor General, referring to the Chinese, said : " One of the most difficult questions remains to be solved on my giving up of my command—that of the commerce carried on by the Chinese in the provinces. The clamor against these Asiatics is general in the country, because competition with them is not possible; Spaniards, Mestizos, Indians, all give them a free field in retail business when they enter. Their few needs, their patience under every insult and vexation* and sacrifice, and personal labour which they can utilize, except agriculture, the ease with which they adapt themselves to the customs of the natives and to the exchange of produce and to all the needs of the consumer • the insignificance of their personal expenses; the manner of their life \ the close cooperation which they maintain among themselves, all place them in a situation advantageous to them, but not always to commercial progress. The truth is, that they have monopolized retail business ; they make the employment of capital by individuals of other races impossible. It is also true that they do not start any enterprise nor undertaking of importance. They hoard by instinct and hide or take away their capital from the country, which capital in other hands would be a powerful element of progress and advancement, but is it possible and would it be prudent to at once reverse the customs of the country which is now ^accustomed to the services of the Chinese in the retail business referred to ? Are the complaints of thousands of individuals of other races sufficient warrant for the prevention of their invading activity in all industries ? An energetic reaction against the Chinese has existed during the last two years in Java, in Australia and in California. In the voluminous report to which I referred in the beginning, it is set forth by approval and by some royal orders that they be protected. I believe that it would be possible to establish a means of quieting these complaints and at the same time avoiding the consequent setback in business, to wit, to take the prohibitive measures which have been adopted in the countries mentioned. The commercial invasion of the provinces by the Chinese could only be advantageous under certain restrictions. The gathering of the fruits of the country for exportation, which up to the present has been done by Spaniards, natives and mestizos, should continue in their hands, for this tendency to fraud, to adulteration, and to monopoly, which is characteristic of the Chinese, would be prejudicial to their production. The industrial tax is called upon to establish a just balance in trade and protection in favour of the national races in the Philippines,. The industrial tax which the Chinese pay at present is insufficient for the purpose, on account of the insignificant rates which it fixes. One of the greatest difficulties which this question presents is the great amount which has been written upon this subject, and the impossibility of the superior authorities of the best judgment understanding it in all its phases and all the details which should be known." ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 307 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 This is the most interesting part of the paper of Senor Norzagaray, in which he makes it clear that it would be better for Spain to be impoverished by taking energetic and saving measures against these Asiatics than that these Philippines should be ruined by foreign commercial absorption, of which one Spanish colony was the victim. Since the administration of said Senor Norzagaray up to the beginning of the war between the United States of America and Spain, the influence of the CJhinese in the Philippines has been increasing, both in commerce and industry, and in their wealth and the volume of their production. ^O The Chinese engaged in a variety of industries and mercantile pursuits in the Philippines, and in 1830. the administration classified them as follows : (1) wholesale merchants ; (2) retail merchants with dry goods shops; silk merchants, shoemakers, druggists, ink manufacturers, soapmakers, barbers, blacksmiths, carpenters and dealers in notions ; (3) water carriers, boatmen, cooks, and dealers in firewood; (+) workmen and servants of all those comprised in the three preceding classes. Those of the first ■class paid a tax of $10 a month ; those of the second, $4 ;. those of the third, $2, and those of the fourth $1. We shall make a short study of the importance of Chinese commerce in the Philippines, especially in some of the richest provinces. In Isabella and Cagayan, a short time before the governmental tobacco monopoly was abolished, there were very few Chinese, and their action in business was insignifi- cant, and the Spanish Government paid the owners of the tobacco crops punctually. Nevertheless, a time came in which the Spanish administration was behind in nearly all of its payments—principally in the most important ones—and the planters of these provinces were among the many victims of these delays. The Chinese then took advantage of the precarious situation by making usurious loans to those who lacked the means of realizing on their crops, thus securing the business of those fertile provinces, both by means of the capital which they advanced, and in the han >ling and monopoly of tobacco. Their commercial supremacy reached such a point that once they had monopolized tobacco, almost every leaf which came to Manilla from Cagayan and Isabella was their property, and they stored it in warehouses and sold it later to the factories already established in the capital at a good profit. They were not contented with the sale of tobacco in the leaf alone, but they also established factories to manufacture it, thus causing other factories which had been in operation to close up by the ruinous competition which the Chinese raised against them. As they had monopolized tobacco in the leaf, they raised the price of that commodity to a fabulous height, thus insuring the ruin of the other manufacturers, their commercial adversaries. Nevertheless, it must be mentioned that cigars made by Chinese factories soon lost credit in foreign markets through the poor workmanship and the detestable manner in which they mixed the different classes of leaves. The Chinese were not discouraged by this, and although the sales of the products of their factories did not gain them the profits which they expected, they continued acquiring lands in the provinces mentioned, both by loaning on mortgages and by making contracts of sale in advance. In the provinces of Hocos and Pangasinan the Chinese, by their commercial influence, succeeded in paralyzing to a certain extent the progress which was noticeable some years before in the production of said provinces. All the interior trade of Canarines Sur is monopolized by them, and both that province and Hocos Sur seem, for this reason, to be stationary as rega ds the ordinary march of commerce and industry. In Batangas the Chinese have not been able to overcome the natives in this unequal struggle for life, for alth ugh the inhabitants of Batangas were beaten in the trade of the interior they did not lose heart on this account, and devoted themselves with great diligence to the production of coffee and sugar, and to the breeding of beef cattle and swine, and the Chinese were not able to outdo them. 54_20i 308 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 In Albay, also, the Chine e extended their business, especially in hemp, and were the cause, as some merchants assert, of the discredit which that valuable fibre suffered from in the markets of America and Europe by the bad faith with which they separated the different classes for which there was a demand in the foreign markets. Since 1860 the Chinese have been prosperous in Iloilo and the island of Negros, which islands have always been of great commercial and agricultural importance, even before he Chinese came here. In Jolo, Cottabato and Zamboanga the Chinese have also done business both in trading with the natives of said islands and with the Philippine and Spanish troops in garrison there, and in dealing with the Moros in shells, pearls and other valuable products. The town of Taal merits special mention, for the natives there have not allowed the Chinese to establish themselves in that town, in spite of their vigourous persistence. The Chinese were assassinated there and the criminals were never detected, for which reason the Chinese decided not to oppose the determination of the people of Taal, who carry on a comparatively prosperous commercial life without necessity for foreigners to trade in the products. We can now judge how it is that the Chinese were always successful in the commercial competition which they raised in the Philippines. To put it in one word, they were successful because there exists among them a cooperative protection incapable of being destroyed either by law or by any measures which may be taken to counteract it. In fact, they succeed everywhere in obtaining a monopoly of wholesale and retail trade, becoming by the unity of purpose which they possess the proprietors of mechanic arts and trades in the country. They lend each other cooperative aid and all work together for the same end, thus forming a vast commercial society with which it is impossible for other merchants who work separately to compete. Some foreign business houses established in Manilla import dry goods from Europe and turn them over for prompt and certain sale to a small number of Chinese merchants, in whose power to collect the value of the merchandise they have confidence. These merchants divide the articles received among the shops of their countrymen and also send quantities of the goods to their principal agents in the provinces, who in turn distribute them among the different Chinese who have open shops in the towns and provincial capitals. They previously mark the prices on the articles and the shopkeepers are not allowed! to reduce them under any pretext. Under this system the result is that although there may be many Chinese establishments in one town, the same article exists or may be secured in all of them, and the price is uniform in high and low alike and only follows a general rule whether the article is plenty or scarce in the place. When a Chinese immigrant lands in Manilla he comes under the management of a headman, who lends him $30 or more and to whom the future merchant is directly responsible. He then begins to work in the most laborious and humble employment, but in spite of his small compensation he is able, by force of self-denial, to save a quantity sufficient to free him from the power of the headman, to whom he returns the quantity advanced to him. From that time on he works on his own account, protecting and being protected by his countrymen, until he accumulates sufficient capital to return to his country and there enjoy his savings for the rest of his life. The principle of political economy is well known which lays down the rule that in order for a country to obtain advantages from immigration the immigrants should bring in capital, new industries, or superior knowledge to perfect industries already in existence, or at least that said immigrants should apply their energies to pursuits productive of gain, not only to the immigrants themselves, but to society in general in the country in which they have established themselves, or that they finally become assimilated with the people of the country, thus giving, although indirectly, stimulus to certain professions and industries, whose progress is a consequence of the increase of the number of the L ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 309 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 inhabitants of the town. Chinese, on coining to the Philippines, do not comply with any of the conditions of this well-known principle of political economy, which are desirable points to be looked for in immigrants. Why, then, should they be allowed to immigrate in such great numbers, when then presence in the Philippines is not a guarantee of prosperity and progress for the rest of the inhabitants of the Archipelago ? According to a census which was published in 1876, there were 30,797 Chinese in this Archipelago. In ten years this number grew to 99,152 In every society there is an unfaihng balance established between services and remuneration by the economic laws of supply and demand as well as by professional necessities. *The harmonious application of this balance brings about public order and general prosperity. The deficiency or excess in any of the number of either employers or employees disturbs this balance, which, under proper conditions, makes the social edifice symmetrical. In a people like the Filipino people, whose wholesale business is almost entirely in the hands of the Chinese, one cannot hope for the creation of small capitals, which, being added to by labour and economy, serves as a means of improving city property, and for the extension of agriculture and many useful undertakings which are not known in the o J o Philippines as yet, and which, undoubtedly, will never be known through steps taken by the Chinese capitalists. Those who devote themselves to retail business are, in all countries of the world, those who are stockholders in small enterprises which promise profits to small capitals when associated, and here this class of merchants is almost entirely Chinese, and consequently hostile to the most useful projects for the material progress and general improvement of these islands. The Chinese are one of the principal causes of the commercial and industrial backwardness of the Archipelago. It is impossible here, on account of the competition which they make, to attain a position in the middle class of society. This class is the protector and promoter of great enterprises which do not promise immediate dividends, and which must be perfected by means of shares which represent a great capital, that is to say, by the collection of the funds of many contributors. After having read what we have set forth in reference to what was formerly called O J * the Chinese problem,' the following conclusions, briefly, may be deduced: (1.) The Chinese were protected here with undue liberality by the Spanish Government to the. prejudice of Spain herself and of the Philippines. (2.) Furthermore, the losses which the Philippines suffer are considerable, because it is the custom of the Chinese to consume, as far as the necessaries of life are concerned, the food, clothing and other articles which they import from their own country for this purpose. The first of these conclusions is now a matter of history, for the American Government, on taking the place of the Spanish Government here, will not allow the Chinese or their attorneys to bid upon contracts with the State, nor will it tolerate frauds upon the administration, which the Chinese commit by concealing their industries or their numbers. The second conclusion which refers to the losses which the country suffers by the spirit of monopoly of the Chinese, which is shown by their use of imported articles from their own nation, must also be taken into account, and these losses may be -counteracted by the following means : (1) To make all articles coming from China, which are designed for the individual consumption of these Asiatics, such as fresh or preserved provisions, fruit, clothing,"shoes, and others, pay heavy duties in the custom house. (2) To raise the customs duty on opium to a very high rate, in order that the smoker of this extract may pay the country indirectly for the use of it. Opium smokers will be done away with in this manner. (3) To prevent the Chinese from engaging in agriculture, which the Spanish desired them to do, for they would not perceive that apart from the cultivation of the soil it is the surest guarantee of the future of the Philippines, since the sovereignty of Spain and the absorption of the colony by the friars has ceased to exist. Horticulture and floriculture alone should be allowed to the Chinese 310 REPORT OF ROYA L COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 THE HONOURABLE OLIYERP. MORTON'S YIEWS ON THE CHARACTER, EXTENT AND EFFECT OF CHINESE IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY. Note.—-Mr. Morton was Chairman of the Commission appointed in 1896 to inquire into Chinese and Japanese Immigration and it would appear made a minority report, of which the following is all that can be found, a portion having been lost or mislaid. (Section A missing.) B. A discussion of the effect of Chinese immigration upon the country involves many considerations, and any proposition looking to its prohibition or limitation would require us to consider some of the fundamental principles of the theory and practice of our government. It is our proudest boast that American institutions are not arbitrary in their character jj are not the simple creations of force and circumstance, but based upon great and eternal doctrines of the equality and natural rights of men. The foundation-stone in our political edifice is the declaration that all men are equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights • that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to obtain these, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. We profess to believe- that God has given to all men the same rights, without regard to race or color. While this doctrine is beautiful and simple in its enunciation, it has taken one hundred years to establish it by legal formula in our system of government; while there are still large numbers who practically deny the truth of it by preventing it from being carried into execution, and who do not in their minds admit that the coloured race have the same natural rights with white men. And it is unfortunately true that there are many who yet believe that the coloured man should be in bondage ; that slavery is his normal condition and has the sanction of the Almighty. We hope that increasing intelligence and the changed condition of our country will, at a time not far distant, obliterate such belief, and that all people, without regard to party or section, will believe in the equal rights of men, and recognize that doctrine in the administration of State and national governments. A cardinal principle in our government, proclaimed in the declaration of independence, in the articles of confederation, and recognized by our constitution, is, that our country is open to immigration from all parts of the world ; that it was to be the asylum of the oppressed and unfortunate. It is true that when the government was formed, and for nearly three-quarters of a century, no immigration was contemplated except from, nations composed of white people 1 but the principles upon which we professed to act, and the invitation we extended to the world, cannot and ought not to be limited or controlled by race or colour, nor by the character of the civilization of the countries from which immigrants may come. Among the nations of Europe civilization widely varies,, conflicting in many important particulars and differing greatly in degree. Nor should the operation of those principles be limited on account of the religious faith of nations. Absolute religious toleration was regarded by our fathers as of vital importance. Not only were the different sects of christians to be tolerated, but the deist, atheist, the Mohammedan and the Buddhist.Were to be free to express and enjoy their opinions. One of the greatest objections which has long been urged to the Chinese and Japanese was their exclusiveness—their refusal to permit the people of other nations to settle in their midst, or even to travel through their country and acquire a knowledge of their institutions'and condition. This objection has been removed. The doors of China and Japan have been thrown open, and Americans have the right by the laws of those countries, to live there, to do business, and have complete protection • and, beyond that, have rights which we do not give to Chinese and Japanese in this country. If Americans commit offences against the laws of China or Jaoan, they are not to be tried O j. "• J ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 311 54 and punished by the courts of those countries, but by American consular courts, appointed by our own government. At a time when those countries have adopted a libera! policy, and in that respect have yielded to western civilization and especially recognized the force of the example and policy of the United States, it is proposed that we shall take a step backward by the adoption of their cast-off policy of exclusion. The argument set up here in favour of this is precisely that which was so long used to excuse or justify the same policy in China and Japan, viz.: that the admission of foreigners tended to interfere with their trade and the labour of their people, and to corrupt their morals and degrade their religion. The strength and endurance of our government do not depend upon, our material wealth and prosperity * on the contrary, the great increase of wealth and luxury threatens the safety and continuance of our institutions by impairing the virtue of the people, their simplicity and purity of manners, as they did in the ancient republics of Greece and Rome. Nor will the safety and perpetuity of our institutions be insured merely by the general diffusion of education! and intelligence. It may be stated, as a proposition established by experience and reason, that the sheet-anchor of our safety consists in faithful adherence to the cardinal principles upon which our government was established, and the maintenance of that broad, liberal, and humanitarian policy promulgated by our fathers. If our government shall come to be regarded as purely arbitrary-—as the creation of force and circumstance, its final demoralization and destruction are foredoomed. Our greatest, our only absolute security consists in the devotion of the masses of the people to the doctrines upon which the government was founded, and the profound conviction in the minds of the people that the rights of men are not conferred by constitutions or written enactments, which may be altered or abohshed, but are God-given to every human being born into the world, and cannot be violated by constitutions, enactments, or governments, without trampling upon natural and inalienable rights. For, if we come to believe that the rights of men are the mere offspring of constitutions and laws, bad rulers and wicked factions may deem it expedient to take away the rights of a part of the people, and gradually to sap, and finally to overturn our institutions. The institution of slavery and its long maintenance in the doctrine that coloured men had no natural rights, and that slavery was a mere question of political economy or expedience. If it is believed that men have no natural rights, arguments and inducements will be found from time to time to deprive communities or classes of their equality and participation in government. Closely allied to these great doctrines, and, in fact, a necessary outgrowth of them, is that policy which throws open the doors of our nation to the people of other countries, who come to escape oppression or the hard conditions by which they are surrounded, and to make our country their home. In permitting the people of other countries to come here and live and become citizens, we have the right to prescribe such conditions and create such safeguards as may protect us from pauperism, crime and disease; to fix the period of probation and the reasonable terms upon which they may become citizens and entitled to participate in government. To regulate immigration and prescribe the terms upon which we will admit men of foreign birth to the exercise of civil and political rights is one thing, and their prohibition or exclusion, in whole or in any part, is quite another. To make such regulations as will protect the interests, morals, and safety of our people against foreigners is both our right and duty ■ and in the exercise of a sound discretion, I do not say that we may not discriminate among the nations, and exact terms and conditions from the people of one country that we do not deem necessary as to others. We have always made this discrimination with regard to the right to become citizens, by permitting none but white persons to be naturalized. As to all other rights of foreigners coming to our shores to work, to trade, or to live and acquire O O O J J -■- „ property, we have never made any distinction. To do that now would be a great innovation upon the policy and traditions of the government, and would be a long step in the denial of the brotherhood of man, and the broad humanitarian policy inaugurated by our fathers. The limitation.of the right to become naturalized to white persons was placed in the law when slavery was a controlling influence in our government, was maintained by Hi 11 in IM ii i i"i n 312 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 the power of that institution, and is now retained by the lingering prejudices growing out of it. After having abolished slavery, and by amendments to our constitution and the enactment of various statutes establishing the equal civil and political rights of all men, without regard to race or colour, and, at a time when we are endeavouring to overcome the prejudices of education and of race and to secure to coloured men the equal enjoyment of their rights, it would be inconsistent and unsound poMcy to renew and reassert the prejudices against race and.another form of civilization by excluding the copper-coloured people of Asia from our shores. It would be again to recognize the distinctions of race and to establish a new governmental policy upon the basis of colour and a different form of civilization and religion. In California the antipathy to the Mongolian race is equal to that which was formerly entertained in the older states against the negro; and although the reasons given for this antipathy are not the same, and the circumstances of its exhibition are different, still it belongs to the family of antipathies springing from race and religion. As Americans, standing upon the great doctrine to which I have referred, and seeking to educate the masses into their belief, and charged with the administration of the laws by which equal rights and protection shall be extended to all races and conditions, we cannot now safely take a new departure, which, in another form, shall resurrect and reestablish those odious distinctions of race which brought upon us the late civil war, and from which we fondly hoped that God in his providence had delivered us forever. If the Chinese in California were white people, being in all other respects what they are, I do not believe that the complaints and warfare made against them would have existed to any considerable extent. Their difference in colour, in dress, manners and religion have, in my judgment, more to do with this hostility than their alleged vices or any actual injury to the white people in California. The inquiry which the committee were instructed to make does not involve the political rights or privileges of the Chinese. As the law stands, they cannot be naturalized and become citizens• and I do not know that any movement or proposition has been made in any quarter recently to change the law. But the question is, whether they shall be permitted to come to our country to work, to engage in trade, to acquire property, or to follow any pursuit. But before entering upon the discussion of any other principles, I may be permitted to observe that in my judgment the Chinese cannot be protected in the Pacific States while remaining in their alien condition. Without representation in the legislature or Congress, without a voice in the selection of officers, and "surrounded by fierce and, in many respects, unscrupulous enemies, the law will be found insufficient to screen them from persecution. Complete protection can be given them only by allowing them to become citizens and acquire the right of suffrage, when their votes would become important in elections, and their persecutions, in great part, converted into kindly solicitation. In considering any proposition to prohibit Chinese immigration, or to limit it, we must bear in mind the fact, fully established by the evidence, that the Chinese landing upon our Pacific coast comes entirely from the British port of Hong Kong. Though subjects of the Chinese Empire, they embark at a British port, and in that respect are invested with the rights of British subjects, and in any legislation or treaty by which we would propose to limit or to forbid the landing upon our shores of Chinamen, or any other class of people embarking at a British port, we must deal with the British government, and not that of China. With the laws of England, or the marine regulations by which the people of China are permitted to enter a British province and to embark from a British port, we have nothing whatever to do; but it is quite clear that any legislation of ours which would interfere with the landing upon our shores of any class of people embarking at a British port, whether they be Chinese or Japanese subjects, would be an interference with the trade and commerce of that port. It may be an important commercial matter to Great Britain that the port of Hong Kong shall be open to the reception of people from China or any other part of the world who propose to emigrate to the United States or any other country, and if we cut off such emigration, in whole or in part, it is not an interference with the government,of China, for which we should answer to that government, but with the government of England. Our ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 313 refusal to permit a Chinaman to land, who had embarked at a British port upon a British vessel, would certainly be a question with the English government, and not with that of China; and the fact that the person thus forbidden to land was a Chinaman, who had never sworn allegiance to the English government, would not in the least vary the question. In dealing with this question, we should consider and act upon general principles, and should hesitate before adopting a new policy which would be at variance with the genius of our institutions, and enable the world to say that the principles upon which we professed to establish our government in the beginning and upon which we took our place among the nations, have yielded to considerations of doubtful expediency, in conflict with our general professions and character. As before stated, our strength as a republic consists in our faithful adherence to the doctrines upon which it was established, and to the education of our people in their truth, without regard to any temporary interest or condition. The most of the Chinese were labouring men, who came from the rural districts in China, and were accustomed to agricultural pursuits. A few of them were scholars in their own country, some of them were merchants, and a very few mechanics. As a rule, they are industrious, temperate and honest in their dealings. Some thousands of them are employed as household servants in the cities and in the country. In this" capacity the testimony generally concurs in giving them a high character. They very readily learn to perform all kinds of household duty, are devoted to their employment, and soon become exceedingly skilful. The testimony proved that they went to all parts of the State to serve in that capacity, when other servants or help of that kind could not be obtained from the cities, and that if they were banished it would be very hard, in fact, as many of the witnesses said, impossible to supply their places. As labourers upon the farms and in the gardens and vineyards, nearly all the witnesses speak of them in the highest terms. Colonel Hollister, one of the largest farmers in California and a man of great intelligence, testified that without the Chinese the wheat and other crops in California could not be harvested and taken to market; that white labour could not be obtained for prices that would enable the farmer to carry on his business;m that any considerable increase in the price of labour would render the production of wheat and almost every other agricultural product unprofitable, and they would have to be abandoned. In the construction of railroads and other public works of California, the Chinese have been of the greatest service and have performed the largest part of the labour. Several distinguished gentlemen connected with railroads testified that without Chinese o o labour they could not have been constructed, and that if the companies had been compelled to rely upon white labour, it would have been so difficult to procure and so costly that the works must have been abandoned, and in fact would not have been undertaken. As labourers upon the public works thqy were entirely reliable ; worked more hours than white men • were not given to strikes : and never undertook, by combinations, to control the price of labour. The chief point against the Chinese, and that which was put forth as the ground of movements against them, was, that they worked for less wages than white people, and thus took their labour, or compelled them to work for wages upon which they could not subsist and maintain their families and educate their children. That Chinamen work for lower wages and perform the same amount of labour for less money than white people is unquestionably true. They have largely performed the hardest and lowest kind of labour in the State, such as the construction of railroads, reclaiming the tule lands, and every form of drudgery and unskilled labour : but that they have injuriously inter- j o j • • n fered with the white people of California or have done them a serious injury may well be doubted. The great fact is, that there is to-day, and always has been, a scarcity of labour on the Pacific coast. There is work for all who are there, both white and Mongolian, and the State would undoubtedly develop much more rapidly were there more and cheaper labour. There was much intelligent testimony to the fact that the Chinese, by Ml 314 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 their labour, opened up large avenues and demand for white labour. The Chinese perform the lowest kind, while the whites monopolized that of a superior character. This was well stated by Mr. Crocker, a very intelligent witness, largely interested in the Central Pacific and Southern California Railroads. In answer to a question as to what was the effect of Chinese upon white labour, and whether it was to deprive white men of employment, or had had that effect at any time he said : ' I think that they afford white men labour. I think that their presence here affords to white men a more elevated class of labour. As I said before, if they should drive these 75,000 Chinamen off you would take 75,000 white men from an elevated class of work and put them down to doing this low class of labour that the Chinamen are now doing, and instead of elevating, you would degrade the white labour to that extent. For any man to ride through California, from one end of this state to the other, and see the miles upon miles of uncultivated land, and in the mountains millions of acres of timber, and the foot-hills waiting for some one to go and cultivate them, and then talk about there being too much labour here in the country, is simply nonsense, in my estimation. There is labour for all, and the fact that the Chinamen are here gives an opportunity to white men to go in and cultivate this land where they could not cultivate it otherwise. Again he said :— I think that the presence of the Chinese, as labourers among us, 'goes very far toward the material interest of the country; that without their labour we would be thrown back in all branches of industry, farming, mining, reclaiming lands, and everything else. I believe that the effect of Chinese labour upon white labour has an elevating instead of degrading tendency. I think that every white labourer who is intelligent and able to work, who is more than a digger in a ditch, or a man with a pick and a shovel, who has the capacity of being something else, can get to be something else by the presence of Chinese labour easier than he could without it. As I said before, when we were working 800 white men, and that was the extent we could get, we began to put on Chinamen. Instead of our white force decreasing it increased, and when we had eight, nine, and ten thousand Chinamen on the work, we had from 2,500 to 3,000 white men. Instead of these white men being engaged in shoveling dirt or with a pick and shovel, they were teamsters, mechanics, foremen, and men in an elevated grade of labour, receiving wages far above what they would have done if we had had the same number throwing up the dirt and digging in the rock. I know of a great many instances where men have come on to the road and taken a foremanship over Chinamen, and have acquired a little start, which they afterwards used, and they are now independent citizens, owners of farms, owners of corner groceries and stores in the country towns. Other evidence showed that by Chinese labour over one million acres of tule land have been reclaimed. This was work of the hardest and most unhealthy character, requiring them to work for a large part of the time in mud and water • but the lands, when reclaimed, were occupied and cultivated by white men, furnishing a great many homes, and were in fact the richest and most productive in California. They also chiefly performed the work in constructing irrigating canals for farming purposes, and dams and canals for supplying the mines with water, by which a very large extent of country was made exceedingly productive, furnishing homes and employment for thousands of white men, and by which also the mines were made profitable and created a large demand for white labour. The evidence further showed that the railroads chiefly constructed by these people were the pioneers in settlement and agriculture; that the settlements followed the railroads ; that wherever a railroad was constructed the lands were taken up and converted into farms and homesteads. While there was complaint that the Chinese by their cheap labour took it from white people, inquiry failed to show that there was any considerable number of white people in California out of employment, except those who were wilfully idle; that there was work, and remunerative work, for all who chose to perform it • that among the most bitter enemies of the Chinese in the city of San Francisco were the hoodlums, who were notorious idlers and ruffians, and yet made large outcry against Chinese cheap labour. That there have been many instances where Chinamen have been employed in preference to white people because of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 315 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 their cheaper labour is undoubtedly true, but not to an extent that could furnish just cause of complaint requiring legislation or political action for its redress. The field of labour in California is extensive and varied in its character, and people who fail of employment in one direction can as a general thing obtain it in another. No system of labour is healthy or profitable which is not free—in which men are not at liberty to work for such prices as they choose to accept. The field of labour must be open to competition, as is every other branch of business. There is competition among merchants as to who shall sell the cheapest; competition among mechanics and manufacturers; and as labour is honourable, so it must be free and open to the same competition with every other pursuit in life. The labour performed by the Chinese has tended very greatly to the development and prosperity of California. The testimony of many of the witnesses went to show that but for Chinese labour the state would not have half the population, property and production she has today. The testimony was quite conclusive upon the point that the first successful introduction of manufactures into California, in almost every respect, was owing to the employment of Chinese labour; that as manufactures progressed and became firmly established the employment of Chinese gradually diminished and white labour in tnem largely increased : and that that change is still going on. But these O J J o o o manufactures in their infancy could not successfully compete with goods from the eastern States and Europe, except, by employment of the cheapest kind of labour. Mr. B. S. Brooks, a distinguished lawyer in San Francisco, who has lived in the state since 1849, testified as follows in regard to the effect of Chinese labour in that state. He said : I have no doubt that the importation or rather the immigration of Chinese to this State has increased its wealth at least one-half ; I think a great deal more. . In the first 7 O place, the works which they have constructed without their aid would have immediately increased the taxable wealth of the State at least one-half. In addition to that, I am satisfied that they have increased the white population of the State in almost the same proportion, if not quite. I think, without their aid at the present time, the population of the State could not be maintained at more than one-half its present amount, if to that extent. I am satisfied from the inquiries that I have made from all parts (and it is impossible for me to present all these witnesses before you) that the product of the State—its chief export, wheat—cannot be produced at the price at which it can be exported, if the cost of production is increased at all. Tbfere is a considerable portion of the State, including land that has been cultivated, which will not bear cultivation at the present time—that is to say, the crop which it will produce will not pay at the present price of wheat here for export, and it will not pay the cost of its production. The yield of wheat from these lands, as everyone probably knows without any testifying to it, steadily decreases. (Section D is missing). E. In our treaty with China, concluded in 1868, commonly known as the •Burlingame treaty,' I find the following articles :— ARTICLE v. The United States of America and the Emperor of China cordially recognize the inherent and inalienable right of man to change his home and allegiance, and also the mutual advantage of the free migration and emigration of their citizens and subjects, respectively, from one country to the other, for purposes of curiosity, of trade, or as permanent residents. The high contracting parties, therefore, join in reprobating any other than an entirely voluntary emigration for these purposes. They consequently agree to pass laws making it a penal offense for a citizen of the United States or Chinese subject to take Chinese subjects either to the United States or to any other foreign country, or for a Chinese subject or citizen of the United States to take citizens of the United States to China, or to any other foreign country, without their free and voluntary consent respectively. 316 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 ARTICLE VI. Citizens of the United States visiting or residing in China shall enjoy the same privileges, immunities, or exemptions in respect to travel or residence as may there be enjoyed by the citizens or subjects of the most favoured nation. And, reciprocally, Chinese subjects visiting or residing in the United States, shall enjoy the same-privileges, immunities and exemptions in respect to travel or residence as may there be enjoyed by the citizens or subjects of the most favoured nation. But nothing herein contained shall be held to confer naturalization upon citizens of the United States in China, nor upon the subjects of China in the United States. ARTICLE VII. Citizens of the United States shall enjoy all the privileges of the public educational institutions under the control of the government of China; and reciprocally Chinese subjects shall enjoy all the privileges of the public educational institutions under the control of the government of the United States, which are enjoyed in the respective countries by the citizens or subjects of the most favoured nation. The citizens of the United States may freely establish and maintain schools within the Empire of China at those places where foreigners are by treaty permitted to reside, and reciprocally, Chinese subjects may enjoy the same privileges and immunities in the United States. In the foregoing articles we find a strong recognition of the inherent and inalienable o o © © right of man to change his home and his allegiance, and that Chinese subjects visiting or residing in the United States, shall possess the same privileges, immunities and exemptions as may be here enjoyed by the citizens and subjects of the most favoured nation. When this treaty was concluded with China, it was regarded by the whole J O J nation as a grand triumph of American diplomacy and principles, and Mr. Burlingame, on his return to San Francisco, received an extraordinary ovation as U benefactor of his country, by having secured to Americans the protection of the Chinese Government, and the right to live there and trade (in return for which he had guaranteed similar rights for the Chinese in the United States), and for having secured from China a recognition of what may be called the * great American doctrine ' of the inherent and inalienable right of man to change his home and his allegiance. For the recognition of this doctrine by the governments of Europe we had been strugglimg, by negotiation, ever since we had a national existence, and had succeeded with them, one by one. And within the last eight years we have secured the recognition of the doctrine by Germany and other states of Europe, that had long held out against us. In the early days of California the price of labour was exorbitant, and rendered it impossible to employ men for any other purpose than mining or in raising provisions for the support of miners, at a time and at places where transportation was most difficult, and they could not be brought from other states or countries, except at an enormous cost. These high prices made it impossible to engage in manufactures or any pursuit* that came into competition with the productions of other countries, and it was only when prices had become greatly reduced, chiefly by the presence of the Chinese, that California was at all able to send her agricultural productions into the markets of the world. And it is undoubtedly true, notwithstanding the outcry against Chinese cheap labour, that the average rate of wages in California is higher than in any other part of the United States, and now stands largely in the way of the development of the State. It is said that the presence of the Chinese in California prevents the emigration thither of white people, and therefore stands in the way of the growth of the state. If such is the fact (which I do not admit) it springs from the persecution visited upon the Chinamen, and the exaggerated declarations which have been made in excuse for them, that the Chinese interfere with white labour and leave white people out of work or reduce their wages by competition below the riving point. If white people are deterred w-AV CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 317 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 from going to California it is not a legitimate result of the presence of the Chinese, but by the gross misrepresentations which have been made. Looking at the question broadly and at the effect which Chinese labour has exerted in California, running through a period of twenty-five years, I am strongly of the opinion that but for the presence of the Chinese, California would not now have more than one-half or two-thirds of her present white population. That Chinese labour has opened up many avenues and new industries for white labour, made many kinds of business possible, and laid the foundation of manufacturing interests that bid fair to rise to enormous proportions. That the presence of the Chinese, holding out the prospect for labour at reasonable rates, induced the transfer of large amounts of capital and immigration to California and of large numbers of business and enterprising men, thus making California the most inviting field for immigrants from every class of society, including labouring men • and lastly, that the labouring men of California have ample employment and are better paid than in almost any other part of the country. But it is said that although Chinese labour was at one time of great value to the state, and contributed largely to its settlement and development, that period is past and the time is come when the Chinaman can be dispensed with and that his further presence in California is an injury. In this connection I may speak of the wonderful production of wheat in the state, the superior quality of which has made it a favourite article in the markets of Europe. The system of farming chiefly employed is, by the concurrent testimony of witnesses, rapidly exhausting the land and threatens to bring about the same condition of the soil which was produced by the continuous cultivation of tobacco in Yirginia. Much land that was fertile and profitable for wheat a few years ago is abandoned as worthless. On this subject Colonel Hollister testified as follows, on page 768 of the printed record of testimony:— I find that it is almost impossible to carry on my farming with the cheapest labour I can get. With the minimum paid for farming work, say $25 a month and board, I find that it is impossible to live. I pay out $5 for every $4 I get and have done it for ten years so far as farming is concerned, and yet I claim to be a good farmer. It is not my fault, it is not the fault of the soil, it is not the fault of the climate, but it is the fault of the price of labour. My own conviction is from what I know and have seen and from my own experiments and what I have seen of my neighbours, that there is not a farm in the state scientifically handled, handled well, with a view to the perpetuity of the soil, with a view to its permanency, without exhaustion, restoring as we take away, that will survive at $25 a month for labour. A farmer cannot survive on the payment of a minimum of $25 a month and board. The farm will not pay the labour. Any one can see that if you pay a man $25 a month it is $300 a year, and board and incidental losses of time and so on will go to make up the whole amount at about $500 a year. Every 160 acres has to turn out $500 a year in gold to pay the help before the farmer gets one dollar. No farmer in the state can farm at that rate. © Mr. Hollister also, on page 769, says : It is very apparent that we are simply leaving a desert behind us. That is the history of California farming. We are taking every pound of bread out of the soil and sending it to Europe. There are only so many pounds of bread in an acre of land, and when you take it out there is no more : you have got to restore the elements. That J requires labour and an expenditure of money. To-day it is a simple drain all the time. It is a draft upon the bank to pay this exorbitant labour. The farmer will not stand it, and no man in the world can stand it. I have seen myself twenty crops of wheat taken off, and that is a fact without a parallel anywhere else on the face of the earth, I think. Yet that land is all going. I have seen here, almost in sight of this town, eighty bushels of wheat produced to the acre. I have seen the same land, years afterward, when you could run a dog through it without striking a stalk. That is poverty ; that is failure ; and when your soil is bankrupt, your farming is bankrupt \ and when your farming is bankrupt commerce is gone. Mr. Brooks says, on page 902 : There is a considerable portion of the State, including land that has been cultivated, which will not bear cultivation at the present time; that is to say, the crop which it will 318 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 produce will not pay at the present price of wheat here for export, and it will not pay the cost of its production. The yield of wheat from these lands, as every one probably knows without my testifying to it, steadily decreases. What Colonel Hollister said agrees with my own experience in that respect. I have been in the habit of travelling from this city to the different county seats in different parts of the State, and I have observed a gradual decline of the product of the land. I think a great portion of the land that is within reach of the market by water communication, by natural communication, ceases to be productive. I have had here for two days, waiting to testify, an Irishman, a small farmer who lives near Livermore, within easy distance of the railroad. He cultivates his own farm with his own family. He has his accounts for the year with him. He is a very prudent, saving man, and his wife is as hard-working as he is, and his children- assist him. He gave me the figures. I forget what the figures are now, but his expenses were considerably above his income, and he told me he should have to discontinue the cultivation of his farm. He has a mortgage on it, and he has no hopes whatever of paying the mortgage, and he says he must give it up. That is a farm within easy reach, and it is not an exhausted farm by any means; it is new land, comparatively. Other witnesses testified very strongly to the same facts, and that the wheat lands of California were being gradually exhausted, and would soon be adandoned, and when new land could no longer be had, the wheat culture of California would be at an end ; and with it, the chief source of agricultural prosperity. For this there are two principal causes : first, the facility of procuring new land; and, second, the high price of labour, which forbids the application of those principles by which lands are improved and preserved. With the same amount of labour at present prices which is bestowed by the farmer upon the wheat lands east of the Mississippi River, wheat culture in California would be unprofitable, and could not be carried on. California has progressed with more rapidity in wealth and population than any other state in the Union, in spite of our distance, and the time and expense necessary to get there, until the opening of the Union Pacific Railroad within the last few years. G. The testimony shows that the intellectual capacity of the Chinese is fully equal to that of white people. Their ability to acquire the mechanic arts, and to imitate every process and form of workmanship, ranks very high, and was declared by manv of the witnesses to be above that of white people ; and their general intellectual power to understand mathematics, and master any subject presented to the human understanding, to be quite equal to that of any other race. Judge Haydenfeldt, a very intelligent witness, and for several years a member of the Supreme Court, testified as follows :— Q. How does the intellectual ability of the Chinaman, so far as your observation enables you to judge, compare with that of Americans in the same corresponding class ? —A. I think their general intelligence is greater. My impression is, from my information and observation, that there are very few Chinamen of the ordinary labouring class who cannot read and write their own language. In my intercourse with them, I find them always quick to understand and very quick to appreciate. They exhibit also ready intelligence, much more so than you will generally find.among the or. inary labouring class of whites. eSSI Q. What is the general knowledge or comprehension of the Chinese of the character of our institutions and the nature of government ?—A. It would be very hard to say. It is a subject that they never speak upon at all, and if they are ever addressed in regard to it, it is in the most general manner, relating to the administration of the laws or something of that kind. They recognize perfectly that every man is equal before the law, and that there is a redress for every wrong • and they understand also that if they fail to get the redress, it is from the lack of evidence, or from the lack of catching the culprit. They understand that our courts are conducted in the most judicious manner for the purpose of ascertaining what is right and what is wrong. These ideas I have derived from occasionally having interviews with them where they have had business with the courts. a ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 319 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Mr. Cornelius B. S. Gibbs, an adjuster of marine losses, testified as follows, on page 530: As, men of business I consider that the Chinese merchants are fully equal to our merchants. As men of integrity, I have never met a more honourable, high-minded, correct, and truthful set of men than the Chinese merchants of our city. I am drawn in contact with people from all nations, all the merchants of our city, in our adjustments. I have never had a case where the Chinese have attempted to undervalue their goods or bring fictitious claims into the adjustments. Again, on page 531, he says : Q. Are their losses generally adjusted without law suits ?-—A. I never had a law suit with them or never had a complaint from them in my life. You have got to get their confidence, and explain to them, and they generally go through with the figuring themselves. They can figure very fast and very correctly, and when they are convinced everything is right, there is no trouble. There is no class of people that pay up as quickly as the Chinese. On Saturday we send them notice that the average is closed, and on Monday, by ten or twelve o'clock, all the certificates are paid. I have had fifty and sixty thousand dollars in a case, and they would come straight forward and pay it before twelve o'clock, while we have to send around to the other merchants a month and sometimes two months before we get it all from them. Rev. Mr. Loomis, who was a missionary in China from 1844 to 1850, and who had been engaged as a missionary among the Chinese in California from 1859 to the present time, said (page 462) : Q. What have you to say of the intellectual capacities of the Chinese generally ? —A. The history of China, the permanency of the government, the fact of its continued existence through all the ages since the dispersion from Babylon, and to-day a stronger nation than ever before, answers that question; the career of such men as Yung Wing, once a poor boy in the streets of Macao, now honoured with his LL.D. from New Haven College, where he graduated with honours ; the rapid progress and high standing of the Chinese students in our eastern institutions; the essay of one of the Lai Sun family, which took the prizes in such institution as Phillips Academy (and those students are taken from all classes of society, but largely from Canton province); the progress made by the scholars in all our mission schools—their enterprise, skill, and success in all branches of business which they undertaken—all these facts are sufficient answers to the question, l Have the Chinese intellectual capacity ?' Mr. Heydenfeldt, on page 511, testifies : Q. How does the intellectual ability of the Chinaman, so far as your observation enables you to judge, compare with that of Americans in the same corresponding class ? —A. I think their general intelligence is greater. My impression is, from my information and observation, that there are very few Chinamen of the ordinary labouring class who cannot read and write their own language. In my intercourse with them I find them always quick to understand and very quick to appreciate. They exhibit also a ready intelligence, much more so than you will generally find among the ordinary labouring class of whites. Q. What is the general knowledge or comprehension of the Chinese of the character of our institutions and the nature of our government ?—A. It would be very hard to say. It is a subject that they never speak upon at all; and, if they are ever addressed in regard to it, it is in the most general manner, relating to the administration of the law or something of that kind. They recognize perfectly that each man is equal before the law, and that there is a redress for every wrong ; and they understand, also, that if they fail to get the redress, it is from the lack of evidence, or from the lack of catching the culprit. They understand that our courts are conducted in the most judicious manner for the purpose of ascertaining what is right and what is wrong. These ideas I have derived from occasionally having interviews with them, where they have had business with the courts. The Chinese are the original inventors of printing, gunpowder, the mariner's compass, and many articles that are of great importance to the world; but it is undoubtedly true that they have made very little progress in the arts and sciences for several cen- 320 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 turies. This has been, by some, erroneously considered as evidence of their inferior mental capacity. The late Mr. Seward, a profound observer, in his ' Yoyage around the World,' thus speaks of Chinese civilization : 'The Chinese, though not of the Caucasian race, have all its moral and social adapt- bilities. Long ago they reached a higher plane of civilization than most European nations attained until a much later period. The western nations ha/ve since risen above this plane. The Chinese have made no advancement. Although China is far from being a barbarous state, yet every system and institution there is inferior to its corresponding one in the west. Whether it be the abstract sciences, such as philosophy and psychology, or whether it be the practical forms of natural science, astronomy, geology, geography, natural history, and chemistry, or the concrete ideas of government and laws, morals and manners; whether it be in the aesthetic arts or mechanics, everything in China is effete. Chinese education rejects science. Chinese industries proscribe invention. Chinese morals appeal not to conscience, but to .convenience. Chinese architecture and navigation eschew all improvements. Chinese religion is materialistic, not even mystic, much less spiritual. If we ask how this inferiority has come about among a people who have achieved so much in the past, and have such capacities for greater achievements in the future, we must conclude that, owing to some error in their social system, the faculty of invention has been arrested in its exercise and impaired. The intellectual stagnation in China is the result of their institutions. The minds of men have been diverted from science and the arts to the endless ceremonies and ritual of innumerable gods. It was said long ago that * no people can rise above the plane of the gods they worship'; and Chinese civilization long ago rose to the level of their gods. For centuries the Chinese intellect has been hampered, in fact paralyzed by her institutions, which directed the studies of her scholars to subjects from which no benefit or progress could come, to subjects which would not enlarge the intellect, improve the condition of the people, or add to the national development. Through the long lapse of the middle ages the intellect of Europe was paralyzed by misdirection. Ambition was directed to military achievements, the knowledge of science and literature being lightly esteemed, and for a thousand years or more the intellect of Europe was directed to purposes from which no good, progress or national elevation could come. It was not until the feudal system gave way that the mind of Europe was diverted from the old ruts into new channels, which led to the acquisition of useful knowledge, and finally, by the Baconian philosophy, which looked to actual results, treated all learning as useless which did not tend to the improvement of the intellectual, social and material condition of mankind. The learning of the Greeks and Romans, in many respects elevated and refined, wasted the intellect chiefly in metaphysical discussions, which, however beautiful in showing intellectual power, were yet barren in results, so far as the advancement of science and the improvement of the physical and material condition of the race was concerned. The intellect of Greece and Rome expended its force ingreat part upon subjects which did not advance the condition of mankind; and for more than twelve hundred years the intellect of Europe, hampered and contracted by her institutions, added but little to the progress of the sciences and arts. But, because of these undeniable historical facts, it would not do to say that the actual intellect or brain power of men through these long periods was less than it is to-day, when the world is making such rapid progress. It was the result of misdirection of the human mind, and stagnation—the result of their institutions and condition. As the intellect of Europe burst the cerements by which it had so long been bound, and embarked in a career of discovery and invention, before unknown in the world's history, so it is possible that China may yet be emancipated from her intellectual bonds, and with her powers of invention, analysis, and imagination released from the thraldom of ages, may start anew, and again outstrip the western nations as she had done before. China was a civilized nation two thousand years before civilization dawned in Europe, and when the ancestors of the refined and haughty inhabitants of the western countries were howling, savages, worshipping rude idols and making human sacrifices. To a people with such a history we should be charitable. The most of the Chinese in California can read and ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 321 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 write in their own language. Many of them are excellent merchants and business men. They are the best of bookkeepers and accountants, and conduct their business in the most methodical way. H. The evidence established the fact that Chinese labour in California is as free as any other. They all come as free men and are their own masters absolutely.. In many cases they borrow their passage money in China, with an agreement to repay from their earnings in this Country, with large interest, an agreement which, to their credit be it said, they rarely fail to perform. Nearly all of them upon their arrival become members of one or the other of the six companies in San Francisco, for which they pay an initiation fee, and through that they do their business, make their contracts for labour, make remittance to China, deposit their money, and make arrangements for the return of their bones to China, should they die. They are much given to corporations and companies, and understand well the power and advantage of combination. They frequently work together in associations, under the direction of a head man, who keeps their accounts and transacts their business. The most of the Chinese, who come here are young men and boys. A few families have come, but nearly all of the men are unmarried. About five thousand Chinese women have come, the most of them prostitutes, imported by procurers, who manage and dispose of them on their arrival. The better and the greater part of the Chinese are opposed to this degrading and destructive traffic, and have made repeated efforts to abolish it. At one time they succeeded in getting a number of these prostitutes on board a ship to return them to China, but a prominent lawyer in San Francisco procured a writ of habeas corpus and brought them before the court, which decided that they had a right to remain, and discharged them. The original responsibility for their importation lies with the Steamship Companies and masters of sailing vessels, who should have refused to bring them. But when we consider the extent and effect of white prostitution in all our large cities, and the openness with which they ply their vocations, we cannot charge this to the Chinese as an original offence, or one peculiar to their colour. A vice to which they are peculiarly addicated is gambling. This they carry on extensively, but not more so, nor so recklessly, as it was practised by the white settlers of California when they had with them but few wives and families, and it is largely due to their homeless and outcast condition, and to the persecutions which drive them together for recreation and protection It is, like prostitution, a vice greatly to be deplored, but not so peculiarly Chinese as to make it the basis of special legislation. The Chinese are not addicted to the use of intoxicating liquors ; keep no saloons or whisky shops, and a drunken Chinaman is rarely seen in San Francisco. Their form of intemperance is in the use of opium, which they smoke in shops set apart for that purpose. It does not produce violence or outbreak, but stupor, followed by languor, depression, and disease, and the number who practice it is smaller than the number of whites who visit saloons and get drunk. A common vice with them is perjury in the courts. The testimony shows them in many instances to have very imperfect conceptions of the obligations of an oath. They are in every respect free men, and no form or semblance of slavery or serfdom exists among them. But it is also true that their prostitutes are imported as slaves, are often bought and sold for that purpose in San Francisco. It is, of course, a voluntary bondage in this country, but it is submitted to by the miserable beings, who are helpless and defenseless among strangers, and must submit to the will of their masters for the mere matter of existence. In many cases Chinamen who buy them live with them as wives and raise families. Labour must needs be free, and have complete protection, and be left open to competition. Labour does not require that a price shall be fixed by the law, or that men who live cheaply and can work for lower wages, shall, for that reason, be kept out of the country. ■ 54—21 L 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 1902 PAET II JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 54—211 2 EDWARD VII. SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 A. 1902 The Honourable R. W. Scott, Secretary of State, Toronto, March 8, 1902. Ott awa. I have the honour to transmit herewith Part II of the Report on Chinese and Japanese Immigration, namely, that part relating to Japanese Immigration. Much that was said in Part I, as to the effect of Chinese immigration upon the various industries, upon white labour, and in retarding the settlement of the country, applies with equal force to the Japanese. Part II is therefore supplementary to Part I, and deals principally with those industries in which the Japanese are employed, namely, the fisheries and lumber industries, and employment incidental to these, as boat building and getting out shingle bolts, cordwood cutting, &c. The Province of British Columbia, the Japanese, Chinese and labour unions were represented by eminent counsel, who requested and received permission to examine the witnesses in respect of the matters which they represented. This of course took very much more time than if the examination had been limited to questions asked by the ■Commissioners. It was the course adopted in the important commission appointed by the United States Congress to inquire into Chinese immigration, and was the only course which could give satisfaction to all concerned, and offered the fullest opportunity to educe evidence that might be thought material to the different interests. Counsel for the province attended throughout, and counsel for the Chinese and Japanese at all the principal places where evidence was taken, the labour unions were only represented at Yancouver. The plan adopted of inquiring into each industry and the presence of counsel unavoidably occupied much time, but the Commissioners pressed the work to the limit of consent of the attending counsel, holding two sittings each day. Every trade and calling employing oriental labour was inquired into, and most important information for the purpose of comparison was obtained on the American side in regard to industries developed under like conditions as obtain in British Columbia. This whole mass of evidence—containing about seventeen or eighteen thousand folios—to be of any value had to be arranged, sifted and passed upon. Each subject and industry was dealt with separately, and the final conclusion reached from the consideration of the whole. The evidence quoted on each subject matter fairly represents the whole, and in a comparatively short space renders the vast mass of evidence available for reference. The Commissioners desire to express their appreciation of the excellent work done by the secretary, Mr. Francis J. Deane, gathering data, in bringing the subject of the 325 326 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Commission prominently before all parties interested before the formal sittings of the Commission, thus giving the fullest opportunity for the expression of opinion and presentation of facts by all parties interested, and during the sittings of the Commission in arranging for the different interests to present their views and procuring the attendance of witnesses, and in every way' facilitating the work of the Commission • so that absolutely no time was lost in waiting for witnesses or otherwise. The Commissioners also desire to express satisfaction for the efficient work done by Mr. Alexander Crawford, stenographer to the Commission, in taking the evidence. His work was much more arduous than court work, because it was continuous and the hours longer. t The argument of counsel representing the Province of British Columbia and the Chinese will be found in the Appendix, Part I, and that of counsel representing the Japanese in the Appendix to Part II. The Commissioners desire to acknowledge the great assistance rendered by counsel who represented the different interests. (See Appendix to Parts I and II for argument of counsel.) The importance of the inquiry, involving questions Provincial, National and International, and relating to every natural industry in the province, pressed upon your Commissioners the necessity of approaching the questions involved with the utmost care, and of avoiding any conclusion that was not in their opinion abundantly supported by the evidence. Both in taking the evidence and in the more laborious work of preparing the report no more time has been occupied than was absolutely essential, commensurate with the difficulty and importance of the subject matters dealt with. R. C. CLUTE, Chairman. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 327 CHAPTER I.—JAPANESE IMMIGRATION. Prior to the year 1896 no record was kept of the number of Japanese who arrived in British Columbia, and the records for 1896 are said to be' imperfect. Statement showing the number of Japanese landed at Yictoria, B.C., as follows :— July 1, 1896, to June 30, 1897 691 July 1, 1897, to June 30, 1898 1,189 July 1, 1898, to June 30, 1899 1,875 July 1, 1899, to June 30, 1900 j 9,033 July 1, 1900, to June 30, 1901 1,125 Total from July 1, 1896, to June 30, 1901 13,913 From July 1, 1899, to April 13, 1900, there arrived at Yancouver 520 Japanese, of whom 390 were destined for Canada. The great influx occurred between July 1, 1899, and August 30, 1900, amounting to 11,272. The following table will show the number of arrivals per month :— Canadian Ports. Other Ports. Total. July August September. 1899. 241 248 260 184 519 19 298 417 934 3,020 2,667 1,495 125 99 146 188 212 85 181 246 674 1,773 1,826 494 366 347 406 November December January. 1900. 372 731 104 479 Februarv .. 663 March April .s 1,608 4,793 May 4,493 June. . . .. _ 1,989 Total, 1899-1900 10,302 6,049 16,351 1900. July 685 285 44 62 39 14 13 13 27 5 12 24 173 41 16 12 19 26 14 35 36 42 70 89 858 Ansruat 326 September . 66 October 74 November Dfwimbp.r 58 40 January . 1901. 27 48 March , 63 Atvril. _ ...... .. 47 May Total, 1900-1901 | 1901. 82 113 1,223 573 1,796 July 13 6 7 13 7 10 86 47 90 123 90 166 99 53 September 97 October 136 97 176 Total, 1901 56 602 658 From July, 1899, to December 31, 19( )1— 11,581 7,224 # 18,805 328 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 JAPANESE IMMIGRANTS TO PUGET SOUND. The following statement is instructive as showing not only the number of Japanese immigrants in the Pacific coast states, but also the number that were rejected under their immigration laws :-r- - 3,631 Japanese immigrants arrived at Port Townsend, Washington State, between July 1, 1898, and Nov. 30, 1899 ; of these, 904 were examined by United States immigration^ officers stationed in Canada, and 2,727 were examined and passed at the port of arrival. The number which entered Puget Sound customs district for various points in the United States between December 1, 1899, and November 30,1900, was 9,770, of whom 266" were rejected. The total number of Japanese admitted through the ports of Washington State for 29 months, from July 1, 1899, to November 1, 1900, was 13,401 ; rejected as above, 266. The last United States census gives the number of Japanese in Washington State as 5,617. The commissioner of labour for California gives the total number of Japanese in the state as 14,296 (by the last United States census it is stated to be 10,151); of these over 5,000 entered during the last two years. From Yictoria by card 348, from Yictoria by card, 1899, 274, and during 1900, up to December 1, 1,000, or a total of 1,622 j which, added to the 904 who entered the Sound District from Canada, gives a total of over 2,500 that entered these two states from Canada during the last two years. The present census shows that there are 4,759 Japanese in Canada, of whom 4,578 are in British Columbia. There is no record to show how many Japanese have returned from Canada to Japan. JAPANESE IN THE UNITED STATES. I Of the 86,000 Japanese returned in 1900, 61,1 IT were enumerated in Hawaii; 279 in Alaska, 284 in military and naval stations abroad, and 24,326 in the United States proper, and of the latter number 23,376 "wereiound in the western states and territories, distributed as follows : Arizona 281 California 10,151 Colorado i 48 Idaho 1,291 Montana | 2,441 Nevada 228 New Mexico 8 Oregon 2,501 Utah 417 Washington 5,617 Wyoming . 393 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 329 The recent rapid increase of the number of Japanese in these states and British Columbia will appear from the following : 1900. 1890. 1880. Arizona California Idabo Montana Sj Z-- 281 10,1*1 48 3,379 2,441 228 8 2,501 417 5,617 393 1'J. • 1,147 10 1,291 6 3 3 25 4 360 2 86 New Mexico 3 Oregon Utah 2 Washington " Wyoming..«, 1 The following table gives a comparison of the number of Japanese, with the total population of the Pacific coast states and British Columbia: British Columbia. Total population ... Number of Japanese 177,272 4,578 Washington. Total population Number of Japanese 1880. 75,116 1 1890. 349,390 360 1900. 51S, 103 5,617 Oregon. Total population Number of Japanese Total population. Number of Japanese California. 1,208,130 1,485,053 1,147 10,151 Disproportion of Japanese Males and Females The disproportion in British Columbia is about the same. The exact figures are not vet obtainable from the census returns. mam 330 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VIL, A. 1902 CAUSE OF THIS LARGE INFLUX. Different reasons have been assigned for this large influx of Japanese into Canada and the United States during the year 1900. The reasons given by the commissioner of the bureau of labour statistics of California are as follows : He says, I made considerable effort to ascertain the reason for the abnormal increase in the number of Japanese arrivals during the early part oTT9U0, wiflTthe resuit~thatT three reasons, that seemed in some degree plausible, were advanced, namely:— 1st. The generally advertised prosperous condition of the country, and reported demand for labour, which naturally stimulates immigration. 2nd. That emigration recruiting agencies in Japan had booked a large number of Japanese emigrants for Honolulu ; that about the time they were aboard ship the bubonic. plague with its resulting quarantine, etc. appeared at that place, and stopped the send ing of the emigrants there and that the agencies named, rather than surrender their commissions, induced the emigrants in most cases to change their destination from Honolulu to San Francisco, and in this connection will be noted that the time of the coming of the largest numbers of Japanese per month was coincident with the time of the prevalence of the said plague in Honolulu. 3rd. That, taking advantage of supposed favourable conditions, emigration agencies in Japan were extremely active in fostering the exodus of Japanese to California and other American ports for the sake of accruing commissions. Now, as to the cause of the sudden decrease in the said arrivals, which became apparent about May and June, 1900, it seems authoritatively to be stated that it has t been in a large part due to the action of the Japanese Government in restricting the ( departure of its subjects for American points. | In this connection the evidence of Mr. Frank Burnett, of Yancouver, president of the United Canners, Limited, is important. He says : I was in Japan last winter and took considerable interest in the matter while I was over there. I gdfTntroduction to different individuals, and explained the situation to them, that is the large number that came in here last year, and that a great deal of feeling was being created against the Japanese on that account. They seemed to realize the importance of preventing any great immigration of their people here or of reducing the present number that is alio wed- by law to come from each district. There has been a reduction imposed. That had been imposed prior to my visit. They seemed willing to further restrict and seemed anxious to maintain friendly relations with us. Q. Can you explain why it was such a large number of them came here at one C time ?—A. It was about the time 1 was going over there, and I got the credit for bringing them over ■ about that time the Philippine and the-Hawaiian Islands had both come 1 under American sovereignty; and on that account those two countries that hitherto re- V ceived large numbers of Japanese immigrants were closed from any further immigration from Japan, and for that reason the tide of immigration was changed to this country. Q. How could they accomplish that; there is no law in the United States against Japanese immigration'?—A. They use their Alien Act to stop them; and there is no- doubt that was the cause of so many Japanese coming here last year, and not because . I happened to be in Japan. Alexander B. Milne, C.B., Collector of Customs at Yictoria, said : The Japanese have decreased in number since August last. There was some restriction placed on the transportation from Japan, I believe. That was the chief cause. I believe the Japanese Government imposed some restrictions on their people leaving the country, and that that was the chief cause of the falling off in the number of Japanese coming here. . . The Japanese now have a rule by which they only permit a certain number to leave Japan ; I think it is 47 a month they will give a permit to. HOW JAPANESE IMMIGRATION IS PROMOTED. In November, 1898, a Commissioner was sent by the United States Government to Japan for the purpose of investigating the subject of Japanese immigration into the ' ■¥*■ I ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 331 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 United States. (See Appendix.) He points out that f Under the Japanese law every subject is registered in his native prefecture, which he may not leave without permission of the authorities and from which he, or she, must obtain their passport, when they desire to emigrate. Inasmuch as the Government claims the perpetual allegiance of its subject, it grants a passport, limited to three years, and I was informed that a large part of the emigrants who thus go abroad return to their native land sooner or later, and consequently few Japanese, and indeed I may say none, come to the United States with a view to remaining or making homes, the theory of their emigration system being for the promotion of emigration as an educational process and money-making investment for a temporary period, the profits of which accrue jointly to the promoter and to the emigrant, the Japanese Empire being the recipient of what may be described as the unearned increment through its people that thus go abroad, through their contact with more enlightened people, and by reason of the accumulated capital, which they return to their native land. It is through the tenacious allegiance which the subjects of Japan yield to their sovereign that the promotion of emigration becomes a reasonably safe business.' It further appears from this report that there are twelve companies organized to promote emigration, with a total capital of 558,999 yen (a yen, about 50 cents gold value). Six of these companies have agents in the United States and Canada. They have offices at all important emigration centres. At Tokyo they have an association of emigration companies, which is in the nature of an Emigration Board of Trade. It is said that the offices of these companies are well equipped for business purposes • that the managers and stockholders are among the leading business men and politicians of Japan. The emigration companies all advertise more or less in the newspapers for contract labour, designating them to go to Hawaii, Peru and Mexico, and they advertise through circu- lars, pamphlets and by means of travelling solicitors for emigrants going to the United States. It is further stated that ' the documentary evidence herein presented as a whole shows that the business is vigorously and aggressively prosecuted through personal solicitations of agents, whose earnings depend on their zeal and success. The emigration companies are all provided with blanks for obtaining passports. Agents of the steamship companies and emigration companies do not occupy offices together; they are nevertheless very closely connected through the brokers and hotel keepers, and it is hard to draw a line of separation of interest. Many of the hotel keepers are emigration brokers and nearly all brokers are intimately connected with the emigration companies ; while it is safe to assert that if the steamship companies were to establish and maintain a fixed rate for steerage passage, it would cut the profits of the brokers, hotel keepers, and emigration companies 50 per cent, and it seems to me conclusive that if it were not for the existence of the emigration companies and these agencies for the collection of emigrants to go abroad, the profits of the steamship companies would be materially reduced. By their present methods the steamship companies, whether intentionally or otherwise, clearly offer inducements for the emigration companies to solicit the emigrants, both being large capitalized enterprises that have a mutual interest, which is inseparable, as long as they are allowed to exist side by side, the one to obtain fees from emigrants and the other to receive steerage passage. * Great stress was laid by Japanese officials upon the fact that the Japanese government requires every emigrant to provide sureties to provide for his return to the "country in case of need, before granting a passport. I talked with many men of long experience in Japan and found but one universal opinion, that not ten per cent of the emigrants leaving that country could or would go unless thev had assistance or were helped or assisted by some person or influence. Aside from the facts herein presented the coolie class could find no proper sureties, such as are required by the government, unless some arrangement was provided by responsible parties for looking after this class of emigration after they land in the United States.' The commissioner further states that ' the great mass of emigrants, say 95 per cent of the whole, are coolie labourers and small farmers who class as coolies.' 332 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 He places the population of Japan at forty-three millions, with a density of 293 to the square mile, and says : The great mass of the people live by farming,, which includes silk raising and fishing, at which occupation they earn from 100 to 150 yens per annum, which suffices to support a family of about four:—a man, a wife, and two or three children. In large families the mother and other children work. The agricultural implements used are of the most primitive character, and the. allotment of land to the family or individual is in most cases less than an acre. There are no division fences, each little tract being divided from its neighbour by a little ridge of dirt from 1^ to 3. feet wide. Factory employees earn from 15 to 20 sen per day. Farm labourers earn from 15 to 30 sen per day, depending upon locality. The labour which Japan sends abroad is pauper labour. My reasons for thus classing it are that the over-population of Japan has reduced the value of labour below a decent living, point, measured by civilized standard, and further that this competition is increasing in such force that it seems unreasonable to assume the probability of the value of labour approximating the cost of future products and living. The agricultural interests of Japan are practically incapable of expansion, which forces all surplus labour into the employment of various manufactures and into fishing. Japan's market for manufactures is, and must for fifty years remain, very limited, if we , except silk, pottery, curios, &c, and even the demand for these native products must find a limit. The question naturally occurs, how do they raise sufficient money to emigrate i As I intimated in my report of the 24th ultimo, the emigration companies in certain instances furnish them money, sending a banto along with the emigrants to look after their interests. I found, by inquiring among the people, that it requires from five to ten years for a Japanese farmer to save 200 yen. Some undoubtedly do this, but the majority secure money by selling their holdings and by borrowing from the emigration companies, friends and relatives, upon whom they are more or less dependent, going their security. The laws are very strict in Japan concerning the collection of debts. There are no exemptions, and hence in view of the fact that every emigrant to the United States is able to send money home, this is a safe business. Besides, the pickings of the emigration companies enable them to get back part of the funds loaned the emigrant before he sailed. I cannot, of course, prove this state of facts but all the circumstances occur in supporting this view. (For complete °tatement of wages paid in Japan see Appendix.) In confirmation of the statement above quoted, jj that the Japanese Government requires every emigrant to provide sureties for his return in case of need before granting a passport,' may be quoted the folio wing, evidence referred to in the report of the Bureau of Labour statistics for the State of California for the year 1900, from the evidence of a Japanese who conducts an employment agency in San Francisco : Q. Does your government require all Japanese coming to this country to go back ? Don't your papers require you to go back in three or four years, or get leave to stay longer ?—A. Yes, sir, any that come here want to get back as quick as possible. Q. You think that the plague in Honolulu made more Japanese come here ?—A. Yes, I think that is the reason. Q. Why is it?—A. The reason is that a great many labourers have been going to Honolulu, and an order has been issued that no more labourers can go there until the sickness at that place dies out. Some Japanese emigration societies promised to send the labourers to Honolulu, and when they could not be sent there they were sent here instead. The emigration societies got a commission from each boy, and do not like to pay it back. .Q. How much commission?—A. $5. Q. For how long is your passport issued ?—A. I would have to ask the consul to renew it. Q. Does not your government command you to come back, or have your passport renewed ?—A. They sometimes stay without getting new passports. In my passport ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 333 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 there is no time stated; came as a student. They are more strict with labourers. When they go back they are punished. The Commissioner of Labour for the State of Washington, in his report dated January 7, 1900, referring to this class of immigration, says : Asiatic immigration to the United States has assumed such proportions, and the certainty of its constant increase, unless something is done to stop it, is so self-evident, that what to do to prevent this subtle ruinous conquest of our American working men and women upon the Pacific coast has now become a question of such importance that this report would not be fulfilling its purpose did it not present the matter to you for your consideration So long as this class of immigration was limited to the number who, of their own volition and means, came to our shores, their presence could not be said to be a public menace, but when they began coming by the shipload, with not a woman or child accompanying them, the thoughtful, patriotic American had to look for other reasons than those which prompt the white man to leave his native land in Europe and come among us The Asiatic does not come here to become an American f I know this from personal inquiry. According to the strictest meaning of the term, he is here as an exploiter; neither does his presence here, when measured by the attending consequence to our own people, constitute an equal exchange for that which he receives Certain legal persons which the American people have created say they must have these Japanese in order to carry on their business. I admit that if a few of them are allowed to equip themselves with this class of help the others must follow suit or suffer from an unequal competition, hence in order to be fair and treat all alike we must either allow all to have them or deny the privilege to each. If we allow all to have them it means the displacement of at least five million American working men and women to make room for enough Japanese to do their work. If we allow them proportionate wages to that of Americans, their saving power being so much greater on account of living expenses, this number of alien wage-earners would form a constant and dangerous drain upon our gold supply; while their presence as employees in our industries will tend to a general reduction of wages, which will not stop until an equilibrium is reached between the wages paid in Japan and the United States, plus the cost of coming and going from one country to the other. Long before this condition is reached there will be trouble between the two races which will undo all that has been done in the work of establishing friendly relations in trade and commerce between the respective governments of the two races When questioned as to their purpose in coining here the answer was * to work five years and then return to Japan and buy a ton (one-fourth of an acre) of land and settle down.' Discerning that most of them were boys and young men I made particular inquiry about the amount of money they bad earned in their lifetime, and did not find one who, if he had saved every yen that he had earned, could have had enough to buy his suit of blue and pay his fare on the vessel, to say nothing of having the $30 to flash I>efore the inspector in order to be allowed to land. When questioned as to how they obtained the money they all told the same story of how their father, or some other relative, had mortgaged their little home in Japan to raise the money. Their first earnings going to pay off the mortgage; after that save until they had enough to go back to Japan. From these little men I learned that the craze to get to the United States to earn and save a competency is as widespread and intense throughout Japan as is the desire of Americans to obtain a bonanza gold placer claim in Alaska. Yet they no more intend to spend their lives here than do our people intend to live and die in Alaska, and on these grounds I doubt very much if they are entitled to be classed as immigrants; however, they were able to comply with every requirement and must be allowed to come in. Of those who come in via British Columbia I am convinced that a large majority are contract labour slaves. Of the wisdom or good policy of educating Japanese students in this country to fit them to work both ends of a contract labour bureau by which they barter in the flesh and blood of their fellow Japanese I am in serious doubt. 334 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 WAGES PAID IN JAPAN. The following rate of wages paid in Japan is quoted from the Report of the United States Commissioner above referred to :— r. ,. August, 1897. Occcupation. ° <0 Carpenters 60 Sawyers 70 Cabinet-makers 70 Shoemakers,—first class 120 second class 80 third class j 50 Tailors,—Japanese style 40 Foreign style,—first class 150 "second class 100 third class 80 Blacksmiths 80 Ship carpenters,—first class 80 second class 70 third class 60 Gardeners 50 Coolies fi • • • 40 (In estimating the wages as given above it must be borne in mind that it is given in Japanese. A sen is a tenth part of a yen, and a yen is equal to about 50 cents of our money.) The following table from the report of the California Bureau of Labour Statistics gives the wages paid in Japan in 1897. It is said that wages in Japan had greatly increased within the several years prior to this date. Wages in Japan, 1897—(In Canadian Money.) Occupations. Blacksmiths. Brickmakers Carpenters. . Fishermen... Gardeners Joiners Labourers Labourers, agricultural (male)... Labourers, agricultural (female). Sawyers Servants, domestic Servants Ship carpenters . Shoemakers Shoemakers, Japanese shoes Stone-cutters., Tailors, European clothing. Tailors, Japanese clothing.. Wheelwrights....: Day. 24 28 244 191 231 22| 17- 15 9£ 25 25 23 19 27i 29 181 20| Month. $ cts. $ cts. 1 41 0 791. (For full list see Appendix.) From the above list it will be noticed that the wages of labourers is 17 cents, and farm labourers, 15 cents, a day. Domestic servants, $1.41 per month, servants, 79£ cents a month, fishermen, 19^ cents a day. These are the principal classes who come to Canada. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 335 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Gin Kanga, employed on the ' Empress of China,' was born in Japan, referring to the Japanese who came over on the * Empress of China,' says: They come from the southern part of Japan, beyond Kobe. I think most of the people are fishermen over there. Those who work in the woods here are in Japan, farmers. Farm labourers in Japan are very cheap. I cannot tell you for sure, but I think $5 or $6 a year of your money, and supply them with food, clothing and houses to live in. On many of the farms they work on shares, one-fourth or one-sixth of the produce for working it. I think somebody must put the money up for them to come here,—the emigration office. S. Fuseya, a Japanese tailor, Yictoria, stated that: In Japan tailors are paid from 20 to 30 yen a month, that will be about $10 or $15 a month here. Living is very cheap in Japan. It costs a common labourer to live in Japan about 7 yen a month. It costs here about three times what it costs there. The wages of a common labourer is about 15 or 20 cents Canadian money, and it costs him about *l\ cents a day for his living. THE IMMIGRANT AT HOME. Alfred Dyer, journalist, who travelled through China and Japan for four years in -connection with his profession, said : Referring to Japanese restriction I may say that an European cannot travel in Japan outside the treaty ports without a passport. JTor instance you cannot travel from Kobe to Hong Kong without producing your passport before you can secure your railway ticket. That regulation was enforced in 1895. It does not matter what your business is. The Japanese are very willing to learn. They do not restrict an Englishman as much as one would think, and they employ a great many outsiders. It is a matter of common knowledge that all the cashiers of the principal firms throughout the towns are Chinamen. The Chinese bear such a reputation for uprightness in money matters, which as far as I know is most thoroughly deserved, that they are employed in nearly all the business houses and banks in Japan. There the business man places his reputation for honesty and uprightness far above anything else. In business matters I would trust a Chinaman as much as I would a white man. The Japanese do the same where they would not trust their own people. A Japanese village belonging to the same class as the Chinese would be nattier and prettier. They are not as substantial, but they are cleaner, nattier, flimsier and prettier. They have more rooms and are built of cheaper material, and they can afford to have more rooms. When they get into other situations they have not much to lose if they have to leave a house. I think a Japanese house is distinguished by the want of furniture. The Japanese sleep on mats. The Chinese go in more for beds. I much prefer the Chinese to the Japanese. They are strictly honest, and as to' virtue they are very much better. THEIR HOMES. The Rev. Dr. Wiley, one of the bishops of the Methodist Episcopal Church in the United States, who published a record of his observations in China and Japan in 1879, says: Among the masses of the people their wants are few and easily supplied. Their homes are very simple, and their furniture very limited and cheap, and their clothing scant and inexpensive. The house is built of wood, light and airy, and generally only one storey high. They are partitioned into rooms, not by permanent walls, but by sliding frames or folding screens, so that they can alter almost at will the size and shape of the rooms. The floors are covered with mats made of straw and rushes, and several inches thick, so that they serve at once for seats, after the peculiar fashion in which the Japanese sit, and for beds—a Japanese simply folding himself in his outer coat, and stretching himself on the matted floor, resting his head on a peculiarly shaped pillow. The window frames are all moveable, filled with oiled paper instead of glass. The furniture of the house is on the same simple plan. A Japanese, no matter what his rank or wealth, has but little furniture. The room looks always bare and empty. A few shelves hold some cups and saucers, and there are several small trays and stands. There are no 336 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 chairs, and the tables are low, small and plain. As to the kitchen, one or two small moveable stoves, a few pans of metal, and some brooms are all that are needed. Everywhere, however, you will admire the cleanliness observed in these homes. Marriage is universal. The great problem which disturbs so many in western countries, how to keep a wife and home, being unknown here. Their future house is taken, containing three or four little rooms, in which clean mats are put. Each then brings to the housekeeping a cotton stuffed quilt, and a box of wearing apparel for their own personal use, a pan to cook the rice, a half dozen large cups and trays to eat off, a large tub to bathe and wash in, and the great problem of home and family is solved. A witness stated that an ordinary Japanese house would cost about $20, built of wood and thatched. Another witness stated that the Japanese village is flimsier than the Chinese; they are more artistic, cleanlier, nattier and have more room. UPON ARRIVAL IN BRITISH COLUMBIA. Dr. Alfred T. Watt, superintendent of quarantine for British Columbia, said : The Japanese go back a great many of them and stay over the winter. They come over here and make enough money to take them back to Japan, and keep them comfortable until the next season. I believe they have been brought over here for $7 a head. It is more than that now. Tramp steamers brought over very large numbers. That is the lowest price. About $30, I think, is the usual price. They do not bring their families. Two or three Japanese in every hundred bring their wives here. The emigration is induced by companies. They furnish them, sometimes, with European clothes. When they come here the Japanese clothing is cast off. |||| Q. Do you mean that those Japanese who come here are brought here by any companies on this side who contract to bring them over and furnish their labour to people ?—A. I do not believe that. Q. What you mean is that certain persons in Japan make it "their business to furnish intending emigrants with information, with the necessary outfit of European clothing, and all that sort of thing ?—A. Yes. Q. When the individual comes here he is on his own hook ?—A. He is looked after by the agents of the companies here who induced him to emigrate. Q. You do not consider he is forced in any way 1—A. No. Q. You do not consider that disadvantageous to this country ?—A. No When they are indoors they very often wear Japanese costumes. I believe they purchase their clothing from ordinary stores. They bring an outfit with them to last them for some time, then they go to the ready made clothing stores. I have seen them at meals, eating rice, fish and some kind of vegetables. They like to have their dried fish and salted fish that come from Japan, and with their own fish they like to have their own rice and their own preserves. I know that a great quantity of these food stuffs is brought from Japan. I am in a position to say a large quantity of food stuffs come over for the consumption of the Japanese, and I do believe the Japanese purchase more from Europeans than the Chinese do. When they come through by the quarantine station we have trouble in getting them to use the water closets. The Japanese I think understand matters relating to sanitation in their own country. They deal very vigorously with any epidemic disease. The Japanese understand that. They adopt vaccination against smallpox. The ones that came last year were mostly from the farming class. There were a certain number of fishermen as well. They wear their own clothing on the vessel. They have a full suit orSEuropean clothing they put on as soon as they j arrive here in almost every case. They nearly all have a few dollars, up to $40. Of course, of the Japanese who pass through the quarantine, a great many of them are V bound for American ports, and all those have $30 in gold with them \ that is to meet the requirements of the American law. I do not know whether it is their own money or whether it has been supplied to them. They all have the Japanese kemeno or gown, a quilt or blanket and a suit of European clothes. They are nearly all young men from 16 to 30. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 037 Provincial Immigration Officer for Yancouver Island, SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Q. Did you ascertain whether they come to settle permanently in the country or with a view to returning to their own country at an early date ?—A. Well, they come- over here expecting to get work and expecting to make a competence in a short time^ In the course of last year the Japanese were veiy much deceived by the emigration companies. These companies represented to them that they would soon make money here in working on railways and so on. I think they have been induced to sell what property they have and invest in tickets to come here. I think they pay their own way. I consider they are apparently more like our own people. They dress in European clothing, but you find in the boardnig_houses where they live—there are three or four Japanese boarding houses in the city—there~they will put on the Japanese costume and sitting around in their own houses. They put on Japanese costume and eat food prepared in much the same way as it is prepared in Japan. They live on rice and fish principally. Large numbers live in one house. They live and sleep very much the same here as in their own country. The Japanese do not crowd together in the same sense as the Chinese are crowded. They do not all live in the same quarter. The Japanese are congregated in certain houses, large boarding houses, a large number sleeping in one room; I think scarcely as crowded as the Chinese. Of course the Japanese in^ Yictoria is more of_a_floating_population; they come and go away again. They go out to farms and canneries and wherever they can get work in good weather and come back here in the winter-time! TheOTapanese work for less than you would think of offering to a white man. I think their wages are lower than the Chinese; at least they were this last winter, because great numbers of Japanese came here and there was little or no work for them. That was attributable to misrepresentations made by emigration agents. Few Japanese have arrived since last August or September (than would be 1900). At that time the Japanese Government stopped the issue of passports) to Japanese emigrants. William Harrington Ellis, said : As. immigration officer I have been enforcing the Provincial Immigration Act, generally termed the Natal Act. This Act does not affect the Chinese, as their entry into Canada is provided for by the Dominion Immigration Act. Japanese immigration has practically ceased since the beginning of the year; have only issued eight certificates of entry during that period, and several of these were issued to naturalized British subjects. Have refused admission to three Japanese who were deported by the steamship carrying them here. Am given to understand the Japanese Government are not issuing passports to subjects desiring to enter Canada. Japanese passengers destined for Puget Sound ports are still present on Oriental liners. Coasting and Trans-Pacific steamers will not book Japanese from a foreign port to British Columbia unless they have first proved their ability to comply with the terms of the Act. I consider Japanese cleanly in hafoits, industrious and intelligent. I believe them more dangerous competitors in the business of the country than the Chinese. They adopt European dress and food and conform as much as possible to the customs of the country. As a race they_ believe they are capable of taking an equal place among the civilized nations of the world. They are more aggressive than the Chinese, and if permitted to enter this country without restriction, would in the course of time become a considerable portion of our business and working community, and would undoubtedly insist upon becoming enfranchised. I do not consider them desirable as citizens from the fact that they do not or cannot assimilate with the white races. At present they, like the Chinese, occupy.a special place in the community. They furnish labour at a price with which the white labourer cannot compete. They do not support families, and trade almost altogether among themselves. They are meagre contributors to the general welfare and a positive detriment to the white labourer. Their advantage is altogether from the standpoint of capital. I am given to understand many Japanese immigrants come to Yictoria and Yancouver as being convenient points from which to enter into the United States. If refused entry to that country they will, return to this, whereas if they sail direct from Japan and were refused entry thev would be returned to Japan. 54—22 338 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The Great Northern, Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific Railway systems employ Japanese in large numbers as track repairers, the Great Northern employing alone nearly 4,000. The Oriental labourer cannot be replaced by restriction or head tax. An acceptable immigrant must be brought in, and a practical and earnest effort is necessary to bring him. The coast of the Eastern Maritime Provinces and those of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland, furnish fields from which to draw a desirable immigration. The peoples of these countries are engaged in callings similar to those which prevail on the British Columbia coasts. To bring them in in sufficient numbers it would be necessary to advance fares and expenses and provide locations for them before arrival. This would entail a large expenditure, but there is an excellent source from which the necessary funds can be secured, namely, the head tax imposed on Chinese. It would be but reasonable for the Federal and Provincial Governments to devote the large amount received from the head tax to securing an element which would in time replace the Oriental in British Columbia. As this province is the only sufferer in the competition of this undesirable immigration, it would be but common justice to expend the money received from such source in providing means for not only staying the tide of Oriental immigration, but in replacing that class already here. I consider that laws preventing their employment in mining and other industries only allays the evil as far as those special branches of labour are concerned. Q. The Provincial Act of 1900, assuming that that is held to be constitutional, would that be sufficient check on the Japanese ?—A. Yes, if it were constitutional and was acted on I think the Japanese question is not so acute here, in a sense, as the Chinese question. I do not think the presence of the Chinese and Japanese tended to drive white people from here, or from settling here. I am speaking of what might be termed the navvy class. That class did not show a desire to remain in the ■country as settlers; they simply went off to where they could secure the same class of labour. The Japanese are still coming in on the steamers, not in great numbers, but from 12 to 25 on a steamer. I do not think any large number of Japanese enter without the test being applied. The only way it is possible for the Japanese to enter the province without the officers being acquainted with the fact is by smuggling them from American ports and landing them at the cordwood camps. Officials have been appointed at all places of entry into the province. Clive Phillips Wolley, formerly Executive Sanitary Officer for the Province : Q. Have you had any experience so as to enable you to speak of the Japanese ?— A. I have had very little. I am. very much prejudiced in favour of the Japanese. I do not want him, but I think it better to have him than the Chinese, if we have to have ^either of them. Q. For what reason ?—A. For the reason he seems to be willing to live more or less the white man's life. He will live as a white man does, and he is cleaner in his surroundings. He is more like our own people in assimilating to our manners and customs and modes of living, and he is more cultivated, and he is more manly and gentlemanly. With reference to the Japanese, where I was in mining camps and elsewhere "there were not any Japanese, therefore I cannot speak of them from personal contact with them in their work, but I have seen the Japanese working on farms and building boats on the Fraser river. I have seen them on the Island farms, between this and Yancouver. I have also seen them on the farms around Duncan. Two Japanese will do as much work as one white man if you watch them enough. They are harmless little chaps. Q. What do you say as to their habits of cleanliness % Are they better than the Chinese in that regard 1—A. I only know this, that around the house, as farm servants they are as cleanly as other farm servants. I have never observed their mode of living in cities. I only speak as to that in regard to their working on farms. Q. You say you prefer the Japanese to the Chinese ; why %—A. I would rather have him because he buys our produce, and dresses like ourselves, and seems to be willing to adopt our habits and customs. Q. Do you consider the Japanese as great a competitor, dangerous as a competitor % A Yes, he is a more dangerous competitor with the white man. He adapts himself ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 339 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 more easily to our civilization than the Chinese. The Chinese will do the lowest kind of labour and stick to it; the Japanese will get higher if he can, and he has brain enough to rise into any of the mechanical pursuits. James Wilson, Sanitary Inspector of the City of Yictoria, said : With reference to sanitation, I do not think there is much difference between the Japanese and Chinese. I think they do a good deal more harm than the Chinese. They will work cheaper than, the Chinese, and they get into the white man's ways quicker. They are clean, so far. I had to take them to Court several times to get them to understand and carry out the sanitary laws. They adopt the dress of the white man and their hair is cut different to the Chinese. There is not a Japanese town the same as Chinatown. There are only three or four Japanese boarding houses now and some few in them. There were nine- i teen or twenty Japanese boarding houses last summer. I have seen forty-five of them in one room in one night. We had to take them to Court and fine them for breaking the health by-law. Breaches of the by-law are not frequent. I have no trouble since I took four different parties into Court. They get to understand the law. The food they use looks some- thing like the Chinese,—pretty much the same. A good deal of that comes from Japan. Only a few of their women come out. They will be more ready to take up the habits of the country than the Chinese. They keep the price of labour down more than the CJhinese. A few of them take to individual kousekeeping. In house furnishings they generally have mattresses and a few chairs. They are more inclined to European habits than the Chinese. In the boarding house they use straw mattresses. In one boarding house I found forty straw mattresses. There is more danger of the Japanese driving out the white man in the labour market than the Chinese. They seem to pick up the way to do the work quicker, and they i will tackle anything. They tackle everything, housework and farm work. They work for $5, $6, and $10 a month. I favour their exclusion. There is one laundry house on Fox Street. They keep all kinds of stores. Several of them are tailors, and they have two or three stores for curios and the like, and there is a grocery store. They are not in the habit of keeping excrement and using it like the Chinese. Take the ordinary Japanese and his house is furnished pretty near the same as that of a common white man. They have a desire to become Europeanized or Americanized in their method of hying. The convictions were for temporary overcrowding, and when the convictions ceased the overcrowding ceased. . Dr. Roderick Fraser, Medical Health Officer for the City of Yictoria, referring to the Japanese says: Q. With reference to the Japanese do they congregate in any particular part of the j city %—A. No, they live in any part of the city. They wear European dress. They j occupy ordinary houses. I do not think they adopt the manners and habits and customs of our own people in the matter of dress. I do not think they adopt our food, and the labouring Japanese does not sleep on the saftne kind of bed ; they use a hard bed like the Chinese with a wooden pillow. They live close together. They are equally dirty with the Chinese, the lower class of Japanese is if anything more dirty than the Chinese. In enforcing the sanitary by-laws among the Japanese I have no more difficulty than with the Chinese. For instance, if a house is rented by Japanese in some respectable part of the city it is scon turned into a Japanese boarding house and we very, soon have complaints. They are no better than the Chinese lower class. They employ white physicians exclusively and patronize our hospitals very generally. They make very good patients, and they are ready to submit to any sort of surgical or medical treatment. I . find that even the humblest Japanese labourer puts in all his spare time in trying to learn to speak and read English. Dr. I. M. McLean, Chief Health Officer for the city of Yancouver, said : I do not regard the presence of the Japanese coolies as a menace to public health to the same extent as the Chinese. Typhoid fever is not as common among the Chinese as among the Japanese. The J apanese are a cleanly people so far as ordinary bathing is concerned. They soon get into the way of improvement. The above fairly indicates the nature of all of the evidence taken as to the condition of the immigrant upon his arrival, his habits, modes of life, and compliance with sanitary laws. 54—221 340 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII.. A. 1902 CHAPTER II.—THE FISHERIES AND BOAT BUILDING. Part I.—The Fisheries. It is in connection with the fisheries that the presence of the Japanese has been most keenly felt as competitors with the whites. The following statement shows the total number of licenses issued in British Columbia during the last five years, and to what extent the Japanese have encroached upon this business. Total number of Licenses in British Columbia. Year. 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 Total. To Japanese 3,533 452 4,500 787 4,435 768 4,197 930 4,892 1,892 4,722 1,958 ARE THERE TOO MANY FISHERMEN ON THE FRASER RIVER? u 1st. Opinion of Canners.—Condensed statement. (For fuller statement of canners see Canning Industry, Part I, Chap. XY.) Henry O. Bell-Irving, the manager of the British Columbia Packing Company, that have six canneries on the Fraser, two on the Skeena, one on Rivers Inlet, one in Alaska and one on the Sound, and employ from 1,000 to 1,200 men on the Fraser River, says : I think the river is overcrowded; there are too many fishermen and too many canneries just now. I think it would make it more profitable to the packer if there were •fewer canneries and fewer fishermen. There were larger profits made in the past than are made now. A certain number will have to drop out. I think the fisheries have pretty nearly reached their maximum. The number of canneries increased, and the , number of licenses for each had to be reduced, and this raised a friction, and the government four or five years ago said, we will grant licenses to everyone who will pay for them. The number of boats is far in excess of what it ought to be, but owing to the competition of canners each increases the number of boats, and if one does the other has to, or he does not get his share of the fish. ' The Japanese as fishermen are not very reliable, but I think they will favourably compare with the whites, because they work hard when the fish are scarce. I have always held that a man should only look to fishing as a means of increasing his comfort, and enable him to clear a nice claim for himself on the banks of the river, but many of them look upon it as their right to make enough out of the fishing to keep them the rest of the year. Fishermen could farm the most of the year, and the fishing would better enable them to get along. That would have to be done by slow growth. I think if two-thirds the number of fishermen were employed on the river that have been for the last few years, it would be enough. If it could be accomplished it would be desirable for all parties. If the number of whites and Indians at present employed all came they would fill the bill, and the Japanese could be dispensed with. Combine this with a reduction of the canneries to half, and it would bring about a better condition of affairs on the river. Frank Burnett, president of the United Canners, Limited, says : I think there are not enough whites and Indians to do the fishing on the Fraser. There are not too many nets and boats. I think there are enough Japanese here now. I do not think there are too many canneries; I do not think there are too many fishermen. Every four ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 years we have a good run. I believe in free trade. It is a case of the survival of the fittest, I would not impose the same restriction on the Japanese as on the Chinese, I think, because they assimilate more easily and are less undesirable people. I think I would impose a restriction upon them ; how much is hard to say, it should be settled between the Governments, as far as the Japanese are concerned. When we buy fish from white fishermen we buy from them individually, but when we buy from Japanese fishermen we buy through Japanese bosses. We generally advance a little to them in the beginning of the season, and they are morally bound to sell us their fish. At the beginning of the season the Japanese boss will come in and say he has so many boats, and on the strength of that we will advance him so much, principally in the way of supplies. We give orders on stores, and give very little money. It is difficult to get at whether or not the Japanese boss may own the boats himself and hire the men. We simply let the contract to the boss. We let our own boats out on shares. We have about a hundred boats in the three canneries, The Japanese have built quite a few of our boats. We do not build boats for the sake of hiring Japanese. We hire them to either Japanese or whites. We sometimes sell the boats to the fishermen. Sometimes the Japanese builder supplies fishermen. We have about three hundred Japanese boats. That means six hundred Japanese for two canneries. In one cannery we have not Japanese at all. We have twenty or thirty white men in these two canneries ; in the other all white men and Indians. We would rather hire white men, that is outside of sentiment altogether, and for this reason,—each contract made with a white man is for himself individually. If he goes back on his contract we only i • ** lose a small amount, whereas if a Japanese boss goes back on his contract it means the loss of several thousand dollars to us. i Charles F. Todd, of Yictoria, engaged in the wholesale grocery and salmon canning business, said : Increased canneries demanded increased number of fishermen. I don't know of any white fishermen out of employment by reason of the presence of Japanese. There are not enough white men to keep the canneries running without the Japanese. Many of them do nothing after the season is over. In winter there is a super-abundance of labour. There are too many in the canning business. If the Chinese were not here we would not have had so many in the business. If we could not have Japanese we would be at a great disadvantage. Alexander Ewen, of New Westminster, who has resided in British Columbia for thirty-six years, and been engaged in the cannery business since 1870, says: White men are not so anxious to fish how. There are not half enough boats for the full capacity of the canneries. The number of fish caught and put on the market is not decreasing, but the cost is increased, and the number of fish caught by each fisherman has decreased. The white men cannot make the money they did formerly. There was a. limit on the Fraser once to five hundred boats to ten or twelve canneries, and the license was $20. The limit was taken off, and the licenses limited to British subjects. I don't think the number of canneries would be here but for the cheap labour. The oanners think there are too many canneries, and the fisherman think there are too many fishermen. The white fishermen have dropped away. The Japanese are taking their place. If we had as many fish as in 1897, or if we had any guarantee of what it would be, it would be easier to do the fishing with a thousand boats or less, than with three thousand boats. If the Japanese had not come in the industry would have been out of existence. With the number of canneries in existence now you could not get along unless there were more boats. The number of canneries has doubled within twelve years. A great many white men within the last three years have become not so anxious to fish as they were. They will not leave work at which they are earning $5 a day to .go fishing, and a great many of them have dropped out. It was not from the number of boats, but from the number of fish in the river. I expect the cost of production now compared with ten years ago is about double what it was then. The cost of catehing fish is more expensive, because the fishermen have to have more expensive boats to go to sea after the fish. In the river they use ■cheaper nets. 342 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION Most of the Norwegian and Swede fishermen on the other side have their 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 A great many of the fishermen are dead broke all the time. Some of them have saved a good deal of money on the Fraser river. Under existing circumstances the canneries could not be carried on without oriental labour. Within the last three or four years they could not exist without Japanese fishermen, homes here. Before the Japanese came here we had a great number of fishermen from the State of Washington. I said the industry was over-done. I cannot have said there were too many fishermen. While there are so many canneries they want more fishermen. The fishermen do not come from the Sound now as they did before^ but they would come, I have no doubt, if they could get work. If the number of canneries were reduced there would not be so many fishermen wanted unless the canneries were to double their capacity. If the number^ of fishermen were reduced by one-half, leaving the canneries as they are, the effect would be that the canneries to run properly and get a reasonable interest on the money invested, would have to reduce the price of fish. James Anderson, whose cannery is in the city of New Westminster, said : I cor- roborate the evidence of Mr. Ewen as to the labour question, what it costs in machinery and the like. I might differ with him a little about the number of canneries. We could do with fewer canneries, but the people who put their money into them, that is their concern. We require the Japanese in order to get fish, to keep running the canneries. I have never employed them. I have employed white men and Indians exclusively; at the same time it might become necessary for me to employ Japanese. We are up the river a little more than Others, and we have more control over the labour there. We employ farmers up there as fishermen. Norwegians and Swedes used to come here from the American- side, but the new regulation of issuing licenses only to British subjects will bar these men out. I think the new regulation barred men out, and that was what led to the Japanese coming; that is only my opinion ; I have never employed Japanese. My opinion is to get rid of Chinese and Japanese, if the conditions will allow it. I think you can do better without the Japanese than without the Chinese. David Douglas, bookkeeper at the Deas Island Cannery, said : The head man of the Japanese came to us and asked to be allowed to supply us with so many fishermen. Any Japanese who came to us had to be able to produce citizen's papers, and show that they were prepared to fish. The Japanese live in one house, and the man who can speak English the best generally does the business for the others. We have two contractors, Japanese; one supplies us with twelve boats and the other fifteen. Canners are careful in making advances to Japanese, so there will be no risk. We certainly never advance money to bring them from Japan. I have seen Japanese go out in a fishing boat that I did not think was under their license. He (the license holder) would probably be sick and they would go out and handle the boat for him, I have seen whites do the same thing. They are treated the same as white fishermen. We credit their fish to the license number of the boat, and if they came from a certain house, we make all our settlements with the head man. Every man who has a fishing boat is there when the settlement is made, and sees that the settlement is just. We refused to take fish from a fisherman who had made arrangements with another cannery, and owed them. In one case the Japanese who ran the house owned the gearing. In another case there were several brothers who owned all the gearing in the house. Both Japanese houses salt fish. One crew moved up to the cannery in the fall and salted fish there, buying from white fishermen and others on the river. Lee Soom,. a Chinese merchant, of New Westminster, with a capital of $30,000 invested in the cannery business, employs 100 hands, says : The fishermen say there are too many boats,•—I think not too many boats, but too many canneries. 2nd. the fisherman's views. Charles Kilby, of Nanaimo, who has fished on the Fraser for many years, says : It is almost impossible for a white man to make anything at fishing on account of the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 343 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 river is over- have tried over- great Japanese employed, The Japanese obtain the licenses illegally. The crowded with boats and nets. There are altogether too many. The unsanitary condition of Japanese and Chinese in Steveston has been the cause of a large number of deaths among the Japanese from typhoid, and other diseases peculiar to themselves called'berri-berri. They are also doing the work of the white fishermen which we used to do during the winter months, when the salmon fishing was over. Tne white fishermen used to supply cordwood to the canneries, and clear the land and cut shingle bolts. The Japanese do that now, and in fact they have almost monopolized the unskilled labour that the white fisherman used to work at during the winter. Japanese have also gone largely into boat building on the Fraser river. I tried to obtain work outside of the mines, and I found that in almost eveiything I I had to compete with the Japanese. During the fishing season the river is crowded with nets. There are altogether too many licenses issued, and the majority of them are issued to Japanese. I was one of the delegates from the Fishermen's Union to the Canneries 'Association, and in that interview it was admitted it would be better for the canners and for the fishermen if the number of licenses were restricted. Alfred Tetterman, of Yancouver, fisherman, said : In the early days when there were no Japanese the whites could make a good living, but they occupying the space in the waters it lessens our catch, or even if we caught as many, the canneries cannot get away with them. Four years ago we were limited by the canneries to 100 fish a day, and we had to throw 500 overboard for ten days. The number of fish is divided among so many, there are only a few for each, and when we have a big run the canners can't take care of them. I could not fish last season, so many Japanese, I thought I could not come out even. It is aggravating to a man to be pushed out by Japanese. We don't want so many, and the canners don't want them. I'd rather starve together with my own race. John L. Anderson, Yancouver, engaged in fishing for eleven years, said : The fish- ing in the river is overdone by an over-supply of fishermen of different nationalities. There are too many. We have to set our nets too near together. The Japanese take the place of white fishermen. The French-Canadians would come in. They would help to populate the country. They live well, too. I say our government issues too many licenses by one-half. We can't set half the number of nets within the space allowed. The nets are set within fifty feet of each other on the Fraser river. I think there are white men and Indians to fill all the space. From a fisherman's standpoint the government issues too many licenses for the Fraser river. I think the nearest that nets should be set to each other should be 1,500 feet. It would be better for this country and for the fisheries at large if there were not more than one-half of the present licenses issued. Japanese are fairly good fishermen from what I could see of them. I do not believe that the market has much to do with reduction in the price that is paid for the fish to the fishermen. It is just the canners' action. Last year they simply starved the men into their prices, at least they finally starved the Japanese into or drove them into it, between them and the militia. On Puget Sound canners generally own the traps. The fish caught in the traps do not cost them as much as the fish caught by net fishing. They pay a higher price for fish on Puget Sound than they do on the Fraser River. If there were a reasonable number of fishermen here, I would be satisfied with fifteen cents all through the season. There are fully as many white fishermen here now as there were in years past, but they are divided up among the canneries more. I say that instead of the Japanese, the government or someone should bring in white men, and the country will be benefitted all over. I belong to the Fishermen's Union. The cannerymen do not appear to manifest any disposition to prevent the overcrowding of nets on the river, because every year they are taking more boats to the canneries. They rather encourage than discourage the increase. I do not think it will last five years more before there will be very few white men fishing on the river. They are fast decreasing in numbers now. I consider a white man at $1.50 a day as cheap as a Japanese at $1 to work in the lumber mills or any other industry except the fishing. In fishing the Japanese are just as able to catch as many as the white man if he pays B «i 344 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 attention to it. They ought to be excluded altogether. They are certainly a greater menace than the Chinese. They build boats and sell them to the canneries for $60, such a boat as I have got $150 for some time ago. John McCarthy, contractor and foreman for Stevedore, says : I fish every year. The Japanese have overrun the fishing business. They are so thick you cannot get your nets out. There are too many licenses. I believe there are enough whites and Indians. I have a family here. There is little encouragement to rear a family here, because there is no place for boys. I think the whites are badly treated. Peter Smith, for fourteen years a fisherman on the Fraser, a half-breed of Indian descent, says : In the first place British subjects are driven out into the deep water. The Japanese are taking the white man's place in fishing. I was born here, married and have three children". My complaint is the Japanese have more rights than whites and Indians. I went to get a license, and he asked me if I was British born. A white man has to attend personally, but a Japanese can send a boss, and my own brother could not get it through me. There <=are too many fishermen on the Fraser River. It is overcrowded with Japanese. It has been that way foF the last three years, because there is not space enough between the nets. The best fishing grounds are crowded. I fish the year round. If any more Japanese come in there will be bloodshed. I used to get five cents a pound for smelts and three cents a pound for herrings. Now the Japanese cut that down to two cents for smelts and one cent .a pound for herring. I have been driven out of the business. I cannot make my living out of it. John Ibbotson, fisherman, New Westminster, said : There are too many licenses and too many Japanese. . Limit the licenses, and give the preference to the settlers. John Scott, farmer and fisherman for fifteen years, has a wife and three children, said : The longer I have been here the harder I have been pushed. I used to think this. was a white man's country, and one of the best under the sun. I am discouraged on the fishing question. In gardening they have me to do what the Chinaman can't. I want to see the country prosper, but I don't want to feel that I am being~~squeezed out of my inheritance. I am an Englishman, and I came out when I was 17 years old. George Henry West, fisherman, New Westminster, since 1894 on the Fraser, said: There are too many fishermen on the river. There were sufficient whites and Indians. Hezekiah Stead, New Westminster, followed fishing for nine years until the last two seasons, puts it in this way: I think there are too many fishermen on the river. The fewer the fisherman, the more fish they could catch, and the cheaper they could sell the fish to the canners, and be more successful all round. .John Kendall, New Westminster, says : I am supposed to be a fisherman, and try very hard to be, and it is a failure. The trade is monopolized by the Mongolians. There are too many fishermen on the river. I am a Newfoundlander by birth : am married and have five children, four boys and one girl, oldest 12. I am over $200 behind what I was last year this time. If the Japanese and Chinese still continue to come I have got to leave or starve. I am British to the backbone. I wish to stay under the British flag. When the fishing season is over I find it the hardest task I ever had in my life. I find these Mongolians have me coralled, the same as they have in fishing. I apply at various places, sawmills and factories, and I may say every place, seeking employment. In three years I have worked about four months outside of fishing. I got a little work outside the city. Last year I tried the same means of cutting shingle bolts or cordwood. I found I could get no job. I saw shingle bolts and wood being cut by Chinese and Japanese. I applied to Mr. Jardine and Mr. Scott to buy shingle bolts, but they refused. There were Japanese working there. A dozen people asked me to write them in Montreal; I wrote one or two and told them- not to come. Nicholas John Coulter, the vice-president of the Grand Lodge of the British Columbia Fishermen's Union, born in Jersey, Channel Islands, says : With a smaller number of licenses the whites and Indians could catch more each, and be able to supply the canneries. They can take every fish out of the river that ought to be taken out, and could afford to sell them less, and both would prosper. Patrick Cain, New Westminster, a fisherman from New Brunswick, says : I think white men and Indians could catch all that could be handled. Half the boats would •catch as many as are caught now. p ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 345 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Thomas Sheaves, New Westminster, says : I have been fishing here for twelve years. Till the last three years I could make a living, and a good living. Since that I can't do it. I can't pay for the gear and make any wages at all; cannot catch the fish ; too many fishing. There are too many Japanese got in here the last two or three years. I came from Newfoundland. Have a wife and three children ; live here; have a house and lot of my own. I like the country. It is just this way, either the Japanese have got to get out or we have got to get out. George Mackie, New Westminster, said : The presence of the Mongolians not only prevents immigration of white people, but it drives many who are here out of the country. Men who came from Scotland and Canada are returning to where they came from. A floating population that used to come here only come now in small numbers. We were not in love with them and they stopped coming. The restriction of licenses was objected to by some fishermen who were not citizens of the country and who wished to fish here. Since the department made a rule that only British subjects could get a license to fish, subjects who were bona fide fishermen, they have evaded it by manufacturing orientals into British subjects so that they might get licenses. A bona fide fisherman is a man who has had some experience in fishing. The license stipulates he should have his own boats and nets. Most decidedly he should have one to be a bona fide fisherman. I believe a great majority of the Japanese do not •use their own boats and nets. The majority of resident fishermen own their boats and their gearing. The Japanese bosses own the boats that are fished in by Japanese, in the majority of cases. Many other fishermen gave evidence to the same effect; in short, it was their uannimous opinion that the river was overcrowded, and that the white men were being driven out. - 3RD, PROTESTS OF INDIAN CHIEFS. The chief s of the different Indian tribes made request to the Commission that they might be heard upon the question of Chinese and Japanese immigration. This request was readily granted, and as Nanaimo and Yancouver were the more convenient points it was arranged that they might be heard there. A number of the head men, Chiefs of the tribes, attended, and they selected from among themselves certain chiefs by whom they desired to have then grievances presented. Z. Hilton, Chief of the Quamachin tribe in the Cowichan district, said : When first the white people came they took up lands and asked the Indians to work at $2 a day. I was much pleased to get work and get that wage for myself and my family. I had something to depend on, and I bought everything I wanted, and I was pleased at the white people living where I could get the work. When the Chinese came here first they came with nothing at all. They brought no family with them and they broke up everything. In a little while the Japanese Came, and they were worse than the Chinese, and it seems they have no right to stay in the place at all. I ask for something to be done for my people. I cannot get work for my people on account of these being so thick around my place. The reason I have not better clothes is I cannot get work. I have four acres in my farm and cattle and horses. If my people do go fishing the Japanese are always ahead of them. Indians do get work at the canneries, but not as much as they used to get. It used to be 25 cents each for salmon about eight years ago. Last year they got about 20 cents for a short time, and when the run was good the Japanese sent the price down. Before the Japanese came I used to get money and get paid for my work; now I have no show at all to get a living. 300 belong to my tribe of grown up people—about 400 in all. I favour keeping Chinese and Japanese out of the country. I hold the Japanese are the worst of the two. When my friends go to fish the Japanese have hurt them. * The settlers employ the Chinese and Japanese and do not employ the Indians at all. For four years I have got nothing from the farmers. Joe Kuketh, Indian Chief, gave evidence to the same effect. Edward Halbertson said he was much pleased to meet the Commission; that when he used to work on the farm he had steady work all the time and now he cannot get 346 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 regular employment as he used to do because the Japanese and Chinese cause all this trouble, because the Japanese and Chinese put the wages down awful low and that is the reason he cannot get work. Therefore, he brings the complaint to see if the government can do anything for his people. He wants to get his work back. He wants to keep the Japanese and Chinese out of the place. He spends his money here when he earns the money. He feels bad because the Japanese just bring their clothes with them, while he has a wife and family to keep. If this goes on the Indians and whites get no money. He has the same mind towards the Japanese and Chinese as whites have. He makes the same complaint as to the fisheries as Chief Hilton. The Japanese put down wages. No advances this year from the canneries; can't get it now like we used to get it. That's the fault of the Chinese and Japanese. Our people are not willing to work for the price Japanese do. There are plenty of Indians to do all the work if there were no Japanese and Chinese. They used to work in mills but the mills are full of Japanese and Chinese. Jacob Kaksulatza, Indian Chief, said: I go to the Fraser to fish. One time the Fraser River was reserved. We had a piece of land where they used to camp. Lots of white people then and they used to help us. I want the Chinese and Japanese kept out. All the Indians are hard up. There are lots of Indians here. Chief James Harry, of the Squamish Indians, represented seven Indian Chiefs, namely, Chief James Harry, Chief Tom, Chief Harry, Chief Joe, all of the Squamish Indians; Chief Joseph, Capaline River, Chief Casino, Langley, and Chief James Isaac, Port Hammond. He says: The Japanese come to this country, they come too thick altogether. It don't matter where you go you see Japanese. You go to the Fraser River you see Japanese, hundreds in the summer time. You go to Howe Sound, nothing but Japanese. You go to Indian River, just the same, nothing but Japanese. In fishing time we had no chance to fish ourselves, and when we begin to fish we put our net in the boat and we go out to fish. Two or three nights we lost our nets. I lost mine ; the Japanese cut it; I saw it was cut; I saw the Japanese cut it; I caught the man. The Japanese thick on Point Gray; I have no chance to fish, so I can't fish. There are too many Japanese. You see boats three miles out from the coast, nothing but Japanese, and so we cannot make a living. The Japanese kill us; they are killing Indians, killing whites. My people have no chance to make a living. Can't make bread and butter ; no chance to go to work; they are all over; they work for nothing. They began about ten years ago and got thicker, thicker, thicker all the time, and last year too thick altogether. We used to catch 200, 300; we don't now. We used to get 6 cents and 7 cents, but no limit; now canneries pay 18 and 20 cents, but as soon as they are beginning to run they put a limit—first day 200, second day 150 ; that is the lowest limit. Each boat would not get so many. Last summer the highest I got was 150 fish. There are too many fishing on the river. I think you can get any amount of Indians and whites to supply the canneries if you look that way. My people, my father, my grandfather fished on the Squamish River and Fraser River. The Japanese are cutting all the wood we have here in British Columbia and bolts on the north arm, Howe Sound, and here in Yancouver on the west side, and our people have no chance to go to work and cut the cedar. They used to cut the cedar and bolts and wood. The Japanese cut wood for too little—just like for nothing. My people worked in the mills ; now have no chance. The Japanese work for about $15 a month —not enough to buy clothes and keep wife and family. I have a wife and three children. Thirteen and fourteen years ago the Indians got $1.50 and $1.25 working in the mills ; now they get no chance to go to work. The Japanese can live on a tablespoonful of rice and a little perch. We are not the same. I think the Indians and whites as good as the Japanese. The Japanese build boats cheap and make oars. We make sails, boats and oars and everything. Our women get work in the canneries; they get $1, $1.25, $1.15, $1.10, depends on what they do. Boys and girls get work when plenty of fish. We do hand-logging in winter. We do stevedoring, make good wages but not steady. I think you could get enough whites and Indians to do the work. There are a little more than 10,000 Indians, men, women and children, engaged in fishing. Canneries take fishermen just as they come along. Just as many fish now but too many ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 2m SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 boats and not as many fish to the boat. I should say that 2,000 licenses should be granted, but not over 3,000. Good way if government says not so many licenses. The Japanese work for nothing. The Indians want to get fair wages. This is our country, not a Japanese country. Chief Casimil, of Langley Tribe, said : I ask that you should have compassion on me for whatever I tell you. We belong to this country; it is our country. I was born in this country. My fathers have been here long before; that is I am a citizen of this country ; I am here to ask you people to look after this country for us. We are being driven out of the country, as we cannot make a living as we used to do." I wish you to remember whatever I tell you now. The Japanese are getting too many. We cannot get work and cannot get any' money because of the Japanese. Yery few of us can get any food because of the Japanese. I am very glad that you are all taking stock of this, and that you will take it to Ottawa before the head man. That is all I have to say. I wish to express my sorrow; if the government does not look after them they will soon control the land. We got pur land from the government, and we should have a right to fish, but we cannot fish and make a living., . Joseph Isaacs, chief at Port Hammond, was satisfied with what was said, and was not sworn. Chief Joseph, Capilano Creek, said : The Japanese come in so numerous it cheapens labour. They bring down the fish to 3 cents. The Japanese know they don't belong to this country. They make their country good on our money. That is why our country does not improve any. Can't get a good house or make a good living. Twenty years ago we could go out fishing and bring home 200 or 300. There were two canneries. It was good then. A great many canneries now and Japanese came in numerously and things not good. I tell the truth and wish you (the Commissioners) to tell at Ottawa that they take the money out of the country. I am glad to be able to speak. Chief John gave evidence to the same effect. 4TH. OPINIONS OF OFFICIALS. Colin B. Sword, Dominion Government inspector of fisheries for British Columbia, said : The relative number of Indians and whites would be difficult to estimate. The Indians go under white men's names in many cases. Prior to 1889 there were I believe twenty licenses allowed to each cannery. In the first instance I think there was no restriction. In 1889 the number was reduced to ten to canners and traders. In 1900 the regulation was, in respect to ten licenses granted to canners, that the fishermen would have to be registered, and were required to take out licenses in their own names. In 1900 the licenses were still limited to ten to a cannery. Licensees must all be British subjects. The number of licenses given represents the number issued for the whole province. Canners are not permitted to turn over their licenses to Japanese who are not citizens. The fisherman must be a man who is qualified to take out a license in his own name. The Indian does not require to have his name registered. Every one else does. The half breed is treated the same as a white man. I have no means of accounting for the enormous increase in the number of Japanese in 1900. Each one of these licenses respresents a fisherman, and they usually have a boat puller. At present some of them are fishing alone, but in the height of the season they generally have .a boat puller. To register, the fishermen have to attend before the officer appointed to receive them. Fishery guardians are authorized to take registration of fishermen and some others. The personal appearance of the applicant is required in every case. One of the officers last year was under a wrong impression as to that point. In issuing licenses we have no authority to go beyond the certificate of the court that they are naturalized citizens. In several cases we found an attempt was being made to obtain a license on a certificate issued to another man, a Japanese ; in all such cases we refused to issue the license. There did not seem to be any intention to defraud. 348 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 I should think we have too many licenses issued for the necessity of fisheries. I think myself there should be only about one-half the licenses for the Fraser river. I think it is in the interest of the canneries and of the fishermen, and of the fish, that only one-half the number of nets should be used on the river. I say from Point Roberts to Point Gray, if there had been half the number of licenses issued the fishermen would have made more for themselves at a small price for the fish. I have not solved the question as to how that limitation could be had with convenience to all parties. The limitation of the number of licenses was attempted before I had anything to do with the office. If the number of. Japanese licenses issued last year (1,892 licenses) is deducted from the whole number there would be 3,000 licenses left. I think that would have •been a sufficient number to have done all the fishing with the best results to the canners and the fishermen. I think that the number of white men and Indians that can be employed now would be sufficient to take all the fish that would be required. The exclusion or limitation of the Japanese would not detrimentally affect the fishing interest, if the white fisherman and Indians can be obtained in the different localities in sufficient number, in the localities required. All the fishermen personally known to me are men who have settled in the vicinity, but they are a comparatively small proportion of whom I can speak of from personal knowledge. I cannot say if a large proportion of them are men with families. I cannot suggest any arrangement that could 'be made by the government by which the number of fishermen could be limited. The regulation that drift nets shall not be used to obstruct more that one-third of any "river, and kept at least 250 yards apart has never been enforced. The regulation seems to be in regard to set or fixed nets. It had not been enforced before I took the office, and I did not attempt to enforce it. They use drift nets here fpr salmon. I think the Japanese fishermen generally have a Japanese as a boat puller. It might be possible for the number of boat pullers to become qualified as British subjects and account for an increase of licensed fishermen from 930 to 1892 last year. I have no record of licenses issued to Japanese prior to 1896. To reduce the licenses I do not see how it can be enforced as«a matter of legislation or regulation by the" government. No, we could not enforce the regulation in respect to the 250 yards. The nets do not drift at the same rate. The quantity of salted dog-salmon exported by the Chinese or Japanese, would be shown by the reports. These are mostly taken from the custom house records. There were 39 seining licenses issued. None were issued to Japanese. All such licenses are dealt with by the department at Ottawa. Seining licenses at present are supposed to be issued where drift nets cannot be employed. I have no information on the subject. Only one trap license is issued. One for Boundary Bay. I understand the department consider that traps would result in the depletion of fish, and undoubtedly their use would dispense with labour if the traps were in proper places. If you want to employ the men of the country it will be better with gill nets. If you want simply to develop the industry, then it is different. It is very difficult to say; the fishing industry might be developed in such a way as to place men who now make their living at fishing at a great disadvantage. There would not be so many employed. If the number of fish taken now would be sufficient to prevent the depletion of fish it would be no advantage to set traps. I have been a member of the Local Legislature for some years. I would not care to express an opinion as to Chinese immigration. Licenses have to be renewed every year. The objection to the traps is it would leave no fish for the drift men to catch. If you used traps in addition to the present system; if you adopt set nets and traps you could regulate the catch much better. The fish caught by gill nets on this side must have escaped the traps on the American side. Purse seines are illegal in this country. I think this country can be developed in time without this alien race. I think this country would suffer if it lost the canning industry. If cannery men say that the industry cannot be" carried on at a profit without oriental labour I would accept it with an allowance. There is jealousy over the Japanese coming into the fishing business. As regards individual feeling I have not seen anything but what it is friendly enough. Some parts ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 349 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 of the river are more favourable for drift nets than others. Where there are snags the nets will not drift, and the nets are liable to be torn by the snags. Every fisherman pays ten dollars for a license. There were something like three thousand boats fishing on the Fraser River last season, covering about sixty or seventy miles. When a Japanese comes to get a license he has to produce naturalization papers, and to prevent fraud the officer here puts his initials and the year on the naturalization certificate. If it is left to the cannerymen and the fishermen to reduce the number of licenses, and at the same time Japanese immigration is permitted to pour in here, the result would be an increase of Japanese fishermen, and the white fishermen would be driven out. Thomas Robinson, assistant to the inspector of fisheries, New Westminster, said: Up to last year all the licenses were issued in New Westminster. Licenses are issued for the whole province. Some fishermen fish up north and then go south as well. I should think about 75 per cent is a fair estimate of those issued for the Fraser River. The number of licenses issued to canners in 1900 on the Fraser River was 397 ; Rivers Inlet, 50; Skeena River, 75; Naas River, 20; total. 542. In 1899, 157 licenses were issued to canners ; in 1900 the restrictions were relaxed somewhat. The endorsement of the fisherman's name on the license was abolished, making them transferable to any registered British subject. If there is anything in the name of an applicant for a license, or in their speech, which would lead me to suspect that they were of foreign birth, I would demand the production of citizens papers, and I would do the same if I was not personally acquainted with the man. It is very difficult to tell an American citizen. If he denys his citizenship we have no means of proving otherwise. People from the old country do not generally apply until they have been here for some time. They cannot fish until they get citizen's papers. The object is to keep the industry in the hands of our own people. If a fresh immigrant he would first engage in boat pulling until he had the proper qualifications. I had four years' experience on the river as a fisherman. I think on the river the fishing industry is overdone. If there were two-thirds the number of boats it would be better. There are not necessarily too many canneries. With fewer boats they would be able to get as many fish, and it would pay the fishermen better as the canners could take more fish from each boat. In a large run it becomes a question not of how many fish you can catch, but of how many fish you can dispose of. I am not prepared to say that canneries compete among themselves. When there are few fish runnings and there is a demand for canned salmon, of course better prices will rule. The fish are not all caught in the river; a good many are caught outside the river. The American traps get a larger toll out of our fish than most people have any conception of. There is no room for the number of nets inside the river that are at present licensed, and men are forced outside. The conditions at present make it almost impossible to carry out the fishing regulations as to the distance of nets being apart and one-third of the river being left free. A little more than two days in the week for protection would not hurt the fish. The catch has not shown any sensible diminution. Fishing is more or less a game of chance. The permanence of the industry should be of first consideration. I have not seen any particular advantage in the Japanese as fishermen over any other fishermen. Their equipment is practically the same. The objection of white fishermen to them is that they have crowded the people of the country out of their own grounds. The development of the canning industry on Puget Sound has made the conditions on the Fraser River, both for fishermen and canners, more hazardous. I believe their sock-eye type is somewhat larger than ours. The sock-eye type is made up of Fraser River salmon. They use traps and purse-seines. They have no close season until the fish are gone. The waters there are regarded as territorial waters. Within the last seven or eight years the canning industry there has developed more largely. Even-wdth those traps on the other side, I think two-thirds of the number of boats on the Fraser River, would be equal to handle the run of fish. The traps nearest the Pacific Ocean generally get the sock-eyes, before they are caught on the Fraser River. In round 350 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION f 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 numbers, at the end of last month (April), 800 licenses were issued to Japanese, and 200 to whites. I think it was because of some rumour that got abroad among the Japanese that there was going to be some restriction in regard to issuing licenses to them. The government would be justified in discriminating between citizens in issuing licenses if the preservation of the fish was concerned. The preservation of the fisheries in their full strength depends a good deal on the regulation as to the number of fishermen, and I think the American regulations are very important to be considered in that matter. They allow more machinery to be used there. Too many fishermen will result in an injury to the fish, injury to the canneries, and injury to the fishermen. In good runs fewer boats and fewer nets would supply the- demand. In the case of the limitation of the number of fish to canneries in a heavy run, a great number of fish are thrown away. If there were a less number of boats last year they would have got more than the number of fish which would have been warranted. The canners' pack is not the first object. The less the run, the less should be taken put of it. To have 3,000 or 4,000 men who are employed only for a short time, and then looking for odd work, is not in the interest of the community. It tends to keep white settlers out. W. L. Fagan, Provincial assessor and collector for the City of Yancouver, said : There is but one way to drive the Japanese out of the river, and that is by the immigration of some fishing., races from Ireland, Scotland and the Baltic; bring those men here and give them fifty acres each to cultivate. If white men were brought here and given land to cultivate, say fifty acres each, they would soon be able to compete with the orientals. Do not allow them to preempt for some time, charge them but a nominal rent. They would then have small holdings of their own, and in the fishing season they Would go on the river. At present there is no room for immigration ; there is nothing for them to do. If they had land, that would occupy at least two-thirds of their time. I do not think any more orientals would come here as the contractors know the market and will only import sufficient to supply the demand. Those white people are not well off in their own country, and would only be too glad to come here. I would sooner see the white labourer here, even although it took a longer time to develop the country. Fishermen from Ireland, Scotland or the Baltic cannot come in here unless the government assists them. The Japanese have got their places and they keep them as long as they can ; we would have to help the whites to come here. Certainly the government ought to protect our own people If white men can come here and get land and settle on it, it will soon solve the problem of the Japanese on the river. The Japanese do not seem to care about making homes here ; they do not take up land ; they do not seem to care about settling here. They come here and make a few hundred dollars and then go back to Japan when they can get away. There is no contractor, either Japanese or Chinese, will go over to China and Japan and spend money to bring labourers here without there is a market for them. At the time of the rush to the Klondike a great many white fishermen left this country, and the Japanese were here. I do not know how they knew to come here at that time ; what happened to bring them here I will never tell you, but they saw there was an opening here and they came. If you had something to put in their place I would restrict more of the Japanese coming here. I think you could easily get enough fishermen to come here if there were inducements for them to come, which do not exist at present. They wont emigrate here on chance. You cannot show them anything to induce them to come here. It would require the government to take an interest in them and show that interest by restriction of Chinese and Japanese immigration. Most undoubtedly it would be a good regulation to make the Japanese prove that they were British subjects before they got their licenses. I have no doubt many of them have been illegally naturalized.. The Japanese ought to be compelled to appear personally to get their licenses, and they ought to be able to prove that they have been legally naturalized. I would have everything arranged that the fishermen of JBritish Columbia would have proper protection against aliens. A great many of the Japanese fish all the year round. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 351 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 * FRAUDULENT NATURALIZATION PAPERS. The* natural irritation caused by this large and sudden influx of Japanese as fishermen was much aggravated by the fact that there was grave irregularity, if not actual OO %f O O J 3 fraud, in obtaining certificates of naturalization by very many of the Japanese. It appears that the fare from Japan to British Columbia, being very low, large numbers of Japanese have been in the habit of coming out for the fishing season, arriving in April and May, and returning after the fishing season is over. Many of these were engaged as boat pullers for the Japanese fishermen, the regulations not requiring for this service that they should be British subjects. It .appears that these boat pullers were naturalized. It is certain that many of them never resided in Canada for one full year. Some of them may have resided here during the fishing season only for three years, and yet hundreds of these men, who had never in any way complied with the requirements of the law, were naturalized. The Commission took sufficient evidence to establish these facts. It was impossible for them to inquire into every case. A short reference to some of the evidence will suffice. E. W. McLean, notary public, of Yancouver, says: I naturalized quite a number of them (Japanese). My commission was revoked. There was never a Japanese but what was accompanied by another Japanese who vouched for him. I swore the Japanese who vouched. There was no case within my knowledge where there were any naturalized before they were here three years. I naturalized about 208 Japanese between May and July, 1900. They came before the fishing season. They came three, four or five at a time, not ten in a batch. They were accompanied by an interpreter. Half signed their names in English characters, others wrote their names in Japanese. I could not tell that was his name. The oath was read to them by an interpreter, and there was an interpreter's jurat. I had known about a dozen of them for over two years. I took the interpreter's word for it. It did occur to me there might be a fraud on me. I satisfied myself beyond a doubt that they were entitled to be naturalized. I don't now think they committed a fraud. I had not naturalized any before this. Most of these people were boat pullers and had gone to Japan, and were now returning so that they •could get naturalization papers and^go fishing. I had the naturalization forms there. I never had any instructions or orders in council affecting that. A great many go to J O O «/ o Japan and return in the spring. The mass of the other affidavits that were taken were of the same class. I knew in the fall of 1899 a number went to Japan. Nearly every steamer that went was loaded. The passage was about $30. Gin Kanga, smoking room steward on the Empress of China, says : I work on the Empress of China. My run is from Yancouver to Yokohama. I remember that by the Empress 200 Japanese came out for fishing in April, 150 of them returned in September. The fare is about $25 from Yokohama, and $50 to go back, and sometimes $35. I know bv the number of tickets that they are fishermen. Just fishermen and farmers emigrate here. Robert T. Burtwell, dominion fisheries guardian, said: When I received my appointment as fishery guardian, I had to go to Captain McFadden's office ; he was the fishery inspector ; I copied the entries in his book into my book ; I noticed there were a great number of Japanese and others entered as fishermen, who could only have been a very short time in the country; and I noticed them there in the office that many mere children were coming over and presenting certificates claiming to obtain fishing licenses as British subjects. They were not old enough, many of them; I called Captain McFadden's attention to that; I called the attention of the fishermen's union to that fact, and I went to Mr. Bremner, the dominion labour commissioner, and called his attention to it. With reference to the Japanese who came into the office when I was there, I used to go and fetch Mr. Bremner up. He used to interrogate the Japanese ; he would take them up' before the Japanese Consul, and there he would elicit the information. In a great number of cases they had only been a short time in the country, that they had been in all probability prompted by others to come there and perjure in order to obtain these certificates to get licenses. In my presence Mr. Bremner elicited the information that Japanese who had been here for some little time were in the habit 352 AEPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII, A. 1902 of personating other Japanese for the purpose of obtaining licenses to fish ; in this way the matter was brought before Mr. Shimizu, the Japanese Consul. I went to a certain notary public here in Yancouver, Mr. Thicke, I went there with the purpose of getting naturalization papers myself to find out how the thing was done. Q. To examine into the method %—A. To get at the way the thing was done ; to find out the way that naturalization papers were secured, and how the certificates came to be granted. told Mr. Thicke it was imperative I should have my paper in very short order. He said he could manage that very easily, that he had secured a great number, and he showed me quite a pile of Japanese applications that he had on the table. He said he was going to put these through, and he would put mine through at the same time. He asked me if I knew of any others who wanted naturalization certificates ; I told him I knew of several Italians who wished to become naturalized. He said if I introduced any trade to him, he would put them through for the sum of $2, and he would give me a rake-off of 50 cents. So from that I came to the conclusion that the system of naturalizing Japanese and others in British Columbia was perfectly rotten. I may say in reference to my duties as fishery guardian, that I found the Japanese were more prone to fish illegally than the white people or white fishermen. Q. What do you mean by that %—A. They would fish with nets longer than are permitted by law, and they would stake nets in violation of the law, and they would fish during illegal hours ; and I came to the conclusion as a fact, though it was very difficult to trace it, that the Japanese had transferred licenses. . The Japanese are very hard to identify. I considered that the number of nets fishing around the Fraser River was far too many; that there being so many nets around the mouth of the river they drive the fish back and prevent them entering the river, their natural spawning ground; the result of that was, I have seen salmon go past the river and go into some of the little inlets that were dropping ripe spawn in salt water. Q. Now, what was it that lead you to think that there was illegal naturalization of Japanese %—A. From the manner in which I found that the Japanese were being represented by others. One man would come to the notary public and say that a number of Japanese desired to take out naturalization papers ; the notary public would swear him, and then the process would go on; but other irregularities I have no doubt crept in. Mr. Thicke forgot to swear me until I jogged his memory that I had not been sworn. The notary public will then ask the party if he had been three years in the country, and his name and address; he would then make out a form, and he would attend to the rest of it. Q. Is the person you refer to still a notary public %—A. No, sir. Q. Why1?—A. His authority was cancelled by the provincial government after the investigation. Q. Have you ascertained how many of those naturalization certificates were issued to .men who were not entitled to them %—A. There were five parties brought up in one of the courts here, brought before the court by Provincial Constable Campbell, and it was proved that they were not entitled to certificates, that they had not been in the country. The investigation was not a sweeping one, it simply embraced the men brought into court. Mr. Bremner, the dominion labour commissioner, had a list of those who went before the Japanese Consul, and who it was found out were not entitled to be naturalized. A great many of those cases I brought to his notice. Edward Bremner, labour commissioner for British Columbia, said : I was asked by some of the fishermen to make some inquiries at the office where licenses were issued. On questioning some Japanese who appeared with naturalization papers and asked for licenses, I discovered that many of them had not been the required time in the country to get those papers legally. In one case a Japanese had papers where he had only been three weeks in the country. I know personally of three different cases. Out of thirty Japanese who applied one afternoon, not more than four could make any attempt of understanding English. Even those four could speak very little English. I had to employ an interpreter, and notwithstanding the disadvantage, one of them admitted that he had been only two and a-half years in the country at the time, and yet his naturalization certificate was granted the year before. On another occasion out of about ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 353 fifteen questioned through the secretary of the Japanese Consul, two accused of fraud were prosecuted, one was accused of impersonation ; the excuse he gave was that the man whose papers he presented was sick. This was last year, 1900. These were the only cases I investigated. In the case of Sayo Tario Mokogama, I understand from the secretary of the consul that he could neither read nor write in his own language even. o O He admitted that he had only been in the country three weeks. This would seem to show that the man was not perhaps as much to blame as those who had brought him there. The impression I got was that there were a great many cases of fraud. I got possession of this naturalization paper as it was left at the office pending the decision of the fishery officer, whether he would grant the party applying a license or not, and the party never called for it again, that is the original. The name here is Nakakama, and that was handed in, and a certificate applied for by a man who gave his name as* Soy o Tario Nakagama. It would seem there was some mistake made by the notary public. Thomas Robinson, assistant inspector of fisheries, New Westminster, says : Last year it occurred to me that a great many had secured their citizen papers without complying with lawful conditions. My experience with the Japanese is that when they have been here two years they have some knowledge of our language, whereas last year numbers of them did not understand the meaning of ' yes' or * no' but their papers being in proper form as issued by the court, I had no alternative but to recognize them. There were several cases of personation, one last week where a man presented papers as his own, which I proved to be false. He was a Japanese. I took possession of the papers until the proper party applied for them. The papers had been drawn from a bunch. I have had cases of this kind before, but found there was no provision for which action could be taken. They never seem to have taken our fishery regulations very seriously. Mr. A. E. Back, of Yancouver, district registrar of the Supreme Court, since its establishment there, presented a carefully prepared statement on this subject, from which the following extracts are taken : In respects to Naturalization Acts, Naturalization Act, 1870, United Kingdom, provides that: An alien who has resided in the United Kingdom for a a term of not less than five years may apply to one of Her Majesty's principal secretaries of state for a certificate of naturalization. The applicant shall adduce in support of his application such evidence of his residence or service, and intention to reside or serve, as such secretary of state may require. The said secretary of state, if satisfied with the evidence adduced, shall take the case of the applicant into consideration, and may, with or without assigning any reason, give or withhold a certificate as he thinks most conducive to the public good, and no certificate shall not take effect until the (Sec. 7, Naturalization Act, 1870. United appeal shall lie from his decision, but such applicant has taken the oath of allegiance. Kingdom.) Re. North-west Territories.—Section 2, Order in Council, January 29, 1899, provides : His Excellency in Council has been pleased to make the following regulations : Section 2. In the North-west Territories the certificate mentioned in the twelfth. section of the said Act shall be presented to a judge of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, who shall take such measures to satisfy himself that the facts stated in the certificates are true, as shall in each case appear to him to be necessary; and when satisfied that the facts stated in the certificate are true, he shall grant to the alien a certificate of naturalization, authenticated under his hand and seal of the Court. This law in my strong opinion should be applied to British Columbia. In theory the general Act of Canada hereinafter referred to is a proper measure, taking into consideration the need of immigration, but a condition has arisen on this coast which needs the protection of above section 2, giving the judge to whom the J. P.'s or Notary's certificate is presented, the power to take such measures to satisfy himself that the facts stated in the certificate are true; and here I see no reason why, as in the English Act, 54—23 _ 354 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII, A. 1902 power should not be given to the judge to give or withhold a certificate as he thinks most conducive to the public good, with or without assigning any reason. On July 30 last, I inquired of the registrar ef the Supreme Courts at Regina, what measures as a matter of fact the judge did take to satisfy himself. It appears that in addition to the J. P.'s or Notary's certificates an affidavit of some other responsible person as to the good character of the applicant is required. Now, regarding the Naturalization Act of Canada, after consideration in the light of my experience, I see little to complain of. I suspect that there exists an improper and incomplete method of carrying out the Act by the persons entrusted, either through ignorance or inadvertence. I refer to the persons mentioned in section 9, particularly the J. P.'s and Notaries, and in doing so I wish here to say that these persons are possessed of all the skill and intelligence expecte i by the statute delegating the power. I respectfully submit and earnestly recommend the following observations to the Commissioners: Naturalization forms should have marginal notes ; directions to the notary that in the case of a marksman, that the affidavit was first read over and explained to the deponent, and that he appeared perfectly to understand the same ; and in case an interpreter is required that the notary first swear the interpreter to truly interpret. By section 8, the alien must take the oaths of residence and allegiance. By section 10, the alien shall adduce such evidence, &c, as the person before whom he appears requires, and such person on being satisfied with such evidence and that the alien is of good character, shall grant the certificate. Section 8 having already provided for the taking of the oaths of residence and allegiance, section 10 surely requires some additional evidence, it may be much or little, but some must be adduced/without casting any imputation on the honesty of the justices of the peace or notaries. I venture the opinion that no evidence whatever other than the taking of above-mentioned oaths is ever adduced. Now, if I am right in this conjecture, it follows that by last paragraph of section 11, the certificate referred to in section 10, form B, was not properly before the court, and all things had not been done to entitle the certificate to be presented, read and filed of record in the court, and it therefore follows that any certificate of naturalization issued on the evidence of an uncorroborated affidavit has been improvi- dently issued and may be cancelled. The justice of peace or notary's certificate as presented to the court is in appearance proper and valid, and the court would hardly on a mere conjecture direct the justice of peace or notary to be cross-examined, admitting the power to do so. A stop should be put to trafficing naturalization certificates. EXPORT OF FISH TO JAPAN. Ewen W. McLean, Chinese interpreter, said : I was asked to ascertain the quantity of dog fish—what are called dog salmon—shipped last year. I find that in the year 1900 the shipments to Japan of that salted .fish amounted to some 2,200 tons. I got the information from the Japanese exporter, a man named Koronaga. He made the contracts for the Japanese shipping the salmon. He tells me there were 16,000 tons shipped through Dodwell & Co., and 600 tons by the ship Alpha, which was lost upon the coast. They did not ship by the Canadian Pacific Railway. They could not get freight by the Canadian Pacific Railway boats. They shipped mostly from Yictoria, by the American line, for which Dodwell & Co. are the agents. Q. Why wasn't any of the dog salmon shipped by the Canadian Pacific Railway %— A. The Canadian Pacific Railway does not care to ship any of that kind of freight. Q. Why ?—A. Because there is quite a difference I understand in their through freight. I understand most of the fish is put up by Chinese contractors in the canneries. They generally occupy a part of the cannery after the general fishing season is over. I understand that each fish costs about 16 cents; that includes catching and packing. There is no reason why the business should not grow to large proportions. The business should be large here, but last year, on account of the war, they could not get ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 355 SESSIONAL PAPER No.,54 freight from here. I know that quite a number of. Japanese went home from here to join their army, and I know that freight was difficult to get from here. They have been shipping that class of salmon three or four years. They are caught after the regular fishing season is over, by the Japanese. They are an inferior fish. Q. Are the steamers that carry the freight not controlled by the Canadian Pacific Railway 1—A. No, they are under the control of the Northern Pacific, I understand. Their headquarters are at Yictoria, and their general agents or general managers are Dodwell <fc Co. They run in connection with the Northern Pacific. It is an American line of boats. Q. So that this trade, whatever it amounts to, is carried in American waters and the fish are caught and packed by Japanese ?—A. Yes. Q. What benefit do we get from that?—A. Only the small freight to Yictoria, $1 a ton. The salt comes principally from Liverpool and Australia. • The fish are salted and put up in boxes. * They are made at the lumber mills. I cannot tell the value of the fish. That is a new industry; it was started as an experiment by the Japanese some years ago. During the big run of 1897 they salted a good deal of the sock-eye salmon not required by the canneries ; they salt them in big tubs or tanks that they have for the purpose. I think it is an industry likely to grow to large dimensions. The canneries do not seem to have facilities for salting sock-eye salmon as the Japanese. I think Japan is a big market for fish. Fish going from here would have to compete with fish caught in Japan by cheap labour. I don't think there is a great deal of deep-sea fishing £n Japan. A great part of the fishing is coast fishing. Where we have one fishing boat they have thousands. There are so many fish easily caught on the coast there that there is little or no necessity for deep-sea fishing. They catch fish with lines there generally. They have no such thing as our large runs of salmon. There is abundance o %/ «/ o o • of fish in Japan but not of the kind we have here. Thomas Robinson, assistant to|the fishery inspector, said: In 1898 the value of dry salted dog salmon amounted to $160,000. In 1899 the value was $120,000, and in 1900 the value was $298,000. I think that covers the ground. The value is reckoned at three or four cents a pound, I cannot recall which. We have no information as to the number engaged in that business. The export of fish and fish products to Japan since 1896, is as follows :— 1896 $ - 2 1897 1,069 1898 17,986 "1899 40,270 1900 47,773 (See the Report of the Department of Trade and Commerce, 1900, page 614.) SUMMARY. Prior to 1896 comparatively few Japanese engaged in fishing, and a record of licenses issued to them was not kept. In that year 452 fishing licenses out of a total of 3,533 were granted to Japanese. This number has increased until in 1900 out of a total of 4,892 fishing licenses, 1892 were granted to Japanese, and in 1901 out of a total 4,722 licenses, 1,958 were granted to Japanese. The increase in the number of licenses is in direct proportion and corresponds to the increased number taken out "by Japanese. Each canner receives a certain number of licenses, and a number of these are given to Japanese ; so that about two thousand licenses were held by the Japanese for the year 1900, and over that number for the year 1901. For each boat there is at least one additional puller, making over four thousand Japanese directly engaged in the fishing business, and many more indirectly connected therewith. The Japanese are expert fishermen, having followed that calling in their own land, and unless something is done it is perfectly evident that they will in a few years supersede the white fishermen and control this business. Not one in twenty can 54_^23i 356 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII, A. 1902 speak English beyond a few words.. Numbers of them return to their own land after the fishing season is over, and the rest are thrown upon the labour market to find employment where they can, to the great detriment of the white working man and the incoming settler It is manifest that Japanese become naturalized not for the purpose of becoming citizens of the country in the ordinary sense of that term, but for the express purpose of qualifying themselves for fishermen's licenses. The following table will show the rate of increase and the danger apprehended :— (Prior to 1890 there is no record of any Japanese having been naturalized in British Columbia.) JAPANESE NATURALIZED IN BRITISH COLUMBIA. Year. Victoria. • Yancouver. New Westminster. 1890 '. 0 1 0 1 7 14 38 85 37 144 238 36 0 2 4 5 47 72 197 230 93 \ 94 437 182 0 1891. 0 1892 1893 1894 16 60 59 1895 1896 9 12 1897 1898 1899 .6 . 9 140 1900 231 1901 to August 29 3 601 1,363 545 Total. Nanaimo Chiliwack (for year 1900). Nelson (for year 1897)... 2,509 3 179 1 2,692 During the same period the returns show that 1,156 Chinese were naturalized in British Columbia. At Yancouver the total number of Japanese naturalized is 1,363, while all other nationalities, including Chinese, that took out naturalization papers amounted 734, exclusive of whites naturalized during the year 1901, which would probably make the total number of whites naturalized about 900. Nearly 1,700 Japanese have been naturalized during the last three years. The great increase in the number of licenses granted on the Fraser has had the effect of overcrowding, forcing many of the fishermen to leave the Fraser for the open water, which requires a large sea-going boat at two or three times the cost of the smaller one formerly used on the Fraser River. This overcrowding also decreases the individual catch and forces the fishermen to demand more for their fish than formerly, and receive less remuneration for their work, both the canner and the fisherman losing thereby. It has created serious irritation between the white fisherman and Japanese* the former complaining that they are forced out of an industry which they helped to develop, and that after the fishing season is over they are met by large numbers of Japanese in every industry where unskilled labour is employed, who work at very low wages, have no family to support and send or take most of their earnings out of the country. The natural irritation caused by this large and sudden influx of Japanese as fishermen was much aggravated by the fact that there were grave irregularities if not actual fraud in obtaining certificates of naturalization by many of the Japanese. It appears that CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the fare from Japan to British Columbia being very low, large numbers of Japanese have been in the habit of coming out for the fishing season, arriving in April and May and many of them returning after the fishing season is over. Many of these were engaged as. boat pullers for the Japanese fishermen, the regulations not requiring for this service that they should be British subjects. It appears that these boat pullers were afterwards naturalized. It is certain that many who were naturalized never resided in Canada for one full year, some of them may have resided here during the fishing season only for a part of three years, and yet hundreds of these men who had not complied with the requirements of the law, were granted naturalization papers and received their license to fish. The naturalization certificate being regular in form the officer considered he was bound to recognize the holder as entitled to a license. The Commission took sufficient evidence to establish these facts. It was impossible for them to inquire into every case. When we visited Steveston at the mouth of the Fraser in May, and therefore before the fishing season had commenced, we found a busy hive of men almost exclusively Chinese and Japanese, except the overseers. The Chinese engaged in making cans in the canneries and the Japanese in boat building and otherwise getting ready for the opening of the fishing season. What was particularly noticeable in this busy throng was the absence of white men. This class of Japanese almost without exception come without their families and are rapidly taking possession of an industry which for national as well as economic reasons should be retained in the hands of the white population, the actual settlers. What is wanted and is essential to the welfare of the country is to establish a permanent class of fishermen, householders, who, owning small holdings, maybe assisted in earning their livelihood by having an opportunity of making a few hundred dollars additional during the fishing season. As long as the fishing is profitable to the fishermen so long will the white men be willing to engage in it. As the margin of profit grows less, they will drop out, and the Japanese who can obtain licenses, who live on less, and are content with smaller remuneration, will occupy their places. This diplacement is evidenced by the number of licenses issued. Whether that margin of profit grows less by reason of overcrowding, depletion of the fisheries, or for any other reason, the tendency is towards the complete occupation of salmon fishing by Japanese while they continue to be licensed. Practically none of the Japanese of the fishing class bring their families with them. They have shown no signs of settling permanently in the country or of becoming merged amongst our people as all Hie various classes of white men do who are engaged in the fishing here. They have contributed in part to the present abnormal development of the industry. The opinions stated by those most interested was that white men are preferable and that they would not desire to see the industry get under the control of the Japanese. It is not right that this important industry should fall into the hands of a class who are foreigners and who do not assist in settling the country with a permanent class of citizens. O&g PART II. -BOAT BUILDING. Boat building is and always will be an important industry in British Columbia. Until a few years ago it was entirely in the hands of Canadians. It has passed largely into the hands of Japanese, except in the case of one large manufacturing firm where the work is chiefly done by machinery, and high class pleasure boats, which are ■chiefly built by whites. The Japanese make not only their own fishing boats, but also large numbers for the white fishermen. Formerly small boats were used almost exclusively on the Fraser, but within the last few years by reason of the large increase in the numbers of fishermen crowding on the Fraser, has resulted in large numbers fishing at the mouth of the Fraser and in the Gulf, for which larger and sea- worthy boats are required. These of course are more expensive. The fact is that the Japanese practically control this branch of the business except ■as above mentioned. Along the shores and bays from Port Moody to the mouth of the Fraser many hundreds are engaged in this business. ! 358 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION regarded as I learned to be I was born in 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Boat building is an important adjunct to the fisheries and both are rapidly passing out of the hands of Canadians and into the hands of Japanese. This cannot but be a, very serious matter. Andrew Linton says : I am a boat builder. I came here in 1884. a shipwright and boat builder in New Brunswick and State of Maine New Brunswick. The Japanese have interfered with my business. In the first place I used to build flat-bottom boats and boats used for logging work and around booms. The Japanese commenced on those first. I could not compete and had to quit. I then built a higher class of pleasure boats. They did not affect me there so much. There were seven or eight firms employing a number of men, I can't say how many. I also built fishing boats. The reduction in price drove me out. I think the boat business would be better if the Japanese were out of it and we could start apprentices, but now it is hard to get young people to take up the trade. They fear competition with Japanese. The fishermen get their boats for less than they did before, about one-quarter less cost. We never feared competition from outside, that is from a white man's country. Henry Mundon says : I am a boat builder. I have been here four years. I only employ one man now. I did employ as high as ten. The boat building is being done too cheaply now and I am not taking fishing boats to build. I can't get my price. Lots come to me to buy and ask the price. My price is $85, and they say they can get them from $60 to $65. The Japanese sell to the whites. I know they have built for the canneries at $65. When I had ten men employed I paid $2.50 to $3.00 a day. I am married and have three children. The Japanese get their help cheaper. There is one shack where they all live together. The boats I build ought to last seven or eight years. I could have built a lot of boats for fishermen and cannerymen too, but I would not take them. I built a few for $75 for cannerymen and lost money on them. I could have employed ten men if I had taken contracts of those who spoke to me. There are 100 being built (by Japanese) near where I am. Last year more were built than this year. I employed six men last year. The material in my boats cost $47 and 18 days' work. The Japanese used poorer material. They put in maple ribs. I have seen them whip sawing lumber. The Japanese can build as good a boat as a white man can for fishing. They build a cheap boat. I favour the exclusion of Japanese and Chinese. It was the year before last I employed ten men. Other witnesses gave evidence to the same effect. Alfred Wallace carries on boat building on a large scale. His evidence presents many important features. He says : I run a ship and boat-building establishment and employ 64 hands. The only way they (the Japanese) affect our business-is they (the cannerymen) give them the boats to build, and they (the Japanese) guarantee to furnish them the number of men to fish the boats that year. The canners themselves told me. There is not more than 3 per cent for private individuals. . I don't think my trade has been affected any. We buy the lumber in the rough and manufacture everything ourselves. We manufacture cheaper than formerly. I have been in business eight years. They have cheaper labour; that reduces the price of boats. Last year we built 392 boats ; of these 80 per cent were for the canneries. We run a union yard exclusively and pay union wages, $3 to $4 and nine hours per day for skilled men. We hire boys from $1.25 to $2.50—twelve boys altogether. About 50 per cent of the boats are built by Japanese. The Japanese have offered their services to me for 10 and 11 cents per hour; 24 of the men and boys are employed in boat-building; 33^ cents per hour is the lowest wage I pay to skilled workmen. I think the Japanese are very good mechanics, but very slow. You can get all the men you want, of good skilled men. There is no trouble about getting white labour. I have never had Japanese working for me. We may have to have them after awhile—get cheaper men to turn out cheaper articles. By machinery we can compete. We could not compete if the Japanese had machinery. We employ the men the year round. We have few unskilled labourers. It don't make much difference to me whether they come or not. My principal customers are the canneries so far as fishing boats are concerned. We can do the work about 15 per cent cheaper by machinery. No one building by hand can compete with machinery. We keep the staff steady. We build stock boats in winter. All round from Port Moody to the Fraser ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 359 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 River, that is 35 or 40 miles, you will find-shacks where boats are built by Japanese all along the shore. They cut the timber and rip-saw it and build boats wherever you see a shack. We build many for the Skeena trade. A boat will last eight years! The canneries buy new boats to replace the skiffs. I don't want to do anything to interfere with the fishing business. My principal patrons are cannerymen. I think there are just as many men building boats to-day as four years ago. It is a different class of boats to-day. We can compete with them at a profit. I don't say a good profit. If a company started who employed them we would have to cut wages or shut down. prices are reduced as much in the next four years as in the last of material. I four years, we could not compete at think in the same wages and cost we have enough Japanese here now. The arrangement with the Japanese and canneryman gives them an advantage. I can't get any of my boat builders to go fishing. The canners are our best customers. You will find the Japanese boat-builders everywhere. The men who build the boats do the fishing. They work from daylight till dark. One Japanese takes the contract and he is the responsible party. They are an intelligent race. They may go into this business and if they do we will have to get cheap labour, and then I would be opposed to further immigration. They live in boat houses. Two-thirds of my men are married men. I would not like to hurt the cannery business. They are my best customers; but I think we have enough here now. The opinion of canners will not alter my opinion. SUMMARY. The following facts are made clear by the evidence : Boat builders working without machinery have been driven out of the employment of building fishing boats. The, wages formerly paid for this class of work was from $2.50 to $3 a day. The Wallace factory employs 24 hands in boat building of this white labour, and pay union wages,—men from $3.00 to $4.00 a day and boys $1.25 to $2.50 per day, and is able to compete by using manager declares that he could not compete if Japanese employed machinery. class, exclusively for skilled labour, machinery. The If a company started who employed Japanese he would have to cut wages or shut down. If the selling price was reduced in the next four years as much as in the last four years this factory could not compete at the same wages and cost of material. All whites engaged in this business are opposed to further immigration of Japanese. The fishermen get cheaper fishing boats but lose more than they gain by competition of Japanese fishermen. This industry is a good illustration of the effect of oriental labour. It grew up to meet the requirements of the trade exclusively by white labour and so nourished, giving employment to large numbers of men at prices that would enable them to live and support their families. The Japanese was not a necessity. ; When he comes, by reason of his low standard of living', he is able and has driven out all but the large machinery- supplied factory. This factory would not now compete if another started employing Japanese labour, or if the Japanese employed machinery. That this will take place in a short time if they continue to come can scarcely be doubted; and then the same argument might be presented as is now made in respect of other industries ;—it cannot be successfully carried on without cheap labour. Of course it cannot if the competition of cheap labour brings down the price. The cure is to remove the cause; not more cheap labour, but less. While cheap labour continues to come in it creates the conditions which it is said make it necessary. 360 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII, A. 1902 CHAPTER III.—THE LUMBER INDUSTRY. PART I. SAWMILLS. The Japanese are employed to a very considerable extent in the lumbering business. Their proportion to whites and Chinese employed will appear from the following table :— Mill. Chemainus Mill .. ii (in camp) Hastings Mill.. , I (in camp) Royal City Mills, New Westminster. The Moodieyille Sawmill Co Sayward Mills, Victoria Munsie Mills, Victoria Haslain Mills, Nanaimo North Pacific L. Co Robertson & Hackett, Vancouver.... Royal City Mills, Vancouver. Brunette Mill, near Vancouver j Shields' Mill, Kamloops j Yale Mill Company—Head office at Rossland controlling mills atj Rossland, Robson, Nakusp, Cascade, Roche Creek, Dead wood j i Hillyer's Mill, Nelson Buchanan's Mill, Kaslo Whites. 58 128 164 245 180 60 30-40 10 39 45 80 90 168 30 200 40 10-50 Chinese. 56- 19 0 10 • 57 10 60-70 17 13 0 0 11 10 3 3-4 as cooks. 0 0— Japanese. 56 30 93 0 29 40 0 0 9 46 20 60 78 9 0 0 0 Probably the best idea as to whether the Japanese are necessary for this business, and as to whether there are sufficient in the country to meet the demand, may be gathered from the evidence of the employers. As most of these witnesses have been quoted from at length, in dealing with this question as it affects* Chinese immigration reference may be had to that evidence. Edmund James Palmer, manager of the Yictoria Manufacturing Company's mill at Chemainus, that exports nearly as much as all the other mills at British Columbia, says : We first employed Japanese about a year ago last February. I never employed them in the mill except three months ago. I let them a contract for grading the road. I know the Port Blakeley mill on Puget Sound, Washington, employs Japanese. All the other mills there employ whites. Q.* What do you say as to the Japanese?—A. I think there are plenty of them here. I would say that all further immigration of Chinese or Japanese should be prohibited. What we have here now I think quite sufficient, and I think we can gradually work white labour in until we would soon have sufficient white labour in the country to answer all demands. The Japanese are more inclined to adopt our mode of living and more inclined to spend money in doing so. Richard H. Alexander, manager of Hastings Mill, Yancouver, says: We employ ninety-three,Japanese, in trucking and piling lumber. They are paid from 90 cents to $1.25 a day. The Japanese are all in inferior positions, with the exception of the lath mill, at which there are six or seven of them at the cut-off saws and trimmer. We first engaged them twelve years ago. (The evidence of this witness is fully given in Part I, Chap. XII. Robert Charles Ferguson, manager of the Royal City Mills, Yancouver, which forms one of the three mills under the control of the British Columbia Mills and Trading Company; the other two being the Hastings Mill and the Royal City Mills of New ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 361 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Westminster, says: We employ 150 men, of whom 60 are Japanese. Over half the Japanese are paid 90 cents a day. Three Japanese have charge of saws. They are satisfactory. We get as much done as if run by a white man. We pay a Japanese sawyer $1.25 a day. We pay white labour of the same class (sawyers) $2.25. If no more Chinese and Japanese were admitted I would be satisfied for the present time, but I don't think we could do in the future because the Japanese are spreading out more. That is they are going over the country and going into business for themselves and are employed more largely. I don't think we could get white labour to take their place at present. I don't see why Japanese should not be able to run the higher class of machines. I would not care to run my mill with Japanese altogether. Certainly I would employ cheap labour all through if competition made it necessary. In handling the machines the Japanese can handle as much as the white man. If it came to heavy- work the white man might be worth a little more, not over 15 per cent. White men could not live on the same wages we pay Chinese and Japanese. Our firm tried to take a couple of carloads of people from the east at one time. We brought them out by rail with the usual result, they tried to beat their fares and left the employment of the company. They were bushmen and loggers. The lumber industry is languishing here at the present time, partly because of the foreign trade being dull and a dullness in the North-west market. Our trade last year was hurt by the labour unions, here demanding higher prices for labour in the first part of the year. I should judge the employment of Chinese and Japanese have an effect on labour associations. We have a great deal of difficulty getting men to work during the fishing season. I would sooner employ all white labour if I could get it. Robert Jardine, the local manager of the Royal City Planing Mills at New Westminster, who employs 29 Japanese out of a total of 266 men, says : The Japanese came in in 1897 ; prior to that Chinese were used. In 1897 we had a number of white men employed that filled the positions now held by Japanese, and they left and went fishing and we Were compelled to get whatever labour we could. Probably eight or ten left and more left gradually. I would as soon employ white men at $37 or $38 a month as Japanese at $1 a day. It is not because of the difference in wages, but the difficulty in getting men, that we employ Japanese. We require cheap labour and the Chinese is • the kind we .have. We have to have cheap labour or shut our business down, because two-thirds of our cut is shipped east,- to the North-west Territories, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and as far east as Halifax. If we had to employ all white labour at from $35 to 840 a month, it would amount to a thousand dollars a month or over. We would have to pay 60 per cent more. We don't feel the competition so much. We have a price list between the different owners. It is not always adhered to. We only use 59 Japanese. I suppose the-employment of Chinese, and Japanese, and that white labour has to compete with them, does keep white labour out to a certain extent. (See further evidence of this witness Part I, Chap. XIII.) Henry Depencier, manager of the North Pacific Lumber Company, that employs 46 Japanese out of a total of 91 men, the rest being white, says : The mill had been shut down for ten years on account of the depression in the lumber trade here. We commenced within the last year. We employ Japanese because of the 16 in the mill they do as much as white men. Two white men will do as much as three Japanese. I prefer white men. There are sufficient Japanese here now. In the east, Ottawa Yalley, we had a whole mill outfit at what we pay the Japanese. Now wages are higher in the east. We had labour from Quebec at $1 a day and they boarded themselves. It is higher now. We never tried to bring that labour here. They could not come at that rate of wages. They are better than Japanese. We could pay them 50 per cent more. I think they would be brought here if the Japanese were not here. They can do more anywhere about the mill. At piling lumber the Japanese do about as much in a day as whites. We can produce lumber much cheaper here than east. They can work it up more closely there than here. They work up everything there. All of it can be sold. It was not a labour question at all. It was a question of finding a profitable market. We pay"white labourers $1.50 to $1.75 : skilled $2.50 to $3.85 ; two boys 18 years old $1 a day. We pay the Japanese $1 a day, and three $1.25 a day. 362 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 John G. Woods, superintendent of the Moodyville Sawmill Company, which employs 110 men, of whom 40 are Japanese, says: We pay white men from $30 a month and board up to $140 for foremen ; Japanese 90 cents and board to $1.25 and board. Board costs 35 cents a day. In most positions they are 'as good as whites. They are behind machines and keep the machines clear. The Japanese run machines, namely, the edger and trimmer; one edger and five trimmers run by Japanese. We formerly had white men do it. He runs the machine as well as a white man and we keep him there. I don't see why a Japanese should not do anything there is to do about a sawmill. I very much prefer white men if other conditions are equal. The competition is as keen as the mills can stand and keep afloat- I guess we could fill the positions with white men if the Japanese were out—get them here in the country, but would have to pay them more. We would have to pay whites $15 a month more. If we had to pay $700 or $800 more than we do now we would have to shut down. I would close down so far as I am concerned rather than employ Asiatic labour. I have had large experience here in mills. For the last five years the Moodyville Mill has just about held level without the owners getting one cent interest or dividends. The property has been kept up. Our position is good for foreign markets but not for local trade. We do simply a foreign trade. We ship to China and Japan. James W. Hackett, of the firm of Robertson & Hackett, that have a sawmill and sash and door factory. They employ 100 men in and about the mill and factory, of whom 20 are Japanese. Only white men are employed in the camps. Their market is local and east. He says : We tried to run our mill without Japanese. We found that it was necessary to have a certain amount of cheap labour. We had to compete with others who had cheap labour; besides cheap white labour is very unsteady. You can get white labour for $1.50 a day, but they won't stay with you. If others had employed exclusively white labour we would. We don't employ Chinese. The export mills have a good deal to do in fixing the local price. What they do not export they sell cheap. The local market would be better without the export mills. The more there is shipped for foreign markets the worse it is for local trade, because every million feet leaves a lot rejected which comes in competition with the local trade. Our white men are a very sober class of men. Some kinds of work Japanese will do as well as whites. I think it would take as many whites to do the work of Japanese. It would make a difference of $24 a day. The greater portion of our labour is skilled labour. Public opinion on the Chinese and Japanese question is very strong. Last year I paid out $50,282 in and about the mill and factory. N Of this $3,282 was paid to Japanese and $47,000 to whites. I also paid to whites in the camp $24,125.. I would have had to pay $1,640 more to whites if I had employed all whites and no Japanese. Our realty and plant is worth about $100,000. We have a good class of labour in this country, better than in most countries. Andrew Haslam, sawmill owner at Nanaimo, said : I think the Japanese are stronger physically than the Chinese. Japanese can do harder work than the Chinese. I am certainly in favour of employing white men. I think myself the Japanese will finally be the keener competitors of the white men. I do not think anyone will deny that the Japanese are a progressive people and have advanced more rapidly of late years than any other nation; but on the other hand their wants are so few and their habits so simple they can live very well for a small sum of money, for such a sum that a white person could not possibly live on; and to bring an unlimited number of these people here to enter into competition with our white people, I do not think is in the interests of the country by any means. It is a question to my mind whether it is wise to encourage immigration beyond what can find profitable employment in the country. I have heard very little of the Japanese question here. I do not think it would be wise to persist in any regulation that would tend to irritate the Japanese people at the present time. As far as I know of the business of British Columbia, and I have had an opportunity of studying it for 35 years, all I can say is that the white men got less wages before the Japanese and Chinese were in the country than thev did after they were in here. , ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 36$ Lewis A. Lewis, manager of the Brunette Sawmill Company, New Westminster, pays out in wages in connection with his sawmill, planing mill and logging camp annually $141,937 ; for white labour, $119,773, and the balance to Japanese and Chinese; that is about 85 per cent to whites and 15 per cent to orientals. He employs in all 168 white men, 78 Japanese and 10 Chinese. He says: The average wage of the Japanese is $1.00, Chinese, 90 cents, and white labour $35 to $100 a month. Have had Japanese four or five years, but not as many as now. Had 10 or 12 more last year than the year before, using more men in 1900 than in 1899. The business has increased, but the number of white men is about the same. The increase has been 10 or 12 additional Japanese. The Japanese have gradually taken the place of white men—in some places they have. Some of our tally men are Japanese. He could do it as well as white. The Japanese have taken the place of white men in piling lumber. We paid $35 to $40 a month. We now pay Japanese $1 a day of 26 days. That is instead of $35 to $40, we pay $26. I don't think a Japanese will do as much work as a white man. They don't understand. The Japanese don't understand English. I would as soon pay a white man $35 a month as a Japanese $26 in certain kinds of work. There was no advantage in taking on Japanese instead of white men as to that work. In trucking rough lumber out of the yard, Japanese are cheaper. As far as I can recollect when the Japanese did not do it, the Chinese did. Our market is all the way from here to Quebec. Our principal market is the North-west Territory, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec. When it goes east of Winnipeg it is large special timber for bridge building.. We export to Glasgow, Scotland and to Japan. It is not regular, it is incidental. It? would not be a tenth of our business. The Chinese are engaged in piling lumber in the yard. No Chinese work in the mill; some of the Japanese do. They work behind th& edger. None run the edger. None of the Japanese do any skilled work ; one of them uses a trimmer saw for cutting off, for the last year or so. We formerly paid a white man $40 a month, and we pay the Japanese $1.35 per day, say $32.50 per month. He- can't do the work as well. He can do as much. The man at $40 could get his job back at the price. I have resided here fourteen years. Japanese were not in the sawmills then ; white men and Chinamen did the work. I don't know of any Japanese or Chinese with families, think, mostly married. We give preference to married men. get along without the Japanese in the lumber business. We the Chinese. I am speaking from the lumberman's standpoint, the summer time till after the fishing season is over. White labour is short these months. There is abundance of white labour during the winter months. If you give Japanese employment in winter they will stay in summer. Our white men stay with us in summer. We supply lumber and boxes to the canneries. This year it may be $50,000 if a big run. Last year it was $30,000 to $40,000. Two other mills also supply the canneries. The business is in a fair condition, but it last three years have been better. For eight previous years we We get a special order and we have to get out special lengths, fix the price for the east, but there is such keen competition among the mills that it cuts the price. If you want half a dozen men, Japanese, you can get them on short notice by speaking to a boss Japanese, same as to boss Chinamen. There is very strong competition in British Columbia. The prices are below what would give a reasonable profit if we had to employ white labour. Alexander Shields, manager of the Kamloops Sawmill, employs 9 Japanese out of a total of 42 men. He says : We have some difficulty in keeping whites. We shut down for a while and the men were then discharged and when we started we brought in Japanese. The whites were not invited to come back. The management is in favour of further restriction. I would restrict it so no more would come in. I think there are- enough here. In the logging camps we employ about 100 men, all whites. We prefer them. We would not have Japanese or Chinese. I think the Japanese are more desirable as a class than the~Chinamen. I don't think any serious loss would result if no In the sawmill business it is necessary to have cheap labour. We come The white men are, I I don't think we could could get along without Labour is short during during could be better. The- did not make money. British Columbia can- more came in. 364 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION into competition with the coast mills. 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Our management would favour no more coming in. Charles Hillyer, of Nelson, employs 40 men in his sawmill and sash and door factory, and pays for unskilled labour from $2.25 to $2.50 and for skilled labour $3, $3.50 and $4 a day. .The market is local and for the mines. He says : I favour further restriction. If any restriction can be put on it ought to be «|one. In 15 years there wont be a white man working in a sawmill. If I compete with the coast mills I will have to put my white men out and put in Chinese. I will have to put in Chinese. I will hajre to put in Chinese and Japanese within two years. Geo. A. Buchanan, sawmill owner of Kaslo, employs from 10 to 50 men, according to the season ; no Japanese or Chinese, except occasionally as cooks. He says : I am' not in favour of putting restriction upon anybody as far as I am concerned. I think all kinds of men should be free to come and go and make their homes anywhere it suits them. God made of one blood all nations of the earth. William C. Dickinson says : I was bookkeeper and yard foreman in the Royal City Mill. I had from 25 to 35 Japanese under me. In heavy work I would * rather have one white man than two Japanese. I could have done the whole work with 20 or 25 white men. I favour restriction to keep out Chinese and Japanese. Japanese compete" more keenly. I remember when only one Japanese was employed there. In the last two years they have increased. They are increasing more rapidly than in the past. The Japanese range from 50 cents to $1.10, the average was about 80 cents. The white men struck and the Japanese took their places,—I should say about ten who are still in their places. The above is the wages before the cut. $10 was taken off my~ wages. The tally men and markers were succeeded by Japanese. I don't agree that whites are getting higher wages by reason of Japanese being employed. Eight or nine years ago there was only one Japanese, and the whites are not getting more wages now than then. I don't think their wages would be higher if the Japanese and Chinese were turned out. AMERICAN MILLS. It will be convenient here to refer to the statements obtained from lumbermen in Washington State and compare the wages on either side of the line in this industry. The Stetson and Post Mill Company, Seattle, employ 125 men; no Chinese or Japanese. Q. What is the average wage for unskilled labour here ?—A. The average wage will be about $2 a day for unskilled labour. It ranges from $1.75 to $2.25 or $2.50 a day. Sawyers are paid from $3.50 to $4 a day. \ W. H. Perry, the assistant general manager of Moran Brothers, who operate a sawmill at Seattle and employ about 100 men, stated that the average wage paid to common labour was $2 a day, that being the minimum. The men who operate the planers they are to a certain degree skilled labour and are paid $2.25, $2.50 and $2.75. Theodore Ludgate, a Canadian, who has recently engaged in the sawmill business at Seattle, and employs 150 men in and about the mill, says : Q. What is the average wage for unskilled labour ?—A. The lowest wage we pay is $1.75 a day to roustabouts, men who are here to-day and are to be found some place else next week. A great many men we 'pay $2 a day to ; $1.75 a day is our cheapest labour and it runs from that up to $5 for our filers and sawyers. The filers get $5 a day. The planer foremen get $3.50 a day and the planer feeders get $2.25 a day. No mills in the city or neighbourhood employ Japanese labour. The only mill employing Japanese labour is the Port Blakeley mill, nine or ten miles across the Sound from here. A. S. Martin, secretary of the Puget Sound Sawmill and Shingle Company, Fairhaven, Washington, said : We are employing 265 hands. We have 110 men employed in logging camps. We never employ Chinese or Japanese. They are only employed at one mill, at Port Blakeley. Minimum wages for unskilled labour is $1.50 per diem. There are about ten men working here for that wage. At present $2 is our minimum. Wages run up to $5 and $6 ; average, $3.33^ per diem. We make a specialty of cedar shingles, having the largest cut of any mill in the world. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 365 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 W. T. Harris, of Whatcom Fall Mill Company, at Whatcom, Washington, says i We employ about 75 men. No Chinese or Japanese. We buy our logs. I think no Japanese or Chinese are employed in the logging camps. Wages for ordinary labour are as low as $1.50 per day, but for skilled labour run up as high as $150 per month. Board is worth from $4 to $4.50 a week. The proportion of unskilled labour employed by us is two-thirds, including some machine attendants. We ship some of our product into Canada. Our chief market is in the east. We experience no difficulty in getting common or skilled labour. Chinese are not employed in Whatcom at all. Don't see them here at all. The population of Whatcom is about 10,000. The principal industry of Whatcom is lumbering. There are no canneries. The coal mines are several miles, but from town. They employ all white labour. W. Sherman, of the Bellingham Bay Improvement Company, Washington, said : We employ about 350 men. No Chinese or Japanese. We engage in export lumber business to South America, Australia, Hong Kong and Japan, and also ship to San Francisco and east of the Rockies. There are no Chinese or Japanese employed on the Bellingham Bay and British Columbia railway. The average Wage paid to unskilled labour is from $1.75 to $2 per day, and to skilled labour up to $4 per day; average,. $2.50 to $3.75. [here is no difficulty in getting labour. We buy our logs. WAGES ON THE AMERICAN AND CANADIAN SIDE COMPARED. CANADIAN MILLS. CJiemainus Mills (Chemainus, B.C.). Japanese—SI to $1.25. Chinese—$1 to $1.25 and one at $1.50. Whites—$2 for unskilled labour, and from $2.25 up for skilled labour. The Hastings Mill (Vancouver). Japanese—90 cents to $1.25. Whites—$40 to $45 a month, and in the woods the whites received from $2.25 to $2.50 a day. The Royal City Mills (Vancouver). Japanese—From 90 cents to $1 for common labour; sawyers, $1.25 to $1.50. Whites—Labour : unskilled, from $1.75 to $2.50 ; skilled, $2.50 to $3.50. The Brunette Sawmill Uompany (New Westminster). Japanese—95 cents to $1.25 ; average $1. Chinese—90 cents. White labour—$35 to $100 a month. The Royal City Planing Mills at New Westminster. Japanese—85 cents to $1.40 ; average $1. Chinese—85 cents to $1.35 per. day; average $1. Whites—$35 to $125 per month, and $1.75 to $3.40 a day for skilled labour. AMERICAN MILLS. The Stetson and Post Mill Company, Seattle. Japanese—None employed. Whites—$2 for unskilled labour. It ranges from $1.75 to $2.50 a day. Sawyers are paid from $3.50 to |4 a day. / 366 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Moran Brothers, Seattle. Japanese—None employed. Whites—Average wage for common labour $2 a day, that being the minimum. Theodore Ludgate, Seattle. "Whites—$1.75 is the cheapest labour employed, and up to $5 for filers and sawyers. SPlaner foreman $3.50, planer feeders $2.50. A great many of the common labourers ^are paid $2 a day. Japanese—None employed. Puget Sound Sawmill and Shingle Company, Fairhaven, Washington. "Japanese—None employed. Whites—Minimum wage for unskilled labour $1.50 per diem to $2. This company ^employs 265 hands. At present $2 is their minimum. The Whatcom Falls Mill Company, Whatcom, Washington. Japanese—None employed. Whites—Lowest $1.50«per day ; for skilled labour as high as $150 a month: The Bellingham Bay Improvement Company. Japanese—None employed. Whites—Average unskilled labour $1.75 to $2 a day. For skilled labour up to -$4 a day. SUMMARY. In dealing with this industry it was found impossible to limit the evidence and summary to the Chinese and Japanese respectively, and for a fuller statement of facts and evidence reference may be had to a former chapter where the bearing of Chinese immigration upon this industry is dealt with, which in connection with what is here said will give a fair idea of the present condition of the industry. In 1900 there was exported from British Columbia eighty-four million feet of lumber by six mills, the Chemainus 38,365,000 ; Hastings 23,873,000; Moodyville 19,312,000 ; The Royal City Planing MiUs of New Westminster 1,312,000; The Northern Pacific Lumber Company 659,000, and the Canadian Pacific Lumber Company 687,000. It will be seen, that of the total export the first three mills exported 91^- millions of ■the 84 millions. The following statement shows the destination : -!-.„„,• ,• Total Exports from .Destination. -r> i^ i»x-n Jt>. L/. iVlills. Great Britain and Continent 25,043,613 Australia 33,936,773 Africa 5,887,385 Peru , 4,554,350 Chili 3,858,830 . Other South American Ports 327,995 China and Japan 9,463,501 U.S. Atlantic Port f 1,061,405 Mexico % • 76,701 Total 84,210,553 'The exporting mills.compete with the other mills in the local market. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 367 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The Chemainus Mill exports nearly as much as all the other mills together, and employs 56 Japanese about the mill and 30 in the camp. The manager of this large concern stated that they had never employed Japanese in the mills until three months ago. In the camps they are employed for grading. He thought there were plenty of them here now, and stated that in his opinion all further immigration of Chinese or Japanese should be prohibited. He said : What we have here now I think quite sufficient, and I think we can gradually work white labour in until we would soon have sufficient white labour in the country to answer all demands. The manager ot the next largest exporting mill, the Hastings Mill, that employs 164 whites and 93 Japanese, explained that they had always had in a mill a certain proportion of cheap labour; in the earlier days Indians ; they gradually got off from working in the mill and were replaced by Chinese ; and on the other hand, on account of the strong feeling against Chinese, they discontinued them, and have since been using Japanese. It was ten or twelve years since Japanese were first employed. He further stated that the Indians were not crowded out by either the Chinese or Japanese. The Indian camp was removed. They lived on the other side of the inlet, and it was difficult for them to go over to the mill in time, and during the construction of the railway got more profitable work with the contractors. The Indians were paid 75 cents a day and board, equal to $1 a day. The Chinamen will go along like a machine and do the same work every day until night at the same work, but the Japanese has got more spirit, and if he sees the machine crowding him he will put on a spurt and keep the machine clear, whereas the Chinaman will let the machine block up, and he will want another man to help him. The Japanese may not work as steadily but he works quicker, and is better for the work than the Chinaman in that way. Neither Chinese nor Japanese a,re used in the woods. They are not suited for it. This witness declined to express an opinion as to restriction on Japanese immigration. He further stated that he desired to confine himself to its effect on the lumber trade, and said: The question is this,—we have always had a certain amount of cheap labour in connection with the operation of the lumber industry. It is quite possible that white labour would be generally profitable if we could get it under the same conditions. If the Japanese are to be replaced with white labour it will mean an increase in our expenses,—an increase in the cost of production of the lumber, but as it is at present the white men cannot work at the rate of wages that the Japanese do. Now, if the Japanese is replaced by white labour at a higher rate of wages on the industry on the manufacture of lumber, there can be but one result,—we would either have to raise the price of the article produced, or shut down the manufacture altogether. In our case the article manufactured has to be exported; it has to meet competition in the markets of the world with the same commodities from other places. The superintendent of the Moodyville Sawmill, the next largest exporter, stated that they employed 40 Japanese out of a total of 410 men. This mill is situated across Burrard Inlet from Yancouver. They are paid from 90 cents to $1.25 and board. The board costs 35 cents a day. In most positions they are declared to be as good as whites. White men are paid from $30 to $140 a month. This would make a»difference of about $600 per month in wages if whites were employed instead of Japanese, and the witness stated if they had to pay $700 or $800 per month more then they do now, they would have to shut down, but that so far as he was concerned rather than employ Japanese in responsible positions he would close down. This mill exports over four millions to China and Japan, out of a total of nine and a half millions. The Hastings Mill, and the Royal City Planing Mill of New Westminster, under the same general management as the Hastings Mill, exported the balance of the nine and a half millions that went to Japan and China in 1900. The local manager of the Royal City Mills of New Westminster says that the Japanese came in in 1897, but prior to that Chinese were used, but it is not because of the difference in wages but the difficulty in getting men that they employ Japanese; that they require cheap labour and the Chinese is the kind they have. They employ 57 Chinese and 29 Japanese and 180 white men. He further stated that they have to have cheap labour or shut down their business, and the reason given is that two-thirds of the cut 368 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 is shipped to the North-west Territories, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and as far east as Halifax ; that if they had to employ all white labour at from $35 to $40 a month it would amount to over a thousand dollars a month, and would be 60 per cent more than the cost of the labour of Chinese and Japanese now employed. He stated that he would as soon pay a white man $37 or $38 a month as a Japanese $1 a day. He further stated that they did not feel the competition so much because they had a price list between the different owners. He thought that the employment of Chinese and Japanese kept white labour out to some extent. The manager of the Brunette Saw-mill Commany at New Westminster that employs 78 Japanese, being the largest number employed by any mill except the Hastings mill, stated that they had employed Japanese for the last four or five years but not in such large numbers as at present. That the Japanese had gradually taken the place of the white men. They pay the Japanese $1 a day or $26 a month, instead of $35 or $45 a month formerly paid to white men. He did not think that the Japanese did as much work as the white man, and stated that he would as soon pay a white man $35 a month as a Japanese $26 in certain classes of work, but that in certain other classes of work the Japanese was cheaper, and finally added that he did not think they could get along without the Japanese in the lumber business, but that they could get along without the Chinese. This gentlemen spoke purely from the lumberman's standpoint. The next largest employer of Japanese labour is the Royal City mills of Yancouver who employ 60 Japanese, 11 Chinese and 90 white men. This case affords a fair illustration of what applies to nearly all the mills where Japanese are employed. The proportion given must not be understood as indicating the number of Japanese and unskilled white labour employed, the fact being that very little if any unskilled white labour is employed at these mills. The Chinese and Japanese practically fill all the positions of unskilled labour and have almost entirely displaced white men and Indians in these positions. The manager of this mill stated that they paid the Japanese 90 cents a day as common labourers and $1.25 a day as sawyers, three Japanese being employed in that capacity. It should be noticed here that the Japanese receive 90 cents a day without board whereas at the Moodyville mill they are paid 90 cents a day and boarded. The manager stated that he would be satisfied for the present if no more Chinese or Japanese were admitted, but thought that there might be difficulty in future because the Japanese are spreading out over the country and are going into business for themselves and are employed more largely. He did not think that white labour could be got to take their places at present. He thought that the Japanese would in time be able to run a higher class of machine, and declared that he would employ cheap labour all through if he found it necessary. © J The Northern Pacific Lumber Company employ 46 Japanese and 45 whites, no Chinese. The manager stated that they employed Japanese because out of the total number 16 do as much as Avhite men. In other classes of work two white men will do as much .work as three Japanese. He preferred white men and thought there were enough Japanese here now. The Robinson, and Hackett Company of Yancouver employ 20 Japanese. The manager stated that they tried to run the mill without Japanese, but found that they had to have a certain amount of cheap labour to compete with others who had cheap labour, and that if others would employ white labour exclusively, their company was willing to do so. They do not employ Chinese. The proprietor of the lumber mill at Nanaimo, employs 9 Japanese, 13 Chinese and 39 white men. He pays a total monthly wage of $4,350, of which $140 only is paid to Japanese, $368 to Chinese and $3,845 to whites. This gentleman ran his mill for 17 years with white labour exclusively, until two years ago. The cause of the change as stated by him was that the profits were getting so small that he could not afford to pay the white men for outside work, that is work apart from handling the machines; that there was an increased cost of everything that enters into the production of lumber, and that the selling price has remained the same for the last four or five years, and that owing to American lumber coming in free, they could only raise the price so that the American lumber could not be sold. The market is purely local, Nanaimo and vicinity. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 369 that is now year ; that SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 He said that American lumber did not come to Nanaimo, but that it competed with other mills, and those mills took the trade that he otherwise would have got. The remedy he suggested was the admission of mill supplies free of duty and in that case he would only employ white men. He was in favour of employing white men and in the interests of the country, would choose them. He spoke very favourably of the Swedes and Norwegians as a desirable class of immigrants for mill work, and expressed the opinion that we had a sufficient supply of Japanese and Chinese here now, and did not think any serious inconvenience would accrue to his business if no more were allowed to come in. He thought there were enough in the country for some time to come. He further stated that he thought the Japanese were the keenest competitors of the "white man ; that a few years ago white men were getting out timber for Mexico ; y J O © © j done by Japanese. They contract for it themselves, several cargoes each they more readily fall into our methods and habits ; they are not as steady as the Chinese, and he did not know if they would make better citizens. He added that as long as the timber is in the country it is an asset, and unless we got out of it something commensurate with its value we lose it. He added that mills on the Sound employ white labour exclusively, except the Blakeley mill which employs 300 Japanese. At the Kamloops sawmill, 9 Japanese out of a total of 42 men are employed. The manager thought Japanese more desirable as a class thsfcn the Chinese, but did not think any serious loss would result if no more came in. No Japanese are employed at the Sayward mills and Munsie mills at Yictoria, nor by the Yale mill company, which controls the mills at Robson, Nakusp, Cascade, Roche Creek, Deadwood and Rossland, employing 200 men, all whites, with three or four Chinese as cooks; no Japanese are employed at Hillyer's mill, at Nelson, or at Buchanan's mill at Kaslo. The result of the examination of this industry shows that about 500 Japanese, as far as we can ascertain, are employed therein. These have largely taken the place of Chinese within the last few years. In some employments in and about the mill it is said that they will do as much work as a white man. One manager stated that 16 Japanese out of the 40 employed would do as much work as an equal number of white men, and that the balance was in the proportion of about 2 white to 3 Japanese. It will be seen, therefore, that the difference in cost between the employment of white labour and Japanese is not the difference in wages paid to each, but the difference in the value of their work. This latter sum it is difficult to estimate with accuracy, but approximately it may be stated to be from two-fifths to a half of the difference in wages ; that is, that there is a saving to the mill owner of from two-fifths to one-half of the difference in wages between what is paid to a Japanese and what would have to be paid to white If only white men were employed in the above instance the saving would be $8, This probably expresses the view of the majority who favour cheap labour, but it must not be forgotten that some managers of large experience insist that white labour is as cheap in the long run as Japanese or Chinese, but it is not to be had at the present time, and that the reason of scarcity of white labour is because of the presence of the Chinese and Japanese, which has a tendency to keep out the desired class of white labour. An examination of the conditions of this industry on the American side shows that no Japanese are employed in the mills there, with one exception, and that is at Port Blakeley where they were first employed last year. The average wage paid for unskilled labour is from $1.75 to $2. In one instance a few men were employed at $1.50 per day, but the largest proportion are paid $2, and from that up to $3.50 and $4 for skilled labour. There is no difficulty there as far as we could ascertain in obtaining abundance of white labour at these wages. There is a large export trade from the Sound, amounting to over 156,000,000 feet last year, and a still larger cut for local and eastern trade. It is proper to observe that the only mill that employs Japanese labour is a large exporting mill. We are of opinion that if no more Japanese come in, having regard to the number that are now in the country, that there are sufficient for the present requirements, and for some years to come, and that the change from Japanese to white labour would take 54—24 men not $20. I 370 JEPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 place gradually and without any serious loss to the business. As this industry is one of the few that gives employment the year round, it is of great importance that it should give employment to white labour, and so build up a permanent community. PART II. SHINGLE BOLTS, MINING' TIMBER AND CORDWOOD. While the Japanese are not engaged to any extent in the shingle mills as the Chinese are, they have crowded out the Chinese, the white men and the Indians to a very large extent as labourers in getting out shingle bolts, mining timber and cordwood ; although as yet they are not employed to any large extent in the lumber camps. John Murray, provincial timber agent, says that on the coast the larger percentage of cutting shingle bolts is now done by Mongolians. Ten years ago they did very little. The same thing applies to cordwood. The Mongolians monopolize it now. The wood business is done by the Chinese and the bolt business by Japanese. It is difficult to say how many are engaged in the business. It would run up into the hundreds. W. H. Exlis, provincial immigration agent, says : I visited the cordwood camps on Main Island in the latter part of February. Several hundreds of Japanese are engaged in cutting cordwood on this and adjacent islands, chiefly for canneries and steamer companies. It is delivered f.o.b. on the scows at $1.80 to $2 a cord. I am informed that the contractors make little profit at these figures, and wages paid employees must be very small. The Japanese engaged in the work are principally from the Fraser River and owing to the small run of salmon last year they were in destitute circumstances at the close of the season. On their arrival at Main Island to commence work, they were without supplies and subsisted for some time on clams and thistle roots and whatever came and fish they could secure. The frequent heavy rains during the winter prevents continuous work. It would be impossible for white men to cut cordwood at the price and make very ordinary wages. The Japanese live in cedar shacks, sleep in bunks, ranged in tiers, and altogether have a wretched existence. Andrew Haslam, carrying on a large lumber business at Nanaimo, said : I think J © © myself that the Japanese will be the keenest competitors of the white men. A few years ago white men were getting out timber for Mexico and that is now done by Japanese. They contract for it themselves,—several cargoes each year. C. Uchida, a Japanese contractor for shingle bolts, says : I contract to get out bolts, $2.05 per cord delivered on the scows. I pay $2 per cord and get 5 cents and what I make on supplies. The men do not have to buy in my store; they can buy in any other place. I take out about three thousand cords a year. We employ all Japanese, 36 men in the camp. There is only one family \out there. Japanese have wives and children in Japan to whom they send money. Single men send very little money home. I buy groceries at the wholesale stores. I keep store and buy $2,000 a month; $360 a month goes into camp. I supply them with overalls and working clothes. I buy some from white men and some -from Chinese. The white men do not get out J © shingle bolts. The 36 men in camp are not naturalized. I am not a British subject. Edward H. Heaps, a shingle manufacturer, says : We employ in camps on contract about 80 getting out bolts. We let contracts to Japanese, Chinese and whites. The Japanese contractors employ Japanese, the Chinese employ Chinese, and the whites employ Japanese and Chinese. Ninety per cent would be Japanese and Chinese. We pay out $5,000 a month for eight months, $40,000 besides the factory wages. The division of wages would be the following :— To Chinese and Japanese for bolts. .. $36,000 Japanese and Chinese in the mill 8,000 Total $44,000 Whites in the mill $10,000 For bolts I 4,000 Total to whites .... $14,000 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 371 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 The Japanese and Chinese are paid $3 to $1 paid to the whites. Robert Jardine, the manager of the Royal City Planing Mills at New Westminster, who manufactures also a large quantity of shingles, says: We don't use shingle bolts. We cut them from the log and so we can carry on the shingle business without Japanese, because we get out ours all by white men. HOW THIS AFFECTS FARMERS AND OTHERS. James Thomas Smith, a farmer from New Brunswick, fourteen years in British Columbia, has 170 acres, says : We had 20 acres of heavy wood. We generally had white men to cut it, for a small figure. Always had a hundred cords cut, but owing to the Chinese and Japanese we have half on our hands yet. We could not sell to clear ourselves on it. We cannot compete. John Kendall, fisherman, says : Last year I tried to get a job cutting timber bolts or cordwood. I found I could get no job. I saw shingle bolts and wood being cut by Chinese and Japanese. Much other evidence was to the same effect. SUMMARY. The Japanese have gradually driven out the white man and to a large extent have taken the place of Chinese in getting out shingle bolts and cordwood, and seem now to have the exclusive trade for mining timber for Mexico, for which they contract and employ exclusively Japanese labour. The Japanese contractors pay the Japanese the contract price within a few cents and make their profits on their supplies. One manufacturer, out of a total expenditure of $44,000, stated that he paid to Chinese and Japanese for bolts $36,000, and that he paid to whites for bolts $4,000. Some of the manufacturers engaged in the shingle business purchase their bolts, which are gotten out chiefly by Japanese, and at first it appeared as if this were the cheaper method, but the manager of one of the largest mills stated that they do not use shingle bolts, but get out the material in the log, exclusively by white men, and so do not employ the Japanese at all for this purpose. In the largest shingle mill in the world, situate at Fairhaven, Washington State, the material out of which the shingles are made is brought to the mill in log lengths. Shingle bolts are not used, and neither Japanese nor Chinese are employed in connection with the business. The Japanese are only employed in connection with the shingle business in getting out the bolts; and as it would appear that this is not the only or the cheapest method of procuring material for shingles—even from the point of cheapness the Japanese do not seem to be esential to the success of this business. There are a great many shingle mills in Washington State, and the output is enormous and yet Japanese are not employed. The effect of the employment of so many Japanese in getting out shingle bolts, cordwood and mining timber is very serious upon the white settler. It is clear that the shingle business does not depend upon Japanese labour for the supply of the raw material. Their monopoly of this branch of the business handicaps the settler in disposing of his timber while clearing the land, and deprives him of an avenue of employment necessary to success until his holding becomes sufficiently productive to be self-sustaining. (See Part I, Chapter VII, Land Clearing, and Chapter XIV, Shingle Business.) CHAPTER IV.—OTHER OCCUPATIONS. The advent of the Japanese is comparatively recent, but for the time since they have commenced to come into the country in considerable numbers, their employment in the different industries and callings has been very rapid. Particular mention has been 54_24i I. ' ' ff 372 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 made of those trades and callings wherein they are most largely employed, and only a short reference is necessary with respect to the others.— (1.) The Mining industry. (2.) Railways. (3.) Sealing. (4.) Domestic servants. (5.) Farming, land clearing and market gardening. (6.) Tailors, etc. I. THE MINING INDUSTRY. Coal Mines.—It is only within recent years that Japanese have been employed at all in connection with the coal mines, and even now to only a limited extent. They are not employed at the Fernie mines nor by the New Yancouver Coal Company, Nanaimo. Japanese to the number of 102 are employed at the Union Mines, as miners, helpers, runners, drivers, labourers, timbering, blacksmiths, and labourers above ground,—77 being employed under-ground and 25 above ground. Only one Japanese is employed at the Extension mine and he above ground. It is manifest that the Japanese are not essential to this important industiy. Metaliferous Mines.—The Japanese have not been employed in any of the metali- ferous mines in the Kootenay district or elsewhere on the mainland, but they have been employed in mines near Victoria and on Texada Island. Henry Croft, who is engaged in mining at Mount Sicker, 45 miles from Victoria, says : We employ both white labour and Japanese labour at the mines. White labour only in the mines and Japanese only in sorting of the ore. We employ from 30 to 35 Japanese in sorting the ore. We had previously tried to get white labour for that purpose. We tried to get boys from 15 to 20 years of age. We paid them $1.50 a day. We had the greatest difficulty in securing boys even in the city or in the country. The boys from the town would come up and work for three or four days and then leave us suddenly. The consequence was we had to look for other labour, either we had to look for other labour or shut down. I thought about securing Japanese from 16 to 21 years of age. We secured the Japanese for that labour. We found them perfectly satisfactory in every way. We pay them 90 cents a day. We cannot employ white men, white labour, for the simple reason that trade prices will not allow it. If we were to employ labour at $2.75 a day, which is what I understand to be paid in the Kootenay, it would make a difference to us in profit of over $19,000 a year. That profit enables me to employ more white miners than I otherwise would do. I am adverse to Chinese and Japanese immigration, but I consider that in new countries like South Africa and Australia you must have cheap labour, and for instance in our own country we require cheap labour to run the saw mills. I hope that Norway and Sweden where they have cheap labour, they will ship some of it to us. There, cheap labour works in the sawmills, and the markets for their products are the same as ours. Unless we have some cheap labour, the lower grades of labour to do the lower class of labour in mines and lumbering camps, we cannot bring this country into the state of development we would wish. I think there are sufficient numbers of Japanese here now to meet the demand and also of Chinese. I do not think it necessary to permit any more Chinese to.come into the country. I think there are enough of the Chinese and Japanese here at the present time. No serious inconvenience would arise to our business if no more were allowed to come in. Q. Is there any industry with which you are familiar that you think would suffer any inconvenience, or to which any inconvenience would arise if no Chinese or Japanese were permitted to come in %—A. No, I believe it is now like a tap, when you want water you turn it on and when you have enough you turn it off. All you have got to do is to put a per capita tax on the Chinese high enough to exclude them. Alfred Raper said : The Japanese have been employed as miners in one mine. Only the. shift foremen and three white men. There must have been between 40 and 60. They were discharged. They worked in the mine and above ground. They did black- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER sinithing. There are only 30 or 40 Japanese on the island now all told. There were about 150 before they were discharged. There are 175 whites. White miners were paid $3 on hand drills and $3.50 for machine men. Muckers and shovellers $2.50. The Japanese miners and muckers were paid $1.25 per day. The cause of dismissal was that it cost too much. The output was too small. It did not pay. The manager said he had taken the Japanese out for good. The number of Japanese employed in the metaliferous mines as a whole is insignificant, and it cannot be said that this industry is dependent upon their labour. HYDRAULIC MINING. The Japanese have displaced Chinese labour in the Cariboo Consolidated, where about 100 are now employed. (See Part I, Chaps. IX, X and XI.) II. RAILWAYS. The Japanese are not employed as yet to any great extent upon the railways; indeed with the exception of the Canadian Pacific Railway they are not employed at all. The general superintendent of the pacific division of the Canadian Pacific Railway states that only seventy are employed in that division (main line) steadily. At certain seasons of the year as many as 300 or more are employed. Of the seventy, thirty are engaged as section men and forty on extra gang work from time to time. The Japanese are paid from $1 to $1.10 and white men $1.25 to $1.50. This out of a total number of nearly five thousand is comparatively small and it is manifest that this great overland railway has not hitherto been dependent upon this class of labour to any considerable extent. The numbers employed as compared with the whole number of employees on this division is so small, that it would be idle to urge that this class of labour is essential to the success of that great enterprise. It is said that Japanese labour is largely employed on American Trans-Continental and other coast railways. We were informed, however, at Seattle, that the railways are letting them go, that one or two of the railways have already ceased to employ them, and that the Great Northern is getting rid of them as fast as it can. The superintendent of the pacific division of the Canadian Pacific Railway stated : This company is not interested ih employing a single oriental if we can get white labour. I don't desire to express any opinion on the question of immigration. I don't think white men with families could live on what we pay Japanese. We do not encourage white men with families. If the government had brought in whites to build the road it would have been better. More was lost than gained (that is by bringing in Chineise). The Japanese is a better man than the Italian. (See Part I, Chap. XIX, Sees? 8 and 10, Railways.) III. SEALING. Wm. Munsie, Victoria, engaged in the sealing business, says : The Japanese make excellent sailors. I have been employing them for several years in the sealing vessels ; I usually employ two, three or four to each vessel, but just now the sealing business is amalgamated into one company and there are quite a number of Japanese out this year, but I cannot say how many. No difference is made between the white men and Japanese as sailors. The principal reason of my employing them is, as sailors they are handy and sometimes white sailors are scarce. A vessel usually carries 24 men all told, and among those there would be two or three Japanese ; some vessels have no Japanese at all, and some have four or five Japanese. All vessels should carry Indians ; the Indians are the hunters. Half of the number on board would be Indians, and sometimes a larger proportion. The Japanese do not hunt, they are sailor men; where the Japanese are employed on schooners they are boat pullers. The Indian schooners always carry a crew of about seven white men at least to man the vessel, and sometimes one or two Japanese are employed on them as sailors. 374 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Sometimes we ship four distinct races,—the fourth a coloured man. The hunters and boat pullers eat forward and the mate and sailors take their food in the cabin. The captain and white men live together and have their food together, they live aft, and the Indians live in the forecastle. In such a case the Japanese lives aft and eats with the white men. When there are sailors or schooners carrying white hunters the sailors and Japanese eat in the forecastle, the white hunters and the captain and mate live aft. The reason is that the cabin would be too small for a crew of 24 men and the sailors go forward to suit the accommodation. We have no Japanese overseers or superintendents. We only employ them as sailors, they are good sailor men, and trustworthy; there is not anything aboard the ship they cannot do. If no more came to this country I think we would not be inconvenienced. They are not hunters ; they are only fit for sailors, boat pullers and boat steerers. There are some Japanese hunters on the Japanese coast, but not on this coast, not even on Japanese schooners, and these vessels are even officered by white men. I think there are not as many of them employed now as there were five years ago. There is such a small percentage of them in the business that if none but white men were employed it would make no practical difference. There has never been an attempt to fill our vessels with Japanese. We seek white sailors first and then we pick up, if we require them, two or three Japanese. I do not know that there is any objection to them in limited numbers. I would be in favour of their exclusion. IV. DOMESTIC SERVANTS. What has been said under this heading in dealing with Chinese immigration applies in many particulars to the Japanese, and reference may be had to the discussion of the question there for a fuller statement of the views of the Commissioners upon this important subject. A large number of Japanese are employed as domestic servants and chore boys, but they are not employed nearly to the same extent that Chinese are, nor are their wages as a rule as high, nor do they give the same satisfaction. In some few cases they were highly spoken of, but they seem rather to have accepted situations on their first coming to the country as a means of livelihood until they could find some other occupation. In Victoria out of a total of 139 males, 57 found employment as domestic servants. They seem to be employed where less wages are paid than are usually paid to the Chinese domestic servants. V. FARMING, LAND CLEARING AND MARKET GARDENING. The Japanese are employed to a limited extent on the farm and in land clearing and market gardening, and while in a few instances they are favourably spoken of as affording cheap labour, yet the great mass of the farmers, fruit growers, and those interested in agriculture regard them as undesirable immigrants and are strongly in favour of the view that no more of that class should be permitted to come in. VI. TAILORS. A few carry on business as merchant tailors, and in some cases Japanese tailors are employed by Chinese, but they have not yet encroached upon this or other trades to any considerable extent. CHAPTER V.—HOW JAPANESE ARE REGARDED. The Japanese are regarded as likely to prove keener competitors with white labour, than the Chinese. With few exceptions this was the opinion generally expressed both ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 375 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 by employers and employees. It was also generally stated that they were more ready to adopt our mode of dress and habit of living than the Chinese are. A reference to the evidence will more clearly indicate the views held in regard to them. Joseph D. Graham,' government agent at Atlin : The Japanese are a little cheaper than the Chinese. I would rather deal with them. They are <- a more manly class of people. They purchase goods from our ordinary tradesmen. They have got more of the western method about them. Everybody has his own idea. I draw my own conclusions from what I have seen of the Japanese : that they are a more manly race of people, and I have always drawn that conclusion. I have only met a few of the Japanese. Those I have met have been more manly than the Chinese. I cannot speak of them as a -race. Dr. Roderick Fraser, medical health officer for the city of Victoria : The Japanese live in any part of the city and wear European dress and occupy ordinary houses. I do not think they adopt the manners, customs and habits of our own people except in the matter of dress. They do not adopt our food, and the labouring Japanese does not sleep in the same kind of bed, but on a hard bed, like the Chinese, with a wooden pillow. They live close together. Dr. Alfred T. Watt, superintendent of quarantine for British Columbia : I consider they are apparently more like our own people. They dress in English clothing; but you find in the boarding houses where they live—there are three or four Japanese boarding houses in the city—there they will put on the Japanese costumes in sitting around in their own houses and eat food prepared much in the same way as it is prepared in Japan; live on rice and fish principally. The Japanese do not crowd together in the same sense the Chinese are crowded. They do not all live in the same quarter. They are congregated in large boarding houses. Large numbers sleep in one room. I think they are scarcely crowded in that respect as much as the Chinese. The Japanese in Victoria is more of a floating population. William P. Winsby, Tax Collector for the City of Victoria : The Japanese assume our dress more generally. They live in boarding houses. I think they buy most of their food here. In some instances it comes from China ; in some instances they use chopsticks, but a great many of them use knives and forks. They assimilate with the white man as far as they know how, and I should say the Japanese is a more dangerous competitor than the Chinese, because he is more adapted to white men's labour. He does not confine himself to one or two things. He does not seem to be so domesticated. He will work at any kind of work. A Japanese will take less wages than a Chinese will. As soon as they come here they open schools. Every man goes in to learn English. © James Andrew Grant, merchant tailor, of Victoria: The Japanese dress in European clothes and they are a better class of men taking them all around. They are small but they would be more likely to conform to our institutions, but the effect of their presence here on white labour would be just the same as that of the Chinese. I would favour their exclusion on the ground that they endanger the welfare of the labouring class the same as the Chinese do. I say they are a detriment to the country. Our country ought to be for our own people first. Self-preservation is the first law of nature. Clive P. Wolley^ formerly executive officer of the sanitary commission for the province: I have had very little experience as to Japanese. I am very much prejudiced in their favour. I do not want them, but I think better to have them than the Chinese, if we have to have either of them, for the reason that he seems to be willing to live more or less the white man's life. He will live as a white man does, and he is cleaner in his surroundings. He is more like our own people in assimilating to our manners and customs and mode of living, and he is more civilized—he is more manly and gentlemanly. I would rather have him because he buys our produce and dresses like ourselves and seems to be willing"to adopt our habits and customs. He is a more dangerous competitor with the white man. He adapts himself more easily to our civilization than the Chinese. The Chinese will do the lowest kind of labour and stick to it. The Japanese 376 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION I 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 will get higher if he can, and he has brains enough to rise into any of the mechanical pursuits. It would certainly be better for all concerned if there was either a free importation of cheap labour or else that there should be a law enacted to keep out the Chinese and Japanese altogether. Thomas R. Smith, of Victoria, general merchant, also engaged in salmon canning and general agent: They are not of the same class as the Chinese. The Chinese are sober. I do not think the Japanese are always sober. I do not think they are as law- abiaing as the Chinese. I should say that of the two the Chinese is more desirable I © J think. If I made restriction against the Chinese I- would make restriction against the Japanese. I do not say that the Japanese are preferable to the Chinese. William John Taylor, of Victoria, barrister-atlaw, who has resided fifteen years in the province says : I believe there is a great inclination on the part of the Japanese to become a citizen and he spends more of his earnings in the community. I think in some cases he will be a keen competitor with white labour. He can do more work than the average Chinese. Taking the average run of the Japanese they are more muscular. I think it would be advisable to exclude Japanese labour also, purely from industrial reasons ; that they do not make for the benefit of the community so much as an equal number of whites would. Charles F. Todd, who has resided in Victoria for over thirty years, wholesale grocer and salmon canner, says : Chinese and Japanese are much the same. My experience is that the Chinese are more trustworthy than the Japanese. I think restriction is quite as necessary with the Japanese as with the Chinese. I should say as much as on the Chinese. Albert E. McPhillips, who has resided in Victoria since 1891 and is a member of the local legislature for the city of Victoria, says : I have had very little to do with, and I have observed the Japanese less than the Chinese. There are very few in Victoria. Those I have observed and my knowledge of the work performed by them is to the effect that they often work for less wages and compete more strongly against-our labouring people than the Chinese. Q. Do you think they are more inclined to adopt our habits and customs than the Chinese ?—A. I think they do on the surface, but I wouldn't like to say more than that. As at present advised I do not put one race above the other. I think they are equally objectionable. I would like to see the national government in some way meet the question as a whole to exclude these people from our shores; both races if possible ; and in such a reasonable way as not to cause any disturbance of the relations between the Imperial government and Japan, because I admit that should have some weight with us. I still think it would be against the best interests of this country to have that race here in any appreciable numbers. Joseph A. Sayward, of Victoria, manufacturer of finished and dressed lumber, and a large employer of Chinese labour, says: I am opposed to further immigration of Chinese in the interest of the country at large. I think the Japanese are pretty much of the same class. I do not know there is any difference. The same objections would apply to the Japanese. Robert George Tatlow, member of the local legislature for Vancouver city, real estate and general brokerage business, says : My view is for prohibition of the labouring class. I may say I am in favour of prohibition as far as it can be got as to both Chinese and Japanese, with due regard to the existing treaty. I think they are equally dangerous to the future welfare of this country. William Munsie ,of Victoria, who is interested'in several lines of business, sawmill- ing, sealing, &c, and employs Chinese in his lumber business and Japanese in the sealing business, says : In regard to Chinese immigration I prefer to exclude them—to exclude any further immigration. I do not like our country to be invaded with foreigners of the type of Chinese and Japanese. I do not think they will ever become Canadians in the proper sense of the term. Q. Would that apply with the same force to the Japanese 1—A. I think it would. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 William H. provincial immigration officer for Vancouver Island, consider Japanese cleanly in habits, industrious and mtelligent; believe them more dangerous competitors in the business of the country than the Chinese. They adopt European dress and food and conform as much as possible to the customs of the country. As a race they believe they are capable of taking an equal place among the civilized nations of the ^orld. They are more aggressive than the Chinese, and if permitted to enter this country without restriction, would in course of time become a considerable portion of our business and working community and would undoubtedly insist on becoming enfranchised. I do not consider them desirable as citizens from the fact that they do not or cannot assimilate with the white race. At present they, like the Chinese, occupy a special place in the community. They furnish labour at which a white man cannot compete. They do not support families, and they trade almost altogether among themselves. They are meagre contributors to the general welfare and are a positive detriment to the white labourers. Their advantage is altogether from the standpoint of capital. Edmund J. Palmer, manager of the Chemainus mills (exporters of lumber), that employ both Chinese and Japanese labour, says : Q. I notice that you seem in the lumber business to employ more Japanese than Chinese ?—A. It is the same class of labour, but the Japanese are better than the Chinese. The Japanese spend a large part of their money here. They will never settle our country up. Q. What you mean is a great many of them have not brought their wives over here?—A. Not that altogether, but it is just like this,—if you want to improve the stock in the country you import good stock from the east or from other countries. The same thing applies to a country as to stock. If you want to settle it up and have a thriving community you import good men and their families, but here if you are figuring up to settle up the community and open up the country the Japanese are no good. Henry Croft, engaged in mining near Victoria, where from 30 to 35 Japanese are employed in selecting ore, says :— Q. Do you think there are a sufficient number of Japanese here now to meet the demand?—A. I think so. I think there are enough of the Chinese and Japanese here at the present time. I do not think the Japanese will become permanent residents. White labour will not come in while the Chinese and Japanese are occupying the place in cheap labour that they are doing at present. That with restriction on immigration, white labour will gradually come in here, and the Japanese will leave the country. I favour restriction to a certain extent. We~ do not require any more Chinese or Japanese here at present. I favour a restriction, and that might be relaxed to a certain extent, as they are required from time to time. Edward Musgrave, of Cowichan, retired farmer, says : I do not see any necessity for restriction as far as it has gone, and I look upon the state of affairs as temporary, and if there was any great volume of these people coming into the country I would be in favour of pressing the home government to do something, with a view to limiting the number of Chinese and Japanese to a certain number in the twelve months or something of the kind. Edward Berkley, retired captain in the Royal Navy, who is now ranching near Victoria, is postmaster, magistrate, &c, says : The Chinese are good men but the Japanese is rather better on the ranch. I would have cheap labour regardless of colour. Michael Finerty, farmer, Victoria, says : I never had any Japanese working for me. As far as I can see about them they are quick and active, but still I want white people to come into the country and make homes for themselves, people of our own race, who would make good citizens, or people of any white race who would make good Christians and good citizens. We ought to have good citizens and good protection for the country in the immigrants that are allowed to come in. James Wilson, sanitary inspector for the City of Victoria, says : I do not think there is much difference between Chinese and Japanese. I think the Japanese do a great deal more harm than the Chinese. They will work cheaper than the Chinese and 378 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 they get into the white man's ways quicker. I consider them a greater menace to the interests of labour than the Chinese. I favour their exclusion. John Legg, journeyman tailor, Victoria, says : Most of the objectionable features mentioned in connection with the Chinese apply to the Japanese. I favour their exclusion. A. M. Sandell, cutter for Lenz & Leizer, manufacturing tailors, Victoria, says : I think the Japanese are a preferable race to the Chinese. They are not as desirable as Europeans in this country. I do not think the Japanese will assimilate with our people; it would not be desirable if they were inclined to. George A. Shade, shoemaker, Victoria, says : The Japanese will come among us and learn our language. He will work for very little when he comes here in order to get an opportunity of learning our language, our habits and customs. He is more dangerous in competition than the Chinese. I do not think they are better men than the Chinese. They are an oriental race and their habits are about the same. I do not think the Japanese will make a better British subject than the Chinese. Even if they became naturalized citizens of this country I do not think they would be likely to take a stand in opposition to Japan. I do not approve of the Natal Act. There will have to be some other protection. Some of the Japanese learn to read, write and speak English before they come here. The law would -have to be prohibitory to keep those people out. William Smythe, shoe dealer, Yictoria, says : I do not think the Japanese are good citizens of this country. I think they would be more dangerous competitors if they remained in the country. Andrew Strachan, market gardener, Victoria, says : I do not think there is much difference between the Chinese and Japanese. I think they both retard the progress of agriculture in the country, for the simple reason that they are in the way with their cheap labour, or so-called cheap labour, and have driven out of the country white men who would have become actual settlers and developed the country. I think the Japanese are more inclined to adopt European methods than the Chinese. I think the Japanese are more liable to assimilitate to our manners and customs. Whether that would continue for long I do not know. The Japanese here'only adopt our dress; that is all. Robert H. Johnson, seedsman and nurseryman, Victoria, says : I would say the Japanese are a greater menace to the country than the Chinese. They will not only compete with the labourer, but they will soon compete with the proprietor in my opinion. I do not think the Japanese will assimilate with us. Frederick S. Hussey, superintendent of provincial policeYVictoria, says : I think the Japanese will be more injurious to the interests of white labour than the Chinese. They engage_in many more pursuits. They are ambitious, and get into more avenues of labour in this country. I think it would be better if their immigration were restricted, if they come in as they have been coming for the last two years. They keep to themselves. They wear our clothes, but they do not do anything to help us, and they do not assimilate with our people. The Japanese are more vicious than the Chinese, I should say inclined to fight and use weapons. The Chinese do not do that. 1 think it would be better for white people if we had no Japanese at all here. William M. Wilson, printer, Victoria, says : I would favour restriction of the immigration of Japanese. I would favour the strict application of the Natal Act. I believe the Japanese will be more likely to assimilate with us, to live like our own people, adopt our habits and mode of living, and live with us like other people. J. W. Balmain, civil engineer and architect, Victoria, says : What I have said in regard to the Chinese refers in a great measure to the Japanese. (See evidence of this witness, Chap. XXII, Part I.) This witness stated that it was not desirable that these people should assimilate with ours. He favoured restriction of their immigration. Alexander R. Milne, C.B., collector of customs for Victoria, says :—The Japanese are more dangerous competitors than the Chinese, because they labour for lower wages. I think a restriction on immigration would only excite the Japanese, because they are very sensitive as to their status as a people and a nation. I think the Japanese nation ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 379 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 has reached the stage in which they want the same privileges and amenities as are given to a first-class power. -S A. S. Emory, carpenter and joiner, Victoria, says : I think the Chinese and Japanese are equally detrimental. Of course there is a difference between the two races; one has the advantage of the other in some respects, but I consider that they are both equally detrimental to the interests and the development of our province. I think some measure should be adopted to prevent them coming into the country. The educational test, as under the Natal Act, would, I think, be a great force if it was sufficiently stringent. I do not think any Imperial interests would be in the slightest degree in danger by dealing directly with the Japanese government in arranging for a mutual restriction. Let the Japanese government restrict the immigration of white labour, unskilled white labour, into their country, and let thesame rule apply as against Japanese labour here. William George Cameron, retail clothier, Victoria, says : I think the Japanese are a better class of people than the Chinese. As far as labour is concerned I think them as dangerous as the Chinese. Samuel L. Reid, retail clothier, Victoria, says : The Japanese are not a desirable class of citizens. I do not think it would be desirable for them to intermarry with our people. I think it would be disastrous if they were permitted to come in in great num- *bers. The feeling does not.seem to be as strong against the Japanese because they seem to be more inclined to adopt European customs and seem more inclined to make themselves at home. I am in favour of prohibiting any further immigration of the Asiatic XT © J © races. John Piercy, wholesale dry goods merchant, Victoria, says : I maintain that with the present number of Japanese in the country there is quite enough to supply all demands. I think there should be restriction on them. If there were no restriction I think they would be in a short time worse than the Chinese, flooding the- country on the same principle as the Chinese do. I do not know whether we are affected by any treaty with Britain or not. International law is something I do not know anything about. © J O That would have to be discussed in Ottawa. They will have to discover some means -there, either by treaty or otherwise, of restricting the Japanese. George Gawley, fish and poultry dealer, &c, Victoria, says : The Japanese are an injury to the white and Indian fishermen. I do not think they are the right class of people for this country. Alexander Gilmour McCandless, retail clothier, Victoria, says : I favour exclusion of the Chinese and Japanese. There may be difficulties in the way as to the Japanese, but I favour the exclusion of both. I consider the Japanese superior to the Chinese. I consider there are enough Japanese here now to do all the work required for years to come, for those people who want cheap labour. Joseph Shaw, market gardener, Victoria, says : I think the Japanese are worse than the Chinese. They work for much lower wages ; when they first come they go out and work at farming for $5 or $7 a month, and when they get used to the work they get up to about $10. Robert Erskine, retail grocer, Victoria, says : The Japanese are a race that do to a certain extent ape the white race. They fall more in line with the methods of white people. Those in the province for a number of years are better than the Chinese. They compete as keenly as Chinese. Arthur L: Belyea, barrister-at-law, Victoria, says : I do not think the Japanese are more desirable than the Chinese. I qualify that only by saying that the Japanese catch on to our manners and customs faster than the Chinese. They imitate as far as they possibly can European civilization, but when it comes to be a question whether they will be European or Japanese, they are Japanese all the time. Q. Would you say our race would receive benefit by assimilation with the Japanese ?—A. I would not say. I do not like to express an opinion on that, but I would rather see no such thing as assimilation. Hugh Gilmour, M.L.^.. for Vancouver, says : The country and its interests would be better developed by white men. The country is a good place to live in. I think the 380 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION bring O their families here 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 country is good enough for anybody to live in if we only had the Chinese and Japanese out. Charles F. Dupont, capitalist, Yictoria, says : I think the Chinese are better in their habits than the Japanese. The Japanese conform more to the manners and customs of the European nations. I think the danger of the Japanese assimilating is greater, but we do not wish them to assimilate. I am opposed to anything like assimilation between any of these races. Dr. O. M. Jones, Victoria, says : As to cleanliness the Chinese and Japanese are about the same. I think they are both objectionable. I would prefer the Chinese to the Japanese if I had any preference. I think the Japanese coolie immigration ought certainly to be restricted. Q. Would you take the chances of prejudicing the Japanese Government?—A. They look upon themselves as a great power. That is a diplomatic question; but I certainly think the Japanese coolie is not desirable as a part of our population any more than the Chinese. Rev. Leslie Clay, Presbyterian minister, Victoria, says : The current idea is simply this, that the Japanese with the Chinese will not and cannot assimilate with us. I do not think the Japanese will ever assimilate with us. I do not think the Japanese will ever assimilate and become an integral part of our race. Joseph Hunter, Superintendent of E. & N. Railway, Victoria, says :—I prefer the Chinese to the Japanese as far as ability is concerned for workmen. I think the immigration of Japanese ought to be restricted. If you restrict the Chinese I do not think you should allow the Japanese to come in As far as my knowledge goes I do not think there is a great deal of difference between the Chinese and Japanese. David Spencer, merchant, Victoria, says : Further immigration into the country of this class of people (Chinese and Japanese) will be very detrimental. [ think the Japanese would assimilate with Europeans, and get homes here more readily. Robert F. Green, M.L.A. for Slocan, says integral part of the race that will develop Canada. As long as the Japanese are here we will be unable to induce the better class of immigrants to come into our province. Rev. Canon Beanlands, Victoria, says : I think there is a greater danger from the Japanese than the Chinese, and I believe there should be some restriction. I think the morality of the Japanese is much lower than that of the English labourer. I think you are certainly running a risk of danger in introducing the Japanese ideas of the race relations and of the marital relations in British Columbia. I think the Chinese are preferable to the Japanese because they are non-assimilating. If there were many Japanese coming into this country it would be desirable to restrict the immigration. I think they area more dangerous element in the country than the Chinese. William McAllan, coal miner, Nanaimo, says : I am opposed to any further immigration of Japanese. William Woodman, locomotive engineer, Nanaimo, says : I cannot detect any superiority at all between the Chinese and Japanese. I would pass legislation in the direction of fixing a minimum wage, and I am certain that would have the effect of © © ' putting both classes out. John Knowles Hickman, locomotive engineer, Nanaimo, says : I would say prohibit both the Chinese and Japanese. If the Chinese and Japanese were excluded we would have plenty of white labour, and it would not be compulsory on our young boys to walk about the streets without employment. I do not think the Japanese will ever assimilate with us. John C. McGregor, secretary of Trades and Labour Council, Nanaimo, says : The Japanese come here, do not bring their families, purchase land, or anything of the kind. They live in little old shacks and they compete with white people and work for much lower wages. In case of trouble I should think they would be more dangerous than the Chinese. They work for lower wages than the Chinese. James Cartwright, coal miner, Nanaimo, says: I think the Japanese compete worse than the Chinese, by working for less wages. All my objections to the Chinese apply to the Japanese. They would The Japanese will never become an ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 381 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Andrew Haslam, mill owner, Nanaimo says : I think the Japanese will finally be a keener competitor with the white man than the Chinaman. I do not know of anything objectionable about the Japanese. I do not think anyone will deny that the Japanese are a progressive people, and have advanced more rapidly of late than any other nation, but on the other hand their wants are so few.and their habits so simple they can live well for a very small sum of money, for a such sum that a white person could not possibly live on ; and to bring an unlimited number of these people here to enter into competition with our own white people I do not think is in the interests of the country by any means. I do not think it would be wise to persist in any regulation that would tend to irritate the Japanese people. I think the people in this province should bs prepared to sacrifice something for the sake of Imperial interests. Marshall Bray, Government agent, Nanaimo says : I am in favour of the total exclusion of the Japanese. Samuel M. Robins, superintendent of the New Vancouver Coal Company, Nanaimo, says : I never employed but one Japanese either for the company or for myself since I have been in the province. Dr. W. W. Walkem, Nanaimo says : The Japanese are a better class of people I think than the Chinese. They may after a long time become settlers, but at the present time and under the present circumstances they are not desirable as settlers. Great Britain is well able to take care of herself. I do not think that any legislation in regard to the Japanese will hurt the friendly feeling between Japan and Britain a bit. A power like the Japanese would not like to see a class of citizens come here to represent their power who from their social conditions were not desirable, and who would come into competition with the working classes here, and that therefore the government here would be called upon to legislate against them. No doubt the Japanese government would assent to that if proper representations were made to it. Andrew Brydon, manager of the Extension Colliery, near Nanaimo says : If the Japanese were permitted to come in here and the Chinese were prohibited, they would be just as great a menace to the various trades and callings in this country and to the country at large as the Chinese. I do not see any difference. Charles Edward Stevenson, presdent of the Board of Trade of Nanaimo "says : I have the pleasure to present to the Commissioners a petition from the Board of Trade of Nanaimo. It is against any further immigration of either Chinese or Japanese. It is in favour of the prohibition of further Chinese immigration and of the restriction of the Japanese by the application of the Natal Act. The Japanese are as undesirable as the I Chinese, and I think something should be done in the way of coming to an understanding with the government of Japan, if it could not be done in any other way. Edward Quenell, butcher,' Naniamo, says: We can get along very well without Japanese. I lived here when there were none of the Chinese or Japanese at all and we got along all right. Francis Deans Little, general manager of the Wellington colliery company union, says: The Chinese and Japanese are pretty much alike. I think the Chinese are stronger workers. James Abrams, stipendiary magistrate for Comox district, says : I think the Japanese should be placed in the same position as the Chinese in the matter of further immigration. John Murray, government timber inspector, Vancouver, says : I think there are enough Japanese here now. We do not want any more. The Japanese is a keener competitor in labour with the white man. Robert J. Skinner, provincial timber inspector, Vancouver, says : I favour the total prohibition of both Chinese and Japanese. Robert Marrion, health inspector for the city of Vancouver, says : I feel that the Japanese immigration is a greater menace to the country than the Chinese. The Japanese as he improves by the contact with civilization in this country becomes a very dangerous competitor. Joseph Wright, assistant health inspector, Vancouver, says : I favour the exclusion of the Japanese from this country. I look upon them as great a menace to labour as the Chinese. 382 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Robert T. Burtwell, Dominion fishery guardian, Vancouver, says : I think it would be better for the country if there were fewer Chinese and Japanese here. Albert E. Beck, district registrar of the Supreme court, Yancouver, says : I think it is a serious thing in many ways introducing a class (Chinese and Japanese coolie labour) of the kind into the country. It affects everyone. I think it a proper exercise of our authority to exclude from our shores people who will not inter*marry. The Japanese are a Mongolian race who will not assimilate with our people like the Swedes and Norwegians. If the British nation was subjected to the same conditions we are subjected to on our coast I do not think they would stand it for a moment. It is a most serious question, this naturalization of Japanese. I do not know of any law more free and easy than the Canadian Naturalization Act. The Japanese should be restricted. Richard H. Alexander, manager of the Hastings saw-mill, Yancouver, says : Q. Do you favour any further restriction on Japanese ?—A. Well, gentlemen, if you will allow me to demur from answering such a question as that, I would like to confine myself to its effect on the lumber trade. The Japanese supplies the want of the proportion of cheap labour that is necessary to compete in the markets of the world. I submit that there is great necessity that they should be here to supply that proportion of cheap labour in order that we-may employ a larger number of whites. The point is this : We have always had a certain proportion of cheap labour, and in order to operate successfully we must have it yet, and having that cheap labour we are enabled to employ white men in the higher branches of industry. Robert C. Ferguson, manager of the Royal city mills, Yancouver, says : I do not find Chinese or Japanese assimilate with our people at all. The only difference I see is that the Japanese are always trying to pick up English. I do not know whether I would be in favour of the restriction of those people coming in or not. It may be well to restrict for a time, but a man has to be governed by the wants of his business. John Valentine Cook, tallyman and lumber rater, Vancouver, says : I favour 3 J * 'J restriction of both Chinese and Japanese. My idea is that the Japanese are more dangerous than the Chinese. I would exclude any more coming in of the working class. Stephen Ramage, saw-filer, Vancouver, says : The Japanese are fast becoming to be a greater menace to the white population than the Chinese will ever get to be. They are more able-bodied and they are quicker to adapt themselves to their surroundings. Very few of them have families here. My principal objection to them is that they do not assimilate, cannot assimilate, with our race, and that our country should be for men of our own race, instead of being overrun by an alien race. Arthur C. Gordon, shingle manufacturer, Vancouver, says : I favour the restriction of Chinese and Japanese immigration. That applies more to the Japanese than to the Chinese. William C. Dickson, bookkeeper and mill yard foreman, Vancouver, says : I favour restriction being put on Japanese immigration to the extent to keep them out entirely. I think the presence of the Japanese here injures the labouring man fully as bad, if not worse, than the Chinese. John L. Anderson, fisherman, Vancouver, says : The Japanese show no indications of becoming citizens except in an illegal way. There are a large number of Japanese who have naturalization certificates who ought not to have them if that subject were gone into. The Japanese are certainly a greater menace than the Chinese. If there cannot be an exclusion law my idea would be to try and get by some diplomacy the Japanese Government to agree to limit the emigration from Japan to a certain number each year, and that number should not be increased under any circumstances. Peter Smith, fisherman, Vancouver, says : My complaint is that the Japanese have more rights in this province than the whites and Indians as far as I can see. I complain that people who are born in this country are being driven out of it by the Chinese and Japanese. As far as I can see there is no use or benefit to the country in allowing Japanese immigration into this country. We do not want to see any more of them here. I think if there are any more Japanese allowed to come to this country that there will be bloodshed. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Abel Wenken, brickmaker, Vancouver, says : My view is that the system of living among the Chinese and Japanese does harm to white men. I would say have exclusion. I do not see that there is any difference between the Chinese and Japanese. Francis Williams, journeyman tailor, Vancouver, says : The Japanese are a very objectionable class of people to come into our country. Angus M. Stewart, clothing manufacturer, Vancouver, says : I would be in favour of keeping the Japanese out just the same as I am in favour of keeping out the Chinese, because if they are not restricted they will very soon become as great an evil as the Chinese, as far as I can make out. William Lawrence Fagan, provincial assessor and collector for the county of Vancouver, says : The Japanese do not seem to care about making homes here. They do not take up land. They do not seem to care about settling here. They come here and make a few hundred dollars and then go back to Japan if they can get away. If you had something to put -in their places I would restrict more of them coming here. John M. Bowell, collector of customs, Vancouver, says : I am in favour of the Natal Act. Benjamin F. Rogers, manager of the sugar refinery, Vancouver, says : It would be impossible to exclude the Japanese. The Imperial Government would never agree to that. Truman S. Baxter, law student, Vancouver, says : I am in favour of prohibition of further immigration of Chinese and Japanese. I think that either by enactnfent or by treaty with the Japanese Government they can arrange to either restrict immigration or prohibit immigration altogether from Japan. There would be no objection whatever in passing an Act similar to the Natal Act. Mr. Joseph Chamberlain has said so much. Andrew Linton, boat builder, Vancouver, says : I put the Japanese on the same basis as the Chinese, if not worse. I think they are more dangerous to the country than the Chinese. Henry Mundon, boat builder, Vancouver, says : I would favour the exclusion of Japanese from this country. Alfred Wallace, boat builder, Vancouver, says : I think we have enough here at the present time of the Japanese. I would be opposed to further immigration of either Chinese or Japanese. Richard Marpole, superintendent of the Pacific Division Canadian Pacific Railway, Vancouver, says : Japanese labour in my opinion is fully equal to Italian labour. Alfred Raper, miner, Texada Island, says : I think it would be much better for the island and much better for the province at large if we had fewer Chinese and Japanese here. I favour the exclusion of these people from the country. Rev. Edmund E. Scott, Methodist minister, Vancouver, says: They are awakening to the fact in Japan now that too many of their people have emigrated here, and I have no doubt there will be little difficulty in arranging the whole matter with the Japanese government. I think Japanese immigration is not desirable. Rev. R. G. McBeth, Presbyterian minister, Yancouver, says: I have formed a more favourable opinion of the Japanese as a class. I am satisfied the Japanese I have come in contact with are brighter and more liable to assimilate with the Anglo-Saxon race than the Chinese. They take more kindly to our institutions and customs because they are not under the same superstition as the Chinese from a religious standpoint. John Morton, secretary of the parliamentary committee of the trades and Labour Council, Vancouver, says: The skilled trades claim that the Japanese are worse than the Chinese because they are a class of people more likely to enter the skilled trades than the Chinese. I do not want them on any consideration at all. If the Japanese will associate with me and live in the same way as I do I would not object to him, but he wont do it; he simply refuses to do it. Walter Taylor, fruit canner, Vancouver, says: I think we have got too many Japanese here now. I think in a great many cases if the Japanese were not here white labour would take their places. Sufficient white labour could be found, to take their places. 384 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Frank Burnett, canner, Vancouver, says: I think there are enough Japanese here now. As far as the Japanese are concerned I think the Japanese are no more objectionable immigrants than the slavs from Europe. I think the desired further restriction of Japanese could be obtained by negotiations. Henry O. Bell-Irving, canner, Vancouver, says: I am rather in for free trade in labour for some time to come. I believe it will be the best policy. I consider that the restriction of labour will act very detrimentally to the prosperity of the country. For the development of this country we must have cheaper labour than we have now; otherwise development will be retarded and the population will -increase very slowly. Take the mines for instance; only mines that are exceedingly rich can be worked under present conditions, whereas with cheaper labour the miners will be steadily employed, the miners would work systematically, they would have steady work right through, but as at present the cost of working the mines being very high, and in consequence a large number of mines have had to close down. Samuel McPherson, merchant tailor, Vancouver, says : As far as this province is concerned I think it would be a good thing if they (Japanese) were restricted, because they work so cheap ; they work cheaper than,a white man possibly can. Alexander McCallum, merchant tailor, of Vancouver, says: The Merchant Tailors' Association of Vancouver are opposed to further immigration of the Japanese. Gordon W. Thomas, farmer, Vancouver, says : I think something should be done at once to* stop the further flow of Chinese and Japanese into this country. The one is just as injurious to the settlement of the country as the other. The Emperor of Japan I believe has expressed himself in favour of restriction. It would be impossible for a white man to maintain his family and to educate his children on $15 a month, and that will soon be the wage if these people are allowed to come in. N. C. Show, journalist, reeve of Burnaby, says : We are strongly in favour of restriction of Japanese immigration by some kind of convention with Japan. It seems to me that this can be arranged on a fair and equitable basis by arranging with the Japanese government that they will not allow more than a small percentage of labour emigrants to come to Canada in proportion to our working population, the Japanese stipulating in return for the same restriction on Canadian labour immigration. Japan would thus assert her position as an equal sovereign power with Great Britain, by the restriction of Canadian immigration to Japan. Honourable James Reid, senator for Cariboo, says: I think as far as labour is concerned they (Japanese) are a greater danger than the Chinese. I think if restriction is applied to the Chinese it should be applied to the Japanese as wellJ^Uf they are a detriment to the country, the restriction should be applied to them as well as to any others. I think that could be done through the Imperial Government. I think the Japanese immigration to this country could be arranged between Japan and the Imperial Government, and so many allowed to come in each year without there being any friction at all. John M. Duval, wood-turner, Vancouver, says : Japanese labour is more dangerous than the Chinese, and my objections to the Chinese apply equally to the Japanese with more so. James G. Scott, mayor of New Westminster, says : My objection to the Japanese is that they may invade other industries in the country and come into competition with our own people more keenly than the Chinese. James Anderson, canner, New Westminster, says : My opinion is to get rid of both the Chinese and Japanese, if the conditions will allow it. I think you can do better without the Japanese than you can without the Chinese. Henry T. Thrift, farmer, secretary - of the Settlers' Association of British Columbia, New Westminster, says : Any distinction as far as I have been able to decide is that the Japanese are more dangerous than the Chinese, on account of their superior intelligence. The presence of the Chinese and Japanese here hinders the better class of people coming in here and settling up the vacant lands of the province. William J. Brandrith, secretary of the British Columbia Fruit Growers' Association New Westminster, says : I believe they (the association) are all in favour of total pro- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 385 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 immigration of that class here. It applies equally to the Chinese b of Surrey, says : Farmers in my neighbourhood are hibition of any further and Japanese. John Armstrong, farmer, , in favour of prohibiting further immigration. They are distinctly against any more coming in. That applies fully as much to Japanese as to Chinese. Henry Haggaman, expressman, New Westminster, says : I am opposed to further immigration of the Japanese. George H. West, fisherman, New Westminster, says: I think the further restriction of Japanese immigration is absolutely necessary. Hezekiah Stead, fisherman, New Westminster, says: I have nothing good to say about the Japanese. They are detrimental to our interests and to the interests of the country altogether. They are detrimental to the working man in every way. They work so low and they can live on so very little, that it is impossible for white labourers to live in the cities and pay taxes and pay rents for houses. I know that some of us have tried it and have failed. George Mackie, fisherman, New Westminster, says : If they (Chinese and Japanese) continue to come in here I will either have to leave or to starve. Circumstances cannot better with these people here. The .Mongolians have cut me out of everything as well as they have done in the fishing. I have applied at various places, at sawmills and factories, for employment, and cannot get it. During the three years I have been here I have only been able to secure work for four months outside of the fisheries. John Perry Bowell, Methodist minister, New Westminster, says : I consider the immigration of Chinese and Japanese to be detrimental to the labour interests of the country, mainly because a great many avenues of industry where white people used to be largely employed are now being monopolized by the Chinese and Japanese. I think the fact that the Japanese is better qualified to adapt himself to the conditions prevailing here makes him a greater menace than the Chinaman to our own labour people. N. J. Coulter, vice-president of the Grand Lodge of the Fishermen's Union of B.C., New Westminster, says : I am opposed to further immigration of the Japanese; firstly, because they cannot and never will assimilate and become amalgamated with the wThite citizens of this country ; secondly, because they labour cheaper than a white man can afford to work and live \ and thirdly, in the fishing industry they are not individual but contract labour, which in my opinion is not the standard of British Columbia or of the British Empire, and is contrary to all the traditions of British subjects. George Hargreaves, painter, New Westminster, says : I am strongly opposed to further immigration of Japanese. E. Goulet, Canadian Pacific Railway agent, Kamloops, says : I do not think the Japanese will ever assimilate with our people, and it would not be a good thing if they did. M. P. Gordon, mayor of Kamloops, says: I think it would be beneficial to the country to restrict the Japanese coming in, to the same extent as the Chinese. I think the reason for excluding the Chinese would be greater than for excluding the Japanese. Albert Riordan, miner, Kamloops, says : Out here at the Glen Mine the foreman wanted me to work with the Japanese and I quit I would not work with the Japanese. I favour absolute exclusion of both the Chinese and Japanese. Joseph McGee, secretary of the Labourers' union, Kamloops, says : I represent the Labourers' Union of this town. They consider that the Chinese and Japanese are a detriment to white labour, and though the union are aware that the Chinese and Japanese are not as plentiful as at the coast cities, yet they feel that the effect of the invasion of the Chinese and Japanese has had on the coast is the same as it is here, and they express themselves that the union is decidedly in favour of the total exclusion of Chinese and Japanese from the Province of British Columbia. Dr. James W. Cross, health officer, Revelstoke, says : We have no Japanese in this town except in railway work, but I would prefer to see prohibition of both Chinese and Japanese. Robert B. Farwell, machinist, Revelstoke, says : They are in every sense a most undesirable class of immigrants. They retard the progress of the country and keep good 54_25 i 386 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION f 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 immigrants from coming in here. If they were not here white men would take their places. I would favour preventing the Japanese coming into this country. James C. Tunstall, mining recorder, Vernon, says : The Japanese are just as bad as the Chinese. There is just as much opposition to the Japanese as to the Chinese, as far as the labour question is concerned. Joseph Harwood, expressman, Vernon, says : I favour total exclusion of Chinese and Japanese from the country. The Japanese are just as objectionable as the Chinese. J. B. McArthur, mine operator, Rossland, says: I do not think legislation for or against the Chinese or Japanese would interfere with the investment of capital in this section. Of course, there may be Imperial and State reasons for dealing with Japanese differently from the way in which you would deal with the Chinese. That is something I cannot say anything about, but I "will say this,—we can help to solve the question by representing to the Imperial Government that these people are an injury to our own people. Honourable Smith Curtis, M. L. A. for Rossland, says : I am strongly in favour not only of restriction, but of exclusion of all oriental races. The opinion throughout the country I believe is practically unanimous. It is almost a unanimous opinion of all classes that there should be no immigration of this class of labour into British Columbia. If there are any reasons why it is inexpedient to adopt this course ($500 poll tax) against the Japanese for Imperial reasons, we ought to have restriction on the lines of what is known as the Natal Act, providing an educational test on emigrants, and that should be brought into force without delay. That is a method that has been suggested by the Colonial Secretary, the Right Honourable Joseph Chamberlain, and can hardly be objected to by the Imperial authorities. John C. Egan, journalist, Rossland, says : What little I have seen of them (Japanese) I think they are as undesirable a class of citizens as the Chinese are in this country. Frank E. Woodside^ secretary of miners' union, Rossland, says: Lthink that the immigration of Japanese should be prevented entirely. Edmund B. Kerby, manager of the War Eagle and Centre Star, Rossland, says : I do not think that it is for the best interests of the community to have an unlimited supply of Chinese and Japanese labour coming into the country. Bernard Macdonald, manager of the British American Corporation, Rossland, says : My knowledge of the Japanese is not extensive, but I think they are preferable to the Chinese because they are more progressive, and therefore more profitable. Thomas H. Long, sanitary inspector, Rossland, says : I think the Japanese should be excluded from the country. James Devine, miner, Rossland, says : I am in favour of exclusion of both Chinese and Japanese. Bullock Webster, provincial chief constable for West Kootenay, says : I find that the Japanese are honest, are better men than the Chinese, and their manner of living is more similar to that of white men. I think that the restriction of Japanese immigration is desirable. Charles Hillyer, sawmill proprietor, Nelson, says: I consider that if the Chinese and Japanese are allowed to come in freely, in 25 years the white man will be the slave and the Chinese or .Japanese the boss. John Houston, M. L. A. for Nelson, says : They do not assimilate with English speaking people, and from my standpoint no race of people that cannot assimilate with ours is desirable, whether they be Chinese, Japanese or Europeans. I certainly would take the risk, if risk there is, of offending the Japanese nation. I do not know any good reason why our people should be degraded, and I do not see any reason why we should not be on good terms with the Japanese government, even if we did exclude the Japanese from the country. Self-preservation is the first law of nature and we cannot get over it. Gustave A. Carlson, mayor of Kaslo, says : Personally I don't think we should have any more here than we have. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 387 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 AMERICAN OPINION. W. H. Perry, assistant general manager of Moran Brothers, Seattle, says : We have never employed Japanese. If I had to choose between an immigration of the one or the other I would prefer the Chinese. J. W. Clise, president of the Chamber of Commerce, Seattle; says : There is no disposition at present to exclude the Japanese, but the people do not feel any more kindly inclined to the Japanese than to the Chinese. A. H. Grout, labour commissioner, Seattle, says : There is a distinction between the Chinese and Japanese. The average Japanese is more intelligent, adapts himself more readily to our ways, and to that extent is looked upon with more favour. There has been quite a little agitation against them in the last few years. Theodore Ludgate, mill owner, Seattle, formerly of Peterborough, says : If the Japanese come here in large numbers and conflict with white labour, the agitation would soon be acute, and the government would find some way of excluding them the same as © «/ © the Chinese. W. H. Middleton, secretary of the Western Central Labour Bureau, Seattle, says : The Japanese are looked upon as a more serious danger to white labour than the Chinese. The people generally are in favour of the same exclusion being applied to the Japanese as has been applied to the Chinese. A strong effort will be made to make the laws the same with regard to the Japanese as it is now in regard to the Chinese. The Japanese are looked upon as a greater menace than the Chinese at the present time. A. S. Martin, secretary Puget Souud sawmill and shingle company, Fairhaven, Washington, says : The sentiment here is opposed to both Chinese and Japanese. If the matter* were put to the popular vote not one would be allowed in town. E. B. Deming, manager Pacific American Fishing Company, Fairhaven, Wash., says : Japanese are unsatisfactory. We would not think of employing them as Chinese are. I prefer white labour at higher wages to Japanese. S. E. Masten, secretary of the Board of Trade, Portland, Oregon, says : We would rather not have the coolie class here. We would rather not have Japanese labour coming in here at all. , H. S. Rowe, mayor of Portland, Oregon, says : Very few of our people favour either the Chinese or the Japanese. The Japanese are getting more and more into domestic service here. They seem to take more to our ways and to be more inclined to settle here. I would not like to see this class of people filling up the State of Oregon. W. J. Honeyman, merchant, Portland, Oregon, says : The Japanese do not appear to be satisfactory as servants, and they are not considered as good on railroad work. Thev are not as reliable in my experience. A. A. Bailey, secretary of the federated trades, Portland, Oregon, says : The objection now is as great to the Japanese as it has ever been to the Chinese. J. M. Lawrence, city editor Oregonian, Portland, says : I do not think the Japanese are any better than the Chinese. There would be irritation here if large numbers of Japanese were coming in, but I do not anticipate any danger from that question now. I think we have sufficient numbers of Japanese here now. We do not require any more of them, and if it can be arranged by diplomatic means that there will be an exclusion of the Japanese as there is an exclusion of the Chinese, the country will be benefitted. T. M. Crawford, labour agent, Portland, says : The Chinese will not work for as low wages as the Japanese will. Here we get the worst class of the Japanese. It may be called the coolie class. They are a low type and an ignorant class. They answer all questions very nearly verbatim. They have been trained by the contractors who go to Japan. R. Ecclestone, immigration officer, San Francisco, says: The Japanese coming in here are of the very lowest class. They work cheaper than the Chinese. Very few families come in. If they come here in large numbers there will be a similar agitation to that against the Chinese twenty years ago. J. H. Barbour, immigration officer, San Francisco, says : People prefer the Chinese to the Japanese when they can get them. They are more reliable than the Japanese. The sentiment amongst the labour unions is that the Japanese is a stronger competitor. 54_25i 388 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 H. F. Fortman, president of the Alaska Packers' Association, San Francisco, says : I would apply the same restriction to the Japanese as to the Chinese ; in fact if I could I would double the tax on the Japanese, simply because they are not to be preferred to the Chinese. The Chinese are more reliable and law-abiding ; even the Japanese consider the Chinese more reliable and more honest in their acts. In every Japanese bank and in every large Japanese institution you will find a Chinese compadpre as cashier or manager. I think the trade with China is increasing more rapidly than our trade with Japan. F. V. Meyers, commissioner of the bureau of labour statistics, San Francisco, says : The general feeling in the community is in favour of the continuance of the Exclusion © © J Act in regard to the* Chinese and to have the same measure of exclusion extended to the Japanese as well. The question of Japanese immigration is becoming acute. When the agitation for the Exclusion Act is broiight up again, there will be a very pronounced agitation to have the Exclusion Act extended to prevent the Japanese coming in. James D. Phelan, mayor of San Francisco, says : There is no preference here for the Japanese. They have the reputation of being less reliable. From our experience the Chinese observe the obligations of business more carefully, but the Japanese seem to be 'more ambitious to advance themselves aiong the line of western civilization, but they do not assimilate. They keep themselves a good deal by themselves. TRADE WITH JAPAN. ||£| The following figures show that Canada's trade with Japan is very small. In 1900 the imports were valued at $1,762,534, of which $1,301,215 were free, and $461,319 dutiable. Of the goods admitted free of duty, tea amounted to $1,276,736. It may be noticed that settlers' effects amounted to $952, and for the previous year $97. The exports for 1900 were valued at $112,308, of which $47,773 was fish and fish products, and $21,946 lumber and wood manufactures, breadstuff's $6,471, provisions, butter, cheese, &c, $3,049. The following table shows the imports, and exports since 1896 inclusive :— Imports. Exports 1896. $ 1,648,232 8,253 1897. 1,329,980 141,946 1898. f J, 458,233 148,728 1899. 2,009,747 135,265 1900. 1,762,534 112,308 The increase of American trade with Japan is largely made up of two items,— cotton and flour. Its development is indicated by the following table:— COTTON EXPORTS TO JAPAN FROM UNITED STATES. Wheat Flour.. 1898, 1897. 1898. 1,481,056 286,111 I 2,345,016 819,620 7,428,226 644.039 1899. 1900. 5,775,784 722,710 12,712,619 1,554,739 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 389 CHAPTER VI.—PART I.—RESUME. CHAP. I. JAPANESE IMMIGRATION. From fourteen to fifteen thousand Japanese have arrived in British Columbia within the last five years. Of these over ten thousand arrived in one year, namely, between July 1, 1899, and July 1, 1900. No record is kept of the number that have returned to Japan. Many have gone to the United States, leaving only 4,759 Japanese in Canada,—according to the last census,—of whom 4,578 are in British Columbia, nearly all of whom are adult males of the labouring class. The total number of Japanese admitted through the ports of Washington State from July 1, 1898, to November 13, 1900, was 13,401, of whom 266 were rejected. 2,500 Japanese entered the States of Washington and California from Canada by card. Washington State has 4,532 Japanese males and 185 Japanese females ; Oregon State, 2,405 males and 96 females. The number of Japanese in the United States, as given by the last census, is 86,000, of whom 61,111 are in Hawaii, and 24,326 in the United States proper, of which number 23,376 are in the Western States. CAUSE OF THIS LARGE INFLUX. The most probable cause assigned for this large, immigration of Japanese seems to be that the emigration agencies in Japan had booked a large number of emigrants for Honolulu, that about the time they were aboard ship the bubonic plague with its resulting quarantine appeared at Honolulu, and prevented the emgrants being sent there. The agencies rather than surrender then commissions induced the emigrants to go to the United States and Canada instead; and that, owing to the American Alien Act, many came to British Columbia that were really destined for the United States. In this connection it may also bs mentioned, that six out of the twelve companies. in Japan organized to promote emigration have agents in the United States and Canada, and, taking advantage of favourable conditions, fostered the emigration of Japanese to the United States and Canada as a matter of business for the sake of the accruing commissions. Wages are very low in Japan, particularly of the class that come to Canada, namely, fishermen, domestic servants, farm and other labourers. Farm labourers are said to receive from 15 to 17 cents a day, fishermen 19 to 20 cents a day, domestic servants $1.40 to $1.50 a month, and other servants 80 cents a month. THEIR HOMES. It is said by a high authority, that the wants of the people are few and easily supplied, their homes simple, their furniture limited and cheap, and their clothing scant and inexpensive. Their houses are of wood, light and airy and generally one storey high, the floors are covered with mats and serve at once for seats and for beds; a Japanese simply folding himself in his outer cOat and stretching himself on the matted floor ; the window frames are movable, filled with oil paper instead of glass, the furniture is on the same simple plan. Everywhere, however, it is said you will admire the cleanliness observed in these homes. One witness stated that an ordinary Japanese house would cost about $20. THEIR EMPLOYMENT IN BRITISH COLUMBIA. On arrival, the Japanese hnmigrant seeks work wherever unskilled labour is employed,—as domestic servants, farm labourers, in getting out shingle bolts, wood, 390 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 cordwood, and in the mines to a limited extent. They are also employed on the railways, in sawmills, shingle mills, boat building, and large numbers engage in fishing during the season. A few are employed as tailors and in other trades. Their average wage is from 90 cents to $1 day. Their competition is keenly felt in the fisheries, in the sawmills, and in getting out wood, shingle bolts and mining timber, in boat building and to a less extent in the mines and railways. They are generally regarded as more J J © J © dangerous competitors than the Chinese. It ts said he adapts himself more readily to our civilization, that the Chinese will do the lowest kind of labour and stick to it, while the Japanese will get higher if he can. They live at a cost that enables them to work for wages at which a white man cannot compete. They work under contract much as the Chinese do, and are hired by the boss Japanese who takes the contract. He is often a merchant or a regular contractor who makes his profits chiefly on the supplies furnished the men. In no case do their wages appear to be higher than that paid to the Chinese in the same calling, and in many places it is lower. SANITATION. On their first arrival there is the same difficulty in getting them to comply with sanitary regulations that there is with the Chinese, but after a few citations before the magistrate they are more attentive to the requirements of the law and give less trouble i this regard. They do not live in aggregations in a particular part of the town, as the Chinese do, but their boarding houses are frequently overcrowded to the same extent. CHAP. II. PART I. THE FISHERIES. Prior to 1896, comparatively few Japanese* were engaged in the fisheries. In that year we find 452 licenses were issued to Japanese. In 1897 787 licenses. 1898 : 768 I 1899 930 " 1900 1,892 I 1901 1,958 I This does not show the total number of Japanese engaged in the fisheries. In 1900 542 licenses, and in 1901, 548 licenses were issued to canners; of these a considerable number are given to Japanese; about 2,000 licenses were held by the Japanese for the. years 1900 and 1901 ; there are two men to a boat, so that between four and five thousand Japanese are engaged in the fisheries. This number ought to represent, and would under normal conditions, represent, a population of from fifteen to twenty thousand people, resident in the land, building up homes, supporting schools and churches, and forming an integral part of a settled and civilized community. Nothing of this obtains among the Japanese engaged in this industry. Very few indeed bring their wives with them. Many of them return to Japan after the fishing season is over, and the rest find employment where they can, in getting out wood and bolts, in mills, boat building and other employments, working at a wage upon which a white man cannot decently support himself and his family, and creating a feeling so pronounced and bitter among a large class of whites, as to endanger the peace and be a fruitful source of international irritation. Thus this great industry, instead of becoming a source of strength, is a source of contention and weakness. It is essential to the well-being of the community that a permanent class of fishermen be fostered, householders and residents upon the land, and, if possible, owners of small holdings, who may by this natural industry be assisted in making their livelihood and be enabled to support themselves and their families while clearing the land. The evidence made it clear that the larger number of Japanese become naturalized,/ not to become citizens of the country, but to enable them to obtain fishermen's licenses. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 391 Nearly the entire number of Japanese who have become naturalized, take out fishing licenses, and but few of those who do not take out licenses become naturalized. THE NUMBER THAT HAVE TAKEN OUT NATURALIZATION PAPERS. Since 1896 over one thousand have become naturalized at Vancouver, as against 7 O 400 whites and 160 Chinese during the same period. TOO MANY FISHERMEN ON THE RIVER. The total number of licenses has increased from 3,533 in 1896 to 4,722 in 1901, and this increase has occurred principally upon the Fraser River. While the licenses have increased by 1,189, the number of Japanese licenses has increased by 1,506. Owing to this overcrowding many fishermen stated that they had to leave the business. The bitter feeling among the fishermen, caused by their being crowded out by the Japanese, was much enhanced by the fact that grave irregularities, if not actual fraud, were practised in obtaining certificates of naturalization by the Japanese in very many cases. The fare is low, and many Japanese come over for the fishing season and return in the fall. Many of these are engaged as pullers by the Japanese fishermen, the regulations not requiring that boat pullers for fishermen should be British subjects. Many of these boat pullers who had not complied with the requirements of the law as to residence received naturalization papers. A notary public, whose commission has since been revoked, referring to those who had been naturalized, said that most of these people were boat pullers and had gone to Japan and were now returning so that they could get naturalized to go fishing. He said that the mass of other affidavits that were taken to obtain naturalization papers were of the same class. Other evidence established the fact beyond all doubt that naturalization papers were granted to Japanese that ought not to have been granted. The assistant inspector of Fisheries stated that it occurred to him last year that a great many Japanese had secured their citizen papers without complying with lawful conditions. A perusal of the evidence raises a strong presumption of fraud. WHITE FISHERMEN FORCED OUT. The fact that white fishermen are being forced out of this industry and that Japanese are taking then places was clearly established. It works out in this way : In a short season the fish caught are so few in proportion to the number of fishermen that it does not pay. When there is a big run so many fish are caught that the number received by the canner is limited, and thousands are thrown away, and a lesser number of fishermen could catch all the canneries can pack. In either case a lesser number of fishermen and a lesser number of canneries on the Fraser River would benefit both the the canners and the fishermen. (See Summary of Evidence, Part I, Chap. XV, Canneries.) It was stated by the canners that the adoption of trap nets on the American side had greatly disturbed their business. The canning industry on Puget Sound is almost wholly dependent on the run of salmon that would otherwise enter the Fraser River, and not only do they deplete the supply, but place their pack in competition with the Fraser River canners in the markets of the world, although not to the same extent as the Alaska pack. It was further stated by the canners that the adoption of similar methods, on the Canadian side would greatly lessen the number of Japanese fishermen. PROTEST BY INDIAN CHIEFS. The chiefs of the different tribes of coast Indians of southern British Columbia gave evidence before the Commission, and strongly protested against the immigration of Chinese and Japanese. They explained that when the white people came and took up 392 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 lands and asked the Indians to work they were much pleased to get work and get wages; they had something to depend on, and were pleased that the white people were living where the Indians could get work. When the Chinese came they brought no family; in a little while the Japanese came and they were worse than the Chinese, and it seemed as if the Indians had no right to stay in the place at all. Formerly they used to get steady work all the time; now they cannot get regular employment, because of the Japanese and Chinese. The evidence quoted in Chapter II—Protests of Indian Chiefs—fairly represents the views of all. They favour keeping Chinese and Japanese out of the country, and say that the Japanese are the worse of the two. Probably one of the most important matters connected with this inquiry, is the rapid manner in which the Japanese are getting control of the salmon fisheries of British Columbia. The extent of the encroachment may be gathered from the fact that J © in 1896 there were less than a thousand Japanese engaged in this industry, while in 1901 the number had increased to over four thousand. Should Japanese be permitted to come into this country without restriction it cannot be doubted that this encroachment will continue until the Japanese will have control of this business. The general consensus of opinion given by both the fishermen and the canners would indicate that this industry is hot dependent for its existence upon the employment of these people. The fact that this industry has expanded to almost its present proportions, employing only whites and Indians, would indicate that the presence of the Japanese is not essential to its successful operation. The fisheries should be utilized to promote the permanent settlement of the country, and at the same time create a hardy class from whom may be drawn recruits for the mercantile marine and navy. The increased numbers of the Japanese prevent this. They come for a temporary purpose; they send a large proportion of their earnings to Japan; they do not bring their families or make homes, or in any sense become permanent settlers, and an industry which ought to be a source of strength to the^country is rapidly falling into the hands of those who exploit it for a temporary purpose to the exclusion of our own people and to the permanent injury of the country. In any event the rapid trend under existing conditions towards the monopolization of the fishing by Japanese, followed by the withdrawal of white men, on account of this overcrowding and of the diminishing profits in the business, is a matter which deserves most careful consideration. Salmon fishing has always afforded an opportunity for remuneration much greater than could be obtained in the same time from inside work which is done by the Chinese, and in this branch of the industry the Japanese are paid exactly the same as white men. Whatever necessity there may or may not be for Chinese to do the canning work, there is undoubtedly much less reason for the Japanese fishermen, who displace the white man at a white man's remuneration. It is bad enough to have one branch of the industry entirely in the hands of an alien race, who do not settle in the country, whose assimilation is impossible, and whose presence is accounted for simply for the exploitation of the opportunites of labour and its remuneration; but when the other main branch of the industry—the one which is most profitable and natural for full grown men to occupy, and is also the natural and necessary help for the actual settler—is also filled by another alien people who, in so far as permanent settlement and the general interest of the country is concerned, is equally undesirable, the seriousness of the situation can be understood. Of the twenty thousand engaged in the industry at present one half are either Chinese or Japanese. The number of Japanese is rapidly increasing. It ) is only a question of time, under existing conditions until the industry is wholly in their hands, and until it is only possible for our own people to be interested in occupations and employments incidental to the industry itself. PART II.^BOAT BUILDING. Boat building, especially that branch of the trade called into existence by the salmon industry, is closely identified with it. In the earlier period fishermen came from ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 393 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 the Maritime Provinces, Newfoundland, Scotland and European countries and had been trained to the business, and many of them were boat builders as well as fishermen. As the salmon industry increased the boats were built exclusively by white men, some firms employing as many as ten boat builders paying good wages and their business thus forming an important adjunct to this great industry. The trade has now passed largely into the hands of the Japanese, except the boats built by the one large firm of shipbuilders in Vancouver that employ 64 hands, exclusively union labour. The individual boat builder of this class has practically been driven out of the field. The Japanese who build the boats engage also in fishing. The evidence establishes the following facts : That the white man without expensive machinery cannot compete with the Japanese in building fishing boats, and have been driven out of the business. A large proportion of this class of boats are now built by the Japanese, many finding employment in this business; the rest are built at a factory where union wages are paid. The Japanese do not employ machinery; their boats are hand-built ; if they did use machinery the manager of the boat factory declared that he could not compete, and that if a company started who employed Japanese and used machinery he would have to cut wages or shut down. If the selling price were reduced in the next four years as in the last four years, the factory could not compete at the same wages and cost of material. While fishermen get cheaper fishing boats, they lose more than they gain bv the competition of Japanese fishermen. All*whites engaged in this business are opposed to further immigration of Japanese. The industry is a good illustration of the effect of oriental labour on white labour. It developed into a thriving trade exclusively by white labour, giving employment to large numbers of men that enabled them to live and support their families. The fishermen paid good prices for their boats and did well in the fisheries. The Japanese came in, displaced to a large extent the labour employed in this industry and entered into competition with the fishermen. He has driven out all labour except that employed in the large machine fitted factory. Should the white men in the factories give place to the Japanese labour the same argument might be presented as is now made in respect of other industries,—the business cannot be carried on without cheap labour. Cheap labour oreates the condition which afterwards is said to make it necessary. CHAP. Ill, PART I.—THE LUMBER INDUSTRY. The Japanese are not employed in lumber camps, except a few in building roads, <fcc. There are employed in and about the mills on the coast, referred to in the foce- going table. O ©■ Whites % 924 Japanese 461 Chinese 263* •In the upper country there are comparatively few employed ;" in most of the mills none. For instance the Yale Mill Company, with its head office at Rossland, and controlling the mills at Rossland, Nakusp, Cascade, Roche Creek and Deadwood, and employing 200 men, employ no Japanese or Chinese in or about the mills. Neither Japanese nor Chinese are employed in the mills at Nelson and Kaslo. The Japanese are paid from 90 cents to $1.00 a day and board themselves; in a few instances they are paid as high as $1.25 a day. For unskilled white labour the average is from $1.50 to $2 and for semi-skilled from $2 to $2.50, and skilled labour from $2.50 to $3.50, and in a few instances $4.50 and $5,—the fact being that nearly all of the strictly common labour in and about the mills and yards is performed by the Japanese and Chinese. It may be noted here that the mills upon the Sound with one exception employ only white labour, and the average paid for' unskilled labour is from $1.75 to $2 a 394 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 day, the larger number being employed at $2 a day, and for skilled and semi-skilled labour the wages run up to $3.50 and even $4 and $5 a day. It was alleged by some that the employment of Japanese and Chinese enabled the mill owners to pay, and they did pay, higher wages to their white employees than are paid in the mills on the Sound, but a careful comparison of the wages paid by each does- not sustain this view. They may vary a little, but upon the whole the wages paid to white labour appear to be rather higher on the Sound than are paid to white men in the Canadian mills, and when you take into account the fact that no Japanese or Chinese are .employed on the Sound, the wages there paid are certainly higher than the wages paid in British Columbia. The Chinese are paid rather more than the Japanese, and for this, or some other reason, the Japanese have in a number of cases filled the places formerly occupied by, Chinese. As a rule they only perform the work of unskilled labour, but in some cases, they have taken the places of sawyers and do other work requiring more or less skill. The mill owners differ as to the expediency of shutting them out. The manager of the largest exporting mill thinks we have plenty of them here now. Many of the' other managers agree with him; but others, while admitting that there are sufficient in the country to meet the present demand, fear that there might in the future be a scarcity if no more came in. The evidence establishes the following facts : That the Japanese are employed in the coast mills approximately in the proportion of one to four. That they have to a considerable extent taken the place of Chinese'at a slightly less wage. That they are employed as unskilled labourers in and about the mills, and in some instances are employed as sawyers and for other skilled work. That their wages vary from 85 cents to $1.25 per diem, the average being about $1 per day, or a little less. That there is a sufficient supply to meet the demands at the present time and for some years to come. That they work for a wage at which it would be impossible for a white man to support himself and his family with comfort, or even decency. That they are enabled to work for this low wage by their manner of living. Except in very few instances they do not bring their families with them. They frequently live together, somewhat similar to the Chinese, but have a reputation of being more cleanly. That they are more dangerous competitors to white labour than the Chinese, because they are more energetic and pushing, work at even a less wage, live as cheaply, and are said to be quicker at learning our language and picking up our ways, &c. PART II- -SHINGLE BOLTS, MINING TIMBER AND CORDWOOD. At certain seasons of the year, when not engaged in fishing, there are approximately a thousand Japanese employed in getting out shingle bolts, cordwood and mining timber for Mexico. The whites and Indians have been practically driven out of the business, and the Chinese have been largely superseded. Last February several hundreds of Japanese were engaged in cutting cordwood *bn Mayne Island. They delivered it free on board the scows at from $1.80 to $2 a cord. The Japanese contractors make little profit at these figures. Their profits are chiefly on supplies which they furnish their men. " A few years ago white men got out all the timber for Mexico mines. This is now J © © done by Japanese under Japanese contractors. Several cargoes are taken out each year. Shingle bolts are chiefly gotten out by Japanese under Japanese contractors, the contractor receiving 5 cents a cord as his profit.and the profit on the supplies which he furnishes. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION 395- SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 One firm engaged in the manufacture of shingles paid out $44,000 for shingle bolts, of which $36,000 was paid to Chinese and Japanese, chiefly Japanese, and $4,000 to white men. The Japanese work more cheaply than the Chinese and are rapidly driving them out of these fields of industry. Their manner of living in camps is very similar to that of the Chinese and a white man cannot compete with them. From the evidence of some of the shingle manufacturers it did seem at first that it would be difficult to carry on the business except through the agency of this cheap labour, without cutting the prices of the white men who are still engaged in the business, but subsequent evidence from a large manufacturer of shingles established the fact that it was cheaper to get out shingle bolts in the log, exclusively by white men, than to buy shingle bolts, even from Japanese, and this has been found to be so in the mills in Washington State. There are some places doubtless where this method could not be advantageously adopted. The employment of so many Japanese in this business has largely displaced white labour and has further increased the difficulty which small landholders have in making a living. It practically prevents him from realizing something from his wood and timber and from utilizing his time to the best advantage and so assisting him in supporting his family during the tedious and expensive process of clearing the land. Formerly shingle bolts and cordwood were chiefly gotten out by white labour. All this is being changed ; the white man is practically driven from this field, and its effect upon the settlement of the country is undoubtedly very serious. ' The condition of the Japanese sometimes is that of absolute want. The provincial immigration agent stated that on their arrival at Mayne Island. last year to commence © © J J wood-cutting they were without supplies and subsisted for some time on clams and thistle roots and whatever game and fish they could secure, and altogether had a wretched existence. This perhaps may arise from the fact that after the fishing season is over, several thousands of Japanese are without employment at a season of the year when there is least demand for labour, and if the fishing season happens to be short, as it was last year, it necessarily leaves many of them without employment and without means of subsistence. They work, therefore, in getting out shingle bolts, cordwood, mining timber, &c, for what they can get. © * * J © The normal condition between labour and capital is deranged and will continue to be, if this large immigration of unskilled labour should continue. CHAP. IV. OTHER OCCUPATIONS. 1. The Mining Industry.—At the Union mines 102 Japanese were employed, as miners, helpers, runners, drivers, timbering men, blacksmiths and labourers, above and below ground. Seventy-seven are employed below ground and 25 above ground. Only three Japanese are employed at the Extension Mine. They are not employed at the Fernie Mines, nor at the New Vancouver Coal Company's -Mines at Nanaimo. As they are employed to only a limited extent in one coal mine, and\under the same general management they are not employed in others, it is impossible to say that they are necessary for this industry, but if they are the supply is abundant. The Japanese have not been employed in these mines either in the Kootenay district or elsewhere on the mainland. From 40 to 60 were employed at Texada Island. They worked in the mine and above ground. They were discharged. The cause of dismissal alleged was an increased cost of production. The output was too small. It did not pay. The only mine in which they are now employed so far as we could learn was a mine at Mount Sicker, 45 miles from Victoria, where from 30 to 35 are employed in sorting ore. The manager of this mine says : I think there are sufficient numbers of © © J Japanese here now to meet the demands. I think there are enough of the Chinese and Japanese here at the present time. No serious inconvenience would arise to our business if no more were allowed to come in. It is now like a tap ; when you want water you turn it on and when you have enough you turn it off. 396 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 The number of Japanese employed in the metaliferous mines is insignificant, and it cannot be said that this industry is dependent upon their labour to any considerable extent. The Japanese have displaced Chinese labour in the Cariboo Consolidated hydraulic mine where, as the evidence shows, about 109 are employed. 2. Railways.—Japanese are employed upon the Canadian Pacific Railway in British Columbia to a limited extent. The number varies in different seasons of the year. -Seventy are employed steadily; 30 as section men and 40 on extra gang work. At certain seasons of the year as many as 300 more are employed. Nearly five thousand men are employed in this division. The general superintendent stated that the Company was not interested in employing Oriental labour if it could get white labour. He did not think, however, that a white man with a family could live on what the Company paid the Japanese. He stated that the Company did not encourage- white men with families to come in for section work. He declared that the Japanese is a better man than the Italian. It is plain that the numbers employed on the Canadian Pacific Railway in comparison with the whole number of employees on the western division is small, and it can scarcely be urged that the successful operation of the railway is dependent upon this class of labour. 3. Sealing.—Japanese are employed to a limited extent in this industry ; being good sailors, they are shipped when white men are scarce as common seamen or boat pullers. No serious inconvenience could be occasioned this industry by the restriction of further immigration of Japanese. Jf.. Domestic Service.—It may be here mentioned that while a considerable number of Japanese are employed as domestic servants and chore boys they are not employed nearly to the same extent in that capacity as the Chinese are, and their wages as a rule are much lower. The extent to which Japanese are employed in farming, land clearing^ and other minor industries is briefly referred to in Chapter IV, 'Other Occupations,' but for a proper understanding of conditions in these industries reference may be made to the chapters on the subject in Part I, where they are fully dealt with. The opinions therein expressed regarding Chinese labour apply equally to Japanes?, to the extent of their employment. EMIGRATION STOPPED. The emigration of Japanese has for the present practically ceased, only 56 having arrived at Canadian ports in the last six months of 1901. This is doubtless owing to instructions given to local authorities by the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs for Japan, instructing them to prohibit entirely the emigration of Japanese labourers destined for Canada or the United States. The Commission was favoured by a copy"of these instructions, through the Japanese Consul at Vancouver, which is as follows : Department of Foreign Affairs, Tokio, August 2, 1900. [No. 659]. To the Governors of the Prefectures : You are hereby instructed to prohibit entirely, for the time being, the emigration of Japanese labourers for the Dominion of Canada or for the United States. YTSCOUNT AOKI, Minister of Foreign Affairs. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 | 397 PART II—CONCLUSION. In endeavouring to convey an idea of the kind of emigrant the Japanese of the labouring class is, it will be convenient to point out first wherein he differs from the Chinese of the same class. He is more independent, energetic, apt, and ready and anxious to adopt, at least in appearance, the manners and mode of life of the white man. He avails himself of every opportunity to learn English, and often makes it a condition of his contract of hiring that he may do so. It is said he is not as reliable in respect of contracts as the Chinese are, and that, while adopting to a certain extent our habits of life, he more readily falls into the vices of the white man than the Chinaman does. As we said of the Chinaman, he has a different standard of morals from ours, and what has been said of the one in this regard applies to the other; and except for • breaches of the sanitary by-laws, the absence of convictions would indicate that he is law-abiding. He often works for less wages, and in some important industries driving out the Chinaman. He comes without wife or family, and on a passport which requires him to return within three years, for which he fchas to give bonds before leaving. He does not contribute to the support of schools or churches or the building up of homes. He seeks employment in all kinds of unskilled labour, and works at a wage that all admit is wholly inadequate for the support of a white man and his family ; and while the Japanese do not live in one particular quarter of the city or town, they are given to over-crowding in boarding houses, and the fact that they are adult males without family enables them to live in a manner and at a cost wholly incompatible with the home-life of a white working man who has a family. Coming as they do for a limited period, and very often only remaining a part of the year and returning again for the season when they can obtain employment, they carry away with them their earnings, are of the least possible value to the community, pay no fair proportion of the taxes of the country, and are a keener competitor in all the avenues of unskilled labour than the Chinese. Their presence in large numbers delays the settlement of the country and keeps out intending settlers ; and all that has been said in this regard with reference to the Chinese applies with equal, if not greater force, to the Japanese.. There is a clear distinction to be drawn between immigrants who, if otherwise desirable, come with their families to make Canada their home, and that class of immigrants who come for a limited period only, intending to return within a short period and take their savings with them. They contribute in small degree to that support and interdependence upon which the stability and prosperity of a community depends, and they withdraw to the extent of their savings thejvalue of the product of the natural industries, and render it more difficult for the permanent settler of all classes, except possibly the employer, to obtain a living or to carry on his trade or calling with success. The consensus of opinion of the people of British Columbia is that they do not and cannot assimilate with white people, and that while in some respects they are less undesirable than the Chinese, in that they adopt more readily our habits of life and spend more of their earnings in the country, yet in all that goes to make for the permanent settlement of the country they are quite as serious a menace as the Chinese and keener competitors against the working man, and as they have more energy, push and independence, more dangerous in this regard than the Chinese. As directly bearing upon this question we beg to refer to the following despatches from the Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Governor General of Canada:— Downing Street, July 20, 1898. Governor General, The Right Honourable The Earl of Aberdeen, P.C., G.C.M.G. I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatches of the numbers and dates noted in the margin, in which you forwarded copies of various communications received by you from the Japanese Consul for Canada respecting the anti-Japanese legislation recently passed by the legislature of British Columbia. 398 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 2. I shall be glad if you will lose no time in transmitting, in accordance with the request contained in my telegram of June 18, copies of the Acts to which M. Shimizu takes exception, together with the observations of your ministers thereon. 3. In the meantime I have to request that you will impress upon your ministers that restrictive legislation of the type of which the legislation in question appears to be, is extremely repugnant to the sentiments of the people and Government of Japan, and you should not fail to impress upon them the importance, if there is any real prospect of a large influx of Japanese labourers into Canada, of dealing with it by legislation of the Dominion Parliament on the lines of the accompanying Natal Act, which is likely to be generally adopted in Australia. J. CHAMBERLAIN. (See Appendix for copy of Natal Act.) Governor General, The Right Honourable the Earl of Minto, G.C.M.G. Downing Street, 23rd March, 1899. (fee., &c, &c. I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch No. 40, of February 27, forwarding copy of a letter from the Japanese Consul at Vancouver in which he calls attention to certain measures which have been introduced into the legislative assembly of British Columbia during its present session prohibiting the employment of Japanese and renewing with regard to these measures the objections which he urged against the legislation of the same nature passed by the legislature of that province last year. 2. Her Majesty's Government must regret to find the Government and Legislature of British Columbia adopting a course which is justly regarded as offensive by a friendly power, and they hope that your ministers will be able to arrange for the cancellation of the objectionable provisions and the substitution of a measure-which, while it will secure the desired exclusion of undesirable immigrants, will obtain that result by means of some such general test as that already suggested in my despatch No. 214, of July 20, 1898. - In any case, Her Majesty^s Government strongly deprecate the passing of exceptional legislation affecting Japanese already in the Province. J. CHAMBERLAIN. Colonial Office to the Governor General. Downing Street, April 19, 1899. The Governor General, &c, &c, &c. I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch No. 54, of March 16, forwarding copy of an approved minute of the Dominion Privy Council to which is appended an approved report of the Executive Council of British Columbia, expressing the concurrence of the Government of that province in a report drawn up by the Minister of Finance and Agriculture on the subject of the Acts passed by the provincial legislature in 1898, containing provisions prohibiting the employment of Japanese on certain works. 2. The provincial government represent that these provisions are required by the economic conditions of British Columbia and they regret their inability to introduce legislation for their repeal. 3. Her Majesty's Government fully appreciate the motives which have induced the Government and legislature of British Columbia to pass the legislation under consideration, and recognize the importance of guarding against the possibility of the white labour in the province being swamped by the wholesale immigration of persons of Asiatic origin. They desire also to acknowledge the friendly spirit in which the representations they have felt compelled to make have been received by the Government of ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 399 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 ^British Columbia, and regret that after carefully considering the minute of the Executive Council they feel "unable to withdraw the objections they have urged to the legislation in question. 4. There is no difference between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of British Columbia as regards the object aimed at by these laws, namely, to ensure that the Pacific province of the Dominion shall be occupied by a large and thoroughly British population rather than by one in which the number of aliens largely predominates, and many of the distinctive features of a settled British community are lacking. 5. The ground,of the objection entertained by Her Majesty's Government is thaTl the method employed by the British Columbia Legislature for securing this object, while admittedly only partial and ineffective, is such as to give legitimate offence to a / power with which Her Majesty is, and earnestly desires to remain on friendly terms./ It is not the practical exclusion of Japanese to which the Government of the Mikado objects but their exclusion nominatim, which specifically stamps the whole nation asj undersirable perso *s. 6. The exclusion of Japanese subjects either from the province or from employment on public or quasi public works in the province by the operation of an educational test, such as is embodied in the Natal Immigration Law is not a measure to which the government of Japan can take exception. If the particular test in that law is not regarded as sufficient, there is no reason why a more stringent and effective one of a similar character should not be adopted, so long as the disqualification is not based specifically on distinction of race or colour. 7. Any attempt to restrict immigration or to impose disqualifications on such distinctions besides being offensive to friendly powers is .contrary to the general principles of equality which have been the guiding principle of British rule throughout the empire; and, as your ministers are aware, Her Majesty's Government were unable to allow the Immigration Restriction Laws passed by some of the Australasian colonies in 1896 to come into operation for the same reasons as they are now urging against these laws in British Columbia. 8. Her Majesty's Government earnestly trust that on consideration of these explanations the Government of British Columbia will at once procure the repeal of the provisions complained of and the substitution of legislation on the lines indicated above. 9. If this is impossible, Her Majesty's Government feel compelled, however reluctant they may be to cause inconvenience to the province, to press upon your ministers the importance in the general interests of the empire of using the powers vested in them by the British North America Act, for cancelling these measures to which Her Majesty's Government object on grounds both of principle and policy. J. CHAMBERLAIN. Your Commissioners fully appreciate the action taken by the Government of Japan on August 2, 1900, whereby the Governors of the Prefectures of Japan were instructed to prohibit entirely for the time being the emigration of Japanese labourers for the Dominion of Canada. It is stated in a pamphlet purporting to be published by the Japanese Consul at Vancouver : • the principal reason for the measure thus taken was to avoid any friction that might occur by allowing them to come into British Columbia where their immigration was not desired by a certain element of that province,' and that ■ the Government of Japan wholly stopped the issuance of passports to any intending emigrants for Canada since the first of August last (1900), and still continues to do so, under a provision of the Immigration Protection Law. (Law No. 70, 1896.)' The course adopted by the Japanese Government, if we may without presumption be permitted to say so, is most opportune, eliminating all cause of friction and irritation between Canada and Japan, and so favouring a freer trade and intercourse between the countries than could otherwiseobtain. Nothing further is needed to settle this most difficult question upon a firm basis than some assurance that the action already taken by the Government of Japan will not be revoked. 400 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Your Commissioners desire to express their earnest hope that in the continuance of this friendly policy, legislation on this subject by the Canadian Government may be rendered unnecessary. Should, however, a change of policy be adopted in this regard by the Japanese Government whereby Japanese labourers may again be permitted to emigrate to Canada, the welfare of the Province of British Columbia imperatively demands that effective measures be adopted to take the place of the inhibition now imposed by the Japanese Government. Your Commissioners recommend that, in that event, an Act be passed by the Dominion Government on the lines of what is known as the Natal Act, made sufficiently stringent and effective to accomplish the desired result. R. C. CLUTE, Chairman, D. J. MANN, C. FOLEY. ~iis&i ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRA TION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Address of Mr. R. Cassidy, K. C. Report of United States Commissioner upon Japanese Immigration. Wages in Japan, 1897. The Natal Act. ADDRESS OF MR. CASSIDY BEHALF Mr. Cassidy, K.C., in addressing the Commission, said: Having to leave by boat to-day, I have to request to be heard first. I represent the Japanese in this community before this Royal Conmiisaon. The government of Japan, as it happens, is well represented in commercial matters by an able consul, Mr. Shunizu. Any remarks which I may make on the evidence will no doubt be received by the Commission in the same spirit as that in which they are offered, and in the same kindly spirit evinced by the Commission throughout this investigation. The Japanese desire to thank the Commissioners for the invariable courtesy we have received, whatever the result may be, whatever the report may be, and whatever course parliament may see fit to take after the investigation upon receiving the report of the Commission. I feel that the report cannot be otherwise than just to all of those concerned, and I am satisfied that the industrial interests of the country will receive great advantage from the evidence which has been placed before the Commission. The considerations upon which the Japanese rely, as rendering necessary the presence of this class of labour in the Province of British Columbia, have been fully and fairly put before the Commission. We all know that for some years past the presence of the Chinese here, and more recently the Japanese, has been the object of considerable agitation. While agitation is to be commended when it has for its aim the protection of the community at large, it very often happens that the circumstances on one side are very fully presented, while the considerations on the other side are paid little attention to ; that is to say, the views of those who are not in the habit of gathering together to exchange opinions are not presented as fully as those of members of organizations banded together for the purpose of the propagation of their peculiar views of labour, political or economic questions. Business men, as a roile, are not in the habit of airing their views in public; therefore, I say it cannot be considered otherwise than as fortunate, that the investigation should have taken place, and have been as wide in its scope as it has been made by this Commission—all parties having had the fullest opportunity of presenting their views and of giving the facts which they considered went to support their differ^at contentions. I also think it must be a matter of surprise to many people who have been accustomed to regard this question from one standpoint to find men who are in actual business, who are well acquainted with the country and its commercial life, who are deeply interested in the welfare and prosperity of the country, come forward and make such statements as they have done before this Commission; and, on the other hand, it is well to have had the opposing views presented, and the grounds stated upon which those who are opposed to the orientals base their objections. It seems to me necessary to take rather a wide view of the subject. The scope of the Commission is wide enough to consider the question in all its bearings. Parliament 54—26 402 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 will thus be enabled to take a comprehensive view of the whole matter and decide intelligently what steps ought to be .taken in the circumstances ; and take into consideration the effect of any legislation proposed to be applied. It is impossible therefore to get away from the international question,, and the Imperial question which stands alongside of it. It is impossible to get away from considerations dictated by the comity of nations, or to be blind to the important considerations of international policy, which govern civilized nations in dealing with each other. One of the first things Canada will have to consider is : What is the position which the British Empire takes with 'regard to matters of the sort ? We all know that Great Britain is the champion of the open door ; that the great empire of which we form a part has always made it her boast, that her territory is open to the citizens of every country ; that her territory has afforded a home and a livelihood to the people and even to the exiles of all other countries. We have also to take into consideration the questions that have more particular reference to the Japanese. As a people the Japanese have made great strides in civilization; or rather, they have always been a civilized people, but have improved their civilization; their ports have been opened to Europeans, and they have profited by the intercourse, and they have adopted the methods of European powers ; their course in the last few years has been one of extraordinary and gratifying progress ; they are accredited to all civilized powers. We all know that instead of clinging tenaciously to ancient laws they have adopted laws based on the laws of England and the civil laws of Rome. They have adopted a constitution ; their form of government is similar to our own. In international intercourse and courtesy they have been guided by high ideals, which I am free to say cannot be improved, being founded on the course adopted by our own great Empire. The course of events in the east is tending towards the civilization and the opening up of the great Empire of China; any general Chinese war' will inevitably be followed by the adoption of our industrial methods and the spread of our commerce in that country, and return commerce will be conducted in the near future on European methods. So far with regard to China. With regard to Japan, that has all taken place; Japanese merchants trade with our merchants f not content with existing facilities by foreign vessels they have established a line of their own, as fine a line of steamers as runs on the Pacific Ocean, running from Seattle to Japanese ports. It is freely stated, 'by men who know, that the great development of late of the Port of Seattle is very largely due to the trade with Japan ; and it is well known that the trade of our own province with Japan is very considerable, coming by the Canadian Pacific Railway steamers and other ships. We all know that in the recent crisis in China the presence of Japanese troops substantially saved the situation. It was stated in the London Times that the missionaries received protection and assistance from the Japanese. And how did Japan act at a period when other people stood aloof or attacked us, not by force of arms, but in insidious ways exhibited their animosity. Japan truly exhibited a wise' attitude of friendship towards us. And what was the spirit displayed by the Japanese in British Columbia at the time troops were being raised for South Africa ? They offered to raise and equip a corps from among their own people, and send them to South Africa. It was considered by the Minister of Militia wise not to accept the proposition. Now, it is an understood principle of international comity that when one nation opens its ports freely to the people of any other civilized nation, the other nation shall act on the same principle. It is a rule of practice, although it may not be an absolute obligation. No rule of international courtesy can be said to be an absolute obligation. We all know that fair and even-handed reciprocity is not always dealt out; and that the directing principles in accordance withthe doctrine of even-handed reciprocity are hot always recognized, but we should assume that while as a nation we receive courtesy and friendly intercourse and welcome from another nation, that imposes some obligation on us to refrain from legislation directed against its people. It seems to me necessary first to take a view of the condition of British Columbia. It is the best of all the provinces in Canada. It is the richest in material resources forest, field and flood, its metaliferous ledges and mountains all contribute to its prosperity. It is also a province in which the Working man has a wide field for the application and development of his skill and energy. At the present moment the wages of workmen ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 403 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 here are infinitely greater than in any other part of Canada. That arises from the condition that, besides employment to be found in all the great staple industries, there are hundreds of opportunities for individual effort, almost limitless opportunities for improvement and advancement held out to every man who comes here. Because of the wonderful resources of the province, large sums of money have been spent in each year to bring skilled workmen from England and from eastern points. These men have invariably jumped at the tempting offers they received and the opportunities presented of bettering themselves; but it has invariably been found they were not any too willing to fulfil their obligations. In the case of Mr. Dunsmuir the experiment was made at a cost of something like $15,000 of substituting white men for Chinamen in his coal mines—not under pressure of laws or of public opinion, but because he wished to try the experiment. The men were brought here, and as the evidence shows, thinking they could do better on the other side, left, and left their obligations unfulfilled. The experiment was profitless to those who spent money upon it. That, of course, is an extraordinary condition of affairs. It is a fact that in this province there are vast undeveloped resources ; that, while apparently there is money to be made here, capital is very chary of investment; it is a hard matter to get enough capital to keep the established" industries afoot, owing to the high cost of labour. It affords food for serious reflection. We all know there are highly valuable mines in the province, that if worked would average from $10 to $15 a ton ; and we all know that, owing to the high price of labour, there are only one or two paying mines working to-day; and the difficulty is accentuated owing to the scarcity of labour. In the first place it is hard to get, when got it is extremely expensive—^-$3.50, a day in the mines, and the labour is of an unsatisfactory character, owing to the extreme independence of the workmen. They have great advantages, and they are difficult to control. They are here to-day, and away to-morrow, and it is almost impossible to carry on the industry. Now, the Japanese at present are not very great in numbers according to the best estimate I can make—something about 6,000 Japanese are now in the province; but I do not put that as being very important, because it may be said, well Japanese will come in in the future ; it is possible more may come, most of whom—about 2,450—are engaged in fishing, and the remainder are workers in mills, or in other industrial enter- © © ©" ' prises, a considerable number of farm labourers and coal miners, a small but increasing number of domestic servants, also a sprinkling of merchants in the different cities, and a few handicraftsmen, including tailors. Now, it has been suggested among other things by my learned friend, Mr. Wilson, that no industry has been called into existence by -the presence of these people. Well, that may very well be. It is not every day that an entirely new industry is discovered in the world. Most of the industries in the province have been started years ago ; and the question is whether we have been able to develop those industries by cheap labour, which the Japanese offer; and there is also a more important question, whether the industries which are at present in our midst could stand were we to withdraw that class of labour. If they could not stand it would be most disastrous to the province, and to the country, to attempt its exclusion. Now, the main industries of the province are the lumbering and fishing—including the canneries, mineral mining and coal mining, the metaliferous mines being very rich—andthe culti- vation of the land. What I am now arguing I am arguing solely from the standpoint of the interest of the country. I am not at present considering the question whether it is in the interest of the white workmen of the country who say the oriental should be excluded. Upon that point I hold yery strong views; I hold the opinion that the exclusion of the oriental would be distinctly detrimental to the white workman in the province. That is a question upon which there may be more competent judges than I am. It is for political economists and the statesmen of the country to decide. It does not at all follow because one body of men say it is so that it is so. Now, with regard to the lumber industry, it is a curious fact that the white men who are employed in the lumber industry in British Columbia, take them man for man, are better paid than men in similar places to the south of us—that is to say, in the State of Washington. Now, it has been put by some people that the reason of that is that it is an economic law that the cost of living regulates the scale of wages. I submit the view that this is only so in 54—261 404 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 thickly populated districts where there is plenty of labour offering—where labour is fluid. Wherever that is the case all you have to do is to find out, to ascertain the lowest possible cost at which men can live ; they compete with each other to that point, down to the starvation point; but, however much that may apply in England and in some ports of the great nation to the south of us, we find that it does not apply in this province. We. find there is not a single industry in which any class of labour in our province is forced to a living wage. We find, in other words, that the rate of wages for ordinary unskilled workmen in this province is about $2 a day. It is quite true there are in certain industries, certain classes of work which there is no necessity for the white man to do at all, which are undertaken cheaper by the oriental than the white man ; but even with regard to the orientals they are not for a moment forced down to a living, wage. If the orientals were to work for what is to them a living wage, that might be an injury. We all know these men get from $1.00 to $1.50 a day. This province is always spoken of as a place where it is expensive to live. Ordinarily speaking, and in the proper sense, it is not expensive; but it is a place where ordinary workmen are not content with ordinary, humble fare, but live at greater expense than the same class in the east. Carpenters here get from $3.00 to $3.50 a day; they live up to their income, and live expensively. The staples of life are not, in a broad sense, more expensive here than anywhere else. I refer to that merely for the purpose of showing that while it is said that workmen are paid less in the State of Washington because they can live cheaper over there, my own view is that they* cannot live cheaper over there. With regard to the staples of life, such a place as Seattle is more expensive; while some things may be had cheaper others are a great deal dearer. To return to that, Mr. McNair, who was a witness of the greatest importance, because his firm has mills on both sides of the line, he is in a position to speak about the matter. He says they do not pay as much to their labour in the United States, where they employ only white labour, as they do here ; and he also said, if you will remember—and it was corroborated by every witness who spoke in the lumber trade—that it is the case here, that they are enabled to employ a certain proportion of cheap labour, at a lower rate per month, manual labour in the mill—that thereby they are enabled, having the rough, unskilled labour at a cheap rate, to pay the white men who occupy the positions requiring superior skill in the mills, better wages. The white men exceed the orientals in numbers, and those white men are better paid than they would be if only white labour were employed in the mill. The whole question is an economic and commercial one. There are large mills to the south of us who make of this province a slaughter market for their over-production. .JgIt is unfortunate our own lumbermen are not protected even in their own market. The result of that is, both with regard to the export and home trade, that they are driven into unequal and, therefore, unfair competition with the mill owners to the south of us. The consequence of that is, in order to live, our men over here, our manufacturers, are of necessity compelled to keep their expenses down to the same figures as those of the manufactures to the south of us. They point out that manufacturers of lumber in the United States have the advantage of us in several respects. They have a great home market, from 70,000,000 to 80,000,000 people, with no customs wall. Then they have the advantage of cheaper, machinery. We know that in practice as to machinery here, a great part of it is brought from the United States, and that almost everything that enters into the cost of production is cheaper over there, except logs. That being the state of affairs, it is necessary that we should obtain, in some respect, advantage—and that one respect is the matter of labour, at least they would like to have it so ; but in point of fact they do not get that; so really it is a wonder they can continue to live at all; and we are not surprised to hear, one after the other, come up here and say they are not making money at all, that it was a hard matter even to keep the mills open until within the last year or so, when things have been a little better. Now, that is not the worst of it. They might manage to get along without the orientals if they had a class of white labour in such numbers that directly an opening offered it would fall in at a reasonable wa»e. Now, there has never been an offering in British Columbia of a body of white labour to fill the places as they become vacant, with the labour market in a fluid condition ; so that, for instance, if a mill wanted 100 men they could get them. I am referring to the ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 405 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 sort of labour which is required from day to day, the lower class of labour which some exigency or rush of business may require in a larger number. Now, there is no fluid white labour offering in British Columbia to fill such an exigency as that. Then Mr. Alexander gave evidence, which you will remember. He put it strongly and clearly; he said it was absolutely necessary that this cheap labour should be employed in the mills here, so that the larger proportion of white labour should be kept busy. Then Mr. Hackett tells you- that for two years he tried to run with white labour only, but he could not keep it up, and he had to get cheap labour of some sort. Then Mr. Heaps said—I still refer to the Report of the evidence in the newspaper—some of the machines at which a man could earn from three or four dollars a day were idle because of inability to procure sufficient white labour of the lowest kind. Now, every one of those manufacturers has pointed out to you that while the proportion of Japanese employed is relatively small compared to the white that the proportion of wages paid to them was still smaller in proportion to their numbers. Now, it seems to me to be clear then, if we are to accept the statement of the saw mill and shingle mill men, that under existing conditions they are unable to get along without that class of labour; and, taking into consideration that these men are not afforded protection even in their own market, by the government, that this is made a slaughter market for American over-production, I urge that it would be an exceedingly cruel thing, and one which ought not to be con- O © J ©' © templated for a moment, to debar them from the employment of this cheap labour. Of course it is a question whether it would be any advantage to our own white workmen to make the alteration, when the conditions are such, when the competition in the market is such that these mill men cannot afford to pay more wages. If that is true, if they are obliged to employ white men, who cannot be got for less than two dollars a day, and very few at that—the average white man cannot be got for less than $2.50 a day, because of his peculiar position of independence here, owing to the great opportunities offered him because of prospecting and mining and other things,—I say if these mill men were compelled to hire white men for the lower class of unskilled labour at these wages, they would have to go out of existence. Isn't it better to have the mills here under such circumstances that they can exist and employ a large number of white men ? Isn't the advantage largely in favour of leaving the thing as it is—and that is it not © © J © © absolutely impossible, from an economic standpoint to alter it; and is it not folly to suggest there is anything injurious to our own people in the condition as it exists ? Now, in regard to the cannery business, I am not interested in that, except in so far as it relates to the fishing. The Japanese are fishermen. The cannery men say thev cannot, get along without the Chinese inside the canneries. The suggestion is that J © © ©© there are too many fishermen, and that the keen competition among them renders it impossible for them to make a living. It is to be said that the parliament of Canada, and you gentlemen as its advisers, are going to report—and make a law in this country having a wide international effect, because it will have the merely incidental effect of affecting or benefitting a few fishermen on the Fraser River, resulting in antagonizing a friendly people and inviting retaliation by restrictions in our commerce with the east. White fishermen complain there are too many fishermen on the river. Of course that is a matter which can be dealt with in the Fishery Regulations, supposing you come to the conclusion that it is true, that the interests of the province require that there should be fewer fishermen on the River—but that question is a debateable question—the cannerymen say that is not so—they prefer to have a good many on the river, because they can get fish at a cheaper rate. What the fishermen say is that there are too many fishermen on the river. That is a matter to be dealt with in another way. It is a very grave thing to think that the price of fish to the canners has kept up to a figure which renders it almost impossible for the canners to make money and that some of them have failed. It is said the reason of that is there are too many canneries and that they compete with each other for the fish. I am not prepared to say that that is not to the advantage of the country as a whole, their employing a great many fishermen and a great many people inside, and paying a good price for fish—much better than if there were fewer canneries. Then, in connection with that, it has been made a complaint against the Japanese that they build and sell boats. It is quite true that they build and equip 406 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902: boats. It has been complained that they go into the woods and whip-saw logs and build and equip boats much cheaper than white boat builders. Now, that is an extraordinary complaint. These boats are sold to fishermen—they used to pay $150 for a boat which they can get now for $60 ; it is quite true that some boat builders may be injured, but look at the advantage to the fishermen who get a cheap boat I point out that one boat builder from Vancouver, who has introduced up-to.date machinery, who.%aiids boats by modern methods—stated that he was not afraid of Japanese competition, that he could build boats as good and as cheap as the Japanese ; so the only man who gets hurt is the white man who proposes to go on without any assistance at all from machinery and to build a boat. In the good old days, when they had not machinery or apparatus for doing that, in the good old days before the Japanese built boats, a man could go and buy lumber and build a boat costing $150. The answer to that is, that it is not a fair price, and everybody is benefitted by the price to. day; a man can go and get a boat from the Japanese or from the modern manufacturer at a reasonable price. To say that the country is hurt by it, or that anybody is hurt by it, is simply absurd. Now, then there are the coal mines. We went up to Nanaimo and from there we went to Union. In Nanaimo we found that no orientals of any kind were employed, below ground there. In Union, on the contrary, we found some pits with both Chinese and Japanese. Now, it was obsei vable that if any pit were to start now on the basis of all white labour as at Nanaimo, nobody would make money on it. For some years the New Vancouver Coal Company operating in that way paid practically no dividends ; but last year it was screwed up to pay a dividend of three per cent; an interest that is nothing at all liege, so it may be taken for granted, that that industry, if conscientiously run, is being run on a plane that will not pay, and certainly will not conduce to capital coming in to deyelop other coal fields. Chairman Clute.—Where did you get that from ? There is no evidence of that. Mr. Cassidy.—With regard to the orientals being a source of danger in coal mining, as that has reference rather to the Chinese I will pass that over. I do not know it was said that Japanese were a danger to the men underground ; I know that was said in regard to the Chinese. Of course it may be argued there is danger underground but if it should be attempted to apply that to the Japanese it does appear to me to be rather disingenuous. We know, we have been told, that the white men employ them underground themselves on contract work, and white men who can employ them never complain. It was shown in fact that in one mine, where they ran the whole mine exclusively with Chinese for some years, at Extension, they had no accidents. The oriental people are not more dangerous than white men ; their instincts are such that they will carry on work with regularity and attention to safety much better than white men. The white man may have a wider range of thought, but it is possible he does not do his work with the same regularity and mechanical accuracy as of a machine as it is done by oriental" people. That was their distinguishing characteristic, that if you wanted the work to be done with regularity and attention you could get the oriental to do it. Mr. Dunsmuir did his best to get white labour. It is within your knowledge that this question of whether he was to be allowed to employ oriental labour in his coal mines was determined by the Local Legislature in its wisdom saying orientals - should not be employed underground. This was the subject of an appeal which was determined in Mr. Dunsmuir's favour by the British Privy Council. Having the principle determined in his favour, Mr. Dunsmuir turned around and said, I have shown you I am master.of the situation, but notwithstanding that, I will voluntarily try the experiment, I will spend a great deal of money in doing it— for everybody knows that the real truth is when I turn the orientals out, instead of there being hundreds of white people about ready to work, there is nothing of the sort; I have to go. abroad. He did go abroad, and imported a number of white miners, with the same result as has followed everything of the kind in British Columbia. The. conditions were such that the men, having been brought out here in place of fulfilling their moral obligations to their employers and allowances made to them, went off, finding other work to do and left him in the lurch. There are so many good things in British Columbia that white labour is scarce here, extremely hard to get, and harder- ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 407 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 still to be depended upon. At all events, that was the result of it. Now, the next question is the question of the land. We have in this province as rich land as is to be found anywhere in the world, that is timbered land. We have a moderate, equable climate. The soil and all conditions are favourable to the growth of all the ordinary foods. Notwithstanding that, we import more than we produce, and the reason of that is, that the cost of clearing the land is so great that it is cheaper to buy your vegetables; everything you can get out of the ground in this country, that can grow in this country, it is cheaper to buy it in the United States and pay duty oneit. Now, that state of affairs is very unfortunate. Unless some economical mechanical method of clearing the land is invented this condition threatens to continue. Everything has to be viewed from an economic standpoint. It is necessary to the success of the settlers, and of the capitalists who have invested money here, that the land should be cleared by cheap labour; and we know the Japanese offer their labour in that field not excessively cheap, but for $1 to $1.50 a day. The settlers cannot afford even to pay that. They go upon the land, which is heavily timbered; they pick out a little bit and endeavour to clear it, and go on year after year until they are nearly heart-broken- That is the reason wby agriculture does not show as much progress as other matters here. It is necessary- we should have the Japanese to clear the land. Mr. Robins, of Nanaimo, although holding strong views against the orientals, said he could not see how the land could be cleared without them. He is in a peculiar position; he has persuaded himself into the pleasant fiction or hallucination that he is master of the situation, and that the representations of the unions have no influence on him or are of little or no avail; that he keeps on the even tenor of his way without reference to them. Mr. Robins is one of the most diplomatic of men, and he is living on terms of the greatest friendship with the Labour Unions; they manage to get along nicely together. The labour union, substantially speaking, dictates to Mr. Robins what he has to do ; but he is very politic, and seeks as it were by passive means, by putting forward his own side of the case, to get along with the union; but one thing he knows is that, considering the views and power of the union to which all his men belong, if he were to propose to employ cheap labour everything would be undone at once. Mr. Dunsmuir, on the other hand, is not troubled in that way ; he goes on with his own white miners and deals with them directly as individuals ; there is no union ; the coal is got out by contract, by the white miners, who get the contracts; every one exercises hi s own opinion in the b isiness ; the white miner gets a cmtract to take out coal, he in practice usually employs an oriental to help him, and the two get along amicably and peaceably. Whether that is a good thing or bad, that is for the men to say. Chairman Clute—How can you say the union dictates to Mr. Robins % Mr. Cassidy—They have a strong union there at Nanaimo ; and the attitude of Mr. -Robins shows he is on such terms with the union that a certain consideration has to be given to their views ; they are to have opportunity for discussion ; and there will be no lockout until so many days elapse. I think it is practically manifest such a condition of affairs does exist. Chairman Clute—The agreement is they will not strike without consultation with each other. Mr. Cassidy—We all know perfectly well who it was contrived that arrangement; it was not Mr. Robins' Company at all ; but they have got into that position there. Now, my learned friend spoke of the economical and industrial questions, and the national and political considerations. I have gone into the economic and commercial aspect of the investigation I think enough. Now, with regard to the national and political, I suppose he means the social. Political only comes in in considering whether the Japanese should be allowed to become citizens of our country. That is with regard to the Dominion Elections ; they are controlled by the Dominion; but not so with regard to the province. It is said they are a non-assimilable people. Now, it seems to me an entirely new doctrine that any country should prohibit from entering on its shores, and should prohibit from enjoying in the fullest degree the benefits of citizenship all peoples with whom one would not like to intermarry. Now, if that were adopted generally by nations it would result in a Chinese wall all round ; it would be a retrograde movement, REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 •and would delay civilization. The Japanese are an oriental people, because they live in the orient. It may possibly be there is some other line of division, in sentiment, be- "tween the peoples; but I apprehend to the Japanese women for instance, the white man can be no more attractive than the Japanese can be to the Canadian. Many people think the Japanese women are among the most charming of their sex. Some travellers in the east tell us that absolutely delightful is the courtesy and politeness of the Japanese women. If they came here and introduced many of their charming ideas among us, it cannot be said the Englishman would be against them. It would be disagreeable to find it necessary to exclude a people, to legislate in any way, with regard to a people who throw their doors open to us and welcome us as they do; it is contrary to the spirit with which one nation should regard another that a suggestion of the kind should be "used as a pretext for turning away the citizens of a foreign country from our shores. That is not the true reason ; but that they are injured in the wage question, and they desire to use every argument they can against the stranger. When you use the word | assimilation ' what do you mean ? I say it just means reasonable assimilation, adoption of our laws, and our ideas, turning to our laws and institutions, friendly sympathy with us, ready to advance with us along the line of civilization and development. Are not the Japanese doing all that? They come here to Canada, they acquire our language, they aim to become citizens of our country. It has been suggested they become citizens only in order to get fishing licenses. I say that is not the case. It has been said that but few of them have a wish to live here; but it seems to me there is no objection to them on that ground. It has also been suggested, principally against the Chinese—I propose to say it does not apply to the Japanese—that they send their earnings out of the country. It is perfectly true there is a considerable margin between the wages he gets and what he lives on. The Chinaman is more frugal than the representative of any other nation. I do not consider it as a disadvantage to the country that he is frugal and economical; the result of the labour remains in the country. Has he got to spend all he earns in drinking whiskey, or indulging in any form of luxury 1 I do not put the Japanese on the same plane. He is not a frugal man ; when he gets good pay he is like white men, he lives like white men. Rice is more expensive than potatoes. He eats meat and vegetables. I am sorry to say that of the offences charged against them drunkenness is the common one. Although that may not be a compliment to him, the result is that he spends his money in the country. It has never been suggested—I have asked the question over and over again— with regard to the fishermen, that there is any difference in cost between the equipment of the Japanese and that of the white fishermen. The only exception is that the white men eat potatoes and the Japanese eat rice, all other supplies they use equally. It is a difference in point of taste, and that is all there is in it. Now, it is said that the presence of the Japanese in this province is keeping out of the province a desirable class of white settlers who would otherwise come in. Now, what is the desirable class we desire to come in ? What we desire is cheap labour. This province can afford to pay high wages to all classes of skilled labour, and it does pay it. But, besides that, there is a large class upon the presence of which is dependent the development of our resources; and we do know the resources will never be developed until we have more labour ; it is necessary there should be a considerable body of cheap labour, or rather of the lower class of labour; and that is the class it is desirable we should have come into the country. If it were so that we could get white men to come here and work for $1.00 or $1.25 a day we would welcome them with open arms, but you cannot; the moment you bring into this province a man from Quebec, Montreal or Toronto, he immediately becomes a $2 or $3 a day man. That is the lesson taught by the experience of those who have imported labour. In other words, he finds that, because of his equipment and intelligence, and being able to take advantage of the conditions out here, he can get more than at home. The fact of the matter is, if we could get into the province a large body of cheap labour, the effect would be to bring under cultivation a large part of the land, new industries would be started, and in the end we would be able to pay better wages than at present, and employ a great many more white men. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 409 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Now, it is said that itisimportant to consider whether we are not laying up for ourselves a race question. In the United States there is the race question with the negro in that- country. The reason of that is the negro settles down on the land ; they are a prolific people, and their numbers are growing more rapidly than those of the white people alongside of them. But the very thing that is charged against the oriental is the very thing that may be alluded to as preventing any such thing in this country. I grant you if they came here and settled on the land with their families, and increased, it would be a serious matter for the white man ; but they come here and give us the advantage of their labour at a reasonable rate ; the results of their labours are left with us ; but that they go back to their country again seems to me to be a great advantage instead of a «/ o J o © © disadvantage. Now, it is quite true that, from the standpoint of the statesman and the nation builder, it is very important we should have a large class of kindred people who will build up the country. I do not see that progress in that direction is retarded in any degree by the presence of the orientals. My view is that the population of the province is so small that we have a need for cheap labour, thus enabling industries to be developed ; the effect of that will be to afford a larger field for white men and their families, of such a class as will be most desirable. That we wish. Down in Quebec, where you pay $1 and SI.25 a day for work on the railway, where you find large gangs of white labourers earning a verv small wage, do you find among them this better class who will «s O 3 J O best build up this province 1 I think not. In other words, where you find cheap white labour fluid in large masses, as in railway gangs, we generally find the men to be low class Europeans and not likely to settle down and build up the country. In other words, the settlement of this country must always be by prosperous people who get their $3 and $4 a day, and can keep wives and families. I mean to say the existence of cheap labour here, by opening up the resources of the country, very largely opens up situations for people of the sort we want to get here. The charge which appeared most attractive to the opponents of the Japanese, next to that of their competition, lowering the rate of wages, was that it is inadvisable to permit any considerable part of our working population to consist of an alien race, who cannot assimilate with our people, partake of our political and national life, or constitute a class of settlers which we would desire to become the parents of future generations of our people. If there was anything in the nature of a general substitution of Japanese for our own people I think there would be a great deal in this argument, but it is really an academic question. It is entirely contrary to international usage for civilised nations to exclude foreigners, who come to their shores in order to contribute their labour, or skill, or enterprise to the country of their adoption,—I may perhaps except the United States and some of the British colonies with reference to Chinese immigration. While there can be little doubt that a country which receives foreigners is benefitted thereby, it is questionable whether it would, in all instances, be an advantage to that country for the strangers to assimilate, either by intermarriage or by taking a share in the control of its affairs, by voting or otherwise. My own opinion is that an assimilation, in the sense intended by the objectors, would be a disadvantage, and that the fact that the strangers for the most part elect to go home after a certain period, is an advantage to both nations. Now, who are the men responsible for the oriental agitation? An anti-oriental agitation has been continuously kept up in this province for the last 15 or 20 years, originally directed against the Chinese; but the Japanese, who have come to our shores in considerable numbers during recent years have been included as objects of attack, and it may be said, so far as the agitators are concerned, without any discrimination between the two peoples. It has become well understood by politicians and representative men generally, in this province, that an attitude of hostility to oriental immigration of all kinds was essential to popularity. During all this period there was a large body of mast influential business men in the province who gave practical recognition to the advantages conferred upon industrial and commercial interests by the presence in the country of an element which supplied forms of labour necessary to the development of some of our most important resources. This labour was not only cheaper, but in its 410 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 Class, -better and more reliable than that offered by our own people. As will be readily understood the anj&HMiental point of view obtained copious and often violent expression on all hands : in the newspapers, on the hustings, and through the action of the legislature. It is more than doubtful whether these expressions did not outrun sincerity, as there is no cheaper method in this province of acquiring political capital than by abusing a non-voting class who are obnoxious to the labouring classes of our own people, who have the control of political power. The business men of the Province who directly or indirectly gain advantage from, or use, oriental labour, and also the large class of men who recognize its value to us as a community, have always kept silent, and the facts and arguments which would support their point of view have not been presented to the public, and these facts and arguments have been elicited by this Commission. The opportunity of discriminating the position of the Japanese from that of the Chinese in this discussion has been an unmixed advantage to the former. I do not mean that the distinction has not always been present and appreciated by the class to which such distinctions appeal. The labour unions broadly speaking embrace the whole body of artizans and skilled workmen, and they put forward that their position is injured and going to be destroyed by this cheap labour. That seems to me to be one of the most extraordinary views of the whole affair. The evidence is before you with regard to the skilled organizations. I have much sympathy with the organizations and their purpose. The artizan organization of Victoria includes all the trades. No oriental is permitted to be a member. In dealing with employers of labour they make it a • sine qua non' that no oriental should be employed. The result is they have the field entirely to themselves : and we also find that they are better paid than any other artizans in the Dominion of Canada. The reason of that is not far to seek. A man who undertakes labour at the price of the oriental is ostracised^ even although the employer is unable to pay more; they fix the wages at as high a point as the thing will stand; but to suggest that that is a disadvantageous situation to the artizans is absurd. The employment of the oriental in British Columbia is a distinct advantage to these men We all know that this is largely a sentimental matter. We all know they have their leading lights, who formulate their opinions ; they have come to the conclusion that this province is not in a desirable condition, and that that is owing to the presence of the oriental. I say the province is in good condition. There s no single place labour is more independent than here. The great difficulty in Rossland arises from this,—-the men, led by these union organizers^ get extravagant ideas of their rights, and advance and insist on those; if their demands are not at once acceded to, they are so independent that just at the critical moment they turn round and strike, and throw the whole thing out of gear. The point I make is that they could not do that if the conditions were not such that they know they are quite safe. The labour conditions are such in the province that there is lots of room for them, there is no scarcity of employment. While the view of the white workman is perfectly sincere, it is entirely mistaken. The relatively cheap and efficient Japanese labour available improves the position of the white workman. The employment of the Japanese does not decrease but increases the field for the employment of white workmen. The ability to obtain cheap labour for the lower but necessary classes of work greatly assists the development of our resources and renders possible enterprises which could not otherwise be undertaken, and such industries employ not only Japanese and Chinese at a low rate of wages but also employ large numbers of whites at a higher rate of wages, and the whites otherwise would not get that employment. The employment of Japanese does not decrease but increases the rate of ges obtainable by the white workmen.* Owing to the competition to which our industries are subjected, both at home and abroad, but chiefly to that of the United States manufacturers and producers in the foreign markets to which we send out staple prcjducts, the cost of production in our industries is not a matter subject to our own dictation or control, and only a certain- fixed proportion of that cost can be devoted to wages. It is obvious that the smaller the sum paid to the lower or oriental classes of employees the greater is the sum which any given industry can afford to pay to its higher, or white employees, and the nature of the pressure on the part of the employee under modern conditions is such that, broadly speaking, the sum paid in wages is either the ■ife ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 411 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 full amount or very close to the limit which the particular industry can afford. So that if it were not for the presence of the orientals in this province our own people would occupy all* the positions in a smaller and less developed number of industrial enterprises,, and compete with each other for the better places in them, while, as it is now, they lose a number of the lower class of places, and retain and greatly increase the number of the better class of positions open to them, and the country as a whole derives great advantage from the increased area of development. It is clearly indicated, as a matter of fact„ that the British Columbia whiie workman is not only the best paid workman in Canada, but he is better paid than his brother immediately to the south of us in the United States. The principal objectors to oriental immigration are the organized trades and artizan unions in this province, and while they are quite sincere in their very strong resentment against the oriental, I am satisfied that, even if it is not correct, which I think it is, that the presence of the oriental is advantageous to the white common labourer, there is no doubt that the presence here of the oriental is a distinct advantage to the men who work at skilled trades, and it must be remembered that the members of labour organizations belong exclusively to skilled trades of one kind or another, for it has always been found, in practice, impossible to organize common labour, and the voice of the common, labourer is not heard nor are his views given effect to, to the same extent as is the-case with regard to the workman in skilled trades. The trades unions have two principal objects : To keep up the rate of wages; to keep, each after its kind, its own field of labour from encroachment by outsiders. With regard to the rate of wages, as I have already pointed out, the evidence indicated that the skilled workman received more because of the cheapness of the oriental common labourer. With regard to the exclusive occupation of the field openio skilled workmen* one of the principal difficulties with which members of that class have to contend in new countries, is the pressure from below of men of their own race who have come to the country without a trade, but having a certain amount of skill in some particular direction, offer themselves.as artizans at a lower than the current rate of wages, and, as public opinion and the numerical weight of the white labouring men thus desiring to encroach upon the richer field prevents any attempt on the part of the unions to suppress those intruders of their own race, it is obvious that the substitution of a large body of white common labourers for the orientals now employed would be less advantageous to the members of the trades unions than the conditions which now exist, for the unions have been up to the present quite strong enough to protect their own field from incursions by the orientals, and they are thus enabled, and it is their rule, to insist both upon a minimum rate of wages and that orientals shall not receive employment along with themselves at the work of their different trades; so that the trades unions are really masters of the situation to a much greater extent in British Columbia thanin any other part of Canada. The point was made with some success against the Chinese that their personal habits, more especially in regard to over-crowding and unsanitary practices, constituted a menace to the health of the community, but the evidence did not sustain this charge as against I the Japanese. There were a few instances of over-crowding in boarding houses following the arrival at the same time of large numbers of Japanese from transpacific steamships on certain occasions, but the difficulty was in each case of a most temporary nature and there is not, in any city in British Columbia, any crowding of Japanese into an exclusive quarter of their own as is the case with the Chinese. The well known fact that the Japanese are a particularly cleanly people in their personj|||» habits, and perhaps more fond of bathing and washing than are our own people was brought out. It is asserted it is a very wrongful thing for a man to come from abroad and enter into the tailoring business and to turn out clothes so good in style and fit that they enter into competition with older establishments in the country. There are very few Japanese tailoring establishments in the country—two or three in Victoria, and the same number in* Vancouver; but the principle of the thing is—it is wholly without relation or precedent—that the country should say that people who are artists, who come 412 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 to our shores and enter into competition with our native born artists, buying their cloth from our wholesale houses, should be prohibited. It is not a wage question. They are entering into competition in something they can manufacture. We have all heard there is not such a great difference in the cost. Perhaps they are satisfied with a little less profit on their product. The real reason why they can do that is, they are not controlled by the labour unions. All clothes are enormously expensive in Victoria; you have to pay from $35 to $38 for an ordinary suit of clothes; and a great many people, it is said, who ought to know better go to Japanese tailors. The next thing that is subject of complaint is that the Japanese go into ladies' tailoring. Now, that is purely artistic. The humble and middle class of people do not indulge in ladies' tailoring; it is your swell who wants to cut a little figure who goes in for that. Do you know why some lady is doing that ? Is she doing it in order to save a dollar, or anything of the kind 1 Not at all. She goes to the Japanese because he is an artist. There is a great deal of the spirit of bigotry about. It is put forward by a great lot of people that the Japanese are coming in here and running away with the trade. I do not think there is a word of © O -J truth in it. We all know that in England, when the Huguenots were turned out of France, and they sought refuge in Britain, it was felt to be a great advantage. I do not think myself there is anything serious in the complaint about the tailoring. Thanking you very much for the careful attention you have given to the evidence throughout, and to the views presented on behalf of the Japanese, I can only say in conclusion it seems to me utterly impossible, that it would be impossible for any commission to say that the presence of the Japanese is detrimental to the country, or that they are a menace \ to us in any way. The Japanese are a people who live like ourselves ; they do not hurt the country. And now, one thing before closing: and that is, that it is clear the J'apanese government is perfectly alive to every consideration that may be urged in this matter ; and, being one of the great nations now, their country being represented at the courts of the leading nations of the world, they are ready to entertain any views that may be suggested with regard to the traffic between their country and ours, either with regard O© © J © to immigration or anything else. It is impossible to suppose that on any such pretexts as are put forward, the parliament of Canada would pass an act against the Japanese— ■in other words, to affirm that that would be the proper way of dealing with any difficulties there may be. It is impossible to suppose that that is the proper way of dealing with it. I leave the matter in your hands, quite sensible that you will take everything into consideration in reporting your views to the government. REPORT OF THE UNITED STATES COMMISSIONER APPOINTED TO INQUIRE INTO JAPANESE IMMIGRATION. (Exhibits are published only in XJ. S. Report.) San Francisco, Cal., April 24, 1899. The Commissioner General of Immigration, Washington, D. C. I have the honour to report that in pursuance with instructions by letter No. 17288, hereto attached, directing me to proceed to Japan via California for the purpose of investigating the subject of Japanese immigration into the United States, that I sailed on the steamer Coptic on November 29, 1898, and landed in Yokohama on December 18. I was employed in Japan in pursuance of the duties assigned me for ninety-seven days. During that time I visited the provinces of Sagami, Mushi, Owari, Yamashiro, Setsu, Kii, Bizen, Aki, and Suwo. Among the cities visited and where .1 pursued my investigations were Yokohama, Tokyo, Nagyoa, Kyoto, Osaki, Wakayama, Kobe, Okayama, Hiroshima, and Yamaguchi. I did not visit Nagasaki for the reason that very few emigrants embark at that port. After completing my inquiries, ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 413 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 I sailed from Yokohama on March 25, 1899, on the steamer Rio de Janeiro, and landed at this port on April 13. The provinces visited, with the addition of the province of Kyushu, covers the section of Japan in which the greatest activity in regard to emigration prevails. However, emigrants oonie from every province in the Empire. In connection with this report, I submit 34 exhibits as a part thereof, which, with the facts falling under my personal observation and imparted to me by reliable persons, form the basis of fact and argument herein and conclusions deducted therefrom. The government of Japan, until comparatively recent times, was feudal and paternal in its character, and it naturally followed that after the Japanese renaissance, which period may be fixed as beginning with the reign of the present Emperor, the new institutions of the country took~on many features of the old, and among these relics of mediaeval times is the paternal principle that the subject cannot sever his allegiance from his sovereign. It naturally followed after the opening of Japan to foreign commerce, which begat an idea among its people for foreign travel, that the government provided regulations for the care and control of emigration abroad, which are characterized by many features of the feudal idea of allegiance or paternal duty on the part of the government in its relation to the subject, and which are now being used by designing men for the promotion of money-making enterprises. This is due to the ignorance of the mass of coolie farmers and the complicated system of granting passports. Under the Japanese law every subject is registered in his native prefecture, which he may not leave without permission of the authorities and from which he, or she, must obtain their passports, when they desire to emigrate. (See the exhibit citing the regulations of several provinces in detail.) Inasmuch as the government claims the perpetual allegiance of its subject, it grants a passport, limited to three years, and I was informed that a large part of the emigrants who thus go abroad re€urnt<rtheir native land sooner or later, and consequently few Japanese, and indeed I may say none, come to the United States with a view to remaining or making homes, the theory of their emigration system being for the promotion of emigration as an educational process and money-making investment fora temporary period, the profits of which accrue jointly to the promoter and to the emigrant, the Japanese empire being the recipient of what may be described as the unearned increment through its people that thus go abroad, through their contact with more enlightened people, and by reason of the accumulated capital, which they return to their native land. It is through the tenacious allegiance which the subjects of Japan yield to their sovereign that the promotion of emigration becomes a reasonably safe business. It is a feature of the construction of the Japanese law regulating emigration (See Regulations, Exhibit No. 1) that in providing the same the government has acted upon the theory that the character of the Japanese abroad will be taken as an index of the character of the nation at home. Hence these regulations provide for the careful inquiry into the character of those going abroad and also requires that provision shall be made for the return of the emigrant, in the event that he becomes sick, or a public charge in a foreign country, before passports are granted. These features of the Japanese law, regulating emigration and thegranting of passports, are very well in themselves provided they were honestly enforced, and provided the Japanese people stood on an equal footing with the people of the United States in a moral, economical and educational sense, especially as to the value of their labour, making the act of emigration, in the nature of things, purely voluntary, they would be highly commendable. But there is an abundance of evidence going to show that the average Japanese village official and policeman, who practically pass on the qualifications of emigrants, is but little superior, if any, in point of morals to the average coolie farmer. .Consequently, the performance of their duties is at most perfunctory, while the possibility of gain through the emigration companies, of which I shall hereafter treat, renders their investigations and reports of little value. Upon this point, I was informed by various persons, it is desirable for the emigrant to go under the auspices of the emigration companies, because these companies smooth the way with the officials and, as some say, are influential. The emigration companies seem to be attached to the system, to which I have above alluded, by the 4aws making 414 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 provision for their organization. They are designated in Japanese * Imin Toriatsukinin' and are authorized to make provision for the assisting of the emigrants abroad, provide security for the emigrants' care abroad required by the law and return in case of sickness or indigence, and in the performances' of these services they engage in furnishing contract labour to such countries as permit it and otherwise contract with the emigrant for the services to be performed by them of a personal character. For such services they receive from the emigrant certain fees, ranging from 10 to 20 yen per capita. • These companies were first organized as ordinary partnerships, but later were brought under the control of the government, and are now operating under the law described, enacted in the twenty-ninth year of Meiji, 1896. (See Exhibit No. 1). In general, these companies, of which there are 12 in all (one new one having been organized -while I was in Japan, to wit, the Okayama Emigration Company), are required by the government to deposit certain moneys as a guaranty that the business tranacted shall be strictly in accordance with the provisions of the Imperial Ordinance, the agents located abroad being subject to the approval of the government. They have an aggregate capital stock of 558,999 yen, distributed as follows : Company. Kobe Toko Co \ JKobe Nippon Kissa Emigration Co Tokyo.... Kaigwai Toko Co Hiroshima Shin Morioka Co Tokyo ... Nippon Emigration Co jKofce .... Kyushu Emigration Co Kumamota Tokyo Emigration Co. . Kosei Emigration Co Kumamota Emigration Co Imperial Colonial Okayama (new company ; capital stock unknown). I Yokohama Tokyo Wakayama. Kumamota. Okayama... Capital Stock. Yen. 30,300 100,000 60,000 8,000 50,000 50,000 20,000 100,000 50,000 40,000 30,000 Six of these companies have agents in the United States and Canada as follows :- Company, Residence. Kobe Toko Co Takijiro Nippon Emigration Co iTanichi Takaya.. . Kaigwai Toko Co IKisuke Hamano.... ^Shin Morioka Taniche Takaya.... Kosei Emigration Co Tekiehe Nishihata.. Tobe Toko Co i Kinsuke Takahashi. Kaigwai Toko Co % Kosei Emigration Co y Kyusku Emigration Co iKwanichi Kayashi Nippon Emigration Co | Massataro Mito.... Horishi ma Emigration Co IMinami Jinnosuke. Kosei .Emigration Co IY. Nishibata I San Jose, Cal. San Francisco, Cal. Vancouver, Avenue.) British Columbia (Columbia Vancouver, B.C. At or in the neighbourhood of Victoria, B.C. San Francisco, Cal., 529| Geary street. » ii 2604 Brannan street. These companies have offices at all important emigration centers, but at the present time Hiroshima seems to be the chief center of operations. I have found nine branch ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 offices in that city. (See Exhibit No. 1.) The character of the organization maintained by these emigration companies for business and political purposes may be inferred from the fact that in Tokyo they have an association of emigration companies located at Yamashiro cho (street or line) called Kyobashi, which is in the nature of an emigration boajd-nfLtrade^ The offices of these companies are well equipped for business purposes and have the appearance of being well supplied with employees and clerks. The managers and stockholders are among the leading business men and politicians of Japan, and are a formidable power when co-operating together. Among the capitalists and politicians thus interested is Mr. Suguwara, who is a member of the lower House of Parliament and editor of the Jimim, the leading vernacular newspaper of Japan, published at Tokyo. Mr. Suguwara spent several years in Idaho, where he had extensive connection with railway contractors, and presumably laid the foundation of his fortune. I met others connected with these companies, whose appearance showed them to be men of position, and I was informed at Hiroshima that the gentlemen I met there were among the leading capitalists of that city. (See Exhibit No. 20.) I find that the emigration companies all advertise more or less in the newspapers for contract labourers, designating them to go to Hawaii, Peru and Mexico, and that in a general way they advertise through circulars, pamphlets, and by means of travelling solicitors for emigrants going to the United States. (See Exhibits Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. In this connection, I desire to call your attention to the circulars and emigrants' pamphlets of the Koesi Emigration Company and the Kobe Toko Emigration Company. {Exhibits Nos. 2 and 33.) I heard of advertisements of a similar nature by other companies, •it I found it impossible to obtain copies of them. The documentary evidence herein presented, as a whole, shows that the business is vigorously and aggressively prosecuted through personal solicitation of agents, whose earnings depend on their zeal and success. This is particularly brought out by the fact, which clearly appears, that the emigration companies are all provided with blanks for obtaining passports, which they naturally would not keep on hand unless it was profitable to do so. In fact, the evidence herewith presented, and all circumstances connected therewith, and which fell under my observation, tend to show and, in my opinion, establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the capitalists interested in these companies have taken advantage of the law for the protection of emigrants to build thereon a system which has no parallel. The system presents an interesting study in the linking together of money- making enterprises, which must obtain their profit through a common source. Agents of the^steamship companies and emigration companies do not occupy offices together. They are, nevertheless, very closely connected through the brokers and hotel keepers, and it is hard to draw a line of separation of interests. Many of the hotel keepers are emigration brokers, and nearly all brokers are intimately connected with the emigration companies ; while it is safe to assert that if the steamship companies were to establish and maintain a fixed rate for steerage passage, it would cut the profits of the brokers, hotel-keepers and emigration companies 50 per cent and it seems to me conclusive that if it were not for the existence, of the emigration companies and these agencies, for the collection of emigrants to go abroad, the profits of the steamship companies would be materially reduced. By their present methods the steamship companies, whether intentionally or otherwise, clearly offer inducements for the emigration companies to solicit the emigrants; both being large capitalized enterprises, that have a mutual interest, which is inseparable, as long-as they are allowed to exist side by ride, the one to obtain fees from emigrants and the other to receive steerage passage. (See Exhibits Nos. 7, 8. 13, 28). The emigration company is exploited as a beneficiary institution and a similar argument is made in their favour by high officials of the Japanese Government (See Exhibit No. 9), but if any number worth mentioning has been returned to Japan by the emigration companies* I have been unable to discover the fact. (See Exhibit No. 1 and the statements of the officers of the emigration companies and Kensho.) However, if the term ' beneficiary' is made to apply to the filhng of the pockets of the stockholders of the emigration companies and others interested in the movements of emigrants, and to the fact that the system affords a splendid means of getting rid of a congested popu- 416 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 1 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 lation, then in that sense it is eminently beneficiary, because it is a matter of general repute that they are the most profitable enterprises in Japan. Great stress was laid by Japanese officials, with whom I conversed, upon the fact that the Japanese Government requires every emigrant to provide sureties to provide for his return to the country in case of need, before granting a passport. This fact is pointed out by a Mr. Shimamura. (See page 14, Exhibit No. 9.) The system may be a benefit to Japan, but I deny that it is an advantage to other countries. The aged and decrepit cannot emigrate, and the percentage"* of those who do and become paupers amounts to nothing. \This is shown by practical experience, while on the other hand their laws are so strict that they defeat their own purposes. It is a well known fact in Japan, and clearly appears in nearly all the exhibits hereto attached, that it was the difficulty experienced by the coolie class in obtaining sureties and obtaining passports that suggested and built up the emigration companies. (See Exhibits 7, 10.) There are really no fixed rates of Japanese steerage, so that the steamship companies if not voluntary parties to the system described are made involuntary contributors to the emigration companies and emigration brokers. (Copies of the so- called free contract, issued by the emigration companies for emigrants going to the United States and Canada, furnished me by the foreign office in Tokyo, are attached as Exhibit No. 1.) It will be noticed in the statement of Kencho or prefecture officers and emigration company officers that they all declare that these free contracts are not now used in connection with emigrants going to the United States. It strikes me as rather peculiar, however, if this is true that the Japanese minister of foreign affairs in transmitting these blank contracts and emigration pape^ to his excellency the United States minister at Tokio did not mention that fact. Moreover, by referring to Exhibits Nos. 11 and 12 it appears that free contracts were provided at one or more prefectures as late as January 28, 1898. (See particularly the transcript in the case of Sakamoto Kyuta and wife and Doihata Yoichi, Exhibit No. 12.) It is possibly true that some companies, finding that emigrants found with these contracts on their persons or in their baggage at American ports had more or less trouble, discontinued the using written contracts and substituted a mere memoranda with the emigrant, and some means by which he might make himself known to the agent in this country, the emigration company obtaining passports and otherwise looking after the emigrant, it being explained to the latter that the agent and other friends in the United States would see that provision was made for employment. The evidence of the soundness of this view is found throughout the evidence submitted, and I call your attention particularly to the fact that all of the agents of the emigration companies whom I interviewed, with possibly one exception, on being asked ' To what countries does your company send emigrants ?' invariably included the United States in their answer. Later on, when they had discovered the trend of my inquiries, they tried to hedge and qualify their former statement. I direct your attention to the testimony on this of Mr. Nacayama (Exhibit No 40); to the advertisement of the Koesei Emigration Company (Exhibit No. 33), and to the fact that all companies keep blanks suitable for such purpose, and to Exhibits Nos. 5, 6, 15, 16, 17, 21. Exhibits Nos. 18 and 19 are well worthy of consideration in this connection, the latter being the statement of a man long in the business and who should be able to tell how it is done. Mr. U. in his statement says that a verbal agreement is made with the labourers in Japan. If only ten or so are wanted, the agent has a letter of credit or the men are supplied with funds to land, which is afterwards returned to the agent. Should a much larger number of labourers be required, then they send an appointed man connected with the agency to accompany them, he being a passenger to all intents and purposes. After their arrival (which I understand to mean in the United States) they, the labourers, sign a contract, which is in accordance with the verbal agreement made previous to their departure from Japan. This plan is similar to that detailed by Mr. Omi at the United States legation, who informed me that he obtained his information from an officer of an emigration company. Then again, a pertinent suggestion, if these companies are not engaged in sending emigrants to the United States, why do they have agents here ? Upon this point see ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 417 SESSIONAL PAPER ISto.; 54 managers and stockholders of the Hiroshima Emigration Com- with money and means for coming to this country, referred to above: but taking the testimony all also interview with the pany. (Exhibit No. 20.) Touching the question as to what extent the emigration companies supply emigrants I have no other evidence than that together, it seems to me that the circumstances go to show that the emigration companies engage in any feature of the business which may seem profitable. I have elsewhere in this report called attention to the blank forms of contracts issued for sending free emigrants to the United States and Canada. Exhibits Nos. 22 and 26 afford a thorough understanding of the intricate system which is in force by the various prefectures in granting passports. The mass of coolie farmers of Japan are very ignorant, and in the very nature of things require assistance in obtaining their passports under, such a system.. Touching the emigration to the United States through Canada, I am of the opinion,, through personal observation, that 90 per cent of the emigrants to Canada find their way to the United States within two weeks after landing at Yictoria or Yancouver, and 90 per cent of those landing in British Columbia are assisted by emigration companies that maintain agents in British Columbia and in California. The records included in exhibit No. 27 were furnished me by the governors of the provinces of Wakayama and Hiroshima respectively, and are complete transcripts of papers on file, upon which passports were granted to nine Japanese—T. Yiyabe, T. Hamamoto, M. Nakate, H. Nakate, T. Sumidi, Y. Omori, B. Yoshida, T. Narukawa, and R. Shugite, who emigrated to Victoria, and thence via coast line steamers to San Francisco (See their affidavits taken from the port of San Francisco, at my request, and forwarded to me in Japan). These men went under what is known as the free contract with the Kosei, Kyushiu, and Kobe emigration companies respectively. By referring to exhibit No. 1, and the list of agents of the emigration companies in Yictoria and San Francisco, it will be seen that a line of communication is thus established, by which this class of labour is introduced into the United States. This view is further confirmed by a transcript of the testimony in the matter of hearing of the case of ten Japanese steerage passengers from Yictoria by the steamer Walla Walla, about the 10th day of April, 1899. See also the report by Inspector Oeffeney (Exhibit No. 31), locating certain companies agents in San Francisco and at San Jose. I talked with many men of long experience in Japan, and found but oiie universal opinion, that not 10 per cent of the emigrants leaving that country could or would go unless they had assistance, or were helped or assisted by some person or influence. Aside from the facts herein presented, the coolie class could find no proper sureties, such as are required by the government, unless some arrangement was provided by responsible parties for looking after this class of emigrants after they land in the United States. The magnitude of the capital invested, requiring the utmost energy and most aggressive management to make it profitable, which, considered with the zeal, begotten of competition, between the emigration companies and the influence of wealth and political connection, points to but one conclusion • consequently I am forced to the conclusion that the Japanese system of granting passports for a limited period requiring surety for the welfare of the emigrant aboard, and in some cases for the care of his family while absent. and his return when sick or disabled, joined with the avarice of organized capital and influence of emigration companies, is the direct inducing cause of 90 per cent of the emigration from Japan to the United States. Exhibit No. 29, which is a scheme devised by the managers of the emigration companies to evade what they expected to be the law, as applied to the Hawaiian Islands,, illustrates the skill and willingness of those interested in emigration in Japan to boldly defy the law when it conflicts with their interests and serves as a key to the system I have herein described; this justifies conclusions drawn therefrom. I find further, owing to the conditions herein described, that the objects and purposes of the laws of the United States regulating immigration are largely defeated, so far as relates to immigration from Japan. It may readily be perceived that such an organized system, having; its feeders among ticket brokers and hotel keepers, joined by ties of interest, and from 54—37 418 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 employment bureaus in Japan and on the Pacific coast, and by reason of its capital and power able to coerce the steamship companies into dividing their profits, with a perfect system of coaching immigrants as to the requirements of the immigration laws of the United States, that the immigration officers here are practically powerless to hold back the influx of pauper and contract labour from Japan, which is increasing year by year. In conclusion, I beg to acknowledge iny obligation to his excellency Alfred E. Buck and Messrs. Miller and Herod, of the United States legation; to Mr. G. Hayashi, assistant secretary of the Japanese foreign office; to Consul-General Gowey and Messrs. McLean and McCance, of the American consulate at Yokohama; to Consul Lyon, of the United States consulate at Kobe, and to Commissioner H. H. North and Inspector A. H. Geffeney, of San Francisco, for their zealous and unselfish co-operation, which has contributed largely to whatever success has attended this investigation. W. M. RICE, Commissioner of Immigration. f [ Treasury Department, United States Immigration Service, Yancouver, B. C, May 2, 1899. The Commissioner-General of Immigration, Washington, D. C. Supplemented to and in continuation of my report of the 24th ultimo, relating to the immigration of Japanese to the United States, I have the honour to report as follows on the morals of the coolie class, from which 99 per cent of the immigrants of the United States are drawn; the condition of labour in Japan • the movement of population; and other features bearing upon the character of the Japanese people, their qualities as immigrants, and the encouragement of immigration from Japan to the United States and other countries by capitalists and officials. It is thirty-two years since Mitsuhito, the one hundred and twenty-third Mikado of Japan began his reign. The Japanese designate this period as Meiji, or the beginning of enlightened government, and no one will question the fact that Japan has made immense strides along the material side of modern civilization during these years. It may be admitted, but it may also be doubted, that in the matter of government great improvement has been made; but in attaining the essential elements of individual character, which makes for all that is best in western civilization, the Japanese have made but little progress. The first idea that occurs to a thoughtful observer in the Flowery Kingdom, after becoming more or less familiar with conditions there, is that the Japanese have hypnotized the balance of the world, or else a certain class of writers have terribly buncoed the reading public on this point. Mr. William E. Griffis, a writer of ability and a gentleman who has had great opportunities for observation, says, in a recent article contributed to the Outlook : \ It is very certain that, whether intending it or not, the average newspaper correspondent and hasty tourist wishing to please both the Japanese themselves (who love 'sugar and superlatives') and the occidental admirers of ' Japanism,' give what, when analyzed, are caricatures of truth. They ignore both the men and the forces that have made the new Japan. Some of these literary *. impressionists' seem to be so Japanese- mad in their rhapsodies as to suggest Titania before Bottom. In the name of all our inheritance, let us not cast away perspective or take a Japanese poster as the gauge and measure of reality.' The Japanese were never wealthy as a people. There are no rich men in Japan, who have acquired their wealth from Japan, unless it was through the conversion of landed estates or by speculating upon the labour of other men. The country produces no inventors, no original ideas, except along the line of its peculiar art in curios, silk, embroideries and pottery, and practically has no literature. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 419 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Only the Samuri, or soldier class, or nobility have enjoyed the comforts or culture of wealth until recent years, and until this time 50 per cent of the population live in the most squalid poverty, and the remainder of the common people, to put it mildly, are poor. It is not surprising that such is the case. It is historical that the population of Japan had outgrown the capacity of the soil to furnish food thirty years ago, and they have been enabled to live only by the practice of the strictest economy with food products. Infanticide was common; no deformed was allowed to live, the girl babies were not popular. Famines were frequent and loathsome and immoral diseases were everywhere prevalent, which have left their imprint upon the people to the present day. The people were habitual gamblers. In most of the municipalities, forming a city by itself, was a large colony of women for immoral purposes—a system recognized by usage ^tnd law and which prevails to this day. In fact the decencies of life were unknown except among a very few. It is not possible that a generation and a half could regenerate such a people. There is, it is true, a brighter side to new Japan, a regenerated section of the population who have taken on European ideas, who are struggling for better things, but the future is still veiled in uncertainty. It is with Japan of today, however, that I have to deal, and with that class of people who emigrate. First, there are a few merchants and business men • second, a few students and young men, the sons of Japanese of the better professional and commercial -class * third, the great mass of immigrants, say 95. per cent of the whole, who are coolie labourers and small farmers who class as coolies. The first proposition I desire to advance, and the conclusions reached from observations and information otherwise obtained, is that Japan is now over-populated and her soil worn out; that her population is increasing by leaps and bounds. I need not enter upon a description of Japan, its barren aspect, its barren, treeless range of mountains which are features with which all are familiar. It is only the valleys and hillsides and flat lands adjacent to the sea that are tillable. The soil upon these flats and hillsides is light and utterly lacking in strength. In contains but little vegetable mould and receives no nourishment whatever from nature except through copious rains and washing from the wornout hillsides. Weeds and grass are unknown. The crops are dependent entirely upon artificial fertilizers, which are applied to the growing plant generally in a liquid form. Everything that can be made use of foi fertilizing being carefully saved up by the people. The husbandman must give to the soil as much as he expects in return. The best sources of information claim that from 10 to 15 per cent of the land of the empire, exclusive of Formosa, is tillable, and that probably not more than 2 per oent of undesirable lands remain to be put under plough. The area of the entire empire —and I will say here I do not in any case include Formosa—is 24,799 square ri, of which Professor Rein, an authority upon Japanese industry and agriculture, says •but 12 per cent is tillable and that is under cultivation.' He, however, probably did not take into consideration a part of the lands on the island of Yezzo, and of course did not take into consideration Formosa. A native writer says that among the evils coming with the new era of things is the fact that land is being changed from the ownership of small proprietors to the hands of richer men. The following statistics, compiled by the home department, give the total population at the end of 1897 as follows :— 21,823,651 males and 21,405,213 females. Classified according to family status, there are 4,423 peers, 2,089,134 shizohu, and 41,135,206 o dinary citizens. The above figures show, when compared with those of the previous year (1896), an increase of 520,599 in population. Births and deaths during 1897 were: Births, 1,335,125—males, 684,941, and females, 650,184 ; deaths, 876,837—males, 452,383, and females, 424,454. The number of marriages was 365,207, and divorce cases 124,075. The average percentage of annual increase, taken during ten years, is 1*04. The population to the square mile is 293, the density being, of course, immeasurably greater in the inhabited sections, where, outside of the cities, the people live in small villages. The great mass of the people live by farming, which includes silk raising and fishing, at which occupations they earn from 100 to 150 yens per annum, which suffices to support 54—271 420 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1905 1 a family of about four, a man, a wife, and two or three children. In larger families the mother and older children work. The agricultural implements used are of the most primitive character, and the allotment of land to the family or individual is in most cases less than an acre. There are no division fences, each little tract being divided from its neighbour by a little ridge of dirt, from 1^ t > 3 feet wide. The value placed upon tillable land is suggested by the fact that the government is now trying to re-form the boundaries so as to reduce the width of these division lines and thus restore to cultivation, it is claimed, about 175,000 acres of land throughout the entire empire. There has been an effort to introduce, which, of course, is well known, various foreign manufactures. The success of these enterprises has not yet proved conspicuous, but the effort, with the fact that the agricultural land everywhere, except on the islands of Yezzo and Formosa, is all occupied, has tended to build up the cities toward which the influx of population is continuous. Factory employees earn from 15 to 20 sen per day. Investigations made by a representative of the Jiji (a leading vernacular paper in Tokio) show that the wages of operatives rose on an average of 30 per cent between 1895 and 1897, the comparative table being as follows :— Occupation. V- August,1897. August, 1895. Carpenter Sf^Nw Plasterer ......... Painter Mason sp Sawyer Roofer (tile) ii (brick)... ., Floor mat maker Jataguya (maker of doors, &c) Papering Cabinetmaker Cooper ...... Wooden clog maker , Shoemakers— First class Second class Third class Carriagemakers— First class Second class Third class Tailor— • Japanese style Foreign style— First class Second class Third class Ribbon marker Fukuromonoya (maker of purses, tobacco pouches, &c. First .class , Second class Dyer .... Cotton whipper Blacksmith Filemaker Tobacco cutter Ship carpenter— First class Second class $ Third class Gardener , Coolie .Bookbinder Sculptor— First class Second class.. Thud-class Sen. 0 CO 0 80 0 80 0 f0 0 70 0 70 0 55 0 80 0 60 0 75 0 70 0 30 0 30 1 20 0 80 0 50 0 60 0 50 0 40 0 40 1 50 1 00 0 80 1 30 1 00 0 70 0 35 0 30 0 60 1 00 0 44 0 80 0 70 0 60 0 50 0 40 0 70 5 CO 1 50 1 00 ►sen. 0 40 0 60 0 60 0 50 0 60 0 50 0 40 0 W 0 50 0 5C 0 50 0 25 0 25 0 90 0 60 0 40 0 50 0 43 0 33 0 30 1 20 0 80 0 60 1 00 0 80 0 50 0 20 0 25 0 45 0 80 0 36 0 65 0 60 0 55 0 30 0 30 0 50 3 00 1 00 0 70 Increase. Sen. !0"20 0 20 0 20 0 30 0 10 0 20 0 15 0 20 0 10 0 25 0 20 0 05 0 05 0 30 0 20 0 10 0 10 0 07 0 07 0 10 0 30 0 20 0 20 0 30 0 20 0 20 0 15 0 05 0 15 0 20 0 08 0 15 0 10 0 05 0 20 0 10 0 20 2 00 0 50 0 30 ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 Farm labourers earn from fifteen to thirty sen per day, depending upon locality. Another reputable authority says that, while wages have increased 44 per cent, living has increased 64 per cent. Upon this point I beg to call your attention to chapters 3 and 16 of the report on the commerce and industries of Japan, made under the direction of the National Association of Manufacturers of the United States by the Hon. Robert P. Porter. The labour which Japan sends abroad is pauper labour. My reasons for thus classing it are that the over-population of Japan has reduced the value of labour below a decent living point, measured by a civilized standard, and, further, that this competition is increasing in such force that it seems unreasonable to assume the probability of the value of labour approximating the cost of future products and living. ' The agricultural interests of Japan are practically incapable of expansion, which forces all surplus labour into the employment of various manufactures and into fishing. Japan's market for manufactures is, and must for fifty years remain, very limited, if we except silk, pottery, curios, &c., and even the demand for the native products must find a limit. I was informed by Mr. that Mr. , a leading member of parliament from the Province of Kyushu, told him that his province (Kyushu) was annually producing a thousand more labourers than they could find employment for at home. At the time this conversation occurred this Japanese member of parliament was on his way to one of the southern islands to see if arrangements could not be made to take labourers there. This member of parliament, in his conversation with Mr. , spoke of the situation as. one which gave them great concern. The question naturally occurs, how do they raise sufficient money to emigrate 1 As I intimated in my report of the 24th ultimo, the emigration companies in certain instances furnish them money, sending a Banto along with the emigrants to look after their interest. I found, by inquiring among the people, that it requires from five to ten years for a Japanese farmer to save 200 yen. Some undoubtedly do this, but the majority secure money by selling their holdings and by borrowing from the emigration oompanies—friends and relatives, upon whom they are more or less dependent, going their security. The laws are very strict in Japan concerning the collection of debts. There are no exemptions, and hence in view of the fact that every emigrant to the United States is able to send money home, this is a safe business. Besides, the pickings of the emigration companies enable them to get back a large part of the funds loaned the emigrant before he sails. I cannot, of course, prove this state of facts, but all the circumstances concur in supporting this view. Concerning the physical conditions surrounding the factory operatives, the Jiji, which is the most influential and conservative paper in Japan, styles the spinning factories as jj hellish pits.' My observation leads me to credit this statement to the fullest extent. Child and girl labour is largely employed at rates running from four to ten sen per day. The best workers in Japan are considered to be those engaged in the building trades, blacksmithing, tailoring and printing. Apprentices in the most of these trades are required to give their employers many years of service, receiving as an acknowledgment of past favours only two to three yen per month as purse money. During the period of apprenticeship there is no opportunity of acquiring even a rudimentary education. It is not unreasonable to declare that the life of the Japanese labourer is largely, if not wholly, destitute of pleasure and comfort and full of hardships and misery. The Jinricksha men are a large and useful class, but their lot is far from enviable. The majority of them are married men and have from three to five children, but. they are nevertheless reputed to be a very dissolute, immoral and wasteful body of men • their homes are very inferior, their houses being built in a row of 10 x 50 feet^ partitioned off, giving each abode a space of 10 x 12 ft. The finishing of these houses is very meagre. Farm houses are somewhat larger, but aside from their environments are but little better. The facilities for cooking are very limited. Rent for the houses of labouring men ranges from 40 sen to 1| per month, according to the location and condition, of the house. Large numbers of the ♦ • *i women and children of the working classes work at home, pasting match boxes, paper boxes, «fcc, and earning perhaps from 5 to 10 sen per day. A man as a worker in Japan is socially a doomed being, whether he be a mechanic of an advanced trade or a I 422 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 7 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 waste-paper picker. The conspicuous characteristics of all classes of labourers and the majority of farmers are ignorance, and, in numerous cases, vulgarity. Large quantities of saki and Japanese beer are consumed by these classes, but their effects are not perceptible to the casual observer. The reputation of the Japanese as a drunken man is that he is good natured and jolly, consequently there is but little brawling; but, if I were called upon to point out a conspicuous national evil, I should say it was cigarette smoking, which prevails everywhere among men and women, and even the children are allowed to smoke unrebuked. Those women who do not smoke cigarettes smoke a small pipe. The first thing a Japanese does on getting into a railroad car is to light his cigarette, and the fumes of tobacco fill the train from one end to the other. This habit prevails among all classes of people. Of course, the wealthier smoke cigars. Morally, the conditions of the lives of the coolie, farm and labouring classes are very low, and it is an unfortunate fact that, naturally quick and imitative as well, the Japanese people are slow to take on new and reformed ideas of social morality and integrity with their new clothes and much-vaunted new enlightenment. Home life is, as a rule, devoid of the pleasures and associations of western civilization. The father is the great * I am,' a selfish, petty tyrant, whose comfort requires that all shall bend to his will and pleasure • the mother, with rare exceptions, is a nonentity; all others in the family are inferiors. The conjugal relation is exceedingly loose, concubinage being practiced by those who can afford the. luxury and is recognized by law. Marriage is the simplest form of civil contract. Under the new code, which attempts to reform the old system, the married couple must appear, within three days after entering upon their new relation, before the mayor of the city or the head man of the village, and sign a document of marriage and place their seal thereon, which is then filed or registered. In this connection, I was informed by the officers of the various governors whom I visited, that before granting passports to women as married, these records, or other evidence of marriage, are carefully inquired into. It is a fact, however, believed by all the immigration officers with whom I have talked, that at least 75 per cent of the women who come to the United States are lewd, or at least of such a low quality of virtue that they are easily overcome by the conditions which they find in this country. Few immigrants bring their wives with them, and the excess of Japanese men over women in this country renders it difficult, if not impossible, for the majority of Japanese women who obtain a landing here to avoid becoming promiscuous in their relations with men. An officer of the occidental and oriental steamer Doric told me in conversation that he had witnessed immoral, practices among Japanese emigrants aboard the steamer m plain view of all the steerage passengers. Even when the steamers are provided with separate compartments for women in the steerage they will not occupy them. Divorces are very numerous. Until recently the husband merely returned his wife to her family when he became tired of her or otherwise displeased. The new code, however, abolishes that practice, and allows the wife to make a defence in court. I find the average number of marriages for six years to be 377,043 per year, and the average divorces during the same period to have been 113,935. The legitimate live births for 1896 were 84,879, about 7 per cent of the total live births. The number of stillborn children for 1896—not taken into consideration with the live births—was 127,213. Immature marriages are a serious evil which the government is trying to reform. In some of the provinces the usual age for marriage among women has been from 12 to 18 years, and for boys the age was but little over. It is claimed, however, that a favourable change is being brought about. Naturally, this has produced a dwarfed race. The Japanese are not a strong people, as a whole, their constant labour, exposure, their feet (many of them being in the water when employed upon the farm), having had a most injurious effect, although apparently they enjoy good health. They appear to have a tendency to disease of the lungs. This was particularly observed among Jinricksha men. The people are cleanly, and their towns and streets are remarkably so,. owing probably to the fact that all the garbage is carefully saved for fertilizing purposes. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 423 SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 There are large numbers of lepers about the temples and on the roads leading thereto. No provision is made for their care, and the official statistics as to numbers—15,525— are unquestionably greatly underestimated. One of the most serious blemishes on the national character is lack of business integrity and disregard for the truth, which, it is claimed by Europeans, prevails among all classes. Without a single exception, every European with whom I conversed (which was many) confirmed this view. An eminent professor in the University of Tokio, whose name I may not mention, referring to the habitual indulgence of falsehood in Japanese people^ said :— -tjjg| ' The Japanese idea of truth is like their idea of punctuality. They admit the desirability of punctuality, but if one is behind time they say what is the use of making a fuss about it They respect a man who -tells the truth, but they say one can not always tell the truti, and what of it ? It is a desirable thing, but not always practicable.' The result of such a view of veracity is that individually, with exceptions, they can not be trusted when they have interests involved. The standing of the Chinamen among business men in these respects is much better. The Japanese are endeavouring and are making commendable progress in perfecting their school system, but its efficiency, like everything else in the country, has been greatly exaggerated, and is largely on paper, which is equally true of the educational attainments of the mass of the people. To be able to read and write, with a limited knowledge of mathematics, does not indicate the same degree of mental culture which these attainments would in people of European origin, and with the mass of the people it indicates no moral culture whatever. In view of the limited resources of the country and the constantly increasing population, it is apparent that the government will have great difficulty in providing school facilities for all in the future, which fact forms a great incentive on the part of the economists and capitalists to encourage emigration abroad. The number of children who do not attend school is an unknown quantity, being very large, and I am inclined to doubt the reliability of the statistics furnished upon this point. Many of the disadvantages under which these interesting people labour, are such as should not be charged up to a wilful blindness. Much may be attributed to misfortune and past conditions, and the more enlightened among them look forward with hopefulness to their correction • but the crowning infamy of their social system, and for which no excuse can be offered in the present age, is the light in which they regard the social evil and the conditions resulting therefrom. Every city has its Yoshiwara, or section set apart for houses of ill-fame, which are authorized and protected by the police. These people, while isolated for sanitary reasons, are not regarded with shame, but form an important feature of all the larger communities. The inmates of these places, or * Joro,' as they are called, are replenished from the naturally depraved to some extent, but large numbers of innocent girls are unwittingly to themselves and sometimes with their knowledge of the consequences, sold by their natural protectors for various reasons into the Yoshiwara, from which there is no escape, unless some man buys them out for his own use. In the latter case, by marriage, they are restored to respectable society among the lower classes. A gentleman (an Englishman) who had married a Japanese wife and been adopted into the family, having taken the name of Kobayashi Beiki, and who has written a very large book on the Yoshiwara of Tokio, informed me that he had investigated the records of the Yoshiwara of that city and found that they show that about 1,500,000 men had visited these houses during the year 1897, the law requiring that each visitor should be registered and reported to the police. The prices at which girls are sold into the Yoshiwara range from 50 to 150 yen, and I was informed that they might be purchased out at about the same figures. A small section of the press are beginning to denounce this system, but for many years it must continue to poison the national morals and furnish a supply of lewd women, who from time to time escape abroad, in spite of the vigilance of the authorities, who profess to be very strict about allowing unmarried women to go abroad. It should be borne, in mind that in this report I am treating exclusively of the 424 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 immigrating class, which comes largely from the lower order. Naturally, there is a wide, line of demarkation between this class and the better people, who may constitute one- fourth of the population more or less, but it is equally true that there is a sad lack of national integrity, character and conscience among all, but few of the more cultured, and possibly excepting the higher official class. Christianity up to the present time has wielded but little influence, except in an •educational way, in the ordinary meaning of the term education. Japan is yet a pagan nation and the present tendency, as they break away f **om their ancient religion, is to drift into opportunism politically, and into agnosticism religiously, with the moral effects which follow such views among the ignorant and uneducated. The result is that the mation, as a whole, presents the aspect of being morally mad. There is apparently no sense of responsibility to society or to Deity. Among such a people and under such •conditions the contract labour system is a logical outgrowth. The emigration companies, which prey upon these ignorant but ambitious and conceited people, are regarded by. them, with now and then a rare exception, as a necessity, going with and belonging to the conditions with which nature and their industrial development has confronted them. While the government denies any responsibility or desire to encourage emigration, the condition . which are herein set forth lead up to but one conclusion. The emigration companies are indifferent to any consideration, except that of profit, while the government permits the system, if it does not encourage it, in which it has a selfish interest, because it assists in relieving the country of a troublesome and what might become a turbulent population. The limited resources of Japan, its lack of capital and markets for new manufactures, which is suggested by the facts I have herein detailed, considered with the fact that there is no land to which these people will go for agricultural expansion within the Empire, seems to suggest the impossibility of the absorption of 250,000 male labourers annually, leaving out of consideration women to an equal number. It is true that there is unoccupied land in Formosa, but the Japanese are averse to emigrating there because of the hot,v wet climate. There is also unoccupied land in Yezzo, but that island is covered with snow one-half the year, and abounds with mosquitoes during a very hot summer, consequently it is doubtful whether the Japanese coolie can be hired to go there. The government has made, and is making, efforts to induce immigration to these islands, but with little success. Aside from the climatic conditions described, which are displeasing to the Japanese, there are other reasons why they will not go. The Japanese lives in the present \ he is not, and never will be, an independent pioneer ■ he wants immediate profits, or wages; hence he desires to emigrate to civilized countries where he can earn good wages, and as he expresses it, * learn English,' and howr to farm and do other things as the more-favoured nations do, and, after he has achieved these results and made some money, place himself in a position to return to his native land in from three to five years; hence it is an easy matter for the agents of the emigration companies to persuade large nnmbers to come to the west. They are beguiled with rosy stories of high wages and immediate employment. The Pacific coast is a favoured locality with them, not only on account of the wages paid, but because of the climate, which is very similar to that in the neighbourhood of Nagasaki, Kobe*, and Yokohama; consequently there is a strong immigration movement. At present immigrants, aside from those who come to the United States and Canada, are: going to Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Hawaii, Korea, and indeed to every country where contract labourers may be placed i but it requires much persuasion to induce them to go to Mexico, Peru and Brazil. The foreign office furnished me the following statistics, which I do not regard as of much value, of the actual number of Japanese residing in foreign countries at the end of 1897 : ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION SESSIONAL PAPER No. 54 425. Males. Females. Total. San Francisco and neighbourhood 5,212 •79 387- 461 385 402 214 291 122 158 991 1,413 890 21,470 1,097 2,285 862 3,397 492 269 3 61 60 27 21 7 7 125 456 53 60 717" 5,884 790 1,664 561 2,670 331 5,481 82 Taconia and neighbourhood Seattle, &c ; ..; 448 521 412 Vancouver, &c -W-- ."." . 423-- Union coal mines 221 . 298 2*?: 614 - 1,044 1,473 1,607 " 27,354 Townsville Yladivostock Hawaii .- Seoul y.: Chemulpo Shanghai .-.|~. 1 1,887 3,949 1,423 6,067 823 ; Total..- HI 40,608 13,766 54,374 In considering these statistics it should be borne in mind that nearly as many are returning to Japan from many of these countries as depart * but the number that return from the United States does not, it seems to me from observation, appear to be as large in comparison with the number who come as those returning from other countries. The manner and extent of the encouragement given to emigration by public men, capitalists and other individuals, evidently interested financially and from an economic standpoint in the emigration companies, may be inferred from Appendix A hereto attached, being references to the subject by the leading English and vernacular .newspapers. It will be observed that nearly all of the clippings are translations from Japanese papers. The Japan Times is a government organ, edited by a Japanese and published in English. The Jap n Mail is an English paper but pro-Japanese, while the other papers from which extracts have been taken are independent English papers. This report would not be complete without a reference to the fact that Australia and Canada are both legislating against the Japanese, the former restricting the immigration and the latter limiting the opportunities for obtaining employment. This movement, if it .goes on, will necessarily have an important effect upon the number who will try to obtain admission to the United States. During my stay in Japan I was much interested in the information obtained concerning the light in which the immigration laws of the United States are regarded. I came to the conclusion that the "average Japanese, by intelligence, is incapable of appreciating the motive behind the policy of the United States. The friendliness of the mass of the people for the United States and respect in which it is held is unmistakable; but this sentiment is childlike in its character, and is not based upon knowledge or a familiarity with the harmony between the principles upon which the Government of the United States is based and the laws carrying out those principles. Hence the immigration laws of the United States irritate them, because the motive is to them incomprej hensible. All have an intense longing to visit the United States or to come for the purposes of labour. The wealthy class have little or no respect for their own labouring class as individuals, and no sympathy with the toilers in the field and factory. Their condition is regarded as a decree of fate, and hence those who are capable rarely comprehend the dignity and rights of labour as it is regarded in this country. In my former report, I gave the facts as I gathered them touching the maimer emigrants are sent to tins and other countries. In this, I have endeavoured to give a brief bird's-eye view, superficial in some respects, but, as a whole, I believe, true to life of the motives which He behind the system described and the conditions which make it possible. There is much more that might be said, but I fear it might be deemed irre- 426 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION u 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 levant. I beg indulgence in expressing my opinion here, however, that the treaty which will go into effect in August between Japan and the United States is a great mistake for the people of Japan, as well as a great blunder on the part of the United States. My reasons in general for this view would not be appropriate in this report, but among them is the effect which it would have upon the power of the United States to control immigration from Japan. I have been informed that the treaty between Japan and England, made at the same time, makes provision for the control of immigration by Canada, New Zealand, Australia and other English colonies in the Pacific. The Anglo- Saxon, Latin and Semitic races mix, and in time make respectable men and women, even from the lowest conditions, but the oriental races do not mix well with the people of Europe, and the mixture, unless made among people in affluent circumstances, is always degrading to the European. Wealth and education may and does modify natural tendencies. Much trouble may, in my opinion, be expected from the results of this treaty, the difficulties in the way of regulating immigration being certain to be much greater than heretofore. The appendices hereto attached are evidences which sustain the views herein expressed, gathered by the way, and which might have been multiplied ad infinitum vhad I made these lines a special feature of my investigation. The special features of my investigation were set forth in part in my former report. The second special feature was the obtaining of information bearing directly upon individual emigrants and bodies of emigrants going to the United States, which might be used in excluding them on this side as contract labourers. To this end, I used every practical method at my command, causing bodies of outgoing emigrants to be interviewed both at Kobe and Yokohama by the most trustworthy persons I could secure for that purpose, also causing the hotel keepers to be pumped. It was either that my agencies were unreliable or the emigrants had been too well trained to give themselves away; at least my efforts in that direction were unsuccessful. The most reliable man, as I thought, whom 1 secured for this purpose, threw up the job on the advice of an American missionary whom he wcent to consult. It may be possible to occasionally secure evidence of this character, but it is very difficult, and I did not succeed. The consular officers in Japan are, in my opinion, thoroughly efficient, and it is a matter of pride to a citizen of the United States to compare them with the consular representatives of other countries • but under the present laws they are practically helpless in the matter of emigration. The character of their duties is such that they can not make a specialty of looking after emigrants, and if it were otherwise nothing could be accomplished without a secret service fund. Even an effort in that direction, as a permanent benefit, would be an experiment. In conclusion, I wish briefly to refer to the difficulties under which I laboured, and yet I may not dare to enter into detail upon the limitations which surround one gathering information which is regarded by the Japanese as injurious to their interests. They are intensely patriotic, which sentiment extends to a sense of duty not to knowingly i give each other away.5 The educated and intelligent are shrewd and intuitive in their perceptions, and are what the English designate as ' clever,' the word being synonymous with tricky. Few Europeans speak Japanese sufficiently well to make good interpreters, and I found but one European who could both read and speak Japanese; hence nearly all the work in the nature of translation must either be done by Japanese or by having a Japanese read to a European who speaks Japanese and writes in English as the Japanese reads. Then, again, all Europeans in Japan (which word in the orient includes citizens of the United States, are there for special and personal interest. They do not like to acquire the ill will of the people among whom they live, and consequently help from that source in all but two or three instances was half-hearted. Under these difficulties and many others I did the best that I could, and the information transmitted, of whatever value it may be, I believe to be reliable and accurate. Hoping that my labour herein may contribute something to the better enforcement of the immigration laws, W. M. RICE, United States Commissioner of Immigration. Labourers Labourers, agricultural (male) Labourers agricultural (female) Lacquered object makers Metal utensil makers. Mine-workers Oil-pressers Papermakers . Pasters, paper Plasterers Printers Roofers, shingle and thatch Roofers, tile Saddlers Sake-makers Sawyers Scutchers of cotton Servants, domestics Servants Ship-carpenters Shoemakers Shoemakers, Japanese shoes Silkworm cultivators (male) Silkworm cultivators (female) Snuff box, purses, &c. makers of Soy-maker Spinners, silk Stonecutters Straw-matting weavers Tailors, European clothing Tailors, Japanese clothing. Tea-preparers Tobacco-cutters Weavers (male) Weavers (female) Wheelwrights 428 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION THE NATAL ACT. :2 EDWARD-VII., A. 1902 Whereas it is desirable to place certain restrictions on immigration, Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of Natal, as follows :— 1. This Act may be known as "The Immigration Restriction Act, 1897." 2. This Act shall apply to :— ||y (a) Any person possessed of a certificate in the form set out in the schedule A to to this Act, annexed and signed by the Colonial Secretary or the Agent General of Natal, or any officer appointed by the Natal Government for the purposes of this Act whether in or out of Natal. (b) Any person of a class for whose immigration into Natal provision is made by law or by a scheme approved by Government. (c) Any person specially exempted from the operation of this Act by a writing under the hand of the Colonial Secretary. (d) Her Majesty's land and sea forces. (e) The officers and crew of any ship of war of any government. (f) Any person duly accredited to Natal by or under the authority of the Imperial or any other government. 3 The immigration into Natal, by land or sea, of any person of any of the classes defined in the following subsections, hereinafter called "prohibited immigrant," is prohibited, namely:— . (a) Any person who, when asked to do so by an officer appointed under this Act, shall fail to (himself) write out and sign, in the characters of any language of Europe, an application to the Colonial Secretary in the form set out in Schedule B to this Act. (b) Any person being a pauper or likely to become a public charge. (c) Any idiot or insane person. (d) Any person suffering from a loathsome or a dangerous contagious disease. (e) Any person who, not having received a free pardon, has within two years been convicted of a felony or other infamous crimes or misdemeanour involving moral turpitude, and not being a mere political offence. | (f) Any prostitute and any person living on the prostitution of others. 4. Any prohibited immigrant making his way into or being found within Natal, in disregard of the provisions of this Act, shall be deemed to have contravened this Act and shall be liable, in addition to any other penalty, to be removed from the colony and upon conviction may be sentenced to imprisonment not exceeding six months without hard labour. Provided that such imprisonment shall cease for the purpose of deportation of the offender, or if he shall find two approved sureties each in the sum of fifty pounds sterling that he will leave the colony within one month. 5. Any person appearing to be a prohibited immigrant within the meaning, of section 3 of this Act and not coming within the meaning of any of the subsections (c), (d), (e), (f), of the said section 3 shall be allowed to enter Natal upon the following conditions :— (a) He shall, before landing, deposit with an officer appointed under this Act the sum of one hundred pounds sterling. (b) If such person shall, within one week after entering Natal, obtain from the Colonial Secretary, or a magistrate, a certificate that he does not come within the prohibition of this Act, the deposit of one hundred pounds sterling shall be returned. (c) If such person shall fail to obtain such certificate within one week, the deposit of one hundred pounds sterling may be forfeited, and he may be treated as a prohibited immigrant. ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE IMMIGRATION 429 SESSIONAL PAPER No. "54 Provided that, in the case of any person entering Natal under this section, no liability shall attach to the vessel or to the owners of the vessel in which he may have arrived at any port of the colony. 6. Any person who shall satisfy an officer appointed under this Act that he has been formerly domiciled in Natal, and that he does not come within the meaning of any of the subsections (c), (d), (e), (j), of section 3 of this Act, shall not be regarded as a prohibited immigrant. 7. The wife and any minor child of a person not being a prohibited immigrant shall be free from any prohibition imposed by this Act. 8. The master and owners of any vessel from which any prohibited immigrant may be landed shall be jointly and severally liable to a penalty of not less than one hundred pounds sterling, and such penalty may be increased up to five thousand pounds sterling by sums of one hundred pounds sterling, each for every five prohibited immigrants after the first five, and the vessel may be made executable by a decree of the Supreme Court in satisfaction of any such penalty, and the vessel may be refused a clearance outwards until such penalty has been paid, and until provision has been made by the master to the satisfaction of an officer appointed iunder tljis Act for the conveyance out of the colony of each prohibited immigrant who may have been so landed. 9. A prohibited immigrant shall not be entitled to a license to carry on any trade or calling, nor shall he be entitled to acquire land in leasehold, freehold, or otherwise to exercise the franchise, or to be enrolled as a burgess Of any borough or on the roll of any township ; and any license or franchise right which may have been acquired in contravention of this Act shall be void. 10. Any officer thereto authorized by government may make a contract with the master, owners, or agent of any vessel for the conveyance of any prohibited immigrant found in Natal to a port in or near to such immigrant's country of birth, and any such immigrant with his personal effects may be placed by a police officer on board.such vessel and shall in such case, if destitute, be supplied with a sufficient sum of money to enable him to live for one month according to his circumstances in life after disembarking from such vessel. 11. Any person who shall in any way wilfully assist any prohibited immigrant to contravene the provisions of this Act shall be deemed to have contravened this Act. 12. Any person who shall in any way wilfully assist the entry into Natal of any prohibited immigrant of the class (f) in section 3 of this Act shall be deemed to have contravened this Act, and shall upon conviction be liable to be imprisoned with hard labour for any period not exceeding twelve months. 13. Any person who shall be wilfully instrumental in bringing into Natal an idiot or insane person without a written or printed authority, signed by the Colonial Secretary, shall be deemed to have contravened this Act, and in addition to any other penalty shall be liable for the cost of the maintenance of such idiot or insane person whilst in the colony. 14. Any police officer or other officer appointed therefor under this Act may, subject to the provisions of section 5, prevent any prohibited immigrant from entering Natal by land or sea. 15. The Governor may from time to time appoint, and at pleasure remove officers for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of this Act, and may define the duties of such officers, and such officers shall carry out the instructions from time to time given to them by the ministerial head of their department. 16. The Governor in Council may, from time to time, make, amend and repeal rules and regulations for the better carrying out of the provisions of this Act. 17. The penalty for any contravention of this Act or any rule or regulation passed thereunder, where no higher penalty is expressly imposed, shall not exceed a fine of fifty pounds sterling, or imprisonment with or without hard labour, until payment of such fine or in addition to such fine, but not exceeding in any case three months. T 430 REPORT OF ROYAL COMMISSION 2 EDWARD VII., A. 1902 18. All contraventions of this Act or of rules or regulations thereunder and suits for penalties or other moneys not exceeding one hundred pounds sterling shall be cognizable by magistrates. Colony of Natal. This is to certify that of aged by trade or calling a is a fit and proper person to be received as an immigrant in Natal. Dated at this day of (Signature.) ft SCHEDULE B. To the Colonial Secretary. I claim to be exempt from the operation of Act No. My full name is twelve months has been My business or calling is I was born at 1897. My place of abode for the past in the year Given at Government House, Natal, this fifth day of May, 1897. By command of His Excellency the Governor. THOS. K. MURRAY, Colonial Secretary. "«** cr CK f 9£Z~ HANDBOUND PARLIAMENT
Other copies: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/719999852
Books
English
Vancouver : University of British Columbia Library
Ottawa : S.E. Dawson
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Original Format: University of British Columbia. Library. Rare Books and Special Collections. F5032.C5 C21 1902
Japanese--Canada
Chinese--Canada
Canada--Emigration and immigration
Report of the Royal Commission on Chinese and Japanese Immigration
Text