CONTENTdm
British Columbia Historical Books Collection
Begbie, Matthew Baillie, Sir, 1819-1894
Crease, Henry Pering Pellew, Sir, 1823-1905
Gray, John Hamilton, 1814-1889
British Columbia. Royal Commission on Acquisition of Texada Island
66 pages ; 26 cm
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PAPERS RELATING TO THE A.lJI>OI]SrT]VIE]S[ T AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE ROYAL COMMISSION KOIl IXSTITUTINii ENQUIRIES INTO THE ACQl'ISITIOX OF TEXADA ISLAND. /',-r.ti iilnl tn tin' Lii/i's/ntirr AsKimlilj/ hy commaiul of Hi* K.i-nlli-nri/ tin1 Jjiritti naiit- Uuri'nwr. Mm~. YK.TOIJIA: i'lMNTK!) 1JV IllI'lIARl) \Y< ILFEXDEX, GOVERNMENT PRINTER, .M tiiv: dnvi:u\Mi:xT riiiNTixn oi'FICi', JAiixs' bay. j l«T*. PAPERS relating to the APPOINTMENT & PROCEEDINGS OF THE* ROYAL COMMISSION FOR INSTITUTING ENQUIRIES INTO THE ACQUISITION OF TEXADA ISLAND. JOHN ASH, Provincial Secretary. Provincial Secretary's Office, 16th November, 1874. Extract from Journals of the Legislative Assembly, 20th February, 1874. "Mr. Bobson moved, seconded by Mr. Smithe,— " "Whereas certain statements have appeared in the public newspapers connecting " the names of members of the late Government, and of the present Government, " with proceedings of a questionable character in relation to Texada Island^ in the '• Straits of Georgia; and whereas transactions are alleged to have taken place in "respect to said Island of a nature prejudicial to the public interest; be it therefore "Resolved,—That a respectful Address be presented to His Honor the Lieutenant-- " Governor, praying that he will cause a Royal Commission to be appointed, with " full power to take evidence under oath, and send for persons and papers, for the " purpose of enquiring into the whole matter, and reporting thereon to this House " at its next Session. " The following words of Mr. Bobson's were, upon request, taken down in writing " by the Clerk:—'I believe, and have good reason to believe, that there is truth in "'the charges, or some of them, to which the preamble to the Resolution refers. I " 'believe that those charges, or some of them, can be established.' " Mi'. Booth moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Semlin,— "That all the words after'Whereas' be struck out, and the following words "inserted instead:—'this House is of opinion that, before any Resolution calling for '"an investigation into the conduct of any Member of this House can be entertained, '"some charge ought to be brought forward by some Member of this House, in his " 'place, upon which such investigation may be founded.' "The amendment was withdrawn by leave of the House. 1 Royal Commission—Texada Island 1874 " Mi*. Saul moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Todd,— "After 'Whereas' strike out all words, and insert—'the Honorable Member " ' for Nanaimo has stated, in his place in this House, that certain statements have "'appeared in the public newspapers, connecting members of the lateGovern- "'ment and of the present Government with proceedings of a questionable nature, "'in relation to Texada Island, in the Straits of Georgia; and that certain other "' transactions are alleged to have taken place, in respect of said Island, of a nature "'prejudicial to the public interest; and whereas the said Honorable Member for "'Nanaimo has declined to pledge his belief of the truth of the said statements and "' charges, this House is of opinion that there is no sufficient ground shewn to justify "'it in moving His Honor the Lieutenant-Governor to issue a Royal Commission to '"inquire into the truth of the said newspaper statements.' " Amendment and motion as amended, put and carried. "The Standing Orders were suspended, and "The Honorable Mr. Walkem moved, seconded by the Honorable Mr. Beaven. " Whereas the Honorable the Member for Nanaimo has stated, in his place in " this House, that he was credibly informed—That prominent members of the late " and present Government were in a ring to acquire possession of Texada Island, in "a manner prejudicial to the interests of the public; that the late Premier, the " Honorable A. De Cosmos, had improperly used his political position, while lately " in Canada, to attempt to extort a large sum of money—$150,000—from Sir John "A. Macdonald's administration ; be it therefore Resolved,— " That a respectful Address be presented to His Honor the Lieutenant-Governor, " praying that he will cause a Royal Commission to be appointed, with full power " to take evidence under oath, and send for persons and papers, for the purpose of " enquiring into the whole matter, and reporting thereon to His Honor the Lieutenant- " Governor for publication. "By leave of the House, the Motion was amended, by striking out all the words "after the word 'public' down to and including the word 'administration' in the "preamble. " Motion, as amended, put and earned on the following division:— "Yeas: Messieurs Walkem, Beaven, Armstrong, Ash, Hunter, Mara, Bobson, " Barnston, Duck, Humphreys, McOreight, Booth, Itolbrook, Smithe, Mobertson.—15. "Nays: Messieurs Todd, Semlin, Hughes, Saul, Smith, Robinson.—6." 88 Vic. Royal Commission—texada Island Copy of the Appointment of the Royal Commission. Provincial Secretary's Office, 13th March, 1874. His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor has been pleased to make the following appointments :— s The Honorable Matthew Baillie Begbie, and the Honorable Henry Pering Pellew Crease, and the Honorable John Hamilton Gray, to be Commissioners to enquire into and report upon a certain Resolution moved in the House of Assembly by the Honorable the Attorney-General, relating to the allegations of the Honoi'- able Member for Nanaimo as to the acquisition of Texada Island. [L. S.] Joseph W. Trutch. Victoria, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, Defender of the Faith, &c, &c, &c. To the Honorables Matthew Baillie Begbie, Henry Pering Pellew Crease, and John Hamilton Gray, of Our Brovince of British Columbia—Greeting. Geo. A. Walkem, ) TTKTHEREAS by the "Public Inquiries Act, 1872," it is pro- Attorney-General. / V v vided that whenever Our Lieutenant-Governor deems it expedient to cause enquiry to be made into and concerning any matter connected with the good Government of this Province, or the conduct of any part of the public business thereof; and such enquiry is not regulated by any special law, Our said Lieutenant-Governor may, by the Commission in the Act, confer upon the Commissioners, or persons by whom such enquiry is to be conducted, the power therein mentioned. And whereas an humble Address of the Legislative Assembly, has been presented to our said Lieutenant-Governor, praying for the appointment of a Royal Commission to enquire into and report upon the allegations of the Honorable Member for Nanaimo, viz: " that prominent members of the late and present Government " were in a ring to acquire possession of Texada Island, in a manner prejudicial to " the interests of the public." NOW ENOW YE, that having every confidence in the ability of you and each of you, WE do hereby in pursuance of the powers contained in the " Public In- • quiries Act, 1872," and the " Public Inquiries Aid Amendment Act, 1873," and of all other powers and authorities US in that behalf enabling, constitute and appoint you and each of you, to be Commissioners with power to enquire into the truth of the allegations aforesaid, so far as the same refer to the good Government of this Province or reflect upon the conduct of any part of the public business thereof, and that you report thereon in writing to Our Lieutenant-Governor of Our Province of British Columbia. In Testimony We have caused the Public Seal of Our said Province to be hereunto affixed : Witness, the Honorable Joseph William Trutch, Lieutenant-Governor of Our said Province of British Columbia, at Victoria, in Our said Province, this Thirteenth day of March, in the year of Our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-four. By Command. (Signed) John Ash. 4 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 • The Royal Commissioners to the Provincial Secretary. Victoria, 8th October, 1874. Sir,—We have the honor to enclose the Report of the Commissioners relative to the Texada Island Enquiry. We beg to recommend that the witnesses who attended and were examined before the Commission by reason of a subpoena, or at the instance of the Commissioners, be allowed and paid their expenses, on the same footing as if they had been witnesses subpoenaed and examined in a cause in the Supreme Court; such expenses to be taxed by the proper' officer, and to include all proper Sheriff's charges for serving such subpoenas, and also all proper costs and expenses as witnesses both of Mr. Be Cosmos and Mr. Robson. We except from these witnesses Mr. Moody, Mr. Dalby, and Mr. Machar, who, in our opinion, ought not to be allowed for their attendance. We further recommend that Mr. Pooley, who has most diligently and satisfactorily discharged the duties .of Secretary to the Commission and taken down the testimony and engrossed the same to be enclosed herewith, be allowed and paid the sum of $150 for such services. We have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servants, (Signed) Matt. B. Begbie, "> Henry P. Pellew Crease, \ Commissioners. J. Hamilton Gray, J Memorandum of Documents^Enclosed. No 1. Report of the Commissioners. " 2. Interrogatories and answers—Dr. Tupper. " 3. Interrogatories and answers—Sir John Macdonald. " 4. Answers—Mr. Sproat. " 5. Letter from Mr. G. M. Sproat—2nd July, 1874. " 6. Letter from Deputy Provincial Secretary dated 14th August, 1874—two telegrams annexed from Mr. DeCosmos to the Hon. John Ash and to the Secretary Royal Commission. " 7. Copy of interrogatories sent to Mr. DeCosmos, but not answered as Mr. DeCosmos subsequently appeared before the Commission in person. , " 8. Letter from Mr. John Robson to Secretary Royal Commission, dated 19th August, 1874. " 9. Do. do. dated 26th August, 1874. " 10. Book containing proceedings before Royal Commission, and the evidence of the various witnesses. . (Signed) Chas. E. Pooley, Secretary. 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. No. 1. To the Honorable Joseph W. Trutch, Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of British Columbia. The undersigned, members of the Royal Commission, appointed by Your Excellency, on the 13th day of March last, to enquire into and report upon the allegations of the Honorable Member for Nanaimo, viz.:— "That prominent members of the late and present Government were in a ring " to acquire possession of Texada Island, in a manner prejudicial to the interests of "the public:" Beg, unanimously, to Report— That, on the 24th March, under and by virtue of such Commission, they held an open Court, at the Supreme Court in the City of Victoria, for that purpose, and continued to hold such open Court, by various sittings, until the 18th day of April, when they adjourned their sittings to New Westminster, for the greater facility of obtaining evidence and continuing the investigation there. _ That they held an open Court, at the Court House in New Westminster, by various sittings, until the 27th day of April, when they re-adjourned to the City of Victoria, re-opened the said Court there, and continued the investigations, by various sittings, until the 6th instant. That, at such sittings, the three Commissioners were all present, except on one occasion, viz. the 20th day of August, at Victoria, when an enquiry was held before the Honorables Messrs. Crease and Gray, as to the mode of examination, by interrogatories, of Mr. DeCosmos, a witness then absent at Ottawa, the Chief Justice on that occasion not being present, owing to his having gone to Cassiar on circuit. That at these various sittings, of which public notice was always given in the newspapers in Victoria, the Honorable Member for Nanaimo, Mr. Robson, was always present, and was afforded every opportunity, by examination and cross- examination of the witnesses, and by suggestion and argument, to promote the enquiry and establish the charge. That, in the course of the examination, an inquisitorial latitude was allowed, exceeding the extent of permission ever granted in Courts of Law governed by the rules of legal evidence. That all persons who were alleged as being able to give information touching the subject of enquiry, or whose names were suggested to the Commissioners, were subpcenaed as witnesses, and examined and cross-examined. That all books of account, or business of the persons.or firms, in which it was asserted that information could be found, were ordered to be produced, were produced and inspected. • ' That persons who were beyond the jurisdiction of the Province, and who, it was stated,_ were inculpated in the charge, or were alleged to be capable of giving information, were examined by interrogatories prepared by the Commissioners, of Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 which copies were, before being sent, read in open Court, or otherwise submitted to the Member for Nanaimo, for any suggestions he might make, points to which he might desire the enquiry to be directed, or any particular question he might wish to put. That all parties were invited to come forward and submit to the Commissioners any information they could give, that would aid in arriving at the truth. That Messrs. Walkem, Beaven, DeCosmos, Robson, and the other witnesses in British Columbia were examined and cross-examined on oath; Sir John Macdonald, Dr. Tupper, and Mr. Sproat, witnesses beyond the jurisdiction of the Province, on interrogatories not under oath. That all sources of enquiry, within their reach or under their control, having been now exhausted, and the evidence produced, duly weighed and considered, they find and report that the truth of the allegations aforesaid, so far as the same refer to the good government of this Province, or reflect upon the conduct of any part of the public business thereof has not been proved; and that no evidence has been produced before them to show " that prominent or any members of the late " and present Government were in a ' Ring' to acquire possession of Texada Island, " in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the public." And they beg further to report— That although there were circumstances apparently suspicious attending the pre-emptions in Texada Island in August, 1873, yet, in their opinion, upon a thorough examination of those circumstances, there is no sufficient ground to believe that any member of the late or present Government, either by himself, or in unlawful or dishonorable combination with any other person, has attempted to acquire possession of the whole or of any part of Texada Island, in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the public. They submit herewith the evidence taken, the correspondence produced and passed between all parties connected with the enquiry, and the interrogatories sent to the persons abroad, with their replies. Dated at Victoria, B. C, this 8th October, 1874. Matt. B. Begbie, ' "j Henry P. Pellew Crease, \ Commissioners. J. Hamilton Gray, J. " , No. 2. Interrogatories and Ansiocrs—Dr. Tapper. Memorandum. On the 20th February, 1874, in the House of Assembly, in Victoria, Mr. Robson M. P. P., moved a Resolution which was ultimately unsuccessful, but immediately thereafter, on the motion of Mr. G. A. Walkem, (Attorney-General and Premier) on behalf of the Government, a Resolution of a somewhat similar character was carried on a division. The particulars of the various motions and amendments, and the terms of the Resolution ultimately carried will appear from a copy of the " Votes and Proceedings' ' annexed hereto. 38 Vic. Royal Commission—texada Island. On the 13th March, 1874, in conformity with the Resolution so actually passed, a Commission was issued under the Public Seal of the Province, appointing the three Judges of the Supreme Court here, to enquire and report as to the truth of the allegations therein mentioned, " that prominent members of the late and pre- " sent Government were in a ring to acquire possession of Texada Island in a manner " prejudicial to the interests of the public." The expression "prominent members,'' is intended to designate Amor DeCosmos, M. P. P., (formerly President of the Council and Premier in British Columbia), and the said George' A. Walkem, and Robert Beaven, M. P. P., Chief Commissioner of Lands and Worksinthis Province. A copy of the said Commission as contained in the British Columbia Government Gazette, of the 21st March, 1874, is also hereto annexed. Interrogatories. 1. Did Amor DeCosmos, M. P., or G. A. Walkem, M. P. P., and Attorney- General of' British Columbia, or either of them, and which by name, negotiate or offer, or attempt to enter upon any treaty with you or with any other person, and if so, with whom by name, concerning any sale or disposition, or working of any lands or iron mines or minerals situate in Texada Island, in British Columbia, or of the produce of any such lands, mines or minerals? If yea, state the nature of such treaty or negotiation, or offered or proposed treaty or negotiation, and the names of the persons, if any, named by the said Amor DeCosmos and G. A. Walkem, or either of them, as being interested therein, and the terms mentioned or suggested as being acceptable or probably acceptable, or reasonable; and in particular state the sum of money, if any, which was mentioned,, or in any manner indicated as being a proper or fair price for such lands or mines, or other property mentioned in any such negotiation or as being such as might be tendered to the proprietors of any such lands or mines, or of any interest therein, or to the agent of such proprietors, or as being necessary or proper for the due working of the said mines or of any part thereof. 2. Was any conversation ever had between yourself and the said Amor DeCosmos and G. A. Walkem, or either of them, and whom by name, or any agent of them, or either of them, or between them or either of them, or any agent or professed agent of them, or either of them, and any other person or persons in your presence touching any such land or mine as is mentioned in the preceding interrogatory, or touching the produce of any such land .or mine, or any interest in such land, mine, or produce respectively, or touching the title thereto, or to any part thereof? If yea, state the time and place at which every such conversation was had, and the witnesses if any, thereof, and between whom every such conversation was held, and the full purport and effect thereof, to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, and belief. 3. Have you received or seen any letters written or received by the said Amo1' DeCosmos and G. A. Walkem, or either of them, and whom by name, touching any of the matters referred to in either of the foregoing interrogatories, and in particular touching such land or minerals, or the produce thereof, or the title thereto? Ifyea, set forth the names of the respective writers of every such letter, and the names of the several persons to whom the same letters were respectively addressed, and in whose custody, possession, or power the same respectively last were. Answer the above to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and. belief. 4. Do you know of any act, deed, matter or thing, done or neglected or proposed to be done or neglected by any member of the Provincial Government, or by the said Amor DeCosmos at any time, in anywise relating to land or to iron mines in Texada Island, British Columbia, aforesaid, or to any interest therein, or in the produce thereof, or relating to the title thereto? If yea, state the same to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief, Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 Answers. St. Andrews, New Brunswick, August 25th, 1874. Sir,—Your letter and the enclosed enquiries from the Texada Royal Commission, unfortunately came during my absence and was mislaid; as I have already telegraphed to you, I know nothing whatever of this matter and now return the questions with my answers in the margin to that effect. Yours faithfully, To C. E. Pooley, Esq. ' (Signed) Charles Tupper. Ansioer to 1st,—No. I never heard of this matter before. I never had any communication with either Mr. DeCosmos or Mr. Walkem, directly or indirectly, respecting Texada Island or any mine. Ansioer to 2nd,—I never had any conversation with anyone on this subject. Ansioer to 3rd,—I have never received or written a line upon this matter. Answer to 4th,—I know nothing relating to these interrogatories whatever. No. 3. Interrogatories and Answers—Sir John A. Macdonald. Memorandum. On the 20th February, 1874, in the House of Assembly in Victoria, B. O, Mr. Robson, M.P.P., moved a Resolution, which was ultimately unsuccessful. But, immediately, thereafter, on the motion of Mr. G. A. Walkem (Attorney-General and Premier), on behalf of the Government, a Resolution of a somewhat similar character, was carried on a division. The particulars of the various motions and amendments, and the Resolution actually carried will appear from a copy of the "Votes and Proceedings " annexed hereto. On the 13th March, 1874, in conformity with such last mentioned Resolution a Commission was issued under the Public Seal of the Province, appointing the three Judges of the Supreme Court here to inquire and report as to the truth of the allegation " that prominent members of the late and present Government were in a "ring to acquire possession of Texada Island in a manner prejudicial to the interests "of the public." The expression "prominent members of the late and present Government" is intended to designate Amor DeCosmos, M.P. (formerly President of the Council and Premier of the Province of British Columbia), and the said George A. Walkem, and Robert Beaven, M.P.P., Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works in this Province. A copy of the said Commission, as contained in the Government Gazette of the 21st March last, is also annexed hereto. Interrogatories. 1. Did AmorDeCosmas, M.P., or George A. Walkem (Attorney-General in the Province of British Columbia), or either of them, and which by name, negotiate, or offer, or attempt to enter upon any treaty with you, or with any other person, and if so whom by name, concerning any sale, or disposition, or working of any lands, 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. or iron mines, or minerals situated in Texada Island, or of the produce of any such lands, mines, or minerals in Texada Island aforesaid? If yea, state the nature of such negotiation or treaty, or offered or proposed negotiation or treaty, and the names of the persons, if any, mentioned by the said Amor DeCosmos and George A; Walkem, or either of them, as being interested therein, and the terms mentioned or suggested as being acceptable, or probably acceptable, or reasonable. And, in particular, state the sum of money, if any, which was mentioned, or in any manner indicated as being a proper or fair price for such lands, or mines, or other property mentioned in any such negotiation, or as being such as might be tendered to the proprietors of any such lands or mines, or of any interest therein, or to the agent of such proprietors,-or as being necessary or proper for the due working of the said mines, or of any part thereof. 2. Was any conversation ever had between yourself and the said Amor De Cosmos and George A. Walkem, or either of them, and whom by name,, or any agent of them, or either of them ; or between them, or either of them, or any agent or professed agent of theirs, or his, and any other person or persons in your presence, touching any such mine or lands as is mentioned in the foregoing interrogatory, or touching the produce of any such mine or lands, or touching any interest in any such mine, lands, or produce, or touching the title thereto ? If yea, state the time and place at which every such conversation was held, and the witnesses, if any, thereof, and between whom every such conversation was held, and the full purport and effect thereof, to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief. 8. Have you received or seen any letter or letters written or received by the said Amor DeCosmos or George A. Walkem, or either of them, and whom by name, touching any of the matters referred to in either of the foregoing interrogatories, and in particular touching any such lands or minerals, or the produce thereof, or the title thereto ? If yea, set forth the names of the respective writers of every such letter, and the names of the persons to whom the same letters were respectively addressed, and in whose possession, custody, or power the same was last. Answer the above to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief. 4. Do you know of any act, deed, matter or thing done, or neglected, or proposed to be done or neglected, by any member of the Provincial Government of British Columbia, or by the said Amor DeCosmos at any time, in anywise relating to land, or to iron mines in Texada Island, British Columbia, aforesaid, or to any interest therein, or in the produce thereof, or relating to the title thereto ? If yea, state the same to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information and belief. Answers. . Ottawa, May 28tlij 1874. Sir,—I enclose my answers to the interrogatories sent me by you. They are written on the margin of the paper enclosed me. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, (Signed) John A. Macdonald. C. E. Pooley, Esq., Secretary, Victoria. Answer to 1st,—Neither Mr. DeCosmos nor Mr. Walkem negotiated, or offered to negotiate, or attempted to enter into any treaty with me or, to my knowledge, with any other person, concerning any sale or disposition or working of any lands or iron mines or minerals, situated on Texada Island, or of the produce of any such lands, mines, or minerals, on Texada Island, 10 Royal Commission—lexada Island. 1874 Answer to 2nd,—I never had any conversation with either of the gentlemen named, or with any agent or professed agent of them or either of them, on the matters referred to in these interrogatories, nor was I ever present at any conversation with any persons at any time on such matters. Answer to Zrd,—I have never received or seen any letter or letters written by Mr. DeCosmos or Mi".Walkem, or by any one else, on the matters referred to in these interrogatories. Ansioer to 4th,—I do not know of any act, deed, matter, or thing done or neglected, or proposed to be done or neglected, by any member of the Provincial Government of British Columbia, or by Mr. DeCosmos at any time, in anywise relating to land or to iron mines on Texada Island, British Columbia, or to any interest therein or in the produce thereof, or relating to the title thereto. No. 4. Answers to Interrogatories—Mr. Sproat. London, 4 Lime Street Square, E. O, 10th June, 1874. Sir,—I have received this morning your letter of the 9th of May last, with a Memorandum and Interrogatories in the matter of the Texada Island Royal Commission, and I reply as follows:— My answer to the first interrogatory is, that neither Amor DeCosmors nor G. A. Walkem, nor any other person, male or female, living or now dead, ever did negotiate or offer, or attemrjt to enter upon any treaty with me, or' with any other person, so far as I know, concerning any sale or disposition, or working of any lands or iron mines or minerals, situate in Texada Island, in British Columbia, or of his produce of any such lands, mines or minerals in Texada Island, aforesaid. My answer to the second interrogatory is, so far as the said G. A. Walkem is concerned, that I never saw this gentleman in my life, nor had conversation or correspondence with him, or any agent or professed agent of his, with the exception of a short note enclosing a list of law books required by the Government, and expressing las opinion, that my official handbook for emigrants was the best thing of the sort that ever was written. Neither he, nor any agent, nor professed agent of his, ever wrote to me, or spoke, or in any manner communicated with me, or with any other person or persons in my presence, or that I know of, touching any such mines or lands as are mentioned in the first interrogatory, or touching the produce of any such mines or lands, or touching any interest in any such mines, lands or produce, or touching the title thereto. My further answer to the second interrogatory is, so far as the said Amor DeCosmos is concerned, that, having seen notices in the Victoria newspapers of the discovery of iron ore on Texada Island, and having hung up these notices in this office for the information of visitors, I asked the said A. DeCosmos, after he came here if it was a real or a bogus discovery, and whether there was a harbour at the place, and whether he could give me any information beyond that contained in the public newspapers, so that 1 might use. such information in the new edition of the official hand-book. This enquiry was made by me in my office here, but whether before witnesses or not I cannot remember. The said A. DeCosmos replied that there was 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 11 no mistake about the mine, he believed a harbour could be made available, the ore, he said, was good, it would be a fine thing for the Province to have a good iron mine, if it could be worked; I was disappointed at the small amount of useful information which he could give about this seemingly important discovery, and endeavoured on another occasion to get something more out of him, but without success. This other occasion was at the Langham Hotel, on the evening of the day before the said A. DeCosmos left London, and no witnesses were present. I cannot remember exactly what passed on this occasion, the conversation was generally as to the possibility of working an iron mine in British Columbia where wages were so high. I remember mentioning the failure of similar attempts in Oregon, and more particularly in New- South AYales, in which latter Colony the iron lay close to coal and limestone, and wages were lower than in British Columbia. We did not talk long on the subject, as it was difficult to get the said A. DeCosmos to speak or write much about anything except the Graving Dock, and the best way of getting money from the Imperial Government; he said nothing to me about any iron company, or to show that he was interested as an owner or agent of any mine in Texada Island or elsewhere. He seemed to speak of the matter as if he had no personal interest in it, except as an ordinary member of the public. I further remember asking him to tell the owners of coal or iron or other mineral lands or property in British Columbia that, so far as I knew, the best way to sell such properties here, was to employ a single agent, with ample written powers and elaborate sketches, plans, reports, &c, descriptive of the property, making vague enquiries or hawking about for offers, geuerally resulted in damaging the prospects of sale; I stated this for the purpose of giving information to property owners in this Province, which experience had shown me was needed, and not entirely without the hope on my part, that it might lead to some legitimate business for myself. I did not, however, ask Mr. DeCosmos to recommend me, nor did he say he would, but ended the conversation in the usual manner, by asking where he could see another Graving Dock. I said, as he was going to Scotland, to see the Leith and Greenock docks, and as the next day was Sunday, we would go from London to York, and attend divine service in the Minster there, and afterwards go on to Newcastle, where, on Monday morning we would inspect the extensive dock of Palmer & Co. This was done, and I mention it, because we found large blast furnaces at Palmer & Co's place, which caused between us, the third, and last conversation about iron ore, in British Columbia. The conversation was of the same general character as the former conversations. We both thought it would be a fine thing to see such furnaces in British Columbia. To the best of my knowledge, remembrance and belief, the foregoing is the full general purport and effect of every conversation between me and the said A. DeCosmos, touching any such mine or lands as are mentioned in the first interrogatory, or touching the produce of any such mine or lands, or touching any interest in any such mine, lands or produce, or touching the title thereto; and I say further, that no agent or professed agent of the said A. DeCosmos ever wrote to me, or spoke, or communicated with me touching the above matters. My answer to the third interrogatory is, that I have not received nor seen any letter or letters written or received by the said A. DeCosmos and G. A. Walkem, or either of them, touching any of the matters referred to in the foregoing interrogatories, and in particular touching any such lands or minerals, or the produce thereof, or the title thereto. My answer to the.fourth interrogatory is simply no. I beg leave to add, that on the 13th March, 1874, when I first saw with astonishment, my name figuring in the newspapers, in connection with this matter. I wrote and sent the following letter to the Editor of the Colonist; but I do not know if it reached that gentleman, as I have not seen it published in that newspaper : 12 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 (Copy.) (2b the Editor of the Colonist.) Dear Sir : It is not often that I havo to complain of the unauthorized use of my name by friends in British Columbia, but you will perhaps kindly permit mo to stato that you have inadvertently, or on wrong information, published what is not tho case, in stating that some "stock" connected with an "Island,"and originating in a "grab," has been placed in my hands for sale. I am sorry to say that I have not been employed at any time by any person or association in British Columbia to sell anything for them in this placo, but I hope that your notice of me will lead to some paying business. There is, of course, no reason why I should refuse to undertako any agency whatever, likely to benefit British Columbia. I only now mention tho above matter because the paragraph in which my name is mentioned, appears to refer to politics, which you know I eschew as a toilsome and barren pursuit. Very faithfully yours, (Signed) Gilbert Malcolm Sproat. London, 4 Lime Street Square, March 13th, 1874. In conclusion, as you invite me to elucidate, as far as possible, the objects mentioned in the Commission, I crave reference to the enclosed clipping from the Colonist of the report of the evidence of Mr. D. W. Higgins, 4th May last— particularly the statements that the Vancouver Coal Company "had written to " Mr. Bate, their manager at Nanaimo, asking about the Texada mine, which, they "said, Sproat was offering for sale." In reply to this, I say that the Vancouver Coal Company must have written somewhat loosely, if they ever wrote any such thing, for I never brought the subject before the-company; nor, as already explained, was I ever employed to sell any mine whatsoever, whether coal or iron, in' "British Columbia.' The statements that "Mr. Sproat, the Provincial Agent, had offered the "Texada mine in London;" that "Sproat is offering Texada Island for sale," and all statements to that effect, are entirely without foundation. But, on reading Mr. Higgins' evidence, with the view of finding an explanation (as I am bound, if possible, to do) consistent with an honest desire on his part, as a public journalist, to examino transactions which he believed to be prejudicial to the public interest, I am reminded of a fact which may have led to the mention of my name by the Vancouver Coal Company in connection with the Texada mine, and also to tho assumption of some connection on the part of Mr. DeCosmos with it—the latter gentleman happening to be in this country, on the .Graving Dock business,/at about the same time. I stick up in this office on a large green board clippings from the newspapers, and placards, calling attention to the productions of the country. When I heard of Texada I got the words "Iron ore " printed in letters an inch long, and stuck them up among the others on the board. I talked to everybody about the iron mine, and particularly I remember that I. talked about it with Mr. Irwin, Director of an iron mining company in Antrim in Ireland, who is also a director in the Vancouver Coal Company. The want of coal in Ireland has hitherto prevented the working of Irish iron mines; but Mr. Irwin's company had found the coal and iron together. In talking of Texada, he said it would probably be found better to take the iron to the coal than the coal to the iron, and showed generally the interest in the matter proper to the Director of a Coal Company in the Island, and which it is my official duty to excite in the mind of every one who in time present or to come might help in developing the industries of the Province. I daresay I talked half a dozen times with Mr. Lwin on this subject, and I may have said, though I do not remember doing so, that Mr. DeCosmos was coming and might be able to give some information on points interesting to an iron and 88 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 13 coal man like Mi-. Lwin. As a matter of fact, however, I believe I was unable to bring them together. I have talked to many others in the same way as I talked to Mr. Irwin, both before Mr. DeCosmos' arrival, during his stay here, and after his departure. I am paid to talk and I do talk. Now it occurs to me, having regard to the general principles affecting the growth of myths and mares'-nests, that Mr. Irwin may have mentioned the purport of these conversations with me to some one connected with the Vancouver Company, and that a letter may have been written by the Company to Mr. Bate at Nanaimo, asking broadly for what they wanted to know about the iron mine, and unintentionally stating loosely or generally what they supposed to be true from hearsay as to merely collateral details. The "black crow" in London became two "black crows" at Nanaimo, and three "black crows" at Victoria. The Vancouver Coal Company is a large concern, and its correspondence carries weight; its manager at Nanaimo occupies an important position, and may fairly be in close relations with the excellent member for that place ; and thus a lynx-eyed journalist at Victoria might honestly conclude that he had-received information of a character to justify him in examining into transactions which really never took place on this side of the water, but which he believed had .taken place, and were of a nature prejudicial to the public interest. I will give you any further information which the Commission may desire ; I return all the documents you sent me. Yours faithfully, (Signed) Gilbert Malcolm Sproat. Enclosure. Extract from British Colonist. . Monday, May 4th, 1874. D. W. Higgins sworn and examined by Mr. Bobson.—Will you state the circumstances that led you to publish the article of the 9th of February that appeared in tho Colonist? Witness—About the latter end of August, 1873, I met Capt. Devereux at the corner of Yates and Blanchard streets; I said, " I have not seen you since your return from Burrard Inlet." " Wo," he replied, " The last trip I made in the steamer was to the iron mine;" I said, "I never heard of any iron mine." Ho said, "Moody.& Company have pre-empted a whole Island." Feeling interested I asked other questions ; the substance of his replies was that Moody, Dalby, DeCosmos, Walkem, and others had gono to Texada Island; that Moody and DeCosmos had gone ashore there; on their return he overheard a conversation that DeCosmos was going to sell the mine in London; we both agreed that it was a dirty business; Capt. Devereux added that they (the party) seemed to wish to keep the matter from him; he said Walkem and DeCosmos had gone on shore and taken guns and fishing rods as if to fish or get game; but this,'lie added, was only a blind; other parties went and took mining tools with them; Devereux did not go ashore, having to attend to tho steamer; on the return of the steamer to Burrard Inlet their was a great rush for British subjects to allow their names to be used as pre-emptors; Chambers said he was asked for the use of his name but refused it, as it would interfere with another pre-emption; witness told him DeCosmos' paper had suppressed all news about members of the Government going to Texada. " Yes," rejjlied Devereux, "they want to throw people of the" track." Had no further communication about Texada until the 3rd or 4th of February last, when I received a letter stating that Mr. Sproat, the Provincial Agent, had offered the Texada Mine in London. The writer advised him (Higgins) to try and find out who placed it in Sproat's hands; the letter was from Mr. Bate of Nanaimo; witness had not that letter, having destroyed it some time since; the day after receiving the letter witness met Mr. Morton and said to him, "Sproat is offering Texada Island for sale; I have no doubt DeCosmos put it into his hands, and that that was the real object of his going to London and not for the Dry Dock matters." Morton replied, " That agrees with what Dalby told me three or four 14 Royal Commission—Texada Island, months since." Morton then told witness what he (Morton) has already testified to; Morton showed me pencil tracings of a map, and witness' suspicions being aroused ho took a copy of the names on the tracings; two days after the statement of tho "Grab" appeared in the Colonist. The Chief Justice—What was the date of the paper in which the article appeared ? Witness—I think it was the 9th of February—it was the day following the Bebol- lion. (A laugh). Judge Gray—The what ? Witness—The Rebellion. (Laughter). The Attorney-General—The night that a parcel of rowdies— ; Witness—The night there was a little difficulty at the House—a little unpleasantness —commonly called " Our Little Bebellion." (Laughter). On the morning following tho Rebellion, while in conversation with Dr. Tolmie and others, at the corner of Douglas and Pandora streets, Dalby came up and said, good naturedly, "You did not tell tho truth in your paper; you said §120,000 was the price of the mine; it should have read $150,000 tho mine was to he sold for." Witness thought'this a strange admission, but said, "the error can be easily rectified."- Dalby then said " it is not true that Sproat is offering the stock in London, for none has been issued." Witness said to Dalby, " I do know Sproat has offered the iron mine for sale in London," and Dalby replied, " that is a different matter." After this I wrote to Mr. Bate; he replied his people in London (that is the Vancouver Coal Company) wrote to him asking about the Texada mino, which they said Sproat was offering for sale. I have not that letter ; it is destroyed ; after this Mr. G. Norris, now of Nanaimo, then in my employ, told me that, when walking with Dalby he was told by him that DeCosmos was to sell the mine for $150,000 and would get five per cent, commission on the sale. By referring to files in my possession I find that on July 26th, 1873, appeared in the Standard a notice that DeCosmos, in three or four days, would go to the Mainland on "private business ;" on tho 30th of July (four days afterwards) Mr. DeCosmos, Mr. Walkem, Mr. Hughes, Mr. Dalby and several others, are mentioned in the same paper as having gone to Burrard Inlet tho evening previous ; on the 7th of August they are reported in the same paper as having returned the evening previous, after a trip to Jarvis' Inlet. No reference was mado to the party having visited Texada. Heard that Dalby chartered the steamer " Isabel" at a cost of $150 or $250, and went to Now Westminster an'd actually registered tho claims ahead of Dupont's party, who were at work on the Island; witness met Dupont who said ho had just been over to the Land Office, where he tried to convince Beaven that he had been guilty of great injustice in allowing the claims to he registered by parties who had never been on the Island; subsequently Dupont told witness he had given up the claims because there was no use fighting against the whole Government. To Mr. Walkem—Eeceived a letter from Mr. Sproat stating that ho had not placed any Texada stock on the London Market. No. 5 Mr. G. M. Sproat to the Secretary Royal Commission. London, 4 Lime Street Square, July 2nd, 1874. Sir,—With reference to my letter to you of the 10th June, I have to add that, two days ago, having "been at the office of the Vancouver Coal Mining and Land Company (familiarly known in the province as the "Nanaimo Co."), the Secretary took occasion to apologise to me for their having written to the province in a way which, through inadvertence or indiscretion of* their Colonial Manager, had caused my name to be mentioned in connection with inquiries now being made by a Royal Commission. I replied that they need not apologise to me, for I regarded the matter as of so 88 Vic. ' Royal Commission—Texada Island. 15 little importance that I had not thought fit to go to their office to see them on the subject. The truth of the matter is just as I supposed, and as I communicated to you in my letter of the 10th June. I am, &c, . . ^ (Signed) Gilbert Malcolm Sproat. No. 6. The Deputy Provincial Secretary to the Secretary of the Royal Commission. Provincial Secretary's Office, 14th August, 1874. Sir,—I have the honor to acquaint you that Mr. DeCosmos has requested that the Royal Commission may be informed that if they require his evidence, the necessary interrogations should be sent to Ottawa at once, as he does not expect to return to the Province till next year. , . I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, (Signed) Charles Good, Deputy Provincial Secretary. Telegram. Halifax, Nova Scotia, August 11, 1874. rlo Hon. John Ash:— Tell the Royal Commission if they want my evidence, to send their interrogations to Ottawa at once, as I do not expect to return till next year. Send answer here. (Signed)- A. DeCosmos. Telegram. Halifax, Nova Scotia, August 17,1874. To Charles E. Pooley, Secretary of Royal Commission:— Your letter of "30th July received to-day. Forward full interrogatories to the Commission at Ottawa at once. See my telegram to the Provincial Secretary on August 11th. Answer soon by telegraph. (Signed) _ A. DeCosmos. No. 7. Interrogatories sent to Mr. DeCosmos, 4th September, 1874. 1. Did you or George A. Walkem (Attorney-General of the Province of British Columbia), or either of you, and which by name, negotiate, or offer, or attempt to 10 ■ Royal Commission—-Texada Island. 1874 enter upon any treaty with Sir John A. Macdonald, or with any other person, and if so whom by name, concerning any sale, or disposition, or working of any lands, or iron mines, or minerals situated in Texada Island, or of the produce of any such lands, mines, or minerals in Texada Island aforesaid ? If yea, state the nature of such negotiation or treaty, or offered or proposed negotiation or treaty, and the names of the persons, if any, mentioned by you, the said Amor DeCosmos and George A. Walkem, or either of you, as being interested therein, and the terms mentioned or suggested as being acceptable or reasonable ; and, in particular, state the sum of monoy, if any, which was mentioned or in any manner indicated as being a proper or fair price for such lands or mines, or other property mentioned in any such negotiation, or as being such as might be tendered to the proprietors of any such lands or mines, or of any interest therein, or to the agent of such proprietors, or as being necessary or proper for the due working of the said mines, or of any part thereof. 2. Was any conversation ever had between yourself, the said Sir John A. Macdonald, and George A. Walkem, or either of them, and whom by name, or any agent of them or either of them, or between them or either of them, or any agent or professed agent of theirs or his, and any other person or persons in your presence, touching any such mine or lands as is mentioned in the foregoing interrogatory, or touching the produce of any such mine or lands, or touching any interest in any such mine, lands, or produce, or touching the title thereto ? If yea, state the time and place at which every such conversation was held, and the witnesses, if any, thereof, and between whom every such conversation was held, and the full purport and effect thereof, to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief. 3. Have you received or seen any letter or letters, written or received by you, the said Amor DeCosmos or George A. Walkem, or either of you, and whom by name, touching any of the matters referred to in either of the .foregoing interrogatories, and in particular touching any such lands or minerals, or the produce thereof, or the title thereto ? If yea, set forth the names of the respective writers of every such letter, and the names of the persons to whom the same letters were respectively addressed, and in whose possession, custody, or power, the same was last. Answer the above to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief. 4. Do you know of any act, deed, matter or thing done or neglected, or proposed to be done or neglected, by yourself or any member of the Provincial Government of British Columbia at any time, in anywise relating to the making, pre-empting, securing, confirming, or in anywise relating to, the title to the said lands, or any or either, or part, or any or either thereof, or prevent others from preempting ? If yea, state the same, and all matters and thiugs having reference thereto,' to the best of your knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief. 5. Had you, at any time, or have you now, any personal interest, direct or indirect, in the mineral deposit on Texada Island, or were you engaged or concerned at any time with any other person or persons, parties or firms, in procuring, or attempting to procure, a grant, or the pre-emption, or leasing, or licencing thereof, from the Crown to any such person, firms or parties, from which you were to derive any personal advantage, profit, or gain? If yea, state what such interest was; if indirect, state how it was created or derived, or to be created or derived, and who were the persons, firm, or parties with whom you were so concerned, or from whom you expected to derive such advantage, profit, or gain. 6. In your capacity as a member of the Government, or as a member of the Legislature, did you use any influence, give any promise, or do any act with reference to the said mineral deposits, from which you were, in your individual capacity, to derive any benefit, or for which you received any promise or assurance, either openly or tacitly, of such benefit ? 38 Vic, Royal Commission—Texada Island. IT 7. Was there any understanding, expressed or implied, on your part or with your assent or concurrence, with Messieurs Moody, Dietz & Nelson, either as a firm or with the individual members thereof, or with Mr. Walkem or Mr. Beaven, or any member of your# Government, touching or concerning the said mineral deposits in any way, according to which your influence as a member of the Government was to be used to benefit yourself personally, or the said firm, or the said members of your Government, or any of them ? 8. Was there any understanding of any kind, with any person, of a corrupt nature or character, touching the said mineral deposits, or from which yon could expect or hope to derive any personal benefit ? 9. Read the testimony of Capt. John Devereux, of the " Cariboo-Fly," as taken on oath before the Royal Commissioners, and sent herewith. Did the observations therein referred to as having been made by you, take place; or have you any observations or explanations to make touching the said testimony ? 10. Did you accept any interest in Hope silver mines; and if yes, what was the consideration ? 111. Read Moody's evidence, herewith sent, and state if he has correctly related conversations with you touching value, etc., of mine; and if not, state what did take place. 12. Did you, in conversation with Mr. Tye and Mr. Robertson, speak of the Texada mine as if you were interested personally in it ? 13. Did you, at any time, and if yes, when, express a desire to Moody or to Dalby to be entrusted with the sale of said mine ? 14. What value did they, or either of them, place upon the mine ? 15. What transpired between you and Sproat relative to said mine ? 16. Has Dr. Tupper spoken to you concerning interrogatories sent to him, and has he assigned any reason for not answering them ? No. 8. Mr. John Robson to the Secretary of the Royal Commission. Victoria, August 19, 1874. Sir,—I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 18th instant, acquainting me that the Royal Commissioners propose sending interrogatories to Mr. DeCosmos, at Ottawa; and that they will sit to-morrow for the purpose of giving me an opportunity of suggesting the form the interrogatories should take. In reply I have to say, with every respect to the Royal Commissioners, that I entirely disapprove of such a mode of examining the chief witness in the case. I need not point out to the Honourable the Commissioners the utter futility of adopting such a course in this instance,'for they freely admitted it upon the occasion of the last sitting. , I am the more disinclined to proceed in this way with the present witness, from a conviction that he is purposely absenting himself. I have, &c, (Signed) Jno. Robson. 18 Royal Commission— Texada Island 1874 No. 9. Mr. John Robson to the Secretary of the Royal Commission. Victoria, August 26,1874. Sir,—I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your letter of yesterday, which, however, came too late to hand to render compliance with the request therein conveyed possible. Adverting to the general subject, I understood the arrangement to be that the interrogatories prepared by the Royal Commissioners from their notes, would bo handed to me to look over, and make any suggestions that might occur to me. It would now appear that this arrangement has not been carried out; not, I beg to assure the Royal Commissioners, that I think the matter at all important, as I regard the sending of these interrogatories to Mr. DeCosmos, under the circumstances, as no better than a farce. I have. &c, (Signed) Jno. Robson. No. 10. Proceedings before Royal Commission, and the Evidence of the various Witnesses. Tuesday, March 24th, 1874.—1st Day. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. II. Gray. C. E. Pooley appointed Secretary to Commissioners. Secretary read Commission, at 12 m., in the Supreme Court House. Hon. G. A. Walkem appeared as a Member of the Government. A. Bocke llobertson, Esq., on behalf of Messrs. Moody, Dietz, and Nelson. Mi\ Robson asked what course would be pursued in regard to evidence, and if the ordinary rules of evidence would be observed. Commissioners—We shall examine and cross-examine any witnesses as we may think best to elicit the truth. Commission adjourned to Thursday, 26th March, at 12 m. Wednesday, 25th March.—At the request of Mr. Robson, issued subpeenas for the attendance of M'essrs. S. P. Moody, 11. Nelson, and W. Dalby before the Commission on Thursday, the 26th instant, at 12 m. ; also Mr. Beaven for same time, with subpoena duces tecum. 4 witnesses. Thursday, 26th March.—At request of Dr. Ash, issued subpoena for the attendance of Mr. John Bobson before the Commission, at 12 m. this day. 88 Vic, Royal Commission—Texada Island. 19 Thursday, 26th March, 1874."—2nd Day. Commissioners present—Ilonorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. The Secretary informed the Commissioners that he had subpoenaed Messrs. S. P. Moody, Hugh Nelson, William Dalby, and had served the Hon. Mr. Beaven with a subpoena duces tecum, at the request of Mr. Bobson ; and that he had subpoenaed • Mr. Bobson at the request of Dr. Ash. Present—Mr. Mason (for the Attorney-General), Mr. Johnson (for Messrs.. Moody, Dietz, and Nelson), Mr. Robson, Hon. Dr. Ash, Hon. Mr. Armstrong, Hon. Mr. Beaven. Mr. Bobson, at the request of the Commissioners, undertook to examine the witnesses. Mr. Bobson stated that he had been " credibly informed that certain portions " of Texada Island.had been taken up in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the "public," and that "certain members of the Government were improperly con- " nected with this transaction." Ejeioell Prescott Moody called and sworn,— I have not pre-empted any land on Texada Island. I know some people who have. I do not know of any pre-emption on Texada Island in which any prominent member of the late or present Government is in any way interested. I was not the first discoverer of valuable ore on Texada Island. I was not the first person who made known the discovery of valuable ore on Texada Island to the pre-emptors. Mr. Harry Trim, the pre-emptor, was the first person who informed me. He was not in my employ at that time. He has been in our employ since. He first came into our employ last summer, not before. He was not in our employ at the time he made that pre-emption, at least I think not. He is not in our employ now> He was in our employ, exploring. By our employ I mean the employ of Moody, Dietz, and Nelson. He was in the employ of Moody, Dietz, and Nelson, and paid by the firm. He was simply exploring for what he could find—minerals or timber oh the island and Jarvis Inlet. Mr. Trim proposed that I should take an interest. I considered that the firm would.be interested if a company were formed to work the iron. I am not a British subject, and could not pre-empt. I did not take legal advice on this point. I was promised an interest, in the company when formed, by those parties who have pre-empted it. The parties who pre-empted did so of their own free will. I did act in connection with parties who did pre-empt, viz. with J. C. Hughes, Harry Trim, Edward Trim, B. Stringer. It was at my suggestion that Coote M. Chambers pre-empted. It was not at my suggestion that T. J. Mills Bowden preempted. I do not know at whose instance he pre-empted. I don't know whether I suggested to Mr. Robertson to pre-empt. I do not know how many pre-emptions there are on Texada Island. I have no list. J. C. Brown did not pre-empt at my suggestion. He pre-empted, I think, from suggestions from J. C. Hughes. J. 0. Hughes is our office man. I presume I suggested to W. Dalby to pre-empt. Benja-. min H. Wilson pre-empted at my suggestion. J. Moffatt pre-empted at my suggestion. H. W. Hughes did not pre-empt at my suggestion. I don't know at whose suggestion he pre-empted. J. A. Cottrill pre-empted at my suggestion. Thomas Carvell pre-empted at my suggestion. I don[t know whether Charles G. Major pre-empted at my suggestion or not. I don't remember ever having asked Mr. Major to allow his name to be used in pre-empting Texada Island. I don't know of any one else asking'him. I don't know H. S. Smith. I don't know P. Marshall. I don't know J. Wilson. A. Calder did not pre-empt at my suggestion. I presume at the suggestion of his son-in-law, C. M. Chambers. I don't think Ebenezer Brown pre-empted at my suggestion. I do not know at whose .suggestion he pre-empted there. The company I spoke of as having formed first, the one suggested by Trim, 20 ' Moyai Commission—Texada Island. 1874 did not include all the names you have mentioned. B. Springer is in our employ. Mr. Springer's pre-emption is not near the iron lead. C. M. Chambers was in our employ. He was book-keeper. I suggested to Chambers to pre-empt the land, as it might become very valuable on account of the proximity of the iron ore. I thought the land would become valuable if the iron ore turned out well. I suggested to Mi*. Dalby to pre-empt because the land, in my opinion, would ultimately be valuable. Mr. Dalby was one of the men I proposed to form part of the company. B. H.Wilson was in our employ at tho time. I don't know why J. C. Hughes induced others to pre-empt. He was to be one of the members of tho company. I can't say positively that I asked J. C. Hughes to get others to pre-empt; I presume I did. I don't know at whose suggestion Edward Trim pre-empted. lie was not in our employ at the time. J. A. Cottrill was in our employ at the time. J. Carvell was in our employ at the time. Trim told myself and Hughes, at Moody, Dietz, and Nelson's, Burrard Inlet, of his discovery on Texada Island; it was there that the steps for organization took place. I think this occurred some time in 1873, the last of July or first of August. No steps have since been taken to form a company. I don't recollect that any one else was present at the conversation. Harry Trim and J. C. Hughes pre-empted right oft, also Cottrill, and, I think, Moftatt, Ned Trim and H. Hughes—these were the first pre-emptors. There were two sets of applications for pre-emptions; these pre-emptions took place about last of July or first August. I don't think the second lot of pre-emptions was more than ten days or a month after the first lot. These first parties went through the usual course of pre-emption. I don't know whether the six parties named as the first pre-emptors went to the island or not to stake oft" their claims. If these parties had gone in a steamboat, I should have known it. I think a part of them went in a sloop. J. C. Hughes went in the steamer " Cariboo "—that is our steamer—to Texada Island. I don't know if they staked their 'claims out. I was not there. Hughes and Harry Trim went, up in the " Cariboo-Fly." I think the steamer left Burrard Inlet about 1st August. She went from Burrard Inlet to Jarvis Inlet, and landed some lumbermen, and thence to Texada Island to examine the iron. I went up on the steamer with them this time. I believe both Hughes and Trim had pre-empted before that time. If allowed, I will make a statement from the beginning to the end; I now know what you want. Harry Trim came down to our place at Burrard Inlet sometime last July. He showed Hughes and myself some iron ore that he had got on Texada Island. Trim thought it a valuable iron lead, and proposed to pre-empt. The two Hughes, two Trims, Cottrill and Moftatt, went over the same day or a day or two afterwards to New Westminster, to give notice to pre-empt, and I presume went through the usual form. It was understood between these parties and myself, that as -soon as proper titles could be procured, a company should be formed. Harry Trim then went to the Island, I presume to put his notices up. When Trim gave me the information, it was somewhere from the 1st to the middle of July, as near as I can recollect. After Harry Trim returned, the steamer went up to Jarvis Inlet and then to Texada Island, and returned. Hughes, Nelson, Harry Trim, Adam Watson and myself went up in the steamer. This was about the middle of July. We landed, stopped a short time, examined the island, and then came home again. We stopped at the island about a couple of hours. We made a hole in the iron- rock, and put a blast of giant powder in. We did not examine for the posts of tho pre-emptions. We blasted oft" some rock. This was the first trip. I staked out nothing myself. We did not take any possession of land, we merely took some pieces of ore, and came home again. I don't know whether Trim was authorized to act for any one in staking off claims. I believe he was. Before Mr. Moody's evidence was finished, Commission adjourned to 11:30 a. m. to-morrow. 38 Vic. Royal Commission— Texada Island. 21 Friday, 29th March, 1874.—3rd Day. Commission met at 11.30. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, II. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. The Secretary read letter and certificate from Dr. Helmcken stating that Mr. Moody was very unwell and unable to attend to any business. Present—Mr. Robertson, Q.C. (for Moody, Dietz, and Nelson), Mr. Mason (for Attorney-General), Mr. Robson, Hon. Dr. Ash, Hon. Mr. Armstrong. v On account of Mr. Moody's illness, Commission adjourned to Monday, the 30th instant, at 11.30 a.m., to give Mr. Moody time to attend. Monday, 30tii March, 1874.—4th Day. Commission met at 11.30. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. II. Gray. Present—Wr.Robertson, Q.C. (for Moody, Dietz and Nelson), Mr. Robson, Mr. Mason (for Attorney-General). The examination of Mr. S. P. Moody was continued,— I was unwell the day I was here giving evidence. I did not recollect. I was very incorrect in my evidence in consequence. With leave of the Commissioners, I will make an entirely new statement. Last May, Harry Trim came to Burrard Inlet with iron ore, which.he showed to Mr. Hughes and myself, and expressed a wish to take some steps to secure it, and wished me to Adsit the island with some of my friends as soon as convenient. He then returned to his place on the island; he lived on the island at that time. On the 10th June I came to Victoria on the steamer " Cariboo," to meet Mr. Nelson.. We left here on the 11th, and went to Burrard Inlet, and stayed there one or two days, and then Mr. Watson, Mr. Nelson, and myself went to the head of Texada Island to Trim's place—to the head of "Blubber Bay." We went ashore there, and examined the land for nearly half a day. We took Trim on board, and . went down opposite to the iron deposit, and Nelson, Watson, Trim and myself landed in a small boat. AVe went on to the iron ore and examined it; drilled a'hole in it and blasted out some ore. We came down to the steamer and brought some iron specimens with us. We then returned to Trim's place and stopped over night. Next day we examined another small island, called "Harward Island," about two miles from 'the north end of Texada Island. ■ From there we went to Pender Harbour, on the Mainland; we did not land. From thence we went to Burrard Inlet. Trim we landed opposite Jarvis Inlet, and he went back home to Texada Island in a small boat. Trim was instructed by us to go and get four or five tons of iron ore, and bring it to Burrard Inlet—which he did in about two weeks. The applications to pre-empt were made when we returned in the steamer to Burrard Inlet. Instructions were given to Trim, also, to put up stakes and notices. J. C. Hughes and II. Trim were pre-emptors, and others I do.not recollect. I think there were three others besides these two—that is, five in all. The application to pre-empt was made at New Westminster. Immediately after Trim brought the four or five tons of ore to the Inlet, lie returned to Texada Island to explore, and sec if he could find any more iron ore; he went back in his own boat. About the last of July or first of August, I came down to Victoria in the " Cariboo-Fly," and invited • Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem, and Dalby to go up to the Inlet, and then up the coast. I think Capt. Raymur was on board from "V ictoria to the Inlet. We stopped at the Inlet about a day, and then started up the coast with Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem, 22 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 Dalby, and Watson on board. We went from Burrard Inlet to Harry Trim's place, at the northerly end of Texada Island, and stopped half a day and examined the formation of the country, picked up a few rocks, and went aboard again. Watson is not a professional geologist; he knows a little more about it than I do. I took IT. Trim on board next day, and went to the iron deposit; the iron deposit is eight miler-i from Trim's place. We went ashore at the iron mine, and stayed there three or four hours, and examined the iron deposit, and returned to the steamer. We picked "up some specimens of iron, and took, them with us, and we returned to Trim's place and stopped all night. Next morning we started, and went to Jarvis Inlet, to a place called Thunder Bay; stopped there two hours. From thence we returned to Burrard Inlet. We arrived at Burrard Inlet some time during tho night. Next morning, Mr. Walkem visited the Hastings Mills. Messrs. DeCosmos and Dalby went across to New Westminster in the morning. About 15th of August Trim came down in his sloop from Texada Island, and reported that Richardson, the geologist, had been there to examine the island, and Trim proposed locating some more claims; and quite a number more claims were located. About that same time Mr. Dalby came up to the Inlet in the steamer "Isabel," and proposed making some more locations. Trim was there at the time Dalby arrived. A number more locations were made around in the harbour of Gillis Bay, about the middle of Texada Island; and about two miles from were we found the iron. The day after Dalby arrived, he and Hughes went to New Westminster, and made the applications to pre-empt some other claims. Trim returned to the island with notices. I engaged the "Isabel"—which was going to Nanaimo—to tow his sloop opposite to Gillis Bay; Gillis Bay faces right opposite to Com ox. He was to go right to the island to post notices on the pre-emptions it was proposed to make application for; I mean the applications then being made at New Westminster. I do not recollect the number of pre-emptions referred to. B. Springer, C. M. Chambers, J. C. Hughes, J. Moftatt, J. A. Cottrill, T. Carvell, B. H. Wilson were all in my employ, and pre-empted at my suggestion, except J. C. Hughes. Trim was not in our pay and employ at the time he. made the pre-emptions. I do not recollect what I said to induce these people to preempt. Messrs. Moody, Dietz & Nelson paid the expenses of the trips of the steamer to the island—that is, made the advances, and charged them to the iron mine. I cannot say that we paid any of the expenses for recording the pre-emptions. I don't know who paid the fees upon the pre-emptions; we might have paid them, but I cannot be sure. Anything that we advanced we charged to this account. Mr. Nelson, Mr. Dietz, and myself were to be three in any company that might be formed. By the "iron mine," I mean a company that was proposed hereafter to be formed. The company was to consist of William Dalby, J. C. Hughes, T. G. Moody, P. W.-Swett, B. H. Wilson, Harry Trim, Edward Trim, Adam Watson, H. Nelson, George Dietz, R. P. Ritlict, Joshua A. Moody, James VanBremmer, S. P. Moody—fourteen in all. Tho company was to hold the whole of the land covered by these pre-emptions. Some of the pre-emptors, who pre-empted at my suggestion, were left out, and some, not pre-emptors, are included in the list. The ground to be the property of the company, was to- be the land the iron ore was in. Three pre-emptions covered all the iron, viz., J. C. Hughes', Harry Trim's, and H. W. Hughes'. I am not positive of iron existing in any pre-emption except II. Trim's. These three persons pre-empted to get a title to form the company. Dalby pre-empted for the benefit of the company. I think B. II. Wilson and Edward Trim pre-empted on the same understanding. J. A. Cottrill, also. I don't think Mr. Caldcr's land was of any value to the company; I don't know that Mr. Caldcr's land is valuable for bringing water. I believe Moftatt's pre-emption was to go to the company. When wo found the iron ore, I showed some specimens to Mr. DeCosmos and told him that any time it was convenient to him I would take him up the coast and show him tho iron mine. I also said tho same to Mr. Walkem. I told Mr. DeCosmos I wanted to show him the iron. I did not say anything about tho iron to Mr. Walkem, 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 23 They went right up to the iron mine on the steamer. The steamer did not leave them at the Inlet and make a trip to the iron mine in the meantime. My main object in taking Mr. DeCosmos up was to show him the iron mine. I told Mr. DeCosmos that as soon as the titles were secured I proposed making a Company, and that if he wished an interest in the Company he could have one. I did not tell Mr. DeCosmos the mode in which I proposed getting a title to the laud. I did not talk with him about titles. I offered Mr. DeCosmos an interest in the Company when formed and he declined—saying labour was too dear to make an iron mine pay in this country. I made the same proposition to Mr. Walkem, and ho declined on account of the position he held in the Government. The names of Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem and Beaven were not put up on the Island as pre-emptors to my knowledge. I was told by one party they were up there. I do not recollect being told by Mr. Spratt that those names were up. I was walking with Mr. Robson up Pandora Street. Mr. Robson stated that he had heard from good authority that the names of Messrs. Walkem, Beaven and DeCosmos were up on Texada Island. I said that Joe Spratt had told me that Captain Clarke had told him that the names were there ; but I saw Captain Clarke and he told me he had never told Joe Spratt so—he was here on the Island. Mr. Robson also asked me if somebody had not put up their names for mischief. You stated in the first instance to me that you had heard from good authority that those three names were up. I do not remember asking H. Nelson to become a pre-emptor. I do not recollect asking him, and his declining to have anything to do with the matter. No steps to my knowledge have been taken towards placing the stock on the Canadian or English markets, or both. I never commissioned or employed Mr. DeCosmos to sell the mine or negotiate the matter in any way. I don't know the size of those pre-emptions on Texada Island. I presume they are 160 acres each. Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkern after their return from Texada Island to Burrard Inlet went over to New Westniinster ; that was the last I saw of them. On the way up to Texada Island I cannot say that I had any conversation with Mr. DeCosmos as to the prospect of floating the stock of the iron mine. I don't recollect having any such conversation. I never heard that Mr. DeCosmos entered into any treaty with Sir John A. Macdonald for the sale of the mine. I never have been informed outside of the papers that Mr. DeCosmos had placed the matter in the hands of Mr. Sproat. I do not remember having said to Captain Devereux that I knew what I was about; I did not take those fellows about feeding and wining them for nothing, or words to that effect. I do not recollect speaking in that style to any one. I will not swear that I did not say so to Captain Devereux. I would not be surprised at responsible parties coming forward and saying that I did so. When Trim first made known the valuable discovery to me J. C. Hughes was the only other person present. C. M. Chambers was book-keeper at the time the charges and entries were made against the iron mine. Mr. Moody's examination being finished about 4 r. m., the Commission adjourned to Tuesday, the 31st March, at 11.30 A. M. At request of Mr. Robson, issued subpcena for Capt. John Devereux, Tuesday, 31st March, 1874.—5th Day. Commission met at 11.30. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Secretary stated that he had, on the previous day, at the request of Mr. John Robson, issued a Subpoena to Capt. John Devereux. Present—Mr. Robertson, Q.C. (for Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson), Mr. Mason (for Attorney-General), Mr, Robson, 24 Royal Commission— Texada Island. 1874 Hon. Attorney-General Walkem appeared in person during the afternoon. Witnesses sworn and examined—Mr. William. Dalby, Capt, John Devereux. William Dalby sworn,— I am. one of the pre-emptors on Texada Island, and I am to be a member of the company for working the iron mine, when formed. I hold one hundred and sixty acres. I pre-empted at suggestion of S. P. Moody. I know the names of some of the other pre-emptors. I believe B. Springer, C. M. Chambers, T. J. Mills, Wm. Robertson, B. H. Wilson, J. C. Hughes, Edward Trim, Harry Trim, J. Moftatt, H. W. Hughes, J. A. Cottrill, Charles G. Major, A. Calder, and E. Brown are pre-emptors., I clo not know any persons who go under the names of J. 0. Brown, II. T. Smith, P. Marshall, and T. Carvell, nor do I know that their names have been used for the purposes of pre-emption. I am sure that H. T. Smith, as far as I know, is not meant for Mr. DeCosmos. There were pre-emptions made there without my knowledge, and I do not know the names of the parties. who made them. I left Victoria for Burrard Inlet in steamer " Cariboo-Fly," on the 29th July, 1873, at 8.30 p. m. Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem, Hughes, and Watson were with me. I believe Capt. Raymur, also. The steamer stayed at the Inlet about a day before going to Texada Island. All these parties went up in the steamer next day to the island. The steamer did not go up while these gentlemen remained at the Inlet. I don't think there was at that time any arrangement spoken of with Mr. Walkem and Mr. DeCosmos, about putting the stock on the market; there may have been. Mi'. DeCosmos has spoken to me on the matter since. lie said that when the company was formed, and felt inclined to sell the land, he would like to act as agent. I told him we had no title, but when we had a title aud felt so disposed, I should have no objection to placing it in his hands. I told him he had better see Mr. Moody. The conversation took place some time before Mi-. DeCosmos went away to Ottawa, last year. .1 think this occurred sometime the last of September. He came and told me that he was oft' short!}7, and if the company felt disposed to sell the mine, he would like to act as agent. He was not subsequently appointed agent to my knowledge. I asked him, whilst he was away, to make enquiries about the value of these mines, as it would .confer a favour upon me. The first time I saw the statement of his having tried to dispose of the mine, ■ was in the Colonist paper. After seeing this in the paper, I spoke to Mr. DeCosmos about it; I said: "I see by the paper that you arc about "to sell the iron mine"''or "have sold it," or words to that effect. He stated to me that while in England, he took the opportunity to speak to Mr. Sproat about tho mine, and that, having to hurry back, aud not having time to attend to it, he asked Mr. Sproat to. find out whether the mine was worth anything, aud let him know. I do not know that any attempt was made by DeCosmos to sell the mine at Ottawa. He had no authority to sell it, to my knowledge. There was no rate of commission named as compensation for his services. There was no price put upon the mine that I know of, by the parties who instructed him to sell. Mr. Moody and I have often talked over the value of the mine; and I told parties I thought it would be worth from $150,000 to $250,000. I do not. remember stating to any parties in Victoria that Mr. DeCosmos was entrusted with the sale of the mine; that the price of the mine was put at $150,000; and that Mr. DeCosmos was to have five per cent, commission. I once spoke about the mine in the Council Chamber, and among the Councillors were Councillors Hayward and Morton. I stated that I thought the mine was very rich, and would sell tor a good deal of money, and especially if the Government built the railroad, it would be worth while for the Government to Use it. I may have stated $150,000 to $250,000 as the price. I do not recollect stating that Mr. DeCosmos was entrusted with the sale of the mine; I might have done so; I was a little excited; I had just received a telegram from Mr. DeCosmos, which had revived the matter in my mind. I lost the original telegram, but I haye a, i 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 25 copy: " Ottawa, 29th October, 1873.—Received, Victoria, October 29th, 7 p.m. Received no answer from Moody yet. Enquire and answer. A. DeCosmos." I understood this to mean he had not heard [from Moody respecting the mine. I connected this with the mine, because I had no other transactions with Mr. DeCosmos and Mr. Moody. I know he was not entrusted with the sale of the mine. I understood from this telegram, that Mr. DeCosmos had not had an answer to the letter he had addressed to Mr. Moody, and which I had recommended him to write. I took the copy of the telegram myself; I swear it is a correct copy. I swear positively that I did not say that DeCosmos was to have five per cent, commission. I might have said that evening, that I thought the mine might be sold for $150,000. I may have possibly stated the price of the mine at $150,000. I may have possibly stated that Mr. DeCosmos had authority to sell the mine, aud that he would receive a commission. If I did state so, I had no authority for so doing, and the statements were incorrect. Mr. Moody told me that he had never given Mr. DeCosmos authority to sell the mine, or fixed rate of commission. I • may possibly have made these statements to some one else, but I do not recollect. I may possibly have made such a statement to Mr. Morton, when walking down Government street with him, about the beginning of November, but I do not recollect doing so. I do not remember walking down to the bridge with Mr. Morton. I do not recollect within the last two months [having stated to George Norris that Mr. DeCosmos was entrusted with the sale of the mine; that the price was to be $150,000, and that DeCosmos was to receive five per cent, commission Mr. DeCosmos is not, to my knowledge, now acting as agent for the sale of this mine. I believe Mr. Moody has given some ore to Mr. DeCosmos from the mine, to take with him ; I am not certain ; I cannot tell. I don't remember any rock having been sent to Mr. DeCosmos upon any other occasion. I am not aware of any arrangement or understanding between Mr. DeCosmos and the company to sell the mine. The company, I believe, is not formed yet, I do not know that any one has undertaken to enter into any negotiations with Mr. DeCosmos as to the sale of the mine, other than I have stated. After returning to Burrard Inlet from Texada Island, Mr. DeCosmos and I went over to New Westminster that evening, and Mr. Walkem came over next morning. We all came to Victoria next day. I I don't know whether Mr. Walkem has any interest in the Eureka mine, or not. I was not an original shareholder of the Eureka Company. I have bought some shares since. I don't believe I am a director. I don't kuow how the shares are transferred. As far as I know, neither Mr. Walkem or Mr. DeCosmos were offered anything in compensation, or to bribe them. I do not know that Mr. Walkem has taken up ground that was originally supposed to belong to the Eureka mine, in the neighborhood of the mine. I don't know who the Secretary of the company is. By Mr. Robertson— Quite a number of people have spoken to me about the mine—to get what information they could. I took it they were trying to pump me. I used to give them, I think, a sort of evasive answer. I wished to keep my information to myself. Mr. Moody is my brother-in-law. I have trusted to him a good deal to look after the mine, and have not, therefore, taken much interest in the management of the mine. The reason I took so little interest in the mine was, that Moody was looking after the mine. There was no person at Ottawa that would be likely to kuow the value of the mine, that I could tell. When I spoke to Mr. DeCosmos, I thought he was going to England; I wanted him to find out if any. person was willing to purchase. I thought his position as leader of the Government would give him special opportunities of bringing the matter before the public. They were not pumping me at the Council Chamber, at the conversation on the telegram. 26 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 Captain John Devereux sworn,— I was master of the "Cariboo-Fly" last Summer. I recollect taking her twice up to Burrard Inlet and Texada Island. The first trip was, I should think, about the second week in July. The little log I kept was left behind in the steamer. Mr. Moody, Adam Watson, and VanBremer; I don't think there was any one else on board, besides Douglas Indians. We went up to the island, direct to the Northwest end, and stayed in that bay part of two days, I think, and one night; this bay has since been named "Blubber Bay." We then went around to the iron deposit, on the South side of the island. The island is thirty-seven miles long. It is about seven or eight miles to the iron deposit from the bay. Gillis' Bay is about two or three miles on this side of the iron; there is anchorage there. There are two or three distinct deposits of iron. We were at the island the greater part of three clays, and then returned to Burrard Inlet, calling at Pender Harbour. The next trip was two or three weeks later. We left Victoria for the Inlet; we had on board, Moody, Dalby, DeCosmos, AValkem, Watson, and Captain Rayniur. We stayed at the Inlet on that occasion just long enough to get wood and water, about one night, I think. We burnt wood alone. All the party, except Captain Raymur, went up to Texada Island next day. We took on board, at the Inlet, H. Trim. We first went to an arm of Jarvis Inlet, and landed a lot of lumbermen, and then went to Texada Island. We arrived at the island about midnight. Next morning, landed the parties at the iron deposit, and anchored that night at Gillis' Bay. Wo returned next day by the north end of the island, and left H. Trim on the island; the others all came back to Burrard Inlet. I. heard Mr. DeCosmos exclaiming that the title to the land, under a pre-emption claim, was not worth a snap of the finger to float the stock in an English market. I did not hear him make any suggestions as to how to get the titles good. As a general thing, when they came back to the mill, they were searching uji British subjects, to get them to take up pre-emptions, and get the use of their names; this was after the first trip. I did not hear any direct conversation on the subject. Mr. DeCosmos made the remark on the steamer, about,the small value of the stock, to Mr. Moody. I do not know -what Mr. Moody answered. Mr. Chambers told me he had been asked to give his pre-emption to Mr. Nelson. On his ascertaining that he could not take up an agricultural claim at the same time; he refused to give his name on this ground. It was a general thing at the mill at the time to get names of British subjects, to get the ground covered. Moody volunteered a statement to me, that he had asked Nelson to accompany the party on the second trip to tho island, but he had refused, because he thought it dishonorable—or words to that effect. He said he " would be damned if he would have any such scruples about it." It was something to do with the iron mine, and with the Ministers—but I have no evidence to this effect. I was impressed with the idea that Mr. Moody was trying to use the Ministers in some way with the transactions. Mr. Nelson did not go to Texada Island. I think Mr. Nelson was down here. I never heard anything about the manner in which the good title was to be obtained. I was not confidential with them; they never told me anything. By Mr. Johnson,— I have left the employment of- Moody, Dietz and Nelson. Chambers' conversation took place on the return of tho first trip. With regard to the dates, I spoke entirely from memory. The trip did not take place in Juue, unless on the last day. I ceased to command the " Cariboo-Fly" on 3rd August. Court adjourned to Wednesday, at 11.30 a. m. At request of Mr. John Robson, issued subpeena to R, P. Rithet aud Charles- Morton. 38 Vic. . Royal Commission—Texada Island. 27 AVednesday, 1st April, 1874.—6th Day. Commission met at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present,—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. II. Gray. Secretary stated that on previous day, at request of Mr. Robson, he had issued subpcenas to Messrs. R. P. Rithet and Charles Morton. Present,—Hon. Attorney-General Walkem, Mr. Mason, Mr. Johnson (for Moody, Dietz aud Nelson), Mr. Robson. Witnesses sworn and examined,— Charles Morton, R. P. Rithet, Hon. R. Beaven. Chas. Morion sworn,— I never heard Mr. Dalby say anything in the Council Chamber with regard to the Texada iron mine—out of the Council Chamber I have. On the 1st November, 1873, Mayor Dalby called upon me by appointment in order to proceed to where a new sidewalk was being laid in Menzies street—our object was to give the contractor slight alterations in laying the sidewalk. When near James' Bay, Dalby said, " I think I am in a fair way of doing well." I said, " I am very glad to hear it. " I am doing a good business; I hold a number of shares in the Eureka silver lead; I am also interested in the Texada iron mine." I said, "Oh, indeed! are you in that ? It may be good property, but it has no money value; you cannot work it." Mr. Dalby stated,'"Oh, yes it has. Mr. DeCosmos is entrusted with the sale of the mine to the Dominion Government for $150,000; and he is to receive five per cent, commission if he succeeds in selling it." I said, " Is Mr. DeCosmos interested in the mine ?" He said, " Yes; but his name does not appear, of course." I said, "Then he will get five per cent, commission beyond his share ?" He said, "Certainly." I then said, " Is Captain Clarke in the company?". Dalby stated, "No. Captain Clarke did not do the right thing—he took other parties up there; but I am not sure Captain Clarke will not be taken into our company." Dalby said that if the mine sold for $150,000, his share would be about $15,000. That was the whole" of the conversation. My reason for taking particular notice of this conversation was, that I had had several discussions with parties as to whether there was any money value attached to this mine, that is, in its unworked state. There were some parties staying with me, who talked of going up there to pre-empt, and I had advised them not to, previous to my conversation with Dalby. Mr. Dalby did not restrain me from mentioning this conversation. After the conversation, I informed these parties that the land that contained the iron had really some cash value. I said I had received information that day that convinced me that the mine had a cash value.- I did not state to the parties who had told me; I said I had it from a shareholder, and that I considered the information trustworthy. If the weather had not been too bad, the parties would have gone up with McLaughlin, who had been with Mr. Richardson, the geologist. I did uot know that anything was wrong, nor do I know it now. I thought it in the public interest to mention this to these men, as I understood from the assistant geologist there was plenty of ground there. To assist these men, I went to the Land Office, and got a sketch of the north end of the island, so that they might not encroach on the preemptions already made. Mr. Dalby was not at all excited when he spoke to me; it was about 8 a. m. It came up as an ordinary conversation. I never mentioned any names in this matter until I saw a contradiction to the statement that Mr. DeCosmos had been entrusted with the sale of the. mine. I did then state it, and tell the truth as it had been told to me. I did not hear at that time of any other member of the Government being mixed up in this mine. I did not hear the conversation in the Council Chamber, when Mr. Dalby received the telegram. I am certain I was not present. I read a statement in the Colonist this morning, which must be a mistake, No such conversation, as stated by Mr, Dalby, eveV 28 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 took place before me in the Council Chamber. My conversation with Dalby, on the way to James Bay bridge, was the first intimation I had that Mr. Dalby was interested in the mine. I have not the sketch I got from the Land Office, of Texada Island, in Court; it is in my safe. By Mr. Dalby,— I confirm my memory by a reference to Mr. Clarke, to whom we went to give orders for the alterations. I am quite sure the conversation occurred on the 1st November. You never mentioned the telegram to me. You never spoke to me on the subject in the Council Chamber. I most positively swear that I never said to any one that I had seen the telegram—from DeCosmos, in the Council Chamber, to you—aud I never heard of it till this morning. Everything was fresh to me when this conversation occurred, when Mr. Dalby and I were walking to Menzies street. Mr. Dalby often showed me telegrams from Mr. DeCosmos and others, about municipal matters; anything connected with city matters lie always used to show me. The impression I had from the conversation was, that the arrangement had been made with Mr. DeCosmos before his departure for Ottawa, Robert Patterson Rithet, sworn,— Mr. Moody has always told me that I was to be one of the Texada company, when formed. That is the only interest I have. I am not a pre-emptor on the island. My name may have been used, but not with my authority. I was never asked to become a pre-emptor. ■ I have heard the names of some of the pre-emptors from Mr. Moody. C. M. Chambers, B. H. Wilson, J. C. Hughes, and William Dalby are the pre-emptors, as far as I can recollect, that Moody told me. Mr. Moody never told me how the title to the land was to be acquired. I. do not know H. J. Smith or P. Marshall,.or J. Wilson, as pre-emptors. I was never told by Mr. Moody what arrangement had been made for disposing of the property, nor do I know that any has been made. There was a box of ore taken from our store by Mr. DeCosmos, and a map of the mine, I believe. I asked, and was told the box contained iron ore. I saw a map of the island, but cannot say it was the one DeCosmos took. I had no knowledge or information of the reason why Mr. DeCosmos took the ore. I know nothing of the proceedings with-the American Consul here. I am not Secretary for the Eureka silver mine, nor do I know who is. Hon. Robert Beaven, sworn,— I am Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works. The pre-emptions on Texada Island were recorded at New Westminster. The returns from that office give full particulars. The first application was made by II. W. Hughes, on 19th June, 1873, and received at New Westminster same day; 2nd, H. Trim, -same date in both cases; 3rd, Jobu. Moftatt, same date both applications; 4th, J. A. Cottrill, same date both applications; 5th, J. C. Hughes, application dated 2nd July 1873, and received at New Westminster 3rd July; 6th, J. A. Cottrill, application dated 16th August, 1873, and received 18th August, 1873.; (7) Edward Trim, same dates; (8) B. II. Wilson, same dates; (9) William Dalby, same dates; (10) J. C. Brown, application made and received on 18th August; (11) William Robertson, 18th August both cases; (12) T. J. Mills, 18th August both cases; (13) C. M. Chambers, 18th August both cases; (14) B. Springer, 18th August both cases; (15) Charles G. Major, 19th August both cases; (16) Thomas Carvel], application dated the 18th, received on 19th August; (17) Ebenezer Brown, 19tli August both cases; (18) Alexander Calder, same dates; (19) Thomas Wilson, application dated 18th, received 19th August; (20) Henry Smith, same dates; (21) application dated 20th, and received 26th August, to pre-empt as a firm, from Captain Clarke, Captain Cooper, T. G. Burnes, and Robert Ker; (22) C. T. Dupont, same dates; (2-3) Thomas A. Bulkley, same dates. These are all the applications made to pre-empt on Texada island up to tkis date, as far as I kuow. My last returus are up to 16th March, Vic, lloyal Commission-*-Texada Island. 29 1874, and cover all applications made up to that date at New Westminster. Leave was granted in all these cases. Of these applicants, the following persons recorded, that, is to say, received certificates of pre-emption record: (1) H. W. Hughes, 20th June, 1873; (2) H. Trim, 20th June; (3) John Moftatt, 20th June; (4) J. A. Cottrill, 20th June; (5) J. C. Hughes, 3rd July; (6) J. A. Cottrill, 28th August; (7) Edward Trim, 28th August; (8) B. H. Wilson, 28th August; (9) William Dalby, 28th August; (10) J. C. Brown, 28th August; (11) W. Robertson, 28th August; (12) T. J. Mills, 28th August; (13) CM. Chambers,28thAugust; (14) B. Springer;' (15) C. G. Major, 28th August; (16)'Thomas Carvell, 29th August; (17) E. Brown, 29th August; (18) Alexander Calder, 29th' August; (19) Thomas Wilson, 29th August; (20) Henry Smith, 29th August. This is the end of the pre-emption records; no pre-emption record certificates were ever issued to the remaining applicants. I do not know that they applied for pre-emption records. No reason is assigned for refusing to give a pre-emption record to Captain Clarke and his company, C. T. Dupont and Thomas A: Bulkley. Nos. 2 and 3, on the map of Texada Island, now produced, are mining licences; No. 2 is the Malaspina Company; No. 3 the Texada Company. The Malaspina Company's licence was granted on 1st October, 1873, to Edward Trim, J. II. Van Bremer, James Trim, H. Trim, J. G. Moody, T. J. Mills, Joshua Moody, J. C. Hughes, B. H. Wilson, H. Nelson, W. Dalby, P. W. Swett, T. L. Briggs, S. P. Moody, J. L. Crimp. The application, for this licence was made and received on 18th August, 1873. No. 3, Texada Company ; licence granted on the 1st October to S. P. Moody, J. H. Van J3remer, George Dietz, H. Nelson, H. Trim, W. Dalby, J. C. Hughes, J. J. Cowley, P. H. Swett, B. H. Wilson, F. Pagden, A. Watson, Senior. The application for this licence was made and received on 18th August. Malaspina Company mineral licence was not to exceed in the whole five hundred statute acres, under Mineral Ordinance, 1869; Texada Company, the same. No. 4, Gulf of* Georgia Company; mining licence issued, of same dimensions; on 24th October, to C. M. Chambers, J. J. Cowley, S. Duck, J. L. Crimp, T. G. Moody, W. Robertson, C. G. Major, E. Brown, J. A. R. Homer, A. Calder, H. V. Edmunds, J. A. Calbraith, H. W. Hughes. No. 5, Madeline Mining Company; application made on 19th August, and licence granted on 27th October, to J. A. Webster, H. V. Edmonds, George C. Webster, A. Watson, Junior, P. McQuade, George J. Findlay, J. H. Brodie, E. Marvin, J. Cowper, T. S. Milligan. No. 6, Dominion Mining Company; application 18th August, and a mining licence issued on 27th October, to J. A. Webster, G. C. Webster, H. V. Edmonds, A. Watson, Senior, J. Cowper, G. J. Findlay, J. H. Brodie, G. Buck, J. McMurphy, C. N. Trew. These are all the mining licences issued on Texada Island. An application for a mining licence was made on the 21st August, and received on 26th August, on same island, and was refused by H. V. Edmonds the same day, because the land was already taken up. This is tho only application refused. The Commissioners rose at 4 p. m., and adjourned further examination of Hon. Mr. Beaven to Thursday, at 11.30 a. m. Thursday, 2nd April, 1874,—7th Day.- Commission met at 11.30. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Mr. Mason (for Hon. Attorney-General), Mr. Bobson. With regard to,witnesses, the Chief Justice stated: We propose to hear,'in the first instance, all witnesses Mr. Robson chooses to call, whom we shall call witnesses for prosecution; then, any witnesses Mr. Bobertson may choose to call, 80 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 witnesses for defence. Then, any person who considers his character implicated, would be entitled to call witnesses; and when that is done, we shall call any witnesses that we may think able to throw any light upon the matter; and then there will be a general reply upon all tho circumstances, aud the matter will be closed. Witnesses examined,—Robert Beaven, partially: Hugh Nelson. The examination of Hon. Mr. Beaven was continued,— An application for a Mining Licence was made on 21st and received on 26th August, and refused the same day, by Messrs. C. T. Dupont, R. Ker, I. W. Powell, W.^R. Clarke, James Cooper, B. Madigan, T. A. Bulkley, B. W. Pearse, W. C. Ward, and H. P. P. Crease. No other applications have been made for Mining Licence on Texada Island up to the. 16th March. There were two applications made to me personally to purchase land on Texada Island under Clause 16 of the "Land Ordinance Amendment Act, 1873." The clause came into effect on 21st July last. Mr. S. P. Moody wanted to purchase some land at $1 per acre. I told him I could not sell as the machinery was not complete. Mr. C. T. Dupont, on behalf of James' Cooper, Robert Ker, W. R. Clarke, Benjamin Madigan, and T. A. Bulkley, made a similar application on 23rd August, 1873. Mr. Moody's was simply a verbal application for information. Mr. Dupont's was a written application to purchase 480 acres of land, and I replied in writing that the clause was under consideration of the Government, and his application was not granted. The Government came to a decision about the end of August. The Order in Council fixing price of mineral laud at $10 per acre is dated 20th Sept. y the Order also limited the quantity to 640 acres. There is an Order in Council fixing the price of unsurveyed land at $2 50 per acre—reserving all the precious and baser metals and minerals to the Government. These regulations were in force in the latter part of September last; all these have been rescinded by Order in Council within a month past. Henry W. Hughes is the first applicant to pre-empt on Texada Island. Leave was granted— he applied one day and recorded the next. The practice in the Land Office here is frequently to record on the same day that permission to pre-empt is granted, although the applicant has entered previous to getting the permission. When I give a man permission to pre-empt I never refuse to record his land on the ground that he has entered before he has received the permission. I have never given any special instructions upon that point to any of my agents. If they received any instructions they would receive them from me. Since the pre-emptions on Texada Island a certificate of improvement on Pre-emption Record No. 100 has been granted to H. W. Hughes, dated 23rd February, 1874. Also to Harry Trim (Pre-emption Record No. 1,091), dated 23rd February, 1874. Also to J. C. Hughes, 12th March, 1874, on Pre-emption Record No. 1,102. No leaves of absence.have been granted to my knowledge. So far as I know no favoritism has been shown to either of these parties, but the usual course has been pursued. I am told the Whole iron deposit is contained in a very few acres. I am not aware yet that these are valuable mineral lands. I am not aware that there is anything in the Acts to prevent anyone pre-empting valuable mineral lands. It is not the practice of the Government to withdraw all valuable mineral land from the operation of the pre-emption laws. The Mineral Districts have been established since 1869. I am not aware that I have in any way declined or refused or delayed any person taking up land under the preemption law, on the ground that it was mineral land and should be treated differently, nor am I aware of any instance of the kind. I am not aware of any persons having made applications to pre-empt land on Vancouver Island and having been refused, on the ground that the laud was mineral land and must be treated differently. I think Mr. W. A. Robertson aud others obtained leave to pre-empt in Cowichan District, and recorded. The length of Texada Island is twenty-seven nautical miles. 38 Vic, Royal Commission—Texada Island. 81 Hugh Nelson, sworn,— I am a member of the firm of Moody, Dietz & Nelson. I believe I was to be a member of the Lon Company to be formed. I am not a pre-emptor on Texada Island. I have no interest in any pre-emptions on Texada Island, except as mentioned. I have an interest in one, if not two, of the " Mining Licence Companies," I think the Texada and Malaspina Companies. I think the Company looked upon five of the pre-emption claims as being valuable on account of iron. I cannot say in what particular pre-emption the iron was contained. A number of the pre-emptions were taken up on Gillis' Bay, partly because they were good land, and also because Gillis' Bay is the only port of shipment. I think H. Trim's, J. C. Hughes', II. W. Hughes' and J. A. Cottrill's pre-emptions covered the .iron deposit. The reason I did not take much interest in the matter was, because I did not believe in the value of the iron. I think I could be tempted to sell out my prospective interest for a very reasonable sum. I only received the information of the sale for $150,000 from the Colonist. I only wish it was true. I think Dalby was what is . commonly called "gassing." I arrived here on steamer "Prince Alfred," on my return from Ottawa, on or about 10th June. I found Mr. Moody here with steamer " Cariboo-Fly." He wanted me to start off that evening for Burrard Inlet, for the purpose of proceeding to Texada, to examine what he considered the valuable' deposit of iron. I told him no, I would not go; but I would probably be prepared to accompany him next day. We left on or about the 11th, in the evening. We proceeded to Burrard Inlet, remained there one and a half or two days, and then started for Texada Island. We went to Blubber Bay; it was blowing pretty fresh, and it was the opinion that we could not land a small boat opposite the iron deposit. We laid off" about one day. We then went round the head of the island, and got into a small boat of H. Trim's and landed, the steamer being in the meantime kept in the offing tinder slow steam. We explored the iron; -put in two or three blasts, and blew out some iron ore. I think I wrote out two notices for mining companies; under the Mineral Ordinance. I think the intention at the time was to form two companies. The tree we chose to put them on was about ojiposite the centre of the iron deposit; this was before any pre-emptions were made. I don't think any action was ever taken on those notices; I do not recollect if any name was signed to them or not. After staying on the island three or four hours, we embarked and put oft* to the steamer. On our return to Burrard Inlet, I believe certain men were asked to make application to pre-empt, for the purpose of securing land on Texada Island —some by Mr. Moody; I don't recollect hearing him ask any one. I asked Mr. Chambers myself; in asking Mr. Chambers, I believe I told him that by preempting he would become one of the company to be formed. At first he agreed to pre-empt; afterwards he refused, stating that there was an agreement between him and his brother to pre-empt together for farms. I believe he afterwards became a pre-emptor. He told me he pre-empted at suggestion of Mr. Moody. I asked him to pre-empt with a view of forming a company. He said his idea was,' he should be a member of the company. Chambers was the only party I spoke to. I am aware others were spoken to, and did pre-empt. I know nothing about the accounts opened in the books of the firm. I believe there was no understanding at all as regards the expenses of the trips. Moody's idea was, that the expenses were to be charged to "Iron Mine," to be defrayed by any company that was to be formed. A second set pre-empted, I believe with the view of the same ultimate end. Some have pre-empted .who have no connection with the company. I do not know Henry Smith. I do not know that any fictitious names were employed in any way. In fact, I am sure there were not. I do not think the parties would be guilty or so foolish as to use fictitious names. It is very possible that Henry Smith pre-empted on his own account. I do not know who asked Charles G. Major to pre-empt. I do not know who asked J. C. Brown to pre-empt. This was the only time 1 was on Texada Island. Harry Trim has been an occupant of the island for some time. J. C. Hughes was for some time down here, and H. W. Hughes §2 Royal Commissioji—Texada island, 1874 lived at the Inlet: they must, therefore, have occupied by agent. J. A. Cottrill did not reside there, to my knowledge. The Trim's were the only pre-emptors who resided there. Some people who were working on the island, I understood, represented the pre-emptors. I do not know how long they were on the island. The expense of improvement and occupation, I presume, would be paid by the iron mine. I have not the slightest idea of the expenses incurred from first to last. I can't tell what pre-emptions were to form common stock of company. I did not know all the parties "who were to constitute company; S. P. Moody, J. C. Hughes, Joshua Moody, Thomas Moody, A. Watson, James Van Bremer, and Swett are some of them. The titles were to be obtained in the usual manner. Moody was the principal manager. A great portion of the time I was away. The idea was, that money could eventually be made out of the mine. As far as the Canadian market was concerned, I am not aware of any steps being taken for a sale. I was in Ottawa. No offer was ever made, to my knowledge, by Mr. DeCosmos to Sir John A. Macdonald, or any negotiations at all. Mr. DeCosmos, during my stay in Ottawa, never mentioned the Texada mine. I should think it very odd, being at Ottawa, if such negotiations were made without my knowledge, as I was an interested party. I swear this to the best of my knowledge, remembrance, information, and belief. One day, at Ottawa, passing through the library, some time during the session of October, 1873, I saw a large block of iron ore from the Haycock mine lying on the table, and on the block of iron ore was a cold chisel, supposed to have been made from the iron at a single melting, and supposed to be as good as steel. I think I remarked to DeCosmos, that I hoped the Texada Island would turn out as good: this was a few days before the fall of the Ministry. That is all that passed between us at Ottawa, about Texada Island, until immediately prior to Mr. DeCosmos' departure (and after the fall). I was in his room at the Russell House; I said to him, "DeCosmos, when you are in England, will you see if anything can be done "with the Texada Island iron mine ?" I think he told me he had written Moody, and received no reply. I told him that was very like Moody, and not at all to be wondered at. He said, "You must give me some authority." I told him I had no power to give him any authority. He said, "Write me a note, or something to " show," or words to that effect. I wrote him a note to this effect, " Will you, while "in England, enquire what can be done with the Texada iron mine, and inform me "or the parties connected with it ?" I had no right to give any authority. This note was signed " Hugh Nelson, on behalf of shareholders." Mr. DeCosmos said he would see what he could do in the matter. Nothing from that time up to-day has ever passed between him and me on the subject. I have not had the curiosity to mention the matter" to him, and ask him what he had done. I have not heard of any arrangement with Mr. DeCosmos about the sale of the mine, up to the present time. I heard, the other day, that DeCosmos had taken a plan of Texada Island and a box of ore. I saw a copy of the plan that he took; the copy of the plan was given to Mr. DeCosmos on the 11th March, 1874; this is only what I have heard. Mr. S. P. Moody told me that Mi". DeCosmos had taken a plan; he told me this' since his examination here. I am satisfied there was no employment, any further than I gave Mr. DeCosmos, when he went to England. Mr. Moody told me that he had merely given DeCosmos the ore and plan, and had not employed DeCosmos in any way. I believe this was last Monday, after his examination. I have not taken much interest in the matter. I have taken much more interest since these slanders have been published in the public press. I have never heard from any person other than Mr. Robson, that Mr. DeCosmos has been employed, that is, from any person who could be presumed to have any authority or know anything about it, to make such a statement. Some one may have said to me, in a joking manner, that DeCosmos was going to sell the mine. By Mr. Walkem,— I never refused to go on the second trip of the steamer " Cariboo-Fly" to 88 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 38 Texada Island, because, as stated by Captain Devereux, I considered it dishonorable; nor did I ever use that word at all. There was no lurking suspicion or idea in my mind that Mr. DeCosmos and Mr. Walkem were being asked up for improper purposes. DeCosmos, after his return from Ottawa, and hearing that this iron had been struck, told Moody that he'had had conversations with parties in Ottawa about iron, and said, that if iron could be discovered out here, it would be very valuable. Moody, on hearing this, asked him to come up. You were merely asked to come up for a trip. I think you had told me that you would like to go up and see the Inlet. I think Mi-. Walkem's trip was merely a matter of pleasure. My idea of Mr. DeCosmos' aud Mr. Walkem's trip that time was rather a matter of pleasure. I recollect your leaving the wharf with DeCosmos and Dalby. The reason I did not go was, that if I went with Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem, Moody wouldhave had particular business, and left me to do the honors. I did not pre-empt, because I expected to be away a good deal, and could not give the matter my attention; • beyond this, I had no particular reason. Commission adjourned to Wednesday, at 11.30 a. m. Wednesday, 8th April, 1874.—8tii Day. Commission met at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. . Present—Mr. Mason (for Hon. Attorney-General), Mr. Robson. Following parties subpoenaed at request of Mr. Robson,—Adam Watson, C. T. Dupont, William A. Robertson, Frank Pagden, Coote M. Chambers, George Hargreaves. Witnesses examined,—Hugh Nelson, Robert Beaven, C. T. Dupont, Frank Pagden. Hugh Nelson, examination continued,—■ Deponent stated he wished to make a correction in his evidence, with regard to a conversation he had had with Mr. DeCosmos in Victoria, with regard to Texada mine. "In my evidence I stated that I had had no conversation with Mr. DeCosmos " on the subject of the Texada mine except in Ottawa." I wish to state:—About five or six weeks, ago, I was going to Burrard Inlet aud Mr. DeCosmos spoke to me about the Texada iron; and said now that he was going to Ottawa and out of the Government here and untrammelled with regard to the matter, that if we wished him to take aiiy action with respect to it he would like to hear from us on the subject. I told him I was going to the Mill and would speak to Moody ; but I could not see how, under the circumstances, we could give him any definite authority in the matter. My reason for not having thought of this was, I think, having mentioned the conversation at Ottawa. I told him we could not possibly give him any authority, and I did not see what could be done until everything had gone through the regular course of law and we had got a proper title. By Mr. Bobson,— I cannot inform you who were most active in forming the Company at Victoria. I took some small part in getting the pre-emptions covered by mining licence. I thought this course would render the ground more secure, in the event of there being anything in the law to prevent our taking up land of that nature by pre-emption, The batch of the pre-emptions made at New Westminster on the 34 Boydl Commission—lexada Island. 1874 18th August was brought about by the report of H. Trim, who arrived from Texada Island, and represented that in the interest of the Company it was desirable that more land should be taken up. I Was not in Victoria or the Lilet at that time. I had just come down from Yale at that time ; one of the reasons was to obtain a shipping point, another was to extend his lines more than he inteuded at first. About 14th or 15th August I met Moody and Trim coming into New Westminster from the Inlet and returned to New, Westminster with them. I suppose they wanted my advice and assistance on the subject of the pre-emptions or taking some action to secure additional valuable land for the Company. The following day I came to Victoria, I left for Victoria with the intention of seeing certain members of the Government, to find if I could obtain leave to purchase, and if not to telegraph back to New Westminster. I was going to make an official application. I went to Mr. DeCosmos and he took me to Mr. Walkem. I met DeCosmos on the street, but prior to this meeting, I met Dalby.' Dalby told me that certain gentlemen, viz.: Messrs. Bulkley and Dupont had gone to Texada Island to jump our claims. I don't recollect his stating what authority he had. I shortly after met DeCosmos aud asked about the purchase. I don't recollect his answer, but it was to the effect that it could not be done. I went with DeCosmos to Mr. Walkem's, and from them jointly I got this reply, or to the same purpose. The next step was Mr. Dalby's going to the Inlet. The steamer " Isabel" was going to Nanaimo and Dalby made an offer to the steamer to go with him to Burrard Inlet, (I presume this was charged to the iron mine, I cannot tell), for the purpose of making these pre-emptions. The fact of his going away in that manner was that he had heard that Messrs. Dupont and Bulkley were on the Island for the purpose of taking up land. I don't know tho name of II. Smith who pre-empted upon this occasion. I don't know T. Wilson. I don't know when he pre-empted or whether he pre-empted for the Company or not. I think the "Isabel " received $100 for this trip. The steamer left Dalby at tho Inlet and towed Trim's boat out to the Island. Mr. Nelson, recalled,— Harry Trim's signature to the second application is in my handwriting. I have no power of attorney. I have no doubt the signature was put there by Trim's authority. He was not at the Inlet. That would be somewhere about the time of the "Cariboo's" return ; because previous to the arrival of the steamer he had gone back to the Island in his own boat. lion. Mr. Beaven, examination continued,— I have some papers here bearing on the application of William Archibald Robertson, in Vancouver Island. The application is dated the 16th June, 1873; it is to pre-empt one hundred and sixty acres on Kokesailah River. The application was granted, and twenty days given to record. The land was recorded on the 30th June, at 12.30 p. m. So there was no delay in recording this land. I know of no delay in recording this pre-emption at all. C. T. Dupont, sworn,— I went to Texada Island in the month of August, last, to take up some land. I was at Comox about the 10th or 11th of August, and learned that Richardson, the geologist, had publicly stated that there was a valuable deposit of iron on Texada Island. I went to Richardson's camp to enquire about it, and he told me there were some pre-emptions taken up, and told me that the iron lie spoke of had not been pre-empted, he had explored in his professional capacity and could not find any stakes and that he knew where the other pre-emptions were. Mr. Bulkley stated that he would go with me in his canoe and pre-empt. We went. I think we were on the Island on the 11th August, we had a party of five men. Bulkley had his instrument and chain and we went with the view of making a survey. We had no idea of jumping anybody's claim. Mr. Richardson told us the land was not taken 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 35 up, he knew it from Trim himself who showed him the land taken up. We wanted to make the survey in order to avoid interfering with any other people. We spent two days on the Island exploring to find their posts and making surveys. Richardson having told us of the land and described the other pre-emptions. We found posts covering a great deal of valuable iron. I think we found five posts—the names of the two Hughes', Harry Trim, Moftatt and Cottrill, I think, were on the posts. We found by chaining that these parties had taken a great deal more than they would be entitled to by the Act. We then made a survey of what we wished to take up. We were making the surveys for ourselves, Captains Cooper.and Clarke, and Ker. On the 14th August we had completed the surveys and put in our posts, marked with names and dates. I suppose the posts are there still. We only found the posts of three claims at the commencement and only after two days hard surveying did we find the posts of Moftatt and Cottrill. These last two only interfered with the claims taken up in my name, but with none of the others. We saw Trim arrive with a little sloop, just after we had done our surveying, with some lumber. He mentioned that my location interfered with some of the claims taken up by them. I explained the matter to him and stated, I did not expect to get more than we were entitled to. AVe came down by steamer to Victoria and Mr. Bulkley and I went to the Land Office. I made application to Mr. Beaven personally for permission to purchase. I was told there were certain rules being framed by the Government to regulate the sale of lands, and until they were settled he could not give me any information on the subject. I then wanted to know if we could pre-empt without prejudice to the right of purchase when the regulations became known. We were allowed to see the applications, received at the Land Office, on Texada Island and we found they described land totally different from the land they had posted, in fact some three or four miles away. It described it North of Gillis Bay —quite away from what they wanted. These applications did not cover the land required by us. The iron ore is three and a half miles to the East of Gillis Bay, the mistake made in the applications was to describe the iron three and a-half miles North instead of East. I wished then to find out from the Commissioner which ought to govern, the applications or their posts, as I wished them to have what they were evidently entitled to before we got any. The answer was to the effect that the practice was uncertain, but that he wished to do equity or justice. He told me that to apply for leave to pre-empt I must go to New Westminster. This was about the 20th August. From information I had got I thought it advisable to be .as quick as we could. We sent over an agent to New Westminster to make the application. I also gave him an application for a mineral licence. Mr. Elliott Anderson, our agent, returned from New Westminster and stated that Mr. Edmonds, the Commissioner, there had recorded a lot of applications on the 18th August, coveriug the ground that we were applying for. Our applications were granted provided we. cud not interfere with parties who had already applied. Mr. DeCosmos expressed great indignation when he learned that I and others had gone to Texada Island to preempt. My informants were Mr. Gaston and Mr. Elliott Anderson, at separate times. Mr. Gaston was oil board the "Douglas" when we launched our canoe for Texada Island, and was therefore aware of what we were going to do. I saw him after we came back, he said that when the " Douglas " arrived he went to the Colonial- and Mr. DeCosmos was there getting his dinner. DeCosmos asked Gaston what news there was, and Gaston told him that Bulkley and myself had gone to Texada Island to pre-empt some iron. He said DeCosmos got so excited about it that he lost his appetite for his dinner. He said he never saw a man so excited in his life. After Anderson had returned from New Westminster, referring to a different occasion, he stopped me in the street to tell me that he did not kuow what Mr. DeCosmos' object was ; but he was damning me for my connection' with Texada, and said this was what came of bringing Canadians to British Columbia, I left Mr. Anderson standing where he told me as I was rather indignant with him. These parties wished me to inter that Mr. DeCosmos was interested but I don't know. I dropped thq 36 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 matter on finding this was Mr. DeCosmos' feeling towards me and not wishing to run counter to anybody. I dropped in part on account of Mr. DeCosmos, as I did not wish to incur his animosity. The reason the applications were rushed in on the 18th August, was because Mr. Nelson informed me they had heard that we were on the Island and despatched a steamer at once. We saw no evidence of any occupation of the pre-emptions. Trim arrived with another man, perhaps two, in his'sloop with some lumber aud said he was goiug to put certain improvements on the preemption. By Mr. Mason,— I did not make my application to Mr. Beaven in writing. I have no knowledge of any member of the Government holding land on Texada Island, or being interested. By Mr. Robson,— Mr. Anderson left the tracing he brought from New Westminster in my possession. I do not know where it is; I will endeavor to find it. Frank Pagden, sworn,— I am a shareholder in the Texada iron mine; in the Texada Company, I believe, by pre-emption. I pre-empted an allotment, supposed to contain iron. I preempted some time during the Summer. I pre-empted through another person, through Mr. Dalby. I gave to Moody, Dietz and Nelson and Dalby full authority to act for me. Dalby sent to me to ask me if I would join the company. I should think this was about July or August, I never heard that Dupont had been to Texada Island until to-day. I had known of this place some six or seven years ago. Morton has spoken to me about this matter—the Dalby conversation. He told me that DeCosmos had tried to sell the mine in England; that the Vancouver Coal Company, at Nanaimo, had been written to by Sproat to find the owners of the Texada mine. It struck me that it was a very good channel to enable the company to sell their mine, that is, if they had gone in with DeCosmos or Sproat. I said to Morton, when he finished, " Whatever DeCosmos has to do with the mine, I don't " want to know anything, nor do I intend to say anything, as I am interested in the "company." At the time of the conversation, 1 was going round with Morton, canvassing to see whether it would be worth his while to come out for the District. Mr. John Robson requested Secretary to subpoena J. C. Hughes, Harry Trim. Commission adjourned to 11.30 to-rnorrow. Thursday, 9th April, 1874.—9th Day. Commission met at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Mr. Mason (for Hon. Attorney-General), Mr. Robson. Witnesses examined—William A. Robertson,. George Hargreavcs, Herbert Gaston. Commissioners decided, with approval of the Hon. the Attorney-General, to hold a sitting at New Westminster, on the 18th instant, and directed the Secretary to give notice to witnesses. Secretary, at request of Mr. Bobson, subpeenaed. Messrs. II. V. Edmonds, Harry Trim, J C. Hughes, and Adam Watson, to appear before the Royal Commissioners at the Court House, New Westminster, on Saturday, the 18th instant, at 10 a. m. Secretary also wrote to Mr. Sewell P. Moody, requiring his attendance at the same time and place, with the books of Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Neloon, in which any entries had been made with regard to the Texada Island iron ore, 88 Vio, Royal Commission—Texada island, 87 William A. Robertson, sworn,— I had no conversation with Mr. DeCosmos about the iron mine, but I have had about iron—that is, before the excitement, I had some conversation with DeCosmos about Texada Island after Dupont and Bulkley went to jump the claim. I told Mr. DeCosmos they went up to jump his claim. He asked me to tell the circumstances about the jumping. I was coming down in the steamer " Douglas," in August,, last year; the steward told me that Dupont, Captains Clarke and Cooper, and some others I don't recollect, had gone in the "Douglas" to Texada to jump an iron mine. A gentleman from Canada, named William Sutton, was on board the steamer at the same time as myself. A piece of iron was shown him; he brought it up on deck, and asked me what I thought of it. I told him I knew the ore, as Mr. DeCosmos had shown me some of the ore before. He (Mr. Sutton) said he was informed the ore had been taken from a few miles back of Nanaimo. I told them it was a mistake, it had come from Texada; the steward, Booth, told me where they had been. I told this to DeCosmos the next day after I came down— when I told him his mine was jumped. This was the trip the steamer left Mr. Dupont and Mr. Bulkley on the island. He asked me particularly who the parties were, laughed good-naturedly, and that was all that passed at the time. I cannot say this was the first information he received. The Sunday after Mr. DeCosmos and Mr. Walkem had returned from Texada Island, I saw Mr. DeCosmos near his own office in Victoria, and he told me that if I would come up he would show me a specimen of iron. He asked me what I thought of the iron. I told him I thought' it was very good iron ore. He produced a piece of limestone rock, and said, " This is ~ the flux that made the iron." There were barnacles on the limestone rock. He' did not tell me where he found the iron. I said, " You found this on the sea coast." "Yes," he said, "we can load a ship right from the deposit," or words to that effect. I said, 'i You've got a very good thing," and he said, in words as near as I can recollect, "I have," or "It is a good thing." That is all that passed as near as I can recollect at that time. Some time last winter, about two months ago, Mr. Adam Watson was in my shop, I said something to him about Mr. DeCosmos ' being interested in the iron mine, this was just after the first agitation in the papers. As near as I can recollect I made reference to the charge published in the' Colonist against Mr. DeCosmos being interested in the mine. Mr. Watson'stated DeCosmos had no intesest in the mine, but he had the selling of it. I said I thought that amounted to an interest. He said he did not know whether DeCosmos had anything for selling it or not. He said nothing about price or value. • I have had a conversation with Watson since and he denied that he said DeCosmos had the selling of the mine. I have no doubt biit he did say so. I am [quite positive that he did say so. There was nothing that led me to believe that other members of the Government were interested. DeCosmos had often spoken to me about iron before, but after this discovery and showing me the ore, he kept dark as to the place where he found it and therefore concluded that he was deeply interested, though he did not say so. I recollect hearing several times that the members of the Government had an interest in it. My impression was that the Government party who went up to Texada Island were interested. The ring was generally considered to consist of members of the Government and Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson. George Hargreaves, sworn,— I am a surveyor. I was employed to make surveys on Texada Island last fall. I don't remember the date ; I think it was in October. I was employed by Moody & Co. to make a survey on Texada Island. My instructions were to survey the land over which the iron ore extended. I was employed to survey and see how much land the iron ore extended over. I was instructed verbally. I went and surveyed the land and reported to Moody & Company. I made a pencil drawing at the office of Messrs. Moody,.Dietz & Nelson at Burrard Inlet. I don't know how many acres were included in my survey. Harry Trim took me to the spot where 88 Royal Commission—Texada Island, 18 74 the iron was. We went ashore at Gillis' Bay to get our lunch. We went to about three miles to the westward where we camped, and next day we commenced surveying. Trim said he would show me the iron, which he did, and I commenced surveying immediately. The iron was not more than half-a-mile from where we camped. He showed me an iron deposit. I put in a small peg for a surveying mark. I marked out no land. I left the peg in the ground. I ran my line. I went to calculate the quantity of iron and the least quantity of land that would include the iron deposit. I saw one post only but no name; I was told though that the post was a corner-post of J. C.Hughes' claim. I was employed by the same parties to survey the Eureka Mine. Mr. Walkem was at the Eureka Mine in August, the same; time that I was there. I was there to lay out certain silver mining claims, and having laid these out I came away. Subpoenas issued tor Herbert Gaston and C. Elliott Anderson, by direction of the Commissioners. Herbert Gaston, sworn,— I was on the steamer "Douglas," about the middle of August last, with Messrs. Dupont and Bulkley. I got on the steamer at Comox. We landed Messrs. Dupont and Bulkley at Texada Island. Dupont and Bulkley did not state what they were going there for, but Booth, the steward, told me they were going to take up an iron mine. Booth showed me some iron specimens. There appeared to be some mystery about the matter. I came on to Nanaimo, and then down to Victoria next day. Mr. Dupont makes a mistake in saying that I told him I had had any conversation with Mr. DeCosmos, or he with me, about tho Texada Island matter at any time. In the earlj^ part of September, Mr. Dupont was on board the steamer going to Yale. I met him on the steamer. I got on at Hope. I asked him how he and Mr. Bulkley got on with his Texada Island expedition. He told me he found, on landing on the island, that other parties had got ahead of them in getting possession of the land. He said, although he doubted the validity of the claims, it was not worth a contest, and he had given it up. He alluded to the "Cariboo-Fly" having gone to the island with Mr. DeCosmos on board. I said, "You ought not to have scared Mr. DeCosmos so " much; for, when he heard that you had gonethere, you made him so excited that "he lost his dinner." I was chaffing Mr. Dupont at the time, and said, "Why did "not you Dominion officials hold on, and have a contest with the Provincial "officials?" This communication was made to me in a confidential conversation, and I decline to give my informant's name. I heard the information had this effect on Mr. DeCosmos. Commission adjourned to 11.30 a. m. to-morrow. Friday, 10th April, 1874.—10th Day. Commission met at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Hon. Attorney-General Walkem, Mr. Mason, Mr. Robson. Subpoena issued for W. H. Oliver, by direction of the Commissioners. Witnesses examined—Herbert Gaston, George Hargreaves, W. H. Oliver, Charles Elliott Anderson. Herbert Gaston, re-appearance,— Deponent appeared, and gave the name of his informant as W. H. Oliver. 88 Vic. Royal Commission-** Texada Island. 89 George Hargreaves, re-appearance,— Witness appeared, and produced plans of his surveys on Texada Island. The Commissioners, after inspecting them, thought* that they did not bear upon tho case, and returned them to the witness. W. H. Oliver, sworn,— I made a trip in the "Douglas" with Mr. Gaston and landed about ten miles short of Comox, to examine the Baynes Sound Coal Mining Company. On the following morning Clarke called and took us on board the "Douglas," on our return; and we found on board Messrs. Bulkley and Dupont. Mr. Bulkley had a large canoe on the deck of the steamer. Captain Clarke headed the steamer toward Texada Island, and about two or three miles oft' the Island he launched the canoe with provisions. Messrs. Bulkley and Dupont, two Indians and a white man got into the canoe and made for the Island. I should think probably .they were two miles off the island. We proceeded to Nanaimo thence to Victoria. On landing I met Mr. DeCosmos directly in front of the- Standard office. It might have been one or two hours afterwards. Mr. DeCosmos was aware of the object of my trip there, and he asked me some questions about the Baynes Sound mine and what parties were on board the steamer. I told him about Bulkley and Dupont landing at Texada Island, not knowing he felt any interest in the matter at the time. Mr. DeCosmos, upon hearing this, became quite excited, and made some remarks about Mr. Dupont, one of which was that he was too late. He seemed to complain that new officials should be sent out from Canada, to the detriment of old residents of the Province. That is all I remember. He appeared very much excited at the news of Mr. Dupont's going there, and said a great many things, as men will do. No impression was made on my mind that Mr. DeCosmos was interested in the mine, but I could see no cause for the excitement. I did not know at the time the object of their visit to the iron mine, though there had been whisperings on board the steamer. I made no statement that the news affected Mr. DeCosmos' digestion. I did not see Mr. DeCosmos at the Colonial. I never had any conversation with DeCosmos about this matter, except in front of the Standard office, as already mentioned. He never told me that he was interested in the Texada mine. I never told Mr. Gaston so. I told Mr. Gaston this morning that I never said to him anything about-DeCosmos' dinner being spoiled at the .Colonial, and Gaston admitted I had not. I spoke to Mr. DeCosmos in my room about the Baynes Sound property. The object of his visit to my room was to seo the ore and coal from the Baynes Sound mine. Charles Elliott Anderson, sworn,— It was a few days after my return to Victoria from New Westminster, where I had gone on account of Messrs. Clarke, Cooper, Dupont and Bulkley, I happened to be passing by the Standard office. Mr. DeCosmos was there. As I came up they were speaking about my having been up to New Westminster about the iron. They asked me how Texada was, I said I believed it was all right as far as I was concerned. Mr. DeCosmos spoke in a sarcastic way about Mr. Dupont, and said, I thought, damn him—that was all he said. I considered this was on account of Mr. Dupont having been appointed here against his wishes. I considered that Mr. DeCosmos was annoyed at Mr. Dupont having anything to do with the Island. After this I told Dupont that Mr. DeCosmos was annoyed with him for interfering on the Island. I considered it would have been the same if Mr. Dupont had interfered on any other Island. I went to pre-empt on behalf of Messrs. Bulkley, Dupont, Clarke, Cooper and Ker. Mr. Edmonds stated that all he could do was to take our papers and write across them that we could pre-empt if we did not interfere with those already pre-empted. I made a tracing of the plan in the office which I gave to Mr. Dupont. I never had any other conversation with Mr. DeCosmos on Texada Island matters. Commission adjourned to Saturday morning, the 18th instant, at New Westminster. 40 itoyal Commission—Texada Island, 1874 Thursday, 16th. April, 1874.—Private Sitting. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Commissioners held a private sitting, to examine John Machar, Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson's late book-keeper. John Machar, sworn,— I have been in Victoria about twenty-four hours. I came by the steamer " Enterprise" last night. I came from New Westminster. I was over-night at New Westminster. I came to New Westminster on Tuesday afternoon. I am book-keeper for Moody, Dietz and Nelson. I have been so between five and six months, as near as I can remember. I brought the whole books up to a thorough accountant's system to 31st March; they were some ten months behind when I got them. They consist of Ledger, Journal, Cash-Book and Bill-Book. The old books had certain entries, which I am not quite certain they understood themselves —they were not properly kept. I did not understand all the entries myself. I am a professional accountant. As to some of the entries, the partners themselves could not give me the information necessary to put the books into proper shape. The entries were kept in what are called "blotters." They had them. The old books, from which I made out the accounts, are still there. There was a man there before I went, who was paid for being a book-keeper, but did not do it, and could not. Mr. Rithet, the agent of the firm, took me up there. I went up to Burrard Inlet about the 6th November. Mr. Chambers was the nominal bookkeeper before I went up. I have never seen him. I have had a very hard five months at it. There was a good deal of excitement about the Texada iron, when I was there. I did not hear much about it till the Commission commenced, about a month ago. There was a good deal of discussion amongst the men, and Moody was a good deal condemued by them for not giving Ms evidence in a straightforward manner. I found in the daj'-book, blotter, and cash-book, certain entries to debit of the "Iron Mine Company." There were no entries in the ledger. I made the account myself. I entered up the account, "The Iron Mine Company in account with Moody and Company." There was a debit of about $1,400 to that account. Harry Trim's name is mentioned, as paid so much for something done. There were several other names, but I can't mention them just now. The term, "outfit," is mentioned in the books in connection with the iron mine. The impression on my mind, and on the minds of the men was, that there was something wrong on account of the way in which Moody gave his evidence. Moody is a man I think dishonest. The following men, I think, can give you some information: John McDonald, George W. Haynes, George Cole—these are connected with Moody's establishment—John Deighton, George Dingman. A man named Springer is in charge of the books; he is no accountant; he was under me. J. C. Hughes is kept about the office; he is thought to be able to butter the ships' captains; that is what he is paid for; he does nothing else. I have not settled with the firm yet; I have not got paid, so I can't say I have left them. I came down last night to try and get a settlement, The firm has no money at the Inlet. 1 struck the balance due me before I left, but I did not get the money. As soon as 1 get the money, I leave their service. As soon as it was understood that the Royal Commission was going there, the impression on my mind was, that it was not advisable that I should be there. That was the first intimation I had of going or leaving their service. On Monday morning last, Moody came up to me, and said it was not necessary to continue the books any longer, and that I might consider my services at an end, or words to that effect. He stated no reason, and I asked none, because I knew I would not get it. He did not allow me a month's pay on dismissing me. He wanted to pay me just what he thought fit. I told nim I thought my services were worth $150 per month, and he thought $75. Moody discharged me by saying he did not require my services any longer. I did 88 Vic, Royal Commission—Texada Island. 41 not get ten minutes' notice. Moody gave me a draft for $230 94, on Welch, Rithet and Company, and paid me $25 cash; and I said if the draft was honored, it would be all right, and I would be glad to get away out of the country. The draft has not yet been honored. I told Moody I would leave the country, but I did not promise. That draft will not be honored if I do not leave the country, I believe. Moody did not tell me that the draft would not be honored if I did not leave the country, but that was my impression. Commissioners directed the Secretary to subpoena Mr. John Machar for Saturday, the 18th instant, at 10 a.m., at New Westminster. Subpoena issued and served, in accordance with the above instructions. 17th April, 1874. By order of the Commissioners, Secretary issued subpoenas to the following parties, for 10 a. m. on Monday, the 20th instant: George Dingman, John Macdonald, George W. Haynes, George Cole, and for Tuesday, the 21st April, at 10 a. m., John Deighton. Saturday, 18th April, 1874.—11th Day. Commission met at New Westminster. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—The Hon. Attorney-General, Mr. Robson. By direction of the Commissioners, the Secretary read aloud the evidence of John Machar, taken on the previous Thursday, iu Victoria. John Machar, summoned as a witness, was called by name three times at the door of the Court House, by the Sheriff, and did not answer. Witnesses sworn and examined,—Hugh Nelson, J. C. Hughes, S, P. Moody. Hugh Nelson,— Shortly after Chambers left, Machar was employed. After the fire, I was informed that Machar was drunk—about two months ago. Since that, I received news from Moody that Machar had been on a spree for several days, and that they could not retain a man of that kind in their employment, or words to that effect. When I came to New Westminster, last Tuesday, Machar called at our office in Front street. He was then three parts drunk. He told me about his having settled, and about bis being discharged. He said he had settled with Moody at the rate of $75 per mouth, but he thought that was not enough. I told him he had better go to bed, get sober, if he could, and call on me in the morning. He stated he had been a valuable servant to us, and had put our books in proper order. I said we were quite satisfied with his work, and said, " Cannot you give up "drinking?" He said he could not, I told him I would give him a letter to Mr. Rithet, in Victoria, who had employed him. I posted a letter to Mr. Rithet; in that letter I told Mr. Rithet he had been settled with at $75 per month; I told him to allow him more, if he thought fit. He came in the morning, and told me he had no money beyond his order, and I gave him $5. On arriving at Burrard Inlet, I made enquiries, and found that Mr. Moody had settled with Mr. Machar for $85 per month. The morning Machar left, he was still affected by drink; in fact, he was dismissed for drunkenness. I know nothing of his leaving the country. I heard, through Mr. Rithet, that he was going to leave the country. Books of the company were produced and examined. 4£ Royal Commission—Texada Island 1874 These are the only entries touching on the Texada mine; the whole debit to 31st March, is $1,395 51. The amount spoken of as being paid to steamer "Isabel," for going to Burrard Inlet, was never paid; the agent of steamer and Moody, Dietz aud Nelson forgot it. We have been charged since the evidence in Court. The "Isabel" is owned by Starr Brothers. The amount expended to 31st December, 1873, is $619 30. J. C. Hughes, sworn,— Tenth March, 1874, cash ($10) paid to J. C. Hughes, was for expenses for a trip from Burrard Inlet to town on iron business—to get certificate of improvement on my pre-emption claim, standing in my name on Texada Island. September 18th, 1873, $32 paid to H. V. Edmonds. The reason the expenses were charged against the iron mine was, that the pre-emption was for the benefit of the iron company. Moody, Dietz and Nelson were interested in this pre-emption. The pre-emption is one of those taken up for the company. I don't know who constitute the company. Moody told me when H. Trim discovered the mine, that he (Moody) was desirous that I should take up a pre-emption claim; I suppose, because he was an American citizen, and could not take one up himself. Moody told me there would be a company formed, and that I should be one of the company. He did not tell me the names of the company, and he has never told me the whole of them, and I don't know who he was going to take in. I was satisfied he would act fairly with me, and asked no questions who the'other parties were to be. I understood at the time Nelson, Dietz, and Moody were to be of the company. I never heard from Moody, Dietz and Nelson that any members of the late or present Government had an interest in the mine. Mr. Moody told me ho had asked Mr. Walkem to take an interest, but he declined. The information was a mere casual remark of Mr. Moody's; it made no difference to me whether Mr. Walkem was in or out of it. I know, on the trip to Texada, Mi*. Walkem threw cold water on the matter, and told me he thought, until labor became much cheaper, the speculation would be of no account. I think I pre-empted alone at the time. I think my pre-emption was made in July. I think five parties preempted in June. I asked my brother to pre-empt in the same way as I was holding my own. It was a thing I felt would, at some time, be valuable. I think it is more than likely I wrote out all five pre-emption papers. I cannot tell at whose instance the other men pre-empted. I write out a great number of preemption papers. Major's application is in my handwriting; the application of H. W. Hughes, H. Trim, J. A. Cottrill, and Edward Trim, are in my handwriting. I know Henry Smith; he has worked for us for two years; he was at the Inlet two days ago. I know Thomas Wilson; I do not know whether he is in our employ or not, now; he is living at the Inlet. I do not know that H. Smith was asked by me to pre-empt; the application is in my handwriting. C. G. Major, I think, pre-empted at my suggestion; I advised him to pre-empt, because I thought it would be a good thing. Mr. Major and I had a conversation, and he seemed willing enough to take it up. I do not know that he was to be one of the company formed—that was to be for Mr. Moody to say. I told Major to take up a preemption, and see Moody about it when he came in. I don't recollect what arguments I used. I don't know whether H. Trim or Moody first told me of the discovery; I was told, when H. Trim first came down, about the discovery. The steamer " Cariboo-Fly " went up to Texada Island twice. Messrs. Walkem and DeCosmos came up in steamer "Cariboo-Fly." I came up with them. I can't tell the object of taking them up. He did not tell me his object in offering DeCosmos and Walkem an interest in the mine. I can't tell why no charge is made for steamer going to Texada. There was no understanding that all expenses should be charged to iron mine company. 88"Vie. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 4§ S. P. Moody, re-called,— I gave Mr. DeCosmos some ore, and a sketch of the Texada mine, which he took with him. I did not give Mr. DeCosmos any instructions. It was at his^ request I gave him this. This sketch was made by Hargreave3. He asked me to put up some specimens of the iron ore/to take with him to Canada. He did not say what he was going to do with them. He did not say he was going to sell the mine; he had no authority to sell. I should think there were forty or fifty pounds of ore; I did not weigh it, I am not aware of any steps being taken to get the ore passed through the States without being opened. I placed the ore in a box, and left it at Welch Rithet's, and told DeCosmos where it was. I proposed to give DeCosmos a sketch of the mine, and I had it made for him. The' object of Har- greaves was to see how much ground the iron covered. The ore came down a long time ago from the island—a long time before DeCosmos ever went there,— and not specially for DeCosmos. My object in giving these things to DeCosmos, was to give him an idea of the extent of the iron mine, and to sell it if he could. There was no price fixed for the sale. He had no authority-to sell at all. The impression was, that he could find out what the mine would sell for, and let me know. He had been talking iron for some time, and that was why I chose him. This was the last time DeCosmos left. He had taken specimens before. I think he got them himself from the island. I remember the telegram Dalby got from DeCosmos last Fall. DeCosmos wrote me from Victoria, before he left last Fall for Ottawa, asking me if the parties who held the iron mine would sell; there was nothing else in the letter, that I remember. I never answered the letter. The telegram stated, as near as I can recollect, " That he had not received a letter from "Moody." Dalby informed me of the contents of the telegram. I cannot find the telegram or letter from Dalby, giving me the information. Dalby, in his letter, stated that I had better write DeCosmos. I never wrote to DeCosmos. lam writing to Dalby every two weeks or so. I do not know when I first saw Dalby, after receiving the telegram. I don't know if I was in Victoria about the 1st November. I don't kuow if I was in Victoria in December; I did not spend my Christmas there. I think I was in Victoria in January. Mr. Dalby has never had a conversation with me about DeCosmos being entrusted with the sale of the mine. I have heard Dalby state that he thought the mine would be sold for $150,000. I don't agree with that. I don't think it is worth more than the money we have spent upon it. I did not put any price upon it. Hughes was present when Trim gave me the first information of the discovery of the iron deposit on Texada Island. I have no advices from Mr. DeCosmos since he left, I have never heard from DeCosmos since he left. I know nothing about Dalby's statement to Mr. Morton. Part of the books were kept by Mr. Machar, and some of the entries were made by Mr. Chambers. My instructions with regard to the entries were, that any expenditure made for the iron mine was to be charged to the " Iron Mine Company." We did not charge the trips of the steamer to Texada Island to the "Iron Mine." The "Iron'Mine Company" includes none of the five companies, viz., Malaspina, Texada, Gulf of Georgia, Dominion Company, and Madeline Company. I do not consider my interest in these companies of much account. My principal interest is in the pre-emptions. I never said to Captain Devereux "That I had asked "Nelson to accompany the party on the second trip up to the island, but he had "refused, because he thought it dishonorable, or words to that effect; and said I "would be damned if I would have any such scruples about it." I did ask Nelson to go, and he refused. I never spoke to Devereux about Nelson going up. I had no direct conversation with DeCosmos during the trip, about the sale of the mine. I do not recollect DeCosmos speaking about the land being of no value in the market, because it was only held by pre-emption. I will swear that I never heard DeCosmos say so; he did not say so in my hearing. I can't say that DeCosmos, in his conversation with me, appeared to attach much value to the mine. DeCosmos said when the title to the mine was obtained, he would like to have the selling Royal Commission-^Texada Island. 1874 of it. He made the remark, I think, once or twice. The last time I was at Victoria I swear that he did. I don't remember his saying so on our way up to the island. My answer was, that before anything could be done in that respect, I must get a good title. I told him when we could get a good title we would communicate with him. I remarked, I thought the mine ought to be worth $150,000; I Avould be glad if he could sell it for that price, and I would willingly allow him a good round commission. I said, "I believe I would be willing to pay him a good " commission, if it could be sold for that price." This conversation occurred about two days before DeCosmos left for Ottawa. Dalby and I had talked the price of the mine over. I would take one-half of that price now. I have not instructed DeCosmos at all. I have not informed DeCosmos of any change in my opinion of the value of the mine. I have no information about his placing the sale of the mine in the hands of Mr. Sproat, He did not speak to me about having mentioned the matter to Mr. Sproat. I offered DeCosmos and Walkem an interest in the mine. I said to Mr. Walkem when a company was formed, he could have an interest if he wished. He declined, saying he did not care for one. This was on the way down from Texada Island. I do not know to which of them I offered it first. I offered to DeCosmos in same terms; he declined. I don't think he gave any reason at all. I can't say he spoke . depreciatingly at any time of the mine. DeCosmos did not appear surprised when I put the price at $150,000. I don't recollect he made any remark. I knew he was going to start in a day or two to Ottawa. He did not say he was going to Europe. This conversation was since the general election. I don't recollect the proposal of selling the property to the Canadian Government for railway purposes, was mentioned between us. I think DeCosmos mentioned the Canada Railway as likely to make a demand for this. J. L. Crimp is.in the Malaspina Company; Mr. Dalby suggested his name. I think Hughes was the party who drew up the application. Dalby made the remark about the sale of the mine for $150,000 in his office in his store; there were two or three other parties present. By Mr. Walkem,— My conversation with DeCosmos in March was general; to try what he could do with the mine. Mr. DeCosmos asked for the ore, and I proposed the plan. Mr. DeCosmos wanted to see what he could do with the mine in Canada. I recollect having a conversation with Mr. Robson, in Victoria, just after giving my first evidence. I came from Court, and met Mr. Robson on Thursday, 26th March, near the Colonist office. I spoke to him, and told him I did not wish him to question me and bother me when I was giving my evidence, as I was sick that day, and one side of my head was swelling up, aud I could not hear. He said he thought there was something the matter with me, as I looked ill. I told him I was going to give all the information I knew about the thing without being bothered. He said our political influence was a good deal, and our firm had an iron heel on his neck, and we were friends of the Government and trying to bolster them up and crush him, and he was bound not to submit to it; that our member from Burrard Inlet had most damnably betrayed his confidence, and he was bound to crush our influence. He said he presumed we did not know we were doing him that injury, but, nevertheless, it was a fact. I told him we had been friends of his; I did not think Hughes, our member, had betrayed his confidence. I told him I did not think we should be enemies of the Government because he was. By Mr. Robson,— I came into your office and called you out, saying I wished to speak to yon. I remember a conversation with you in your office, just after the appointment of the Commission, when Mr. Higgins was present, somewhere about the middle of March. I came into your office^and took hold of the Texada Island Circular; it 38 Fie. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 45 was in print; and sat down and said that circular was a falsehood. I believe the circular produced is similar to the one I saw. Mr. Robson remarked, if it was false, it had beaten the two candidates it was intended for, viz., Homer and Dalby. I believe Mr. Robson told me he had nothing to do with getting up the circular; he did not know anything about the contents until it was printed. I said I thought ■the circular had been got up at Burrard Inlet. I recollect saying I was perfectly prepared to go before the Commission and state all that I knew, as I had nothing to conceal in the matter. I don't recollect your saying that you were glad of that, as you would be able to pursue the enquiry without injury to me. I think you said you wished to be personal friends of mine and Dalby's, though politically opposed. You made a remark that Homer was a personal friend of yours, but our candidate; and, if elected, could be used by DeCosmos, and would assist us at Ottawa; and if Dalby were elected, he would be with the Government here. Cunningham was a man DeCosmos could not use. You did not say that, from Mr. Homer's position in my employ, he could not act independently. I swearyou did not say this in my presence. 1 told you that I thought you got the circular up, and you denied it. I never said that you first made a charge in the paper and then drew up the circular, and afterwards, as a member of the House, drew attention to the charge in the paper. I do recollect your overtaking me in Pandora street, a day or two before the conversation in the office last alluded to. You told me you had been credibly informed that the names of DeCosmos, Walkem, and Beaven were up on Texada Island as pre-emptors. I then told him that Joe Spratt had told, me that Captain Clarke had told him that the names of DeCosmos, Walkem, and Beaven were up as pre-emptors on the island, and I told you that I saw Captain Clarke and enquired if he told Joe Spratt. Captain Clarke said he had not told Joe Spratt, nor was he ever on the islaud. [From the Daily Colonist, Feb. 9M.J THE TEXADA ISLAND OEE GRAB ! y LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEEPLY INVOLVED I DeCOSMOS' " SUCCESSFUL » MISSION TO LONDON I Early last summer Mr. Amor DeCosmos, whom custom requires us to dub honorable, accompanied by Mr. Walkem, William Dalby, and by several other parties whose names will be soon forthcoming, procecdod to Tcxhacla Island lying in tho Gulf of Georgia, in Moody, Dietz & Nelson's steamboat Cariboo-Fly. Hero they took possession of a rich and extensive lead of magnetic iron ore, in the names of the following parties: B. H. Wilson, an attache of Moody, Dietz & Nelson's mills. Win. Dalby, Mayor of Victoria, and brother-in-law of the senior partner in Moody, Dietz & Nelson's mills. J. C. Brown, editor and part proprietor of the Herald, Government organ at New Westminster. Win, Robertson, partner of Wm. Dalby. T. J. Mills (Bowden), a brother-in-law of the senior proprietor of Moody, Dietz & Nelson's mills. C. M. Chambers, at that time book-keeper at Moody. Diet/. & Nelson's mills. J. Moftit. " Edward Trim'. •J. C. Hughes, clerk in Moody, Dietz k Nelson's mills, a member of the Local Parliament and tho seconder of the Reply to the Address brought down at the opening of the present session. N. W. Hughes, brother of the above, editor and part proprietor of the Now Westminster Herald. Henry Trim. J, A. Cotterell, logger for Moody, Dietz & Nelson, 46 • Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 These claims were all taken up and located under the Pre-emption Law, although down to tho present time some of those whoso names appear above have never been on the ground. These pre-emption claims were recorded at the Land Office by Mr. Boavcn, Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem acting as agents for the pre-emptors; and at tho sumo time another party, who applied to record another lead on the same Island, were refused tho privilege by Mr. Beaven! A short time afterwards Mr. DeCosmos went to Ottawa. Ho bore with him a Powcr-of-Attorney from tho prc-omptors of the lead to sell it for §150,000. Rumor says that Mr. DeCosmos offered the lead to the Canadian Government, then represented by Sir John A. Macdonald, for that sum as the price of his support, and that negotiations were pending Mrhon the Ministry resigned and Mackenzie came into power. These negotiations are supposed to have been tho concession referred to by '•' Plano- tus " in a telegram to the Mainland Guardian, shortly after tho Mackenzie Government came into power. Be this as it may, DeCosmos, perhaps fearing exposure by Mr. Mackenzie, instantly became an ardent admirer of that gentleman's Government, and distinguished himself by cringing subserviency to the now Ministry on all occasions, although down to the very moment of the resignation of tho Macdonald Ministry ho prophecied its support by 30 majority and was noted for the insolence with which ho bore himself towards the Reformers and their chiefs. From Ottawa on the 17th of November last Mr. DeCosmos went to England on his ostensible mission to procure an Imperial loan for the Dry Dock. JFis real mission ivas to float the Texhada Island,Iron Company's Stock on the London market! Through information which has reached us and others from London wo arc enabled to state that the stock is now being offered for sale in London by Mr. Sproat, and that it was placed in his hands by Mr. DeCosmos!! After reading the above statement of facts the independent elector who may havo pledged to vote for Dalby on Thursday will probably pause before recording his vote for that gentleman. He will see that Mr. Dalby has the strongest possible reasons for entering the Local House:—1st.—To give the Government who have treated him so generously a servile support; 2nd—To gain a seat in the House to vote for the confirmation of that outrageous transfer; 3rd—To complete tho circle of tho ring which has been rudely broken by the defeat of Mr. Homer at New Westminster. Electors of Victoria, Lake, and Saanich! will you voto for a member of this ring, who, having sold himself, is equally prepared to sell you ? Commission adjourned to Monday, at 10 a. m. Monday,'20th April, 1874.—12tu Day. Commission met at New Westminster. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, II. P. P. Crease, J. II. Gray. Present—Hon. Attorney-General, Mr. Robson. Witnesses sworn aud examined—6reo)v/e. Washington Hayncs, George Cole, John Macdonald, George Dingman, Harry ' Trim, Adam Watson, Senior, II. V. Edmonds. George Washington Hayncs, sworn,— I know nothing about the formation of the iron mining company, except what I have heard since the Commission sat. I have not any interest in the Texada Island Mming Company. I am not a British subject. I knew of the discovery very soon after it was made known. I cannot say who told me first. I don't kuow what steps were taken by the discoverers to take up the land. I don't know who are interested. I do not know with what understanding these parties took up the land. I never beard of there being any attempt to sell the iron mine, till after the appointment of the Commission was reported in the papers. I never 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 47 heard that an attempt had been made to sell the mine in the Canadian or English markets till after the Commission sat. I know that land was pre-empted, and men sent up to the pre-emptions. I was asked if I would wish an interest in the company when formed. I said, no; I did not consider it of any value to me. Since .that I have had nothing said to me. I was at Burrard Inlet when "Cariboo- Fly" came up with Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem. I only heard they were going for a trip. I never heard it suggested that they were to get any benefit, or Messrs. Moody, Dietz, and Nelson, or any one else, for their going there. I never heard Messrs. Moody, Dietz, or Nelson state that Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem were to have any interest in the mine, one way or another. I heard several conversations about election time, of this kind ; and the first I ever heard of a suggestion that they might have an interest in it, was when some one said, " they were "likely to have a good thing of it;" "they were not going up there for nothing;" and "they knew what they were going up there for." I cannot say who made these observations. I think I heard these observations about a week or so after the " Cariboo-Fly " returned. No reason whatever was assigned for these remarks; it was just a mere speculation. I never heard Mr. Moody say why he took them up. I don't think I formed an opinion ; if I did, I had no reason for it. I heard the steamer was going to Texada, and they had an invitation for a pleasure trip. There were two logging parties on board. There was no m3'stery at all about the steamer going to Texada, so far as I know. The whole conversation partook of the nature of gossip, in the same way that everything is talked of round the mills. On my oath, I do not know of any of the members of the Government being connected with the Texada mine in any way. On my oath, I never heard a trustworthy person about the mill, or at any other place, say that he did know. I never was given to understand that any member of the Government was to have an interest in the mine when the title was obtained and the company formed, or a .commission for selling the mines. I never heard any mention of DeCosmos being entrusted with the sale of the mine until after the news appeared in the papers. I never heard anybody at the mills then say they believed it. It was -looked upon as an electioneering dodge. My opinion is, that what is considered a lie at any other time, is not considered a lie at election time. George Cole, sworn,— I am not interested in any of the Texada iron mining companies, nor in any pre-emption on the island. Of my own personal knowledge, I know nothing about' them. I have been at the mills nearly seven years. I was there'iu August last. I recollect the " Cariboo-Fly" coming up with Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem on board. Mr. Nelson was not there. Moody was showing them round. They went away on "Cariboo-Fly," and came back again. They stayed at the Inlet about a day or so. It was reported that they were going to Jarvis Inlet by way of Texada Island. I thought at the time they were going on a sporting tour. I saw them when they came back again. The trip was talked about at the mill. I don't know what was said, now. I knew the man Machar. I can't say I ever saw him drunk. I know he was off duty several days. I could not say whether lie was drunk or sober. I had no business with him. He was there but a short time. I did not hear any observations about the trip till about election time. There were some observations similar to those in the papers, viz., thai the members of the Government were interested in the mines. I can't say who said so. Some spoke as if they believed it; others, again, spoke of it as if they did not know much about it, I have heard a great many things said similar to this: "That Moody was a "sharp, shrewd fellow, and was not taking the Ministers about for nothing;" that "Moody must have had some object in taking them up there." I never heard that DeCosmos was entrusted with the sale of the mine until I saw it in the papers. I never heard any one say so, after that. I never heard any of the pre-emptora express any opinion as to the object of the visit of the Ministers to the rainy, 48 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 John McDonald, sworn,— I have been at the Inlet since January, 1869. I was there last Summer, when the " Cariboo-Fly" came up with two members of the Government. I am not interested in anyway in Texada Island. I do not know the object of Moody in taking the two Ministers to Texada. My own opinion was, they were going on a pleasure excursion. I don't think I heard any opinion expressed on the subject. I do not recollect any conversation on the subject. I keep to myself a good deal, and don't mix much with the men. I do not know anythiug about the organization of the company, nor have I heard anythiug. I never had auy conversation with Mr. Machar upon the subject, and I do not kuow why he gave my name. I am on confidential terms with Moody and Nelson. I only know Walkem and DeCosmos by sight. I do not kuow from them that DeCosmos and Walkem, or any other member of the Government has any interest in the mines, and if I may be allowed to give my opinion, I don't think any body else knows. I don't think there is anything in it. I think Moody would have told me, if it had been so. As far as I know, I am satisfied there is nothing in it. Moody told me the company was to be formed, and he expected it to be very rich, as the ore was very rich. I never heard him say what the value of the iron was. He did not tell me who were to be in it. He told me some of the names. He did not ask me to be one of the company. Moody never told me that DeCosmos or Walkem, or any member of the late or present Government, were to form part of auy company on the island. Moody did not ask me to pre-empt, as he kuew I had another land claim. I couldn't see why Moody thought the company was to be so rich. I thought one hundred and sixty acres of timber land worth more. After the statement appeared in the papers about members of the Government being interested, I must have heard some statements about it. I know nothing more. George Dingman, sworn,— I don't know anything at all about it. I was at the Inlet last August. I was the ferryman. I was about as intimate with Machar as anybody. "I never told him anything about it, as he knew nothing, and I know nothing. I was there at Burrard lulet when Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem were there. ' I had the pleasure of carrying them round. I took them up the Inlet, round the different logging camps, and when they went up in the steamer, I thought they were going on the same kind of excursion. I saw them when they came back again. I don't think I took them about again. I. may have taken them across. I did not hear any remarks about their trip at that time; in fact, I don't think any one thought there was anything strange about it. It is a very common thing for people to come out there to be entertained. I saw Machar; he went to Victoria tho same steamer I did. He called himself tight; he could walk, and speak a great deal more than if he Avas sober. I suppose he was drunk for a week before he left. About election time, I heard some say that they thought the Government was interested; and others, again, thought not. Men belonging to both parties, expressed an opinion, that members of the Government had an interest—not men of prominent position, principally working men. Those who thought there was something in it, came out with it; those who thought there was nothing in it, had nothing to say. I never heard any expression of opinion as to Moody's motives in taking the Government members to Texada. I have never, during all the conversations, heard one serious opinion expressed on the subject. In fact, no opinion that impressed itself upon my mind as being-worthy of belief. All this took place, as far as I recollect, after the Colonist circular was issued. I saw the circular myself. I do not know, from anything 1 have heard, know, or believe, that DeCosmos or AValkem, or any member of the Government, is in any way connected with the Texada iron mine. 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 49 Harry Trim, sworn,— I was the discoverer of the iron on Texada Island. I can't say whether it was three or four years ago this coming summer. I reported the discovery last spring to Mr. Moody, about the latter end of April or beginning of May. Moody was at his wharf in front of the store. J. C. Hughes was with him I think. I kept the discovery some time a secret. I took some iron ore down to a man to assay it, but he neglected it. I was not in Moody's employ at the time I gave him the information. I had left his employ about seven or eight days. I was not in Moody's employ at the time of making the discovery. I was fishing. Before I gave information I had been exploring for timber for about forty clays. I was again in Moody's employ for a short time, which made in all about two months. I made the discovery known to Moody because he had an assay office. I thought I would bring some ore down and get it assayed. They said they tested it aud I asked Moody to join me. I wanted to know how to get the land to hold it. Nothing more was said about taking up the land till the "Cariboo-Fly" came. .1 left the ore there and he said some time or another he would come aud look at it. There was very little said then. I went back to Texada Island and the " Fly " came to head of Island where I was fishing. Nelson, Van Bremer, Moody, Watson and myself, went and examined the iron ore, put in a blast and took out some ore, and returned to head of the Island. We had a talk as to which way we could take the land up best. They said they would see which was the best way, and for me to come down pretty soon to the Inlet. There was no positive agreement at that time that they were to go in with me. I went home and went exploring for iron to see if I could find more. I gave Mr. Nelson power, verbal before two witnesses, to take up land for me and sign my name to the necessary application for me, and when John Hall came up in a canoe with the papers I went with him to stake out the land. The pre-emptions on Texada Island were made for H. Hughes, J. A. Cottrill, Moftatt and H. Trim. There was no arrangement at this time about forming the Company. There was an interval of eight days or two weeks between the departure of the "Fly" and the arrival of John Hall. John Hall returned to the Inlet and left me on the Island. I went to Burrard Inlet with a load of iron ore. I arrived at the Inlet with it on 1st July. Moody and Nelson had asked me to take down a load of iron ore in my sloop and I did so. I don't know what they did with it. I left the management of the affair in Moody and Nelson's hands from that out. I kept my own pre-emption and the others kept theirs. Moody told me that each one should keep his pre-emption and do the improvements on it and then turn it into a Mining Company. He asked me if there was any person I wanted to take into the Company. I told him only my brother Edward. He did not tell me who were to be in it and I did not ask him. I left that to himself. I only knew that myself and my brother were to be in it. Moody said he thought he would make it into ten or twelve shares. He did not tell me who he proposed they should be. I did not learn there were fourteen or fifteen in the company. I was on the island when "Cariboo-Fly" came up with two members of the Government, about last July or first August. I did not know they were coming. I thought they came there to' fish or hunt. They did fish and huut; caught a few fish, and I and Mr. Walkem took the hound down, and shot at a deer four or five times, and didn't get him. Mr. Walkem said.it was no good his shooting, as he could not hit one. I fired, I think, four times, but did not hit the deer, as the boat was rocking. Mr. Walkem told me that was his only object in going there. It was three o'clock in the morning when we started to get the deer. We started at three in the morning, and did not get back till nine or ten a. m. We went on two other occasions. We shot two or three eagles at the head of the Island. The steamer came in during the night, and next day they stayed sporting round. Next day, they went round to iron deposit, and stopped about, shooting on the beach round Gillis' Bay, during the afternoon. I heard but very little about the iron mine. Moody showed it to 4 50 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 them, and they appeared to say but little about it; they did not appear to regard it as so very valuable. I returned to head of the island, and did not return to the Inlet. I came down some twelve or fifteen days afterwards to the Inlet with my boat. I did not bring any ore down, of any consequence, with me this time. I took some men back to represent the pre-emption claims, viz., Peter Rivers, and a man by the name of Lewis. This time I was towed up by the "Isabel." Nothing during this visit was done as to selling the mine. Nothing was said of the bearing of the visit of the members of the Government upon the mine. Moody did not tell me why he took them up. There were another lot of pre-emptions made afterwards. My brother pre-empted. I know the ground at the head of the island was taken up. I came on the island when Messrs. Dupont and Bulkley were there. I offered to show them the stakes of the pre-emptions that were taken up. They were not told that all the iron was taken up. The ground where the iron was, was all taken up before they came. They were not told that all the island was taken up. I told them that all the land that contained any iron in quantity, was taken up; but there wrere a few spots which they took up. I offered to show them our boundaries, but they declined to go to see them; they were on the beach, and declined to go and see them, saying they had seen the most of them. There were four posts to each one hundred and sixty acres. I went right down to the Inlet, and told Moody that they were there. I went to the Inlet, I think, about four or five days after they left the island. I told Moody that they had taken up ground there, and to get another man to represent the iron claims. I said they had taken up four or five pre-emptions there. I knew exactly what they had taken; I had seen their posts. Bulkley and Dupont left the same day that I got on to the island, about five or six hours after I got there. They had Indians in a canoe. I got John McDonald to go up and represent. I think he represented Moftatt. There are at this time six pre-emptions in that plot. Dupont took up land next to J. C. Hughes'. J. C. Hughes had taken up land before; and I was staking out my brother Edward's. This was some time in August. I came down to the Inlet in one day, after seeing Messrs: Dupont and Bulkley there. I don't recollect seeing Mr. Nelson at the mill. I got back to the island on Monday, 18th August, and found Dupont and Bulkley there, about eight A. m. This was the time I was towed by the " Isabel." I did not kuow that any further arrangement was to be made, until we got our title to the pre-emptions. I never knew that there had been any arrangement made for sale of mine. Moody never told me that he hoped to interest any of the members of the Government in tbe mine, nor words to that effect. Very few of the papers I ever saw. I was in Texada Island and Jarvis Inlet. When I did see the statement, that DeCosmos was to sell the mine for $150,000, I spoke to Moody about it, and he said it was all bosh. He did not tell me Mr. DeCosmos took ore and a map, or that he hoped the mine would bring $150,000. Adam Watson, Senior, sworn,— I am a member of an association on Texada Island, for mining purposes. I can't tell you if I am in more than one of them. I never pre-empted on Texada Island, or anywhere else. To my knowledge, Messrs. Walkem and DeCosmos are not liable to pay any assessments, and are not interested, directly or indirectly, on Texada Island; in fact, I know they distinctly refused. In July, I was up in the steamer in company with them, to give my opinion upon some discoveries there; and on the way back, Moody consulted with me,, whether he should make an offer of an interest in these iron deposits to Messrs. Walkem and DeCosmos, upon the same footing as the others. I said, out of courtesy, he ought; from my personal knowledge of DeCosmos, I knew he would pay his share of expenses. About Mr. Walkem, I knew nothing. He afterwards told me he had made that offer, and they had both declined; and each of the gentlemen, separately, told me the same thing, after our return to Moodyville. They said they did not wish to mix them- 83 Vic. . Royal Commission--Texada Island. 51 selves iu such matters. Mr. DeCosmos said he would try and assist us in other ways; and that if we would put a price upon the mine, he would see if it could be sold. Neither of them appeared to decline on tho ground that the mine was of little value—simply on account of their position in the country. I consulted with Mood}7, and told Mr. DeCosmo3 that, in the present state of the mine, nothing could be done. There never was a price put upon the mine. Moody told me ho had put no price upon the mine, and if he did, ho had no authority for doing it. I never stated, in Victoria or elsewhere, that the price of the mine was to be $150,000, and DeCosmos was to have the selling of it. I never said Mr. DeCosmos was employed to sell the mine. I never said there was any price put upon the mine. If I had said-any of these things, I would have lied. W. A. Robertson asked me if DeCosmos had not the selling of the mine in London. I said, no; but I added, that when the parties interested were ready, and had concluded to sell, they would likely give him the selling of it, if he wished to do so. Mr. DeCosmos was the only person who ever said that the mine could be sold—and he kept saying it. He did not, to my knowledge, say at what price it could be sold; he simply wanted the mine placed in the market, and we were not ready. I did not hear, except from the papers, that Dalby had received a telegram from DeCosmos. 1 know that DeCosmos took some ore and a map home with him. DeCosmos was always dabbling in ores, to try and do something'to develop the resources of the country. Henry Valentine Edmonds, sworn,— I am in three of the associations, for mining purposes, on Texada Island, viz., in the Gulf of Georgia, Madeline, aud Dominion Companies. Each of the companies have obtained a licence over the usual quantity of land, under the Licence Ordinance, viz., five hundred acres each, All three applications received at my office on 19th August, 1873. Mr. Dupont's application was received on 26th by me, at the office, at New Westminster. No member of tho Government, to my knowledge, has or had any interest in any of the mining companies on Texada Island—in fact, I kuow from Mr. Moody to the contrary. I was not aware, at the time of making these applications, that Mr. Dupont, or any one, was on the island. I am sure I did not kuow it, as, if I had, I should not have entered into any company in which a dispute was likely to arise. Mr. Dalby did not tell me of any possible dispute. On the 18th, the day after Moody had recorded, I said, "What have you got there?"—and he then told mo about the iron. On the 19th, I was walking clown the street, and I met Moody. He told mo they were forming another mining company on the other side of the island. He asked me, would I like to be in myself, or have one of my friends iu it? I said, "Yes; you might as well put Mr. Webster in." He said he thought that one of the other members of the company would object to Mr. Webster. I told him I would consider it over, and let him know. I considered the matter over, and went to Major's, and said that I would take an interest. Dalby and Major were engaged in making out the papers. This was the second time I saw Dalby. At one of the conversations with Moodj', he said there was plenty of room on the lead for two or three more companies, and Webster could form one himself if he liked. Subsequently, Webster came to me, and told me Moody had mentioned the thing to him, and he was s;oing to form two companies, and asked if I would mind my name being in, andl consented. There were no special reasons for recording the pre emptions. on Texada Island the day after the application was granted. As a matter of fact,. • an applicant may get his claim recorded the same day that the application is granted. I never refuse to record a man's land, because he has staked the land off" before, he gets leave to pre-empt. It is the custom to record on the same day that leave is granted to pre-empt. After the first batch of pre-emptions, I received a telegram from Mr. Beaven, stating that Texada Island was not in my district; but this was a mistake, and was afterwards set straight. I received no other 62 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 communication from the Government about Texada Island. I had not any instructions from Mr. Beaven, on the point of recording, and I know, from my experience of seven years, that that was always the custom in the Land Office. Records of office produced. As a rule, I do not ask if parties have put in their stakes, or not, before making the record. I would not grant a right to pre-empt land, if I knew another man had a previous right to the same piece of land. The reason I gave a conditional pre-emption to Dupont was, that though I thought the land was already taken up, his agent, Mr. Anderson, endeavored to explain to me by the map, for two days, that the application to pre-empt did not interfere with any land already taken up, and I had not positive means of showing that it did. All conflicting applications I refer to the Commissioner. If I knew that the land applied for had already been taken up, I should refuse to grant [conditional leave, or any leave at all, to pre-empt, but I should refer the matter to the Chief Commissioner. Commission adjourned to 10 a. m. to-morrow. At request of Mr. Robson, subpoenaed Mr. John A. Webster, to appear before the Commission to-morrow at 10 a. m. Tuesday, 21st April, 1874.—13th Day. Commission met at New Westminster. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Hon. Mr. Walkem, Mr. Robson. Witnesses sworn and examined—John Deighton, John Alfred Webster. John Deighton, sworn,— I have seen Machar once or twice. I am not personally acquainted with him, and I guess he is not with me. I had a conversation- with him in the ferryboat, for about half-an-hour once, and also before he left by the " Enterprise," last Wednesday. I never had any conversation with DeCosmos and Walkem about the iron mine. He was drunk when I saw him going on board the " Enterprise," with a bottle of whiskey in each hand. I have only heard of the Texada Island mine through the papers. I do not know that DeCosmos and Walkem, or any member of the late and present Government, were interested in any way in the iron mine, except what I have heard through outside conversations. The idea was, it was a swindle. The people thought there were companies getting a good deal too much land, while others could not get auy. For myself, I pre-empted land on Burrard Inlet some six or seven years ago, and have not got it yet. I don't belong to the ring; I guess I had better join it as soon as I can. People did not seem to say that members of the Government were interested in the iron mine. They seemed to think that favoritism was shown in giving some people too much land. In fact, I am too sure of it. Favorites of the Government get anything they want; others cannot get anything—at least, I know I can't. I do not know of any improper proceedings with regard to the land, to lead me to believe that the holders of it were treated as favorites. I remember the Government party being at Burrard Inlet, but I did not hear it talked about; in fact, I heard nothing said about it. I dont know anything about the matter under investigation. I had no conversation with Machar upon the subject. John Alfred Webster, sworn,— I am a member of two associations for the purpose of mining on Texada Island, viz., in Madeline and Dominion. I am not a member of the Texada $8 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 53 company. The Texada company was, I think, formed before the two in which I am interested. 1 do not know the parties who form the Texada Company. I don't know who promoted the Texada Company. I know nothing about the pre-emption claims on Texada Island, with a view to iron mines. I have read a great deal about them in the newspapers. I have had very little conversation about them. I do not know anything in connection with them which would lead me to believe that the members of the Government had shown the parties any favoritism. I don't think I have read Moody's evidence. I never made a remark that Moody was foolish not to have made a clean breast of it, and let the Government members defend themselves, nor any remark to that effect, for I know 'nothing about it. I was not prevented from being a member of Texada Company. I never understood that any members of the Government were in these companies, or that they were represented by anybody in any company. I did not know they had anything to do with it. I had heard that DeCosmos was to sell the mine. I think that Mr. Hardisty told me that the mine was to be sold by DeCosmos for $150,000. I think he got his information from the paper. It is quite possible it might not have been Hardisty. It was after it was in the newspaper, this discussion came np. He did not say he thought so—it was merely a discussion. I have never had any conversation with any one who has a claim on Texada Island, about the sale of the mine by DeCosmos, or any member of the Government being interested. Commissioners declined to allow a full copy of Machar's evidence to be published, as the witness did not appear to his subpoena, to stand an examination. Mr. Walkem asked, on behalf of the public, when the Commission would close, and what steps Mr. Robson proposed to take next? Mr. Robson stated, that he wished to call a few more witnesses in Victoria; but he thought two days' sitting would be sufficient. The Commissioners stated, that they thought that Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem, and Robson ought to have an opportunity of giving their evidence, and stated, that they must avoid doing anything that would, in any way, have a semblance of burking this enquiry; and stated, that, though they were paid for this enquiry, they were still as anxious as any one to close it, and that they could not, at present, state what course they would adopt. Commission adjourned to Monday, 27th April, at 11.30 a. m. April 24th.—Re-subpoenaed Herbert Gaston,-R. P. Rithet, W. II. Oliver, at the request of Mr. Bobson, to appear before the Royal Commission on Monday, 27th April, at 11.30 a. m. Monday, 27th Afiul, 1874.—14th Day. Commission met in Victoria, at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, II. P. P. Crease, J. II. G ray. Present—Mr. Mason (for Hon. Attorney-General): subsequently, Hon. Attorney-General; Mr. Bobson. Witnesses examined— W. II. Oliver (re-called), Herbert Gaston (re-called),. B. P. Bithet (re-called). IV. If. Oliver, re-called,— Mr. Gaston wished me to come into the Avitness-box, to see if he could not refresh my memory upon some points. 54 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 By Mr. Gaston,— I do recollect telling you not to give my name, nor draw me into the witness-box. Also, after you had been imperatively ordered to give up the name.of your informant, I also asked you not to give my name, if you could avoid it. I boarded at the Colonial Hotel, at the time mentioned, after my return from Nanaimo. The boat arrived early in the afternoon. I cannot say where I dined that evening. I don't recollect seeing Mr. DeCosmos in the Colonial at dinner, that day. I saw Mr. DeCosmos in front of the Standard office. Herbert Gaston, re-called,— It was close to five p. m., when the' "Douglas " arrived. I went home, and returned to town about seven p. m., and saw Mr. Oliver at the Colonial, and commenced talking about Baynes Sound,mine, and, incidentally, this matter came up, and the impression left on my mind was, that it occurred at the Colonial Hotel. DeCosmos got very excited, and paced the floor, and went to the bar and got some liquor; and the waiter asked if he should take the dinner away, and he (DeCosmos) said, "No! damn the dinner!" and went out, DeCosmos came and sat down opposite to Mr. Oliver, who was eating his dinner at the Colonial. Another person said to me that it was nothing strange, as DeCosmos was dyspeptic, and could not eat when ho was excited. Subsequently, I heard that Oliver had been to DeCosmos' room, to look at some iron ore. R. P. Rithet, re-called,— Machar, when he came from New Westminster, did not bring me a letter of instructions from Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson, only a letter of advice, that they had drawn an order on us. The order was for $230 40. The letter, among other things, advised us of the draft: the rest of the letter had nothing to do with Machar. Tho letter advised some half-dozen drafts by that steamer. There was no advice as to delaying, or mode of payment. I. first saw the letter last Wednesday week. Machar presented the order the same day. I did not then pay him; the settlement was made about ten the following morning, as there were some things clue to us. I paid him part in cash, and part in a draft on San Francisco, at his request. The reason I did not pay him the first evening he asked for it was, that he was drunk, and unfit to have money about him. The draft and balance was lying on our desk, ready for him, at twelve o'clock, noon. I did that, in order that lie might get his money if he called when I was out. I did not care whether he left the country, or not; and I received no instructions from Moody, Dietz and Nelson. About one p. m., he produced a subpoena and showed me, and said his name was wrongly spelled, and he said he thought he should not attend. I advised him to go. I never had anything to do with Machar's leaving the country the next day after his examination. When I refused him the money, I told him he was drunk. He asked me to get him a draft on San Francisco. I sent him to Morton's hotel, and I certainly should not have sent him there, if I had wished to conceal him. Mr. Morton called upon me next morning, and asked me for $2, for his board, which I had to pay, and had net deducted from Machar. Mr. Bobson stated that he wished the three following named witnesses to be examined at Ottawa: Sir John A. Macdonald, Dr. Tapper, Mr. James Richardson, the Geologist; and Mr. Sproat, to be examined in England, Mr. Bobson slated, that lie would prepare the questions, and deliver them to the Secretary, before Monday next. The Commissioners stated, that they would adjourn to Monday next, the 4th May, when Mr. Bobson would be required to attend and produce his witnesses, and be himself examined. The Commissioners also stated, that they considered it would be right and proper that the Attorney-General himself be examined. Adjourned to Monday, 4th May, at 11.30 A. M, 38 Vic. Royal Commission— 'Texada Island. 55 Saturday, 2nd May, 1874. At request of Mr. Robson, issued subpcenas to James Richardson, the Geologist, Thomas II. Tye, Henry Gribbell, for Monday, the 4th instant, at 11.30 a. m. Mr. Robson also handed in the list of questions he desired to be sent to Sir John A. Macdonald, Dr. Tapper, and Mr. Sproat. Monday, 4m May, 1874.—15tu Day. Commission met at 11.30 a. m. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Hon. Attornty-General Walkem, Mr. Mason, Mr. John Robson. The Commissioners read the interrogatories they proposed to send, through the Secretary, to Sir John A. Macdonald, Dr. Tapper, and Mr. Sproat. Subpoena issued for Mr. D. W. Higgins, at.request of Mr. Robson. Witnesses examined—Ihomas H. Tye', James Richardson, Henry Gribbell, John Bobson, David William Higgins, Hon. George Anthony Walkem. Thomas H. Tye, sworn,— Mr. DeCosmos has spoken to me about the discoveries on Texada Island, several times. He spoke to me about the time of the reports of the discovery last Summer.-, Mr. DeCosmos said, "We shall make our own iron." It was a general term that he used. He generally commenced iu a bantering tone. I am a large importer of iron. I thought he meant, "We, the Texada Company, will make our.own iron." I thought Mr. DeCosmos was interested in the mine, because he was so frequently speaking to me about the merits of the mine, and the money that was going to be made out of it. DeCosmos never said that he was interested, but his tone and manner conveyed the impression to me that he was interested. The conversations generally commenced in chaff": about stopping my importing iron, etc. DeCosmos never touched upon the matter of sale, or floating the mine. He never mentioned anybody's name as interested in it. I was rather surprised when I heard that DeCosmos disclaimed having any connection with the Texada mine. Question—Did you think the word "We" to include himself? I took it for a general term, to mean the Texada Company, or even the whole Province. I did not define the term in my own mind. I have, in conversations, expressed an opinion of surprise since the commencement of these proceedings, that DeCosmos' connection with the mine should be denied. I speak of DeCosmos alone, and not of other members of the Government. I may have said that it was my impression, that DeCosmos was deeply interested. Not that I believe it. I admit I was surprised, when I heard DeCosmos disclaimed his being interested. I do not recollect saying that I believed Mr. DeCosmos was deeply interested; at least, if I did say so, I only wished him to understand that it was my impression. By Mr. Walkem,— I have not taken much interest iu politics in the Province; DeCosmos has. I cannot give an opinion of the term "we," it was so general. By Mr. Robson,— Some of the conversations with DeCosmo3 went as to the value and importance of the mine. I think he meant the value of the mine to the country. I understood that the mine would be a valuable discovery to the owners. He always 56 Boyal Commission— Texada Island. 1874 spoke of the mine as being valuable to the Texada Company. He spoke of it as being valuable both to the country and the .owners. I had the impression in my own mind, that DeCosmos was interested in the Texada mine. The conversations never turned upon the tenure of the pre-emptions. I did not know when DeCosmos went to Texada Island. DeCosmos never told me about any efforts made with Mr. Sproat, or any other party or p'arties in England, for the disposal of the mine. James Richardson, sworn,— I am on the Geological Survey for the Dominion. I have had no conversations with Mr. DeCosmos about the Texada iron miue. The only communication I have had with him was by letter, about three weeks ago. It was after the House of Commons met at Ottawa, I received a letter from Mr. DeCosmos. I have not got it; I did not think it would be required. The letter was on geological business, and is preserved. It is left at the Geological Office, .at Montreal. The letter was making enquiries about the value of the iron ore at Texada Island, iu the interests of a company. The company was, I think he said, "Moody & Co." I gave myself very little trouble about it, except answering it. The letter was asking the value of the deposit. I have not a copy of my answer; it is in tho office. It was, as near as I can recollect, that we were not allowed to give reports to private companies, without the permission of the Dominion Government. I further said, that my report was in the hands of Mr. Selwyu, the Director of the Geological Survey, and that he would have no difficulty in seeing what it contained, in a week or two. Mr. DeCosmos requested me, in his letter, to send my charges for making the report, either to himself'or to the company. I replied, iii addition, that under no consideration were we allowed to take pay for doing auy work. That is all my letter, as far as I can recollect. I have never seen DeCosmos since I heard of the iron ore. I have never heard of DeCosmos negotiating with any one for the sale of the mine, except by being asked by parties if I had not heard it. I never said that I would retire from the Government employ to go into the mine. If I had said so, it would be to the contrary of what I thought of acting on. I can't believe I could have said such a thing. I never heard about Mr. DeCosmos negotiating for the sale of the mine, at Ottawa, and I have not heard it anywhere else. I was not at Ottawa; our office is in Montreal. I arrived in Montreal about 26th November, 1873, and left 10th April following. If you require copies of the letters, I will get them for you. Henry Gribbell, sworn,— I was on board the " Cariboo-Fly " when the members of the Government went to Texada Island, viz., Messrs. DeCosmos and Walkem. At first, I could not find out where we were going, until we arrived at the Inlet. I was cook aud steward. I found out at last, we were going on a cruise four or five days, and not having provisions enough on board for the number of passengers, Moody told me to go to the store at the mill and get all I required. I did so; and we started for Texada Island, and got there, and cruised amongst the islands for a clay or two, and came back again to the Inlet. I don't know for certain that they went up for, anything beyond a pleasure trip; but I thought they might have been interested in the Texada iron mine. I know nothing about it. I did not understand that Messrs. Walkem and DeCosmos were interested in the mine. I thought they were. I did not hear they were. I thought they were, by the interest they took iu examining the map of Texada Island, and measuring oft'the map, and the remarks which passed from one to the other, viz., Dalby, Walkem, DeCosmos and Moody, in the saloon on board the boat. Ou one occasion, they drank the Premier's health, "And may he succeed," in something he was going to do. I took it to be a reference to something Mr. DeCosmos had "been authorized to do with the island, by those on board. They were talking about the mine when I went into the cabin, 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 57 and ceased immediately I entered. I don't recollect the words they used, now— but I know they were talking about the mine. Every time I came into the cabin, the conversation was dropped. The impression I had was, that the matter was a secret, and they did not wish me to hear. I did not, at the Inlet, among the men, hear anything about the visit of the Ministers to Texada Island. Three or four men were left on Texada Island by the steamer. I do not know their names. I left the employ of Moody, Dietz and Nelson the day the boat was laid up, after the return from the island. By Mr. Walkem,— I remember the steamer having to put back to the wharf for me. I never made any voluntary statement about this matter. I was subpoenaed. I was cook on board. I will not swear you had a secret to tell. I did not see you personally measuring a chart or plan in the saloon. I was waiting at table. I was down on one deck, and you were up on the other. I was about making the beds, when you were there. I will swear most positively that you were talking about Texada Island iron. I don't remember what you said. I recollect Mr. DeCosmos measuring the map. Mr. DeCosmos was there by himself. I do not recollect the captain showing the course of the steamer on the chart. The toast was, "Here is to the health of the Premier; may he succeed!" I swear there, was a conversation at that time about iron. I don't know what it was. The captain sat at the dinner- table, with the rest of the company from Texada Island to the Inlet. I will not swear the captain was at the table. I won't be positive that the captain was at the table when the toast was drank. I know that three or four men were landed on Texada Island by the steamer. I will swear there were. That was the trip on which you were on board. I don't recollect the names. The boats landed them, I don't know where. I did not go ashore myself. Texada Island was pointed out to me at the time ; and, to the best of my knowledge, three or four men were left there. I recollect a dog you had—it was not a bull dog. I recollect two clogs, coupled together. I don't recollect .seeing them lauded. I saw the men landed in the' boat. By Mr. Robson,— I would not be certain whether those men were landed at Jarvis Inlet or Texada Island. The conversatiou, during the trip, was principally about iron. They appeared to have private conversations, that they did not wish outsiders to hear. When they were measuring the map, the conversations were about the iron, —viz., Messrs. Dalby, Moody, DeCosmos, and Hughes. The conversation was general amongst them. They had a jolly good time on the trip. When I came into the saloon, the conversation always dropped till I left. I therefore thought they wished to be private. John Robson, sworn,— My name is John Robson. I knew nothing of the Texada circular, which appeared in the Colonist of the 9th February, until it appeared in print; I never saw it in copy. When I brought forward my motion in the House (see Votes aud Proceedings of 20th February, 1874), I did, I think, show it to two or three members and to the Speaker, before I put it on the paper. As to the form of the Resolution, I consulted the Speaker, but not as to the propriety. I got lip the Resolution, and pressed for the Commission, of my own accord. • I don't think .I consulted the Speaker as to the propriety of bringing forward the Resolution. I might have used expressions which might appear to be of the nature of consulting him. I won't swear one way or the other. When parties spoke to me about the expense, I said I was not responsible, as the Ministers and members of the House, after having negatived my Resolution, had passed the same themselves, on exactly the same grounds. I was asked to withdraw the Resolution, and I said I would not. I qever said that you objected to my being a member of the Government, 58 Royal Commission—Texada Island. ■ 1874 and that I would be even with you for it, or words to that effect. I did not state so with regard to Mr. DeCosmos. I did not ask [for a scat in the Cabinet of Mr. McCreight's Government. I was offered an unofficial seat, and I declined to take a seat without a_ portfolio. I have no grudge against the Honorable Attorney- Genera]. I am a political opponent, and that is all. I was not aware that the Honorable Attorney-General objected to my being taken into the Government. Iu the first instance, I believed the reports about Texada Island, from seeing them in the Colonist, and I made enquiries, aud I believe the charges to be true in whole or in part, however unsuccessful I may. have been in getting the truth out in Court—and I still believe them to be true. The first information I got from Mr. Higgins. He told me who he had got his information from: Mr. Dalby, Mr. Morton, Captain Devereux, and some others, I think. I concluded that as Dalby was one of the principal movers of the concern, his statement must be true, and that, therefore, there was something in it. Dalby made substantially the same statement to George Norris, the printer in our office—so he told me. With respect to Moody's evidence with regard to two conversations he had with mo, he certainly has misunderstood me, or misstated the purport of the conversations. Moody represented me as having stated that I wished to crush the company of which he was a member. Now, I never said anything of the kind. In that conversation, and in one that previously took place in my office, I spoke in a spirit quite opposite to that, and said I hoped to be able to clear this matter up without injuring or alienating them; that was not only the purport, but my wish and desire. In moving in this matter, I have not been actuated by feelings of malice against any member of the Government or Mill Company. I believed that the allegations, or some of them, were true, and I thought that I was doing my duty as a public man in having them investigated, and I was not'urged thereto by any man. I extremely regret the manner iu which Moody and Dalby have given their evidence, which has rendered these proceedings very painful to me. I know nothing of my own personal knowledge. David William Higgins, sworn,— Some of the information I received, which led me make the statement which appeared in the Colonist of the ninth of February, was of a confidential nature. In August, 1873, I met Devereux in Blanchard. street, and I said, "I have not seen you since your Burrard Inlet trip." He said, "No; that was the last trip I was to make in the boat to the iron mine." I said, "What iron mine?" He said, "Texada iron mine." I said I never heard of it; and he said DeCosmos and "Walkem went up to' the mine in the boat, and Moody and Company have preempted the whole thing; and I, of course, began to feel a little interested, and asked him some other questions; and the substance of what he said was this: Moody, Dalby, DeCosmos, and Walkem, and some others, had gone to the island; that DeCosmos, Moody, and Walkem, had gone ashore; and that, when the ship was on its way .back to the Inlet, he overheard a conversation about selling the mine in Loudon, between DeCosmos, Moody, and others; and he said it was a dirty transaction, and they had kept him from a knowledge of it, because he was going to leave the boat. They had started for Jarvis Inlet, ostensibly, but pulled up at Texada Island. Walkem and DeCosmos went ashore with fishing-rods and guns, but did not bring back any fish—but, he added, they were only taken ashore as a blind; that the other party took ashore mining tools. When he got back to Burrard Inlet, there was a great running round to get British subjects to pre-empt. Coote Chambers told him he had been asked. I told him DeCosmos' paper had suppressed all information that the steamer had been to Texada Island, and he said that was to throw people oft*the track. Iliad no further conversation at that time with any one about it, and heard nothing more about it till fourth February last, when I received a letter. It said, Sproat, Agent-General for this Colony, is offering the Texada iron mine for sale in London; you had better try and find out who placed 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 59 it iu his hands. The letter was from Mr. Bate, at Nanaimo. As I was going down Langley street, the next morning, with the letter in my hand, I met Morton, and I said, "Sproat is offering the Texada iron mine for sale in London," and I said, I began " to think DeCosmos had placed it in his hands, when in London, and that "that was the main object of his mission to England, and not to get a loan for dry " dock." Morton said, " That agrees with what Dalby told me, three or four months " ago;" and he then proceeded to give me the same statement he has already made in 'Court. Mr. Morton showed me a tracing, and said his suspicions had been aroused some months before. I took a copy of the names that were on the tracing; and a few days after, an article appeared- in the Colonist, headed, I think, " The "Texada Island Iron Grab." When this first appeared in the'paper, the sum mentioned was $120,000. The morning after the rebellion, the ninth February, I was standing talking with Lipsett, Tolmie, and others, at the corner of Pandora street, and Dalby came up and said, "Why don't you tell the truth, when you put "things in. the paper ?" I said, "What is the matter now 1" He said, "You put in the paper that DeCosmos was to get $120,000 from Sir John A. Macdonald, aud "it ought to be $150,000." I looked at him about a minute to see if he was laughing. Isaid, "An alteration can soon be made;" but he said, " There is oue thing entirely "wrong—that Sproat was offering stock in London." He said this could not be correct, as no stock had been issued. " Of course," I said, "I don't know whether "a company has been formed; but this I know: that Sproat is offering the mine for "sale;" and he said, " Well, why did you not say so?—that is an entirely dift'ereut "thing." After that, I wrote to Mr. Bate again; and he said that the Vancouver Coal Company had written to him about the mine, and stated that Sproat was offering the thing in the market. One day, subsequently to this, George Norris, my day foreman, now at Nanaimo,. came into the office, and told me he had just' walked down town with Mr. Dalby, and that Dalby had told him that DeCosmos was authorized to sell the mine to Sir John Macdonald for $150,000, and that DeCosmos was to get five per cent, on the sale. Before the Royal Commission was asked for, I found in the Standard of twenty-fifth July, 1873, a paragraph inserted four days before the party started for Burrard Inlet, stating that " Mr. DeCosmos " was going to be absent for a week, on private business," etc. Standard, nineteenth August, had a statement that Dupont and Bulkley had been to Texada Island, but that other parties had recorded the land before them. Seventh August, contained a notice of the return of Messrs. DeCosmos, Walkem, and Mayor Dalby. The Standard paper is published at daylight in the morning. All the information given me was given here, with the following exception: Dalby, when he heard that Dupont and Bulkley were engaged on the island, prospecting, chartered the steamer "Isabel," paying her $200, or $250, and went to Burrard Inlet, aud registered the claim ahead of those parties who had already staked out their land on the island, Mr. Dupont came to me, and told me that he had seen Mr. Beaven, and told him that he, or some of his officers, had been guilty of a very great injustice in allowing persons who had never been on the island, to pre-empt ahead of them, who had already staked off the land. Dupont told me it was no good fighting for it. I believed Dalby's statements, as he was a member of the Texada Company, and, at that time, on good terms with them. By Mr. Walkem,— I had a letter from Mr. Sproat, about two weeks ago, stating substantially what. Dalby had stated—that he had not offered stock, underlining the word. I had no direct information from London on the subject; I received the information through Bate. (Copy.) . London, 4 Lime Street Square, E. C, March 13th, 1874. Dear Sir,—It is not often that I have to complain of the unauthorised use of my name by friends iu British Columbia; but you will, perhaps, kiudly permit me 60 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 to state that you have inadvertently, or on wrong information, published what is not the case, in publishing that some "stock," connected with an "island," and originating iu a "grab," has been placed in my hands for sale. I am sorry to say, that I have not been employed at any time by any person or association in British Columbia, to sell anything for them in this place; but I hope that your notice of me will lead to some paying business. There is, of course, no reason why I should refuse to undertake any agency whatsoever likely to benefit British Columbia, I only.now mention the above matter, because the paragraph in which my name is mentioned, appears to refer to politics, which you know I eschew, as a toilsome and barren pursuit. Very faithfully yours, (Signed). Gilbert Malcolm Sproat. To the Editor of the Colonist. Hon. Attorney-General George A. Walkem, sworn,— From reference to the newspapers, I see that on the twenty-ninth July, DeCosmos, myself, and the other parties mentioned, left Victoria in the " Cariboo- Fly." I asked for the invitation. I asked Hughes, who was here, if there was room for me, as Moody and Company had asked me to go and see their mills, and I had never been to the Inlet during my stay in the Province. We left in the evening, and got to Burrard Inlet. My main object in going to Burrard Inlet, was to see the logging-camps and mills, and inform myself of the lumbering interest of the place. Amongst other parties, I met a man of the name of Laidlaw, and learning that a logging-camp was to be taken to Jarvis Inlet, I said, " Take up your logging-camp first, and take me round the Inlet afterwards." We started oft with seven men, and lauded them at Jarvis Inlet. We came back, and reached the head of Texada Island next morning before daybreak, I think. This was at the north end of tho island. They said they were going ashore to look at minerals, iron, etc.; they asked me if I would go. I said, no; I did not care about it. I went ashore with Hughes, and bathed, and afterwards took a gun and went over the deer trails, and returned to the steamer, and they got back shortly after us—DeCosmos very sick. The steamer left Blubber Bay, and went down abreast of the iron mine; a boat was lowered there; and then■ commenced a survey of the iron. We all went ashore there, except the captain: that is, Hughes, Dalby, DeCosmos, Watson, Moody, and myself, H. Trim, and John Hall. John Hall aud H. Trim had joined us at Blubber Bay. From Blubber Bay down, the iron deposit was freely talked of. When we went ashore, we kept pretty well together while ascending the slope of the hill, till we reached the iron peak; in fact, a horizontal line divides the vegetation from the iron. DeCosmos, Watson, and Moody, went in a southerly direction, towards Gilds' Bay. Dalby, Hughes, and myself, returned to the shore, and got into the boat, and went down ready to pick up the other parties, if they hailed us. Subsequently, they got into the boat; and we rowed round to Gillis' Bay, and got on board. Next morning, Trim and I went out deer hunting. My main object was to see a deer wild in the bush. On our return, there was a good deal of talk about the iron mine. Reference was often made to the course we were taking, on the chart. When we got to Burrard Inlet, and before we started round the Inlet, I had a conversation with Moody. We were sitting outside his house, on the sidewalk. He asked me what I thought of the iron, and whether 1 would like to get into the iron ring. I told him, no; that I had always kept myself clear and free from any speculation while I was iu the Land Office, and I would rather do so now. He told me about Trim and Hall exploring for him, and the expense, and asked me if I would assist, and I said I would, as I thought this' would be a benefit to the country. I did not know how the ground was taken up. Moody told me that there was plenty there, and that if I did not get an interest, some one else would. He said he would like me to consider the matter, and I declined. I asked him if DeCosmos was in the mine, and 88 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 61 he said, no. He said he would like me to come in, because it would require a little money to prospect the claim, and he did not want to draw more money from his business than he could help. I had heard that a large quantity of ore had been taken from the island, down to Spratt's. Trim told me that, if it had not been for the assistance of Moody and Company, he would not have been able to do anything with it. Moody said to Trim, just as we were leaving, "You goon and prospect, and let us know what you can find out." I asked DeCosmos, while at Burrard Inlet, whether he had taken any share in it, and what he thought about it. Ho said Moody had asked him to join, but he declined. He said it was just what the country wanted; but $60,000 would be required for smelting works and rolling- mills; and that lie would push the affair along. The impression he left on my mind was, that he would politically succeed here, if he succeeded in pushing on a thing of this kind. My main reasons for refusing were twofold: first, I did not wish to hamper myself as Attorney-General; second, I did not wish to mix myself up in it at all. The next time I knew anything about this matter, it must have been about the eighteenth August, I think; I had met Mr. Robert Ker in the streets. He said, "You missed it up at Texada; you left out the most valuable portion of the ore." I told him I had nothing to do with it. I banteringly asked him what was up. He said, "A new company, of Dupont and Bulkley, has taken up the best part of "it." I said, "You had better let me into it." I met Mr. Nelson and Dalby after this—in fact', near Dalby's shop—having just left Mi". Ker, who was on the opposite side of the street. Nelson asked me if I could advise hiiii about the mineral licences. He said he had come down in consequence of a visit of Trim's to Burrard Inlet, to take up more ground. Shortly afterwards, Mr. Dalby asked me to act as counsel for them, as they expected a law-suit. I said, what about. He said, in case they had a row with any parties, as they had heard that their land was to be jumped. I said I could not give any advice, as against the Government, but in private matters, I would act for them—and did act for them. After that advice, and after all the row in the newspapers, I spoke to Moody about a Power-of-Attorney to sell, and he said, "No; DeCosmos has written to me, and I never answered his letter." He said DeCosmos was not interested, but had always said-it could be sold. I asked DeCosmos if he was in it. He said, no; and he never had been. He said Moody had never answered his letter; and, of course, he could do nothing without authority. No person is holding an interest in this mine for me, either directly or indirectly. No person is holding any interest for me, with my knowledge or consent. If I wished an interest, I. would hold it in my own name. Mr. Beaven never spoke to me about Texada claims, nor I to him, till the appearance of the Colonist circular, when he told me positively, he was not interested. I never knew what amount of money was expended on the mine, till the books were produced, which I should have done, if I had had to pay it. I have been applied to, on one occasion, by Mr. Nelson. I have since heard that Mr. DeCosnios was there. I was asked whether the Government were in a position to sell mineral lands, and the price per acre. I said, no. Mr. Dupont asked the same question. I said, no. I am sure neither Mr. DeCosmos nor Mr. Beaven are interested in this matter. I went to Mr. DeCosmos, just after the Commission was issued, to get his evidence, but found it could not then be taken; but lie said all Lis share would be shown by . the correspondence; but he was going to try and push the matter. I have not received any reward or promise for any interest I might have had in the iron mine. I did not take silver for iron. By Mr. Robson,— I act, generally, as Moody, Dietz and Nelson's counsel. I did not act professionally in taking up the ground. The conversation with Nelson took place after my conversation with Moody, in front of his house. Moody never consulted me, directly .or indirectly, about the pre-emptions. J. L. Crimp became a member of one of those companies, because he was suggested by me or Dalby; and he is there 62 Royal Commission—7cxada Island. 1874 entirely on his own account. Crimp, about that time, had been asking me for a situation, and I thought he had better go into this. I visited the silver mines at Hope, last year. I did not go up on anybody's invitation. Moody made no appointment to meet me at the mine. I never heard of any sale, or attempted sale, by DeCosmos in England or elsewhere, of this mine, except what I have heard here. Mr. DeCosmos has never, except upon the two occasions stated by me, ever mentioned the subject to me. Commission adjourned sine die. Monday, 27th July 1874.—16th Day. Commission met at 11.30. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—John Robson, H. S. Mason, for the Attorney-General. The Secretary read the answers of Sir John A. Macdonald and Mr. G. M. Sproat, to the interrogatories which had been forwarded to them by the Commissioners. Commissioners directed the Secretary to telegraph to Dr. Tapper about the interrogatories sent him, and to write to Mr. DeCosmos, stating that there would be a sitting of the Royal Commission towards the end of September. Commission adjourned. Thursday, 20th August, 1874,—17th Day. Commissioners present—Honorables H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—John Robson. The Acting Secretary (H. S. Mason), read the telegrams received from Mr. DeCosmos, requesting that interrogatories might be sent to him at Ottawa, at once, as he did not expect to return to British Columbia before the end of the year. The Commissioners stated, that this sitting is for the purpose of giving Mr. Robson an opportunity of suggesting interrogatories to Mr. DeCosmos. Mr. Robson promised to forward some questions to the Commissioners. Commission adjourned. October 2nd.—Hon. Amor DeCosmos was subposnaed to appear before the Com mission on Monday, the 5th instaut, at 10 a.m., at the instance of the Commissioners" Monday, 5th October, 1874.—18th Day. Commission met at 10. Commissioners present—Honorables M. B. Begbie, H. P. P. Crease, J. H. Gray. Present—Mr. Mason (for Hon. Attorney-General), Mr. Robson. The Secretary read the answers of Dr. Txifpcr to the interrogatories which had been forwarded to him by the Commissioners. Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 63 Amor De Cosmos, sworn,— My impression is, that I became aware of the iron deposit in Texada Island, in the first week in July, 1873. I met Mr. S. P. Moody in Victoria, and he walked with me to my rooms. Whilst in conversation with him in my rooms, I said, " I would like to find some iron ore." Moody said he had some he could show me, and that, if I would go with him, he would show it me. I told him that I thought, that at that juncture, iron ore would be very useful in making rails, or any ironwork required for the country. He said he would inform me of the time when I could accompany him to Texada, I believe I left Victoria with Mr. Moody in "Cariboo-Fly," about first August, 1873, and I think we visited the iron about second or third August, 1873. Mr. Dalby, Captain Raymur, and Mr. Walkem, left in " Cariboo-Fly " with me. I am not certain about Moody and Watson. We proceeded to Burrard Inlet, stayed a day, and then left for Texada Island, and went in on the way to Jarvis Inlet. We proceeded to the north end of the island—I think Point Marshall—where a man by the name of Trim then resided. I am not aware of anything being done at Burrard Inlet, with regard to the mine—no negotiations or arrangements. I don't know if Mr. Nelson went from Victoria with me. I am under the impression I saw Mr. Nelson at the Inlet. I think I was at Burrard Inlet on both the second and fourth August, 1873. I think we visited Texada on the Sunday, and that was the third August. I slept on board the steamer the whole time. I did not sleep on shore till I reached New Westminster. I think we passed one night at Gillis' Bay, Texada Island. I do not recollect anything about any telegram or correspondence from Burrard Lilet or New Westminster, to any one in Victoria, about the Hope silver lead, about the second or fourth August. I never' had any connection with the Hope or any silver mine in British Columbia, except the Cherry Creek mine. A conversation' occurred, after my return from Texada Island, with Mr. Watson, on the wharf at Burrard Inlet, about my taking an interest in the mine as a shareholder or partner. I told him, no; I told him I wanted nothing to do with the mine, unless they put it in such a position that I could float it in the market, and then I would try and sell it for them. Mr. Watson was the only one who spoke to me, as far as I can recollect. This arose from a remark I made, that I thought I could find friends who would float the company. Mr. Watson was the only person, as far as I recollect, who asked me to take an interest. I did not know what steps had been taken towards securing the land, beyond a sort of general idea that certain parties had pre-empted land there. Subsequently to my visit to Texada Island, I had a "conversation with Mr. Moody, and, perhaps, with Mr. Dalby and Nelson, about what kind of title Would be useful to sell tho mine in the market. I told them a pre-emption title would be useless; that they must get a Crown Grant. There was the law, and they had better set to work and get a Crown Grant as soon as possible. I believe Mr. Hugh Nelson came to me, in Victoria, and asked me about the title, and I told him the proper person to go to was Mr. Walkem, and, I think, I went with him to Mr. Walkem's house. I recommended him to Mr. Walkem, because he was Attorney-General, and could interpret the law. I think Nelson came to me, because some persons had tried to locate claims on top of theirs, on Texada Island, and I recommended him to go to Mr. Walkem, as he had been a professional man of theirs. He went to Mr. Walkem as a professional man, not as Attorney-General, as far as my knowledge goes. We had the charts out, during the journey to Texada Island, on one or two occasions. I think I had my own. I have no recollection of a toast being drunk, " The health of the Premier; may he succeed!" There was no attempt at concealing anything, either on the trip up or down. I told Mr. Moody that I would be glad to float the mine, when he had completed the title. He said, "All right;" he would give it me to float. I don't know why Mr. Nelson did not go up with us; I did not enquire. If I was told, I forget. I think on our return, we went an excursion round the harbor of Burrard Inlet, aud then went over to New Westminster. We stayed, I think, one night at Burrard Inlet, I do not know what steps were taken at New 64 Royal Commission—Texada Island 1874 Westminster towards securing the land at Texada Island; none, to my knowledge. Shortly after my return to Victoria, I heard that Dupont and Captain Clarke and others, had gone to Texada Island, to get possession of the iron. I think Mr. Oliver told me first. I think he told me he had come down as a passenger from Nanaimo. I don't know how long this was after my return from Texada, I was in Victoria, when Mr. Oliver told me. I don't recollect whether he gave me the information in the Colonial Hotel or in the street; but I recollect talking to him about the iron ore at the table at the Colonial. I think he was the first one who told me. I don't know what he said. I don't know whether I was much excited. I am very seldom angry. I don't know what interpretation others would put upon my conduct. I recollect Oliver sitting at the table, when I came iu. Captain Clarke also came in. The reason I left was, that the food I bad ordered, did not suit me. I did not communicate the news of the attempted jump, that I received, to any one, as far as I recollect. As I left the Colonial Hotel, I met Mr. Dalby, and he told me that these parties had gone to Texada Island, to jump the iron lands. I think I told him he had better go and acquaint his party, and look into it, and take steps to see that their claims were not jumped. I do not know if Messrs. Dietz and Nelson obtained the use of the names of their clerks to cover the pre-emptions. Moody subsequently told me he had no pre-emption himself, as he was a foreigner. I do not' know what Mr. Dalby did. I do not recollect suggesting anything to him. Dalby's object was, as far as I know, a double one: to secure what the parties had already pre-empted, and obtain any further rights that they could. I told Moody that if they were prepared to sell, I would sell for them; and if they were prepared to sell me an interest, I would buy. Mr. Moody told me that he would give me a Power-of-Attorney to sell, but he never did so. I wrote Mi-. Moody a letter, offering to purchase a share, but I never received an answer. I offered to take a quarter, or a half, or something of that sort. I have a copy of the letter here: Copy.] (Strictly private.) Victoria, B. C, 19th Sept., 1873. My Dear Moody,—I hinted to you, a short time- ago, about niy going to England on some business, and that I would take in hand the sale of Texada iron, on such conditions as you might fix. I will probably leave here next week. It will be too soon, I presume, to enable you to wind up your claim and get your Crown Grant. Hence, all that I can do, will bo to take specimens of ore with me, and open the way for capitalists to take stock or purchase. My confidence in the iron is such, that I am ready to purchase a third, quarter, or half of the whole claim, on condition that I can do so by paying my proportionate share of expenses incurred in locating, surveying, recording, holding, aud getting Crown Grants. Please answer as soon as possible, stating on what' condition I can purchase, and on what terms you will allow me to dispose of or sell the mine. Very truly yours, (Signed) A. DeCosmos. I have stated everything substantially that occurred between Moody and myself, with regard to the sale of the mine, prior to the date of this letter. I did not think so much of the ore at first, as I did after I had had an opportunity of examining it in my room. I never had an interest in the mine, nor have I now; nor had I auy authority from Mr. Moody to sell the mine, beyond the verbal promise I. have already stated. I do not-think the percentage I was to receive for the sale of the mine, was ever mentioned by Mr. Moody to me, before I left for Ottawa, in 1873. I am sure the word " commission " never passed his lips or mine. I think I may have mentioned that a mine in Nova Scotia, was sold to great advantage, and I thought this might be also sold. I don't think, in conversation with Messrs. Dalby or Nelson, that the commission I was to receive was ever mentioned. I supposed they would act the liberal part. I have no recollection of mentioning to Mr. Moody, Nelson, or Dalby, to whom I intended to sell the mine. I never thought of so absurd a proposition as selling the mine to the Dominion Government. After my return to the Province, between the last week in January 38 Vic. Royal Commission—Texada Island. 65 and the second week in March, 1874, I had another conversation with Mr. Moody, in which the word "commission" was first used. I told Mr. Moody that if the mine was^roperly placed in the market, it might realize $250,000, as a minimum; and if I did this within a certain time, I expected twenty per cent, commission for my services. I cannot fix the date of this conversation more accurately. I think it was subsequently to my retirement from the Government. I am almost certain it was. I do not know whether it was before or after my election to the Commons; I think it was after my election. I recollect Moody preparing a box of specimens, and a map for me to take with me. Nothing at all occurred at Ottawa, to raise my opinion of the mine. I do not recollect talking to Dr. Tupper about the mine, or to any.other member of Sir John Macdonald's Administration—certainly not with the view of a sale. I talked of iron, generally, at Ottawa. I had a conversation with Mr. Mackenzie, the Premier, about this mine, I think in January last, after my return from England, but before my return to this Province. I asked Mr. Mackenzie whether the Government would be prepared to grant protection to British Columbia in iron, by way of a bonus, and he said, "No; because, if they "did, they would have to treat other industries in other parts of the Dominion the "same." I said, "Suppose an iron company in British Columbia oould Supply rails "at as low a rate as they could be laid down from other parts of the world, would "you buy of them ?" He said, " Yes." On a subsequent occasion, in Mi\ Mackenzie's office, he said, "Well, if they are going to start iron-works in British Columbia, "they had better begin soon, as they will, I think, be wanted very soon." I did nothing in England about the mine, except having a conversation with Mr. Sproat. My remarks to Mr. Sproat vere very vague and general. I gave Mr. Sproat no instructions. I do not recollect mentioning any price to Mr. Sproat. I recollect Mr. Dewdney telling me he was going up to survey the Hope silver mines. I may have told him I would like to get an interest.. I should like to have one now, upon certain conditions; but I should not like to put myself in a position to be frozen out. I think I told Mr. Dewdney, that if he saw .a chance, to give me a show. I think he told me he was going to survey the land, and there was more than there should be. I might have asked him to telegraph me; but I received no telegram. I was a member of the Government at this time. I have no recollection of Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson telegraphing certain instructions to Mr. Dewdney, at Hope, when I was at Burrard Inlet or New Westminster, in August. I never heard, before this moment, that Dewdney's expenses of waiting at Hope, to make the survey of the mine, were paid, by the Government. I don't know who made the surveys, or whether they have been made. Some time during the Summer or Fall of 1873, Moody or Dalby came to me, and asked me if I would take an interest in some outlying silver-lands at Hope, and I declined. I don't know that any ground was taken up for me at Hope. No one was authorized by me to take up an inch of ground for me in British Columbia. I did not know that Mr. Walkem had taken up any lands there. I heard his name mentioned in connection with it, by Mr. Moody. I do not own, nor am not entitled to, an interest, either directly or indirectly, to one iota of ground in any silver mine in British Columbia. I do not think anything of Cherry Creek. Two letters, from E. Dewdney to J. Robson, dated respectively the 9th and "17th September, 1874, were put in and read:— Hope, Sept. 9th, 1874. The Hon. J. Robson— Deab Sir,—As I see iu the Colonist of last week, that you propose to call on me to give evidence before the Royal Commission that has been sitting at Victoria during the Summer • and, as in all probability, it will be most inconvenient for me to attend, I should be glad if you will inform me in what,tway I can be of service, as, probably, a written statement of what you require, may answer all purposes. Yours, truly, (Signed) E. Dewdney. 5 66 Royal Commission—Texada Island. 1874 Hope, Sept, 17th, 1874. J. Robson, Esq., M. P. P.— Dear Sir,—With reference to your request, that I would inform you of any circumstances having come to my knowledge, indicating that Mr. DeCosmos or Mr. Walkem had become possessed of mining property on the Hope Mountain, information having reached you that led you to believe such was the case, I beg to state, that all I know of the matter is,—that on the 21st July, 1873, I received authority from the Local Government, to survey the "Yale Silver "Mining Company," and the "Eureka Silver Mining Company;" and, prior to leaving Victoria for that locality, had a conversation with Mr. DeCosmos, in which he expressed a wish to become interested in the Hope Silver Mountain; and, on my telling him that I was of opinion, that after the survey was completed, some valuable property would be open for pre-emption, he asked me to telegraph him from Hope, on the subject, as soon as I was in a position to cto so. On my arrival at Hope, I saw the agent of the company, who asked me to await the arrival of Mr. Schooley, who was expected up in a few days; he, however, did not arrive; and I went to Yale, to see the Secretary of the company. I'explained to him, that I had been some days at Hope, with my party, and if they did not want the survey made at once, I must leave for the upper country, as I had other work to do. He earnestly requested ine to stop until the arrival of Mr. Schooley from below, who knew about the stakes of the Eureka Company; and stated that the company would willingly pay all expenses of delay. I also, at this time, received the following telegrams: Burrard Inlet, August 2nd, 1873. To Edgar Dewdney— Don't leave until you hear from us; will be at Hope next week- (Signed) H. Nelson. Also— Burrard Inlet, August 4th, 1873. To Edgar Dewdney— Don't wait on us; not ready for survey. (Signed) Moody, Dietz & Nelson. This was at the time Mr. DeCosmos and Mr. Walkem were at the Inlet, either immediately after or before their trip on the " Cariboo-Fly " to Texada Island. I sent in my account to the Co., and a copy to the Government; but as I was settled with by th6 latter, I had no further communication with the Co. on the subject. A short time after my leaving Hope, I was informed that the surveyor who had accompanied the party to Texada Island, and Mr. Walkem, visited the silver mine, and the claims were surveyed. Since then, I have seen two notices in the vicinity of the Eureka claim, dated, I think, Sept. 11th, 1873, on which the names of Mr. DeCosmos' brother, and Mr. C. or G. A. Walkem appear, claiming some mineral land, right adjoining the "Yale" and "Eureka" claims. That is all I know of tho matter; and I trust you will not require me to attend before the Koyal Commission, as it will be most inconvenient. Yours, sincerely, (Signed) Edoab Dewdney. Mr. Beaven, the Chief Commissioner, was here called, and proved the payment of the survey fees of the Eureka mine, by Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson. The Land Office settled with Mr. Dewdney, who was employed by the month, and the expenses were subsequently refunded to the office by Messrs. Moody, Dietz and Nelson. Mr. DeCosmos' examination continued,— Mr. Dalby sent me no answer in reply to my telegram from Ottawa. I am not aware that Dalby wrote to me about the mine in 1873. He telegraphed to me about the quarantine. He wrote me a letter this Summer, in which he mentioned the mine; I forget what it was. I came here from Ottawa, purposely to appear before this Commission. I first saw Mr. Walkem, and he said there was no actual -necessity for me to appear. I next saw notices in the paper, and telegraphed Dr. Ash. I next received, a notice from Mr. Pooley. Commission adjourned sine die.
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Legislative proceedings
F5848.T3 B8
English
Vancouver : University of British Columbia Library
Victoria : Richard Wolfenden
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Original Format: British Columbia Legislative Library. BC ZR1874T49 B 1874
Texada Island (B.C.)
Papers relating to the appointment and proceedings of the Royal Commission for instituting enquiries into the acquisition of Texada Island
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