"772b88f6-d504-4a95-94a8-d65bee7bcf3e"@en . "CONTENTdm"@en . "Westland"@en . "2012-07-30"@en . "1984"@en . "A report on the longest-running fish/forest study in B.C. at Carnation Creek on the west coast of Vancouver Island. From 1970, researchers have gathered data on the impact on fisheries of clear-cut logging. Data uncovered identified retention of Large Organic Debris--left behind after logging to be of great benefit to fish. Panelists included: Gordon Hartman (Fisheries and Oceans Canada) and David Handley (Macmillan Bloedel Ltd.)."@en . ""@en . "https://oc-uat.library.ubc.ca/collections/westland/items/1.0048231/source.json"@en . "1 U-matic videocassette ; 00:29:30"@en . "video/mp4"@en . "(OPENING MUSIC)\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThe BC Wildlife Federation, in cooperation with the communications branch of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, presents Westland, a series of programs discussing natural resources conservation and land use in British Columbia.\n\n\nConflicts over logging damage to fish habitat have been with us for decades. In many parts of this province, there is evidence of logging damage on spawning streams, and much of the Salmonid Enhancement Program has been designed to restore these damaged habitats and make them productive again.\n\nThe debate over logging activity on fish habitat has been bitter. A lot of people think it will never be resolved and indeed it seems certain that this will always be a serious problem. Nevertheless, the relationship between fisheries and forestry interests is getting better all the time, and what may be still more surprising, the longest running study of its kind is producing evidence that some aspects of logging activity may not be as damaging to fish production as long believed.\n\nThe study is still ongoing at Carnation Creek on the west coast of Vancouver Island. Tonight, we have a short film on the Carnation Creek project, and after that, a discussion with some of the principals in our studio.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nCarnation Creek is a small stream located on the west coast of Vancouver Island. The stream supports small populations of Cutthroat trout, Steelhead trout, Chum salmon, and Coho salmon.\n\nWhile distinct biological features exist in every small stream, Carnation Creek does possess characteristics which make it similar in nature to hundreds of other such streams, along the BC coast. Carnation Creek is not a massive producer of salmon or Steelhead. Such streams lack the dimensions to produce large numbers of fish. But collectively, the array of coastal streams makes up a vital component of the pacific salmon resource.\n\nSince 1970, Carnation Creek has been the centre of a unique study program. The project has been monitoring the effects of logging on fish habitat. The watershed was unlogged when the study project began. It was studied for five years prior to logging, and in this way, valuable baseline data were assembled. Now, after the logging is completed, the effects of that activity can be compared with the natural circumstance.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nWe have not set out, and it is not an objective of this study to show that logging is good, or to show that it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s bad. The\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 the objectives of this logging route\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 or this project are really quite different. We\u00E2\u0080\u0099re concerned first off with simply understanding how the ecological systems in a little watershed like this Carnation Creek watershed act, as it were. And the second thing that we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re concerned with, once we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve developed an understanding of processes within this kind of system, is how the logging activities themselves impact on these processes. \n\nAnd I guess the third thing that is important and that we want to be able to do is to take the kind of information that this research project develops and give that information to the forest managers and to fisheries managers so they can make better decisions. They can make better informed decisions, and they will know slightly more about the systems that they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re dealing with when they make those decisions.\n\nJACK DRYBERG:\nWe found that the resource conflicts stem from the fact that where the values are high for fisheries, they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re also usually high for forestry. Our best timber grows in the valley bottoms along the streams, and as well, that\u00E2\u0080\u0099s where the fish are. That\u00E2\u0080\u0099s a logical thing. That\u00E2\u0080\u0099s where the conflicts will come.\n\nBut in this particular project, we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve been working hand in hand with federal fisheries personnel, and our logging people, and our forestry people. And we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve come along to the point where we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve been understanding a little bit more of each other\u00E2\u0080\u0099s particular resource and some of the factors that they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re looking at. We\u00E2\u0080\u0099re looking at some of the things where\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 things that we can do in particular to help them, and they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re looking at some of the practical things that they can do to assist us as well. So it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s been a very very cooperative venture, and I would definitely like to see this carried on throughout the rest of the coast.\n\n(CHAINSAW BUZZING)\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThe removal of large volumes of wood, from any forested setting, is a pretty aggressive exercise. It is not easy to go about it gently. In fact, it is virtually impossible to perform a modern logging operation, without causing some damage to soils, and the general forest environment.\n\nThe removal of trees in a clear-cut logging pattern, such as is occurring here naturally creates massive aesthetic changes. But there are also other impacts, which, though more subtle, are certain to cause alteration to the aquatic environment on which the salmon and trout depend.\n\nThe logging operations in Carnation Creek were not deliberately soft-pedalled in order to lessen the environmental impact. In fact, a combination of logging prescriptions was applied here, so as to obtain as wide a variety of impacts as possible. On some of the valley bottom areas, a portion of the stand was left unlogged, while in other areas, logging was carried on right to the stream bank.\n\nIn the winter of 1980-81, felling and yarding of timber ceased in Carnation Creek and brought the planned five-year logging phase of this study to a close. Now, after ten years of life, the study area has been subject to five years of pre-logging analysis, and five years of monitoring the actual effects of the logging activity on the stream environment.\n\nIn its post-logging phase over the coming years, the study will attempt to evaluate the rate of recovery of the stream system from those impacts caused by the felling and yarding of timber. \n\nThe Carnation Creek project was a joint effort involving MacMillan Bloedel Limited, the BC Forest Service, the BC Fish and Wildlife Branch, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the Canadian Forestry Service, and the Water Survey of Canada.\n\nWater levels fluctuate widely in all coastal streams. This event is related to the high rainfall typical of the west coast environment. But it is also influenced by logging activity. Runoff rates often increase dramatically in the wake of a major logging operation. The examples of these erratic runoff rates are sometimes visible on the ground, but there are other changes as well. Freshets can shift the actual course of the stream itself, scouring gravel from one place, and dropping it someplace else. This can have a deleterious effect on fish eggs, for instance, by burying them too deeply or washing them away.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nRoots that are in the bank are beginning to break down and die and the integrity of the bank itself is much poorer, so that with each freshet, we see fairly dramatic erosion of the bank and in this section of the stream that received intensive treatment. In fact, there are places where the bank has eroded back 5- or 6-feet since the beginning of this winter season.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nTo determine the extent of and seriousness of these gravel movements, a program of gravel sampling has been taking place at regular intervals since the study program began. Samples of gravel from the stream bed itself show a pattern of the creek\u00E2\u0080\u0099s behaviour, and thus help quantify the effects of the logging.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nWhat they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re doing there is they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re really just driving a pipe into the gravel and they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re putting dry ice into the part of that pipe, and they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re pour acetone through it and the super cooled acetone in the pipe simply freezes the gravel and the water around the outside of the pipe. What they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re doing is making a big popsicle out of a gob of gravel.\n\nThe gravel sample is taken off of the pipe, and it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s actually sectioned into three levels: a top section and a mid section and a bottom section. Those three different sections are taken back and then they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re sieved so that they can determine the composition of the gravel. In effect, there are a whole string of different sieve sizes that allow gravel material of different sizes to pass through, so that in the sieve process, they can determine the percentage composition of particles of different sizes within the gravel.\n\n(NATURE SOUNDS)\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nA large weir, or fish fence, erected across the lower reaches of this stream enabled fisheries people to count adult fish returning to spawn, as well as juvenile fish migrating downstream. Both Coho and Chum salmon spawn in Carnation Creek.\n\nTo further determine the effects of the logging on fry, or juvenile fish, researchers have systematically studied the growth rates of these fish at various stages of the project\u00E2\u0080\u0099s life. A small beach net is usually used to capture the young trout or salmon. They are taken from the net and placed in a tranquilizer solution. After the tranquilizer has taken effect, they are measured, identified as to species and age, and a scale sample taken. Some of the results were quite surprising.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nFish going into their first autumn are larger since logging because of the increased warmth of our water temperature, because of the increased insect production and nutrient loading in the stream, so that the fish size has actually increased. Indeed, a second thing that\u00E2\u0080\u0099s happened is that the numbers of Coho smolts coming out of the system has increased since logging. I would add that the number of Cutthroat and Steelhead smolt is down, but the number of Coho smolts has increased almost to double the pre-logging level. I think that it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s important though to stress that that has happened really for two reasons. There have been these changes that I\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve referred to, which we are\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re seeing the fish enter the winter in better size and in better condition, but it happens also that we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve had four particularly mild winters since the main logging activity began on the watershed, and both of these things probably work together to enhance the survival of Coho through the winter.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nIt was also found that gravel movement and stream bank erosion increased dramatically in those parts of the drainage in which timber was logged right to the stream bank, and in some cases, across the stream itself. In fact, changes in the stream bed in those sections of the creek are still taking place.\n\nSo while summer conditions for young Coho salmon have been enhanced by the logging, the response in winter has not been so encouraging. The incubation success of eggs laid in the gravel has declined, apparently because of the accumulation of large quantities of sand in the river bed. The particles of sand fill the small spaces in the gravel, thereby reducing the flow of oxygen to the eggs and preventing the hatching fish from being able to free themselves from the stream bed.\n\nOn those sections of the stream in which some trees and other vegetation were left along the creekside, stream conditions are much more stable. Undisturbed, large forest debris is providing vital habitat for young salmon who seem to utilize these sections of the stream as shelter habitat during the turbulent periods of the freshet.\n\nJACK DRYBERG:\nMany people thought that big debris in the stream was bad, small debris not quite so bad. We found quite the opposite\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 in actual fact, big debris can be valuable in creating fish habitat in the stream, creating pools and riffles - a sequence which is valuable for fish. And also, small debris - that was found to be the most damaging \u00E2\u0080\u0098cause it was carried by debris\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 or by water torrents and scoured the stream banks and caused siltation and various other things of that nature.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nAnother piece of information to come out of the Carnation Creek study concerns the use by young salmon of slack water side channels.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nDuring the periods of winter freshet, a large number of small Coho salmon sort of come downstream and then work back up into those side channels, and they weather out the storms in there.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nSo essentially they use them for shelter, is that what you\u00E2\u0080\u0099re telling me?\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nYes, they use those\u00E2\u0080\u00A6\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThey (INAUDIBLE) to feed in there? Tell me about that.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nWell, there\u00E2\u0080\u0099s some food in there but probably feeding isn\u00E2\u0080\u0099t as important as shelter is during the winter time, so that the essential value of those is they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s a place to get out of the storm.\n\nJACK DRYBERG:\nThis particular valley is relatively typical of most other streams on the coast. We\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve got high fisheries values and it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s got high timber values as well. Timber growth is excellent in here. We\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 once the mature timber has taken off, we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re reforesting them and putting them back into young, healthy second growth, and this particular area can grow trees with leaders anywhere up to at least three feet in height, per year. The leader on a tree would indicate the growth from the past year. So that\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 obviously, the taller the leader, the better growing site you\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve got.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThere are some whose aesthetic sensitivities might be offended by the site of this logged over valley. The slash burned remains that mark the passing of a modern logging operation are offensive to some. But the claims that logging operations are always ugly and destructive are based more on human value judgements than ecological reality. We have been persuaded to believe that logging is ugly, particularly in the aftermath. In fact, a new forest is already rising here, to be logged again in its turn. This valley has been logged, but it is not lifeless. It has been changed, but it has not been destroyed. When one looks at it more closely, one can see that it is already beginning to heal.\n\nA few years can make a great difference in the appearance of a replanted forest. A typical young Douglas fir, sampled from the drainage adjacent to Carnation Creek, was found to have obtained a diameter of 6-inches and a height of 16-feet in only ten years. Perhaps Mother Nature deserves more credit than we have been giving her. Successions of huge forest plants have been growing and dying on these sites for thousands of years. That is not to say that these small watersheds do not require a truly high level of care in order to guarantee a series of continuous harvests. The fact is that these small coastal watersheds are good growing places for both salmon and trees. The extra management effort we may be required to apply to these sites is really no more than an investment in the future.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nThere are literally hundreds and hundreds of these little streams up and down the coast of British Columbia. There\u00E2\u0080\u0099s no one of them is particularly important, but all put together they are immensely important. \n\nJACK DRYBERG:\nThe fisheries people in particular are concerned about their fish, and we are concerned about our trees. In particular, in these coastal plains and along the stream banks, that\u00E2\u0080\u0099s where the real values are, for us and for them. You maximize one, quite frequently, you\u00E2\u0080\u0099re gonna decrease the other. And vice versa. So we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve gotta look at cooperating together to get the best compromise between the two. \n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nIt is neither possible, nor necessary to study every stream this extensively. The Carnation Creek project is ongoing, and the lessons learned here, are being usefully applied to other systems. There is a great and growing demand for both salmon and wood. These are truly vital resources, and society needs them both. We cannot afford, therefore, to turn our backs on either one. With some reservations, it can now be said that we know enough about both salmon and wood to manage each resource separately. We still have a lot to learn about managing them on those sites in which they happen to occur together.\n\n(BIRD SOUNDS)\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nGordon Hartman, as biologist on the Carnation Creek research project, you\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve had access to enormous piles of data. What are some of the highlights of that scientific stuff that you\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve been plowing through?\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nAlright, well, certainly there is an enormous amount of data gathered over some 12 or 13 years at this stage. And I think that one of the most interesting things that has emerged from our work is the indication that when you alter a valley watershed, as you do when you log, there are\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 you make many changes in that system. Some of those changes, as people understand and have heard before, may be quite destructive as far as fish production is concerned. On the other hand, there are some of the kinds of changes that are made with forest removal in a watershed that potentially may be positive as far as fish production is concerned.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nSo there\u00E2\u0080\u0099s been some truth confirmed and some new information as well.\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nYes, I would say that\u00E2\u0080\u0099s true.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nYeah\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 David Handley, from the point of view of a forest industry person, what was some of the interesting things that emerged out of the Carnation Creek experience from your perspective?\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nWell, I think that the most interesting thing really was perhaps, simply the fact that we now had some real live data within our own area which provided answers as to what did we do that could be improved, what were the things that had been thought damaging in the past that perhaps weren\u00E2\u0080\u0099t as damaging as biologists might have thought. But we now felt that we had something a little more firm as a guideline on which to base our future actions rather than feeling, well, we were being held guilty of something on the basis of hypothesis, rather than proof.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nWhat would you say, either one of you, to the suggestion that any future problems on the stream systems have been removed because now we know how to do it, that sort of thing? I mean, can we simply take the Carnation Creek data and knowledge and extrapolate it cleanly into another system?\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nNot entirely. I think that that the important thing to realize about a study like Carnation Creek, which is a total watershed study, is that we come out with a great deal of information about ecological processes within a system. And we can take away some of that understanding and apply it in other systems that are somewhat different than Carnation Creek, and certainly we can apply it very well in systems that are like Carnation Creek. But I think the vital thing that comes out is that we understand better some of the relationships between soil and water and trees and\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 fish. And it\u00E2\u0080\u0099s ultimately in the use of that understanding and management that I think we get our benefits.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThere\u00E2\u0080\u0099s a piece of jargon that refers to that concept that we perhaps should best explain before we use it, but that relates to that expression of \u00E2\u0080\u009Csite-specific application\u00E2\u0080\u009D. Do either one of you like to try and provide us with a\u00E2\u0080\u00A6\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nYes, I would like to talk about that from the point of view of an operational person. Gordon can see this as a researcher and he\u00E2\u0080\u0099s concerned about transferability of data. As people who have to make decisions every day, we probably are very cavalier in the scientist\u00E2\u0080\u0099s eyes in how we think we can interpret data, and I think I would want to emphasize that we have learned some basic principles which I think will apply anywhere. We have to perhaps fine-tune the degrees to which we\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 change or not change our operations, recognizing that certain areas are more sensitive than others, but recognizing too that somehow the show must go on, and we can\u00E2\u0080\u0099t really wait forever for the absolute answer. We\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve got to operate on the 80% solution, perhaps. \n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nCan I, perhaps, take you a little further with that then? You\u00E2\u0080\u0099re suggesting that the demands of maintaining production of the forest, which is a huge sort of production process in British Columbia, may suggest that on occasion, you\u00E2\u0080\u0099re gonna want to go with the best data available at the time, rather than wait for empirically-sound data in every case.\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nI don\u00E2\u0080\u0099t think we have very much choice. I think there are going to be some areas where we can say that the problems or the sensitivities are such that we will defer, but I think if conventional wisdom and good common sense and judgment, particularly not a unilateral decision, but a joint decision between the fisheries management people and the forestry management people that says, \u00E2\u0080\u009CYes, this is the best compromise that we can come up with.\u00E2\u0080\u009D That that\u00E2\u0080\u0099s the way we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ll have to tackle these particular issues.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nI\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve been thinking about the fact that, people who are frequently in the employ of agencies that have been seen as opposing\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 factions, were involved in the Carnation Creek experience for a long time and apparently got along well. Now, is there some of that spirit that can be taken abroad into resource management decisions of another kind?\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nWell, I think some of that spirit\u00E2\u0080\u0099s already been taken abroad, because in the process of doing this work, and, particularly in the last few years, we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve spent a great deal of time taking forestry students, fishery officers, public groups and foresters out to the project. We explain the project to them and we show them some of the things that are happening out there on the ground. We show them the good, and we show them the bad, and we show them the problems. And I think we also give them ideas about what some of the solutions might be. So I think that simply by doing the project, then putting a fair amount of emphasis into trying to communicate to key people, we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re going a little bit in the right direction, as far as the problem you raise is concerned. \n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nIf I could pick up, I\u00E2\u0080\u0099d like to stress where I see the real benefits that have come from that, and particularly the conference or seminar that we had at Malaspina College. And this has been the proposal that we jointly develop guidelines\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 both as foresters and conservation officers, researchers, that reflect the\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 all the interests, but put together in an air of cooperation rather than the confrontation that we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve had in the past, with a better understanding of the objectives that we each have and the obstacles that we have to overcome to achieve these objectives.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nThese\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 you\u00E2\u0080\u0099re talking about sort of logging guidelines, or\u00E2\u0080\u00A6\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nThese are logging\u00E2\u0080\u00A6\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\n\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 or industry guidelines.\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\n\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 Yes. We really don\u00E2\u0080\u0099t have a full title for them yet, but they\u00E2\u0080\u0099re going to be used by industry, by the agencies as a means of monitoring what we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re doing, with a real emphasis on much better understanding, as I say, of the problems that face us. And I think the key thing also is going to be that once the guidelines are developed and accepted by this mix of people, that the training aspect is going to bring the people who have to apply them together. And so that they too, when they go back, will have been trained in a mixed group, not individually, this agency or that agency, without the interplay that is so vital to understanding.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nI see you\u00E2\u0080\u0099re nodding - Does that strike some chords with you, Gordon also?\n\nGORDON HARTMAN:\nI think so. Yes, I mean, I think that the future direction, as far as applying the information is concerned, is going to have to be one, which groups of people with different kinds of understanding, different expertise, are going to have to go into these systems together to do the planning.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nWell, I guess it might be appropriate to suggest that at one time, as all of us I guess would agree, the spirit of attempting to maximize a particular resource value is one of those things which created some of these resource and land use difficulties in the past. Can anybody think of a short comment with respect to that?\n\nDAVID HANDLEY:\nWell, I would comment very quickly that I think for far too long people have been talk\u00E2\u0080\u00A6 talking about maximizing this, or maximizing the other. Policies and objectives have been developed by the agencies and by industry without any integration, and this is where we have got to get together and realize that our objectives have got to be integrated to provide the best answer for the nation as a whole, for the province as a whole, not for one individual group. And we\u00E2\u0080\u0099re going to have to recognize, as a forest industry, that there are places where we have to give way to fisheries. There are going to be other areas where I think fisheries have to give way to forestry, and there are going to be some areas where we somehow have to work out what the best compromise still is. And those are going to be the difficult ones, where there\u00E2\u0080\u0099s no clear-cut answer, where this or that is dominant.\n\nMIKE HALLERAN:\nGentleman, I think we\u00E2\u0080\u0099ve run out of time. I want to thank both of you very much for coming in tonight. I\u00E2\u0080\u0099m Mike Halleran. Good night.\n\n(CLOSING MUSIC)\n\n\n
Westland\"; A Joint Presentation of the B.C. Wildlife Federation; Communications Branch Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Canada); Series Producer: Mike Halleran; Production Assistant: Jeanne Halleran; Series Editor: Danny Tanaka; We wish to acknowledge the assistance of the B.C. Ministry of Forests; We wish to acknowledge the assistance of the B.C. Fish & Wildlife Branch; Produced through the facilities of The Knowledge Network"@en . "Season 01 Episode 02
Mike Halleran; Gordon Hartman - Dept. of Fisheries & Oceans (Canada); Jack Dryberg - MacMillan Bloedel Ltd.; Dr. Gordon Hartman - Fisheries and Oceans (Canada); David Handley - MacMillan Bloedel Ltd."@en . "Motion Pictures"@en . "Carnation Creek (B.C.) ; Vancouver Island (B.C.)"@en . "UBC VT 2160.1/002"@en . "Westland_01_02"@en . "10.14288/1.0048231"@en . "English"@en . "Vancouver : University of British Columbia Library"@en . "Images provided for research and reference use only. Permission to publish, copy or otherwise use these images must be obtained from University Archives: http://www.library.ubc.ca/archives"@en . "Original Format: University of British Columbia. Archives. Halleran Video Collection. UBC VT 2160.1/002"@en . "Carnation Creek"@en . "Moving Image"@en .