UBC Publications

UBC Publications

UBC Publications

University Location in British Columbia Jun 30, 1910

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 University Location
in British Columbia
A Summary of the Arguments
presented by the Lower Mainland University Committee to
the University Sites Commission
appointed to fix the location
of the Provincial University of
British Columbia :::::::
I.   Introductory      3
II. To Show that the Lower Mainland Is and Will
Continue to Be the Centre of Population and
Industry in British Columbia      4
III. To Show that the Lower Mainland is the Centre
of Education for the Province      8
IV. The General and Special Advantages Offered to
the University by the Lower Mainland    18
V. The Experience of Other Universities in the Matter of Location    35
VI.   Arguments for Centralization    41
VII.   The Advice of Leading Educationalists    44
VIII.   Possible University Sites on the Lower Mainland   58 PART I.
The Members of the University Location Commission.
Gentlemen: Upon hearing of the nomination of the University Sites Commission by the Provincial Government of British
Columbia, representatives from all organizations and institutions
of the Lower Mainland interested in the location of the Provincial
University met, and, finding that they were agreed in their belief
that the University would be placed with the greatest advantage
in the Lower Mainland, formed a General Committee to investigate, arrange and present to the Commissioners any such data as
might be of service in helping them to form their decision.
This General Committee accordingly desires to present to
you the results of its investigations and the arguments based
thereupon, realizing indeed that much of this information could
be obtained by, and many of these arguments are already familiar
to you, but with the hope that some new matter of interest and
importance, which might otherwise have been overlooked, will
thus be brought to your notice, and your task as a whole greatly
The Committee has devoted itself mainly to the collecting
and arranging of such information concerning the Lower Mainland as would naturally be of importance in its relation to both
faculty and students of the Provincial University, aiming to show
that the institution would have by far the greatest educational
value, prosperity and influence if placed in this section of the
Province. However, in addition, it has endeavored to collate
such data concerning the establishment and progress of other
universities, as might prove of some assistance in determining
the present issue.
Therefore, this Committee has endeavoured, as far as possible, to present in fullest detail the true conditions as at present
existing and the prospects for the future, with full knowledge
that in questions of this nature each man's opinions are necessarily influenced by his own experience. Although our convictions may be influenced by enthusiasm for our own environment, still the people of the Lower Mainland are profoundly
convinced that the success of the University depends in great
measure upon its being placed in this locality.
Accordingly, Gentlemen, we beg leave to lay before you
the case of the Lower Mainland. T
Population and Industry.
School centers in all the large cities are established on a
basis of density of population. And it is an admitted fact that
the most serious problem that confronts all school boards is
the problem of keeping pace with municipal growth.
All over the American continent today are universities that
are failing to fulfill the promises of their founders by being
remotely located, out of the reach of those who cannot afford
to travel miles to get to them, with their doors barred against
the young man who has to work his way through college because the opportunities to work are limited by the commercial
backwardness of the towns in which they stand.
The Lower Mainland of British Columbia is, and will always
continue to be, the most populous section of the Province, and
it is probable that it will eventually become the most thickly
settled territory west of the Great Lakes. The present population of British Columbia is estimated at 350,000. Of this number of persons it is conservative to place the number residing
in what is known as the Lower Mainland at two-thirds of the
The population of the various cities of the Lower Mainland,
taken together with the estimated population of the agricultural
districts of the Fraser River Valley, including Chilliwack, is
most conservatively estimated as follows: Vancouver, 115,000;
South Vancouver,- 20,000; New Westminster, 15,000; Burnaby,
5,000; North Vancouver, 6,000; estimated population in agricultural districts, 50,000; total, 211,000.
There is no likelihood that the future development of the
Province will disturb this ratio as it would be contrary to all
the precedents established by growth elsewhere for the center
of population to shift from this section since the causes that have
contributed to its upbuilding are permanent in their nature.
The Lower Mainland of British Columbia today contains
the greatest ocean port in Western Canada. James J. Hill, president of the Great Northern Railroad, recently pointed out the
supremacy of the metropolis of the Province and predicted its
future in the following words:
'' In growth and commercial activity Vancouver has no equal
on the Pacific Coast today. A thousand factors which I have
not time to enumerate are contributing towards the development of this great western country—and I speak without any
regard to invisible boundary lines, Seattle and Vancouver are
destined to be vast centers. Vancouver with its wonderful hinterland will probably be the largest city.   Mark my words, young
man, Burrard Inlet will be the greatest commercial port on the
Pacific. I would venture all I own that its population will exceed
half a million within fifteen years. Vancouver has not yet
started on its forward career. I see a day coming when half a
score of lines from Northern British Columbia will converge on
Burrard Inlet. You have untold wealth in the seas, the greatest
timber resources on the continent and mineral assets that will
make British Columbia the greatest Province in the Dominion."
The industrial production of the Province during 1909, according to the Provincial Government Reports, averages $315
per head of population—the highest of all the provinces of the
Dominion. In the lumbering industry alone the employees reach
a total of 27,000. Of this number 15,000 are employed on the
Lower Mainland.
The following tables present conclusive  evidence that the
commercial growth of Vancouver has been uninterrupted:
Vancouver City taxation—
Real property.   Improvements.      Rate.     ^^J"5**8
1901 $12,792,530.00   $ 7,440,600.00    16 mills    50% of value
1909  48,281.330.00     24,405,210.00    20 mills    25% of value
1910   76,927,720.00     29,644,755.00    20 mills    Nothing at all
(Single tax)
The bank clearings.
Bank Clearings, Canada, Seven Cities.
1899. 1909.
Montreal    $794,109,924       $1,866,649,000
Toronto      504,569,918 1,437,700,477
Winnipeg      107,786,798 770,649,322
Halifax     70,600,705 . 95,278,467
Vancouver     42,179,553 287,592,941
Victoria       33,506,489 70,695,882
Ottawa   173,181,993
For the first four months of 1910 the bank clearings for Vancouver totalled $126,802,000.
Of the great harbors of the world, Burrard Inlet and the
Fraser River probably are unequalled in the facilities they possess
for both salt and fresh water harbors.
One hundred and fifty miles from the open Pacific, we are
sheltered from the storms of that great ocean and from the force
and immense precipitation of the cloud-laden southwest winds
by the mountains of Vancouver Island and the more distant
Olympian range, which rise to a height of seven thousand feet
from the southern shore of the Straits of San Juan de Fuca,
while to the north and west the Coast range affords equal protection to both harbours. 1
Within the First Narrows, known as the "Lion's Gate," the
shore of the harbor proper (not including the North Arm of
Burrard Inlet) extends to twenty-five miles, while the width in
front of the C. P. R. Railway Depot is two and a quarter miles,
the low water depth at the wharves being twenty-six feet, and
in the stream fully thirty fathoms, the average tide being thirteen and a half feet.
In addition to the main harbor, there is in the center of the
city what is known as False Creek, with a dock line of about
four miles, while the southern shore of English Bay to Point
Grey extends an equal distance and is likely to be utilized in the
not far distant future.
The Fraser River runs almost parallel with Burrard Inlet
and English Bay from four to seven miles to the south, cutting
off a peninsula about twenty-five miles in length. The river
empties into the Gulf of Georgia by two main channels, enclosing
several large islands. The City of New Westminster, on the
north bank of the Fraser, is about twelve miles from the water
front in the center of Vancouver. The two cities are rapidly
growing toward each other and present developments indicate
that within a comparatively short time the whole peninsula will
be city and suburban property.
The river offers one hundred miles of deep water wharfage,
all of which can easily be made available for shipping, a great
part being suitable for the largest ocean-going vessels. The Canadian Northern Railway has announced that its chief terminus will
ba at Port Mann on the south bank of the Fraser, a little above
New Westminster City. This will doubtless mean a considerable
city at that point.
The advantages of a fresh water harbor and the high price
of frontage on Burrard Inlet and False Creek are forcing industries to locate on the Fraser, and indications point to this as the
great industrial center of the Province as Vancouver City will, of
course, remain the commercial and shipping center.
The geographical and strategical position of Burrard Peninsula, as the chief port of the Dominion of Canada on the Pacific,
assures for it a great future, and while it is at present the terminus and shipping port of the Canadian Pacific Railway system,
it is expected that within four years the Canadian Northern, the
Grand Trunk Pacific, the Great Northern, the Northern Pacific
and the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul lines will all have their
steamers plying from the docks on Burrard Inlet, English Bay,
or the Fraser River, while the completion of the Panama Canal
on the one hand and the interim agricultural extension in Alberta
and Saskatchewan, added to the development of British Columbia
itself on the other, are all factors tending to increase her importance in the world's commercial intercourse.
Vancouver is rapidly becoming the great distributing center
of the Coast. The growth of its wholesale business is demonstrated
by the steady increase in the number of commercial travelers that
are sent out of the city. Twenty-three years ago Vancouver was
made a port of entry. It first became a distributing center in
1886, although it was not until ten years later that it gained any
considerable recognition as a wholesaling depot. Now more than
800 commercial travelers are carrying samples out of Vancouver,
and the wholesale houses have upwards of 5,000 employees on
their payrolls.
It is important to realize the vast area and the absolute certainty of a rapidly increasing population in that portion of the
Province watered by the Lower Fraser, which for practical purposes is called the Lower Mainland. From Lytton to the Coast
on the North bank and from Chilliwack to the Delta on the South
bank, there is a distance of one hundred and fifty miles of wonderfully fertile land, capable of providing occupation for hundreds
of thousands of agriculturalists. New Westminster district contains 4,900,000 acres, of which one million or more are as good
fruit and farm lands as can be found in the world. The climate,
the character of the soil and the demands of the market will probably mean that the greater part of this area will be given over to
fruit raising, market gardening and dairying. From the fact that
an average of from fifteen to twenty-five acres of cultivated land
in this district will keep a family in affluence, some idea of the
future agricultural population may be formed. PART III.
To Demonstrate That the Lower Mainland Is the Educational
Centre of the Province.
1. Statistics taken from the report of the Department of
Education for the year ending June 30th, 1909:
(a) McGill University College (Vancouver) enrolled  108
McGill University College (Victoria) enrolled  21
(b) Vancouver High School enrolled  810
Victoria High School enrolled  293
(c) Vancouver Island High Schools enrolled    388
Mainland High Schools enrolled 1,421
Enrollment in High Schools on Lower Mainland 1,045
(d) Percentage of High School students of British Columbia
attending  in—
Vancouver    45%
Victoria    16%
On Vancouver Island 21%
On Mainland 78%
On Lower Mainland 58%
(e) Total enrollment of British Columbia Public
Schools   36,227
Total enrollment of Vancouver City   9,580—26%
Total enrollment of Peninsula between Burrard Inlet and Fraser, extending from
Port Moody to Point Grey, together with
North Vancouver  13,096—36%
Total enrollment of Lower Mainland 16,512—45.5%
Total enrollment of Victoria   3,395—9%
2. (a)    Statistics   obtained   directly   from   Municipalities
showing increase since last published report:
Report of 1908-9. Present.
Vancouver     9,580 10,600
North Vancouver      341 700
South Vancouver  1,103 1,500
Burnaby      286 410
New Westminster   1,593 2,000
Totals   12,903
Increase     2,307—18%
(b) Percentage of total number of pupils in Vancouver
attending High School or College     10%
(c) Number of pupils writing on McGill University Matricula
tion June, 1910, at—
Vancouver   150
Lower Mainland 200
(d) Number doing University work in Lower Mainland—
McGill University College  125
Columbian College   20
(e) Number of students attending Columbian College, New
Westminster    188
Number of students attending Westminster Hall, Vancouver   55
(f) There are the following private institutions besides those
already mentioned doing elementary and secondary
work as high as matriculation: Chesterfield School,
North Vancouver; New College, Vancouver City; Crof-
ton House, Vancouver City (the largest girls' school in
British Columbia); Yale Girls' School, Yale, B. C; St.
Ann's Academy, Vancouver City; St. Mary's School,
Vancouver City; St. Louis' School, New Westminster;
St. Anne's School, New Westminster.
3. Information regarding the Vancouver Schools indicating
the general interest taken in educational matters.
Manual Training was established at Vancouver and Victoria
through the generosity or Sir. Wm. Macdonald, three centres being established in each City. Since then no increase has taken
place in equipment or staff in Victoria. Vancouver has eight centres in elementary schools and one in the High School, with a staff
of eight instructors. New Westminster has also opened a Manual
Training centre.
Domestic Science has been established in Vancouver and Victoria for some time. Victoria has one centre and one instructor;
Vancouver has six centres with three instructors for cooking; two
domestic art centres in High Schools with one instructor and a
supervisor of sewing for the grades.
Vancouver has established night schools for elementary and
advanced pupils; the enrollment last year was 900, of whom 600
finished the term.
Some years ago the Vancouver Board of School Trustees felt
the need of medical inspection of Public Schools and took steps
to carry out the work. At the time the work was started no other
City in the Dominion had actually undertaken this in a systematic manner. The Vancouver Board now has a doctor giving his
full time to the work, assisted by a nurse. The system adopted
in Vancouver, after a careful inspection of the systems in American Cities, was so successful in operation that it was made the basis of a Provincial Act providing for the medical inspection of
all Public Schools in the Province.
The Board of Trustees of Vancouver, following the practice
of most American Cities, has relieved the principals of the large
elementary schools of actual responsibility of a class, thus enabling
them to more carefully supervise the work of their school.
The compulsory clause of the B. C. School Act is enforced
in the City of Vancouver, but not in any other part of the Province.
The citizens of Vancouver have always provided the funds
for educational expansion in a most liberal manner. By-laws for
school sites or school accommodation have never been defeated.
4. Students from British Columbia attending Eastern Universities : Lower Mainland.    Island.    Rest of Prov.
McGill Arts     8 6 5
McGill Science       8 2 5
McGill Medicine   15 6 10
Total    31 14 20
Queen's Arts  10 0 8
Queen's Science  4 0 2
Queen's Medicine  0 1 0
Total    14 1 10
Toronto University College... 12 3 5
Trinity College  3 0 0
Victoria College   2 1 4
Medicine  7 1 6
Science     5 4 2
Total    29 9 17
Manitoba College of Arts     3 0 1
Medicine           1 0 0
Total      4 0 1
Lower Mainland  78
Island     24
Rest of Province    48
Total  ~150
5. The following statistics are quoted to show that the community in which a University is placed benefits far more thereby
than any other part of the Province. Therefore, if placed in the
largest community, the Provincial University extends its influence
over the greatest number. It is a well-known fact that the larger
American Universities draw half their attendance from their
immediate environment. We aim to show that the same holds
true in great measure for Canada also.
University of Toronto.
Total from Ontario, 3,387.
Total from Toronto, 1,285.
Ratio of attendance from Toronto to attendance from all
Ontario, 38%.
Ratio of attendance from Toronto to attendance from Ontario
outside of Toronto, 61.28%.
Grand total attendance at University, 3,934.
From Toronto, 1,287—32.7%,
McGill University.
Total number of students, deducting those taking special
short courses for teachers and the students in Victoria and Vancouver 1,351
From Montreal, Montreal West and Westmount, 435 or 32.11%
In Arts, from Montreal, Montreal West and Westmount 43.81%
In Applied Science, from Montreal, Montreal West and
Westmount   30.54%
In Medicine, from Montreal, Montreal West and West-
mount   12.23%
In Law, from Montreal, Montreal West and Westmount..  64.30%
The small percentage from Montreal who take Medicine in
McGill is probably due to the commercial and industrial character of the City, and also probably to the fact that the Medical
Department in Laval attracts many.
The following three examples are taken from American Universities :
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
Total attendance, 1,394.
From Minneapolis and St. Paul, 864 or 62%.
Minnesota is an excellent instance of a State where two large
cities close to each other overshadow the rest of the State and
furnish the larger proportion of the students to the University.
University of Washington, Seattle.
(a) Graduate School, 53.
From Seattle, 34."
(b) Total in all courses,.except summer school, 1,679.
From Seattle, 828 or 49%.
University of Oregon.
(a)    In Literature,  Science  and Arts  and in Engineering-
(these departments"are in Eugene), 612 students.
From Eugene 142 or 23.2%
From Portland ......:. .156 or 25.5%
In the School of Law (situated in Portland), 145.
From Eugene ...................None
From Portland   116 or 80%
11 The depressing effect upon education caused by the removal
of the University from a centre of population is strikingly noticeable in the University of Oregon. This University is situated in
Eugene, a town of 12,000, at the head of the Willamette valley.
The University has largely made the town. Yet it furnishes 142
of the students or 23.2%. Portland, the metropolis of the State,
and the centre of the most populous area, furnishes only 156
students or 25.5%.   The population of Portland is 200,000.
The University of Washington is in Seattle, a city of 250,000,
and the City of Seattle has 693 students in the same departments
as the 156 whom Portland sends to Eugene. Yet in law, where
the school is in Portland, the City of Portland supplies 116 of 145
or 80%. In the Department of Law in the University of Washington, Seattle supplies 67 students out of 162.
From these comparisons it may be seen that in Portland,
owing to the absence of the other faculties, an excessive number
of students are being forced into law. It is also clear that if all
the faculties were near Portland that City would make as good
a relative showing in all courses as does the City of Seattle in
the University of Washington.
The totals also are noticeable. In Literature, Arts and
Science, Engineering and Law, the University of Oregon has 757
students. In the same departments the University of Washington
has 1,679. There is no room for question that in the State of
Oregon hundreds of young people are going without University
education because of the unfortunate, though beautiful, site of
the University.
If further evidence is sought of the effect upon the higher
education of a city by the presence of a University, the cities of
Hamilton and Kingston may be compared.
Hamilton has a population of 70,000.
Kingston has a population of 20,000.
Kingston sends to Queen's University 207 students. The number of students from Hamilton in the faculties of Medicine and
Education at Toronto is not at hand. Otherwise students from
Hamilton number as follows:
At McGill, 12; at Queen's, 13; at Toronto (not including
Medicine and Education), 60. Total in McGill, Queen's and
Toronto (excluding students in Medicine and Education at
Toronto), 85.
The total number of students from Hamilton taking University courses is then a trifle over one hundred, just half the number from Kingston attending Queen's alone.
Clearly the more distant a community is from the University
the greater the difficulty in getting University education. Then
in no way could hardship be imposed upon a greater number than
by placing the University of British Columbia awav from the
6. The attitude of the people of the Lower Mainland toward
higher education is shown by the support given the following
(a) McGill University College of British Columbia.
In 1894, at the instance of friends of higher education in the
Province, who desired such relations between local high schools
and universities in other parts of the Empire as would tend to
the inception and promotion of university work in British Columbia, legislation was passed which empowered the affiliation of
high schools to recognized universities; and this was supplemented
in 1896 by an act providing for the incorporation of high schools
as colleges in accordance with the charters and constitutions of
such universities. Under these enactments Vancouver High
School became Vancouver College, and was admitted to affiliation
for the First Year in Arts by the Corporation of McGill University,
which had in the meantime secured such extension of its charter
powers as made possible the admission of extra-Provincial colleges to the relation of affiliation. Work was begun under this
relation in 1899, and by 1902 the work had grown so, and was of
such a character that an extension of affiliation was granted, to
cover the first two years in Arts and the University Intermediate
Examination. This year Victoria College, too, applied for and
obtained affiliation covering the First Year in Arts. Later the
need of university connection more intimate still and essential
than that of affiliation and also of extension of the scope of work
came to be felt and urged, and the result of much careful urging
and deliberation was the passage in 1906 of local legislation (1)
enacting that "the Governors, Principal, and Fellows of McGill
College and University may exercise and enjoy in the Province
of British Columbia all the powers, rights, privileges, and functions conferred upon them by the charter granted to them by His
late Majesty, King George IV., in the second year of his reign,
and amended by Her late Majesty, Queen Victoria, in the sixteenth
year of her reign"; and (2) authorizing the incorporation of a
body politic under the name of "The Royal Institution for the
Advancement of Learning of British Columbia, whereby the Royal
Institution shall undertake the conduct or administration of any
part of the higher education work now carried on by such
Boards,'' and also to '' establish at such place in British Columbia
as McGill University may designate a College for the higher education of men and women, such College, in respect of courses of
study an'' examinations, to be deemed a College of McGill University, and the instruction given to its students to be of the same
standard as that given in like subjects at McGill University at
In pursuance of the objects of its foundation, therefore, the
Royal Institution established in 1906, at Vancouver, the McGill
13 University College of British Columbia (by agreement with the
Board of School Trustees) taking over the Arts work previously
done by the Vancouver College, with extension of the scope and
of the options allowed, adding two years of Applied Science, and
in 1908 the Third Year in Arts.
In 1907 the act was amended so as to allow of the establishment of Colleges of the Royal Institution in other cities in the
Province, and in the following year the College at Victoria,
hitherto directly affiliated to McGill, came under the control of
the Royal Institution as a part of the McGill University College
of British Columbia, affording courses in the first two years in
Annual expenditure   $21,000
Revenue—Fees $ 2,500
Endowment subscription       3,075
Vancouver Council       5,000
Vancouver School Board   10,425
There is a building fund of $100,000 (half from citizens in
Vancouver City and half from an Eastern subscriber). This fund
was raised before the University Site Commission was appointed
and action is postponed pending decision as to the time of commencing work on the Provincial University.
(b)    Westminster Hall (Presbyterian Theological College).
The site and premises represent investment of $24,000
Two libraries, with endowment of     5,000
Archibald library, value       1,120
Vipond library endowed annually with           200
Value        500
Furnishings     3,000
Budget for 1908-09    10,100
Budget for 1909-10   14,100
Budget for 1910-11   17,000
Endowment fund at present 175,000
(All from Lower Mainland.)
Total students, 55.
Support from Lower Mainland, 75%.
Remainder from the Church as a whole.
Extract from statement made before University Commission:
Questioned:   In the event of the University site being located
on Vancouver Island, would it cause the removal of Westminster
Hall to that point ?
Answer:   I am not authorised by the Directorate of the Hall
to make any statement in this respect, but I am in a position to
say   that  the   General  Assembly   of  the   Presbyterian   Church
decided that its present location was the proper one for our college, and our experience since its establishment has so fully
demonstrated that the work can be more successfully carried on
here than at any other point in the Province; that any consideration as to its removal to another location, no matter where the
University may be planted, will never be contemplated.
Chairman Board of Directors, Westminster Hall.
(c)     Columbian Methodist College (at New Westminster).
The average annual attendance for the past four years is 188,
and it may be safely estimated that 50% of these are looking forward to a University course. The annual budget is $20,000. This
income is derived as follows:
Annual maintenance subscription $ 3,500
General Church funds      1,000
From students   15,000
This is the estimated expenditure as well as income, although
it does not include the private expenditure of students which
would probably add some thousands of dollars, and it does not
include money spent for additional buildings. The present value
of the college property is moderately estimated at $85,000. There
has just been raised a General Endowment fund of $105,000, of
which' $100,000 is secured from the Lower Mainland. The college
derives 90% of its students and 75% of its financial assistance
from the Lower Mainland. While the policy of the Methodist
Church is to associate its work with the Provincial University
wherever such may be placed, it can easily be perceived that a
site within a reasonable distance from its present plant would
enable it to make a larger investment in a federated university
than would be the case were it called upon to entirely surrender
its present work.
Principal Sipprell, in an extended report to the Commissioners, outlined the history, present work and future policy of the
college, and in conclusion said:
"In consideration of the facts we have now set forth before
your honorable body, we crave your consideration of the following matters concerning Columbian College and its relation to the
selection of the site of the proposed Provincial University:
"1. Columbian College has been carrying on University
work in Arts and Engineering for several years in affiliation with
.the University of Toronto.
"2. It has demonstrated its ability to do efficient University
work in the fact that it has produced five graduates in Arts in
Toronto University and that it is having continued success in its
examinations from year to year.
15 "3. Its work of the years has forced upon it an expenditure
of money in lands, buildings and equipment, which renders its
present position one of more or less permanency for the future.
"4. Its work has been one wherein it has borne burdens
without any aid whatever from the state, and in which it has not
asked for or received any special Provincial consideration.
"5. To remove from its present location any part of its work
would mean serious financial loss, while to retain its present location and carry on its work with the University near at hand would
result in the following important advantages:
"(a)   It would preserve the College from serious financial
" (b)   It would leave its finances greater for the expansion
of its present work as a College.
"(c)   It would preserve its integrity as an institution in
making financial appeals to the Methodist Church.
"(d)   It   would   prevent   the   duplication   of   instructors,
buildings, etc.
"(e)   It would preserve the integrity of its student body
and its present associations, which are the fruit of
years of effort.
" (f)   It would be a recognition of the efforts of the years
in the interest of higher education which have been
made by the institution with all the difficulties with
which it has had to contend.
"(g)   It would allow of the carrying on of the mission
work of the Theological College with a moderate
expense, which otherwise would be impossible.
"(h)   It would allow of instruction in special University
classes for a growing number of students in our
Ladies' College  and in  other departments of our
work who are not able and who do not desire to pursue a full University course.
" (i)   It might allow of interchange of work between the
Professors of the Provincial University and of Columbian College, which would reduce the expense of the
University to some considerable extent.
"We submit this report believing it to be in the interests of
education in British Columbia.   We desire to contribute, so far
as possible, to the success of the proposed Provincial University.
We hope that conditions will be such as will make it possible for
us to work in the closest possible relations with the proposed
University, and while we feel sure that the decision of your honorable body will be in the general interests of the Province, we
trust that, if possible, with those interests in view, the work that
the Columbian College has done during the years may be given
due consideration."
(d)    The Provincial Normal School (Located in Vancouver).
The attendance of students at the present session is 95.
From Lower Mainland     61
From Vancouver Island        22
From rest of Province     12
The faculty of education in the Provincial University, when
such faculty is established, will be greatly benefited if the Provincial Normal School and the Model School are easily accessible to
the students of the University.
(e) The Rev. Father Welch, 0. M. I., Superior of the Church
of Our Lady of the Holy Rosary, said that he fully agreed with
those who were convinced, and he felt conscientiously convinced,
that the most suitable site for the proposed new University was
Vancouver, or its immediate vicinity. Many arguments in favor
of this conviction had already been given. With the permission
of the Commissioners he would add one more.
It should be remembered that the Catholic Ecclesiastical
Province of Western Canada comprised the whole of British
Columbia, together with the Yukon. When this Ecclesiastical
Province was formed Victoria was named the metropolitan or
archiepiscopal See. The Archbishop resided in Victoria. Quite
recently, however, the Holy Father, Pope Pius X., had transferred the archiepiscopal See from Victoria to Vancouver. In
the Papal Brief the reasons given for this important change were
Vancouver's growing size and importance and greater facility
of approach.
Rome has had a long experience in these matters and seldom
makes a mistake, and he felt assured that if she were consulted by
this University Commission she would cast her vote in favor of
the Lower Mainland.
(f) The Ven. Archdeacon Pentreath briefly addressed the
Commissioners in the matter of the proposed Anglican College, for
which a considerable endowment fund has already been raised.
While it has been decided to build the College in connection with
the Provincial University, he, personally, felt success is very doubtful if this means a location other than on the Lower Mainland.
(g) The development of these institutions shows that in this
section alone has the need of higher education in the Province
been recognized and met. We do not claim that the University
should be placed here simply because of the presence of these
institutions. Nevertheless their existence and welfare does constitute a kind of moral claim, and moreover they show that in
the Lower Mainland there exists a generous interest in higher
education that would go far towards making the success of the
new University.
The University should be placed where it will be most
accessible to the present and future population of the Province
and where the attention and interest of the people are most
strongly directed. We have failed to find an educationalist of
note who advocates placing a State University in a rural grove or
quiet, inaccessible town where it would be attended mainly by
sons of the well-to-do who would go to college in any case. The
consensus of opinion favors a location not further than fifteen
miles from the metropolis, if the latter is easily accessible to the
whole population. There is no question that the Lower Mainland
is by far the most accessible locality in British Columbia. Every
railroad of the Province will shortly have terminals here; the
American transcontinentals are working this way, and every indication points to this as the greatest railway centre of the West.
Since the steamship traffic of the Province centres here, the University, if located here, would be most convenient and familiar
to the population of the coast districts, with the possible exception
of the west coast of Vancouver Island.
It has been shown above that, at the very least, one-half the
population of the Province is resident in this district, and that
this portion will most probably be maintained, because of
railroad and steamship activities, manufacturing conveniences
and the intensive farming of the Fraser Valley. Suitable, or
even ideal urban, suburban and rural sites, for the University
are available within this locality, and tramway development is
already such that several of them are already within daily reach
of practically the whole of this part of the population. This alone
would seem to us a sufficient argument in favor of our contention.
It is doubtful if such an opportunity of bringing the University
to the doors of the people it will serve has been offered before in
the history of Canada.
2.—Climate and Scenery.
It is doubtless of advantage that the University should be
situated in a locality where the climatic conditions are conducive
to the good health of the students. The climatic conditions of the
Lower Mainland are most favorable in this respect. It may be
that the upper country is more suitable for people with throat
and lung troubles, but such form a very small minority of college
students. Our climate is so equable that it permits of outdoor
exercise under fairly pleasant conditions during the whole year.
The absence of extremes may be gathered from the fact that we
have annually not more than fifty days with a temperature
above   70°, at least   two hundred and fifty   registering   above
50°, and usually two or three weeks of very moderately cold
weather. The cold, cutting winds that sweep up the Straits of
Juan de Fuca do not touch this district. Our schools and colleges
have never found it necessary to alter any program of outdoor
events for either men or women on account of rainfall during the
winter months, while our summer weather is admittedly the finest
in the Province. Moreover, while the rainfall in some parts of
the interior and the southern portion of Vancouver Island is
insufficient for agricultural purposes and the providing of a good
water supply, the Lower Mainland never suffers in this respect.
The purity of the water supplied to the cities of Vancouver and
New Westminster and the surrounding municipalities is unrivalled in Canada.
Since the climate of the Lower Mainland has been somewhat
misrepresented, we are led to quote the following statistics for
1909 from the two meteorological stations of Victoria and Vancouver .-
Victoria—Precipitation, 27.98 inches; mean relative humidity,
80; mean velocity of wind, 10.65; sunshine, 1944 hours.
Vancouver—Precipitation, 58.54 inches; mean relative humidity, 77; mean velocity of wind, 4.31; sunshine, 1879 hours.
The advantages derived from a University site surrounded by
pleasant scenery are not essential, but are important, and should
not be neglected. No location could be imagined presenting
grander scenic features than the Lower Mainland. The background of the mountains to the North and East, the river scenery
along the Fraser Valley, the wonderful fiords of Burrard Inlet
and Howe Sound, the primeval forest of Stanley Park, the Capi-
lano, Lynn and Seymour canyons, with the more peaceful agricultural scenery of the farm lands in the rural districts, furnish
a panorama unsurpassed for natural beauty and grandeur.
3. The advantages offered by the vicinity of a large and
active centre of population to the members of a University Faculty
are beyond dispute. In this connection we will quote from Mr.
Edwin E. Slosson, Ph. D., in "The Independent" of February 3,
"The more'highly specialized the work of the University
and the more closely it is connected With the work of the world,
the more necessary are the urban facilities. The medical men
need hospitals and -sanitary establishments. The students in
architecture, art and'-music require museums and operas. Lawyers, economists, sociologists, all' who 'are studying that branch of
zoology dealing with' the habits' of the political animal, seek the
localities'where they'find',, the"'greatest' abundance .of specimens.
It is easier in the cities 'to. get nieh 'of eminence in', the 'several professions" to devote at Beast 'a' part of their lime to academic duties.
An engineer who is good7 for ■• anything ean make'more than his salary by utilizing odd hours and vacations. His literary colleague finds it advantageous to be in close touch with editors and
publishers. Still more important, perhaps, is the opportunity of
association with men who are concerned with art, letters and
science in other than a pedagogical way. In a small college town
a professor finds his cultured associates almost exclusively in the
Faculty clique, and they, being absorbed in diverse lines of study,
have nothing in common to talk about except shop. Naturally he
comes to think that all the world's a school and all the men and
women merely teachers."
The Lower Mainland is the only district in British Columbia
that can offer these urban facilities, which are almost indis-
The General and Special Advantages Offered to the University
by the Lower Mainland.
4.    General advantages to students.
(a) Many students in modern Universities must earn their
way in whole or in part. It is evident that opportunities for doing so are correspondingly numerous in
the large city. Cornell was founded as a poor man's
University, and fees were made low and scholarships
generous with this end in view; but Ithaca is a small
town, and it is well known that for this reason alone
it has been impossible to realize the ideals of the
founder. Some consider it more desirable to have a
student leave home to attend college, but in a great
many cases this is impossible because of financial
reasons. A State University should be placed where it
will make a college course possible to the greatest
number. Finally, we are not prepared to admit that
living would be cheaper in any other part of the Province, books and clothing are certainly not dearer than
elsewhere, and the price of board will probably b<-
regulated by the college dormitories.
(b) A great deal is sometimes made of the supposed mora*
disadvantages of a large city. However, no one acquainted with the West would claim that our smaller
towns are morally cleaner or better governed than tfae
cities of New Westminster and Vancouver. Opportunities of dissipation will be brought to the neighborhood of the large University, wherever it is located.
No one claims that there is less dissipation or any
higher moral tone among the students of the Universities of Stanford and Oregon than those of California
and Washington. The world no longer acts as though
it believes that there is something so morally weakening in a college course that it is necessary to .take col-
lege men and women away from the surroundings of
their later lives with the quaint idea of removing them
from temptation.
(c) It is often claimed that the distractions of a large city
are such that studies are neglected. Surely, however,
the amount of work done by students allowed to remain at the University is under the control of the
Faculty, and why should a college student living five
or ten miles away not study as well as High School
students living in the heart of the city? The educative influence of a large city is no longer overshadowed by these supposed distractions and temptations.
(d) The Lower Mainland has a manifest advantage in two
lines of University activity, namely, in a large population to be served by evening classes, and in the possibility of lectures being given by prominent men outside the regular staff.
Special advantages in the studies of Art and Pure Sci-
(a) The literary subjects of the Arts course can, on the
whole, be studied as well in one place as another. The
University library is by far the greatest storehouse of
material in these branches, and for the rest the public
libraries of this great centre will ultimately be even
as valuable as that of the Legislature at the Capital.
The same may be said of some of the pure sciences
whose workshops are the laboratories and museums,
but it is essential that actual conditions should be met
in the study of such branches as sociology and economics, geology and biology. In these, we claim, the
Lower Mainland possesses peculiar advantages.
(b) Sociology and Economics. The study of banks and
exchanges, the administration of charity, the conditions of labor in factories and stores, the study of the
insane and criminal classes as illustrated in the asylums and jails, all depend for their success on the colleges being in or near a large town. Moreover, since
this is to be one of the most cosmopolitan centres of
population of the world, and the relations of the white
and yellow races, both locally and across the Pacific,
will in very few cities present such problems as in
ours, and we elaim that students should be allowed to
study the resulting conditions and our attempts at
their solution in the place where the work is done.
We need not do more than mention that the new and
rapidly growing University departments of Commerce
and Transportation ean not be satisfactorily developed elsewhere in this Province.
21 (c) Geology. The Lower Mainland of British Columbia
includes within its boundaries formations dating from
the Palaeozoic to the Modern, composed of rocks of
every type of deposition, plutonic, eruptive, water
sedimentaries and glacial deposits, and exhibiting
many of the structures typical of each class of terrane.
Within fifty miles of Vancouver itself the student may
observe the action of glaciers, of rivers in delta formation and erosion, in fact all forms of epigene action,
and may see a great variety of ore and coal deposits,
with several mines in operation on both coal and
metallic deposits, the latter including iron, copper,
gold and silver ores. For details we would refer to
the Geological Survey Reports, especially No. 996,
on a portion of the coast of British Columbia and
adjacent islands, by 0. E. LeRoy (1908).
The principal metal mines in operation in the district
are as follows:
(1)  The Britannia Mine,  on   Howe   Sound,  about
forty miles by water from Vancouver.
The Empress Mine, near the Britannia.
The Bonanza Mine, on Bowen Island.
The Surprise.
Copper Mines on
Texada Island.
The Silver Tip.
The Golden Slipper.
The Texada.
The Paxton.
The Lake.
The Red Cloud, Marble Bay, Cooper Queen, Cornell,
Little Billy and Loyal Mines are also producing mines,
some of them of large size, on Texada Island.
The coal mines at Nanaimo and Ladysmith, some
four or five in number, afford an excellent opportunity
for the study of this department of Engineering
(d) Zoology. With reference to the animal life, it may
be said that a very interesting land fauna is observable in nearly all parts of British Columbia. Of these
the larger species are not easily observable by students
in classes, and are best studied from museum specimens. The marine fauna of the coast is • one of the
richest to be found within the limits of the temperate
zones, having a many times larger number of species
than are found on the Atlantic coast of Canada, and
a considerably greater number of genera, and orders.
There are even some classes, such as sponges, very
well represented, which have little or no foothold along
the eastern litoral.
The Biological Station established by the Dominion
Government at Departure Bay is designed to furnish
facilities for students. It is only forty miles distant
from Vancouver, and is situated in one of the best
localities for collecting on the Coast.
The first of a series of valuable faunal studies conducted at the Biological Station is now in press.
(e) Botany. Six flora represented in British Columbia
depending upon (1) temperature, as determined by
altitude, and (2) humidity, or aridity. These six
floral zones are:
(1) Arctic of Arctic Alpine.
(2) Hudsonian.
(3) Canadian.
(4) Arid Transition.
(5) Humid Transition, or Pacific Red Fir.
(6) Upper Sonoran, Sagebrush Area.
The Upper Sonoran corresponds agriculturally with
the practical raising of Peaches, and is confined to the
southern part of the Okanagan Valley. The Humid
Transition includes the great moist forests of the Pacific Slope, characterized by such trees as Red Fir,
Giant Cedar, Red Alder, Oregon Maple, the
characteristic flora of the coast region at low altitudes, and the most important and varied floral region
of the Province.
The Arid Transition Zone includes two types, (a)
bunch grass prairies, and (2) the yellow pine forests,
mainly represented in any belt of the interior of the
Province or upper country.
The Canadian Zone, which is found at elevations of
from 1400 to 5000 feet altitude, is characterized by
such trees as the Western White Pine, Lodge Pole
Pine, Western Larch and Western Hemlock.
The Hudsonian Zone extends up to tree-line on the
mountains, beginning at about 5000 feet or less in
southern British Columbia, and includes the Alaskan
Cedar, the Sub-Alpine Fir, the Black Hemlock and
the White Bark Pine.
The Arctic Zone consists of those plants which flourish in the Alplands between timber line and the edge
of the permanent snows.
As we proceed northward in the Province the altitudes at which these various zones of vegetation are
found decreases, so that the Upper Sonoran and Tran-
23 6.
sition Zones disappear and are replaced at sea level by
the Canadian, and the Hudsonian and Arctic become
correspondingly more prominent and nearer the sea
It follows that the greatest variety of plants for
study within the limits of any one district must occur
in the southern parts of the Province, in parts where
there are mountains extending above timber line. This
condition is met most fully by the southern mainland
in the coast regions, where four of the six floras are
to be found, namely, (1) the Humid Transition, (2)
the Canadian, (3) the Hudsonian, and (4) the Arctic.
Of the remaining two zones, the Upper Sonoran occupies only a small area in the Province, and some features at least of the Arid Transition area are to be
found along the east coast of Vancouver Island in the
vicinity of Nanaimo.
The Humid Transition or characteristic coast flora
includes three types, (a) the forest type, (b) the prairie
type, (c) the bottom land type. Of these, the first is
the most prominent and is found everywhere on moderately high ground with good soil. The bottom land
type is especially well developed on the flood plains
and delta of the Fraser River, including the Chilliwack
and Sumas prairies, the Pitt River meadows and the
Besides the regular zonal floras described above, the
coast district presents a sphagnum (bog flora) on the
islands of the Fraser delta, a salt marsh flora, and a
very interesting marine flora in the waters of the Gulf
of Georgia.
General advantages for professional schools.
(a) The Faculties of the Professional Schools must be composed of eminent doctors, lawyers and engineers.
Under modern conditions these must practice their profession outside of their regular work as college professors. No other locality in British Columbia gives
any promise of ever offering sufficient inducements to
such men.
(b) The Faculties must be in touch with professional and
technical work in order to keep pace with the advancement in their own lines. That is, they must be able to
study at first hand the work that is done and be able
to associate privately and in societies with leading men
of their profession.
(c) The equipment and resources of the modern professional and technical world are being placed more and
more at the disposal of the  colleges for study and
experimentation. This means greater opportunities
for Faculty and students, and actual donations of
equipment for the making of tests and the gathering
of information. This work can be done only in colleges which are in touch with the headquarters of professional and technical activity. It goes without saying that the Lower Mainland is and must always be
this headquarters for British Columbia.
(d) Students must be given an opportunity of examining
the best practical work that is being done in their own
department. If this is not possible in the city in which
their college is placed long trips must be taken. For
example, students of Toronto and Queen's visit the
power plants at Niagara Falls, and the mining students
of McGill have to make annual trips, as far as Sydney,
C. B., and British Columbia. We speak advisedly
when we claim there is probably no University in the
world more favorably situated in this respect than our
Provincial University would be if placed on the Lower
(e) It is very desirable that students should have the greatest possible opportunity for becoming acquainted with
men in practical work in their own department, that
their college situation should be of the greatest advantage to them in securing employment in their own
lines during the vacation, and, finally, that they should
become familiar with the actual conditions of their
work after graduation..
7. In regard to the special case of the Medical College, we
incorporate the report of a sub-committee of medical men who
have thoroughly investigated the conditions:
"In commencing our report we would say that the Medical
Profession of the Lower Mainland is far from being a unit in
favor of the establishment of a Medical College, nor do we think
that the time is yet necessarily ripe. But it is evident that at
some time in the future the question must arise, and that it is
intimately bound up with the location of the University. Your
Committee finds unanimously and without hesitation that Vancouver is the only place in the Province at all suitable for the
location of a Medical College.
"In support of our position we would point out that Vancouver is and will be the centre of the most populous district of
the Province. In consequence of this it follows that injury and
disease are present in greater quantity and variety than elsewhere. This aggregation of 'ills of the flesh', constituting, in
technical language, 'clinical material', lies at the very foundations
of all successful medical teaching.
"In order to accommodate the sick and the injured, and at
25 the same time to make the cases available for study and teaching,
large, well-equipped and modern hospital accomomdation is necessary. * We give in detail the capacity of Vancouver and New
Westminster in this respect:
"The Vancouver General Hospital, with 350 beds when completed.
"St. Paul's Hospital, with 250 beds when completed.
"St. Luke's Hospital, with 30 beds.
^     "Royal Columbian Hospital, New Westminster, with its contemplated maximum of 180 beds.
"The Public Hospital for the Insane, New Westminster, with
accommodation for 550 patients.
"Private institutions, mainly in Vancouver, with an aggregate of 200 beds.
" Large centres of population and large hospitals require the
services of a numerous body of medical men, among whom will
probably be found many of very considerable capacity, attracted
there by the wealth of opportunity. In the event of the founding
of a Medical College near such centre of population its Faculty
would be largely drawn from the surrounding practitioners. In
Vancouver and New Westminster some 150 medical men are available, which number is constantly increasing. In passing, your
Committee desires to draw attention to the existence of the Vancouver Medical Association, which for the past twelve years has
been doing excellent work in Sciences, as well as in other fields
of medical interest. The So.ciety has a membership of 120, possesses a library of over 2000 volumes housed in rooms of its own,
employs a Librarian, and acts generally as the centre of the medical life of the community. We instance this as showing, that
the habit of and capacity for organized work is here.
"We would also point out that, through the kindness of
friends in Great Britain, influential members of the Royal Society,
q,ur Association has been offered a considerable collection of scientific works of a general character, hardly suitable for a specialized Medical Library, but of very great value in that of a gen^
eral University.
"The situation of Vancouver as a port with a large and increasing sea-borne traffic, reaching our shores from many tropical and subtropical climates, brings before the medical men of
this city many of the rarer forms of disease. This, of course, is
of inestimable benefit to both teacher and taught, and might in
time lead to the special study of these affections here,
"Anatomy can only be taught in large centres of population
where the necessary requirements can be obtained, and this particular science is as essential to the doctor today as ever it was,
" Our contention is further strengthened by the necessity for
placing a Medical College where it can be used by the greatest
number at the least expense.   It is obvious that large cities will
supply a greater proportion of students than more thinly settled
districts, and, moreover, those coming from outside can be more
easily accommodated and have the benefit of educational facilities
along other lines brought within their reach.
"Finally, your Committee would point out the necessity of
having the Medical College situated reasonably near the University (presuming the University to be a teaching body). Much of
the earlier work in medicine, such as Chemistry, Botany, Zoology,
Embryology, etc., may be taken more advantageously and more
economically in conjunction with the general scientific course of
a University than if taught by separate professors in a Medical
College. Generally speaking, men teaching special subjects of
this sort have had special training, are brought from outside and
command good salaries. It is therefore desirable that their work
should carry over as wide an area as possible.
"The summing up of our position is this: The only possible
location for a Medical College is on the Lower Mainland. For
the earlier years of the course a position contiguous to the scientific teaching of the University is a necessity for the best and
most economical results, and it is desirable to break up the course
by taking the final years in a distant city. This brings our support to the location of the University as near as possible to the
centre of population on the Lower Mainland.
"The following list of the twenty most important Medical
Schools in the United States shows that they are practically all
in large cities and departments of great Universities:
Schools of Medicine of the United States.
v.                  iBaP> fp.« *« iu;H>n.;fit            Attetrf- A Beaartsaat of same UnitsrsRy              Atteaa'-.
Ni.                 Apart franaaiUanarsity             fflM Deaartmeit af Metieiat at-                   aace
1  University of Louisville 475
2.    Jefferson  Medical  College.586
3  University of Chicago 562
4  University of Pennsylvania 559
5  Northwestern  University 537
6  University of Illinois  476
7  Tulane University of Louisiana 475
8.    Medico-Chirurgical College 461
9  Medical College 445
10.    Memphis   Hospital   Medical
College 442
11  Valparaiso University 383
12  University of Michigan 378
13  Tuft's College 359
14  Columbia University 345
15.  Johns-Hopkins University 344
16  University of Pittsburg 340
17.    Long   Island   College   Hospital 335
18  University of Maryland 329
19  St. Louis University 322
20.    Baltimore Medical College..307
" J. M. PEARSON, M. D.,
"Chairman Committee on Medical College."
27 8.-^Tbe Case of the Law SchooL
.Purely academic study of law has always been found inadequate. Very few Law Societies—and with good reason—will
at once admit a man to the Bar, even though graduated in law
from some University. The combination of office experience and
.'academic course of study is, in the estimation of the Legal Profession, the best form of legal education. The facilities for a
\ fully equipped office experience are to be found with greater certainty and in greater numbers in large than in small centres of
population^-in fact, they may be considered to vary in these respects directly with the population.
On the Lower Mainland there are 51 law. firms, comprising
185 lawyers, while on Vancouver Island there are only 41 law
firms, comprising 65 lawyers.
There are 81 law students in the whole of the Province of
-British Columbia, of which number 53 reside and study in Van-
.couyer, while 4 reside and study in New Westminster.
;-:■■•• There remains further the greater possibilities for obtaining
skilled lectures, such as leading Counsel of the Province, in a
large than in a small centre of population, a most important item
to any institution.
From a material point of view the fact cannot be disregarded
that it is highly advantageous to the student at law to become
acquainted where the greatest opportunities for the future lie.
That the prospects of success are most numerous in the largest
city of the Province-is scarcely open to question.
Finally, oh the side of the Bar, it may be urged that the presence of the Law School elsewhere than in the largest centre of
population would deprive by far the greater portion of the Legal
Profession in the Province of British Columbia of the services of
students and entail great confusion and increased expense in connection with office work.
In addition to being located in a large centre of population,
it is highly expedient that the Law School of the Province should
be located in the same place as the other departments of the Provincial University, particularly the Faculty of Arts. With both
Law and Arts Faculties located in the same city it will be possible
for those intending to enter the Legal Profession more easily to
combine a Law and Arts course of study—by no means an inconsiderable boon to the student at law. Nor are the advantages to
be derived from such a unity entirely on one side; it can not be
but ah advantage to students of Arts to study some of the broader
studies which are included in every Law Curriculum, such as
■Constitutional Law, Roman Law, International Law and Legal
History. There remain still the athletic advantages to be derived
by the law students from contact with the University.
In the   United   States,   out   of   the   thirty   largest   Law
Schools all but six are departments of the greater Universities,
and these six are all situated in large cities.
Finally, steps have already been taken by the Barristers and
Students at Law of British Columbia towards establishing a Law
School in Vancouver, and from time to time leading Counsel of
the city have voluntarily delivered occasional lectures to the
student body in this city. That the nature of the work of the
Legal Profession and students along these lines may be more fully
comprehended, a copy of the Petition to the Benchers in this behalf has been appended to this treatise.
To the Benchers of the Law Society of British Columbia:
"PETITION of the Students-at-Law and Articled Clerks of British Columbia to the Benchers of the Law Society of British
"Gentlemen—The Petition of the undersigned StudentS-at-
Law and Articled Clerks humbly sheweth—
"1. That there are 74 Students-at-Law and Articled Clerks
now in the Province of British Columbia, of which 54 reside and
study in the Cities of Vancouver and New Westminster, and of
this number 50 reside and study in Vancouver.
"2. That the Vancouver Law Students' Society, composed
of the Students-at-Law and Articled Clerks of Vancouver and
New Westminster has put itself on record as being in favor of
petitioning your honorable selves for the establishment of a Law
School in the City of Vancouver.
"3. That according to a statement issued by the Secretary
of the Law Society the Students-at-Law and Articled Clerks of
this Province between the 31st of January, 1908, and the 31st of
January, 1909, paid into the Law Society of British Columbia as
fees for preliminary and intermediate examinations $1440, as fees
for calls and admission $3600, making a total of $5040.
"4. That there is now no provision in the Province of British Columbia for the giving of lectures on legal subjects to law
"5. That your petitioners are desirous of having a Law
School established by the Law Society of British Columbia in the
City of Vancouver, having a resident Dean who would act as
Registrar in addition to arranging a schedule of lectures.
"6. That the Law Society will make such adequate appropriation for the salary of the Dean and towards the remuneration
of the lecturers as circumstances shall warrant.
"7. That under the auspices of the Law School at least six
lecturers should be secured, to be suitably remunerated out of the
funds of the Law Society, and that the students should be afforded at least three lectures per week for a period of six months
in the year on subjects included in the curriculum of the Law
Society for intermediate and final examination. "8. That such lectures should be made compulsory on
Students-at-Law and Articled Clerks residing in Vancouver by
such measure as the Law Society may approve.
'' Signed by all the Law Students on the Mainland of British
The Law Students in Victoria refused to sign because they
felt that the location of the Law School in Vancouver would
prejudice the authorities in favor of locating the Provincial University there also.
'' To the Benchers of the Law Society of British Columbia:
"Gentlemen—We, the undersigned Barristers and Solicitors
of the Province of British Columbia, have been informed of the
Petition to the Benchers of the Law Society by the Students-at-"
Law and Articled Clerks asking that a properly organized Law
School be established for the better instruction of the students,
and are of the opinion1 that such an institution would be of material benefit to them in their preparation and training for the
Legal Profession, and trust that the Benchers will favorably consider the petition of the said students.
Signed by all the Barristers and Solicitors of British Columbia to whom it was possible to present the petition, with the exception of 4 out of the 45 in Victoria—that is to say, 166 practitioners.
Dated March, 1909.
Law Schools of the United States.
Na. Apart fron »n» tomersity »««»<■
1.    New York Law School 1050
8. Chicago-Kent Law College   470
14.    Illinois Law College  311
18.    Boston  Y.  M.   C.  A.  La*y
School   276
A Departmeot af same Oobersify Atttai-
Law Departments ef— aace
University of Michigan   856
New York University..      742
Harvard University   690
Yale University   650
University of Minnesota     C02
Georgetown University.     525
University  of  Texas  388
George Washington University 337
Columbia University  330
University of Pennsylvania  327
Northwestern University  322
University of Chicago  303
University of Virginia....   290
Boston University ..„ 285
University of Missouri , 274
St. Lawrence University  274
9.—The Colleges of Applied Science.
(a) The School of Mines. Within easy distance for a Saturday's trip we have the great copper and gold mines
of the Britannia Company, on Howe Sound; the immense iron deposits, as well as the copper and gold
mines of Texada and the other islands of the Gulf of
Georgia; the coal mines of Nanaimo^ as well as ore
deposits now being developed in various localities such
as those at the head of the Lynn and Seymour canyons.
Various great smelters could be visited on the same
trips. This is the headquarters for the distribution of
mining and smelting equipment of the Province, as
well as for the commercial and government assaying.
As we have shown in Part 5 of this section, practically every geological formation in the Province can
readily be studied here. It is very doubtful if a better
combination of natural advantages for the study of
mining could be offered by even our famous mining
district in the Boundary Country.
(b) Electrical Engineering. The power plants of the British Columbia Electric at Lake Buntzen and Coquitlam,
and that of the Stave Lake Power Company, are said
to present as great a variety of problems of the generation of electrical power as any other plants in the
world. It is estimated that there are capable of being
developed within reach of the Cities of New Westminster and Vancouver at least 300,000 horse power,
of which the two plants just mentioned represent
100,000. This is the headquarters for British Columbia
of the great electrical manufacturing firms. We have
found in our Applied Science work in McGill College,
in the City of Vancouver, that the representatives of
these firms are most willing, as a matter of business
policy, to make equipment and data available for the
use of college men. All the problems of electrical
transmission -and power consumption are splendidly
illustrated in this locality.
(c) Civil and Mechanical Engineering. For the next generation, at the very least, the Lower Mainland of British Columbia will be a veritable cosmos of manufacturing and constructive engineering. To show that this is
a reasonable statement we need only mention—
Railway and steamship terminal facilities for the
Grand Trunk Pacific, Canadian Northern, Great Northern, Canadian Pacific and British Columbia Electric
Harbor improvements and docks on Burrard Inlet,
31 the North Arm and Main Channel of the Fraser River,
and more especially the gigantic reclamation projects
of False Creek.
Railway and, city bridges over all the above-
mentioned waters.
The grading, sewage and water supply problems for
a rapidly growing metropolis.
Under modern conditions of technical education
such an industrial city can not long remain without a
Technical College.
i_____ 10.—The Agricultural College.
The best American thought favors a development of the
Agricultural College as a department of the University work, as
distinguished from the agricultural trade schools for the training
of farmers. The work of the College should be the training of
teachers of agriculture and men capable of experimentation, and
not farmers, as the Engineering School is not called upon to train
the mechanics in our factories.   In this respect Dr. Pritchett says:
"We have now come, as it seems to me, to a point where the
Agricultural College ought clearly to define its own mission. That
mission seems to me to be the work of a true college, with its
experts and experiment stations and its means of distribution.
The time has come when it must be clearly admitted that such a
College can contribute only indirectly to trade education. Once
this is admitted the place of such an institution becomes distinctive and clearly outlined, and under such a conception the agricultural and mechanical colleges should hold to college standards
and drop secondary education altogether."
Dr. David Starr Jordan, President of Leland Stanford, Jr.,
University, of California, says in part:
"Concentration gives strength. The agriculturalist needs
the work in language, literature, mathematics, etc., as given in
the University. The University needs the strengthening presence
of agriculture and its student. A University, means a place for all
forms of training. The Department of Agriculture should be
developed to the very highest degree. It is, however, I believe,
a mistake to suppose that agriculture, or medicine, or law, or
engineering, can be effectively taught in schools devoted absolutely to the single subject, away from Universities and away
from each other. The agricultural work strengthens the rest of
the University^ and on the other hand the Agricultural Depart-
ent needs to draw on all the language teaching, mathematical
teaching, science and other teaching which is characteristic of
the University."
What we would covet for British Columbia would be such an
agricultural college in the university, having as its preparatory
.schools; experimental and model farms in different sections of
the Province, each farm having its agricultural trade school for
the training of the coming farmers of its community.
We claim that the Lower Mainland offers greater opportunities than any other part of the Province to such an agricultural college of university calibre, developed as a department of
the university.
["[ It has been shown in a previous section that in, and tributary
to the Lower Mainland, we have by far the most varied and ex-
' tensive farming communities of the Province. The bottom delta
lands of the Fraser constitute one of our most valuable assets,
the higher lands of the Valley are typical of the whole coast and
island region. The irrigated fruit lands of the Similkameen will
be within easy reach when the lines over the Hope Mountains
:are completed, while the irrigated districts of the Upper Fraser,
i Thompson and Okanagan valleys are already tributary to this
From a commercial standpoint the location is close to the
base of supplies, not only for provincial but tropical and subtropical sources, thus giving ample opportunity for studying international methods of packing, marking, and the general handling and marketing of commercial products. In the market
work there is most convenient access to commercial and local
marketing and the greatest facility for the study of export and
import problems. On.the subject of transportation there would
be a great diversity of opportunity for studying steamboat work
in both salt water and fresh water trade, electric and steam railway work, coastwise, ocean and river service, carriers for large
city and open markets, etc.
Attention is called to the advice of great educators in the
matter of the place of the Agricultural College in the university
as given incidentally in Part VII. of this memorandum.
11.—School of Forestry. .
1. The whole trend of professional opinion both in America
and Europe is in favor of forestry schools being most intimately
associated with the larger universities, both as regards location
and administration. A notable example of this trend of opinion
is the recent removal of the British Forest School from Cooper's
Hill to Oxford, where it has become a Department of Oxford
The advantages of such intimate association are mutual. The
University may provide in a way rarely possible in an independent
Forestry School for the teaching of the mathematical, scientific
and other non-technical courses. On the other hand the Forestry
School may, and should, adapt many of its technical and semi-
■K? technical courses (e.g., timber physics) so as to be of the utmost
interest and value to engineers, architects and other students.
2. Aside from proximity to the University, the two points
of prime importance to be considered in locating a School of
Forestry are the relation of the site to opportunity for field work
and for studies in the utilization and distribution of forest
It is evident that the Lower Mainland is the most central
point from which to reach the various forest regions of the
Province. Of even greater advantage is the fact that a greater
variety of forest types may be found in its immediate vicinity
than in any other portion of the Province, making possible an
almost endless variety of one-day field excursions.
3. The Lower Mainland is now and must always remain
the greatest centre for the utilization and distribution of forest
products in the Province. The facilities for the study of these
features of forest work are at the present time not only unap-
proached in any other district of the Province, but are unsurpassed anywhere in the whole world.
The immediate future promises additional facilities in this
regard in the further development of the wood pulp industry,
the establishment of a paper manufacturing industry, the ereetion
of a steam turbine mill, with all machines driven as separate units
electrically, the manufacture of turpentine and other products
from present waste, and in many other directions.
The Influence of Location Upon the Development of Other
(A) From the experience of the State Universities of this
Continent we may learn :—
(1) That where the State University was originally placed
in the largest centre of population or in close proximity thereto,
it has proved a success and has developed into the greatest institution of its state in point of attendance and standing. There
has been no need to establish other state colleges at other points.
This is shown by the results in sixteen States of the American
Union, and the.Provinces of Ontario and Manitoba in Canada.
States^ where the State University was placed in close proximity to the largest centre of population:—
Name »f State
Data of Found.
sf State Univ.
Atteodaace Compared with Other Colleges
fa the Same State
Atteadaice of Second College
No others
Largest (3452)
Stanford 1686
No others
(a) Only large Univ. (2210)
Bethany 896
Only large Univ. (4720)
Agri. Coll. 1142
Only large Univ. (4667)
St. Olaf 497
Only large Univ. (3266)
Wesleyan (920)
No others
North Carolina 178?
Largest (786)
Shaw Univ. 531
Oklahoma (6)
rA^ntuLafgest 636 (651)
Oklahoma Coll. 611     .
Largest (805)
Brigham Young Coll. 734
Largest (537)
Middlebury 228
Largest (1679)
State Coll. 660
Only large Univ. (4521)
Concordia 911
Only large Univ. (1833)
Baylor 979
No others
(«)—Not including Kansas Agricultural College.
(jb)—Considered by Carnegie Foundation in too small a centre, tho' close to Oklahoma City.
N.B.—District of Columbia has three large colleges all in
Washington City.
(2) That where the State Universities were originally located at a considerable distance from the largest centre of population there have very frequently sprung up in those centres
previous to or since the founding of the State Universities, universities which in standing and" attendance have outdistanced the
State Colleges. This has been the case in nine of the United
' States in which the State University was originally placed
away from centre of population, and where the centres have established more flourishing institutions:—
*fc ,,.,„ location of State       Date of      Attend- Other Large Callages in „ ..      Attead-
St"e College Fond.       ance the State *»<*      anas
Colorado Boulder 1861   1,041   Denver College, Denver   1864   1324
Georgia Athens 1785      502   Atlanta Bapt. Atlanta .. 1867]
Atlanta Univ., Atlanta . 1867 [-. 0Ka
Georgia Tech. School .. 1888 f1*^3
Morris Brown College .. 1885 J
Illinois Urbana 1867   4,633   Univ. of Chicago, Chicago 1892 6,360
N. W. Univ.,  Evanston 1851 4,283
Armour Inst, of Technology, Chicago  1895     808
Louis Inst., Chicago ... 1896 1,177
Kentucky Lexington 1865 645 Univ. Louisville, Louisville 1837 988
Louisiana Baton Rouge 1877 657 Tulane Univ., New Orleans 1845 1,087
Ohio Athens 1804   1,035   Univ. Cincinnati, Cincinnati 1874 1,394
OhioStateUniv., Columbus 1870 1,351
Rhode Is. Kingston 1892 284 Brown, Univ., Providence 1764 993
Tennessee      Knoxville       1794      887   Vanderbilt University.. 1872     988
Univ. of Nashville  1826 1,112
Walden University  1866     843
FiskeUniv., Nashville.. 1867     350
Pennsylvania State College 1859   1,209   University of Penn 1755 4,126
Temple University 1888 1,648
Cent. HighSchool, Phila. 1838 2,223
Univ. of Pittsburg, Pittsburg 1819 1,243
(3) That where there have been long established universities in the greatest centres of population these have proved sufficient for the purposes of higher education and the state has felt
no need to establish an institution under government control. Of
this we have five examples in the United States, and the Province
of Quebec in Canada.
States where there are no State Universities, but others,
mainly in large centres, have proved sufficient:—
State Chief laitersity Sitaatiaa Date ef Fane'.    Attentate
Connecticut Yale New Haven     1701 3,434
Maryland John Hopkins Baltimore        1867 731
Massachusetts      Harvard Cambridge       1638 3,918
Boston Boston 1869 1,244
Mass. Inst, of Technology   Boston 1861 1,462
New Hampshire   Dartmouth' Hanover 1769 1,233
New York Columbia New York       1810 4,'750
College of N. Y. City New York       1854 4,611
New York University New York       1831 3,695
Polytechnic Brooklyn 1854 1,364
Cornell Ithaca 1865 3,985
(4)    That where the State University was placed away from
the chief centre of population and no larger and more important
university has yet sprung up, we find—
(a)' That in seven out of twelve cases the state has found it
advisable to establish other government colleges in other locations,
thus incurring all the disadvantages of decentralization.
(b) In two notable cases, Iowa and Missouri, colleges established in the chief centre of population later than the foundation
of the State University, have had a very rapid growth and
reached a high standard.
States where State University was placed in a situation remote from a large centre of population and where no other larger
college has sprung up.
Name Date of Found.   Site of State University Other State Colleges Lecation Date
Alabama 1820   Univ. Alabama   Ala. Polytechnic   Auburn 1872
Arkansas 1871    Fayetteville
Idaho 1889   Moscow
Indiana 1828   Bloomington        Purdue Univ. La Fayette    1862
Iowa 1847   Iowa City Coll. of Agri. &
Mechanic Arts    Ames 1858
Maine 1865   Orono
Oregon (c) 1876   Eugene Agri. College Corvallis 1870
South Dakota    1862   Vermillion School of Mines     Rapid City     1886
Virginia 1819   University Polytechnic Inst.   Blacksburg    1872
W. Virginia       1868   Morganton
Missouri (6)       1839   Columbia
Montana has three State Institutions but no great centre of population.
(a) Iowa—Drake University (Des Moines), 1,789 students, founded 1881.
Iowa State University, 2,437 students, founded 1847.
Illustrating tendency to develop a University in the large centre.
(6) Missouri—State University, 2.856 students, founded 1839.
St. Louis University. 1,(B8 students, founded 1832.
Washington University (St. Louis), 1,058 students, founded 1853.
Christian Bros. College (St. Louis), 502 students, founded 1851.
Illustrated the same.   Situation of State University condemned by Dr. Pritchett.
(e) University of Oregon has its Law and Medical Departments in Portland, Ore., and a new
independent college is now being established in that city.
B.—The European Universities.
England is perhaps the most conservative country in the
world in the development of educational systems. The spirit of
Oxford and Cambridge has guided the life of England for centuries. Nevertheless, in response to the imperative demands of
modern conditions, the newer universities are being established,
not in environments similar to those of Oxford and Cambridge,
but actually in the heart of large industrial centres. The universities of London, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and
Sheffield have already a greater attendance than those of Oxford
and Cambridge, and their numbers are rapidly increasing.
In Scotland, all the large universities have from the beginning
been in the centres of population, and they have long been in
the front rank.
Moreover, the great progressive "Arbeit" universities of Germany are those established in the large cities of Berlin, Leipzig,
Munich and Dresden.
The universities in small cities, while, perhaps, retaining their
reputations in art and pure sciences, are not taking a leading part
in the development of German national life like the sister universities of the greater centres. The same may be said of the institutions of Prance and Austria.
If the theoretically ideal site for a university were in a rural
district or a small city, the fact would still remain that students
cannot be induced to attend institutions so located, whereas there
is never anv lack of students at universities situated in or near
37 large centres, and the influence of the latter is correspondingly
greater. We can see no reason why the same should not hold true
in British Columbia.
6. Dr. Pritchett, in many places in his reports, earnestly
recommends that the University should be in the centre of population, e.g., in 3rd annual report of Carnegie Foundation, page 80.
"Nothing has been more striking in the development of the
State Universities and Colleges than the general lack of appreciation of the value of a fitting environment in the upbuilding and
development of a college or university. Such institutions have
often been placed by the vote of the legislature in accordance
with geographical or political considerations, without the slightest
appreciation of the fact that the interests not only of education
but of the people of the whole State were being sacrificed. In
many cases these institutions have been founded in little villages
near the geographic centre of the state without regard either
to the possibilities of a university in or near a large city, or to
the question of transportation facilities. For example, the University of Missouri and the University of Illinois, both in great
and rich states, are in villages, and so situated that it is very difficult to reach them from many parts of the state. Each of them
conducts part of its professional instruction in a distant city. If
the one had been originally placed in the suburbs of St. Louis,
and the other in the immediate vicinity of Chicago, the interests
of education and of the public would have been served.
"Perhaps one of the most glaring cases is in the State of Colorado. Denver, the chief city of Colorado, is also its capital and
the centre of its transportation system. It was the one obvious
place in which the State University ought to have been situated,
alike in the interest of the people of the whole State and of education itself. Instead, the State institution was split into three parts,
and each of these located in a small and comparatively inaccessible
"On the other hand, some states have dealt with wise forethought, concentrating their efforts into the development of one
great institution and placed this in a centre of population and
transportation. The University of Wisconsin at Madison, the
capital of the State and a city of refinement and beauty; the
University of California at Berkeley, adjoining San Francisco;
the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis, are examples of such
solutions. It is worth much to a boy from a small town to live
during his college years in touch with a great community like
San Francisco or Minneapolis-St. Paul. The general opportunities
for culture, refinement and intercourse with men are far better
in such places. In the long run, universities in isolated towns are
apt to reach limits beyond which they cannot go, and in many
cases are compelled to conduct part of their work—for example,
the professional schools of law and medicine—in cities.
The real question which a State should solve in founding a
university or a college is: Where may the institution be so placed
as to secure the best results for the education of those who are
to attend it and to serve at the same time the interests of all the
people of the State? To answer such a question intelligently,
one ought to consider other agencies of higher education in the
State, the advantages of location, the presence of a large and cultured community, the ease and economy of transportation for the
whole population.
Page 83.
"Separated from the dust of the political campaign which
has somewhat obscured the view of the public, the bare facts are
these: The University of Oklahoma was established some seventeen years ago at the small town of Norman on the Santa Fe
Railroad. The then territory of Oklahoma followed the example
of most Western States and unfortunately placed its State University in a small village instead of a centre of population and
transportation. Like most state institutions of its region, the
University has grown and flourished. Its president proved an
effective officer and at the time the Carnegie Foundation was
established, the Oklahoma University was the only State University in the South whose entrance requirements equalled those of
good colleges in other parts of the United States.
Page 89.
"The regents of the Oklahoma University have it in their
power to render a signal service to education and to their State.
Just north of Norman is Oklahoma City, a centre of population
and transportation, the obviously fit site for their State University.
If the governing board of the University of Oklahoma will address
themselves seriously and energetically to the problem of the removal of the University and its housing in suitable quarters in
the outskirts of Oklahoma City on a plan commensurate with the
resources of this great new State, they will confer lasting honor
on themselves and earn the gratitude of generations yet unborn.
Such a movement is worthy of a great and progressive state.
In favour of centralizing all the work of the Provincial University we advance the following arguments:—
1. The general advantages to students where all departments of the University are centralized may be briefly outlined
as follows:—
(a) The advantages in meeting as many men as possible
of alert minds whose interests are along lines other than their
own. This results in a widened outlook, increased mental stimulus
and extended sympathies.
(b) Student organizations and activities are among the most
important factors of the university life. These can be rendered
much more efficient and of greater educational value in proportion
to the numbers belonging to the organization.
(c) The physical training of students has of late years
become one of the important features of the university curriculum.
The equipment and instruction for this work can hardly be made
efficient in separate small colleges.
(d) The old solidarity in student life has been destroyed
by the widening of the curriculum and the failure of the dormitory
system in the greater universities. Inter-collegiate sport is at
present the one unifying factor in student life. This unity of
student life in the Provincial University would be lost if the
colleges were established in different localities. In this respect
President Nichols of Dartmouth University says: "Intercollegiate
sports do more to unite the whole college and give it a sense of
solidarity than any other undergraduate activity, and thus serve
a worthy purpose. Moreover, the lessons of sport are lessons
of life, and it is the moral worth rather than the physical benefit
of athleties which we can ill afford to lose from student life."
(e) Greater opportunities for combined courses are offered
to students in a centralized university.
2. Needless duplication of course is avoided by centralization
since many courses are taken in common by students attending
colleges of Arts, Applied Science, Law, Medicine, Agriculture
and Theology.
3. The centralized university could command a better staff,
(a) Greater inducements could be offered to men of the
highest attainments in the various departments.
(b) Larger classes, in the purely lecture courses at any
rate, mean a smaller proportion of professors to students, and
therefore, less waste of funds.
41 4. Available funds being the same, there would be better
equipment in the centralized university because of the absence
of the duplication which must necessarily occur in separated colleges. It would be impossible to provide funds to efficiently equip
those colleges which must be established in the near future.
5. The separation of state colleges means harmful rivalry
(a) Competition for students is apt to lead to the lowering
of standards of work.
(b) When colleges are separated, political interests are likely
to control the distribution of funds.
6. The relative advantages of centralization are now so
clearly recognized that many colleges in America are being removed to their respective state universities.
7. As there is the possibility of an argument being advanced
that the Lower Mainland is already equipped with the nucleus
of a University in the Royal Institution, and that this would act
to the disadvantage of the Provincial University if established
there, we bring to the notice of the Commission a resolution of
the Royal Institution. This resolution practically guarantees that
there will not be two rival institutions in the Lower Mainland.
Resolution passed by the Royal Institution for the Advancement of Learning of British Columbia at a meeting held May
14th, 1909:
"Resolved, that should Vancouver or the immediate vicinity
of Vancouver be chosen as the site of the Provincial University,
this Board is prepared to hand over the work now being carried
on in McGill University College by the Royal Institution to the
Board of the Provincial University."
8. Our arguments against any establishment of different colleges of the University in different sections of the Province are
practically summed up by Dr. Pritchett in the 3rd annual report
of the Carnegie Foundation, page 80:
"For example, the locations of the State University and of
the State College of Agriculture have in too many cases been
determined upon political or local considerations. In some cases
one section of the State has been given the State University, another the State College, and in some States, like Michigan and
Colorado, three State Colleges have been formed—the State University, the State School of Mines, and the College of Agriculture
and Mechanic Arts. These divisions have rarely been justified,
and in nearly all eases they have led to political wire-pulling in
the Legislature in which the State University in one part of the
State is played against the College of Agriculture or the Mining
School in another part of the State in the securing of appropriations. Not only is this true, but duplications of work follow
with endless rivalries. One of the most conspicuous of these cases
is to be seen in the State of Iowa, where the State University
and the State College of Agriculture and the Mechanic Arts
have each built up large engineering departments. The State of
Iowa is at the present time supporting two competing Schools of
Engineering. Not content with this, the State Normal School
has been allowed to start an undergraduate college and to confer
academic degrees. On the three institutions the State of Iowa
expended in the year 1907-8, $1,196,754."
The Opinion of Leading Educationalists.
Upon the question of the advisability of locating a Provincial
University in the vicinity of the chief centre of population in the
Province, we sought the advice of the Presidents and heads of
faculties of the leading Universities in the United States, Dr.
Pritchett, President of the Carnegie Foundation, and prominent
Canadian educationalists.
We have received replies from almost all those to whom letters
were sent, and with the exception of Dr. Pritchett and the Canadian University Presidents, all have favoured us with their opinions. The former naturally felt that he could not express any
opinion except at the invitation of the Minister of Education, who
had already asked him to serve on the Commission. It can readily
be seen that the latter might be considered as interested parties
and so do not wish to commit themselves in any way upon the
In the words of President Hall of Clark University, appearing
in the University Magazine of April, 1910, "it is difficult to get
an unbiased opinion concerning the relative merits of a rural
and an urban site for a university from the heads of colleges,
because they are committed by the situation of their own institutions and make special pleas defending their status quo."
Still we cannot but be struck with the fact that all those
who favoured the committee with their views, whether their
institutions are situated in large or small centres, are agreed in
recommending the vicinity of the largest centre of population
as the most advantageous site for a Provincial University, and
are also unanimous in advocating the concentration of all the
University departments, including the College of Agriculture,
upon one site.
We append a copy of the letter addressed to these educationalists and a literal copy of their replies.
Dear Sir,—
The Commission recently appointed by the Provincial Government of British Columbia to select a location for the Provincial
University will meet during the present month.
In presenting to this Commission the claims of the Lower
Mainland and its various locations we desire to obtain your opinions upon the following questions:
(1) Whether the Provincial University should be situated
immediately in the centre of population of the Province?
(2) Whether the Provincial University should be in the
vicinity of a large centre of population and how far distant from
the latter?
(3) Whether the colleges of Law, Medicine, Applied Science
and Agriculture should be on the same site as the colleges of
Arts and Pure Sciences?
(4) Whether you would make an exception in the case of
any one of these colleges as distinguished from the rest?
By favoring us with your views on these questions, and a
brief statement of your reasons therefor, you will do us a great
service in assisting the preparation of the claims of the Lower
Mainland and the selection of sites suitable for the Provincial
University. Have you any objection to our using your name publicly if we should desire to quote your opinions in support of our
position ?
We would be greatly obliged to hear from you at your earliest
Yours very sincerely,
General Secretary Lower Mainland University Committee.
My Dear Sir,—
In reply to your letter of May 13th, I would say that in my
judgment it would be best that the Provincial University, for
which a Commission is now seeking the best location, should be
situated as nearly as may be at the center of the population of
the Province.
It does not seem to me, however, that it should be built in
immediate connection with a large center of population. It would
be best, in my judgment, that it should be some ten or twelve
miles away from such a center, in order that it might have an
independent life of its own.
It seems to me very important that colleges of Law, Medicine,
Applied Sciences, and Agriculture, should be on the same site as
the colleges of Arts and Pure Sciences. Otherwise they are not
dominated by a common university atmosphere and spirit.
If any exception should be made, it would be the College of
Medicine, because of the necessity of having it in immediate connection with large hospitals, but I believe that with proper
methods of transportation even this separation would not be necessary, and it is certainly most undesirable.
Hoping that these briefly expressed opinions will be of service
to you,
Sincerely yours,
President Princeton University, Princeton, N. J.
45 Dear Sir,—
In reply to your letter of May 9th, I will state:
%   In the matter of location the balance of advantage is decidedly in 'favor of the large city.
3.    The American experience is a decisive one in favour of
the union of all parts of the university at one place.
Very truly yours,
President Indiana University. Bloom mgton.
Note.—Population, 6,800; remote from large centres of population. J. G. D.
Dear Sir,—
I do not feel like offering positive advice in the matter of
the location of the Provincial University since my feeling is that
there can be no fixed rules or principles governing such a matter,
but that the decision must be governed largely by circumstances
and conditions which are local.
Generally speaking, the location of a state institution should
be made with large reference to the future, particularly in a
country where so very great future developments are to be expected. The institution should be easily accessible from all parts
of the Province. It should be in or near the centre of population
where it may have the benefit of the advantages which are to be
found in such centres. This is particularly true of professional
I think also that there is an advantage on the side of combining all departments of the University at one place, although
it is true in some of our states that the departments of Arts and
Sciences have been separated without detriment to either. In
establishing a new institution I am in favor of bringing all departments to one place. It is scarcely practicable to bring all of
these departments on to one site unless you are willing to place
the entire institution in the suburbs of your city.
The Agricultural School must of necessity have large areas
of land accessible, but this need not be immediately adjacent to
the class rooms and laboratories, which latter should be in close
contact with other similar branches of the University.
One thing to be avoided, it seems to me, is the segregation
of any one department of school or class of students from all the
others. A decided benefit from the University organization is the
contact which students in the different departments will have with
the entire University body. This ought to be preserved.
Very truly yours,
W.  E.  STONE,
President Purdue University, Lafayette, Indiana.
Dear Sir,—
Your favor of the 9th inst. is received. In answer to your
questions I should say:
1. It seems to me desirable for the Provincial University to
be situated at or near the metropolis of the Province. That would
seem to me to answer also the second question.
3. It would seem to be advisable for the other colleges to
be in immediate connection with the University.
4. I can see no reason for any exception applying to any
of them. Of course, the agricultural college would need to have
its farm not very far away.
Of course I have no objection to your using my opinion if
you care to do so.
Very truly yours,
President of University of Chicago.
My Dear Sir,—
I have your letter of the seventh. I cannot judge as to the
location of your Provincial University as I am not well enough
acquainted with conditions in British Columbia; but I can answer
the three last questions in general terms.
Question 2. A large university should certainly be placed in
the neighborhood of a large city, if possible not more than ten
miles distant. This is necessary in order to keep your professors
alive; off in the country they are likely to hibernate, they go to
seed. They ought to be near enough to a city to get the flush of
its life.
Question 3. Most assuredly should the Colleges of Law, Medicine, Applied Science, and Agriculture be on the same site as the
colleges of Arts and Pure Sciences.
Question 4. I would make no exception. We have made in
the U. S. ample experimentation with the separate location of the
Agricultural College, and find it is a mistake. Our strongest
agricultural colleges have been those that are entirely amalgamated with the State University; for instance, those at Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, and Missouri. The experience of the
States which have established separate colleges is a warning.
Very sincerely yours,
President University of California.
My Dear Sir —
I have your letter of May 9, and answer your inquiries with
some hesitation since the answers might need modification if I
47 knew of the local conditions.   You are at liberty to quote what
I say.
1. It is wise to place a Provincial University not necessarily
in the geographical middle of a province, but at the center of
influence, especially if this is a point conveniently reached from
all parts of the territory served. Many of the state universities
in the United States were located as near as possible to a geographical centre, but in some cases this point has proved to be
difficult to reach.
2. The Provincial University should, in my opinion, be in
the vicinity of a large centre of population—near the metropolis,
unless this is already equipped with a university. It should be
far enough from the centre of the city to allow a large campus,
and the danger is that the amount of land needed will be greatly
under-estimated. Expansion should be allowed for with great
liberality, and provision should be made not only for many educational buildings, but for play-grounds, athletic grounds, and
space for dormitory systems. The university should not be so
distant, however, that it will be difficult of access by street cars,
nor so distant that it may not touch the life of the city and command its interest as a local enterprise.
3. The Colleges of Law, Applied Science, and Agriculture
should be on the same site as the Colleges of Arts and Pure
4. It will be an advantage if at least two years of the College of Medicine can be provided for at the same place. The
clinical work of the College of Medicine must be provided for
in the heart of the city where material may be obtained and in
close proximity to hospitals.
Yours very truly,
President Northwestern University, Evanston and Chicago.
Dear Professor Davidson,—
In answer to your questions I should have said that the Provincial University had better not be situated—except for its medical school—in a large city, but in its vicinity, and within easy
access therefrom. It would be also my opinion that—save for
the College of Medicine, which must be in the closest possible
connection with the hospital—the Colleges of Law, Applied
Science and Agriculture, had better be on the same site as the
Colleges of Art and Pure Science. I think in this way you
build up a university community with a larger and more influential life.
Yours very truly,
President Harvard Universitv.
My Dear Doctor Davidson,—
President Henry Churchill King is absent in Japan, giving
some lectures before educational institutions in that Empire, and
to me, as Chairman of the Executive Committee in his absence,
your letter has been referred for reply.
For colleges of Law and Medicine, the presence of provincial
courts and hospitals, with a considerable number of cases for
observation, seems indispensable. In both of these colleges, also,
the custom which prevails of using specialists for lectures on
specialities would seem to point to the importance of locating
the Provincial University in a large centre of population. For
the same reason, the School of Applied Science needs to be
located within easy access of large manufacturing establishments that the students may have at first hand the actual application of the principles they are studying. All these considerations seem to point, in my judgment, to the importance of locating
the Provincial University in the vicinity of a large centre of
population, near enough so that such specialists as I have indicated can easily reach the University and such trips as are called
for in the School of Applied Science may be readily made without
interfering with the daily work.
On the other hand, the College of Agriculture needs to be
located in an agricultural region where experimental farms, buildings for the dairy, etc., can be had without taking land of great
value for building purposes. Such a college should also be located, it seems to me, to show the possibilities of land which is
about the average land in the Province. If the college is located
upon one of the best places in the Province its results will not be
practicable for the small farms in regions of less desirable land.
If any exception is to be made as to the separation of any one
college from the others, I should say the College of Agriculture
presents the special case.
I am, Sir,
Sincerely yours,
Chairman Executive Committee,
Oberlin College,
Oberlin, Ohio.
Dear Sir,—
Permit me to say that I have several times recently visited
Vancouver and the neighboring region, and have been very much
interested in the university problem.
I would say that the best location for the Provincial University would be at some beautiful and desirable spot, sufficiently
populous to enable professors to live comfortably, but at a distance of ten to twenty miles from the centre of the city.   I have
49 been very greatly impressed with the wisdom of the location of
this institution, at a distance of thirty miles from San Francisco,
just far enough so that the student body will reside about the
university, and be disconnected during the term time from the
social and other distractions of the city itself.
Broadly speaking, I should say that the best possible place
for a university of the type of yours is at a distance of twenty to
thirty miles from the largest available centre of population. I
should say that it is decidedly better that the professional colleges should be at the same place, as near as may be. The Department of Agriculture will render it necessary to have suitable
farms. Possibly these cannot be obtained near Vancouver, but if
so, it would be well to locate the entire institution at a point
accessible to these farms. Law and Applied Sciences can be handled better than in the city. If you can have an adequate hospital
built on the university grounds, twenty or thirty miles from the
city, then medicine could be taught there to advantage. Otherwise the clinical work must of necessity be in the city. At Stanford we have arranged to give a year and a half; that is,
physiology, chemistry, bacteriology, phamacology and anatomy,
on the university grounds, and its remaining two and one-half
years of clinical work in the city.
Concentration strengthens all these departments. The nearer
together they are, and the more the spirit of the one permeates
the others, the better for all concerned; and it is certainly better,
in your beautiful country, to give ample elbow room and place
the university at some point not too near the city, but where a
local village might grow up. There are many attractive places
about Vancouver which have occurred to me as suitable, and I
shall look with great interest for the development of your institution.
I may say again that, with all the possibilities of forest and
gardens which you have at Vancouver, it would be a very great
mistake to crowd the university into the heart of the city, as for
instance has been done at Liverpool, where there is not even a
spear of green grass on the university grounds.
You are entirely at liberty to use my name in connection with
what I have said.
Very truly yours,
President Leland Stanford Junior University.
My Dear Sir-
In answer to your letter of May 9th I beg to say that while
I do not know the circumstances of course, which ought to be
finally decisive in the case of the location of a Provincial University for British Columbia, I have very decided ideas as" to the
desirable location for a great university.
First of all, other things being equal, I should think it would
be well to have the university as near the centre of population,
i. e., the ultimate centre of population, as possible.
2. I think there is no doubt that the best location for a university is near a large centre of population; the nearer the better.
3. I think it is a great advantage to an institution to have
all the colleges, Law, Medicine, Applied Science and Agriculture,
on the same site and in immediate connection with the Colleges
of Arts and Pure Sciences.
4. It might be necessary, in case a university is not located
as I have indicated above, to provide in the case of its medical
school for clinical facilities in some centre of population.
I have no objection to your using my name publicly if it is
understood distinctly that I am giving my opinion in regard to
what is desirable on general principles, and not an attempt to
form an opinion in any way as to the particular problem before
the people of British Columbia.
After all, any such question as this has to be settled upon
the basis of a concrete situation, which oftentimes makes it
impossible to carry out what on general principles is most
Faithfully yours,
Principal, University of Illinois.
Dear Sir,—■
In reply to your letter of May 7th on the subject of the location of the Provincial University of British Columbia, President
Schurman directs me to say that his knowledge of the conditions
of the Province are not such as to warrant any expression of
opinion on his part, except that in reply to your third question
he is decidedly of the opinion that the colleges for Law, Medicine,
Applied Sciences and Agriculture should be on the same site as
the colleges of Art and Pure Sciences. He believes that all these
colleges should be kept together and be constituent parts of the
Very truly yours,
R. C. EDLUND, President's Secretary,
Cornell University,
Ithaca, New York.
Dear Sir,—
I have your favor of the 9th, and in reply would say that I
believe the great universities should be in the center of a large
population for two reasons.     First, it gives the faculties and
51 students an opportunity of observing the life for which students
are being prepared, and secondly, it is desirable for such centers
to have the influence that comes from the free thought and discussion of all public questions by the university.
While it is desirable that a university for a Province or State
should be situated at a point accessible for everyone, it is more
important that the place selected should be right in the above
particulars than that it should be in the center of population.
I regard it as desirable that the colleges of Law, Medicine,
Applied Science and Agriculture should be located in connection
with the college of Arts and Pure Sciences. There is a distinct
university method of teaching in these colleges, now being adopted
by the best universities, which is in accord with some of the
methods of teaching in the colleges of Liberal Arts. I mean by
this the Case system of teaching Law, the Laboratory and Clinical
system of teaching in Medicine, and the Observation Method in
Applied Sciences and Agriculture. I have observed that the
influence of the colleges of Arts and Pure Sciences upon these
departments is of great value in maintaining university standards
and methods. I do not think the influence of technical schools
upon the college of Arts and Sciences objectionable. In these
days, when the aim of every university should be to make efficient
men, it is well for those in the Liberal Arts department to feel
that they are fitting themselves broadly for subsequent specialization in the professional schools.
Wishing you success in your great undertaking, I am,
Sincerely yours,
President of the George Washington University,
Washington, D. C.
President J. M. Tillman, LL. D.,
University of Arkansas,
Fayetteville, Ark.
"Yes" in reply to question (1),
"Yes" in reply to question   (3).
"No'' in reply to question (4).
My Dear Sir,—
You ought, by all means, to locate your Provincial University near a large central population.   It is impossible for a college
of Applied Science to do its work successfully in the country.
You ought to be near great factories.
Faithfully yours,
F. W. GUNSAULUS, President.
Armour Institute of Technology, Chicago.
Dear Sir,—
Your letter of the 10th, asking my opinion upon three points
with regard to the establishment of the new Provincial University of British Columbia, has been received. I fear that my
knowledge of conditions in British Columbia is entirely too insufficient for me to give an opinion that will be of practical value.
I have no hesitation in saying, however, that in general terms it
seems to me most advisable that a university should be located
at or near a large centre of population, and that this is particularly necessary in the case of a medical college, which must have
clinical material for work in the latter part of the course. In
this country the universities which have established medical
departments near small towns have been seriously handicapped
in this particular. They have found that the material that comes
into the hospital is chiefly made up of chronic cases. I believe
that they have had difficulty in holding their students in the latter
two years of the course largely on this account.
In regard to your third question I am thoroughly convinced
that the Medical college should be an integral part of a university, and it is most helpful when the medical department is located
on the same campus as the college of Arts and Pure Sciences, or
the faculty of philosophy. I believe that all the leaders of medical
education in this country recognise this fact and, wherever possible, are seeking to bring the two departments of the university
together in this way. The advantage is, perhaps, chiefly to the
medical department in that it is brought under academic
influences. We feel this need more in this country perhaps than
you do in Canada, because we are evolving out of the proprietary
system of medical school into the university system.
Very truly yours,
W. H. HOWELL, Dean,
Medical Department,
Johns Hopkins University,
Baltimore, Md.
My Dear Dr. Davidson,—
Answering your letter of May 10th, 1910, asking an
expression of opinion upon questions bearing upon the location
of the Provincial University of British Columbia and the relations
of the proposed Medical school, I beg to reply affirmatively to
all three questions propounded. The university will find the
greater advantage in being located in some large center of population; the Medical school cannot be properly conducted without
the clinical material which such a location alone can readily
offer, and it will reach its best development if closely associated
with the general university, because of the special opportunities
in general culture and the sciences cognate to medicine which
53 such relation will afford. Merely legal connection with actual
spacial separation is by no means ideal. I have been personally
connected with institutions following each of these plans and
unhesitatingly advise the establishment of the school of Medicine
in the same city and, if possible, on the same campus with the
rest of the university schools.
Very sincerely yours,
School of Medicine,
University of Pennsylvania,
Philadelphia, Pa.
First question.    Answer:    It depends upon as many varying
circumstances that I cannot answer in general terms.
Second question.    Answer:   Yes, most emphatically.
Third question.    Answer:    Not necessarily so, though there
might be  an economy of administration which would make  it
worth while.
Dean of Jefferson Medical College,
Philadelphia, Pa.
Dear Professor Davidson,—
In answer to your questions, I believe that a university—for
the sake of its departments of Medicine, Law and Dentistry—
should be in a large center of population. This is not merely for
these departments, but that there may be a close affiliation
among all of the scientific branches, both in the college of Arts
and in the departments. For the students, also, there is a great
advantage in association with the Liberal Arts and the influence
of the university is enhanced.
Hoping this short reply adequately covers the questions, I
Very sincerely yours,
Dean, Northwestern University Medical School,
Chicago, 111.
Dear Sir,—
Your letter of the 10th inst. in regard to questions of location
for a university and a college of Applied Science is at hand. I
am glad to give you all the information I have upon the subject.
1. There are many reasons for and against locating a university near the center of a large population. Some of the reasons
why it is desirable to do so:
(a) Faculty and students have the advantages of lectures,
libraries, theatres, etc., which they cannot have in a
small place.
(b) Faculty and students have the advantage of social life,
which is not possible in a small place.
(c) A larger number of people come to take an interest in
the university, and this is of great advantage to the
institution in the way of securing funds, students, etc.
Some of the advantages of being in a country locality are:
(a) That the members of the faculty are able to devote
themselves exclusively to their teaching and research
work, because there are no distractions in the form of
social matters, entertainments, etc.
(b) Students find more time for study than in the larger
(c) The moral influences surrounding them are better than
near a large city.
(d) While there are fewer people to take an interest in
the university than when the latter is near a large city,
yet they have a higher respect for and a more concentrated interest in the university work, because there
are fewer objects for them to take a deep interest in.
2. There is no doubt in my mind that a College of Applied
Science should be near a large center. The principal work of a
College of Applied Science is engineering. Quite a considerable
part of this work should consist in visits to manufacturing establishments where students should become familiar with modern
methods of work. Lectures on practical engineering subjects
should be given by engineers and manufacturers, and if the college
is near a large city such lecturers can readily be obtained. If the
college is, situated in a large city, manufacturers and engineers
residing there will take a great interest in it and wish to employ
its graduates, and the under-graduates are more likely to obtain
positions during vacations than they are if the college is situated
in a small place.
There should be about the university an atmosphere of culture
and refinement. This atmosphere may exist in a large city or in
the country—there is a great difference of opinion as to whether
it is best nurtured in one place or the other—but the atmosphere
about the College of Applied Science is one of energy and activity.
Its students are being trained to do things and they ought to be
near the city where things are being done.
55 3. The advantage of having the College of Applied Science
on the same site as the other departments of the university is
that this prevents unnecessary duplication of the work. Many
of the studies of the first part of the course of Applied Science
are the same as those of the first part of the course in Arts and
Science. One professor of mathematics, for instance, can just as
well have charge of the mathematical work of all students in the
university. If all parts of the institution were together this would
naturally be the case, but if the College of Applied Science were
separated from the other departments it would be necessary to
have two full professors of mathematics. The expense would be
greater and the work no better done. The same would be true
in many other departments, such as English, Modern Languages,
Physics, Chemistry, etc. There would also be an unnecessary
duplication of the buildings for work of this kind. Another
advantage of having all departments together is that the students
and teachers in the preparatory schools have their attention drawn
to one institution and one place, hence their interest is concentrated. There is a feeling that all students who are looking
toward a higher education will go to this university, entering the
department which appeals to them most.
The disadvantages of having a School of Applied Science connected with the department of Arts and Science are:
As a rule, the president of a university is not a scientific man, and does not sympathize very much with the
work in Applied Science; this may not be the case in
your university, but it is so in many institutions in
our country. Many of our university presidents and
some members of the faculties of Arts do not regard a
School of Applied Science as a real educational department of the university, but they look upon it as a sort
of trade school. This is due, of course, to a mistaken
idea on their part that a classical education is the only
real education and to their ignorance in regard to the
work done in a department of Applied Science. Under
these circumstances, of course, the department of
Applied Science does not prosper as it should.
In a university the department of Applied Science is
one of many departments, and the trustees and the
president can give it but little attention.
When the School of Applied Science is separate its
trustees and president have but one thought in regard
to the institution—that is to make it as strong as possible—in the line of technological work.
As I am connected with a School of Applied Science
which stands by itself I am undoubtedly prejudiced
in favor of a similar organization; if, however, the
university authorities are thoroughly in sympathy with
technological work I see no reason why a School of
Applied Science should not be on the same site with
the other departments of the university.
I fear that I have taken more space to answer your questions
than you intended me to, but you need not use any more of it than
you need.
Very truly yours,
President of the Case School of Applied Science,
Cleveland, Ohio.
Dear Sir,—
In my opinion it would be a distinct advantage to locate the
Provincial University near a large center of population.
Second. In my opinion it would be best to have the medical
department situated at the same center, and
Third. It would be a distinct advantage, in my opinion, to
have the medical college situated upon the same site as the college
of Arts and Pure Sciences.
Very truly yours,
Professor of Medicine,
University of Chicago and Rush Medical College,
Chicago, 111.
Dear Sir,—
To the questions embodied in your letter of the 10th instant,
I submit the following answers:
1. The Provincial University should be located near a large
centre of population.
2. The Medical College should be at such a centre and
within easy reach of the best hospitals.
3. It does not seem to me desirable that the Medical college
should be very near other departments of the university or so
far from them as to greatly impair the intimacy of the relationship.
Courteously yours,
WM.   E.   QUINE, Dean,
College of Physicians and Surgeons,
University of Illinois.
Possible Sites.
This Committee wishes it to be distinctly understood that we
advocate no particular site, and indeed there is no question of such
a choice being made at this time. However, the fact that
numerous magnificent sites are available in this district must certainly increase its suitability for the object under consideration.
We have rural, suburban and urban sites within twelve miles of
the cities of New Westminster and Vancouver. The members of
the Commission will be asked to visit the various municipalities
and examine the suggested sites. At such times the particular
merits of each locality will be explained by local committees.
Report of the Commission.
Victoria, B. C, June 28, 1910.
To His Honor the Lieut.-Governor in Council.
Sir:—The university site commission begs to submit the following report:
In accordance with the provisions of the University Site Commission Act, 1910, your commissioners have visited and made a
careful examination of several cities and rural districts suggested
as suitable university sites and have selected, as the location for the
university the vicinity of the city of Vancouver.
We   have   the   honor   to   be,   sir,   your   obedient   servants:
(Signed)    R. C. WELDON, Chairman.
WALTER C. MURRAY, Secretary.
Accompanying this report-in-chief embodying the finding of
the commissioners is an auxiliary report addressed to the Minister
of Education, Hon. Dr. Young, which reads as follows:
"The University Site Commission is strongly of the opinion
that the university should not be placed on a site which may in
time be completely surrounded by a city. They respectfully suggest that not less than 250 acres be set apart for the university
campus and 700 acres for experimental purposes in agriculture
and forestry. This is exclusive of a forest reserve for forestry
operations on a large scale.
"The commissioners are of the opinion that the most suitable
site is at Point Grey, unless the soils there and that of the Delta
land adjacent are found to be unsuitable for experimental work
of the college of agriculture. Should Point Grey prove impossible
the commissioners suggest:
First—A site along the shore west of North Vancouver, provided the tunnel and bridge are constructed.
Second—St. Mary's Hill overlooking the Pitt, Fraser and
Coquitlam rivers, provided residences are erected for the students.
Central Park, although conveniently situated, will probably
be surrounded by the cities of Vancouver and New Westminster,
and because of this and of the absence of existing scenic advantages, is undesirable.
59 "While the commissioners are fully convinced that it is of
the highest importance to have all the faculties of the university
doing work of university grade located together, they believe the
diverse conditions of agriculture in this province make it advisable
to divide the work of agricultural education between the college
of agriculture at the university and schools of agriculture of
secondary grade located in different centres. The college of agriculture should conduct researches, provide courses leading to a
degree, supervise the extension work and schools of agriculture.
These schools should be established in conjunction with the demonstration farms in typical centres and should provide short
courses, extending over the winter months, of two or three years
for the sons of farmers. Each school might specialize in one or
more branches, such as horticulture, dairying, etc.
"Similarly, technical evening schools might be opened in the
different coal mining centres, for the preparation of candidates
for mining certificates, and in the metal districts for the assistance
of prospectors and others."


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