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[Meeting minutes of the Senate of The University of British Columbia] 1968-09-04

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 Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
A special meeting of the Senate of The University of British
Columbia was held on Wednesday, September 4, 1968 at 8.00 p.m. in the
Board and Senate Room, Administration Building.
Present: Dr. F. Kenneth Hare, (Chairman), Dean W. M. Armstrong,
Mr. S. Black, Dr. M. Bloom, Mr. R. M. Bibbs, Mr. F. K. Bowers, Mr. D. M.
Brousson, Mr. W. T. Brown, Mr. F. J. Cairnie, Mr. C M. Campbell Jr.,
Dr. J. D. Chapman, Dr. R. M. Clark, Dr. D. H. Copp, Dean G. F. Curtis,
Dr. S. M. Friedman, Dean W. H. Gage, Dean J. A. F. Gardner, Dr. W. C
Gibson, The Hon. Howard C. Green, Mr. J. Guthrie, Dr. N. A. Hall,
Mr. W. L. Holland, Mr. J. S. Keate, Dr. D. T. Kenny, Rev. E. C. Lebel,
Dean S. Wah Leung, Mr. K. M. Lysyk, Dean Helen McCrae, Dean J. F.
McCreary, Dr. J. R. Mcintosh, Mr. I. S. McNairn, Mr. D. F. Manders,
Mr. John R. Meredith, Mr. D. F. Miller, Dr. F. A. Morrison, Mr. D.
Munton, Dr. J. M. Norris, Dr. H. P. Oberlander, Dean V. J. Okulitch,
Dr. G. J. Parfitt, Dr. A. J. Renney, Dean B. E. Riedel, Mr. J. V. Rogers,
Dr. A. D. Scott, Dr. R. F. Sharp, Dean M. Shaw, Dr. C. E. Smith,
Dr. J. H. G. Smith, Dr. M. W. Steinberg, Dr. R. W. Stewart, Mr. B.
Stuart-Stubbs, Dr. G. H. N. Towers, Mr. M. Waldman, Mrs. B. E. Wales,
Dr. Wm. A. Webber, Dr. J. H. Young, Dr. S. H. Zbarsky.
Observers:  Mr. J. Banham, Mr. A. Myers, Mr. G. R. Selman,
Mr. J. F. Stott.
Messages of regret for their inability to attend were received
from Chancellor J. M. Buchanan, Dean I. McTaggart-Cowan, Mr. D. A.
Freeman, Dr. C. A. McDowell, Mr. D. R. Williams.
The Chairman called the meeting to order, explaining that the
business of the meeting was discussion of the A.M.S. Council Brief
(submitted in June, 1968) and related matters. He informed Senate of
the developments and changes in the situation since the presentation of
the Brief.
He stressed that the problem of university government and
administration had become a world-wide issue which called into question Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
the entire structure of the western university. He felt that it was
more difficult to decide what action should be taken when your own
university was caught up in a world-wide issue rather than in a purely
local one.
The Chairman reported that whilst he had taken no concrete action
until he had sought the advice of Senate, he had listened to the views of
various members of faculty, both individually and in groups.
Faculty members ranged in opinion from those who felt that the
University should immediately put itself in the posture that the student
brief suggested, and do so enthusiastically, realizing that a new era was
dawning, to those who stated flatly that they would resign if we were to
accede to any suggestions in the brief or any other brief of this nature.
He felt that there were certain things in academic life that we
should not prejudice.  The basic concepts of the liberal western
university, based on academic freedom, freedom of enquiry, conscience,
and the personal integrity of the scholar, were sound and should be
maintained at all costs.
The Chairman reported that he had also taken much advice from
students and felt that the spectrum there was also very wide.  On the
Alma Mater Society Council itself there had been a very wide range of
opinion and differences about the soundness and justification behind
some of the demands made in the document. He stated that among the
students on this campus there were those who agreed with the radical
position and, at the same time, there were students in some of the Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
professional faculties who felt that the demands were nonsense and that
they were interfering with the progress of their education.  However, he
felt that most of the politically active students lay somewhere in the
range of the moderate activists who felt that the University could stand
a great deal of reform and he felt that the document should be taken very
He reported that he had had several discussions with the President
of the Alma Mater Society who had now recognized that most of the issues
raised in the brief were a great deal more complicated than it suggested.
The President of the Student Council had now circulated a memorandum to
the Presidents of Undergraduate Societies indicating that these
complexities were realized, and advocating study at faculty levels.
The Chairman pointed out that he had taken the position that he
would deal only with the Council of the A.M.S. and not with anyone who
was trying to weaken its autonomy, and urged Senate to take the same
view. He then outlined three topics on which he sought Senate's advice:
1.  He suggested that Senate should, in some form, meet the Student
Council and discuss these proposals across the table, constructively
and on the assumption that they are directed towards the bettering
of the University.  He considered this a matter of urgency.
He suggested a rather different mechanism for certain critical
issues on which there was little time available. Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
2.  The Chairman felt that the question of the revision of the
Universities Act (Page 6, Item 6 of the Alma Mater Society Council
Brief) called both for very discreet and more urgent treatment.
There was a Committee in Victoria under Mr. Neil Perry discussing
relations between the three provincial universities and with the
provincial government. However, he felt that the Perry Committee
would be pleased to have our comments. He considered that we should
provide some opinions for them not later than November, but that
these should not only represent the views of Senate but also those
of the Board of Governors.  In order to cover both categories he
suggested the establishment of a Presidential Advisory Committee to
prepare a brief that might be submitted to the Perry Committee on the
questions of university government. However, he did not feel that
we should make a public declaration to the effect that we wanted the
Act changed at this time.
The Chairman referred to the Commission to conduct a study of the
relations between universities and governments in Canada set up as
joint project of the A.U.C.C., Canadian Association of University
Teachers, the Canadian Union of Students, and the Union Generale
des Etudiants du Quebec.
He hoped that the Presidential Advisory Committee could prepare a
report to this Commission which would be consistent with the
submission to the Perry Committee. Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
3.  The present committee to recommend a candidate for the Deanship
of Arts was made up of members elected by the Faculty of Arts and
members appointed by the former Acting President, under the Chairmanship of Dr. Steinberg.  Its composition had been challenged by
the Alma Mater Society Council.  The students had requested immediate admission to this committee (Page 6, Item 7 of the Alma Mater
Society brief).
The Chairman reported that he had taken no action for the time
being as he had felt that the method by which such an appointment
might be made was governed by conventions arrived at by an understanding between the President, the governing body and the Senate.
He further reported that subsequent to the delivery of the brief,
the Alma Mater Society and the Arts Undergraduate Society had
amplified this request and now asked that the Committee be discharged
and a new one formed made up of equal numbers of members of the
Faculty of Arts and of members elected by the Arts Undergraduate
The three problems were then opened to discussion.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large
Dr. Clark said he would like to make two motions in connection with
this and to give some comments as to what lay beind this in so doing: Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large    (Continued)
Dr. Clark     ) That the Senate request the President
Mr. Waldman ) to appoint seven members oh Senate to
a Jo<nt Coherence with seven oh the
Alma Mater Society representatives on
the subjects raised in the Student.
Council's Brieh, and,
that the Senate ask the Joint Coherence
to present an initial report to Senate
behore the end oh december.
The Chairman thanked Dr. Clark for comments that he made and also
called Senate's attention to the report of the Advisory Committee on the
brief to the President. He explained that this Committee had been
appointed by himself but that he had taken the advice of the Senate's
ad hoc Nominating Committee in making up its membership. He explained
that the Committee had appointed Dean Gage as its Chairman and then
asked Dean Gage to speak.
Dean Gage explained that this report was more the work of a subcommittee than the whole committee and, even then, he doubted that it
would receive the unanimous approval of all the members of the subcommittee.  It was merely intended to indicate the point of view that
many had taken and the attitude towards the brief.  It also indicated
some of the arguments for and against to help the President in considering the problem. The report indicated that there should be more liaison
between students and faculty, but did not go into details. Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large  (Continued)
The Committee considered examinations not to be unanimously popular
but felt that there was a need for them to give some means of assessment.
It was hoped that students would continue to actively participate in
areas such as housing, library, etc.  In the area of faculty appointments
it was felt that consultation was more suitable than participation.
The question of confidentiality was also mentioned in the Report.
Exception was taken to the reference to confidentiality and it was
suggested that students were as aware as Senators of the need for silence
on certain matters.  It was further suggested that Senate needed to take
a positive point of view and invest supreme confidence in the students.
The motion was opposed on the basis that all members of Senate
might like to have the opportunity to discuss the brief with the Alma
Mater Society Council.  It was also considered unlikely that the students
would agree to a discussion with only seven members of a body as large as
After further discussion, Dr. Young moved an amendment to Dr. Clark's
motion - the motion to then read as follows:
Dr. Young )     That Senate appoint an ad hoc
Dr. Norris )      Committee to consult with the Alma
Mater Society Council and others and
bring horward recommendations to
Senate on the range oh matters discussed in the Alma Mater Society Council
Brieh, leaving open the date oh when
the recommendations would be brought
horward. Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large (Continued)
Dr. Young felt that the brief should be discussed as a single
matter and that it would be undesirable to separate the discussion of
the appropriate constitution of a Committee to select a Dean of Arts,
or any other Dean, from the rest of the brief. He felt this was a part
of the compaigning of students to participate in faculty and staff
appointments. However, he suggested that at an early meeting of Senate
some recommendations might be brought forward and these could be spaced
out throughout the winter, in preference to a joint-conference working
over many months before a report could be brought forward.
Concern was expressed at the amendment which did not allow full
participation of all members of Senate and all members of the Alma
Mater Society Council.  It was then suggested that either motion was
premature and that in the first instance consultation should take place
between the two bodies to decide the best method of handling the brief.
After a brief discussion, at the request of the Chair it was
unanimously agreed to suspend the motion to permit consideration of a
Mr. Oberlander )       That Senate invite the Student Council
Dr. Gibson )        as a whole to meet with Senate at the
earliest possible moment to discuss
the substance oh the brieh-
There was considerable support for the substantive motion and it
was considered that the students would appreciate taking part in the
discussions of the procedure that should be adopted and furthermore
that it would be beneficial to both sides to have an informal meeting Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large  (Continued)
with all members of the two bodies so that views could be exchanged.
The motion was then put and carried.
A suggestion that the numbers would be out of proportion in favour
of the Senate and that an open meeting was preferable, met strong
opposition.  It was felt that as the brief had been submitted by the
Alma Mater Society Council to the Senate, both bodies claiming to be
representative, it was proper that the two meet without involving anyone
It was then agreed that a written invitation should be sent to the
President of the Alma Mater Society Council in accordance with the motion.
Concern was expressed at the delay in getting a mechanism started
for dealing with the brief and it was suggested that in the meantime the
Chairman should ask the Alma Mater Society Council if they would like to
produce a Committee of their own to meet with a Committee from Senate.
Dr. Norris    ) That Senate appoint an ad hoc committee
Dr. Young     ) to conher with the Alma Mater Society
Council on the range oh matters contained
in the Council brieh and bring recommendations hotward to Senate.
The Chairman then summed up:
(a) It had been agreed that Senate should invite the Alma
Mater Society Council to meet with it.
(b) Preference had been expressed for Committee procedure
and it had been agreed that Senate should ask the Student Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
Senate to meet the Alma Mater Society in some suitable manner
on the Brief at large
(b)  (Continued)
Council if they would like to appoint a committee to meet with
a committee of Senate.
It was then decided that the Chairman of Senate should appoint the
members of the Senate Committee.
The Chairman felt that the question of the Committee to consider
the appointment of a new Dean of Arts was now taken care of and would
be considered with the brief as a whole, but he did feel that a
Presidential Advisory Committee should be formed to consider the issues
of University Government to report to the Perry Committee, and he asked
Senate to endorse this proposal. In reply to a question as to whether
students would be involved, the Chairman gave his assurance that they
would be consulted.
Dr. Scott  )
Dean Curtis )
(a) That Senate endorse the creation
oh a President's ad hoc committee to
help prepare a submission to the Perry
Committee, and,
(b) that such committee be representative
oh the composition oh Senate and be
capable oh considering adequately the
huture role oh Senate itselh in a
regime oh inter-university co-ordination. Wednesday, September 4, 1968.
The Chairman closed the meeting by informing Senate that he would
shortly be seeing Mr. Perry and that timetable was one of the things
they would discuss. He felt that if we did not get our views to the
Deputy Minister by November it would not be in our own interests.
The meeting ended at 9.50 p.m.


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