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[Meeting minutes of the Senate of The University of British Columbia] 1974-01-09

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 6009.
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
A special meeting of the Senate of The University of British Columbia
was held on Wednesday, January 9, 1974 at 8.00 p.m. in the Board and
Senate Room, Administration Building, to continue the discussion on the
report of the Senate Ad Hoc Committee on the Universities Act.
Present:    PresidentW. H. Gage (Chairman), Mrs. M. F. Angus,
Deputy PresidentW. M. Armstrong, Dr. L. L. Bongie, Dr. C. B. Bourne,
Dr. C. A. Brockley, Dr. T. H. Brown, Mr. G. B. Burns, Mr. R. M. Buzza,
Dr. S. D. Cavers, Dr. R. M. Clark, Dr. R. Daniells, Dr. J. D. Dennison,
Dr. N. Epstein, Ms. B. G. Errington, Mrs. F. Field, Mr. D. B. Fields,
Rev. R. W. Finn, Dean W. D. Finn, Dr. C. V. Finnegan, Dr. J. G. Foulks,
Dr. S. M. Friedman, The Hon. E. D. Fulton, Dean J. A. F. Gardner,
Dr. W. C. Gibson, Acting Dean C. C. Gourlay, Dr. D. F. Hardwick,
Mr. A. J. Hilliker, Dr. F. R. C. Johnstone, Dr. L. Kraintz, Dr. R. V.
Kubicek, Dean A. J. McClean, Dr. R. E. McConnell, Dr. C. A. McDowell,
Dr. M.  F. McGregor, Dr. D. J. MacDougall, Rev. J. P. Martin, Dr. J. M.
Norris, Mr. R. F. Osborne, Mr. P. W. Park, Miss E. B. Paul, Mr. S. J.
Robinson, Dr. I. S. Ross, Dr. A. D. Scott, Acting Dean J. E. Searcy,
Dean M. Shaw, Ms. S. H. M. Smaill, Mr. A. M. Smolensky, Mrs. H. W.
Sonthoff, Dr. J. K. Stager, Dr. J. R. Stein, Dr. K. S. Stockholder, Mr. B.
Stuart-Stubbs, Mr. G. A. Thorn, Dr. M. Uprichard, Dr. W. A. Webber,
Dr. R. L. White.
Observers:   Mr. J. A. Banham, Mr. T. A. Myers, Mr. G. R. Selman.
Messages of regret for their inability to attend were received from
Chancellor N. T. Nemetz, Dean J. H. M. Andrews, Dean D. V. Bates,
Mr. R. M. Bibbs, Dr. D. G. Brown, Dean I. McT. Cowan, Dr. R. F. Gray,
Mr. I. F. Greenwood, Mr. J. Guthrie, Mr. G. H. D. Hobbs, Dr. B. Howard,
Mr. P. A. Insley, Dr. J. M. Kennedy, Dr. W. D. Kitts, Mrs. W. T. Lane,
Mrs. J. MacD. Lecky, Dean S.W. Leung, Mr. A. J . Longmore, Dr. G. V.
Parkinson, Mr. J. M. Schoening, Mr. B. B. Trevino, Mr. F. C. Walden. 6010.
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
It was agreed thatthe meeting would adjourn at 10.30 p.m.
The Chairman extended congratulations on behalf of Senate to
The Honourable E. D. Fulton on his recent appointment as Justice of the
Supreme Court of British Columbia.
In reply to a query the Chairman stated that it was not the policy
of Senate to allow photographs to be taken at its meetings.
Recommendation  5
"That The University of British Columbia should take immediate steps
to attempt to establish in conjunction with the other universities of
the province some form of co-operative machinery. "
The Chairman reminded Senate that the following amendment to
Recommendation 5 had been moved at the November 28, 1973 special meeting:-
In amendment:
Dr. Clark      ) We recommend that The University of
Dr. Gray       ) British Columbia take immediate steps
to attempt to establish in conjunction with
the other universities of the province some
form of co-operative machinery known as
the Co-ordinating Council of Universities
in British Columbia or some other appropriate
name and we recommend to the Committee on
University Governance that the Universities
Act should specify that:
(1) All public universities shall have
equal representation on this Council.
(2) The Co-ordinating Council shall
include: Recommendation 5
In amendment   (continued)
6011
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
(3)
(4)
(a) the President of each university
(b) at least one member of the Board
of Governors of each university
selected from the Board of that
university
(c) at least two members of Senate
of each university elected from
the Senate of each university.
The Commission proposed in
this Report should consult the
Co-ordinating Council as well as
individual universities regarding:
(a) ail proposals for new faculties,
schools, departments, institutes
and graduate programs;
(b) all proposals for long range
planning of university education;
(c) all proposals to eliminate or reduce
duplication of programs; and
(d) adoption and modification of
standards for various categories
of space in the construction of
university buildings.
The Co-ordinating Council would have
no right of veto over any university
proposals, but would make
recommendations to individual
universities and to the Commission.
(5)      The Co-ordinating Council should
have the authority to inquire into
any matter that in its opinion would
be assisted by co-operative decisions
or actions by two or more universities
in this Province.
An opinion was expressed that before voting on Recommendation 5 and the
amendment to Recommendation 5, Senate should vote on Recommendation 3  (b) 6012.
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
Recommendation  5   (continued)
which concerned the appointment of members to serve on the proposed
commission.
Dr. Epstein ) That Recommendation 5 be tabled until
Mr. Smolensky    ) Recommendation 3 (b) is debated.
Lost
The amendment to Recommendation 5 was lost, 20:24.
Dean McClean     ) That The University of British Columbia
Mr. Thorn ) take immediate steps to attempt to establish
in conjunction with the other universities
of the province some form of co-operative
machinery.
It was pointed out that some form of co-operative machinery already
existed between the universities and it was therefore agreed that the wording
of Recommendation 5 be revised to read as follows: -
"That the University of British Columbia should take immediate
steps to develop in conjunction  with the other universities of
the province some further form of co-operative machinery. "
Recommendation 5 revised as above was put and carried.
Reference was made to a statement on page 8 of the report concerning
the colleges and the Institute of Technology.   It was agreed that the sentence:
"It expects its teachers to be better qualified than do the colleges ... "be
changed to read:    "It expects its teachers to be differently qualified than do
the colleges ... ". 6013.
Wednesday, January 9,  1974.
Recommendation  3   (b)
At the November 28, 1973 Senate meeting Recommendation 3 had been
referred back to the committee to consider amendments passed and those
which failed, in order to bring forward to Senate a revised recommendation.
Dean McClean stated that two more clauses,  (e) and (f), had been
added to Recommendation 3 and that the committee had considered the
following revised version of Recommendation 3 (b):-
"That all members of the Commission should be appointed by the
Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council, but that at least one-third of
the members of the Commission should be persons:
(1) who, at the date of their appointments to the Commission,
are full time members of faculty, full time students or
non-academic staff in the full time employment of a
university in the province of British Columbia; and
(2) who, before the date of their appointment to the
Commission, have been full time members of faculty,
full time students or non-academic staff in the full time
employment of a university or universities in the province
for a total period of at least two years. "
It was explained that since the committee had been unable to reach
agreement concerning the proposed revisions the original recommendation
of the committee remained unchanged.
Dean McClean     ) That all the members of the commission
Dr. Clark ) should be appointed by the Lieutenant-
Governor-in-Council, but that at least
one-third of the members of the Commission
should be individuals who, at the date of
their appointment to the Commission, are
members of faculty at a university in British
Columbia and who have had at least five
years experience as a member of faculty
at universities in the province. 6014.
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
Recommendation 3   (b)    (continued)
Note:   For the sake of clarity it should be understood that the
reference to faculty members in this recommendation should be read as
including the Presidents and Deans, although in Recommendation 3 (d)
it is recommended that Presidents should be expressly excluded from
membership of the Commission.
It was argued that the recommendation should include full time
students and non-academic staff as outlined in the revised version which
had been considered by the Committee.
In amendment:
Mr. Smolensky    ) That all members of the Commission should
Dr. Epstein ) be appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor-
in-Council, but that at least one-third of
the members of the Commission should be
persons:
(1) who, at the date of their appointments
to the Commission, are full time
members of faculty, full time
students or non-academic staff
in the full time employment of a
university in the province of British
Columbia; and
(2) who, before the date of their
appointment to the Commission,
have been full time members of
faculty, full time students or
non-academic staff in the full time
employment of a university or
universities in the province for
a total period of at least two years.
Following a brief discussion the amendment was lost. 6015.
Wednesday, January 9, 1974.
Recommendation 3   (b)    (continued)
It was pointed out that at the November 28, 1973 meeting the following
amendment to the motion had been approved: -
"That all the members of the Commission should be appointed
by the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council,  and where members
of the general public are elected to the Commission by the
Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council they shall be lay members
taken from as many social and economic sectors of society
as possible, but that at least one-third of the members of
the Commission should be Individuals  who,  at the date of
their appointment to the Commission,  are members of faculty
at a university in British Columbia and who have had at least
five years experience as a member of faculty at universities
in the province. "
Recommendation 3 (b) as amended above was put and carried, 30: 18.
Recommendation  3   (c)
Dean McClean  ) That before any appointment is made to the
Dr. Clark ) Commission the Lieutenant-Governor-in-
Council should:
(1) give public notice that an appointment
is to be made;
(2) ask in the public notice for suggestions
as to who might be appointed; and
(3) allow at least six weeks to elapse
between the date of the publication
of the notice and the last date for the
receipt of nominations for appointment.
Carried Recommendation  3   (d)
6016.
Wednesday, January 9,  1974.
Dean McClean     )
Dr. Clark )
That the following persons are not eligible
to be members of the Commission:
members of parliament;   members of the
executive council;   members of the
legislative assembly;   chairmen of the
Boards of Governors of the universities;
Presidents of universities;   and employees
in the service of the Department of Education.
It was pointed out that Recommendation 3 (d) suggested that Presidents
of universities would not be eligible to be members of the Commission whilst
Recommendation 3 (e) recommended that the President of each university
should be a non-voting member of the Commission.
Dean McClean   )
Dr. Clark )
That discussion of Recommendation 3 (d)
be deferred until Recommendation 3 (e)
has been discussed.
Recommendation 3   (e)
Carried
Dean McClean     )
Dr. Clark )
That the President of each university
should be a non-voting member of the
Commission.
In amendment:
Dr. Bongie   )
Dean Finn     )
That the President of each university
should be an ex-officio non-voting
member of the Commission and that
all faculty members who may be on
the Commission be non-voting.
Lost 6017.
Wednesday, January 9,  1974.
Recommendation  3   (e)    (continued)
In amendment:
Dr. Bourne  )
Mr. Fields    )
That in addition to the membership
indicated in Recommendation 3 (a)
and 3 (b), the President of each
university and the Deputy Minister
of Education or his nominee should be
ex-officio non-voting members of the
Commission.
Carried
Recommendation 3 (e) as amended was put and carried,
Recommendation  3   (d)
Dean McClean )
Dr. Clark )
In amendment:
Dr. McDowell   )
Mrs. Sonthoff   )
That subject to Recommendation 3 (e)
the following persons are not eligible
to be members of the Commission:
members of parliament;   members of the
executive council;   members of the
legislative assembly;   chairmen of the
Boards of Governors of the universities;
Presidents of universities;   and employees
in the service of the Department of Education.
That the motion be amended to exclude
members of the Boards of Governors of
the universities.
Lost
Recommendation 3 (d) was put and carried.
Recommendation  3   (f)
Dean McClean   )
Dr. Clark )
That each member of the Commission
should hold office for three years, and
should be eligible for reappointment, but
no member should hold office for more
than nine consecutive years. 6018.
Wednesday, January 9,  1974.
Recommendation  3   (f)    (continued)
In amendment:
Dr. Norris ) That the motion be amended to read:
Mr. Robinson    ) Each member of the Commission should
hold office for three years, and should
be eligible for reappointment, but no
member should hold office for more than
six consecutive years.
Carried
The motion as amended was put and carried.
Recommendation 6
Dean McClean     ) That the bicameral system of internal
Dr. Clark ) government be continued.
During the ensuing debate an opinion was expressed that the
subsequent recommendations concerning the Board and Senate should be
considered before voting on the continuation of the bicameral system.   It
was suggested that if the motion were changed to read "That a multicameral
system of internal government be adopted" this would not exclude the bicameral
system nor would it restrict Senate to the bicameral system.   It was then
argued that Senate had not discussed the possibility of a unicameral system.
Dean McClean    ) That Senate reject a unicameral system
Dr. McDowell    ) of internal government.
Carried
In amendment:
Dr. McDowell     ) That a multicameral system of internal
Dr. Scott ) government be adopted.
Carried
Recommendation 6, as amended, was put and carried. 6019.
Wednesday, January 9,  1974.
The meeting adjourned at 10.30 p.m.     It was agreed that the next
meeting to continue discussion of the report would be at the call of the
Chair.
Secretary
Confirmed,
Chairman

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