Open Collections

Delgamuukw Trial Transcripts

[Proceedings of the Supreme Court of British Columbia 1989-01-21] British Columbia. Supreme Court Jan 21, 1989

Item Metadata


JSON: delgamuukw-1.0019469.json
JSON-LD: delgamuukw-1.0019469-ld.json
RDF/XML (Pretty): delgamuukw-1.0019469-rdf.xml
RDF/JSON: delgamuukw-1.0019469-rdf.json
Turtle: delgamuukw-1.0019469-turtle.txt
N-Triples: delgamuukw-1.0019469-rdf-ntriples.txt
Original Record: delgamuukw-1.0019469-source.json
Full Text

Full Text

 11056  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 Vancouver, B.C.  2 January 21, 1989  3  4 (PROCEEDINGS RECONVENED AT 9:30 a.m.)  5  6 THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  In the Supreme Court of British  7 Columbia, Vancouver, this Saturday, January 21, 1989,  8 on Delgamuukw versus Her Majesty the Queen at bar, my  9 lord.  I caution the witness, you are still under  10 oath.  11 SYLVIA LOUISE ALBRIGHT:  Resumed  12  13 THE COURT:  Thank you.  Mr. Willms, my view has been for some  14 years that counsel's attendance at trial is really a  15 matter between him and his client.  And if your friend  16 agreed, I wouldn't see any reasons why he wouldn't  17 allow Miss Sigurdson to look after your client's  18 interest during the re-examination if you wish to be  19 excused.  And I've never taken it to be it's a matter  20 for the court to pass on whether counsel remains or  21 not.  There is a problem, and that is, I'm not sure  22 that counsel can both take part in the conduct of the  23 evidence of a witness without concurrence of his  24 learned friend.  For example, it seems to me that  25 unless your friend consented, I could only hear  26 objections from you with respect to this witness.  But  27 if your friend has no objection, I would not think it  28 a matter of concern if you were to excuse yourself  2 9 when the time came that was appropriate.  30 MR. WILLMS:  My lord, thank you very much for your observations.  31 I have made other arrangements to deal with that  32 difficulty that I mentioned yesterday.  33 THE COURT:  All right.  Yes.  34 MR. WILLMS:  Thank you.  35 THE COURT:  Thank you.  Mr. Rush.  36 MR. RUSH:  My lord, just a preliminary matter.  It seems that  37 Mr. Adams' court garb is locked away in our room, and  38 I'm wondering if your lordship will allow him to sit  39 at counsel table in the absence of his gowning.  40 THE COURT:  Just on the special occasion, yes.  41 MR. RUSH:  Thank you.  42  4 3 RE-EXAMINATION BY MR. RUSH CONT'D:  44 Q   I wonder if the opinion and the appendices may be  45 placed before the witness.  Thank you.  46 Ms. Albright, a number of times during the course  47 of your testimony, you have made reference to the 11057  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 importance of context in interpreting material remains  2 and the age of an artifact or features.  Is the term  3 "context" an archaeological term with particular  4 significance?  5 A   Yes, it is.  6 Q   Can you just explain?  7 A   The context refers to the location within a  8 geographical environmental setting of a site or a  9 number of sites.  So in interpreting the site, then,  10 its location is very significant.  Within a site,  11 materials found within a particular layer, whether  12 they be artifacts or features or remains of food  13 preparation, the features associated with that food  14 preparation or house structures in a particular layer,  15 as well as charcoal samples that might be from that  16 layer, are interpreted within the context of that  17 particular layer in the site.  So the context within  18 the stratigraphic sequence of materials is very  19 significant to their interpretation.  Also, the -- and  20 within that sequence of materials from earlier levels  21 to later levels or superior levels, is important for  22 evaluating the development of cultural activities at  23 that particular site and location.  24 In another situation, materials may be found in a  25 buried context indicative of pre- contact occupation.  26 At the same site there may be evidence of activities  27 of since contact, or what we have been calling  28 "historic".  And when both buried materials as well as  29 historic period materials are present, then there is a  30 clear indication of continued activities at the same  31 location when the archaeological deposit or materials  32 are indicative of activities at that location and the  33 historic materials are indicative of the same kinds of  34 activities at that location.  35 Q   Do you -- did you refer to the term "context" in your  36 report?  37 A   Yes, I did.  38 Q   Would you turn, please, to figure 9 in your report.  39 You were asked some questions about this figure.  Do  40 you have that in front of you, it's the GfTc-85-B  41 house depression site, it's just after page 3-6, and  42 you were asked some questions about the shape of the  43 depiction on figure 9.  44 I would also ask you to refer to Exhibit 849-A-3.  45 Now, is the depiction of the site that you found at  46 Gitanka'at at GfTc-83-B shown in 849-A-3, that is  47 the -- in the grey binder? 1105?  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 A   The house pit feature number eight, the largest  2 feature noted on the site map in figure 9 is the same  3 feature as has been drawn in the field notes at tab 3.  4 Q   All right.  And when was the field note in tab 3  5 drawn, please?  6 A   It was drawn at the time of our mapping and  7 investigation of this site on June 20th, 1985.  8 Q   Given that it was done by hand, does that fairly  9 represent what you saw?  10 A   Yes, it does.  11 Q   Thank you.  You can set that aside.  12 With reference to the surface scatter at the  13 Hagwilget site, you were asked about how you determine  14 the age of the tools which you found at the site, and  15 you said that you interpreted them in terms of where  16 they were found, the context, the tool types.  And my  17 question to you is does the number of the artifacts  18 which you found at the surface site at Hagwilget say  19 anything about the time of the deposit or anything  20 about the deposit at all?  21 A   Yes.  The -- there are a number of basalt tools which  22 are highly patinated or weathered.  Patination is a  23 weathered and crustation on the surface of the  24 artifact, as well as burnt tools, and they are  25 indicative of considerable age at the site.  26 Q   May I just ask you to pause here.  My -- you, I think,  27 are discussing the material of the tools?  28 A   Yes.  29 Q   And my question was directed to you at the number of  30 the tools?  31 A   Oh, the number of the tools?  32 Q   If the number of the scatter is significant?  33 A   Yes.  The number of tools and their -- the area of  34 their distribution is significant.  35 Q   And what is significant about the number?  36 A  Well, within the number of tools collected there are a  37 great -- there are a great variety of different tool  38 types within that collection, and that the variety of  39 tool types are reflective of -- reflect tools that  40 are -- can be compared with similar types of tools in  41 other stratigraphic contexts.  42 Q   Let me ask you about a question now that Mr. Willms  43 asked you concerning your preliminary investigation  44 report.  A reference was made to a structure which you  45 interpreted as being a smokehouse, and later you  46 interpret it in your report as a house structure, and  47 my question is, what is your understanding, if you 11059  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 have one, about how, in prehistoric times, a  2 smokehouse was used or occupied?  3 A  My understanding of smokehouses is that the -- they  4 are built at a ground level.  In other words, the  5 floor is level with the ground surface.  The  6 feature -- you are referring to the features at the  7 Gitanka'at site?  8 Q   No.  I'm referring to the feature at Moricetown.  9 A   Oh, at Moricetown.  10 Q   I'm really not asking you so much about the feature at  11 either site, but more about your reference to a  12 smokehouse and your understanding how the smokehouse  13 was utilized, when you used the term "smokehouse",  14 what you understood the smokehouse to be?  15 A   Oh, smokehouse to be.  My understanding of a  16 smokehouse used in earlier times was a -- was a large  17 structure that was used for both living activities as  18 well as processing of food resources.  19 Q   All right.  And when you say "processing of food  20 resources", what do you mean by that?  21 A   Particularly the drying of salmon from the river below  22 over slow burning -- slow burning fires.  23 Q   All right, thank you.  Can the witness be shown  24 Exhibit 849, please, that's the large black binder, I  25 believe.  26 THE REGISTRAR:  847 is the large black binder.  2 7    MR. RUSH:  28 Q   847.  And I wonder if that might be placed before the  29 witness, please.  30 Would you please turn to tab 6 -- I'm sorry, tab  31 39.  You were asked questions pertaining to stone  32 clubs by Mr. Willms, and you said that clubs that were  33 found at Hagwilget were compared with those found at  34 Prince Rupert Harbour, and you referred to the article  35 of MacDonald and Inglis, which is at tab 39 of this  36 exhibit.  And I just wanted to ask you if you made  37 reference to a passage at page 45 -- and I just ask  38 you to look at page 45 -- and if you can determine  39 from there, if there is a reference to what you were  40 referring to in terms of the stone clubs at Prince  41 Rupert Harbour?  42 A   Yes.  There is reference here to the increasing  43 abundance of pecked and ground stone tools and art  44 obj ects.  45 Q   In the last -- second to last line of that paragraph,  46 reference is made to clubs and handles, and I was  47 wondering if that had anything to do with your 11060  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 comment?  2 A   Yes.  They are both bone and stone clubs found in the  3 deposits for period two, 3500 though 1500 years ago.  4 They -- they are also noted on the figure 11,  5 preliminary listing of artifact types, stone clubs are  6 noted.  These have been discussed -- the stone and  7 antler clubs are also discussed in terms of the  8 skeletal material in the deposits as well, which  9 reflect -- many of the skulls show evidence of being  10 hit --  11 Q   All right.  12 A   -- with weapons.  The skeletal material indicates  13 hostility.  14 MacDonald also describes the -- these materials,  15 the stone and the bone antler clubs found in the  16 deposits in Prince Rupert Harbour area, in another  17 paper in which some of them are illustrated, his 1983  18 paper on northwest coast art traditions, or art  19 traditions of the northern coast, and there is a club  20 illustrated there from the period to two deposits  21 which were comparable in style --  22 Q   Can you keep your voice up please?  23 A   Comparable in style to the clubs found in the  24 Hagwilget cache that Wilson Duff described.  25 Q   All right, thank you.  Now, if you could just set that  26 book aside?  27 A   Okay.  28 Q   I think before you is the first grey binder which is  29 Exhibit 849.  If it isn't, perhaps that could be  30 placed before the witness.  That's the second, I  31 think.  32 If you'll look, please, to Exhibit 849-15, to the  33 third page, you were referred to the level sheet which  34 was found at tab 15, and as well, to the graph which  35 is attached to the level sheet which is numbered as  36 number 45, and you were asked questions about the  37 levels and the colour of the earth that is associated  38 with the levels there indicated.  And I wanted to  39 direct your attention to letter E.  Do you see that?  40 A   Yes.  41 Q   And I want to ask you if a level E or a layer E was  42 excavated by you in the Moricetown excavation?  43 A   The major layers at the site --  44 THE COURT:  I'm sorry, Mr. Rush, do you mean a level at this  45 location or at anywhere in Moricetown?  46 MR. RUSH:  No.  There was only the one excavation at Moricetown,  47 my lord, and this is one of the units at the 11061  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  THE COURT  MR. RUSH:  THE COURT  MR. RUSH:  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  A  Q  A  Q  Moricetown excavation site that you conducted?  :  This is in the trench?  Yes.  :  Yes, all right.  Yes.  Just directing your attention to the E  designation there?  The E noted on the floor plan refers to yellowish-grey  ashy silt deposit.  This is an ash feature that was  identified and given the letter E by Mr. Brolly in  this unit.  This ash deposit is found in the context  of what has been identified as C layer.  I see.  So the description of that feature was found,  as you say, the C layer of the deposit?  Yes.  This -- the ash feature is followed through  several levels of the -- during excavation.  All right.  Now, I —  The -- sorry.  Okay, thank you.  Now, can you tell me whether or not  similar letter designations for the colouration of  soils was used in respect of the graphing of other  units which you excavated at Moricetown?  The -- for most units in the deposit in the excavation  area, the major layers were identified as A, B, CI or  sometimes dark C or the dark reddish brown, and a C2  or sometimes C2 was referred to as C, the lighter  yellowish brown matrix.  Within those major layers  were sometimes coloured distinctions within the layers  that might be referred to as Bl, B2, or other ashy  features described as an ash feature, or in some cases  with a different -- different letter.  All right, thank you.  Now, you were asked questions again concerning  your material -- the material remains at the  Moricetown excavation concerning the finding of green  insulator glass.  And you were asked questions about  the mixing of the green insulator glass -- which I  think you said was historic?  Yes.  And with material which you interpreted as  prehistoric?  Yes.  In terms of the appearance of prehistoric remains at  the same level as the finding of historic items such  as the green insulator glass, is the number or type of  the artifacts either of a prehistoric or historic  character at the same level, important to your 11062  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 interpretation of the age of the artifacts?  2 A   Yes.  There were several fragments of one insulator  3 found and they were in the sod or directly below the  4 grass level, grass layer which --  5 Q   Yes?  6 A   -- which varied in thickness.  The prehistoric  7 materials in layer A are quite -- are very -- are  8 abundant and scattered throughout the layer.  There is  9 the -- there is a consistency in the prehistoric  10 materials, artifacts that are found within layer A in  11 all units at the site.  12 Q   And in terms of the -- is there a significance to the  13 abundance that you found in that layer A of the  14 prehistoric artifacts or material?  15 A   Yes.  The abundance of prehistoric artifacts in the  16 upper level is significant in that looking at the  17 artifactual material from various layers, we see an  18 increase in the number of artifacts and the variety of  19 artifact types and the -- their association with a  20 very dark carbon-stained matrix is indicative of a  21 very intense -- increasing intensity of use at the  22 site in terms of activities.  23 Q   Now again, dealing with the excavation at Moricetown,  24 I think you earlier gave evidence that a number of  25 items including obsidian were traded into the area of  26 Moricetown?  27 A   Yes.  28 Q   And his lordship asked you yesterday how it was  29 possible to tell from the presence of an object that  30 it was traded as opposed to having been left behind by  31 someone passing through.  Does the quantity or nature  32 of the obsidian materials found at Moricetown tell you  33 anything about how they came to be there or who made  34 them or who used them?  I'm here directing your  35 attention just to the obsidian remains that you found  36 at the Moricetown excavation?  37 A   The obsidian from the upper levels of the Moricetown  38 excavations has been traced to two sources, both Mount  39 Edziza and the Anaheim area.  The obsidian was used  40 for a variety of tool types.  There is a variety of  41 flaking detritus or debris at the site.  42 Q   May I just -- what is the significance of the flaking  43 detritus of the obsidian?  44 A   They indicate that tools were manufactured at that  45 location so that they are in -- we noted that there  46 was several small side-notched projectile points,  47 arrow points made of obsidian. 11063  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  Q   Yes?  A   In association with the points.  THE COURT:  I'm sorry, in association with?  THE WITNESS:  In association with those small little arrow  points.  THE COURT:  Points, yes.  A   So in the same context within the very vicinity of  the -- mixed with the little points, there are smaller  little flakes or chipping debris left from  manufacturing those arrow points, indicating that the  points were made right there.  And several of the  small points were found in one unit within a couple  of -- two centimetres, indicating that someone had  been sitting making these arrow points with obsidian  material at the site.  MR.  RUSH:  Q  A  A  And how does that bear, if it does, on your conclusion  that the obsidian was traded into the area?  The material from a distant source was brought to the  site as -- perhaps as a nodule or a core, a small core  of material -- but by people interacting or having  access -- interacting with people having access to the  source of the material.  Being a highly valued  material for stone tool manufacture, the -- and the  limited source of that material, suggests that control  or access to that material was likely limited, and  that the material would have been traded between  peoples not having the material and people having  access to the material, people living in the area  close to the source.  Okay.  Just ask you about another question pertaining  to hunters and gatherers.  You were asked about  hunting and gathering societies, and you indicated in  your answer that there were a variety of different  types of hunting and gathering economies, and my  question is, does the classification of a society as a  hunting and gathering society of whatever variety,  necessarily indicate anything about the pattern of  occupation or use of a site or an area?  Yes, yes.  The designation hunter-gatherer or  hunter -- hunting-fishing-gathering societies is a  term that refers to the focus of subsistance  activities.  In other words, how resources within the  environment that the people live in, how those  resources are -- those particular resources are used.  And the -- the variety of resources, animal resources  or fish resources are found within particular 11064  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 ecological niches or zones within a larger area.  So  2 the -- and are available at various times, more of the  3 year -- or more accessible at different times of the  4 year.  For example, the abundant salmon runs are  5 available at -- along the rivers in which they ascend  6 at the time of the particular runs that are ascending  7 the river, and are most accessible at -- sometimes  8 more accessible in particular locations.  9 Other resources that are available in different  10 ecological zones such as mountain goats or -- on  11 mountains, or caribou that are found in plateau areas  12 or upland areas and are accessible and available for  13 hunting within those zones.  And in making use of  14 those resources within the environment, people  15 scheduled their yearly round of seasonal activities to  16 procure resources according to when they were most  17 abundant and available.  18 So that with salmon being -- in the rivers being  19 the most abundant and reliable resource, and knowledge  20 of the runs of salmon, then it would have been given  21 first priority in scheduling activities during the  22 year where people are going to locate their --  23 themselves during fishing season.  24 When that resource is abundant, or at the point  25 where people are storing that resource for later use  26 and for purposes other than immediate consumption,  27 perhaps consumption later, for trade or feasting, then  28 resources are stored in fishing camps along the river  29 or perhaps in the vicinity of a winter village site.  30 Winter villages often appear at strategic locations  31 along the river of that -- at strategic locations for  32 access to that abundant resource.  33 Q   All right, thank you.  34 I wonder if the witness could be shown Exhibit  35 847 which is the large black document book.  Miss  36 Albright, at tab 18, your work on "Tahltan  37 Ethnoarchaeology" is set out, and it's set out in  38 extract.  39 THE COURT:  What is the picture on the front?  40 THE WITNESS:  That's a photograph of a fish camp at the  41 confluence of the Tahltan with the Stikine River.  And  42 the big bluff that you see in the upper portion of the  43 photograph is a lava -- is a lava bluff.  There are  44 two different flows of blocky -- rough vesicular lava.  45 THE COURT:  When was the picture taken, do you know?  46 THE WITNESS:  I took that picture — photograph in 1978.  I  47 believe this was my -- during my first summer in the 11065  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  THE  MR.  COURT  RUSH:  Q  area, either that or the second summer.  Thank you.  And you were asked about roasting pits by Mr. Willms,  and he asked you what your references were in respect  of the determination and identification of roasting  pits, and among other references, you referred to your  own work of "Tahltan Ethnoarchaeology".  And in the  various extracts which have been entered as exhibits  here, I have not been able to determine what portion  of your paper, if any, it was that you were making  reference to, and I wanted to give you a copy of your  paper and ask you if you can identify what passage it  was that you were referring to when you made that  comment to Mr. Willms?  A   Yes.  There is a section of my paper that refers to  methods of cooking and preparing of foods.  Q   Where is that, what page, please?  A   That's on page 76.  Q   Okay.  And is that what you were referring to?  You  identified it as a section which --  A   Yes.  Q   And that's -- you said 76 and the section seems to go  on to 78; is that right?  A   It's 76 to 78, yes.  Q   And is that what you were referring to?  A   Yes.  In terms of a variety of methods for cooking and  preparing food.  MR. RUSH:  All right.  My lord, there have been three extracts  of this paper introduced, two by my friend, one by  myself, and I'm going to propose that you take the  whole of the document.  I think it's better that the  whole thing rather than bits and pieces --  COURT:  All right.  RUSH:  Thank you, Miss Albright.  COURT:  Would it be convenient just to substitute this, the  whole document for tab 18?  RUSH:  Yes.  WILLMS:  Or there are tabs everywhere, my lord, a separate  exhibit might be --  RUSH:  Yes, I'm happy to have it marked as one of my  friend's tabs as well.  COURT:  All right.  WILLMS:  I'm sure you are.  COURT:  We'll give it a fresh number.  REGISTRAR:  Exhibit 858.  THE  MR.  THE  MR.  MR.  MR.  THE  MR.  THE  THE 11066  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 (EXHIBIT 858 - Report of Miss Albright, "Tahltan  2 Ethnoarchaeology")  3  4 MR. RUSH:  5 Q   Miss Albright, I'm turning to another subject.  During  6 the examination by Mr. Willms, you were asked if  7 features two, four and five, which are hearth features  8 that you found at the Moricetown excavation, and I  9 think you -- excuse me, you identified these were  10 identified by you as food roasting pits, to be more  11 precise, and you can just, if you like, refer to your  12 feature list which is at 2-5.  And you were asked if  13 features two, four and five, as I said, identified by  14 you as food roasting pits, could possibly be cache  15 pits, and you said no.  And my question is, did you  16 take that possibility into account in arriving at your  17 conclusion?  18 A   Oh, yes, I did.  However, in examining these buried  19 features, the -- the association of ash with the --  20 with the pit feature and the nature of the matrix, the  21 materials in the matrix and bits of bone in the matrix  22 and flecks of charcoal, all indicate a cooking or  23 roasting activity rather than storage.  24 Q   All right.  I want to ask you about another feature  25 which you were examined upon, and that is the -- an  26 ash deposit, and you were asked by Mr. Willms if it  27 was possible that ash deposits that were found in  28 layer A, again at Moricetown, were created after 1800  29 because of the finding of an insulator glass fragment  30 at layer A in 10 to 20 centimetres, and you said it  31 was not possible.  Now, my question to you is did you  32 take into account the presence of the glass -- the  33 green glass insulator fragment when you were dating  34 the feature of the ash deposit in that layer?  35 A   The -- there are no ash -- no, there were no ash  36 deposits or features identified in layer -- in layer  37 A.  There are -- the ash features are identified in B  38 deposits which is a distinct layer below layer A.  39 Q   Yes.  And I think the suggestion in the cross-  40 examination was that if a -- if the glass insulator  41 fragment was found at its lowest point of 20  42 centimetres, it would have been in layer B.  And my  43 question is, in dating the ash deposits -- or  44 identifying the ash deposits and dating the ash  45 deposits, did you take into account the presence of  46 that green glass insulator fragment found at that 10  47 to 20 centimetre depth? 11067  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 A   Yes, I considered its location or depth, but it is  2 clearly not associated with the ash deposits in B.  3 The materials, the variety of materials in layer --  4 prehistoric materials in layer A above layer B are  5 indicative of a period of occupation between the  6 deposition of the ash deposit, and the point at which  7 time a green glass insulator could have been left at  8 the site.  9 Q   All right.  Okay, thank you.  10 You were referred to the stone adze that you were  11 given by Mr. Parent --  12 A   Yes.  13 Q   -- in respect of your investigations at Hagwilget.  14 And you were then referred to a stone adze that was  15 part of a private collection in respect of your  16 research work in the Tahltan area, and you indicated  17 that such an adze had been provided to you, and I  18 wanted to ask you if you would just refer again to  19 your paper on "Tahltan Ethnoarchaeology" to assist us  20 if there was a figure or a photograph of this adze?  21 A   Yes, there was a photograph of it.  22 THE COURT:  Sixty-nine?  23 MR. WILLMS:  It's on page 69, my lord.  24 THE WITNESS:  Yes, page 69, figure 34.  2 5    MR. RUSH:  2 6 Q   Thank you.  27 Now, if you have the large document book -- I'm  28 sorry, 849-A, which is the second of the two grey  29 volumes.  You can just set that aside.  If you'll  30 look, please, to tab 3.  31 If you'll just look at the last page in that tab,  32 it's marked as D-12 in the lower right-hand corner.  33 This is a radiocarbon sample form?  34 A   Yes.  35 Q   And in your evidence you indicated that you sent a  36 radiocarbon sample to Beta Analytic?  37 A   Yes.  38 Q   In reference to this form, can you say whether or not  39 that particular form was sent to Beta Analytic with  40 the sample, or do you know?  41 A   I don't remember if this form was sent to them.  I  42 believe this -- what this is for, is this may have  43 been for my own information.  44 Q   All right.  That's fine, thank you.  45 I want to -- I just neglected to ask you a  46 question about the adze that you identified for us at  47 figure 34 in your "Tahltan Ethnoarchaeology".  I just 1106?  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1 wanted to ask you, if you will, to look in the  2 appendices at A-l.  And can you say anything about  3 what these two photographs show in terms of  4 differences or similarities between the two adze?  5 A   Yes.  They are similar.  The -- what I've referred to  6 as in figure 34 as a stone axe, we would also call it  7 a grooved splitting adze.  The -- they are similar in  8 form and function, they have very similar working ends  9 used for chopping trees or splitting planks, splitting  10 wood or heavy-duty adzing.  The -- the grooves are --  11 the grooving or notching on them is different,  12 indicating that they were probably hafted in a -- they  13 may have been hafted in a similar manner, or there may  14 have been some differences in terms of how they were  15 hafted to the handle.  There is some -- so funtionally  16 they are equivalent tools, but there is stylistic  17 variation to them.  18 The one in plate A of my -- of appendices to my  19 opinion report collected from -- by Mr. Louis Parent  20 at GhSv-85-A is much more highly polished and also  21 along the side it has a bevelled edge.  In figure 34  22 they are -- of "Tahltan Ethnoarchaeology", there is  23 more pitting of the tool and a slight indentation  24 along the side of the tool.  Again, the grooving and  25 pitting may be related to the hafting and use of the  26 tool.  Both -- both tools show evidence of use, wear  27 and hafting.  28 Q   Miss Albright, does the stylistic difference tell you  2 9 anything about who made them?  30 A   The -- there are stylistic differences in the same  31 tool for use in different areas.  These two tools have  32 come from different watersheds and so the stylistic  33 variation is likely reflective of the different  34 makers.  35 Q   Thank you.  Can you just set that aside, please.  36 Maybe keep your report handy.  37 THE COURT:  Is it your view that you could cut down a tree with  38 those instruments?  39 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  There — I remember reading an article —  40 and I can't recall the name of the article or the  41 author -- but there having been a paper written on a  42 study, an ethnoarchaeological study conducted with --  43 I believe it was in South America -- observations on  44 the use of a stone adze for chopping down a tree, and  45 observations in terms of how the stone tool was  46 hafted, materials that were used, how long it took to  47 chop down the tree and that. 11069  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  THE  THE  THE  THE  THE  THE  THE  MR.  COURT:  The difficulty I see with cutting down a tree with  this is that it's got a pointed end rather than a  blade?  WITNESS:  Well, it has a bevelled end to it, so it has quite  a sharp working edge at the business end.  COURT:  You wouldn't think that it was a weapon rather than  a tool for cutting down trees, or could it be both?  WITNESS:  Well, it may have been at times used as a weapon.  COURT:  All right.  WITNESS:  It would be effective.  COURT:  RUSH:  Q  A  A  As a weapon it certainly would.  Thank you.  Just in terms of the article you were referring his  lordship to, it wasn't quite clear to me.  Were you  saying that somebody actually took one of the adze and  chopped down a tree with it as an example of what it  could do?  Yes, yes.  A study -- I can't recall the name of the  author or the paper, but it was an interesting paper  to read.  I believe it was in South America in the  Amazon region, if I recall, where people have been --  have been using stone tools, have been isolated and,  you know, been using traditional technology up until  very recently.  Contact in parts of the Amazon has  been very recent.  Thank you.  Let me ask you a question concerning  Gitanka'at.  Mr. Willms asked you about the mining  activity at Lome Creek, and he asked whether or not  the cache pits which you identified at the Gitanka'at  location could have been identified with the mining  activity at Lome Creek, and you said that they did  not appear of recent use.  And my question is, when  you made your observations of these cache pits at  Gitanka'at, did you consider the possibility that they  were related to recent use?  Oh, certainly I would have considered, and I did make  notes of what more recent activities have been  taken -- had taken place there, and considered that as  a possibility.  But the features themselves are  distinct.  All right.  Just in respect of your other cache pit  investigations and findings at the other localities at  the Temlaxam locality, at Kisgegas, at Gitangasx, I  think I've mentioned them all -- no, and at Hagwilget,  did you, in those localities as well, consider whether  or not the cache pits may have been of recent use in  coming to your opinion? 11070  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Rush  Exam by the Court  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Yes, that was taken into consideration.  Would you please turn to Exhibit 849-A-15.  This you  identified as British Columbia Archaeological Site  Inventory form, and you indicated that these were  produced by the Heritage Conservation Branch?  The forms?  Yes?  Yes.  In terms of filling out of the form, you indicated  there was a guideline or guidebook of some sort; is  that so?  Yes.  And is this guidebook, does it accompany the form or  can you explain how one obtains this?  It is provided by the Heritage Conservation Branch  along with the forms themselves.  If information comes to you after the forms have been  filled out, what do you do with the information, if  anything?  After a form has been --  In respect of the form?  After a form had been submitted?  Filled out?  Oh.  Well, I use -- I fill -- often use the form as a  way of recording information.  So sometimes I --  sometimes these are preliminary until I've -- perhaps  wanted to add more information to them and -- before  sending them to the Heritage Conservation Branch.  So in the case of the forms that were filled out  for the sites in the study area, they weren't filled  out in terms of a final form or final condition for  sending to the Heritage Conservation Branch, because I  was not about to send them immediately, they were  either used as -- in a preliminary format.  Thank you very much.  Those are my questions.  Mr. Willms, have you got a problem to straighten out  or have we resolved that, about the level?  WILLMS:  No, my lord, I've reviewed it and I think that the  documents are all there and just leave it at that.  THE COURT:  All right.  Well, there is one thing I would just  like to have your assistance on, Miss Albright.  EXAMINATION BY THE COURT:  Q   Could you look at your report, plate 5.  A   Plate?  Q   Five.  Is the post feature the almost vertical  interruption of the dark brown area?  A  Q  A  Q  A  MR. RUSH:  THE COURT  MR. 11071  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Exam by the Court  1 A   Yes.  It's the vertical dark stain.  There are a few  2 pebbles.  3 Q   Yes.  With some stones and pebbles in it?  4 A   Yes.  Stones and pebbles in it and surrounding it.  5 Q   Yes?  6 A   So these would have -- likely are pebbles that have  7 been packed around the post as it was placed in the  8 ground or sometime afterwards.  9 Q   When do you suggest -- perhaps that isn't putting it  10 very well.  What do you suggest was the ground level  11 at the time that post was placed there?  I think we  12 are talking about 3500 years ago, are we not?  13 A   In this feature number 1, the -- the post can be  14 followed down from B -- B layer matrix, and is  15 associated with occupation during the deposition of B  16 matrix.  17 Q   Where do you say the ground level would have been when  18 the post was placed in the ground?  19 A   Somewhere at the upper portion of the post.  20 Q   And are you able to say where you think the upper  21 level of the post is?  You are talking about the top  22 of the post, are you?  23 A   No.  I'm -- the contact of the ground surface --  24 Q   Yes.  25 A   -- with the post.  26 Q   Yes?  27 A   Yes.  I see that at about the horizontal dark stain in  28 the B matrix.  29 Q   Perhaps show me --  30 A   The dark stain appears to be directly associated.  31 Q   -- using the original.  32 A   Okay.  33 Q   Where do you say the ground surface would have been  34 when the post was installed?  35 A  Well, below this dark stain, at this level.  36 Q   So you are --  37 A   Between the yellow brown --  38 Q   Yes?  39 A   -- and this dark stain.  40 Q   So you say that all material more or less above the  41 line where you've indicated above my pen now, has all  42 been deposited there since the post was installed?  43 A   Yes.  44 Q   And what would cause all that material, those rocks  45 and boulders to be placed there?  46 A  Well, continued activities at the site.  And in B  47 layer in units close to this post, there are the pit 11072  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Exam by the Court  1 features, the cooking-roasting pit features.  2 Q   But the cooking-roasting pit features --  3 A   In this B matrix there are a lot of cobbles and  4 gravels.  5 Q   Well, is it your theory that this material above the  6 line where you say the post met the surface, was all  7 brought there by human occupation?  8 A  Well, decay of organic materials, wind-blown sands,  9 the -- you know, the gravel, larger materials that the  10 gravel -- I'm not sure how the larger pieces are  11 there, but they are brought up from the river and  12 associated with the -- for association with the  13 activities that are taking place there.  14 Q   Is it your view that random pits around the  15 neighbourhood would be markedly different in profile  16 from what we see in this picture, that is unless they  17 had similar human occupation associated with them?  18 A   Other pits at this site?  19 Q   Yeah.  If you dug other test pits just randomly  20 scattered around the terrace or level, whatever it  21 was, would they be markedly different from what we see  22 there in that plate 5?  23 A   This is a post feature --  24 Q   Yes?  25 A   -- so it indicates a structure --  26 Q   Yes.  Let's assume that there was --  27 A   -- in layer B context.  28 Q   Let's say 30, 40, 50 feet away where there was no post  29 feature, would you think that the profile of a test  30 unit dug there without a post feature, would be  31 different from what we see in plate 5?  32 A   The matrix would be comparable.  There may be similar  33 posts in it, there may be similar pit features.  34 Q   But assuming we find where -- one where there isn't a  35 post feature, no suggestion or indication that there  36 has been human habitation, do you think the first --  37 what is this 30, 40 centimetres from the top of the  38 picture down to where you say the top of the post  39 would be -- or the intersection of the post with the  40 surface was?  41 A   50 to 60, I believe.  42 Q   Fifty to 60, yes?  43 A   Yes.  It's about midway in the deposits.  44 Q   Yes.  So do you say this first 50 to 60 feet of  45 elevation from the present surface would be different  46 if there hadn't been a post feature there?  47 MR. RUSH:  Centimetres. 11073  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Exam by the Court  1  THE COURT  2  Q  3  A  4  Q  5  A  6  7  8  9  Q  10  A  11  12  Q  13  A  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  Q  22  23  A  24  Q  25  A  26  Q  27  A  28  Q  29  30  A  31  Q  32  A  33  34  35  Q  36  37  38  A  39  40  41  Q  42  A  43  44  Q  45  46  47  A  Centimetres, I'm sorry?  The same -- the same matrix at layer A?  Yes?  Capping the upper level of the deposits, the matrix B  and the C darker and lighter matrix, those are --  those layers -- those general layers were found in  quite a distance down this backhoe trench.  Yes, I see.  So those same layers were found around the corner here  of this -- at this other trench.  Yes?  And it was looking at these stratified layers, the  deposits along this trench, and the trench continued  back to the base of the next terrace.  We chose this  particular place -- location along the backhoe trench  to do the excavations in that from what we can see  along the -- in those layers along the trench it  appeared that the -- at this point, the deposits  appeared thickest and --  All right, thank you.  Now, tell me where do you say  the post feature is in plate 5 -- plate 6?  Plate six?  It says, "Profile view of post feature"?  Feature of number 26.  Yes.  Where in the picture is the post feature?  The post feature is here.  The vertical darkened area to the right third of the  photograph?  Yes, yes.  Yes.  With the large boulders.  The post feature ends in the  basal gravels, so it was dug down into the gravels and  supported with these larger boulders.  All right.  Where do you say the surface of the ground  likely was when that post was installed, or can you  tell from that photograph?  Perhaps it can't be done?  Somewhere in the lower part of the C deposits as they  start to become -- as they start to contain more  gravel in them.  Near the top of the boulder layer?  Yes.  I would say about midway up this large boulder  to the left of it.  All right, thank you.  Now, tell me, have you seen any implements that  would be used to dig a post hole of these kinds?  In my reading of ethnographic references for different 11074  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Exam by the Court  1 areas, I believe there are references to wooden  2 shovels and wooden -- fire-hardened wooden sticks.  3 Often sticks are often used for digging roots.  4 Q   Yes.  5 A  And when they are fire hardened, they would have quite  6 a strong and pointed end to them.  7 Q   All right.  8 A  And could have been used for digging this hole.  9 Q   All right.  Lastly, can you tell me what, in your  10 belief, was the purpose of putting these posts into  11 the ground, what were they for?  12 A   The posts were supports for a -- support posts of a  13 house structure or a large house structure for living  14 and processing food, or perhaps at times a smokehouse  15 structure either for living and processing food or for  16 perhaps strictly processing dried salmon.  17 Q   They wouldn't build the structure just by building it  18 on the surface?  19 A  Well, I believe the structure was built at ground  20 level.  21 Q   Yes?  22 A   But in building a house your support posts need to be  23 stable, so the posts are -- it's like digging a fence  24 post, they need to be dug into the ground.  25 Q   So your belief is that these post holes were probably  26 used to put in, what in today's terminology we would  27 call piling, that is underground vertical support for  28 a structure?  29 A   The -- well, you could think of either large -- if  30 you've been to the area, sir, I believe you have,  31 think of some of the smokehouses that are there or  32 photographs of the old smokehouses, or the old -- the  33 older winter house structures that have substantial  34 size corner posts.  The -- I think some of these  35 larger post moulds that were found in the deposits may  36 have been corner -- large corner posts with the  37 wooden -- wooden planks as walls of these structures.  38 Q   And it's your belief that as long ago as 3500 years  39 ago, they were building planked structures of some  40 kind?  41 A   The earliest post feature that we have, feature 26, is  42 associated with -- is the feature from which we  43 retrieved the date of 5660 B.P..  So that there are  44 large structures at the site in very early times, or  45 early in terms of the archaeological work on the  46 Skeena Valley up till now.  This is the earliest date  47 for the valley.  In terms of the structure itself, I'm 11075  S.L. Albright (for Plaintiffs)  Exam by the Court  1 not sure of the -- what the structure itself looked  2 like, but the technology is present for -- for  3 splitting planks, so it's possible that they were  4 planked houses.  5 Q   Instead of what we call log houses?  6 A   Yes.  No.  They -- yes.  Like log cabins that we are  7 familiar with, there is no indication of that style of  8 construction in precontact times.  9 THE COURT:  Yes, all right.  Thank you.  Does counsel have any  10 questions arising out of what I've asked the witness?  11 MR. WILLMS:  No, my lord.  12 MR. RUSH:  No, My Lord.  13 THE COURT:  Thank you, Miss Albright, you are excused.  We will  14 adjourn until Monday morning.  15 THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  16  17 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 11:00 a.m.)  18  19 I hereby certify the foregoing to be  20 a true and accurate transcript of the  21 proceedings herein transcribed to the  22 best of my skill and ability.  23  24  25  26  27 Toni Kerekes,  28 O.R., R.P.R.  29 United Reporting Service Ltd.  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47


Citation Scheme:


Citations by CSL (citeproc-js)

Usage Statistics



Customize your widget with the following options, then copy and paste the code below into the HTML of your page to embed this item in your website.
                            <div id="ubcOpenCollectionsWidgetDisplay">
                            <script id="ubcOpenCollectionsWidget"
                            async >
IIIF logo Our image viewer uses the IIIF 2.0 standard. To load this item in other compatible viewers, use this url:


Related Items