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Delgamuukw Trial Transcripts

[Proceedings of the Supreme Court of British Columbia 1988-02-05] British Columbia. Supreme Court Feb 5, 1988

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 3164  1 February 5, 1988  2 Vancouver, B.C.  3  4 THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  In the Supreme Court of British  5 Columbia, this Friday, February 5, 1988.  Delgamuukw  6 versus Her Majesty the Queen at bar, my lord.  7 THE COURT:  Ms. Mandell?  8 MS. MANDELL:  Thank you.  My lord, I — I'd like to call today  9 Alfred Mitchell.  Victor Jim will be translating for  10 him and he'll have to be sworn in.  And if the two of  11 them could be then called forward.  12 THE COURT:  Thank you.  Swear the interpreter first, please.  13  14 VICTOR JIM, the translator:  Sworn  15  16 THE REGISTRAR:  State your full name and spell your surname,  17 please.  18 THE TRANSLATOR:  Victor William Jim, J-i-m.  19 THE COURT:  I think that should be translated to the witness,  20 please.  If you would be so kind as to translate the  21 form of oath to the witness, please, Mr. Jim.  22  23 ALFRED MITCHELL, a witness called on  24 behalf of the plaintiff, being duly  25 sworn, testifies as follows:  26  27 THE COURT:  Thank you, gentlemen.  Please sit down.  And the  28 witness' full name?  29 THE REGISTRAR:  Would you state your name for the record, sir?  30 THE WITNESS:  My name's Alfred Mitchell.  31 THE COURT:  Thank you.  32 THE REGISTRAR:  Spell the last name.  33 THE WITNESS:  M-i-t-c-h-e-double 1.  34 THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you.  35 THE COURT:  Do I understand you're going to attempt to examine  36 the witness in the English language?  37 MS. MANDELL:  Yes, we will.  Mr. Mitchell can indicate to the  38 interpreter himself when he feels he needs assistance.  3 9 THE COURT:  Thank you.  40 MS. MANDELL:  I'd also, my lord, like to pass up to you some  41 exhibits -- or some future exhibits, we hope, and also  42 to provide a copy to the Court where we'd hoped to  43 have them marked.  44 MS. MANDELL:  My lord, I might advise that Tabs 18 to 23 are  45 photocopies of photographs, the originals of which  46 will be in the Court's copy.  47 THE COURT:  Thank you.  These are all photographs, are they? 3165  1 MS. MANDELL:  They're photographs through Tab 2 onwards and Tab  2 1 will be an affidavit, which will be put to the  3 witness.  4 THE COURT:  Yes.  All right.  5 MS. MANDELL:  My lord, if I might at this time as well hand  6 up -- hand up to your lordship a sketch which will  7 also be put to the witness in the course of the  8 evidence.  9 THE COURT:  Thank you.  10 EXAMINATION IN CHIEF BY MS. MANDELL:  11 Q   Mr. Mitchell, you're 63 years of age?  12 A   Yes.  13 Q   And you were born at Hagwilget in 1925?  14 A   Yes.  1924 to be exact.  15 Q   1924.  And who was your mother?  16 A  Mary Muldoe.  17 THE COURT:  I'm sorry?  18 MS. MANDELL:  Mary Muldoe.  19 THE COURT:  Thank you.  Is that M-u-1 — sorry — M-u-1-d-o or  20 d-o-e?  21 MS. MANDELL:  e.  22 THE COURT:  Thank you.  23 MS. MANDELL:  24 Q   And what clan was your mother from?  25 A   Laksamshu.  26 Q   And is that the Gisk'aast clan?  27 A   Gisk'aast clan, yeah.  28 MS. MANDELL:  Could we have the spelling for that?  29 THE COURT:  It's G-i-s-k-a-a-s-t, is it not?  30 THE REGISTRAR:  540.  31 MS. MANDELL:  32 Q   And your -- did your mother have a chief's name?  33 A   She's got a chief's name, but I don't know.  34 Q   Okay.  And who was your father?  35 A   Tommy Michell.  36 Q   And what clan was Tommy Michell from?  37 A   Tsayu.  38 Q   And did he have a chief's name?  39 A   Yes.  4 0       Q   And what was that?  41 A  Misaloos.  42 Q   Are your parents both now passed on?  43 A   Yes.  44 Q   Did your parents together have children other than  45 yourself?  46 A   I've got one brother and two sisters.  47 Q   And have your sisters now both deceased? 3166  1 A   Deceased.  2 Q   And were their names Gloria and Mary?  3 A   Gloria and Mary, yes.  4 Q   And your brother's name is Billy?  5 A   Billy, yes.  6 Q   And he is still with us?  7 A   Yes.  8 Q   And your clan is the same as your mother's clan; is  9 that right?  10 A   Yes.  My mother's clan.  11 Q   And you're from the house of Wii seeks?  12 A   Yes.  13 MS. MANDELL:  Do you need a spelling for that, my lord?  14 THE COURT:  Yes.  I can find it, but — it's not on my list.  15 MS. MANDELL:  79 on the plaintiff's list.  16 THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you.  While we're looking for the  17 spelling, I didn't get the spelling of his father's  18 chiefly name.  19 MS. MANDELL:  Misaloos.  20 THE SPELLER:  519.  21 MS. MANDELL:  519.  22 THE COURT:  Thank you.  23 MS. MANDELL:  24 Q   And does Pete Muldoe speak for you in this court case?  25 A   Yes.  2 6       Q   And do you have a chief's name?  27       A   Yes.  2 8       Q   And what is that?  2 9       A   Txemsin.  30 THE SPELLER:  487.  31 THE COURT:  Thank you.  32 MS. MANDELL:  33 Q   And is that a Gitksan chief's name?  34 A   Gitksan chief's name, yes.  35 Q   And when did you receive that name?  36 A   I receive that name when my Uncle Pete Muldoe put up a  37 totem pole in Kispiox, 1973.  38 Q   And was your uncle Pete Muldoe?  39 A   Yes.  40 Q   And on the occasion when you received that name, did  41 your brother also receive a chief's name?  42 A   Yes.  43 Q   Do you have a seat in the Wet'suwet'en feast hall?  44 A   Yes.  45 Q   And where do you sit?  46 A   Right in the front row and Tsayu -- where Tsayu sit,  47 right in the front row, first chair -- first chair on 3167  1 left-hand side.  2 THE COURT:  Miss Mandell, I'm sorry.  Perhaps I wasn't hearing  3 right, but I thought that the witness said that his  4 name, 487, was a Gitksan name.  5 MS. MANDELL:  That's correct.  He got a name from his Gitksan  6 house, my lord, and he -- he will be giving a little  7 more information about that, but --  8 THE COURT:  All right.  9 MS. MANDELL:  — you're correct.  10 THE COURT:  I didn't hear it wrong.  Thank you.  11 MS. MANDELL:  12 Q   And do you have a seat in the Gitksan feast hall?  13 A   No.  No.  14 Q   Can you recall approximately when -- at what time and  15 what year you were seated in the Wet'suwet'en feast  16 hall?  17 A   In the forties.  I'm not sure which year.  18 Q   As a member of the Laksamshu clan and the House of Wii  19 seeks, do you have obligations to the House of Wii  20 seeks at the feast hall?  21 A   Yes.  22 Q   And do you fulfil those obligations?  23 A   Not all the time.  Sometimes, yes.  24 Q   What -- what do you do, or what have you done in the  25 past with respect to your obligations in the Gitksan  26 feast hall?  27 A   I always put up some money, sometimes buy apple box  28 for a feast, orange, something like that, when my  29 Uncle Pete puts up the feast.  30 Q   And if you're asked to attend a Gitksan feast by your  31 uncle, are you obligated to attend?  32 A   Yes.  33 Q   Does -- does your Gitksan house or clan attend at the  34 Wet'suwet'en feasts of your father's clan?  35 A   Yes, they do.  36 Q   Do members of your clan, your Gitksan clan, assist you  37 in your feast obligations among the Wet'suwet'en?  38 A   I remember my Aunt Elsie always come too.  Whenever my  39 Aunt -- other Aunt Emma puts up a feast in Moricetown,  4 0 they always come.  41 Q   Is that Elsie Morrison?  42 A   Elsie Morrison, my aunt.  4 3 Q   Is that Emma Emma Mitchell?  44 A   That's my other aunt.  45 Q   And did Elsie Morrison make a blanket for your son  46 when he received a chief's name?  47 A   Yes. 3168  1 Q   And Elsie Morrison is Gitksan?  2 A   Gitksan.  3 MS. MANDELL:  Under — is there a responsibility with the —  4 with your clan to assist in the making of the blanket  5 when a name is passed on through the father's clan?  6 THE TRANSLATOR:  Repeat that, please.  7 MS. MANDELL:  8 Q   Is there a responsibility with your clan to assist in  9 the making of a blanket when a name is passed on  10 through the father's clan?  11 A   Yes.  12 Q   Now, were you raised in Kispiox until you were about  13 eight years old?  14 A   Yes.  15 Q   And at that time did your mother pass away?  16 A   Yeah.  1932.  17 Q   And did you then go with your father to Hagwilget?  18 A   Yes.  19 Q   And who did you stay with when you were then living in  20 Hagwilget with your father?  21 A  My father took me from Kispiox, took me to Hagwilget  22 to -- stayed with Joe Wilson and his wife at  23 Hagwilget.  24 Q   And was Joe Wilson Wet'suwet'en or Gitksan?  25 A  Wet'suwet'en.  2 6 Q   And do you know what his clan was?  2 7 A   Gitdumden.  28 Q   And his wife, Maggie Wilson, was she Gitksan or  29 Wet'suwet'en?  30 A   Gitksan.  31 Q   And do you know what her clan was?  32 A   Laksamshu, Gisk'aast.  33 Q   As a young child staying now with Joe and Maggie  34 Wilson and your father, did you then go to residential  35 school?  36 A   Yes.  37 Q   And which school did you attend?  38 A   Lejac Residential School, Fraser Lake.  39 THE COURT:  I'm sorry.  I didn't get the — sorry, the date of  40 his mother's death.  41 MS. MANDELL:  That was in 1932.  42 THE COURT:  Thank you.  43 MS. MANDELL:  44 Q   And you say that you attended Lejac Residential School  45 at Fraser lake?  46 A   Yes.  47 Q   Do you recall how many years you went to that school? 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  MS.  2 9 THE  3 0 MS.  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  MANDELL  SPELLER  MANDELL  Q   Does  3169  1932 I went there, 1933.  That's two years.  Okay.  Did you attend any other school after Lejac  Residential School?  After that I went back to Hagwilget.  There again, I  stayed with Joe Wilson and his wife and I attended day  school there.  And how many --  I believe two years.  I'm not sure.  Okay.  And after you -- you attended school at  Hagwilget, did your family then move to Moricetown?  At that time, around 1935, my father, Misaloos, he  remarried Mary Tom that time.  That's the time we move  back to Moricetown.  Okay.  And Mary Tom, do you know what her clan was?  Gitdumden.  When you then moved to Moricetown, who did you stay  with?  With my aunt, and my father working someplace else.  I  stay with my Aunt Emma.  And that's Emma Michell?  Emma Michell and Little Tommy Michell.  Okay.  And what clan is Emma Michell?  Tsayu.  And does she have a chief's name?  Yes.  And is that Lii luus?  Lii luus.  Lii luus.  We need a spelling for that.  Lii luus, L-i-i-1-u-u-s.  is Emma related to you by blood?  A   That's my father's sister, younger sister.  Q   And did Emma -- would you consider that Emma raised  you while you were living in Moricetown?  A   Yes.  Q   And did you also sometimes stay with Maggie Wilson?  A  We go visit them every once in awhile because Maggie  is real close with my mother Mary, late mother.  Q   So when you went to Hagwilget, you would still stay  with Maggie?  A   Yes.  Q   While you were in Moricetown, did you go to school?  A   I went to day school in Moricetown.  Q   And can you recall for how many years you went to day  school?  A   For four or five years.  Q   Okay.  Do you know what grade you completed in school? 1  A  2  Q  3  4  5  A  6  Q  7  3170  Eight.  Grade eight.  Under Wet'suwet'en law is there a  responsibility with the father's clan to assist in the  raising of the children?  Yes.  Now, you married Elizabeth Naziel in 1950; is that  correct?  8 A   Yes.  9 THE COURT:  I'm sorry.  The year?  10 MS. MANDELL:  1950.  11 THE COURT:  Elizabeth?  12 MS. MANDELL:  N-a-z-i-e-1.  13 THE COURT:  Thank you.  14 MS. MANDELL:  And what clan was Elizabeth from?  Laksilyu.  And together you had eight children?  Yes.  And Elizabeth, did she pass away in 1971?  '71, yes.  And did you later remarry her sister, Charlotte  Naziel?  Yes.  And Charlotte is of the same clan as Elizabeth; is  that correct?  Yes.  And between yourself and Charlotte Mitchell, you have  two children; is that correct?  Yes.  What is the age of your youngest child now?  Fourteen.  And do you recall the age of your oldest child?  Fifty.  Fifty?  Yes.  Big span.  Is it common among the Wet'suwet'en for the  Wet'suwet'en men to marry their wife's sister when the  wife has passed away?  That's common.  And do you have grandchildren?  Yes.  How many?  I couldn't find my fingers.  Sixteen.  What is your first language?  What's the first  language that you were taught to speak?  Gitksan.  And what is your second language?  15  Q  16  A  17  Q  18  A  19  Q  20  A  21  Q  22  23  A  24  Q  25  26  A  27  Q  28  29  A  30  Q  31  A  32  Q  33  A  34  Q  35  A  36  Q  37  38  39  A  40  Q  41  A  42  Q  43  A  44  Q  45  46  A  47  Q 1  A  2  Q  3  A  4  Q  5  6  A  7  8 THE (  COU]  9 MS. ]  VAN]  10  Q  11  A  12  Q  13  A  14  Q  15  A  16  Q  17  18  19  20  A  21  Q  22  23  A  24  Q  25  26  A  27  Q  28  A  29  Q  30  31  32  A  33  34  Q  35  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  Q  40  41  A  42  Q  43  A  44  Q  45  46  A  47  Q  3171  Wet'suwet'en and English.  What language do you speak at home with your wife?  Wet'suwet'en.  Do you have problems in completely understanding or  speaking English?  In English in our words I couldn't understand.  Like  lawyers, like you guys, I can't understand you.  :  I can't either, Mr. Mitchell.  LL:  Do you have any hearing problems?  Yes.  What is your hearing problem?  My right side of my ears.  Are you completely deaf in your right side?  I can hear little bit, not -- not that good.  I'm going to go on to another area and ask you about  your training as a hunter and trapper, and I want to  first ask you whether or not you are a skilled hunter  and trapper?  Yes.  Is every Wet'suwet'en man trained to be a hunter and  trapper or are only some people so trained?  Just some people.  Are Wet'suwet'en women also sometimes trained to be  hunters and trappers?  Some of them are good trappers.  But not hunters?  Oh, yes.  They shoot moose, bear, smart ones.  Smart bears or smart women?  How would you say that  the Wet'suwet'en identify the children who will be  trained to be hunters or trappers?  My grandfather and my father both told me as a young  child that you would become a good hunter.  As a young boy were you interested in learning how to  hunt and trap?  Yes.  Can you identify when your training as a hunter began?  When he first bought me my .22.  And how old were you when you were first given your  .22?  Ten years old.  And who bought you your first gun?  My father, Misaloos.  And when would you identify that your training as a  trapper began?  That same year.  And were you given any tools or equipment that year to 3172  1 trap?  2 A   The same year he bought me that .22, he bought me a  3 little trap, number ought they call it, trap squirrel  4 with or weasel.  5 Q   Is it common practice among the Wet'suwet'en for the  6 father to teach the children to hunt or trap?  7 A   Common.  8 Q   And was your father a skilled hunter and trapper?  9 A   He was a skilled hunter and trapper.  10 Q   If a father doesn't know himself how to hunt and trap,  11 is it common practice among the Wet'suwet'en for that  12 father to arrange for his children to be trained by  13 somebody else?  14 A  My father was both a skilled hunter and trapper and  15 for those young men that don't know how to hunt or  16 trap, they would accompany other people from other  17 clans who go hunting for goat, moose or whatever, and  18 even though I was a good hunter and trapper, I still  19 went with Sylvester William, who was the best hunter  20 and trapper.  21 Q   And what was Sylvester's chief's name?  22 A   Hagwilnegh.  23 Q   And what clan is he from?  24 A   Laksilyu.  25 Q   You've mentioned Sylvester as being another of your  26 teachers.  Besides your father and Sylvester, were  27 there others who taught you how to hunt and trap?  28 A  My grandfather, Albert Namox, and other grandfather,  2 9 my father's dad, Jimmy Michell.  30 Q   Do you know the clan of Alfred Namox?  31 A   Tsayu.  32 Q   And Jimmy Michell's clan?  33 A   Laksilyu.  34 Q   Did your father, to your knowledge, teach any --  35 either -- any of your family, your brothers or anybody  36 else, to hunt and trap?  37 A  Me and my brother would both go with my father on the  38 trapline all the time.  39 Q   And that's your brother Billy?  40 A  My brother Billy, yeah.  41 MS. MANDELL:  Now —  42 THE COURT:  Miss Mandell, I think it's going to be convenient  43 for me, at least, if I have a -- just pause for a  44 moment to see if I can get some of this straightened  45 out.  Is this witness a plaintiff?  4 6 MS. MANDELL:  No.  47 THE COURT:  Is he the chief of a house that is represented as -- 3173  1 MS. MANDELL:  No.  Well, the house that he is a member of is.  2 THE COURT:  Represented by Pete Muldoe?  3 MS. MANDELL:  The House of Wii seeks, that's correct.  4 THE COURT:  So this -- this witness is a member of the House of  5 Wii seeks, which is in the Laksamshu clan.  6 MS. MANDELL:  Laksamshu.  7 THE COURT:  Laksamshu clan, I'm sorry, of the Wet'suwet'en.  8 MS. MANDELL:  Of the Gitksan.  The Gitksan parallel to the  9 Laksamshu clan is called Gisk'aast, the fireweed clan.  10 THE COURT:  Just a moment then.  So he's not a plaintiff.  And  11 his house is Wii seeks, clan is Laksamshu, which is  12 a -- which is a --  13 MS. MANDELL:  The Gitksan side of the — in the Gitksan side of  14 it it's the fireweed clan.  It's the Gisk'aast clan.  15 THE COURT:  Well, the clan Laksamshu is —  16 MS. MANDELL:  Is fireweed.  And the Gitksan will pronounce it  17 Gisk'aast and the Wet'suwet'en will pronounce it  18 Laksamshu.  19 THE COURT:  So Laksamshu, which is the — the Wet'suwet'en  20 equivalent -- I know that word's not too --  21 MS. MANDELL:  It's fine.  22 THE COURT:  Of the Gitksan, Gisk'aast.  All right.  And the  23 House of Wii seeks is represented in this action by  24 Pete Muldoe?  25 MS. MANDELL:  Right.  And to that extent, although the witness  26 isn't a named plaintiff, he is represented as part of  27 the plaintiffs.  28 THE COURT:  He's represented.  29 MS. MANDELL:  That's right.  30 THE COURT:  Yes.  All right.  Thank you.  31 MS. MANDELL:  And, my lord, just for further clarification, the  32 evidence that you'll be hearing is primarily to do  33 with his life among the Wet'suwet'en people, among his  34 father's clan, the Tsayu.  He was raised in Moricetown  35 from an early age and the evidence will be his life  36 and participation were primarily among his father's  37 clan.  38 THE COURT:  Which is more exciting, which is a Wet'suwet'en  39 clan.  40 MS. MANDELL:  Which is Tsayu, which is Wet'suwet'en.  His  41 father's clan is Tsayu.  42 THE COURT:  Well, you see, I often miss those nuances.  The  43 father's clan is --  44 MS. MANDELL:  Tsayu, T-s-a-y-u.  45 THE COURT:  And that's a Gitksan.  46 MS. MANDELL:  That's a Wet'suwet'en clan.  His mother's clan is  47 his Gitksan clan, which would be his -- 3174  1 THE COURT:  I'm sorry I'm a little thick this morning, but  2 there's something missing that I haven't picked up.  3 MS. MANDELL:  His father's clan is Tsayu and his evidence will  4 primarily concern his life among the Wet'suwet'en  5 father's clan.  His --  6 THE COURT:  So Tsayu is a —  7 MS. MANDELL:  Wet'suwet'en clan.  8 THE COURT:  Wet'suwet'en clan.  Is the witness a Gitksan or  9 Wet'suwet'en or is he both?  10 MS. MANDELL:  He's both.  He's a member of a Gitksan house and  11 clan.  12 THE COURT:  Yes.  All right.  13 MS. MANDELL:  And on his father's side he's a member of a  14 Wet'suwet'en -- well, he's -- his father's side is  15 Wet'suwet'en.  16 THE COURT:  His mother's clan was Gitksan?  17 MS. MANDELL:  That's correct.  18 THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you.  I'm sorry.  19 MS. MANDELL:  Thanks.  That's fine.  We were talking now about your training as a  hunter and as a trapper, and I'd like to first  concentrate on your training as a hunter and ask you,  as -- as a young boy how were you trained to become a  skilled shooter?  Early on when they first bought me that .22, he showed  me how to handle a gun, because I go out with him  sometimes hunting in that year, younger age.  And —  And I know how they shoot.  This is your father that you're talking about?  Yeah.  And did he teach you where to aim when you wanted to  kill a moose or a deer or a goat?  Yes.  And where is it that you were taught to aim?  Well, first -- my first shot from that .22 I miss a  whole tree.  After I practise and shooting good.  Like, I say "Where to aim?"  They said, "Any animal  you see, goat, deer, moose, bear, if they're standing  still, shoot the elbow.  That way with just one shot  you'll notice where you shoot that animal right on.  It just jumps quick and that's it.  Don't shoot it  again."  He says, "Nowadays white man, they see  animal, bang, bang, bang.  They spoil good meat."  So the reason why you were taught to shoot at the  elbow was to protect the meat?  20  Q  21  22  23  24  25  26  A  27  28  29  Q  30  A  31  Q  32  A  33  Q  34  35  A  36  Q  37  A  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  Q  47 1  A  2  3  Q  4  5  A  6  Q  7  A  8  Q  9  10  A  11  12  Q  13  14  A  15  16  17  Q  18  A  19  20  Q  21  22  A  23  Q  24  A  25  26  Q  27  A  28  Q  29  30  31  A  32  33  Q  34  35  A  36  Q  37  A  38  39  40  41  42  43  Q  44  45  A  46  Q  47  3175  Yeah.  Right where the elbow is, that's where the  heart is, right here.  And did your father take you to any of the territories  with him when he was shooting moose or deer or goat?  Sam Goosley.  Is that Namox's territory?  Namox's territory.  When you went out with him, would you go out every  year?  They almost go out pretty near every year. Sometimes  two or three years off.  And did -- were you encouraged to practise your  shooting as a young boy?  They keep asking me -- asking him to buy me more  shells, because I'm a good shooter.  I practise all  the time.  And what did you practise in shooting?  Targets, squirrel shooting. I shoot him right in the  head.  And was there any income for you in shooting  squirrels?  What's that?  Did you make any money in shooting squirrels?  Oh, yes.  Ten cents each.  That's lot of money for me  them days.  And weasels?  Did you shoot weasels?  No.  I trap them.  Okay. And where would you go -- actually, I'll leave  that aside for a minute. Did you also, when you were  younger, shoot bear with your father?  Sometimes. If we're in the territory we shoot bears,  Namox.  Namox territory.  And did your father teach you how to  deal with the wounded bear?  Yes.  And what did he teach you about that?  He said, "If you wound a bear or grizzly bear", he'd  say, "Don't go in after him right away".  And he  showed me, "Another thing is, any wounded bear will go  in a swamp or a water pond to keep his wound cold.  That's where they are".  He keep telling me, "That's  where you have to look for them if you wound them".  And is there -- did you go as well with your father to  to catch goats?  Yes.  Is there any special training which you were taught in  how to catch a goat? 1  A  2  Q  3  4  A  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Q  15  16  A  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  Q  27  28  29  A  30  Q  31  A  32  Q  33  A  34  Q  35  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  3176  You mean in our day or ancestors' days?  Well, beginning now just when you were out with your  father?  Oh.  When -- up by Moricetown there was me, my father,  Jimmy Morris, Dan Michell went up.  There is an old  mine, prospector's camp up that way.  That's when my  dad told us, "When you shoot a goat", he says, "don't  go shoot him right in the middle", he said.  He said,  "There's nothing but hair above the shoulder, eh.  You  miss him all the time".  So he taught us, "Shoot at  the elbow, right at the elbow.  You'll get him now",  because I know.  I tried and I miss him.  I shoot him  in the middle.  Is there a way that the Wet'suwet'en trap the goats?  Trap isn't the right word.  Ambush.  Ambush the goats.  Oh, you mean chasing the goat up the hill.  Old-timers, our ancestors, they use C'en C'aa.  Our  ancestors, all the clans would leave the village, go  up the mountains, and what they would do was to chase  the goats up the mountains.  The rest of them would be  waiting up on top on the trails of the goats, and  these people, as they were chasing them up, the ones  up on top would kill the goats with these sling-shot  contraptions since in those days there were no guns.  C'en C'aa, that's bow and arrow.  And once guns were introduced, did the Wet'suwet'en  continue to practise that method of trapping the  goats?  We still practise that.  Now, you also trapped beaver; is that correct?  Yes.  Did your father also train you to trap beaver?  Yes.  And did -- did Alfred Namox also play a role in  teaching you how to trap beaver?  Yes.  What role did Alfred Namox play?  For setting traps.  He told me, "Don't ever go walk  along the river bank or creek bank".  I was a young  kid that time.  I was with him.  What he did is walk,  oh, maybe hundred feet behind the bank, and he'd walk  straight out, set trap here, and he'd walk straight  back on this side and go around maybe two, three  hundred feet, another place.  He goes out, goes back.  He said, "Why?  Because there's beavers.  They're  underneath that bank.  They burrow a hole underneath  that bank there.  Sometimes they're back 10, 15 feet". 1  Q  2  3  A  4  Q  5  6  A  7  Q  8  A  9  Q  10  A  11  Q  12  A  13  Q  14  15  16  A  17  18  Q  19  20  21  A  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  Q  30  A  31  32  33  Q  34  35  A  36  Q  37  38  A  39  Q  40  41  42  A  43  44  45  46  47  3177  So he's teaching you not to alert the beaver to  your --  Yeah.  You don't alert the beaver.  Did you -- were you taken to trap beaver as a young  boy?  Yes.  And did you go to Namox's territory primarily?  Yes.  And did you trap with your father?  Yes.  And also with Alfred Namox?  Yes.  Did any of the other people -- any of the older  people, to your recollection, come with you when you  were a boy learning to trap beaver?  Later years I trapped beaver with late Sylvester  William lots.  Okay.  And were you shown how the Wet'suwet'en would  trap beaver before the white people's trapping methods  were used?  Before the white man introduced the traps, they had --  they used snares and deadfalls.  Also, in the winter  when the lakes or creeks froze over, they would make  snares with cedar bark rope, which they would lower in  the water and they knew when they caught a beaver.  They would pull it up and hit the beaver on the head  to kill it.  That's some of the methods that they used  before the traps were introduced.  And who -- who taught you of these methods?  My grandfather tell the stories like that.  He said  it's true.  My father tells me a lot of times when  we're out trapping.  When you say your grandfather, who are you referring  to?  My grandfather, Jimmy Michell, Albert Namox.  Were you also taught while you were younger to shoot  beaver?  Yes.  And are there places which you were taught where you  should not shoot beaver, locations where you should  not shoot beaver?  The way I was taught is that when you shoot beaver,  it's right by the beaver house.  You'll see -- my  father said, "You'll see one big fluffy beaver on the  water.  Don't shoot him".  He said, "It's a small one.  When you see just the head sticking out, okay, shoot  him.  That's a big one.  Leave them small ones alone". 1  Q  2  3  A  4  5  6  Q  7  8  A  9  Q  10  11  A  12  Q  13  14  A  15  16  Q  17  18  A  19  Q  20  21  22  23  A  24  25  26  27  Q  28  29  30  31  A  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  Q  39  40  41  A  42  43  44  Q  45  A  46  47  Q  3178  And were you taught whether you could shoot beaver in  fast moving water?  Never shoot beaver in fast moving water, like rivers,  creeks. Just behind the beaver dam where you can get  him so you don't lose him.  And were you taught this while you were on the  territory of Namox with your father as a young boy?  Yes.  You also were taught how to trap marten; is that  correct?  Yes.  And also when I say trap marten, I mean other  fur-bearing animals as well?  Marten, mink, lynx, fisher, coyote, fox, squirrel,  weasel.  I didn't trap skunk, but I caught one.  Did you keep it?  Did your father take you to Namox's  territory to trap these animals?  Yes.  And can you recall how often?  Did you go while you  were a boy from the time you were 10 to the time when  you were married to trap -- to trap marten and other  fur-bearing animals?  In the forties there was no jobs.  I was mostly  trapping.  I went out with him all the time.  Sometimes I'm out there alone, Sam Goosley, upper  part.  That would be east part of Sam Goosley area.  And when you -- were you responsible, when you set  traps as a young boy with your father, for any  particular traps or did you and your father both do  all the jobs together?  Okay.  When you're running along the line, if there's  two of you, you would alternate setting traps, but if  it's a short line, one person could do that, and it  takes four or five days to set all your traps on a  long line and two days in which to check them, whereas  a short line only takes you a day or so to set the  traps and to check them.  And when you would go with your father on a long line,  which might take four days, would you also camp along  the trapline?  Yes.  Half-way down the line we always build a  lean-to, fire in the middle, build a lean-to with  small logs like this, spruce bough for a roof.  Why do the Wet'suwet'en use spruce?  There are no toilet paper out there.  Spruce bough  is -- even if it rains, it doesn't leak right through.  Did your father show you how the Wet'suwet'en would 3179  1 trap marten before the white man's methods were  2 introduced?  3 A   They use deadfall.  4 Q   Can you explain how a deadfall works?  5 A   Deadfall, they make a little fence just narrow enough  6 for a marten to go in.  It will be about -- say about  7 foot long.  The deadfall is little pole about inch or  8 two in diameter at the bottom part, about 10 feet,  9 just heavy enough to squeeze the chest of a marten.  10 And it's set like this, and the bait stick is right  11 here, eh, and they put a little -- I don't know, some  12 kind of support on that stick.  The bait is over here.  13 When that marten pulls it out like that, the stick  14 slides the pin, this little pin here down.  It goes.  15 Never get away.  I set one, but I never caught one.  16 Q   Hard luck?  17 A   No.  Certain traps set.  My dad told me all these  18 along that main line we're talking about, along --  19 you'll see deadfalls along that.  My dad said that's  20 his grandfather's.  He's been there way before him.  21 Q   And this is the line that you're speaking about, the  22 long line which would take four days?  23 A   Long line to the other end.  24 Q   On Namox's territory?  25 A   To the cabin.  26 Q   When you were a young boy, were you also taken by your  27 father to trap on territories other than on the  28 Namox's territory, to your recollection?  2 9 A   One time my father and I drove up to the Telkwa River.  30 We didn't do any hunting or trapping.  He just showed  31 me where the best spots were for -- for beavers.  And  32 the reason he took me up there was because he was  33 Neg'edeld'es, or used to the territory on the father's  34 side.  35 Q   As a young boy, were you ever left alone overnight by  36 yourself on the trapline to either watch the traps or  37 set them?  38 A   In 1937 on the northeast side of Palling --  39 THE COURT:  Sorry.  Northeast side of?  40 MS. MANDELL:  Palling.  I think it's P-a-u-1-i-n.  41 THE SPELLER:  P-a-1-l-i-n-g.  42 MS. MANDELL:  43 Q   Sorry.  P-a-1-l-i-n-g.  44 A   Donald Walter had a farm there.  We were staying with  45 him, and Donald Walter had a trapline in that area.  46 Donald took the one line.  My father and me took that  47 other line.  We set that about one day's walk from his 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  THE  MS.  Q  A  Q  A  Q  A  COURT  3180  farm.  Couple days later my father send me back.  There were hack and ties that time, tie contract.  So  he send me with a little dog, called him Bobby.  I  took my time.  I got a cabin.  Next day went to check  the traps alone.  Camped in that cabin two nights.  I  went back to the farm, Donald Walter's.  He was proud  I did it.  How old were you then?  Thirteen years old.  Is Donald Walter a Wet'suwet'en?  Donald Walter?  Yes.  Do you remember what clan he was?  Laksilyu.  :  I'm sorry?  us that not all  skilled hunters  and  Can  THE COURT:  MANDELL:  Laksilyu.  Now, you've said to  Wet'suwet'en men are trained to be  trappers.  There's only some who will be trained,  you identify some people alive today known to be  skilled Wet'suwet'en hunters and trappers?  I think, Ms. Mandell, if you're going to start a  list, we may take a few minutes.  We'll take the  morning break now.  Thank you.  THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  Court recess.  (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED)  I hereby certify the foregoing to be  a true and accurate transcript of the  proceedings transcribed to the best  of my skill and ability.  Kathie Tanaka, Official Reporter  UNITED REPORTING SERVICE LTD. 3181  1 (PROCEEDINGS RECOMMENCED AFTER BRIEF RECESS)  2  3 THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  4 THE COURT:  Thank you, Miss Mandell.  5 MS. MANDELL:  Thank you.  6 Q   Mr. Mitchell, before the break I asked you whether or  7 not you could identify some of the people alive today  8 known to be skilled Wet'suwet'en hunters or trappers.  9 A  My brother, Billy Mitchell, skilled trapper and  10 hunter.  Henry Alfred, trapper and hunter.  Joseph  11 Mitchell, hunter and trapper.  Lizette Mitchell,  12 hunter and trapper.  13 Q   That's your mother-in-law?  14 A   That's my mother-in-law.  Charlotte Mitchell, trapper.  15 Josephine Michell, trapper.  Peter Jim, trapper and  16 hunter.  Dan Mitchell, trapper and hunter.  Victor  17 Jim, hunter.  Joe Namox, hunter and trapper.  He is  18 retired.  Madeline Alfred, trapper.  Alec Dennis,  19 trapper.  Florence Hall, trapper, retired.  Gordon  20 Hall, trapper and hunter, retired.  Amanda Dennis,  21 trapper.  Gunanoot, married name.  Cecil Alfred,  22 trapper and hunter.  Roy Morris, good hunter, good  23 trapper.  Eddie Morris, trapper and hunter.  Allan  24 Naziel, good trapper and hunter.  Roy Naziel, good  25 hunter.  Eddie Alfred, good hunter.  My son Vern, good  26 trapper and hunter.  John Mitchell, my son, good  27 hunter.  That's all that I can remember.  2 8 Q   The name that we have been hearing over and over in  29 the last few days is Bazil Michell.  30 A   Yes, Bazil.  Yes, that's right.  He's a trapper and  31 he's a good hunter.  32 Q   And would you identify your Aunt Emma Michell as well?  33 A   Yes, she's good trapper.  34 Q   All right.  Those are some of the people that you can  35 identify.  As a trained hunter and trapper, are you  36 invited by other Wet'suwet'en to train either  37 themselves or their children to hunt and trap?  38 A   Yes.  39 Q   And can you identify some of the people -- some of the  40 younger Wet'suwet'en people who you yourself have had  41 a chance in training or in the process of training  42 now?  43 A  Went to the Knedebeas' territory to trap beaver and  44 went with Sylvester William, and went out with Roger  45 Michell, training him, Kenny Mitchell, training him,  46 Gordie Holland, training him.  I trained my wife.  I  47 trained her to trap, skin beaver.  I trained them how 3182  1 to make Tsa c'ayh.  They call it Tsa c'ayh.  Preparing  2 beaver to be dried.  And we just throwing bones back  3 into the river.  4 THE TRANSLATOR:  T-s-a c'a-y-h.  5 MS. MANDELL:  My Lord, do you need Knedebeas?  6 THE COURT:  No, I have that.  7 THE COURT:  Did I get that right, it is T-s-a c'a-y-h?  8 THE TRANSLATOR:  Yes.  9 THE COURT:  And what is that please?  Is that the result or is  10 that a process?  Is that what's left of the beaver  11 meat after you've treated it?  12 THE WITNESS:   Yes.  What we do with beaver meat is we prepare  13 it for drying and just leave the bones out and throw  14 it back in the river.  15 THE COURT:   Yes.  And this word is the meat that's been dried,  16 is it?  17 THE WITNESS:  It's going to be prepared for drying.  It's called  18 Tsa c'ayh.  Very few people in the younger generations  19 knows how to do that, so I train them how to fix it  20 certain ways.   You just don't cut them in strips, the  21 beaver.  After awhile they got to be teached.  22 MS. MANDELL:  23 Q   What special knowledge do you need in order to make  24 that beaver meat properly?  25 A   Okay.  Skin the whole beaver and leave the guts in  26 there.  Sometimes we skin it the same night.  If we  27 are late in the evening, we just leave it in the  28 water.  It don't spoil.  After it is all skinned, you  29 turn the beaver belly down, cut it along the spine  30 both sides, and just peeling it, just peel it in  31 drips.  The guts still in there.  That way it's the  32 whole beaver eh.  It's not cut in strips or anything.  33 And what we do with the tails, in order to take  34 that -- a beaver tail is just like scales eh.  Heat it  35 up in the fire and turn it around, heat it up.  You  36 will see it puffs out some air.  Just peel it right  37 off.  That way they don't wreck the beaver tail.  You  38 dry it with a -- boy, make me hungry again.  39 Q   Twenty more minutes to lunch.  Did you have a hand in  40 training Henry Alfred to hunt or to trap?  41 A   Yes, I went out with him -- good hunting.  I showed  42 him how to shoot good, like my dad taught me.  43 Q   Was an invitation ever made to you that you were to  44 have rights to be on a territory as a result of the  45 fact that you would be training some of the children  46 of the house?  47 A   Christine Holland once told me, since you are always 3183  1 out with Sylvester and all my grandchildren are mostly  2 women, even though they are mostly women, you have  3 been teaching them.  And that is why she gave me  4 permission at the feast hall to hunt and trap Tai  5 biits kwe and Tac'etsoleen.  6 MS. MANDELL:   Get those names first.  7 THE TRANSLATOR:  Tac'etsoleen, 324, and Tai biits Kwe, I have to  8 spell it, T-a-1 b-i-i-t-s K-w-e.  9 MS. MANDELL:  10 Q   And Christine Holland was Knedebeas.  Did she hold the  11 chief's name Knedebeas at the time when she told you  12 this?  13 A   Yes, she was Knedebeas.  14 Q   And you say that there was an announcement made at the  15 feast hall.  Was that announcement made by Christine  16 Holland that you would be using the territory?  17 A   Yes.  18 Q   And can you recall approximately what year that  19 announcement was made?  20 A   It was in the sixties.  I don't know what year.  21 Q   And have you in fact trained as either a hunter or  22 trapper any of her grandchildren?  23 A   Yes, Roger Michell, who was Dan Michell's son, and  24 Gordie Holland have been teaching them, and I will  25 still be teaching them.  Roger Michell has approached  26 me on several occasions to go out on their territory,  27 so then I could teach them the Wet'suwet'en names that  28 are in the territory.  29 Q   All right.  I would ask that the witness be shown Tab  30 19 of the exhibit book.  Can you identify the people  31 who are in the picture?  I'm sorry, it's Tab 20 for  32 some reason in your exhibit book, Tab 19 in mine.  My  33 Lord, it should be in a photocopy in your book of two  34 young men.  35 THE COURT:  The one with the checkered shirt?  36 MS. MANDELL:  That's right, yes.  37 THE REGISTRAR: Do you want me to exchange that tab after?  38 MS. MANDELL:  Thank you.  39 Q   Can you identify the young men in the picture?  40 A   This young man in the picture right-hand side is Roger  41 Michell facing me, and the one that standing there is  42 skinning beaver.  43 THE COURT: Who is the other one, please?  44 THE WITNESS: Roger Michell.  45 THE COURT:  Did you give the name of the other one?  46 THE WITNESS:   Kenny Mitchell.  47 MS. MANDELL: 1  Q  2  3  A  4  Q  5  A  6  Q  7  A  8  Q  9  A  0  Q  1  2  A  3  Q  4  5  6  A  7  Q  8  A  9  MS.  MAN]  3184  And he had said, My Lord, that he was the one that is  skinning beaver.  They were both skinning beaver.  And did you take that picture?  I took that picture myself.  And where was the picture taken?  That's Morice River.  That's along Morice River.  Is that on Knedbeas's territory?  Knedbeas's territory.  And were you on that occasion teaching Roger how to  hunt and to trap?  Yes.  How to trap beaver.  Okay.  I would like that -- and I notice that the  words May, 1980 are written on the bottom of the  picture.  Is that your handwriting?  Yes.  Is that when the picture was taken?  Yes.  LL:   Okay.  I would ask that this then be marked as an  20 exhibit.  21 THE REGISTRAR:  Exhibit 183.  22  23 (EXHIBIT 183 - PHOTOGRAPH AT TAB 20 OF EXHIBIT  24 BOOK)  25  26 MS. MANDELL:  If we could just mark what is your Tab 20 as the  27 exhibit, I'll assist at the end in organizing them.  28 THE REGISTRAR:  Okay.  2 9 THE COURT:  Yes.  30 MS. MANDELL:  31 Q   Have you trained Warner Williams?  32 A   Him also, yes.  33 Q   And would you -- is he a grandchild of Christine  34 Holland?  35 A   Yes.  36 Q   And did you train him as well on Knedbeas's?  37 A  When Warner William was a boy, always going with his  38 dad, me and his dad, as I was training him.  39 Q   And would you consider him today to be one of the  40 skilled Wet'suwet'en hunters or trappers?  41 A   Still learning from trapping.  42 Q   Still learning trapping?  43 A   Yes.  44 Q   Okay.  Has any of the chiefs asked you to take their  45 children onto the territory to take beaver, other than  46 the example you have given us with Christine Holland?  47 A   David Dennis, his son -- his boy to my house.  He was 3185  1 staying a couple of houses from him one spring in  2 '80 -- I think it was in '84 anyway.  Anyway, he  3 wanted -- he wanted me to go see him.  That's what his  4 son told me.  So I went then to see David Dennis.  He  5 is deaf.  So his son -- he can talk to me but he can't  6 hear me.  And he said, David -- when I went to see  7 David, he said "Son, since you are a good trapper, I  8 want you to get me some beaver meat.  I want some  9 beaver meat to eat.  I don't want it for the fur."  He  10 also said his son did not do much trapping.  He  11 wasn't that good of a trapper, and that's why I am  12 asking you.  13 Q   Do you know what clan David Dennis was from?  14 A   Gilseyhu.  15 Q   And did he have -- I'm sorry, do you need that  16 spelling, My Lord?  17 THE COURT:  No.  18 MS. MANDELL:  19 Q   Did he have a chief's name?  Was his chief's name  20 Sats'aan?  21 A   Yes.  22 Q   And did he have territory which he asked you then to  23 go to for the beaver?  24 A   Territory behind Hudson's Bay mountain.  There is a  25 lake there called Dennis Lake.  2 6 THE COURT: I didn't get his chief's name.  27 MS. MANDELL:  Sats'aan.  28 THE TRANSLATOR:  195.  29 THE COURT:  195.  Thank you.  30 THE WITNESS: In an area called Keel Weniits.  He even showed me  31 where to get him from that road.  There is a road  32 right through there.  And of course Clarence was with  33 me.  Clarence knew where that creek.  34 MS. MANDELL:  35 Q   Is Clarence his son?  36 A   Clarence his son, yes.  We drove -- Clarence showed me  37 where to get -- he said go down oh, maybe a quarter  38 mile.  A beaver dam there.  For sure you get them  39 there at the creek.  And I walked straight in there  4 0 and I shot two beaver there.  Then we trapped a few  41 along that creek.  42 Q   All right.  And what did you -- how many beaver did  43 you trap and were you able to catch in Sats'aan's  44 territory that time?  45 A   I give two to David Dennis.  His son, I gave him two.  46 I get four.  And his son caught two for himself.  I  47 teach them how to set this corner bear trap. At first 3186  1 they didn't know how.  2 Q   Have you ever been asked, because you are a trained  3 hunter and trapper, to go into a territory to check  4 the territory for them?  5 A  My late father-in-law has got a trapline east of  6 Moricetown called Xeel Tatseliiyh.  Went there first  7 trip, take Alec Naziel, my son Allan was there.  We  8 went there first trip in the sixties anyhow.  Was  9 walking along up towards his trapline, where I have to  10 walk through Wah Tah K'eghts territory, there is a  11 trail goes up there, a pack trail, old mining trail,  12 where there is old traditional indian trail.  Mining  13 trail fixed it.  They used it.  Going up there -- get  14 on top of the hill, one place a name, G'etsa'lis.  He  15 showed me.  Called G'etsa'lis.  Go further up right on  16 top there is Decen Ts'ol tl'is.  And I ask them why  17 they do that.  I said, you know -- oh, he said, there  18 is one big dead tree standing there.  You pound on it  19 and you hear it echo, go across and back.  And that's  20 why Decen Ts'ol tl'is.  From there I went to Loteedlus  21 Nii gennaa, their main camp.  Pegs in the meadow to  22 tie their horses and stay overnight.  And I see that  23 last time I was there, still one peg --  24 THE COURT:  I think we better get some spellings, please, or  25 we're going to lose ourselves.  26 THE TRANSLATOR:  Okay.  Starting with Keel Weniits, 228.  That's  27 up at the lake.  2 8 THE COURT:  Yes.  29 THE TRANSLATOR: And Xeel Tatseliiyh, 571.  G'etsa'lis, 592.  30 Decen Ts'ol tl'is is 393, and Leteedlus Nii Gennaa is  31 397.  32 THE WITNESS:   I'm sorry, I'm working too fast for you guys.  33 Okay.  From there go still on the main trails, Ts'edi  34 sdee.  That's little rock with a bird.  We call that  35 Ts'edi sdee, bird.  What it is is they broke spruce  36 bough, put it on that rock, flat rock, and put that  37 Ts'edi sdee on top of that, and they face that little  38 bird where it was going.  Going up the hill with --  39 that was in the hunting that time.  4 0 MS. MANDELL:  41 Q   You have just described the trail that you were  42 walking to to get to Dick Naziel's territory; is that  43 correct?  44 A   Yes, that's the one.  45 Q   And that trail was within Wah Tah Keght's territory?  46 A   Yes.  47 Q   And was Dick Naziel at that time -- did he hold the 3187  1 chief's name Woos?  2 A   He holds different name.  I couldn't pronounce it.  3 Q   Were you, though, heading to Woos's territory?  4 A   Yes.  5 Q   And when you were asked to check the territory, what  6 did Dick Naziel ask you to do?  7 A   Oh, was going to beaver trapping.  After went past  8 that Ts'edi sdee, this is our boundary, told me, Nee  9 biil dilyee, and then it goes in little ways.  That's  10 the boundary.  We stopped there and there is another  11 mountain right across east side from where we were  12 standing.  They point up that mountain.  Bec'et  13 K'esdiilih they call that mountain.  From that  14 mountain is goes down the ridge, go north.  15 THE COURT:  I'm sorry, can we get the name of that mountain.  16 THE TRANSLATOR: 581.  17 THE COURT:  Yes.  18 MS. MANDELL:  19 Q   And then did you end then Woos's territory?  20 A   Yes.  21 Q   That was a trip -- did you make that trip that you  22 have just described to us with Dick Naziel present?  23 A   Yes, it was there just for beaver trapping that time.  24 Q   And after that trip did Dick Naziel ask you to go back  25 into the territory to check the territory?  26 A  After that first trip we went back with Dick again.  27 It was the same bunch, three of us.  A few years later  28 he ask me and Allan Naziel, his son, and Roy Naziel,  29 his son, to go check territory.  That's what we did.  30 We got two beaver.  31 Q   And did you bring any of those beaver back to Dick  32 Naziel?  33 A   Yes.  34 MS. MANDELL:   I think that's as far as we are going to be able  35 to go today, My Lord.  36 THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you.  37 MS. MANDELL:  Is anybody missing names?  38 THE COURT:  There might have been one at the very end there.  39 The bird and the rock.  40 THE TRANSLATOR: 396.  41 MR. RUSH:  This is the bird and a rock that Henry Alfred also  42 spoke about in his evidence.  4 3 THE COURT:  396.  44 THE TRANSLATOR:  Yes.  367, that was the boundary.  45 THE COURT:  Is that the ridge that goes down from the mountain  46 called 581?  47 MR. RUSH: That would be the mountain that's called 367. 3188  1 THE COURT:  What was the number please?  2 MS. MANDELL:  367.  My Lord, I also wish to advise that Johnny  3 Mac, an elder of the Laksamshu clan, passed away last  4 night, and he is a member of the clan of the witness.  5 I don't believe that's going to cause -- I think the  6 witness will continue to chose to come here to testify  7 next week, but I wanted to advise Your Lordship of the  8 death and the fact that we are going to -- that many  9 of the Wet'suwet'en people down here this week will be  10 now up in their territory next week to be there for  11 the funeral feast.  12 THE COURT:  All right.  Well, I have to leave the counsel to  13 make whatever arrangements they can, and I will be  14 glad to hear from you in that connection on Monday  15 morning.  Thank you.  16 THE REGISTRAR:  Order in court.  17  18 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 12:00 P.M.)  19  20 I HEREBY CERTIFY THE FOREGOING TO  21 BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE TRANSCRIPT  22 OF THE PROCEEDINGS HEREIN TO THE  23 BEST OF MY SKILL AND ABILITY.  24  25  2 6 LORI OXLEY  27 OFFICIAL REPORTER  2 8 UNITED REPORTING SERVICE LTD.  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47


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