Delgamuukw Trial Transcripts

Cross-Examination on Affidavit of Elizabeth Jack British Columbia. Supreme Court Dec 2, 1988

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 <3fn tl[t £&uprtmt Cnurt oi Jirtitsli Columbia  Na 0843  Smithers Registry  BETWEEN  Smithers, B. C.  December 2, 1988  AND  DELGAMUUKW, also know as KEN MULDOE,  suing on his own behalf and on behalf  of all other members of the HOUSE OF  DELGAMUUKW, and others,  Plaintiffs;  HER MAOESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE  PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA and  THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL FOR CANADA,  Defendants  CROSS-EXAMINATION ON AFFIDAVIT  OF  ELIZABETH JACK  UNITED REPORTING SERVICE LTD., 610 -1030 WEST GEORGIA STREET, VANCOUVER, RC V6E 4H4 (604) 689-1088 <3n tl[t J&uprtmt Court of JSritislj Columbia  Na 0843  Smithers Registry  BETWEEN  Smithers, B. C.  December 2, 1988,  AND  DELGAMUUKW, also know as KEN MULDOE,  suing on his own behalf and on behalf  of all other members of the HOUSE OF  DELGAMUUKW, and others,  Plaintiffs;  HER MAOESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF THE  PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA and  THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL FOR CANADA,  Defendants,  CROSS-EXAMINATION ON AFFIDAVIT  OF  ELIZABETH 3ACK  MURRAY ADAMS, Esq.,  MS. LORYL RUSSELL,  DARRELL O'BYRNE, Esq.,  appearing for the Plaintiffs;  appearing for the Defendant  Attorney-General for Canada;  appearing for the Defendant  Province of British Columbia.  11111  Seating  UNITED REPORTING SERVICE JD, 610 -1030 WEST GEORGIA STREET. VANCOUVER aC V6E 4H4 (604) 689-1088 Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  1 Smithers B. C.  2 December 2, 1988.  3  4 RITA GEORGE, Interpreter, Sworn:  5 ELIZABETH JACK, Sworn:  6  7 CROSSrEXAMINATION_BY_MRi O'BYRNE:  8  9 MR. O'BYRNE:   Just for the record, I am appearing on behalf of  10 counsel for the Province of British Columbia, and with  11 me is Ms. Thora Sigurdson.  12 MS. RUSSELL:  My name is Loryl Russell and I am appearing as  13 agent for the Attorney-General of Canada.  14 MR. ADAMS:  My name is Murray Adams and I am one of counsel for  15 the plaintiffs.  16 MR. O'BYRNE:  Mr. Adams, just for the record, perhaps we could  17 have the full name of the translator in this matter?  18 THE INTERPRETER: Rita George.  And I did want to ask the  19 translator a couple of questions about her translating  20 ability and whether or not she has taken the  21 appropriate courses and she is certified.  22 MR. ADAMS:  I don't have any objection to the question.  23 MR. O'BYRNE:  Perhaps then you could advise me if you have taken  24 a course it translation?  25 THE INTERPRETER:   Yes, I did.  26 Q  And have you been certified?  27 A  Yes.  28 Q  How long have you been translating?  29 A  I went to school for three months.  I have my  30 certificate and I have been translating quite a bit  31 for the court here.  32 Q  And that is in Cheslatta or in Cheslatta and  33 ... Wet'suwet'en?  34 A  I have done one person in Cheslatta in court before.  35 Q  And have you done any Wet'suwet'en?  36 A  Yes.  37 MR. O'BYRNE:  All right.  Are you a member of any house in this  38 action?  39 A  Yes, I am.  40 Q  And what is that house name, please?  41 A  Gisday wa.  42 Q  All right.  From here on all of the questions I will  43 be directing to the witness as if you are the witness;  44 do you understand that?  45 A  Yes.  46 Q  Mrs. Jack, could I please have your full name?  47 A  Elizabeth Jack. Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  And what is your date of birth, please?  March 21st, 1928.  And where were you born, please?  Ootsa Lake.  And did you live at Ootsa Lake for all of your life?  In Cheslatta.  And when did you move from there?  We live at Cheslatta, but we frequently go back to  Ootsa Lake.  I was raised at Cheslatta.  Did you attend school?  I didn't go to school.  Are you able to read and write English?  No.  I am able to just sign my name.  I am showing to you what I am told is Exhibit 666 in  this trial, a three page document with a signature; do  you recognize the signature?  Yes.  And, just for the record, that's an affidavit that's  sworn the 19th day of July, 1988 at Hazelton, British  Columbia.  That signature is your signature?  Yes.  And do you recall where you signed this document?  Hagwilget.  And that's near Hazelton, is it?  Yes.  Hazelton is near where there is a bridge and  there is fishing area and that's where it is.  Was this affidavit translated to you?  Myself.  Perhaps the question wasn't understood.  I will ask  the question again. Was this affidavit translated to  you from English into Cheslatta?  It was written in English.  Was — were the English words read to you in  Cheslatta?  No.  And you're unable to read English; is that correct?  No.  I know how to talk English but I can't write.  Did anyone tell you what the English words said on  these papers?  The person that made that letter out read the letter  to me.  By that letter, are you referring to this document  that I showed you with your signature on it?  Yes.  They read this out to me and then I signed it.  Who read it out to you?  Marvin George.  1  Q  2  A  3  Q  4  A  5  Q  6  A  7  Q  8  A  9  10  Q  11  A  12  Q  13  A  14  Q  15  16  17  A  18  Q  19  20  21  22  A  23  Q  24  A  25  Q  26  A  27  28  Q  29  A  30  Q  31  32  33  A  34  Q  35  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  Q  40  41  A  42  43  Q  44  45  A  46  Q  47  A Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  1 Q  And what language did he read it out to you in?  2 A  Babine.  He was speaking in Babine.  3 Q  Is Babine the same as Cheslatta?  4 A  It's the same but it's slightly different.  I can't  5 talk — I can't speak the Babine language myself.  6 Q  Can't or can?  7 A  I can't speak the Babine language.  8 Q  Do the people at Hagwilget and Moricetown speak the  9 Babine language?  10 A  Yes.  11 Q  Did you understand all of the words that Marvin George  12 read to you?  13 A  Yes.  14 MR. O'BYRNE:  Just for the the record, Mr. Adams, I notice  15 there is no affidavit of translation provided with  16 this affidavit; is that correct?  17 MR. ADAMS:  I am not aware of it.  My instructions are, if it's  18 of any assistance, that was also read to her in  19 English.  If you want to pursue that you are welcome  20 to or I can come back to it.  21 MR. O'BYRNE:  22 Q  Who else besides Marvin George was present when this  23 was read to you in Babine?  24 A  There was a lawyer and there was a lady there.  25 Q  Do you know the lawyer's name?  26 A  No.  27 Q  Do you know the other lady's name?  28 A  No.  29 Q  That time you have told me about at Hagwilget, was  30 that the first time you saw this letter, as you call  31 it?  32 A  They made out that letter in Prince George and  33 afterwards I signed it.  They brought it down to  34 Hagwilget and I signed it.  35 Q  When you signed it in Hagwilget was that the first  36 time you had seen the letter?  37 A  No.  I didn't see it.  38 Q  Did you discuss the words in the letter with Marvin  39 George?  40 A  No.  41 Q  How many times did Marvin George read this to you?  42 A  Once.  43 Q  Did you look at any maps when Marvin George read this  44 to you?  45 A  NOi  46 Q  Have you ever looked at a map that shows the territory  47 that you talk about in your affidavit? Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  He showed it to me when I was in Prince George.  Who showed it to you when you were in Prince George?  Marvin George.  And what did he show you on the map?  He asked me about the territory.  He asked me about  the territory where we trapped.  And did you show him the territory where you trapped  on the map?  Yes.  And this map, did it already have your trapping  territory marked on it?  Yes.  And did you make any corrections to the markings that  were on the map that showed your territory?  No.  Did the map that you were shown by Marvin George  correctly show the territory?  Yes.  When were you first asked by Marvin George about the  territory?  I was in Prince George when he asked me about the  territory and then they made out that letter.  And was that in February of 1988?  Yes.  And when Marvin George was talking to you in February  of 1988 about the territory, was anybody else present?  No.  Did you talk to anybody else about the boundaries of  the territory that you talk about in your affidavit?  NO.  Were you living in Prince George when Marvin George  came to talk to you in February of 1988?  Yes.  And how long had you been living in Prince George as  at February, 1988?  Five years.  And do you still live in Prince George?  Yes.  Now, I would like to ask you some questions about your  family, Mrs. Jack. Who was your father?  Batise Louie.  And he was the brother of Chief Louie; is that  correct?  Yes.  So, Chief Louie was your uncle?  Yes.  And did Chief Louie have a chief's name?  1  A  2  Q  3  A  4  Q  5  A  6  7  Q  8  9  A  10  Q  11  12  A  13  Q  14  15  A  16  Q  17  18  A  19  Q  20  21  A  22  23  Q  24  A  25  Q  26  27  A  28  Q  29  30  A  31  Q  32  33  A  34  Q  35  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  Q  40  41  A  42  Q  43  44  A  45  Q  46  A  47  Q Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  I don't think so.  I don't know.  I don't know if he  has got a name or not.  Do you know if Chief Louie was a member of a house?  Yes.  What house?  I don't know about his house.  Was Chief Louie a member of the Tsayu clan?  Yes.  So was my dad, Batise Louie.  So your dad, Batise Louie, was also a member of the  Tsayu clan?  Yes.  Was Chief Louie a member of the House of Kloum Khun?  Yes.  Your mother's name was Anastasia?  Yes.  And did she have a chief's name?  Yes.  What was that, please?  I don't remember.  She told me but I don't remember.  And your husband's name?  Mack Jack.  And you have children, do you?  Mack Jack.  Could I have the rest of that translated, please?  She was wondering if you were wondering if it's this  one you're talking about.  She was indicating somebody else in the room?  Yes.  Well,   is this  the  one  I  am  talking about?  No,   that's  not  Mack  Jack.  You have five children, do you?  Yes.  What are their names, please?  Mary, Toby, Ida and Hilda and Dora.  Do you have any grandchildren?  Yes.  How many do you have?  About eight.  Do any of your children — please translate that.  Mary lives at Mission and I guess you can't keep track  of her grandchildren.  Do any of your children or grandchildren live on the  territory that you described in your affidavit?  No.  Now, in your affidavit you talk about a territory  which is Wedzen Ben.  I withdraw the question.  I read the description of  1  A  2  3  Q  4  A  5  Q  6  A  7  Q  8  A  9  Q  10  11  A  12  Q  13  A  14  Q  15  A  16  Q  17  A  18  Q  19  A  20  Q  21  A  22  Q  23  A  24  Q  25  A  26  27  Q  28  A  29  Q  30  A  31  Q  32  A  33  Q  34  A  35  Q  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  Q  40  A  41  42  Q  43  44  A  45  Q  46  47 Elizabeth Jack   (For  Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr.  O'Byrne  what it's near.  Perhaps the translator would put the name of the  territory to the witness.  I just want to confirm that  it's the Tahtsa Lake territory.  Just put that one  name to her and then I will put a question to her  about it.  Tsee Cul Tes Dleez Ben.  That is also known as the Tahtsa Lake territory?  Yes.  And that's the territory you talk about in your  affidavit; is that correct?  Yes.  You say that your father, Batise Louie, and your  uncle, Chief Louie, told you where this territory is;  is that correct?  Yes.  Did anybody else tell you where the boundaries of the  territory are?  No.  Have you discussed the boundaries with anybody other  than Chief Louie and your father Batise Louie?  No.  How old were you when your father first showed you the  boundaries of the territory?  We always go there to do our hunting.  I was raised on  there and we always go down there.  Did you go hunting with both your father, Batise  Louie, and your uncle, Chief Louie?  Yes.  And how old were you the last time that you hunted  with Chief Louie?  I don't remember.  Is it true the last time you were in the territory was  in the year 1950?  Yes.  What year did Chief Louie die in?  In 1951.  What year did your father, Batise Louie, die?  1967.  It could be 1957.  I forgot when it was.  Did you also travel around the Tahtsa Lake territory  with Keom Morris?  Yes.  And did Keom Morris have the right to trap and hunt on  the Tahtsa Lake territory?  Yes.  The territory to the east of the Tahtsa Lake  territory, did Keom Morris also trap and hunt and fish  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  A  8  Q  9  A  10  Q  11  12  A  13  Q  14  15  16  A  17  Q  18  19  A  20  Q  21  22  A  23  Q  24  25  A  26  27  Q  28  29  A  30  Q  31  32  A  33  Q  34  35  A  36  Q  37  A  38  Q  39  A  40  Q  41  42  A  43  Q  44  45  A  46  Q  47 Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  1 on that territory?  2 A  Yes.  3 Q  Did Keom Morris ever show you the boundary on the east  4 side of the Tahtsa Lake territory?  5 A  No, he never talked about it to me.  6 Q  Did you ever travel in the area of a point known as  7 Mount Sweeney with either your father, Batise Louie,  8 or your uncle, Chief Louie?  9 A  I travel around with them and we did a lot of trapping  10 in that area.  11 Q  Did you ever trap in the area near Mount Sweeney known  12 in English as Sibola Mountain?  13 A  No.  14 Q  Is the area at Sibola Mountain part of the Tahtsa Lake  15 territory you refer to in your affidavit?  16 A  Yes.  17 Q  So you say that Sibola Mountain is part of the Tahtsa  18 Lake territory?  19 A  Yes.  20 Q  Why did you leave that out of your affidavit?  21 A  They didn't ask me about it.  22 Q  Does one-half of Sibola Mountain belong to the Tahtsa  23 Lake territory and the other half to some other  24 territory?  25 A  What do you mean by Sibola Mountain?  Is it the  26 mountain that's called Tsaa Dzel?  27 Q  Perhaps for the translator I will spell out the name I  28 am referring to.  N-D-E-'-D-E-T-E-E-S-T-'-A-Y. Are you  29 able to pronounce that?  30 MR. ADAMS:  I wonder if I could make a suggestion, if we ask  31 Alfred Joseph to pronounce them.  I think the  32 translator may have some problem with the Romanization  33 of the names, in the line we have had word people as  34 well as translators going at the same time.  35 MR. O'BYRNE:  I have no difficulty if another person can provide  36 us with the translation of what that word is.  37 A  Nde'Deteest'ay.  3 8   MR. O'BYRNE:  Mr. Adams, there is somebody else conversing with  39 the witness.  40 MR. ADAMS:  I have no ask you not to speak to her while she is  41 testifying, please.  42 MR. O'BYRNE:  43 Q  Could I have that translated, please?  44 A  She said I didn't know what that word meant.  45 Q  What does that word mean?  46 A  The word Nde'Deteest'ay?  47 Q  Yes, ask her, please. Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  When we say t'ay, it means south, so it means the  mountain that's to the south.  Do you know a mountain or mountain range, by that  name?  That's a name that has — Nde'Deteest'ay is the name  of that mountain.  Is that mountain near Mount Sweeney?  I don't remember.  Is that mountain on the territory that you described  in your affidavit?  Yes.  And is that mountain one of the boundaries or on the  boundary of your territory that you describe in your  affidavit?  Yes.  In your affidavit you say that Mount Sweeney is the  boundary of your land.  Is your affidavit wrong?  What mountain are you talking about?  Do you recall having the description of your territory  translated to you by Marvin George?  I forgot.  Do you know a Cheslatta word for Mount Sweeney?  She is asking what mountain are you talking about?  I am referring to page four — that is a copy of the  affidavit?  It's the centre page and I am referring to  the English words that come after Tahtsa Lake to Mount  Sweeney.  Could the translator translate into  Cheslatta the first sentence to the paragraph,  "Starting at Tsaa Dzel (Tsah Mountain), the boundary  runs east along the height of land north of Tahtsa  Lake to Mount Sweeney." Would you please read that to  her?  Yes.  Do you recall Marvin George reading those words out to  you?  Yes.  And he read those to you in Babine; is that right?  He read it out to me in English.  Was the only English word he used Mount Sweeney?  Yes.  Did he use any other English words?  Yes.  Did he read the whole description of your territory to  you in English?  Yes.  And you didn't understand it, did you?  Yes.  1  A  2  3  Q  4  5  A  6  7  Q  8  A  9  Q  10  11  A  12  Q  13  14  15  A  16  Q  17  18  A  19  Q  20  21  A  22  Q  23  A  24  Q  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  A  34  Q  35  36  A  37  Q  38  A  39  Q  40  A  41  Q  42  A  43  Q  44  45  A  46  Q  47  A Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  1 Q  You did understand it?  2 A  Yes.  3 Q  Are these your words that are the description?  4 A  Yes.  5 Q  These are the words of Marvin George, aren't they?  6 Could I have the reply, please, before you continue?  7 Could I have the reply?  8 A  He read it out to me in Babine language.  9 Q  And you were asked a question by the witness too.  10 A  Yes, she wanted to know what's this, and I just told  11 her, I just read out to you in my language where my  12 boundary starts, it says on paper here, and then she  13 said in Babine language.  14 Q  You told me that you were not asked if Sibola Mountain  15 was part of your territory, do you recall that?  16 A  No.  They were asking me about it but I didn't know  17 about that.  I didn't know what mountain they were  18 talking about.  19 Q  Were you asked if — and that's the word I want  20 translated — that mountain was part of your  21 territory?  22 A  Yes.  23 Q  And just for the record, could you give me the  24 pronunciation of those words? I gave you the  25 spelling, N-D-E-'-D-E-T-E-E-S-T-'-A-Y.  26 A  Nde'Deteest'ay.  27 MR. ADAMS:  Just for the record, the English words appear beyond  28 that are Sibola Range and not Sibola Mountain.  29 MR. O'BYRNE:  30 Q  Now, were you asked about that area by Marvin George?  31 A  Yes.  32 Q  And did you tell him that that area was not in the  33 territory you described?  34 A  Yes.  35 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AND RESUMED FOLLOWING RECESS)  36 MR. O'BYRNE:  37 Q  Mrs. Jack, you had told me that you went on the land  38 that you described in your affidavit with your father,  39 Batise Louie, and your uncle, Chief Louie, to hunt, I  40 believe you said; is that correct?  41 A  Yes.  42 Q  And did you get the permission of Chief Louie to go on  43 the Tahtsa Lake territory?  44 A  They all go trap in that territory.  I don't  45 remember — I don't know where my dad and his place  46 is.  47 Q  Well, this Tahtsa Lake territory was Chief Louie's 10  Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  territory, correct?  It is their territory but I don't know where — I  don't know where his trapline is.  His trapline you're referring to, is that Chief  Louie's trapline?  I don't know about Chief Louie's trapline and his  trapline is all in one.  If somebody else wanted to trap on that territory, the  Tahtsa Lake territory, they would have to ask Chief  Louie's permission?  Yes.  Chief Louie was Cheslatta, correct?  What was your question?  I am sorry.  Chief Louie was Cheslatta, correct?  Yes.  Your father, Batise Louie, was also a Cheslatta?  Yes. That's his brother, can't be different place.  Neither Chief Louie nor Batise Louie were  Wet'suwet'en?  No.  Are you aware that Chief Louie sold his trapline to  non-Indian people?  No.  Did you know if Chief Louie ever sold his trapline to  anybody?  No.  Do you know who took over Chief Louie's trapline after  he died?  Nobody.  Do you know a George Louie, who had a registered  trapline in the Tahtsa Lake territory?  No.  Did any member of Chief Louie's family or house trap  in the Tahtsa Lake territory after he died?  No.  I was the only person that trapped there and I  went back there the last time.  When was that?  1952.  It's written right in here when I — the last  time I went in there with Keom Morris.  Could you show me where it's written in there? By  that I am referring to the affidavit.  She said it could be in another paper that you were  reading out of. You referred that Keom Morris and I  went out the last time. That's the only time, the  last time I have been in that territory.  Just so that I have this straight, so the last time  you were in the Tahtsa Lake territory was 1952 with  1  2  A  3  4  Q  5  6  A  7  8  Q  9  10  11  A  12  Q  13  A  14  Q  15  A  16  Q  17  A  18  Q  19  20  A  21  Q  22  23  A  24  Q  25  26  A  27  Q  28  29  A  30  Q  31  32  A  33  Q  34  35  A  36  37  Q  38  A  39  40  Q  41  42  A  43  44  45  46  Q  47 11  Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  1 Keom Morris and you were trapping; is that correct?  2 A Yes.  3 Q And you told somebody that and they wrote it down; is  4 that correct?  5 A The person that wrote a letter out for me wrote it  6 down.  7 Q But you don't know if that information is in your  8 letter or affidavit, do you?  9 A Yes.  10 Q It's not in your affidavit, is it?  11 A No.  12 Q Are you aware that there are mineral claims in the  13 Tahtsa Lake property or territory?  14 A No.  15 Q Do you know if anybody has trapped in that territory  16 after 1952 when you were there with Keom Morris?  17 A No.  18 Q And do you know who Keom Morris asked for permission  19 to go on the territory and trap in 1952?  20 A I asked him to come with me.  I told him I want to go  21 back to the territory and he came with me.  22 Q Did you show Keom Morris the way to the territory?  23 A We just went out there and hunted and trapped.  24 Q Did you ask Keom Morris to come along so that you  25 would know that you were on the right territory?  26 A Yes.  27 Q Did Keom Morris show you various boundaries and places  28 on the territory?  29 A No.  30 Q How were you taught the territory boundaries?  31 A Ever since I was a little kid we go out trapping all  32 the time and I know the territory.  33 Q Have you walked all the way around the territory?  34 A Yes.  35 Q When was the last time you did that?  36 A 1952, in 1952 was the last time we went there.  Since  37 then I haven't been out there.  38 Q In 1952 did you walk all of the territory's boundaries  39 with Keom Morris?  40 A Yes.  41 Q And did Keom Morris help you find the boundaries so  42 you could walk around them?  43 A I know the boundary myself and we went out.  44 Q Do you know who owns the territory now?  45 A I don't know.  46 Q who gave you authority*to swear the affidavit about  47 the boundaries of the territory? 12  Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Cross-exam by Mr. O'Byrne  They asked me questions about the territory and they  wrote down what I told them.  Who is the "they"?  The same person that wrote down.  And who is that person?  I don't remember.  I forgot their name.  Was it Marvin George?  Yes.  And you talked to Marvin George three times about this  territory before you signed your affidavit, isn't that  right?  He asked me twice, he asked me in Prince George and  when I was fishing down there.  Is down there Hagwilget?  Yes.  So how many times did you speak to Marvin George, two  times or three times?  Twice.  Didn't you speak to Marvin George once by telephone in  Prince George?  Yes.  So did you speak to Marvin George twice in person and  once by phone?  Yes.  So you spoke to Marvin George three times then?  Yes.  Marvin George told you at one time that your  description of the territory was not correct; is that  right?  Yes.  And did you change your description to what Marvin  George told you?  Yes.  Why?  What's written down you're talking about?  Why did you change your description of the lands to  the words Marvin George told you?  He only wrote down what I told him.  Did you tell him that this Tahtsa Lake territory  belonged to a Wet'suwet'en chief?  We talked about the territory but I don't know who the  territory belongs to.  Did you get permission from anybody to talk about the  territory in your affidavit?  No.  BYRNE:  I have no further questions.  1  A  2  3  Q  4  A  5  Q  6  A  7  Q  8  A  9  Q  10  11  12  A  13  14  Q  15  A  16  Q  17  18  A  19  Q  20  21  A  22  Q  23  24  A  25  Q  26  A  27  Q  28  29  30  A  31  Q  32  33  A  34  Q  35  A  36  Q  37  38  A  39  Q  40  41  A  42  43  Q  44  45  A  46  MR. O'B'  47 13  Elizabeth Jack   (For  Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr.  Adams  1 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION)  2 MS. RUSSELL:  I have no questions.  3 MR. ADAMS:  I have a very few.  4  5 BEzEXAMINATION_BY_MR^_ADAMS:  6  7 MR. ADAMS:  8 Q  Elizabeth, you were asked by Mr. O'Byrne for the  9 province about going on to the Tahtsa Lake territory  10 with your father and Chief Louie to hunt and you said  11 that you had and you have referred also to trapping  12 there.  My question is:  Apart from hunting and  13 trapping, while you were living on the Tahtsa Lake  14 territory, were there other things you did there as  15 well?  16 A  We trapped all the way but the last time was in 1951.  17 Q  Did you or people from your family ever fish on that  18 territory?  19 MR. O'BYRNE:  That's leading and I object.  Also doesn't arise.  20 MR. ADAMS:  First of all, it's not leading because the answer  21 might be no.  Secondly, there is already a ruling in  22 court that where questions are asked, when Mr. Antoine  23 was being examined, and Mr. Grant was allowed to ask  24 that question in precisely those terms.  25 MR. O'BYRNE:  I object to the form of the question because it's  26 leading.  27 MR. ADMAS:  It can't be leading, did you fish, there is no other  28 way to ask that.  If you are maintaining your  29 objection, I will seek a ruling to have it answered.  30 MR. O'BYRNE:  Go ahead, subject to the objection.  31 MR. ADAMS:  32 Q  My question, Ms. Jack, is did you fish on the Tahtsa  33 Lake territory during the time you were born and  34 between 1951 and '52 when you were last there?  35 A  Yes.  36 Q  What did you fish for?  37 A  Trout.  38 Q  Did you pick berries on that territory?  39 A  Yes.  40 Q  What kind?  41 A  About July.  42 Q  Sorry my question was, what kind?  43 A  Huckleberries.  44 Q  Now, you were asked a question about the Tahtsa Lake  45 territory and you were asked whether that was Chief  46 Louie's territory and you said that it was.  My  47 question is: Was that Chief Louie's territory because 14  Elizabeth Jack (For Plaintiffs)  Re-exam by Mr. Adams  1 he had a government registered trapline there or was  2 it Chief Louie's territory because it was his  3 traditional Indian territory?  4 A  They own territory in Indian way.  5 MR. ADAMS:  Those are all my questions.  Thank you.  6  7 (Concluded)  8 I hereby certify the foregoing to be  9 a true and accurate transcript  10 of the proceedings herein to the best  11 of my skill and ability.  12  13  14  15  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  W^fip^  16 Wilf Roy ^-J  17 Official Reporter

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