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RETURN To an Address of the Legislative Assembly, praying for copies of all correspondence between the… British Columbia. Legislative Assembly. 1876

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 758 Correspondence—McKinlay and others. 1876
RETURN
To an Address of the Legislative Assembly, praying for copies of all correspondence between the Chief Commissioner of Lands and "Works and
William Manson, Archibald McKinlay, and Patrick Gannon, in connection
with a pastoral lease granted to them.
.By Command.
Forbes Geo. Vernon,
Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works.
The  Chief Commissioner of Lands and  Works to Messrs. P. Gannon;
Archibald McKinlay, and William Manson.
Lands and Works Office,
Victoria, August 14th, 1872.
Gentlemen,—In reply to your letter, received on the 14th inst., stating that you
had some time ago applied to Mr. Sanders for a lease of pastoral land adjoining your
pre-emption claims, with a view to protect your cattle ranges from being taken up by
other persons beyond your limits, 1 have the honour to inform you that the Government
has decided not to issue any more pastoral leases for the present. I may further add,
that no leases have been granted for several months past, and the persons to whom, I
think, you refer as having applied for the range contiguous to your lands have neither
received a lease nor a promise of a lease.
I shall also make a memorandum on their application of the contents of your letter,
and that your interests must be guarded in the event of the Government hereafter
deciding, in my absence, that leases should be issued. You may therefore rest satisfied
that your rights will not be invaded. I have, &c,
(Signed) Geo. A. Walkem.
Telegrams.
The Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works to Messrs. Gannon, McKinlay,
and Manson.
Victoria, 3rd May, 1873.
Have instructed Beak to remove sheep.     See that he does, and inform me.
(Signed) Eobert Beaven.
The Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works to Mr. Charles Beak.
Victoria, 3rd May, 1873.
You must not pasture sheep upon land applied for by Gannon and McKinlay.
* (Signed) Robert Beaven.
The Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works to Messrs. Gannon, McKinlay,
and Manson.
Lands and Works Department,
Victoria, 5th June, 1873.
Gentlemen,—I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your application for
about four thousand acres of land as a pastoral lease, and to inform you that the Government are prepared to grant a lease of the amount above stated for a term of five
years from 1st June, 1873, at a yearly rental of four cents per acre per annum, payable 39 Vic. Correspondence—McKinlay and others. 759
either yearly or half-yearly in advance, with a survey fee of fifty dollars, and the
balance of costs of survey when required. Should you wish to accept these terms please
pay the rental and survey fee to Mr. Pope, the Government Agent at Clinton, and
advise me accordingly. I have, &c,
(Signed) Eobert Beaven.
Messrs. P. Gannon, Archibald McKinlay, and W. Manson to the Chief
Commissioner of Lands and Works.
117 Mile House, Lao La Hache,
16th June, 1873.
Sir,—We have the honour to acknowledge yours of the 5th inst., and beg to state
that we  have complied with the conditions of the same by remitting Mr. Pope eighty
dollars half-yearly rental money, and fifty dollars for the purpose of surveying the land
referred to. We have, &c,
P. Gannon,
(Signed) Archibald McKinlay.
William Manson.
Messrs. P. Gannon, Archibald McKinlay, and William Manson to the Chief
Commissioner of Lands and Works.
Lao La Hache, 12th September, 1874.
Sir,—With reference to our pastoral lease, we would beg respectfully to submit the
following points for you consideration, viz:— .
1st. We concluded to sign the lease sent us, and pay the amount demanded for account
of rent first, stating afterwards vvhat we considered we could justly object to in the terms
contained in that instrument other than those mentioned in your letter of 5th June,
1873, copy of which we enclose herewith, and on which document entirely we made the
several payments required from time to time for account of rent and survey fee up to
1st December, 1874.
2nd. That inasmuch as the application for the lease in the first instance was solely
to save the pasture in our immediate neighbourhood, principally for the spring use of
our cattle, from the encroachments of other parties with sheep, &c, we therefore object
to being restricted by the lease to only the ten head per hundred acres, as our collected
bands far exceed that limit. The fact is that the cattle are half the year entirely off the
lands in question and fed on made hay, during which time the pasture lands are perfectly worthless, being covered with snow; the cattle besides remaining seldom on it
during the summer months. By the terms required by the lease, if we should have,
even for only the few months in Spring, one head beyond the number specified, we
should be liable to lose the whole lease, besides, should we not have control of pasture
we pay for, at all events for the few spring months most particularly required, to more
than ten head per hundred acres, which in this case is altogether too small, and entirely
defeats the object of the lease.
3rd. That not having received our lease or any document to that effect defining our
rights to said pasture, since 1st June, 1873, up to date of lease, and the consequent
loss to us, by no fault of ours, during that period by teamsters, packers, and others
forcibly trespassing on our pasture, besides a considerable portion of our pre-emption
lands being included within the red lines, and of which Mr. Hunter was duly warned by
Mr. McKinlay at the time of survey, but of which apparently he has not taken notice on
his sketch map, we consider that we have not only been unprotected in our rights for
that period, but that we have not received due benefit for our money. We were driven
to the expense of leasing the said lands by parties who are now with many others
enjoying all the benefits of free pasture for their animals on Government lands.
We have concluded to submit these circumstances to you, to be taken into consideration in regard to rent and the limit allowed to pasture on the lands leased, well
assured that your decision will be in accordance with reason and justice.
We have, &c,
P. Gannon,
(Signed) Archibald McKinlay,
William Manson. 760 Correspondence—McKinlay and others. 1876
Messrs. P. Gannon, Archibald McKinlay, and William Manson to the Chief
Commissioner of Lands and Works.
Lac La Hache,
18th December, 1874.
Sir,—We the undersigned addressed your honour on the 12th September last, without as yet receiving any reply regarding the parcel of land leased by us for pasture for
our animals, and for which we had to pay rent over a year before receiving any document to protect our rights to the same, and stating the grievances resulting to us
thereby.
We do not by any means wish to trespass further on your valuable time than
simply to call your attention to the facts that have tended so materially to affect what
we considered to be our just rights during that period, and to suggest that the same
should have due weight now, or when the next call for rent is made. Will you, therefore,
please inform us whether you received that letter or not, and what you may be pleased
to do for us under the circumstances.
Anxiously waiting your reply, We have, &c,
P. Gannon,
(Signed) Archibald McKinlay,
William Manson.
The Chief Commissioner of Jjands and Works to Messrs. P. Gannon,
Archibald McKinlay, and William Manson.
Lands and Works Department,
Victoria, 26th January, 1875.
Gentlemen,—I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of 12th
September, 1874, in reference to your pastoral lease, and also your letter of 18th December, 1874, calling my attention to the former letter, and in reply must first apologize for
not answering your letter earlier, but my time being almost wholly occupied by other
matters of public affairs, and as some of the circumstances were in a manner beyond my.
control, and others of such a character that they cannot bo immediately decided must in
some measure excuse me for not having answered earlier. I must remind you, however,
that upon application to this office you were protected in the pastoral right to this land
in the summer of 1873, previous to the survey being made.
If cattle owned by other parties trespass on land contained in your lease you have
your legal remedy. The lease issued to you is in accordance with the usual form of
pastoral leases, for which I am not responsible, and it was presumable that you were
aware of its provisions when making application.
The fact as stated by you of land pre-empted in your names, being contained in the
lease was totally unknown to mc, and could only have been j>ositively ascertained by
survey of the pre-emptions.
And I consider should it be subsequently proved upon survey, that your preemptions were in land so leased, and that you had occupied and improved such
pre-emptions in accordance with the "Land Ordinance, 1870," from the date of record,
that you could justly claim a refund of rent, I have, &c,
(Signed) Eobert Beaven'.
Messrs. P. Gannon, Archibald McKinlay, and William Manson to the
Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works.
Lac La Hache,
14th February, 1875.
Sir,—We have the honour to acknowledge receipt of your favour of 26th January,
replying to ours of the 12th September and 18th December last, in reference to our
pastoral lease, in which, after stating your reasons for not answering us sooner, you
proceed to state in detail your readies to our several complaints. From the general tenor
of your letter, and with every desire on our part to treat the same with all due deference and respect, we regret exceedingly to perceive that the difficulties mentioned by
us, and of which we had every reason to complain, have not been met in that libera.1
manner we had anticipated. 39 Vic. Correspondence—McKinlay and others. 761
1st. Your honour reminds us " that we were on application to your office, protected
" in the pastoral right of the land, Summer 1873, previous to the survey being made."
Beyond the single circumstance (among many cases of trespass we could mention) of the
sheep being ordered off, we are really not aware of receiving any protection whatever
during that period from the Lands and Works Office, nor till the 16th July, 1874, over
one year after rent being collected, did we receive any document whatever for the
pasture in question; neither was it furnished then, without a letter of remonstrance from
us on the subject. Whereas any authority whatever for the time being, from 1st June,
1873 to 16th July, 1874, from your office defining our rights to said pasture, pending the
preparation of the regular lease, would have amply sufficed to keep all intruders off
during the whole course of that summer and fall, and thus have avoided all cause for
complaint on that score. We certainly paid for it and had every right to expect it. It is
therefore hardly fair to charge us ono year's rent for pasture that is freely open to all
excepting sheep.
2nd. You state that if cattle owned by other parties trespass on land contained in
our lease that we have our legal remedy; certainly, that is precisely our case, after receiving from your office the authority or lease defining our rights and boundaries; not
receiving, however, any such document we were powerless, and the result was the
serious grievances complained of by us as occurring during the first year, amounting to
the fact that all teamsters/packers, and travellers, who chose to camp on the lands in
question, with their animals, did so with perfect impunity, and the circumstance that
such trespass being in no way attributable to any neglect or fault on our part, we most
assuredly expected should have due weight with your honour when the next call for rent
was made.
3rd. That the lease issued to us is in accordance with the usual form of pastoral
leases, and for which your honour states that you are not responsible, and that it was
presumable that we were aware of its provisions when making application. We beg to
state that, to the extent as mentioned in your esteemed favour of the 5th June, 1873, we
were not only fully prepared for, but consenting to in every respect. The other conditions however, as mentioned subsequently, in the lease were quite unexpected by us,
such for instance as, that in case of any dispute or difference of opinion arising in any
matter or thing connected with the lease or interpretation thereof, etc., the same to be
settled finally and without appeal by the then Commissioner of Lands and Works. We
do not however by any means object to this condition, as it is presumable that any
gentleman occupying that position, would, on a fair representation of any trouble or
difficulty arising, give a fair and equitable decision.
The next condition is more important, as affecting the limit of cattle allowed on the
pasture lands, viz: not less than five and not more than ten head per hundred acres.
This limit is doubtless very appropriate, as also for that part, the rate of rental charged
per acre, as referring to tho Thompson and Bonaparte country etc., for which it was
evidently intended originally, or for pasture in continual occupation. In our case here,
however, it is not only totally inapplicable, as previously mentioned (12th September,
1874) but defeats entirely the object of the lease to us. We would therefore beg that
inasmuch as the Act effecting Crown Lands in British Columbia in regard to Pastoral
leases leaves the Commissioner full discretionary power in the matter, that you may be
pleased to see the justice of altering that limit which is altogether too small for the few
spring months that the pasture is really required, to some other better suited to the circumstances of our case.
Having thus given simply a plain and truthful statement of our grievances, and
that without the slightest attempt at exaggeration, and without any desire to make them
the cause of a needless and perhaps tedious paper controversy, we leave the matter in
your hands well assured, that when fully informed in the particulars, that your
decision will be in accordance with reason and justice. Your remarks as referring to
our pre-emption claims being contained in the lease, etc., are so far satisfactory, at all
events we are willing as far as we are concerned to leave this matter so for the present.
Waiting your reply,
We have, &c,
P, Gannon,
(Signed; Archibald McKinlay,
W "lliam Manson,

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