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REPORT OF THE AGRICULTURAL FAIRS ASSOCIATION, CONTAINING PROCEEDINGS OF ITS FIRST ANNUAL CONVENTION,… British Columbia. Legislative Assembly 1910

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 REPORT
AGRICULTURAL   FAIRS   ASSOCIATION,
CONTAINING PROCEEDINGS OF ITS
FIRST ANNUAL CONVENTION,
1910.
THE GOVERNMENT OF
THE PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA
PRINTED   BY
AUTHORITY OE THE LEGISLATIVE  ASSEMBLY.
VICTORIA, B.C.:
Printed by Richard Wolfenden, I.S.O., V.D., Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty.
1910.   ^
Department op Agriculture,
Victoria, B. C, July 1st, 1910.
The Hon. W. J. Bowser, K. C,
Minister of Agriculture.
Sir,—I have the honour to submit herewith Report covering the proceedings of the
First Annual Convention of the Provincial Agricultural Fairs Association, held under the
auspices of the Department of Agriculture.
I have the honour to be,
Sir,
Your obedient servant,
WM. E. SCOTT,
Deputy Minister of Agriculture. r
N 4 British Columbia Agricultural Fairs Association 1910
EXPLANATORY.
For some time past it has been the desire of the Department of Agriculture to form a
Provincial   Agricultural   Fairs   Association,   with   the   object   of   organizing  the fairs   into
circuits, according to districts; also to endeavour to  have compiled as uniform prize-lists as
possible among the various associations, and generally to arrange and discuss matters along
educational lines for the furthering  of   interests affecting the agricultural welfare   of   the
country, under the auspices and through the medium of exhibitions and fairs held throughout
the   Province   of   British   Columbia.      With   these   objects   in   view,   the   Department  of
Agriculture invited representatives from all the agricultural societies to attend a convention,
and the results of the meeting, together with report of its deliberations, are embodied in the
following report.
WM. E. SCOTT,
Deputy Minister of Agriculture.
DELEGATES FROM AGRICULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS.
Name of Association. Name of Delegate.
B. C. Agricultural, Victoria    J. E. Smart, Esq.
Chilliwack    J. T. Maynard, Esq.
Coquitlam    James Mars, Esq.
Cowichan Kenneth Duncan, Esq.
Delta A. De R. Taylor, Esq.
Islands  E. Walter, Esq.
Langley J. W. Berry, Esq.
Maple Ridge A. G. Denoon, Esq.
Nanaimo Dr. J. G. Ross.
North and South Saanich Fred Turgoose, Esq.
Okanagan Exhibition     H. P. Wilmot, Esq.
Revelstoke A. Johnson, Esq.
Richmond T. Laing, Esq.
Royal Agricultural Association, New Westminster.. W. H. Keary, Esq.
Surrey     J. Stewart, Esq.
Alberni John Best, Esq.
Kent Charles Wright, Esq.
Kaslo — Robb, Esq.
Nelson J. E. Amiable, Esq.
Summerland J. Thomson, Esq.
Windermere CD. Ellis, Esq.
Vernon R. Gillespie, Esq.
Salmon Arm Robert Turner, Esq.
Kamloops John Redman, Esq.
Kelowna     H. W. Raymur, Esq.
Comox M. B. Ball, Esq.
Mission Wm. T. Abbott, Esq.
Armstrong D. Matheson, Esq. 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 5
PROVINCIAL AGRICULTURAL  FAIRS ASSOCIATION
CONVENTION.
Held in the Botanical Chambers, Department of Agriculture, Victoria, B. C,
January 31st, 1910.
The meeting was called to order at 10 a.m. by Mr. Wm. E. Scott, Deputy Minister of
Agriculture, who stated the intention of the Department of Agriculture was that the meeting
convened should form a Provincial Agricultural Fairs Association.
Mr. Scott: Gentlemen, I think the first business you should consider is the appointing of
a Chairman to preside over this meeting, also a Secretary to the Association; then we have
the meeting started and it rests with you whether we go on or adjourn until 7 o'clock, as,
owing to the Upper Country delegates being delayed by train arrangements, they will not
arrive in Victoria until the evening.
It was moved and seconded that Mr. Hodson be appointed Chairman.    Carried.
Mr. Hodson : I thank you, gentlemen, for electing me Chairman of this meeting. If the
meeting is postponed till this evening, we will have considerable business to get tlirough with,
and I shall have to ask you to make your remarks as brief as possible.
It was moved by Mr. Kenneth Duncan, seconded by Dr. Ross—"That the meeting be
postponed until 7 p.m."    Carried.
The meeting convened at 7 p.m. and was called to order by the Chairman, who then read
the following report:—
Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen,—I am very pleased to see so many of the representatives of various fall fairs in attendance at this meeting. No doubt you are all aware of the
reasons for which this meeting was called, but it might, be well, however, to make further
explanations. For some time past the Department has realised that better results could be
obtained if the various shows could use only experienced, capable men as judges. For several
years previous to 1909 the Department secured the services of three expert judges each fall,
and paid their way and expenses to British Columbia ; but after these men commenced work,
the various shows which employed them each had to bear a proportion of the expenses of the
judges while they were in the Province. While the exhibitions which employed these judges
undoubtedly benefited by their services, still many of the smaller fairs felt unable to stand
the expense entailed in securing the services of these expert men, and were forced, of necessity,
to utilise the service cr services of one or more local judges. The fact is indisputable, that a
local man, no matter how efficient he may be, seldom gives the satisfaction to the exhibitors that
a competent outside judge gives. Where a local man is used as judge, very often the exhibitors
are not satisfied with his decision in placing awards ; such results are not conducive to a
larger entry list the following year. To overcome the above difficulties, last year the Department gave the services of expert judges free of all cost to the fall fairs, and I am pleased to
state that twenty-two fairs took advantage of the offer, and in every case I believe the judges
gave the greatest satisfaction. During 1908, although many of the fairs applied for the
services of the Government judges, the Department was only able to send them to three fairs,
owing to the dates of the shows clashing. Last year, however, better arrangements were
made, and, as I have already stated, the judges officiated at twenty-two exhibitions ; but as
the fairs were not in circuits, the judges, in order to keep the engagements made for them,
had to do a great deal of travelling, thus costing the Department twice the amount that
would have been sufficient had the fairs followed one another in their respective districts. N 6 British Columbia 1910
It is the aim of the Department to form a Provincial Agricultural Fairs Association,
which will hold an annual convention, to which representatives from the various associations
will be invited each year, and to have this organization take up all matters with reference to
the management of agricultural fairs and exhibitions throughout the Province.
In the first instance, it would be well to elect a Superintendent of Fairs, after which it
will be in order to discuss the advisability of forming the fairs into circuits, and many other
points which will be of interest to this meeting.
I might state, in conclusion, that the Department has asked the Government for a larger
appropriation for agricultural associations, and that in the future the grants will be paid
through the Agricultural Department, instead of direct from the Treasury. I wish to point
out, however, that hereafter it will be necessary for each association to forward their financial
statement and membership list to the Department of Agriculture by December 31st each year,
in order that they may receive their annual grant.
The Chairman: Gentlemen, I think it would be in order if you were to elect a Secretary
for the coming year.
It was moved by Mr. Duncan, seconded by Mr. Maynard,—" That Mr. Hodson be
appointed Secretary of the Agricultural Fairs Association."    Carried.
Circuit op Fairs.
The Chairman : I think it would be well to take up the first circuit of fairs, on
Vancouver and the adjoining islands. Starting with Comox, how does this suit you,
Mr. Ball?
Mr. Ball: I am very sorry, but it would not suit us at all. Our district is rather
unfortunately situated, in not having railway communication, and steamboats only touching
our point infrequently; besides that, we have to cater to a mining settlement six miles away,
and we have found that unless we have our show shortly after pay-day, we do not get many
people ; and further, unless we get it so that the boat can carry judges and exhibitors they
cannot come. Very often we try to bring farm produce, but that would be out of the
question. The dates we wish to get are Thursday and Friday, the 22nd and 23rd September.
I do not know of any other date that would suit us.
The Chairman : Why not a week earlier 1
Mr. Ball: That is just before pay-day.
Mr. Scott : I think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Ball advances a very good argument, as to
hold a fair successfully at Comox you must hold it just after pay-day, so that the miners can
attend.
The Chairman : Mr. Best, from Alberni, is here. How does the date we have suggested
for your show suit ?
Mr. Best: Any date would suit us, from the 14th to the 30th; we are quite satisfied.
If you can fix our date anywhere between the 14th and 30th to suit the judges, it would suit
us, and might help Comox.
Dr. Ross : Mr. Chairman, I am well satisfied with the dates you have arranged for us.
In fact, I had been requested to try and secure those dates before I left home, but the 15th,
16th, and 17th would be better, if it makes no difference to you. I may say that we are
situated very much like Comox. We try to arrange our show the week after pay-day. Our
pay-day comes on the 10th; consequently, the dates are satisfactory.
Mr. Duncan : The dates set out here for the holding of the Cowichan Show are not
suitable. It has been our custom to hold our show on Saturday; in fact, never since the
time the Association was organized have we held it on any other day, and the 19th and 20th,
the dates set out for us, are on Monday and Tuesday. Another thing is that we are very
much at the mercy of the C. P. R., and Saturday is the only day in the week throughout the
year that you can be quite certain of a double train; and next September, on the 19th and
20th, on one or both of these dates there may be a double train service or there may not. I
do not know whether it makes any difference to Nanaimo whether they have their show on a
Saturday, but it would suit us very much better to have their dates, the 16th and 17th, or
perhaps the 23rd and 24th, the Saanich dates, as we have always had our show on the Friday
and Saturday immediately before the Victoria Show, and according to the circuit, that would
be the 23rd and 24th. -
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Mr. Scott: Gentlemen, Mr. McBride, our Premier, has very kindly consented to come
this evening to address you. I think Mr. McBride perhaps knows why this meeting is called,
to form an Agricultural Fairs Association. The object is to get all the fairs in the country
into line; to arrange a system of dates so that one will succeed the other, in order that the
judges can follow up the shows in line. There are other matters in connection with fair
circuits which we are going to thrash out, and which will come up by-and-by. Our Premier
comes to us fresh from a very great triumph, such as, I am sure, not many men experience.
The electors of British Columbia have shown, with no uncertain voice, their confidence in
and affection for our Premier. Mr. McBride has come this evening, at personal inconvenience, to speak to you, and I thank him, on behalf of all present, for the privilege of his
company.
Address by the Hon. the Premier.
The Hon. the Premier then addressed the meeting as follows :—
Mr. Scott and Gentlemen,—I am very glad indeed to have an opportunity to address
you for a very few minutes, as other engagements which I have arranged for this evening
compel me to withdraw almost forthwith. The proposal of the Deputy Minister and his
Department is to bring about some uniformity in the arrangement and, may I say, to effect a
change in the results to be expected from the holding of agricultural fairs throughout the
Province of British Columbia. In the past we all know the general result of these annual
exhibitions has been most gratifying. There is no one at all familiar with the subject who
can disagree with this statement, that very many and beneficent results have accrued to the
Province generally from the work that has been done on the part of those who have had
most to do, and, in fact, everything to do, with the different agricultural exhibitions, from the
Kootenays to Vancouver Island. Year after year, as appropriations have come before the
Legislature of the Province, it has never hesitated to indorse this splendid work by very
generous appropriations. There has been a general acknowledgment, then, in so far as the
Parliament of British Columbia is concerned, of the great good that has been accomplished.
There has not been a uniform rule existing throughout the country with regard to many of
the fairs, but nevertheless there has been an understanding that, so far as the different managements may be able to control their local or domestic affairs, there shall be no clash in dates,
nor should there be a difference with respect to the general policy observed in conducting
exhibitions of this kind. As I survey the different appropriations the Parliament of British
Columbia has been called upon to indorse from time to time, I am forced to the conclusion
that, so far as the expenditure itself is concerned, down to date, it would amount to quite a
large sum of money; in fact, sufficiently large enough in proportion to make one feel that the
question is very apt to be asked, " What substantial gain is British Columbia securing for
these different grants V In my own limited experience, in visiting and looking over the
different annual exhibitions in the Interior, in the Lower Mainland, and on Vancouver Island,
I do not hesitate to say that very much credit indeed is due the exhibitors for the pains
invariably taken by them to place before the public of the country none but their very best
efforts; whether it was the case of a fruit exhibit or a display of vegetables or cereals, or farm
products, or whether it be the assembling of some well-bred stock, one must give credit to the
public generally of British Columbia, to the farmers of the country especially, for the splendid
effort that it would appear to me to have characterized all exhibitions, to bring to the public
notice nothing but the very best that the country could afford to produce or to have on hand.
Now, as we approach 1910 with a development on record for the last year or so unparalleled
in the history of the Province, and with an anticipation of a development that will go beyond
anything we have experienced, from my conversations with the Minister of Agriculture, there
can be no question but that if you approach the Department of Agriculture at this time for an
expenditure and appropriation larger than any heretofore granted—and so large has become
the estimate of what we may be expected to provide for the agricultural interests that you
look to us to serve, that the Department has felt, as a matter of duty, this to be an opportune
time when some arrangement may be effected that will bring about uniformity in this matter
of annual exhibitions, and will bring about a better and more efficient result all around, as
the final and dominating policy that all of you gentlemen are seeking so anxiously to uphold as
agriculturists in the Province of British Columbia. I understand from the Department that
the main purpose in your gathering here to-night is to see how far co-operation with the Government of the day, through the Department, may lend itself to a settlement of this kind.    I understand that, in the first instance, the very vital and essential question of selecting competent judges to preside over the fairs of the country will have your very earnest consideration.
For my own part, may I say that I am quite of the view that the different institutes receiving
Government aid in the past have invariably tried to bring to British Columbia the best talent
that could be secured, all conditions being considered, and that unquestionably you have not
only had a high standard in your stock-raising and stock-breeding lines, but as well, too, the
fruit of the country, the roots and the cereals that we raise, have all come up to an excellent stage
through the very exacting and critical decisions of these men, some of whom are world-famed.
Now, surely, from the point of view of excellency, apart from economy, if some friendly and
satisfactory means may be devised by which you will be able to secure competent judges to
preside over all your fairs, why there is no one here who can deny that, if nothing else is
accomplished by this Conference, British Columbia shall have profited much in such a happy
consummation. Then, I believe that it is proposed to discuss with you the publicity work
that attaches invariably to the holding of your annual fairs. If you look over the accounts as
audited by different exposition committees, you will find that there is invariably a large item
for advertising and publicity work, sometimes running into hundreds of dollars. This of
necessity must be a drain on your limited resources. If some scheme may be adopted that
will enable economy to be exercised, but will not curtail your publicity work, surely again
there is a reward for your labours well worthy some patience and some perseverance. Then,
too, take the item of the arrangement of your prize-lists. If some plan can be mutually
agreed upon which will make for a more attractive and more representative prize-list, this is
an accomplishment that will tend towards a more effective exhibition. In fact, sir, I might
go on and take up other items pertaining to the successful holding of exhibitions that may
very justifiably occupy your time and attention here this evening, but it would be only an
imposition on your good nature were I to attempt to do so. The main reason, I feel, that the
Department has asked me to be here to-night is, in the first place, that as leader of the Government I might give some indorsation to you at first hand of the policy of the Department
of Agriculture, to grow, so far as it is possible for that branch of the Civil Service to do so,
more closely to the farmers, agriculturists, and the industry of husbandry in the Province of
British Columbia; and, in the next place, that I might have the good fortune, as well as the
privilege, of meeting once more so many of the men of British Columbia who are very closely
allied to and identified with this all-important branch of the country's development and its
wealth. Now, sir, ever since the year 1903, when the present administration came into office,
whether we have been given the credit or not, let me ask you to believe that it has always
been our anxious desire to do all in our means possible to make the Department of Agriculture
a live Department of the Government, not in name only, but in act as well, to make it a
practical and attractive part of the Government.
My late colleague, Captain Tatlow, as you know, accomplished many reforms in this
respect, and was always painstaking in everything he undertook, whether finance or
agriculture. All of you who have ever had anything to do with the Captain must know
that he was not willing to leave anything undone that he or his assistants might do to make
the Department of Agriculture an effective branch of the Government. But, while so much
has been accomplished in the past, I am free to admit to-night that, with the splendid growth
in our land that is evidenced on all sides, there is yet a great deal left for the Department to
accomplish in this Province ; and I want you to feel, Mr. Deputy Minister and gentlemen,
that what little we have been enabled to do in the past may be taken as some index, at any
rate, to what we hope to accomplish in the future. We know that there is a great deal yet
to be done, and with a view to accomplishing what we expect to undertake in the future, we
propose to leave nothing undone to bring the Department in closer touch with the different
associations, so that all these may be upon the high plane deserved. We in British Columbia
make the proud boast that our mines, our timber, and our fisheries are all on the very first
plane; and, too, we hold strong assurance with regard to our educational affairs. Now, sir,
we have no reason to hesitate in making the same claim with regard to our horticulture,
agriculture, and other affairs pertaining to agriculture in this country. We want to see the
farmer in British Columbia the most progressive farmer to be had in Canada, and whether it
be in poultry-raising or any other branch of his calling, as a Government, we should like to
do our duty so that this very commendable end may be attained. There are may things yet
for the agriculturists in British Columbia to do, and that are within their command, in order
to bring up the supply of products generally to the demand in British Columbia.    We know, 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 9
however, from experience, that we have the resources here that, to commence with, will give
agriculturists in the country every means, at any rate, of making an ample supply for the local
demand, and with this part of our domestic policy as a commencement, surely, Mr. Deputy
Minister and gentlemen, we can start from the very first and find a sufficiency of work and
. responsibility to occupy the time and attention of the farmers of the country, as well as the
Department of Agriculture.
I do not wish to detain you at any greater length. I am, however, glad that this
opportunity has been presented when I might say another word or two to you. For the last
six or seven years I have been fortunate enough to meet nearly every gathering under this
roof of the different societies working in conjunction with the Department of Agriculture, and
I am very grateful indeed that this is another occasion when I might be with you. It is quite
true that the Government has been returned with a very large majority, with another
indorsation that their work has been appreciated ; but, sir, I would take this as an instruction
from the public generally that, while we have accomplished a great deal in the past, there still
remains a great deal more to be done, and while things have been expected from the Government
in the past, a great deal more is expected in the future. We shall try to live up to these
expectations; but there is no branch in the service of the country where concentrated effort,
in my opinion, may be looked for in larger measure than would commence at once with the
Department of Agriculture. The Deputy Minister, Mr. Scott, has lately returned from a very
triumphant tour of the Old Country, where the fruit of British Columbia has obtained the
very highest premiums. He has been telling the story of British Columbia, and no doubt he
has led all of those who look to British Columbia to believe that out here we set a high
standard for everything. Well, why shouldn't we 1 We have the land, we have the climate,
and we have the people, and in agriculture, as in everything else in the West, there is nothing
too good for British Columbia ; but what I would say is this, that to your friends you send
away the message that British Columbia is the chosen land, and we are practically making a
contract with the people that out here in the West everything is graded Al, and this makes it
all the more essential for the Department to be an active and efficient Department, but we
need the co operation of the industry generally with the Department along these lines. We
have never looked to the farmers in vain for aid ; when we wanted more taxes, the farmers
did not deny their part, and in any other emergency they have always done their part. I say
now that, with this very encouraging era upon us, we look to the farmers for co-operation, and
we promise that, so far as the Government is able, you will not be disappointed in the work
of this practical and, I hope, efficient Department of our Civil Service. Mr. Scott and
gentlemen, I thank you all for this privilege of saying a few words. I hope and trust
that this meeting, like many others connected with the agricultural industry of the
Province, will be successful in its every endeavour. I may state that the Minister of
Agriculture, who, as you well know, has another Department to look after during the session,
may not be able to attend to-night. I know of other appointments made by him, and it is
just possible that he may not be able to come. However, his Deputy is here, and I am quite
satisfied that you will find in him a man capable and responsible in every respect. I may say
that Mr. Bowser asked me to express his hope that your meeting would result in substantial
benefit to all concerned. Before I withdraw, I would like to thank you again, and to repeat
the intention of the Government to make the Department of Agriculture in every way equal
to the high plane set for its industry in British Columbia.
Discussion   Resumed.
The discussion on dates of fall fairs was resumed, the Chairman asking if the C. P. R'
were to run a double train during the Cowichan Fair time, would it suit the people ?
Mr. Duncan : Well, we could not be assured of their doing that.
The Chairman : I think you could. You always have a large attendance, and while we
do not wish to dictate to any one, still some show must go without a Saturday, as there is only
one in each week.
Mr. Duncan : I should like to ask the Nanaimo delegate if it makes any difference to
them whether they hold their fixture on Saturday or not 1
Dr. Ross: Yes, it does, We have always held our show during the latter part of the
week. N 10 British Columbia 1910
Mr. Duncan : Well, our dates come after yours, so it would not make any difference as
regards pay-day. Yours are the 16th and 17th and ours the 19th and 20th, so that it would
not make any difference that way.
Dr. Ross : My instructions were to be sure and secure a week-end, and the dates I have
been directed to try to secure are the dates on this circuit, so that I would like to stick to.
the dates so arranged.
Mr. Duncan : Well, I am afraid the dates here will not be acceptable to us. Those
which would suit us best would be the 23rd and 24th.
The Chairman: Would North and South Saanich be willing to give up those dates ?
Mr. Turgoose : Well, being a suburban Association, we would depend on the Saturday
afternoon train for our crowd, as Saturday is generally a half-holiday, and we have always
tried not to clash with Duncan. Of course, we often have—and I think a year or two ago we
gave way to you—held ours on the Wednesday and Thursday, but we did not get the crowd.
Last fall we held our fair quite late, the 1st and 2nd of October. We had a very successful
fair, financially and otherwise, and I was instructed by the Board of Directors to try and
secure dates somewhere between the 1st and 15th of October. We do not believe in summer
fairs out our way. We wish to have a fair when we can show the fruit, grain, etc., at their
best, and also have the farmers attend. If we have it earlier, we find the farmers are all busy
and they refuse to stop and attend the fair; consequently, we do not get the attendance and
the exhibits. Also, the fruit is not properly coloured, and the early fair does not do us justice.
It is the same with roots. We like to get them as large as possible, and give them every
opportunity; and, again, we do not like the idea of having our fair after the Victoria one,
bejause the people of our district come and help Victoria out. Victoria helps us a good deal,
and we would like to have ours first and bring the better part of the exhibits along to the
Victoria Fair, but by having our fair a week or two later we could not do that.
The Chairman : Then you wish to keep these same dates ?
Mr. Turgoose : According to the way Victoria is situated, those dates would suit us better
than any others. The directors instructed me on Saturday evening to apply for dates between
the 1st and 15th, if possible, but of course we did not think of the Victoria dates.
The Chairman : Would you be willing to come after Victoria and New Westminster 1
Mr. Turgoose : Well, I think the best fairs come last, and we consider ours one of the
best; only, coming after New Westminster, we cannot get the farmers to bring in their ripest
fruits, etc., to Victoria, as they would want them at their best for their own fair.
The Chairman : What do you say to letting Cowichan have your dates and going after
the Westminster Fair ?
Mr. Turgoose : Yes, we would not mind that.
The Chairman : Then we can put you on the first Saturday after the New Westminster
Fair.
Mr. Turgoose : I consider it folly on the part of Victoria-and New Westminster to hold
over their fairs until the others are all finished. I think that this is a great mistake, and is
the reason they are not more successful. They should not depend on the horse-racing, etc.,
to draw the crowds.
The Chairman : Mr. Duncan, I will change your dates to the 23rd and 24th September.
Mr. Duncan: On behalf of the Cowichan Association, I wish to thank Mr. Turgoose for
the generous action he has taken.
Mr. Walter : We would like to have the Islands Show on a Wednesday or a Saturday, on
account of the steamer.    Could we have the 21st September?
The Chairman : Yes, I think we could give you the 21st. Mr. Ball, I would like to call
on you again.    Yours is the only fair on this circuit which is out of order.
Mr. Ball: Well, you heard what I said.
The Chairman : I know; but if you wish to get our judges, you will have to consider the
other fairs as well as your own. You know some of the fairs will have to give way, but perhaps
next year your dates would be right and the others will have to fall in line.
Mr. Ball: There is one thing I did not mention before. We are 120 miles north of here,
and if Saanich is not ready before October, how can we be ready by the middle of September ?
The judges said last year that the dates were far too early. Of course, we do not wish to
clash, but as far as I can see (and I have been the Secretary for three years), financially and
otherwise, it would pay us better to foot our own expenses in every way than to take those
dates.    They would practically spoil our show. 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 11
The Chairman : Suppose we take this matter up afterwards, and go on with the next
list.    Mr. Maynard, how do the Chilliwack dates suit you ?
Mr. Maynard : I would say that they are all right. I see that you have not Vancouver
on the list.    We understood that Vancouver was to have a show this year.
The Chairman : I might state that the manager explained to me that they would hold
their show in the middle of summer. However, Mr. Smith, who is here to-night, says they
intend holding a fair and a stock-show as well. These dates are satisfactory to you, are
they?
Mr. Maynard : The reason I asked was that if our farmers exhibited in Vancouver they
would not wish to leave Chilliwack and then go back home again before our own fair, so we
concluded to have ours before the Vancouver one. Therefore, our dates are not fixed at all,
but these dates will suit if there is no fair before us.
The Chairman : How does the date for Kent suit you, Mr. Wright?
Mr. Wright : It suits very well, only I would like it one day ahead, if Chilliwack could
be advanced one day.    There is no other objection.
The Chairman: How would the 16th and 17th do—the 16th to prepare and the 17th
to hold the show 1
Mr. Wright : Very well.
Mr. Mars : I see you have given Coquitlam the 19th, which is Monday—a rather poor
day for an exhibition, I think.
The Chairman :  We can put it on the 20th.
Mr. Mars : That will be all right.
Mr. Taylor : Well, I am afraid the Delta will be like the rest. We require a Saturday
like the others, as our show is a stock-show, and Saturday is about the only day the C. P. R.
will send a boat up to collect the stock. Our stockmen always go on to Victoria and New
Westminster. They will take their stock from Ladner on to Victoria, and then to New
Westminster. If the dates for the New Westminster show are kept the same as here, we
should like the 23rd and 24th, if possible.
The Chairman : Would Richmond be willing to change with Ladner ?
Mr. Laing : I think that some time between the 20th and the end of the month of
October would suit Richmond best.
The Chairman : Now, suppose you change with Ladner, and let them have your dates,
would that suit ?
Mr. Laing : That is a little earlier than the Association would care to have ; a little
later than the 24th would be better than before that date.
The Chairman : I can give you any time between the 24th and the end of October.
Mr. Laing : We want our show before New Westminster. We would very much prefer
to have about the 27th and 28th than the 24th ; the 21st would be too early. We generally
have a district exhibit to prepare for the New Westminster Fair, and we would like to have
our fair about six days before New Westminster, so that we can select the best of our produce
to send with our district exhibit. If you give us the 21st, that will put us eleven days before
Westminster, which is rather a long time to keep vegetables, so that about four days before
New Westminster Exhibition would be about the best time for us.
The Chairman : The judges who officiate at these fairs will officiate at the Victoria Fair
as well, so those dates would clash with Victoria.
Mr. Laing : Since you have set the 24th for us, I would very much rather have that date
than the 21st.
The Chairman : If it would be possible to get another judge, or if you would be satisfied
with a local man, we might give you the dates you wish.
Mr. Laing : Thank you; I am more in favour of local men than of eastern judges, and
I am sure we have just as good local judges as those from the East; so we would be very
glad to have a good local man if you have one to send.
The Chairman : Then what date would you take if we could supply you with a good local
judge ?
Mr. Laing : I have already set our dates.
Mr. Taylor: That would suit us, if we could have the 23rd and 24th.
The Chairman : Then we will go on to the third circuit. Are the dates set for Kaslo
satisfactory ? N 12 British Columbia 1910
Mr. Robb : Mr. Chairman, I would like to have Kaslo changed from the third circuit to
the bottom of the fifth circuit, to come in right after Cranbrook, as it is the next place to
Cranbrook. My reason is that we do not want a fair in September this year. It is too early
for apples altogether; consequently, about the 20th and 21st October would suit us better.
I do not know yet whether we will hold two days or one, but that will not interfere with
any one else.
Mr. Matheson : The date set for Armstrong hardly suits us; it is a little too early.
Armstrong is about two weeks later than Kelowna and Vernon, so that if Armstrong came
after the other two places it would be all right.
The Chairman : Will the delegates from Salmon Arm and Kelowna be willing to reverse
the order of their fairs ?
Mr. Turner : I think, so far as Salmon Arm is concerned, we are probably a little later
than Armstrong, if anything, so that if the judges come from Armstrong to Salmon Arm it
would be satisfactory to us. Our show is principally a fruit-show, and anywhere from the
24th to the 30th would suit us. We might object to a Saturday, but I think the dates are
fairly satisfactory.
The Chairman: Will the representatives from Kelowna and Vernon be willing to change
with Armstrong ?
Mr. Gillespie; We fixed our dates at Vernon for the 16th, 17th, and 18th. I see you
have here from the 15th to the 17th. That is about the date we want for our show if we
can have it.
Mr. Raymur : Mr. Chairman, the 20th and 21st suit Kelowna first-rate. This is only a
day or two earlier than usual, and those dates will be perfectly satisfactory.
Mr. Matheson : For my part, it is no use having a fair unless our fruit, etc., is at its
best, and we never have had a fair earlier than the 23rd and 24th. We intend coming to
New Westminster if we possibly can.
The Chairman : You must remember that Victoria comes on then. We respect New
Westminster, but we must give deference to Victoria as well.
Mr. Matheson : Of course, we must hold our fair pretty near our own dates, when things
are the best, and when things will come out best financially.
The Chairman: Well, are you willing to accept the best local judges we can put on ?
You know you must not clash with the dates of the other shows.
Mr. Matheson: I do not see why we should go so far from our own dates.
The Chairman : We must have the judges follow in circuits.
Mr. Matheson : If the judges worked back from Salmon Arm, I think it would be reasonable enough. I think it is hardly fair to put us a week ahead of Kelowna, when our season is
at least two weeks later than theirs.
The Chairman : Mr. Raymur, would you be willing to change the Kelowna date to that
of Armstrong ?
Mr. Raymur : I make the suggestion that Armstrong take the 22nd and 23rd.
Mr. Matheson : We would be willing to take those dates if we could get them.
The Chairman :  Very well, we will give you the 22nd and 23rd.
Mr. Turner : Does that conflict with the Salmon Arm date ?
The Chairman : Well, the last day of their judging would be your preparation day. Do
you get exhibits from Armstrong 1
Mr. Turner : Sometimes we do, from Enderby and Armstrong.
The Chairman : Would it clash to any extent with your dates having their finishing day
on your preparation day ?
Mr. Turner : I think it would, for this reason, that we show in Armstrong, and we could
not very well be exhibiting in Armstrong and preparing for our own exhibition on the same
day. But if Monday and Tuesday, the 26th and 27th, do not conflict with any one, they would
suit us.
The Chairman : That conflicts with the Victoria Show day.
Mr. Turner: I do not think the Victoria Exhibition would have any influence with
Salmon Arm.    You could not get the judges from one place to another in the time, anyway.
The Chairman : You see, the judges come from these circuits to the Victoria Fair, and
that begins on the 27th. So the best we can do will be to put Armstrong on the 22nd and
23rd, and Salmon Arm on the 23rd and 24th.
Mr. Turner : What time would the judges get to Salmon Arm ? i V:- >:."cc,^?<
ci,c-^
'■^
s
0
H
2
K 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 13
The Chairman : What time could they get there?
Mr. Turner: I would prefer that they get there on the night of the 23rd, to start on the
morning of the 24th.
The Chairman : I think they could easily do that, so that we will guarantee the judges
if you will accept those dates.
(Fourth Circuit.)
Mr. Denoon : We would like the Maple Ridge Show as near as possible to the 15th; you
have here the 10th.
The Chairman : What about Surrey ?
Mr. Stewart: Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my instructions are to have our fair just
before the New Westminster Fair. We wish to get up a district exhibit, as we have had one
every year, and intend to do the same this year. Tuesday or Wednesday would suit, but we
do not wish to interfere with Langley.
The Chairman : If necessary,' we will make another circuit. We do not want to give you
dates that will not be acceptable to your people, and I will ask the representative from Maple
Ridge what dates he has chosen, also the Lanlgey and Surrey delegates.
Mr. Berry : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I wish to speak to the question. Our directors
were greatly pleased at the request to come down here to this Convention. We thought it a
very nice move on the part of the Agricultural Department, and are quite thankful to them.
I came here not bound down to any particular date or to any hard-and-fast rule. However,
when I saw this list which we were told this morning was merely a suggestion and not supposed
to be binding in any way, and when I saw Maple Ridge, Surrey, and Langley put down for
the 10th, 12th, and 14th October, after the two big shows, it took my breath away, and my
good old friend from Surrey has hardly recovered yet. Mr. Stewart represents the district
which took premier honours at New Westminster year after year, and I represent the district
which took the shield at the Dominion Fair, and I think that Mr. Stewart and myself should
be listened to, and allowed a certain amount of respect. We, as you know, make a district
exhibit at New Westminster every year, and the people who got up the exhibit last year, and
who are willing to get it up again for Surrey, met the directors and said that unless the
meeting was held during the week preceding the New Westminster Fair they would not take the
work up again, and our man said the same. Now, that is one of the things we have to consider
in choosing the judges. Our show would come on the Wednesday just before the Westminster
Fair, Surrey the Tuesday, and Mission somewhere about the Thursday, if I am not mistaken ;
Coquitlam, Friday or Saturday—something like that. Now, Mr. Laing, representing Eburne,
told us that he would like the 27th and 28th ; Mr. Taylor, representing Ladner, said that he
would like the Friday and Saturday before New Westminster. Now, Mr. Chairman, this
spelled one thing to us, that was that Victoria was the fair that had to be moved, and that it
should drop in after New Westminster. I just want to point this out, and I wish to point out
that it would be to Victoria's advantage. I believe that, if Victoria made it worth while, most
of us would try to keep our exhibits together and show them there. I am very sorry to see
that the New Westminster Fair representative is not here to-day. Now, there is a struggle
on hand between the large fairs which should set us all thinking, and for that reason, if for no
other, the New Westminster men should have been here. However, the point I make is this :
in Mr. Taylor's case, who represents the Delta, if they had their Ladner Show on the Thursday
and Friday before the Westminster Fair, their stock would be ready for that show, then for
New Westminster ; and if they could keep them in trim, they might go on to Victoria. If
Victoria made it worth while, we would be willing to come on here and give our help in the
district exhibit line. I think, gentlemen, that you will forgive Mr. Stewart and myself if we
show a little indignation at finding ourselves put after the big fairs.
The Chairman : In looking over the fairs of a year ago, I tried to pick out the exhibitions
held during October, and tried in each case to give each show as near their own dates last
year as possible. In some cases I failed, as it is no easy matter to suit each one. But in this
case I think that we could make some arrangement whereby the second and fourth circuits
could be divided. Now, if it is necessary, we would be very pleased to change these around ;
as I said this morning, these dates are only suggestions. If we could change them so that
they will meet the requirements of each exhibition, we could give four circuits in place of
three. N 14 British Columbia    >•• 1910
Mr. Maynard : Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I agree with the last speaker.
We find it is the best way to go from Chilliwack to Westminster, and then on to Victoria.
We do not have to move our stock so far at a time, if we go first to New Westminster.
There were a great many people from Chilliwack who should have been in Victoria last year,
but who could not on this account. We want to fall in with the circuit, but it is the desire
of every stock-breeder in Chilliwack that these arrangements should be made.
The Chairman : Mr. Maynard, I think the point is very well taken ; but in setting these
dates for Victoria, they are the dates given me by Mr. Smart, Secretary of the Exhibition.
I believe that the Victoria Exhibition Association is going to hold a meeting on Wednesday
night, and I will call on Dr. Tolmie, as a representative of the Association, for a word in this
matter.
Dr. Tolmie : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am pot a delegate from the Victoria Exhibition. I simply came to-night to hear the views of the other delegates for the purpose of
getting ideas on the management of exhibitions. I have been very much interested in what
the last two speakers have said. As one who has exhibited at these fairs, I can readily see
the force of their argument, especially that of making the trip to Victoria in two stages instead
of sending their stock right through. However, the principal objection we would have in
Victoria to changing the dates is that the weather becomes very uncertain about that time.
Now, I would not like to say anything definite regarding the changing of those dates, but if you
could let the matter lie over for a day or two, so that I could discuss it with the other directors, perhaps we could make the change.
Mr. Turgoose : If Victoria falls in after New Westminster, I think it would be advisable
to set our dates just before the Victoria Fair if possible. I would also like to show these
other exhibitors that we have exhibits in Victoria too.
The Chairman : Now, gentlemen, can we make two circuits by putting the fourth and the
second together and make two that will be acceptable to every one?
Mr. Abbott: Why not work from Chilliwack, Agassiz, Mission, and Maple Ridge down
to Coquitlam ?
Mr. Wright: Would it not be better to start at Agassiz ?
The Chairman : That would leave Ladner, Eburne, Surrey, and Langley on the other
side of the Fraser.    In what order would they come ?
Mr. Berry : Surrey, Tuesday, 27th ; Langley, Wednesday, 28th ; Eburne, Thursday and
Friday, 29th and 30th ; Ladner, Friday and Saturday, the 30th and 31st. This would be one
circuit, provided Victoria changed their date till after New Westminster.
Mr. Taylor : If the stock goes to New Westminster first, I can assure you that we will
take it right on to Victoria. Victoria need not be afraid that if they go to New Westminster
first they will not come on, as they would rather do it this way.
Mr. Laing : I would like to say that the district exhibit from Richmond would also come
to Victoria if the date were changed. I would also like to state that, being a director of the
New Westminster Association, I know there was a delegate appointed to attend this meeting,
and feel very grieved that he is not here to-night.
The Chairman : I have drafted another circuit for Chilliwack, Agassiz, Maple Ridge,
and Coquitlam, as follows: Chilliwack, 14th and 15th; Agassiz, 16th and 17th; Mission,
20th ; Maple Ridge, 21st and 22nd ; Coquitlam, 23rd and 24th. Mr. Maynard, will this suit
you ?
Mr. Maynard : Yes, perfectly ; only it would perhaps be better if it were changed the
other way round, to give us a chance to go to Agassiz and work up, in case we wish to exhibit
some of our stock at Agassiz.    I think it would also be better for Agassiz if they were reversed.
The Chairman : That would bring yours on Friday and Saturday.
Mr. Maynard : Well, we could not do that very well, because we would have to come
down on Saturday. We do not want a week before New Westminster. We would rather
come from our show to New Westminster, because after the stock is gathered from all over
the valley, we do not like to go right back home again first.
The Chairman: Gentlemen, suppose we put these shows say a week later, counting on
Victoria changing their dates. That will bring you to New Westminster, then right on to
Victoria.
Mr. Maynard : Would it make any difference if the judges started from Chilliwack and
then worked down ?
The Chairman : It would just mean from Chilliwack to the coast extra. 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 15
Mr. Maynard : I think the Chilliwack Society would be willing to defray the extra fare.
It would be far better for them than to take their stock back.
The Chairman : Would the representatives of the other shows be willing to reverse the
order then ?    Would Coquitlam prefer the 16th and 17th to the 23rd and 24th ?
Mr. Mars : Friday and Saturday are bad days for Coquitlam. Wednesday or Thursday
would be better. Friday is market day in New Westminster, and a lot of Westminster people
come to our fair, so it would be a bad day for them.
The Chairman :  How would you suggest arranging this circuit ?
Mr. Mars: Well, in the first circuit, you arranged to give us the 20th ; that was all right.
The Chairman : Suppose we start on the 20th, then, at Coquitlam ; Maple Ridge, 21st
and 22nd ; Mission, 23rd ; Agassiz, 26th and 27th.
Mr. Wright: No, Agassiz would not care for the 26th and 27th.
The Chairman : You take one day to prepare ; that will be on Monday, and you could
have Tuesday for exhibiting.
Mr. Wright: But you cannot gather the exhibits on Sunday, and if we gather them on
Saturday, they do not look as well. We would rather have Tuesday and Wednesday, or any
other day.
The Chairman : Will the 27th and 28th bo acceptable ?
Mr. Wright: Yes.
The Chairman : Will Thursday and Friday, the 29th and 30th, be suitable for Chilliwack 1
Mr. Maynard : Yes, I think we could do with that.
(Fifth Circuit.)
The Chairman : Is the date set for Kamloops all right ?
Mr. Redman : I would suggest that you place Kamloops in Circuit 3, and take Kaslo
from No. 3 and put it in No. 5. Last year we had our exhibition on the 6th, 7th, and Sth
October. That is the latest we have ever had it, and it was entirely too late for us. We
wish the last week in September, so that we can take in the New Westminster Exhibition.
We wish to hold ours the week previous to theirs, and unless we have it that way we cannot
fall in line, and the directors will not bind themselves unless they can send a district exhibit
to New Westminster. The year before last we had the 23rd, 24th, and 25th September, and
that was satisfactory ; but any time the week previous to New Westminster will be satisfactory
to us.
The Chairman: .Well, if Victoria changes, would you be willing to come in after Salmon
Arm?
Mr. Redman : Yes.
The Chairman :  Well, that would be the 26th and 27th.
Mr. Redman : No; Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, the week previous to New
Westminster Exhibition, are the only days we can take.
The Chairman: Is this satisfactory to all concerned : Armstrong, 22nd and 23rd ;
Vernon, 15th and 17th ; Kelowna, 20th and 21st; Salmon Arm, 23rd and 24th ; Kamloops,
28th,  29th, and 30th?
Mr. Annable : It is certainly not satisfactory to Nelson. The date of the Spokane Fair
affects our Nelson Fair, and that is set for the 3rd to the 9th October, and it is necessary for
us to have our fair the week previous to that, for the reason that we have arranged with the
Spokane Fair people for the same attractions. As they are booked for two weeks, we have
to have them the week previous. We have no objections to the arrangement made if it does
not clash with our dates. With reference to the judging for Nelson Fair, if we clash, as we
do, with the Victoria Fair, provided it is not moved, and with the Kamloops Fair if it does,
then we can dispense with the judge of live-stock and let the others have them, provided we
can have a judge for fruit and poultry ; but it would be necessary for us to have the 28th,
29th, and 30t,h September. If these are not agreeable, there does not seem to be anything
left.
(Cranbrook): I do not think there is a delegate present from Cranbrook, but I would
say I think we could not do with any date later than the latter part of September, because in
our district it gets very cold about the beginning of October. N 16 British Columbia 1910
The Chairman : How would Monday and Tuesday, the 26th and 27th of September, do
for Cranbrook ?
(Cranbrook): No, that would not do. The people will not work on Sunday, and in order
to get the stock in in time, they must have a day before the show to do it. Friday and
Saturday, the 23rd and 24th, would be satisfactory.
The Chairman : How about Kaslo?
Mr. Robb: Kaslo will be well satisfied with the 20th and 21st October ; we do not want
an early date. I thought we would come in right after Cranbrook, but Cranbrook is too
early for us.    We want no stock judges, just one for fruit and poultry.
The Chairman : That would be all right, then. I think we have everything satisfactorily
arranged now, in some instances with the proviso that Victoria change their date until after
New Westminster ; and in case Victoria declines to change, I do not see just how you can
make arrangements, unless you leave the Department to make the dates as nearly as possible
to those of last year.
Mr. Redman : If I might be allowed to say a few words. We want three days before
the New Westminster Fair, because we have always had it, and now Victoria arbitrarily puts
theirs down for that time. If Victoria thinks it can run a fair alone, we will have to let
them run it, although we would be glad to help them. I want to say this for the benefit of
the Victoria people present. They certainly cannot expect the support of outsiders if they
do not consider them.
The Chairman : I think that probably Dr. Tolmie may have something to say, being a
director of the Victoria Association. He informed you before that the dates were not set
arbitrarily, but on account of climatic conditions, and I think that in considering the climate
Victoria is very wise, because no matter what support an exhibition gets from outsiders, if it
rains there must be a deficit, and Victoria has been doing its best to prevent that happening.
I think that in all probability, after the sentiment expressed here, they may change their
dates, and I will call on Dr. Tolmie to say a few words now.
Dr. Tolmie : Yes, I think it is rather a mistake to say that Victoria has fixed her dates
without considering any other part of British Columbia. Its first exhibition, I might say,
was held about fifty years ago here. The Victoria people have always been anxious to place
their show here so that we would be able to secure the largest number of exhibitors from all
parts of British Columbia. We have tried, as much as possible, not to clash with others.
However, it must be seen by the smaller fairs that one or two wet days will seriously
handicap them. We have consulted New Westminster and found that the week just before
their fair was the most suitable time for ours. We have clashed with others before and were
sorry for it, but we could not put ourselves out altogether. With regard to the present time,
I may say that our directors would be only too glad to change the dates of the Victoria Fair
so as to suit the larger number. On behalf of the Victoria Exhibition, I may say that we
would be glad to do this if it does not mean putting our own show in such a condition that
we cannot make a success of it.
The Chairman : I am very sorry that there is no delegate from New Westminster present.
I had a wire from Mr. Keary this morning, stating that he was unable to attend; Mr. Trapp
was to come down in case this happened, but he has not put in an appearance either. I think
it might be well, if we have any New Westminster people or directors of that Association
present, to have a word re this matter.
Mr. Maynard : There are several directors of the New Westminster Show here. I am
one of them, and have attended almost all the meetings of the Association for the last few
years. I have also attended some at Victoria. We have tried very hard to have New Westminster change its dates, and it seems too bad that New Westminster is not represented here
to-night, but I hardly think it will change. Last year we worked for about two hours trying
to get them not to clash with Seattle, but they seemed to have fixed on the first week in October.
Although we would like to see it as I have expressed, we would not ask Victoria to have her
show later and spoil it, and I must say we would rather have our show a week out than have
Victoria's race-track spoiled, as one of its chief attractions is the racing. That was the reason
we placed Victoria before New Westminster, and if we undertook to change the dates it
would mean getting into trouble, I think. However, I understand that Vancouver is going
to have a fall fair, and if I may be allowed to prophesy, New Westminster will have to come I
J Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 17
in with some of the rest or Vancouver will break her show ; and although we have all very
good feelings towards Westminster, we could not have been used better than we have been
here in Victoria, and we would rather come to Victoria and go back to New Westminster
than make a clash in any shape with any of the fairs. I believe that is the feeling of the
people of Chilliwack. I believe th.at the Victoria Show is going to be a greater success from
this on than it has been, and that the people will form more into line and help her out,
although we know that a great many people would like to come to Victoria with their fruit
exhibits, but cannot do so. I feel sure that it will be a great help to Victoria if its show can
be held after New Westminster, but the trouble then is with the late season and the rain, of
course.
Mr. Smith: Speaking for Vancouver, I regret that the rest of the committee are not
down and will not be before the end of the week. Vancouver does not wish to clash with
any other show and proposes to hold hers earlier than the others. I do not think that the
dates have been fixed definitely yet; the 15th of August next has been named, but I think it
will probably be later. The plan of that show will be somewhat changed from what was
originally intended. There are more live-stock men on the Board than there were last year,
and the other members of the Board principally look after attractions, but they are not going
to make any offers to air-ship men, etc., and will rather give more inducements to live-stock
than to such features of attraction. There were three or four more live-stock men put on the
Board, and they will probably be here before the end of the week. They will be glad to fit
in with the arrangements so far as possible, and I do not think there will be any difficulty in
fixing the Vancouver dates so that they will not clash with the rest of the Province. I would
like this to be brought up again when our people are here. The Vancouver live-stock men
arc nearly all horsemen, but they know that they have to look to other stock-men for success,
and we are making plans at the grounds for first-class stabling, etc., and the stock will be well
taken care of. If I might say a word for the Vancouver Horse-show, I may say that we will
have fifty-five or sixty breeders' classes, supported by men outside the city. There are about
100 classes of riding and driving horses, and about fifty or sixty for breeders, and we expect
to give about $4,000 or $5,000 to them this year. The horse-show dates are from the 19th
April. The plans for the exhibition are not far enough advanced to say very much about
them at present.
The Chairman : I see we have with us Mr. Buckingham, a director of the New Westminster Fair.    We would like a word from him.
Mr. Buckingham : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I do not know that I have anything to
add to what has already been said in connection with this matter. I suppose what the
Chairman wishes me to speak on is the matter of there being no representative from the New
Westminster Board of Directors here to-night. I am sure that it is a grief to me to find no
representative here. The matter was taken up at the last meeting and a delegate was
appointed. Of course, if he is sick, that is a good reason for his not being here; but I certainly
think that some man should have been sent to show the courtesy they should have shown this
gathering here to-night. The matter of the changing of the dates, I think we have already
said, is rather a delicate matter for any of the directors here to-night to say anything about.
That is practically in the hands of the managers, or is settled at the annual meeting; but I
doubt very much whether the directors have the power to change the dates. They are set at
the annual meeting by the members of the Association. I do not think I have anything
further to add, as we are represented here very ably by the Secretary of the Richmond
Agricultural Society. But I am glad that the Department has taken up this work, and that
the Vancouver management has decided to have something more satisfactory in their exhibition
than air-ships or " hot air." I think it goes to show that the metropolis of British Columbia
realises that the backbone of the Province consists of its stock-breeders.
The Secretary then read over the circuits decided upon, as follows :—
First Circuit.
Comox September 22nd and 23rd.
Alberni  n 14th and 15th.
Nanaimo  m 16th and 17th.
Cowichan  n 23rd and 24th.
Islands  n 21st. N 18 British Columbia 1910
Second  Circuit.
Coquitlam September 20th.
Maple Ridge  n 21st and 22nd.
Mission  ii 23rd.
Agassiz ■       .. 27th and 28th.
Chilliwack  n 29th and 30th.
Third Circuit.
Surrey September 27th.
Langley ,  n 28th.
Eburne     n 29th and 30th.
Ladner ....     n 31st and Oct. 1st.
Fourth Circuit.
Vernon September 15th to 17th.
Kelowna  n 20th and 21st.
Armstrong  n 22nd and 23rd.
Salmon Arm  „ 23rd and 24th.
Kamloops  „ 28th, 29th, 30th.
Mr. Taylor : Now the discussion has come up, it puts Ladner in a very peculiar position.
If our show is held then, we will not be able to send any stock to Victoria, so that I would
ask that we might be put back to the 24th. It seems that it is not reasonable that Victoria
be put after New Westminster, and it was only for that reason that I consented to that date.
Now it practically leaves us in a dangerous position, and if we hold our show the stock would
not be able to come to Victoria. If we have the 24th, we could send our stock to Victoria
early and bring it back to New Westminster. I thought, perhaps, Victoria might possibly
cancel the week commencing on the 27th, leaving Vancouver and New Westminster the same
as before. I do not think it would conflict with Hammond and those places, as ours is
practically a stock-show, and they are pretty far away.
Mr. Thompson : I would like a date for Summerland. Although we have no Association,
we had a fair last year, and maybe after Kelowna, or some time about then, would suit us all
right.
The Chairman : Would the 20th be satisfactory ?
Mr. Thompson : Yes, first-rate; we just want one day.
Mr. Raymur : That is one of the Kelowna dates, and we expect a large contribution from
Summerland at our show.
The Chairman : Well, suppose we run Summerland in or about the 23rd, on a Salmon Arm
date. -
Mr. Turner : That would not clash with us.
Mr. Robb: Friday, the 23rd, would be most suitable for us.
The Chairman : Well, on the last circuit we have :—
Nelson   September 28th, 29th, 30th.
Cranbrook  ,, 23rd and 24th.
Kaslo October 20th and 21st.
(Nicola): While it is true we have no Association, yet we would like to hold a fair, and
any date earlier than the others would suit us, as we have no fruits.
The Chairman : You could have Wednesday and Thursday, the 13th and 14th September.
I think that finishes the fair circuits. Is there any other question to come up in connection
with this matter ?
Mr. Ball: There is one question I was instructed to bring up, although I do not know
whether it will be any use. It is the question of getting exhibits to New Westminster Fair.
As none of the directors are here, I made inquiries about the matter. We had quite a
difficulty in getting a district exhibit down there, and I was wondering if there was any
chance of formulating a plan to send a steamer or procure special rates. We are so situated
at Comox that our exhibit has to be handled ten or eleven times. We put it up in small
boxes, and they get broken with the banging around. We were thinking that the different
societies might co-operate and have a steamer sent around for the people on the coast. 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 19
Government Grants.
The Chairman : With reference to the grants which are given by the Government to each
agricultural association, as you know, at the present time you make application to the Treasury
Department for your grants, and year after year many of the shows have received the
same grant. To a few of them the grant has been increased, but hereafter, as I pointed
out in the short paper which I read, these grants will come through our Department, and we
want to come to some fair arrangement with the associations, so that we shall know just what
is coming to each one. I thought it might be satisfactory if we gave a grant according to the
membership of the association, and the amount of prize-money expended by each. I do not
say the amount of money that appears in your prize-lists, but the amount actually expended
in awards. I would like to hear from some of the representatives here with reference to this
matter, as it is most desirable that some uniform rate of payment be given for each association.
 :  Mr. Chairman, with reference to the grants to be given by the Government to
each agricultural association, I think that the Government should give at the rate of dollar
for dollar; that is, on the basis of membership as well as the amount of money spent. This
method has been adopted in Manitoba and, I think, in Ontario, and it is the only fair way of
distributing the money by the Government.
The Chairman : I would like to point out that if the Government gave dollar for dollar,
for every member of the association, as well as for the prize-money, it would be running your
show for you. It is most desirable that some system be adopted whereby fair payment will
be made to each agricultural association, and I think it would be well at this time if these
systems were discussed and some system adopted.
Mr. Turgoose : There was a system adopted here some years ago, whereby if the association got a $2 membership, they got a $4 grant from the Government. We had about sixty or
seventy members, and got four times that for a grant.
Mr. Matheson : I understand that some years ago there was a law discussed before the
session, and I understand that it was the custom to give according to the membership of the
society.
The Chairman : There may be an Act in existence here, but at the present time the
agricultural associations receive their grants through the Treasury Department, and the grants
are made each year. Some of the shows, I believe, have grown to such an extent that alargf r
payment was warranted, while there may be one or two that are getting a little more than
they should be receiving, and I think it would be in order for this meeting to adopt some
uniform method.
 : I would like to ask on what basis are grants made at the present time?
Mr. Scott: I do not think there has been any basis at all by which the Government has
been giving these grants. They gave what they thought the association merited, and the idea
now is to get a certain uniformity throughout the Province. We want you to discuss the best
means for this.    There has been no absolute rule adopted by the Government up till now.
Mr. Ball: I would like to ask if the Chairman could give us his idea as to the proportion
to be paid for a membership of about seventy-five ?
The Chairman : No ; I would not undertake to give you anything like that offhand.
Mr. Scott: The question would need thinking out. It altogether depends upon the grant
we get from the Government for that purpose ; then we would have to work out the number
of members belonging to each association and distribute the grant on an equitable basis.
Mr. Turgoose : How would you get the number of bond fide members ? Some societies
will be having more members than they should have. The farmers' institutes will get up
big entertainments and everybody will pay his 50 cents to go into the entertainment, and
thus become a member of the association.    What we want is real, bond fide members.
Mr. Scott: I think we must trust to the districts that they will not play a game like
that. All the associations will have Secretaries, and you will have to take the list of members
from the Secretary.
Mr. Taylor : Last year the Hon. Capt. Tatlow placed us in this position. We sent a
representative to the Government asking for an increased grant. They increased it $100, and
Captain Tatlow asked what good we were doing with our exhibition. We told him, and said
that last year we sent over 200 entries to New Westminster, and 220 to Victoria. He was
very pleased, and said that if next fall we sent in a request stating that we desired more, for
better stock, etc., the Government would increase our grant still further.    I think that the cN 20 British Columbia 1910
basis, therefore, may be put on the amount of exhibits shown and the prizes taken, and in
that way we will be able to help the country. If our show is going down, the grant would be
decreased, and if it is getting better, the grant would be increased. We have not the attractions that the big shows have, and the gate receipts are not very big. We depend entirely
on the grants and the number of members we have. Those were the conditions held out by the
late Minister of Agriculture, and I think they were very equitable. I understand that the
judge of our horse-show asked for an increased grant for us. I am pleased to say that the
Government gave us last year $100 extra because we did so very well the year before.
Mr. Annable : I think that, in the first place, the Government should have some basis on
which to base the grants—say on the membership or the amount of prize-money, or something
like that. We have a membership of somewhere between 500 and 700 each year, who pay
$2 each, and receive about $250 from the Government. We go about $1,500 in the hole each
year, and have done this for the last three or four years, and are getting tired of it. I have
no suggestions to make with regard to the amount. I know that when I was Secretary of
our fair, some few years ago, it was about $1.50 a member that the Government paid ; I am
not sure, but I think that was it. However, I think that it is up to the Department to lay
some plan before these gentlemen, and have it discussed, because we all have different views,
and without a plan it will be almost impossible to arrive at any decision.
The Chairman : Gentlemen, while it appears to have been the custom of the Department
to pay a certain percentage on your membership, I think that it would be much fairer to
each association if the Department paid according to the membership and prize-money
expended. In a few cases, there are exhibitions or associations with a fairly large membership. Take, for instance, associations in conjunction with farmers' institutes, or they may
have a large membership without being in conjunction with any other association ; still they
may be accomplishing very little good. Again, there are other associations—for instance, the
Delta Association. Their membership is not as large as some of the others, but they are
fortunate in having a lot of good show stock, and the amount of stock that is shown at Delta
is a credit to the district, and without that stock both Victoria and Westminster Shows
would suffer greatly. I think that, taking into consideration these points, it would be fairer
to all concerned if this appropriation were based on the amount of prize-money expended and
the membership to the association.
Mr. Maynard : I should like to see the grant laid out as an actual appropriation. I
would like to see it placed on the actual money paid out in prize-money. I think it could be
done better in that way than any other, and then there could be nothing said about not
being fair. The way you mention, of giving the grants according to the amount of good
done, would be rather difficult, and would cause some people to think that it was not just
right. I cannot think of a fairer way than according to the actual money paid out for
prizes.
Mr. Mars: I think about 50 per cent, of the prize-money would be a very fair proportion,
if the suggestion meets with the approval of the meeting.
Mr. Taylor : There is one thing we are overlooking. We have paid out about $450 on
our buildings and grounds. The grant we receive is really necessary to carry on our shows,
so that if it is actually based on the amount of prize-money given, we will not all get an
equitable proportion. There has to be a certain amount paid out for the grounds, etc., and
I think the grant should be based on the actual amount of money expended, whether on the
prizes, grounds, or exhibition buildings. Still, I would like to see it given on the amount of
entries, and the good done.
Mr. Maynard : That would suit us very well, as we expect to spend about $5,000 this
way.
Mr. Ball: I think the suggestion of spending in proportion to the amount of money paid
out is the best one; 25 per cent, or 50 per cent, of that would be as much as the Government
could be reasonably asked to give. The grounds, buildings, etc., are your own property ; you
can make up the money expended on them by holding sports, etc., there. I think the grant
should be based on the money expended in prizes only.
Mr. Smith : I think that the appropriation may be reasonably set on a percentage of the
amount of money expended in prizes. We have expended about $14,000 on our grounds and
buildings, and if you take that into consideration, our grant would be very high.    Of  course,  1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 21
our grounds are held by a few of us who put in the money, and we own them and are
spending money on them every year. I think the fairest way would be to pay a proportion
of the actual money paid in prizes.
Mr. Redman : I think that the appropriation should be between the prize-lists and the
membership. Members are hard to get sometimes, and it would be quite an inducement to
get new members.
Mr. Duncan : I agree with the last speaker, that the fairest basis would be that of
membership. The success of almost any association is dependent upon the number of
members it has, and if the Government were to make these appropriations in accordance with
the membership, it would be a great inducement to get more members, and by doing this
greater success would be insured.
The Chairman : Suppose that for every dollar taken in as membership to an association
the Government gave an equal amount. At the present time we have an appropriation—or
I expect we will have—of $14,000. This meeting will cost something for the delegates'
expenses, but outside of that, I suppose there will be about $13,500 left. Suppose we give a
dollar for every dollar taken in as membership fee, and divide the rest in proportion to the
amount spent for prizes for each show in the Province. This is just a suggestion, as I do not
know whether we would have enough to go around this way.
Mr. Ball: I would suggest that, instead of giving dollar for dollar, you say a dollar per
member. It might be an advantage to some associations to charge less than a dollar for
membership: they might lose financial^', but they would gain in numbers. I think you
would be doing better work if the membership fee was lessened, and it would make no
difference if the Government gave a dollar per member instead of dollar for dollar.
Mr. Scott: After listening to the various proposals, it seems to me that the fairest way
would be to pay a certain amount according to membership, but I also think the amount
spent in prizes should be considered—a certain amount for each member and a certain
percentage for prize-money. You cover the ground then in both directions, and I think if we
take that as our basis, it would be the best way out of the difficulty.
Mr. Maynard : This is a very good suggestion, but could be abused. If you give so
much for every member, you will have to set the membership fee. Everybody in our valley
would take a ticket if we sold our tickets at 50 cents.
Mr. Scott: Of course, that would have to be guarded against.
Mr. Maynard : Yes, but you would have to fix the membership fee.
Moved by Mr. Ball, seconded by Mr. Turgoose—"That the Government be asked to give
a grant in proportion to the amount of membership fees taken in and the amount of money
actually expended in prizes."
Mr. Ball: We want to be fair and honest. We want to do the fair thing, and should all
go home with that idea; and I believe that the fairest way would be to pay a percentage on
the amount paid by the members and a percentage on the amount of prize-money paid by the
directors.
Mr. Redman: We have big expensive buildings, and we have to give pretty big prizes.
We have doubled our prizes during the last two years, and in order to raise this large amount
of money we pay $2 and $3, and then we go behind. Where would we be if we did the same
as these people who can give a 50-cent ticket ?
Mr. Davie: At Ladner we had sixty members at $1.50 per member. I would like to
draw your attention to the prizes given at Ladner. Last year we gave only $2 for a pure-bred
Clydesdale horse.    I consider that we should pay more to keep up the exhibition there.
The Chairman : I would point out that under these arrangements it would be an encouragement for your association to give more prize-money. If we proportion your grant according
to your prize-money and your membership, it should be an encouragement to every association
to increase both membership and amount of money expended in prizes.
Mr. Paterson : Supposing that all the fairs in the Province raised their prize-money to get
as large a proportion of this $14,000 as possible, if it would not go around, and we could not
meet our prize-money, what would we do?
The Chairman : The way it would be worked would be to take the number of shows and
the amount of money paid out, and take the proportion according to what we have. The
money has to go around.
Dr. Ross : I think that this $14,000 is not sufficient, according to the number of societies
in the Province to-day. N 22 British Columbia 1910
Mr. Scott: I think that, from what the Premier said to-night, we will be quite justified
in asking for more, and I will see Mr. Bowser about it.
Mr. Annable : If this $14,000 includes Victoria and New Westminster, I do not think
it is sufficient. I think the Province is going ahead faster than that, as last year the grant
was $11,000. I think $20,000 would be a small amount for the Government to give for this
work.
Provincial Fairs at Different Places.
: I wish to speak on the desirability of  holding a Provincial  Fair at different
places in the Province, in the same way that the Dominion Fairs are held in different parts of
the Dominion. I think they should be held in every place that has the grounds and is so
centrally located as to be able to hold these fairs. There are four such places—Kamloops,
Nelson, Victoria, and New Westminster—and if there are any others, I should like to see
them come forward.
The Chairman : Mr. Smith, what do you think of this proposition ?
Mr. Smith : I would not care to discuss this matter just now, as I think our association
will make some representation with regard to the matter, and I have no authority to speak.
Mr. Maynard : We have already had a Provincial Fair at Chilliwack, and if it is passed
around we will have it again. I can assure you that Chilliwack will not fall behind. I think
it is a very good idea.
Moved by Mr. Taylor, seconded by Mr. Annable—" That the Government be asked to
give at least $20,000 this year for appropriations to agricultural societies."    Carried.
Difficulties which Judges Encounter.
The Chairman : Gentlemen, there is another matter I would like to bring up this evening"
In sending judges around to the various fall fairs they meet with a great variety of classes, and
on returning to the Department give us reports of various kinds. In some cases a judge will
go to a fair, and an animal will be led out to him that should never be shown. I hardly think
it would be advisable for a judge to put a first prize on an animal that, if it were in a good
competition, would not get a prize at all; and I think that if animals are brought into the
show ring not in proper condition, the judge should award a second or third prize, or turn them
out. I do not think that you are doing the district any good or benefiting the stockmen if
you give him the money just because there is no competition, and I think it would be in order
if this meeting took up the matter and passed some resolution. In sending judges out, I do
not like to ask them to turn the animals out of the ring when there is no competition ; but if
it is brought before the notice of this meeting, and you take some action, the stockmen will
know that they must get their animals in good condition or leave them at home.
Mr. Smith : I think that is probably the most important question of all, and if you are
going to accomplish anything by the organization of this Association, you can do it along those
lines. For instance, if the Government is expected to give $20,000 to the associations, they
are putting themselves very much in the position of assisting schools. Inspectors are
appointed and schools are graded. If every show selected its own judges they would not have
any idea of standard ; but when the Department selects the judges and instructs those judges
as to what scrt of standard they are expected to look for, and if they fail to find the standard,
they fail to place the ribbon. The whole thing is a matter of organization well worked out,
and prize-money should not be awarded where merit is not.
Mr. Maynard : You will find in almost any prize-list that judges are requested not to
award prizes where they are not merited. This shows that each society is in favour of that,
so that you can see that it has been already before the people.
Mr. Annable : I think you will find this in the by-laws of nearly every association.
The Chairman : I have looked over all the prize-lists very carefully and have noticed
this, but have always noticed that when animals were turned out of the ring there was a cry
made, and I think it well that you bring this before the members of your associations and let
them know that in the coming fall fairs they will have to properly prepare their stock for
competition.
Dr. Tolmie : I have judged at many exhibitions in British Columbia, and I would say
that all boards of management should call for registration papers in any of the pure-bred
classes.    In the sheep classes I have often found it difficult to find out just what they were ; I Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 23
and the same in the hog classes. If we are to improve our stock we must call for registration
papers. The grades are in their own class, of course. Then we notice that there is a certain
class of exhibitors who wish to get a little easy prize-money. They notice where the blanks in
the prize-list are, and will run in a lot of grade stuff that is a detriment to the country. It
does a show a great deal of harm, and you should pay attention to keeping that class of stock
out if you wish to have a progressive Association.
Mr. Redman : That would be almost a necessity for a fair having both pure-bred and
grade classes. We feel that we ought to give the prizes for the encouragement of the best
stock we have. If it was such stock as Red Jerseys, etc., they were not classed at all, and
we could not offer prizes for all the different breeds of sheep. Further, all the cattlemen
wish to purchase the best pure-bred stock they can get, but I do not think the}' should be
asked for registration papers. You must make allowance for stock being in range condition.
Though the hair is a little long on range cattle, the animals are first class.
The Chairman: In some of the shows—in fact, at one I judged at last year, there were
one or two cows turned out because they had no registration papers. They were run into the
pure-bred class, but had to be put out. In the case of the Kamloops Fair, our judges are
fair-minded men and can make allowances. Even with range stock, if it is too rough, and if
I were the judge, I would not hesitate for one minute in turning it out, because a man has no
right to bring rough stock to a fair; it makes the fair of no value. I would instruct the
judges to make every allowance for range condition, but they must look for quality. There is
another point, and that is the prize-lists—the arranging of your prize-lists in the various
classes. I have noticed in some of the prize-lists that they were not classified just as they
should have been, and if an expert judge comes along he may turn a whole class out because
it is under the wrong heading. Now, we would be very pleased if you would send down
your prize-lists before printing, and let us run over them for you. We may find paragraphs
or clauses in the wrong places—something that you, perhaps, have not noticed—and we
would be very pleased to do this for you if you care to send them down. We might be able
to help you out somewhat, and when the judge comes along he will be able to judge
your stock without turning any out, and exhibitors will know in what class to exhibit their
stock.    I will ask Mr. Craddock to speak just a few words now on
" Educational Features and Demonstrations."
Mr. Craddock : Mr. Chairman, Mr. Deputy Minister and Gentlemen,—I appreciate
the honour of being asked to speak on what I consider one of the most important phases in
connection with exhibition work. I regret the absence of Mr. Smart and feel I am a poor
substitute to represent the Provincial Exhibition of Victoria.
Education is the fundamental base upon which revolves the progress of affairs in all
branches of civilisation of our modern day. Exhibitions are the most educative masters
to the successful agriculturist, no matter in what channel his interest lies. While attractions
are all very well and act as pleasing varieties, yet I think very few people enter an exhibition
ground without having a special interest either in stock or some other, exhibit. To see
the results of the handiwork of the modern farmer and stock-raiser, truly there is an
object-lesson to be learned, and the mind is awakened and the valves of the brain
opened out even as a chauffeur opens out a 50-horse-power automobile when he desires
to let her go for a good spin. One becomes impressed and carries away clear recollections
of having seen some of the "pick of the basket." No man has succeeded in any business
unless possessed of educational training along the lines pertaining to the calling he is
engaged in, and so even with the farmer and those whose aspirations lie in the wake of
agriculture; they must have a knowledge of what they have to do and how to do it,
whether it be in the raising of an animal or the production of a crop from the soil of
the land upon which he lives. Exhibitions cannot be encouraged too much on the lines
of educational training, and with the increasing numbers of agricultural associations in
British Columbia, naught but the most gratifying results can redound to the farmers of the
Province as well as to the management of all fairs throughout the country. Demonstrations
go hand-in-glove with the doctrine, of education, and one has only to watch the visitor at any
fair and see the interest with which he witnesses the performance of a good horse in the
judging ring, or again in the cow when he can see her usefulness, in attending some of the
butter-making and  other  competitions  provided  to demonstrate her  value.     Also,  in   the N 24 British Columbia 1910
holding of post-mortem examinations can one be permitted to see the strides of modern
science in its endeavour to cope with tubercular disease, so prevalent in the ordinary animal.
Time does not permit me to enumerate other features which, if provided by the management
of an exhibition, enhances it materially, and also lets the visitor, be he an exhibitor or only
there for the sake of pleasure, go away realising that he has seen much of interest and taken
back with him recollections of a day well spent and a lesson well learned.
Let British Columbia go on with such work, and I am sure, with such men as are present
here this evening representing the fairs and exhibitions of the country, no effort will be misplaced by them in their desire to make British Columbia a credit to itself and to its people.
Mr. Duncan was called upon for a few words, and spoke as follows :—
Judges—Outside or  Local ?
Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen,—I am afraid this is a subject on which I am hardly
competent to say anything which would be of great benefit to the meeting. Still, I am pleased
to say that I think it is a very necessary thing to have more uniformity among the catalogues,
that by so doing the people or associations in different parts will thereby be induced to exhibit
far more than they do, as, after all, the catalogues are always printed and distributed among
the members some time before, and the members of the different associations are more or less
guided by what those catalogues contain. If they were more uniform there would probably
be a better feeling among them, and there would be more attempt to show in the different
associations. If you can have all the numerous catalogues uniform, 3'our judges will have a
chance to work along similar lines. If you are going to organize the Province along these
lines, that is the way to begin ; grade your shows, get your catalogues to suit each show, let
your judge know what to expect, and if he does not find it, he does not place the ribbons.
During the last few years I bave had the opportunity of visiting the shows in the East, on
both sides of the line. We have taken our catalogues from all the leading shows we could
find, and our first catalogue now is something we can look back and laugh at, for we have
progressed, and the catalogues are now so arranged that if a man put his horse in a class in
which it did not belong it would soon show. We have been astonished by the success we
have had in weeding out the unnecessary and useless classes. In our first show we were so
mixed we did not know what to do at all. It may be hard on the exhibitor, but when he
understands that something is expected of him he will try to do it.
Mr. Wells : I think that the last speaker has spoken from the judge's standpoint. I also
would like to speak, as an exhibitor. I was hoping that this subject would be brought up, as
I live in Chilliwack, and coming from there to New Westminster and Victoria Fairs, we
found that in bringing down a herd of cattle to this fair first and returning to New Westminster, we would have to have some of them sent home, and others sent down, if we would
fill the classes and do what was required according to the prize-lists. I think that if our
prize-lists were not all uniform, those in a certain circuit of fairs should agree as to number of
classes displayed, as far as possible ; not only in cattle, but in sheep, swine, and everything of
that kind. I think it is important that our prize-lists should agree in this way. This is only
one view of it, of course.
Dr. Tolmie : I do not think we can get any better evidence regarding this matter than
from such men as Mr. Wells, who are breeders. I think that we cannot do better than to act
together in this matter, and have as great a uniformity as possible in our prize-lists. Revertino-
again to what I said a few minutes ago, in preparing these prize-lists, under certain conditions,
you have to suit different localities. I think they should call for registration papers for all
sires. If not, it is not fair to the association that is putting up the money. At one particular
fair there were a number of strangers present, and while the judges understood the conditions
and could give an excuse, it made a very bad impression as to the live-stock of that locality.
With a little bit of preparation and the uniformity of the prize-lists, you will not make any
bad impressions. Then, again, from the breeder's point of view a great many breed their
animals at the proper period, so as to show them at the proper time. One animal in proper
condition for one fair will not be in class for another. If there was a certain uniformity in
this matter it would be quite easy to take them in rotation. I think we cannot do better than
to call on some of the other breeders here and see what they have to say.  1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 25
Mr. Davie was called upon and spoke as follows :—
Mr. President,—I do not know that I can say anything more than what the other
speakers have said. I think that Mr. Wells, from a breeder's standpoint, comes pretty near
the mark. It is pretty hard for a breeder to come to Victoria to enter his stock, and then
when he gets to New Westminster find he has none to enter. With regard to the money,
speaking from the exhibitor's standpoint, there is nothing in it.
The Chairman : I think there is more in it than dollars aud cents. People see the merits
of your stock, whereas you might advertise and spend a great deal of money in the papers
without these results. However, if the associations that have formed into the various circuits
could come to an understanding, whereby the secretaries could correspond and submit their
prize-lists, a uniformity might be established. We cannot deal with this as fully as I would
like at this meeting, as the time is too short, but next year I hope that when the delegates
come down again we may be able to take up this question and give it more time than at this
meeting.
Mr. Matheson : There is one question I would like to take up, and that is with regard to
the judging. Of course, these fairs are an education as well as anything else, and people
coming to them like to know as much about the animals as possible, and why the prizes are
given. They do not know what merits the animal has which gets a prize. Then some think
that an animal deserves a prize when it does not get it, and I think that a little more should
be known about the animal which gets the prize, so that the people could be educated and
know something about all the animals represented. I think this year the judges might be
instructed to give demonstrations with these animals at the fairs.
The Chairman : I might point out that last year judges were instructed to give reasons in
every case when asked and where possible. With only one judge at a show, it is not possible
to give this information in every case ; but when asked I think Government judges will be
always willing and ready to give reasons, and I agree that wherever possible the judge should
give his reasons for the placing of every ribbon.
Mr. Turner : In connection with giving the judges instructions or giving them power to
withhold prizes from exhibitors that do not deserve them. Dr. Tolmie has judged at our fair
and has said to me: "That team should not have a prize, as it is the only team here"; and
" That horse has a spavin ; what will I do ?" I would say : " Well, I do not know." " Well,
what do you think ? " " Well, I suppose you had better give it a prize ; the owner might be
vexed." That has happened at nearly all of our shows, and it is a thing that should not be
done. I think that now is a splendid time to take a decided step to remedy it. We are
formed into circuits, with the Department giving us judges who are outside men, and I am
going to make this motion—"That this meeting go on record as in favour of the judges sent
out by the Department being instructed and empowered to withhold prizes from animals that
are not deserving, at the same time avoiding all unnecessary friction."
Mr. Gillespie : I would say just a few words about this. Take, for example, our own
district. We have come to the conclusion, after studying it for the last four or five years,
that sheep and swine are not making a good stand in our district, so we have cut them out.
Also beef cattle have been cut off. Dairy cattle have made a good stand, also poultry, and
we are prepared to shove them along. The same with apples ; we have cut out Ben Davis,
and are increasing the prize-list for the better varieties of fruit. I think that if every district
throughout this Province made the same study we would have better shows.
Mr. Turner's motion was seconded and carried. .
Dr. Tolmie : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I do not think we can refuse to go by this
prize-list this year. We are having a directors' meeting of the Victoria Agricultural Society
in a few days, and it should be considered there to start with. I was thinking that if there
was a general committee appointed to amend the different lines, who would be responsible to
see that this was carried out at the different meetings of the societies, we would get the
prize-lists rectified this year.
Mr. Maynard : I might say that I am in favour of Mr. Hodson's remarks, that we make
our prize-lists up and send them in to the Department. They could make them more uniform
with less time and less trouble.    It would take a lot off our hands too. N 26 British Columbia 1910
Dr. Tolmie : I should like to say that the prize-lists should be referred to experts in the
Department, and that the expert in each line look over the prize-list in his line. I would like
to move—" That the prize-lists be referred to the Department of Agriculture for suggestions."
Resolution seconded and carried.
Mr. Ball : I would like to suggest that you send last year's prize-list down right away.
Would it be too much to ask the Department to send out some details of what constitutes a
certain grade of animals, give us an idea of the weight, and a general idea of some of the
points ? It would save a lot of trouble, and I do not know very much about it. One difficulty
in Comox is that we could not get judges, and had to take what we could get the day before
the show. In one case an exhibitor exhibited two colts in the light, and the same two in the
heavy classes, and the judges gave them the first and second prizes in both classes. As Secretary, I refused to pay the money, but was forced to pay, as the judges had awarded the prizes.
If the Department would give us some idea as to the weights required in each class it would
help us.
An Apple-show.
Mr. Annable : There is one thing—for the last two years the States of Washington,
Idaho, and Oregon have held an apple-show in Spokane. It was the greatest advertising
medium for our apples. There is no doubt that British Columbia is going into fruit-growing
to such an extent that an exhibition of that kind would be the greatest advertisement for
British Columbia. There are several gentlemen here who have attended the apple-show for
the last two years, and they know the great benefit that they have derived. Since the State
of Washington took the matter up, it has certainly proved to be a great success. The Upper
Country of British Columbia, especially, went into competition at the apple-show at Spokane
and won a great number of prizes. In 1908 we carried away a great proportion of the prizes.
This year we took away 19 per cent, of the money, against all other States. It has been
suggested that Canada should hold an apple-show, as well as the United States, and that the
first year it should start in British Columbia, the Provincial and Dominion Governments being
asked to give assistance. Next year it might be held in Ontario, each Province having it in
turn, and the Province in which the show is held be asked to give aid, also the city. If we
decide to do this, it could be held as an annual event.
Moved by Mr. Annable and seconded—" That this meeting of representatives of the
different agricultural societies of the Province of British Columbia herewith ask the Provincial Government to give such assistance as is required to hold an apple-show in the Province
this year."    Carried.
Mr. Maxwell Smith was called upon for a few words on this subject.
Mr. Chairman, I thank you for asking me to say a word or two here to-night. I wish,
however, that I had been asked before this resolution was passed. I think it could have
been improved very much. As many of you know, the suggestion has not only been made,
but has been very diligently canvassed, not only throughout British Columbia, but throughout
Canada, that we adopt the plan of holding a Canadian National Apple-show. The wording
of the resolution pertains to British Columbia alone, which is unfortunate. This has not
only been well received by British Columbia, but has been taken up by the Eastern Provinces,
and we have quite a number of important communications indorsing the idea. I am sorry
that at the present time there has not been a definite organization formed that could send
an accredited delegate to this Convention, as well as to other places; but I might say, Mr.
Chairman, that I think it is not only within the bounds of possibility, but altogether likely
that within the next few weeks there will be a definite organization formed for the express
purpose of promoting the first National Canadian Apple-show in the City of Vancouver.
The appeal will first be made to the city itself, through the Council and its public men, and
then, no doubt, they will come to Victoria and ask the Provincial Government to do their
share, which I am sure they will do, as they have always done what is right in helping what
they could in the Province. And I believe that we could go with success to the Department
of Agriculture in Ottawa and ask the same thing of them. The idea at present is that the
show should be held in British Columbia the initial year, but not held in the same Province
any two consecutive years. The apple-shows of 1908-9 have done more for the agricultural
resources of this country than any other one thing. If the apple-show was held in British
Columbia, I do not think it could be surpassed as an advertisement of the resources of this
Province,  and you   have been discussing   many features   in your programme this evening 1 Geo. 5 Agricultural Fairs Association. N 27
that would be strongly brought out there. It would also be one of the* best educational
features that could ever be brought about, as setting a high standard for the fruit exhibitors
of this Province. I wish that that resolution had simply stated that " this Convention
indorses the proposition of holding the first Canadian National Apple-show in British
Columbia," as we want such things in such shape that we can go East for support.
Before I sit down, gentlemen, permit me to congratulate the Deputy Minister of Agriculture
and his Department for the institution of this Convention. This is, in my mind, a very
important step forward in encouraging the agricultural industries of the Province along
proper lines, and your attempt to get at some uniformity of standard and action is a step
in the right direction, and the Department is to be highly congratulated upon it.
Mr. Annable: Mr. Chairman, in accordance with the wish of Mr. Smith, I beg to
withdraw my resolution.
Mr. Smith : With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I would beg to suggest to the mover
of the resolution the following wording : " That this Convention indorse the proposal to hold
the first Canadian National Apple-show in British Columbia in November of this year."
Motion seconded and carried.
The Chairman: I wish to thank all present to-night for their assistance. We have
accomplished a good deal of work this evening, but I regret that more time could not be
given to this meeting. Next year I hope that we may have one, or even two, days to give
up to this work, and that the various features pertaining to agricultural associations may be
taken up and discussed thoroughly. I wish to thank you again, gentlemen, for the courtesy
which you have extended to the Department, and the assistance given us in endeavouring to
bring about some uniformity in the exhibitions of British Columbia.
Mr. Ball: I have great pleasure in moving a vote of thanks to the Secretary. Seconded
and carried.
It was moved and seconded—"That votes of thanks be tendered to the Hon. the Premier
and Mr. Scott, the Deputy Minister of Agriculture."    Carried.
Moved and seconded that the meeting adjourn. N 28 British Columbia Agricultural Fairs Association. 1910
B. C. AGRICULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS.
Revised List, with Dates of Fairs.
First  Circuit.
Alberni , September 14th and 15th.
Nanaimo  ii 16th and 17th.
The Islands (Ganges)      m 21st.
Comox  n 22nd and 23rd.
Cowichan ,  n 23rd and 24th.
Victoria  ii 27th to Oct. 1st.
Shawnigan   October        1st.
North and South Saanich         n 7th and Sth.
Second Circuit.
Coquitlam September 20th.
Chilliwack      *   „ 20th and 22nd.
Maple Ridge (Port Haney)  ,, 21st and 22nd.
Kent (Agassiz)  ,, 27th and 28th.
Mission  ,, 29th.
Third Circuit.
Nicola September 14th.
Okanagan (Vernon).
Kelowna    	
Armstrong   	
Salmon Arm.
Kamloops
14th to 16th.
19th to 21st.
22nd and 23rd.
23rd and 24th.
28th to 30th.
Summerland October       17th and 18th.
Fourth Circuit.
Vancouver August 15th to 20th.
North Vancouver September   9th and 10th.
Central Park, Vancouver    ,, 21st and 22nd.
Delta (Ladner)  „ 23rd and 24th.
Surrey  „ 27th.
Langley  „ 28th.
New Westminster October 4th to Sth.
Richmond (Eburne) ,         „ 11th and 12th.
Fifth  Circuit.
Revelstoke   September   6th and 7th.
Cranbrook  „ 21st and 22nd.
Nelson  n 28th to 30th.
Grand Forks October        4th and 5th.
Kasl°        .. 20th and 21st.
B. G. Agricultural  Fairs Association—Albert E.  Craddock, Secretary, Department of
Agriculture, Victoria, B. C.
victoria, b. c. :
Printed by Richard Wolfendek, I.S.O., V.D., Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty.
1910.

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