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ANNUAL REPORT OF THE DAIRYMEN'S ASSOCIATION OF BRITISH COLUMBIA FOR THE YEAR ENDING DECEMBER 31st, 1906. British Columbia. Legislative Assembly 1907

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 ANNUAL   REPORT
DAIRYMEN'S ASSOCIATION OF BRITISH COLUMBIA
-for the-
YEAR ENDING DECEMBER 31st, 1906.
^c^RLSy^S3-
PRINTED  BY  ORDER   OF
THE   LEGISLATIVE   ASSEMBLY   OF   BRITISH   COLUMBIA.
VICTORIA, B. C.:
Printed by Richard WoIiFEKDEN, I.S.O., V. D., Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty.
1907.  To the Hon. R. G. Tatloiv,
Minister of Agriculture.
Sir,—I have the honour of presenting the following Report of the Dairymen's Association of British Columbia for the year 1906 for general distribution.
Respectfully submitted,
J. R. ANDERSON,
Deputy Minister of Agriculture.
Department of Agriculture,
Victoria, July, 1907.  7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 5
BRITISH COLUMBIA DAIRYMEN'S ASSOCIATION.
ANNUAL    REPORT.
Victoria, B. O, March 7th, 1907.
The annual meeting of the British Columbia Dairymen's Association was held at the
Parliament Buildings, Victoria, B. O, Thursday, the 7th day of March, 1907, at. 8 p. m.
Present: Messrs. A. C. Wells, President; Geo. E. Sangster, Vice-President; J. R. Anderson, Deputy Minister of Agriculture; F. M. Logan, Secretary-Treasurer; Directors—W. E.
Buckingham, H. W. Raymer, S. Smith and J. T. Collins.
Among others present were John Oliver, M.P.P., Charles W. Munro, M.P.P., Thomas
Cunningham, W. H. Ladner, H. M. Vasey, C. R. King, B. B. Smith, Chris. Brown, Thomas
Munro, R. D. McKenzie, Alex. Davie, H. Nixon, George Heggie and James Evans.
The meeting was called to order by the President, after which the minutes of the last
annual meeting were read and adopted.
The Secretary submitted a financial statement, showing the receipts and expenditure for
the past year.
Auditor's Report.
The Auditor's report was then read, which is as follows :—
To the President, Officers and Members of the B. G. Dairymen's Association.
Gentlemen,—I have inspected the books, accounts and vouchers, as submitted by your
Secretary, and find the same to be correct. The amount received for membership fees, which
seems to be the only cash handled by your Secretary, amounts to $36, out of which has been
paid the sum of $17.50, leaving a credit balance of $18.50 in the hands of your Secretary.
Respectfully submitted.
March 5th, 1907. Thos. Cunningham, Auditor.
The Secretary stated that while Mr. Trapp was elected an Auditor last year, he was unable
to get here, and that Mr. Cunningham, the other Auditor appointed, had audited the books.
He further explained that while a Government grant of $1,200 was put through the Estimates
last year, he did not ask that it be handed over to the Association, but left it in the Treasury
Department for them to disburse. Most of this is on hand still, and to-day the Minister
authorised a cheque to be handed over to the Association for $300, to pay the expenses of this
meeting.    But at the present time the only assets on hand is $18.50.
Moved by Mr. W. E. Buckingham, seconded by Mr. Vasey, " That the Auditor's report
be received and adopted."    Motion carried.
Secretary : I may say that when the Auditor audited the accounts of the old Association,
it was found that the old Association was in debt for advertising and other expenses to the
extent of something like $300, besides some $2,300 lost on live stock sales, and the Government gave a grant towards this of $275, and there was a credit in the bank of about $50.
The Auditor also audited those accounts, and this is his report:—
To the President, Officers and Members of the British Columbia Dairymen's Association.
Gentlemen,—I have carefully inspected the books, accounts and vouchers of the old
Association, as submitted by your Secretary, and find the same to be correct.
I find that after all claims have been paid to date, there remains a credit balance of
$55.53 in the hands of your Secretary.
All of which is respectfully submitted.
Thomas Cunningham, Auditor.
Victoria, March 5th, 1907.
Moved by Mr. King, seconded by Mr. Ladner, " That the Auditor's report be adopted."
Carried. L 6 British Columbia 1907
Directors' Report.
The Directors' Report was then read by the Secretary, as follows :—
Your Directors beg leave to submit the following annual report :
We would call your attention to the fact that the past year has been encouraging to the
farmers in this Province who are engaged in the dairy industry. The average price of dairy
products has been higher than during any year since creameries were established in this
Province, and the demand for good butter seems to be increasing considerably faster than the
supply. In spite of the fact that two or three new creameries have been operated during the
past year, and that each of the other creameries, with the exception of two, did a larger
business than ever before, the dealers found it necessary to import a large quantity of butter
from the Eastern Provinces, and several shipments from Australia. Only during two months
of the year does British Columbia make enough butter to supply the demand ; so if the business were increased until the present output was doubled the market would not be overstocked,
except for two or three summer months, and this surplus could be easily disposed of, if put up
in proper form. These things considered, the dairymen of the Province can enlarge their
herds and double their supply of milk, with the assurance that good prices are likely to obtain
for several years to come.
The total output from the creameries during the year 1906 amounted to 1,619,176 ttis., an
increase of 220,000 lbs. over that of 1905. The amount paid to patrons was $378,445,
$54,194 more than was paid last year. These figures are encouraging, when you consider that
in several of the other provinces the dairy industry is decreasing rather than gaining. While
the quality of the butter is slowly improving, it is yet far from perfect. To produce the best
butter in America should be the aim of the dairymen of British Columbia. This can only be
made from good cream, and a large percentage of the cream coming from the farm is certainly
not good. We hope, however, by visits from the Inspector as frequent as possible, and by
other educational methods, that these conditions may be improved, and that only butter of the
first quality will some day be made.
The extreme scarcity of labour is a strong factor in preventing a still greater increase of
dairy products. It is almost an impossibility to employ experienced milkers, so that in several
instances farmers have been obliged to reduce their herds as a consequence. This being true,
it is one of the strongest arguments in favour of better cows. Labour is so scarce and
expensive that no farmer can afford to be milking twenty cows when ten good ones, with half
of the labour, would give as much milk. No Government, or Government official, can do this
work for the farmer; it is a labour he must perform himself.
How to improve the herds of the Province is one of the most important questions that
this Association can consider, and which, we trust, will be fully considered later in the meeting.
Steps have been taken during the past year to improve conditions with respect to the sale of
creamery butter. By more co-operation among the creameries in this regard, we hope that the
needless lowering of prices, which usually occurs when the grass is at its best, and when
each creamery has a much increased output, will be overcome.
If each creamery would put up some of this surplus in boxes and sell at a slightly reduced
price, or hold in cold storage for a few weeks, the wholesale price of print butter need never
go below 25 cents per lb. If this can be carried out, several thousands of dollars will be saved
for the farmers of this Province.
We are looking forward with interest to the development of the milking machine, which
seems to be getting nearer perfection each year. One of the latest makes has been purchased
by the B. C. Electric Company, who intend placing it on trial in some farm dairy stable, where
intending purchasers may see it in practical operation. If this machine proves a success, it
should do much to increase the dairy output of the Province, as in many cases the herds could
be more than doubled if the problem of milking them by machinery is satisfactorily solved.
With natural conditions so favourable to the dairy industry, it should some day be one of
the greatest wealth-producing features of the Province. It should be the aim of each member
of this Association to work with that object in view, until British Columbia can boast of
having the cleanest milk and the best butter produced in America.
A. C. Wells,
F. M. Logan, President.
Secretary. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 7
The Chairman c Now, gentlemen, what will you do with the Directors' report? I may
say that there is a good deal of business marked out in this report, and it has been specially
prepared, not only to draw the attention of this Association to the work we have been doing
during the last year, but makes suggestions for the future usefulness of the Association, and I
would not like to see this paper passed over without some decision, and taking up the points
of interest either forthwith or later on.
Mr. C. R. King: The Directors' report, Mr. Chairman, as it appears to me, is one of a
very encouraging character, and there are many points in it that require considerable
consideration by this Association, and it seems to me that it would not be well to adopt the
report without having it thoroughly discussed. I know there are some points in it that I
would like to say something on at a later date, but I cannot now, just from the reading of the
report. I would like to be able to see it so that I can study the points of interest more closely,
and I would move that the report be received for future discussion. I do not know whether
the present would be the best time to discuss it. Perhaps there are other matters of business
to come up, and we could discuss this matter later on in the meeting. I would, therefore,
move that it be received and laid on the table for future discussion.
Motion seconded by Mr. D. R. McKenzie and carried.
The Chairman : We will have the reading of the Secretary's report now, gentlemen.
Report read by Secretary, as follows :—
Report op Dairy Inspector and Secretary.
Mr. President and Members of the Dairymen's Association,—As Secretary of the Association and Dairy Inspector for British Columbia, I would beg leave to submit the following
report :—
First, I wish to state that I regret the fact that so much of my time during the past year
has been taken up in other lines of work, that I have been unable to devote as much time for
dairy inspection work as I should have liked, or as was really needed. My time was occupied
in connection with the spring stallion show and auction sale until after March 20th. Then I
spent several weeks engaged in Institute work in different parts of the Province. After that
work was completed, I was requested by the Deputy Minister to get out a bulletin on farm
buildings. To work out designs of this nature takes time, so three or four weeks were occupied
in this way. Later in the summer the Deputy Minister was engaged for several weeks on
Institute work with Prof. Shutt, of Ottawa, which necessitated my being in the office a large
part of the time during his absence. Soon after Mr. Anderson's return the fall fairs began,
and so four or five weeks more were occupied in judging live stock, dairy products, &c. By the
time the fairs were over, Institute work began, which again kept me engaged for some time.
Then about the middle of November I received instructions from the Dominion Department
-of Agriculture to come to Ottawa to discuss matters in relation to the work in this Province,
and as they were paying my salary, I was, of course, subject to their instructions. Owing to
the illness and excessive duties of the Minister, I was detained in Ottawa much longer than I
•expected, so upon my return I had to at once get out a prize list and perform other duties in
■connection with the spring fair, which is to open on March 20th. This programme, along with
the answering of numerous correspondents upon a wide variety of subjects, has made it
necessary for me to remain in the office until nearly midnight on several occasions. I thought
it best to make this statement so that those interested would understand why my visits among
the creameries had not been more frequent. Since taking up the work, I have visited each
factory in the Province, and some of them several times, besides inspecting over 100 farm
dairies in different parts. Most of the factories have competent butter-makers who do not
need very much instruction or advice, but this is not true in all cases. I found that some of
the makers had a good deal to learn. In some cases they seem to be decidedly careless about
their personal appearance, or the appearance of the factory. Others have had rather a limited
■experience in the work, so have yet to learn some of the important principles of butter-making.
It might be interesting to mention that the Government of Ontario employs 36 instructors,
who spend nearly all their time among the different cheese and butter factories in that Province.
These instructors are employed in order that they may teach the men in charge of the factories
to produce a uniformly good article. So important is the instruction of the maker considered,
that one instructor reports as having visited only 18 patrons during six months, another 22
and another 24. They are beginning to realise, however, that to produce first-class cheese and
butter they must have good milk and cream, therefore, some of this educational work must be
done at the farms, but, of course, this means more instructors and more expense. L 8 British Columbia 1907"
I found 18 creameries in operation during the past year, an increase of two over the-
preceding year,—one new one being established at Lumby and another at Vancouver. The
output from these creameries, as stated in the Directors' report, amounted to 1,619,176 Bos.,
valued at about $430,000, quite a sum of money to be divided up among less than 1,000"
patrons. One of the best features in connection with the industry is that, in spite of the
scarcity of labour, there has been a decided increase in the output, several of the creameries
gaining as much as 20 % when compared with the previous year's make. Another interesting
feature is that the average price of butter has also increased considerably, when compared with
1905. When we consider that one cent per lb. on the total output means $16,000 more for
the patrons, we realise that this, too, is important. You may be interested, too, in learning
that a cheese factory was started. This is at Langley, and was built and operated by Mr.
E. G. Sherwood, of Everett, Wash. This factory did a very fair business this season, and'
bids fair to have a much increased output next year. Another factory was built about four
miles from this one late in the season, but was not operated. There is a large amount of
cheese consumed in the Province, so there would be a ready demand, at a good price, for the-
output of several such industries. Cheese factories are less expensive than creameries, and
might well be started in districts wdiere the amount of milk is too small to warrant the building;
of a creamery.
Since becoming interested in the dairy industry of this Province I have been trying to
work out some plan which would prevent the market being overstocked with print butter
when the grass is at its best, and when each creamery has a largely increased output. In.
September last I wrote to each creamery in the Province, asking them to send at least one
representative to a meeting to be held in New Westminster at the time of the fall fair.
Nearly all the creameries complied with this request, and after the object of the meeting had
been explained, it was unanimously decided to form what is now known as the Creamery-
Owners' Association. The object of this Association is for the purpose of co-operating, as far
as possible, in the sale of creamery butter, and in other matters of mutual interest. At a
later meeting a committee was appointed to arrange, as far as possible, the selling price of
butter. The creameries' representatives also agreed that, instead of putting up their surplus-
butter in prints, that they will pack it in tubs or boxes and sell at the market price of such
butter, or hold in cold storage for a few weeks until the market has improved, instead of
forcing it on the market and lowering the price. If this agreement is sanctioned by the
different creameries and carried out, it will be the means of saving them several thousand of
dollars. During the month of June, last year, there was probably made 250,000 lbs. of butter.
By the action of one or two creameries the price was dropped from 25 to 21 cents. This,
reduced price, for one month, meant a loss to the farmers of this Province of $10,000 to
$15,000. You may say that the consumer gets the benefit, but the point is this : that at the-
present price of labour no farmer can afford to produce butter to be sold at 21 cents per lb.,,
and if conditions compel him to do so he will certainly go out of the business, which, in the
end, will be much more disastrous for the consumer. I am hopeful that this new arrangement
will do much to obviate this defect in the marketing of creamery butter.
The more I have to do with the dairy industry the more convinced I am of the need of
improved conditions at the farms. If we are going to produce butter of the highest quality^
the butter makers must have better cream. Some of the patrons seem perfectly willing to-
try and produce good milk and cream, but they do not know how. They have no idea how a
separator should be washed, or how cream should be cared for after it is separated. There is-
little use in sending a patron's cream back because he does not know what he should do to
improve it. The only way is to go to his place and teach him how and what to do, This,
takes time, and when you realise that there are hundreds like this man, you begin to realise
what the inspection of each farm dairy means.
There are others who know how but are too careless to do this work as it should be done-
For a man like this the only possible way is to condemn his premises, and either make him.
clean up or stop him from selling his products. A good deal of missionary work will have to
be done before we can hope to reach a state of perfection. As I said in the beginning of this,
report, I regret not being able to devote more time to this work. I do not know whether I
shall take up the work again this year, but if I do, I can assure you that I shall arrange to
spend a large part of my time in the inspection of farm dairies.
A feature which I think would do much to improve this matter is the grading of cream
at the different creameries.    Where the supply of cream is only sufficient to make one churning; 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 9
a day it could not be so easily done, but when a sufficient quantity is taken in each day to
make two or three churnings, it would cause very little extra labour or expense. If a printed
slip, stating that his cream was graded as No. 2, was sent to a patron each time it happened,
conveying also the fact that he would be paid 2 cents per B). less for the butter fat in this
cream, it would certainly have a decidely beneficial effect. This would also be fairer than the
present method, as it is certainly not right for the man who sends good cream to have it reduced
in value by mixing it with poor cream from another farm. Some of the creameries have about
decided to adopt this plan, and I should like to heartily recommend it.
In order that the factories and surroundings may be kept in the best possible condition,
some of the Provinces are giving prizes to the butter or cheese-maker who is the most painstaking and careful in this matter, and, needless to say, it has produced excellent results. This
Association could, perhaps, spend a small sum of money in this way, and encourage the makers
to set the farmers the best example possible.
The success and profits in the dairy business from the farmer's standpoint depends very
largely upon the kind of cows he is keeping. Labour is too scarce and expensive to be employed
in milking a lot of female steers. Steps have been taken by the Dairy Department at Ottawa
to induce farmers to keep a record of what each cow is producing, and in this way surprising
information is obtained. One farmer told me that the cow he had always suspected of being
the poorest turned out to be the best in his stable. I heard another say that one of his cows
gave 11,500 lbs. of milk, and another one, at about the same cost, gave 3,500 lbs., a difference
in one year of about $80. This information is gained by the formation of Testing Associations
in the different districts, a subject which I should like to hear discussed before this Convention
finally adjourns.
1 shall not further extend this report, except to say that I wish to take this opportunity
of thanking the officers and members of this Association for the courteous treatment I have
received from them during the past year. I trust that my efforts, though limited for want of
time, have been of some benefit to the dairy industry of this Province.
I look forward to the time, which should soon come, when the factories of this Province
will have an output valued at $1,500,000, instead of the $400,000 now produced. With the
most favourable climate, the best grazing land, and the most intelligent farmers in Canada,
what is there to prevent ?
F. M. Logan,
Secretary.
The Chairman : Well, gentlemen, what will you do with the Secretary's report?
Mr. Vasey : Well, Mr. President and gentlemen, although not doing much in the dairyiny
business, 1 heartily endorse the report read here. I think Mr. Logan has covered the ground
fairly well, and I take great pleasure in moving that the report be received.
Mr. Davie: Mr. President, I take pleasure in seconding it.
Mr. Ladirer : I think, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that we might go a little further
than that. I think Mr. Logan should be highly complimented for the interest he has takerr
in this matter, and for the very valuable support he has given us. I should like to go a little
further, because I think he deserves a great deal of credit, and if he only keeps on with what
he is doing now, I think he will help the dairying industry.
Mr. Vasey: Mr. President, if Mr. Ladner will move that as in amendment, I will
certainly support it.
Mr. Ladner : I will certainly put it as an amendment then. And the mover says he
seconds it.
Motion carried.
The Chairman : Now, those papers are open for discussion when the proper time comes
for bringing them up. Have you any suggestions to make now with regard to these reports ?
If not, we may perhaps take them up to-morrow.
Mr. C. R. King: Mr. President, there are several things in these different reports which
I should like to see discussed at this meeting of the Association and discussed pretty freely.
For instance, there is the question of a Secretary and Inspector. It seems to me, from the
remarks in the introduction of the Secretary's report, and from the account he gave of his
work, that he has pretty nearly all he can attend to now, without being saddled with the
work of the Dairymen's Association. I should judge that, as a very large part of his
time has been occupied in other work in connection with the Agricultural Department.
That being the case,  and the fact of the  dairying  interests  increasing  so largely in the L 10 British Columbia 1907
Province, as I was very much pleased to see by the Director's report there has been a
large increase in the output of the creameries ; in addition to that, there have been two
extra creameries established in the Province, and I have no doubt in the incoming year there
will be increases in addition to these; therefore, taking all this into consideration, extra
assistance is needed. It seems to me that, taking the conditions as they exist in this Province,
it should be the largest butter-producing province in the Dominion of Canada; and I have no
doubt when we obtain a larger population than we have at the present time that you will
find, sir, that British Columbia will be the largest and the best producer of butter in the
Dominion of Canada, and I may say produced in any market, as the butter which has been
manufactured in Canada in the past has been proven to be of a very high order, and shows
that a great deal of attention and care has been given to the work by those interested in it.
And I have no doubt, and I firmly believe, that it is largely due to the work of this Associa-
tian that the butter that is manufactured in this Province has obtained such a high name as
it has. (Cries of "hear, hear.") I am getting a little away from my subject that I started
out to speak on. Regarding the secretaryship, the Secretary has told us that his duties were
largely taken up outside of the dairy work, and it seems to me that the dairying interests have
become of so great and important a character, and so large, that it will require the entire work
of one man to look after them. We want an Inspector, and we want a man that will be
around among the farmers in the different districts, giving instructions to the creamery men
and to the farmers in their dairies; one who will look after the dairies, and see that they are
kept in good condition, and that the creameries are also kept in good condition. As Mr.
Logan has reported, he has found a great many of them that are not in such a condition as
would tend to produce the best class of butter, and it seems to me that we should apply to
the Government for a Secretary to devote his whole time to the work, and an Inspector, so
that he may devote his entire time to the dairying interests of the Province; and I have no
doubt that in a few years' time the character of the work connected with the dairying interests
will be so great, and the products so large, that it will require the services of one or two
instructors and inspectors. That being the case, I believe in asking the Government to take
this matter up and carry it out to its proper conclusion. I was glad to see, Mr. President,
that the output of the creameries is increasing. But at the same time, the Secretary has told
us, there have been large quantities of butter imported from the Provinces to the east of us,
and more particularly during these last few months from Australia. It has been coming in
here in immense quantities, and has been taking the place of the local butter almost entirely.
I cannot speak for Vancouver, but I have noticed in Victoria that this butter has largely
taken the place of our local butter and the butter of the Province, and it will be so until such
a time as regulations are made that we can give more uniform prices for butter; for instance,
better prices in the summer and lower prices in the winter. And we cannot have lower
prices until we get a larger supply of butter, because the Australian butter comes in here and
sells from 5c. to 10c. a pound lower than the local butter. That being the case, the people
take it at once, and dealers have told me that within the last few days they are getting in less
and less of the local butter, and the Australian butter is taking its place. Well, Mr. President, that should not be. It should not be so at any time. I believe that the conditions are
such here that we can make the dairying supply here sufficient for the whole of the Province,
and keep out the foreign" butter, and I think that we should not allow our efforts or our
energies in this respect to be lax until such is the case. When that is so, we will then be in
a better position to regulate the prices and regulate the sales of the butter. That, I think, is
of the utmost importance to the dairying industry, the regulation of the price of butter. And
I was glad to note in the report of the Secretary it spoke of the fact that the proprietors of
the creameries had taken this matter up, and had decided on certain regulations which would
keep a more uniform price for the local butter, and I hope that this will be fully carried out.
(Applause.)
Mr. Smith : Well, Mr. President and gentleman, I quite agree with what Mr. King says
about a man devoting more of his time to the dairying industry, and I have drawn up a
resolution here as follows :—
" Owing to the increase in the Dairy industry of British Columbia, and the importance
of producing milk, cream and butter of the first quality, we would recommend that Mr. F. M.
Logan be appointed Dairy Inspector for the Province, and would suggest that his entire time
be devoted to this purpose."
Mr. Raymur : I take pleasure in seconding that resolution. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 11
Mr. Ladner: That is a subject, gentlemen, in which I am very deeply interested.
Coming from a land where milk and honey flows, I feel quite an interest in the dairying
industry. And so would you, gentlemen, too, if you owned the stock I do in the Creamery
up in that country. I own more individual stock in that Creamery than any other one person,
and I had, sir, $16.42 for every $10 share I had in it, and that is a pretty good return, I think,
on your money. Now, gentlemen, that goes to show that the dairying industry should be
supported, and we want to have some one there to see that our creameries and dairies are
kept in the very best condition to produce the best results ; and when we do that, then I think
we will keep our money at home instead of sending it to Australia and other places, for we
can make better butter right here in this Province of British Columbia than they can.
(Applause).
Mr. Vasey : Well, gentlemen, while I endorse the resolution brought forward by Mr.
Smith, as Vice-President of the Stock Breeders' Association, I must have a little of Mr.
Logan's time in that Association. But, possibly, he could attend to that as well, as it would
not take up a great deal of his time; but I want it understood that we want a little share of
Mr. Logan's time in connection with that Association.
Mr. Buckingham : I am certainly very heartily in accord with the resolution that has
been placed before the meeting to-night, and as Mr. Vasey has said, we need a little of Mr.
Logan's time also in our Live Stock Association work. I think he is a pretty good-natured
fellow, and I think if we get him in the Dairy Association he will likely give a little of his
time to the Live Stock Association work. I certainly have very much pleasure in supporting
the resolution, and I think he is the right man in the right place.    (Loud applause.)
Mr. Smith : Well, Mr. President, I do not think there can be any objection, as far as I
can see, to Mr. Logan acting as Secretary to the Live Stock Association as well. There is no
great work attached to it, only in the fall of the year. However, Mr. Logan will know better
than I do if it will take up much of his time.
Mr. Logan : I do not know that I should say anything on this, because it has not as yet
passed, and I may be speaking too soon. But as for the time employed as Secretary of the
Live Stock Association, the work in connection with that has not taken up a great deal of my
time during the past year. The nrost of my work has been connected with Institute work,
which I spent some two months at during the last year ; then there was the getting out of the
bulletin on farm buildings, which took nearly another month. However, I hope that time
was not altogether wasted, as I had a report from one man who said I had saved bim $700 in
the building of a barn by that bulletin. Then the judging at the fall fairs; it took five or six
weeks. You can see it took up a good deal more of my time, which is not strictly live stock
work. Then I was called away to Ottawa, as I explained in my report, and, owing to the
illness of the Minister, I was detained much longer than I otherwise should have been. So in
that way several mouths of my time were taken up, during the last year, in work which was
not directly due to the fact that I was the Secretary of the Live Stock Association. I may
say that the work in connection with that Association would be largely for a month or two
at the time of the spring fairs ; that is when most of the work comes in connection with that
Association. However, I don't know that you need worry about that, because, perhaps, the
Live Stock Association will not want me wben they meet.
The Chairman : Gentlemen, if you will allow me, I would like to express myself on this
resolution. I am glad that the resolution has been brought forward, and I think that we
should ask for just what this resolution asks for, and then if Mr Logan's time is to be used
for other purposes—and, of course, he will be under the Government's direction—then another
man should be supplied in his place. I am glad to say that we have a good many—or quite a
number of men, at all events—who would be able to fill that place, probably not so well as
Mr. Logan, but who, under the direction of Mr. Anderson and Mr. Logan together, would no
doubt work wonders. Now, in referring to Ontario, the reports invariably go to show that
where there is an inspection of the dairies and creameries the quality is improved, the output
of the creameries and cheese factories being also improved. So I think it is one of the best
paying investments that we can make in having the Government carry.out the terms of this
resolution, and in conversation with the Minister yesterday he signified his willingness to
comply with our wishes in this matter. Now, I do not know that he could have done any
more.
Mr. King: Mr. Chairman, I wish to say that while Mr. Logan was explaining to us his
work outside of the dairying industry and the live stock industry, I find the time he devoted L 12 British Columbia 1907
to that outside work was nearly seven months of the year. And we don't want to take Mr.
Logan away from the Live Stock Association, but we want him to give more time, in fact,
give his whole attention to the dairying interests. It does seem to me that last year, just
when the dairying interests required his presence and his work, he was off on something else
connected with the Live Stock Association, and he cannot give his attention to both of these
and do justice to either one. That is the position I take. And I believe that the dairying
interests are becoming so great now, and are of such an important character, that Mr. Logan's
whole time can be devoted to that work, and it would not be very long before another man
would have to be appointed to assist in the work. At the present time, if it was found that
part of Mr. Logan's time was necessary to be given to the live stock interests, then he could
give us as much of his time as was possible, and the Government could appoint an Inspector
and an Instructor to give his time to the work. We should strongly urge upon the Government the importance of the dairying industry, and the importance of the work of instruction
and inspection to the dairymen and to the creameries at the present time ; to impress upon
them the necessity of keeping the creameries clean, and have the dairies kept in good condition, so that the cream may come to the creameries in a fit condition to make first-class butter.
Mr. Cunningham : Mr. President, I think I ought to give a side view on this question.
If you will remember—I think it was ten years ago, soon after the Dairyman's Association was
organised—we took the very same ground we have taken to-night. If you will recollect,
there was a resolution brought forwai'd something like this—that it be recommended to the
Government to appoint a Dairy Commissioner, whose sole business would be to attend to the
dairying industry. That resolution is on record, and from then until now I have never
changed my views. Then we switched off to the live stock business, and in that way the
Dairyman's Association was diverted from its original purpose, which should never have been.
And all this only goes to prove to me that we are on the right track now in getting back
again to where we started. And while the Live Stock Association work may be closely allied
with that of the Dairyman's Association, at the same time I do not think its connection with
the dairying industry is so great or intimate that it cannot be divided. As a matter of fact,
I think the dairying industry is of such importance and so great now, and the opportunities are
so great for its development—and we have the best dairying climate in Canada, and, I think,
the best in North America—and while I. cannot go so far as my friend Mr. King goes in
reference to the future, I think there is a grand opening for the development of the dairying
industry, and I think it requires the sole attention of a Secretary to be devoted to that
purpose, and to that purpose only. This is the day of specialising. People who don't
specialise are going to fall behind and be left in the rear. A man must have a specific
purpose, and must have a specific business in life before he is going to succeed. And I
seriously think that we should stick to that principle, in this connection, and have the
attention of one man devoted to this dairying work, and have the best man that can be
obtained. I suppose Mr. Logan is the best man for the business. I think the best talent
and the best man that can be obtained should be devoted to this one thing, namely, the
dairying industry. I have never changed my views on this subject since the organisation of
the Dairyman's Association, and our experience teaches us the dangers of dividing our aims
and purposes, and that we should give attention to the one thing, namely, the development of
the dairying industry. I have much pleasure in supporting this resolution, gentlemen, and I
might add this further thought, that the duties of the Dairy Inspector should be confined to
one specific purpose, namely, to the dairying industry.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I wish to make a few remarks about
the employment of Mr. Logan. There seems to be the impression that Mr. Logan is employed
as Dairy Inspector. Well, now, the history of Mr. Logan's employment here originated in
this way. A proposition was made by the Dominion Government that one of their officers
should be sent here, and was to be under the direction of the Department for undertaking-
work generally in connection with the live stock, dairying and any other work that might come
under that heading. And in consequence of that proposition, at New Westminster, over a
year ago (the Honourable Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Fishei*, was there), a contract was consummated on those lines. Mr. Logan was loaned to this Department, and his time was paid
for by the Dominion Government, and at first his expenses also. But subsequently it was
arranged that the Province should pay the expenses of Mr. Logan's movements, and he was to
be under the direction of the Department for general purposes, and the appointment of
Inspector was incidental, and for that reason a good deal of Mr. Logan's time has been taken
up in connection with other matters. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 13
Mr. Smith : Excuse my speaking again. But I think that all the time Mr. Logan will
take up with the Live Stock Association will probably be a benefit to the Dairying Association, because in that way he will be kept closely in touch with the Association, and when the
farmers want to get stock he will be able to tell them where he can get it, and the time that
he spends with the Live Stock Association will be well spent, in so far as the farmers are concerned.
Mr. Vasey : Well, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the way we feel in the Live Stock
Association is that we have the right man in the right place. We would feel rather hurt if
we had to give up Mr. Logan. He has worked in the interests of the Association, and has
helped us out in ways that other secretaries would not have done, and I hope that you will not
try to steal him away altogether.
The Chairman : Well, now, we have had a very interesting discussion on this matter.
I see my friend Mr. Munro, from Chilliwack, is here, and Mr. Oliver. Perhaps they would
like to say a few words to us. If not now, later on, as we will expect Mr. Munro and Mr.
Oliver to speak here. I may say that we will be very glad if everyone will take an interest in
these proceedings, and sit around the table and work right in with us. We like to feel all one
in these matters.     (Reading resolution.)
Moved by Mr. S. Smith, seconded by Mr. H. WT. Raymer :—
" Owing to the increase in the dairy industry of British Columbia, and the importance of
producing milk, cream and butter of the first quality, we would recommend that Mr. F. M.
Logan be appointed Dairy Inspector for the Province, and would suggest that his entire time
be devoted to this purpose."
Motion carried.
Mr. Logan : Mr. President and gentlemen, I don't want to take up any more time of the
Association, but it is certainly gratifyfng to have the Association pass a resolution such as
that.    I do not know that I deserve as much commendation as has been given here this evening.
I have, however, tried to do something towards the improvement of live stock and dairy
matters since I came here, and any other matters that related to farming operations, and if I
have been successful in the work with which I have been connected, and have imparted any
information to the farmers in general that has been of value to them, I am sure I am only too
pleased. I may say that just now I have to make a decision one way or the other. When
I was in Ottawa, a few weeks ago, the Live Stock Commissioner and Minister of Agriculture
decided I had to sever my connections with the Dairymen's and Live Stock Associations, and
wished me to remain as Live Stock Commissioner for this Province and for Alberta. I said
in that case, if this Government wanted me, I would be inclined to leave them and work for
this Province. (Applause.) And while they did not urge me to leave—in fact they offered
me inducements to stay with them—but I don't hesitate to say that I like this Province best
of any I have ever been in, and if it is agreeable to the people here, I certainly have no objection to staying in it.     (Applause.)
The Chairman : You are like the rest of us. I might say I don't know—Mr. Anderson,
of course, explained the matter pretty fully, but if Mr. Logan had had a free hand—that is, if
he had been employed by the British Columbia Government, and been paid a salary by the
British Columbia Government, he would no doubt have been working fully half his time last
year for us, or more. Of course, the thing was that we did not pay him, and be was not expected
to work for us, and we were fortunate to get what we did get from him. I think Mr. Logan
has put in his time faithfully, and I am sure when he was in our neighbourhood he did a great
deal of good. I know that. And if we had only been able to have had him about one month,
or more, during the year at different intervals in the Chilliwack Valley he would have earned
five times his wages. Now, while I am on this subject, if you will excuse me—there is nothing
before the meeting just now, and you might consider me altogether out of order if you like—
but I was just going to say this, that the dairy industry is not what it should be in British
Columbia. The butter that we make here might be better, and there are many things that
might combine to make it better. It is a fact that cream has been handled and sent away to
the creameries for use on the steamboats and other places that you and I—in fact, I don't
suppose there is one here who would have been willing to have it in your house, let alone eating
it. Now, some of these things are done by people who don't know any better. Now, those
who don't know better should be taught better, and those who do know better, then those
creameries that handle that kind of produce should be reported. Now, the creameries could
not send a man around to the different patrons and find out what kind of material they were L 14 British Columbia 1907
producing ; they could not do it. It would be almost as expensive to do this as the running
of the creamery. But a man who knows how to manage these things, and has practical
experience in the business, he would work a wonderful revolution. (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Now, if we want good prices, we have to deliver good goods. (" Hear, hear.") We must do
that, and until we deliver the very best we cannot expect the best prices. Now, we can certainly make better butter in British Columbia, I think, than they can in Australia, and then
we have not the long voyage they have, which out to help us. That is their handicap in
getting their butter to the British Columbia market, the long voyage, and the same thing with
Alberta. There is no part of the Dominion that can produce as good butter as we can produce
in British Columbia, as we have the conditions to help us. We have the long season of green
grass, and not hard winters, and we can produce good butter the year around. Of course, last
winter was an exceptionally hard winter, but not what you could call hard when compared to
the other Provinces. We have the best conditions ; but we have some new men in the country
who do not seem to know how to produce the best results. And I am sorry to say there are
some who have been here a long while, and they also have not learned very much on this line.
Mr. Vasey : Might I ask, doesn't our butter here compare favourably with that of other-
Provinces ?
The Chairman :  It does, but we want to beat the other Provinces.
Mr. R. D. McKenzie : I was just going to say, if you want really good butter, get the
Surrey butter.
Mr. Vasey : Mr. President, I think the Secretary's report got over a good deal of that. I
think if they would grade the cream as it came into the creameries you would get over the
difficulty much easier than by sending it back. If you grade a man's cream, Number 1, 2 or
3, and pay for it accordingly, you will get better results that way than any other. Touch a
man's pocket; that is the only way to get it right, for if he finds it is going to reduce his
revenue to bring in poor cream to the creameries he will soon set about making it right.
Mr. Nixon : Give the man at the creamery a little more swing—give him a little more
power. At the present time he does not care to refuse cream for fear of offending some of his
patrons. Now, if he had a little more power he would do more in the educating of the farmer
to produce better cream—in fact, a great deal more than by having an Inspector going around
inspecting the dairy, when, possibly, he only gets around there every six or seven months. The
creamery man is really in a position to be an educator on those lines.
The Chairman : Yes, if he makes butter at all he is an educator, but he cannot do the
whole of it.
Mr. Nixon : For instance, in taking in creams that you say are not fit for use he can even
go to work and manufacture that article in such a way that you would not know it from the
best, by the means of pasturization. That is, he kills the germ and inoculates. And in doing
that he brings out a good article, only it won't sell at as good a price as the other will.
The Chairman : Now, I don't profess to be an expert, but I will say this, without any
fear in my own mind of successful contradiction, if you produce bad milk, it is bad from the
bginning to the end.    (Applause.)
Mr. Nixon : I have no doubt of that to a certain extent, but you can remove that badness.
The minute you apply heat to cream you are pasturizing ; you drive off those bad odors, and
also drive off the flavours, that is, the natural flavours. But if we kill off all these bad flavours
and inoculate it with nothing more or less than good buttermilk, then we have the same
article.
Mr. J. T. Collins : Don't teach the farmers any more bad things than they know now.
The Chairman : I have no doubt my friend over here is correct in some degree—a slight
degree. I have no doubt pasturizing helps to take the bad flavours away. It does take the
bad flavours from the butter. But, do you know, I am just tempted to tell you a little story
of what happened over in Toronto the other day. I was there visiting a lady friend (laughter).
I am glad you laugh. She said, " We are getting very good milk, very good milk." I said,
" Where do you get your milk from 1" She said, " I am getting my milk down here "—she
told me the establishment, and she said it was a wonderful place. She said that the man
that was running the separator just showed her what he could get out of the milk, and
she said it was the vilest stuff you ever saw, and the separator took it all out, and she
said, " He showed me how clean the milk was after—perfectly pure." Well, do you know, I
didn't say a word, I didn't even laugh. It was at her table, and she was very kind to explain
it all to me.    Now, what was the use of that vile stuff in the milk in the first place 1    That 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 15
ought not to have been there in the first place. I know the separator takes out some slimy
looking material, but that is not dirt. She said it was black. Well, dairymen know what it
means. They know what it is. Now, the separator had taken it out, but did it take the
flavour of it out, or did it take the poison out 1    It might have taken out a little, that is all.
Mr. F. M. Logan : The President and some of the Directors have suggested that we
discuss for a few minutes the formation of a cow-testing association in different parts of the
Province. I might mention that these associations are being formed in other parts of Canada
for the testing of cows at the different farms. They find, as has been stated in reports made,
that some of the cows are giving a good profit, but that more are producing milk at a loss, so
that many men are in the dairy business practically for their health. They have so many poor
cows that they counterbalance the profit that the good ones make. Now, in any business a
man wants to know what he is making. For instance, if a man were in business and had stores
in different towns he would certainly keep an account of what each store was doing, so that he
would know whether one was giving a loss or a profit, and so on with the rest of them, to see
if he came out at the end of the year ahead or behind. Now, take, for instance, a farmer.
There are some good cows in his herd and some bad ones. Lots of the dairymen are making
a profit from the good ones, and the poor ones are about eating up that profit, and they do not
realise what is the trouble. Now, it is only by testing and weighing the milk that you know
what each cow is doing. I was talking to a man in Cowichan, who has a large dairy, and he
started weighing the milk from each cow two years ago, and he has increased the average from
each one of those cows, and the cow that he always considered the poorest, because she always
gave the smallest amount of milk, turned out the most profitable. Another man up at Comox
is weighing the milk, and has it tested occasionally. He started four years ago, and his cows
were then giving an average of 250 lbs. of butter, and he has now got them up to 400 lbs., and
he told me he was going to have an average of 500 lis. before long. Now, if a man tests the
milk from each cow he becomes especially interested in them ; he will feed them a little better,
and he will not leave them out in the cold rains when he finds, by weighing the milk each day,
that if left in the cold rain or exposed to cold or frost, they are going to give him less milk
that night. So all these things go to improve the herd. Now, the Dairy Department at
Ottawa has decided to furnish men to go throughout the different districts in the different
Provinces and do this testing, if the farmers want to have it done for them. I have talked
the matter over with the Dairy Commissioner, and he said he could not send a man out here
if only one district would agree to form this cow-testing association, but if four or five districts
would agree he would send a man out here, and it would not cost the farmer or the Province
anything. As a matter of fact, the only cost the farmer would be put to would be the cost of
a bottle for each cow and a scale to weigh the milk. It seems to me that this is worth considering and worth debating. I spoke at a meeting on Lulu Island about a week ago on this subject,
and every one who was there voted in favour of it, and they stated that they would join a cow-
testing association, and they moved that one be formed in that district. We should have no
difficulty in getting six or seven associations formed, and employ a man all the time for testing.
I would like to hear an expression of opinion on the matter, and if you think it worth your
while we will try to organise these cow-testing associations as soon as possible, and apply to
the Government for some one to do the work.
Mr. Smith : Mr. President, I think it is a move in the right direction. I feel sure there
will be no trouble in getting up one or two, or may be more, associations up in our district,
and I think we should take it up very strongly and trv to do what we can for it, and get it
going as soon as possible.
Mr. King : Mr. Chairman, I am not a dairyman, but it seems to me that that is the only
thing for a dairyman to do if he wants to make a success of his business. For instance, if he
has a herd of cows, and one of them is a loss to him every day, he wants to know, and get rid
of her, and keep only those in his dairy that will make him a profit. And it seems to me that,
for the farmers' own protection, they will need to have an association of this character, and
this movement appeals to me as being the very thing that is required in a dairying community.
And I think it would be a splendid thing to have these associations formed in the different
districts, and send for a tester, especially when the Government will send these men out.
The Chairman : I may say, gentlemen, I feel strongly in favour of this cow-testing
arrangement. In fact, we have been testing some of our herd, and we find it to be a great
advantage in the culling out of the poor ones. There are a good many cows in a herd that
appear to be good that are not good, and they ought to go to the block instead of keeping them
for milking purposes. L 16 British Columbia 1907
Mr. Cunningham : Or to your neighbours 1
The Chairman: No, that would not pay. There is only one way of finding out whether
you are making a profit or not on your herd, and that is by testing and proving what we are
doing.
Mr. Ladner : I do not see why we should go to the trouble of bringing out this cow-testing
arrangement. Why, I have a little appliance right now that does all that kind of thing.
Why, goodness gracious, there is no occasion for any association to report on that. All you
need is a little bottle, and the whole thing is as simple as A, B, C. There is no association
required for that. I have a little appliance up in my place which I will be very pleased to
show to anyone in the neighbourhood. There is no association necessary, because it is so
simple, and every man can do it by himself right at home, instead of packing it off to some
place else.    I am astonished.
Mr. J. R. Anderson :  Do you use it 1
Mr. Ladner:  I did wdien 1 was milking my cows.
The Chairman : They are Shorthorns that you have ?
Mr. Ladner :  And tbey are milkers.
Mr. Smith : Well, I do not quite agree with Mr. Ladner on this testing business, because
there is not one man in ten that will test correctly, and not one man in 100 who will take the
trouble to test his whole herd. But if there is a man on hand there in the district who is paid
to do this work, and it won't cost you anything, you can take your herd there and have your
testing done properly. When you do it by yourself it is only guess-work, but this other system
is much better.
Mr. Ladner : That may be my friend's way of doing it, but it is not the way I do it.
Moved by Mr. W. E. Buckingham, seconded by Mr. R. D. McKenzie,—
" That this meeting recommend that the question of the formation of cow-testing associations be strongly recommended."    .
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. F. M. Logan : I might say, before we adjourn, that there is a slight change in the
programme for to-morrow's meeting. Dr. Tolmie, who was to have been with us to-morrow, is
at the present time ill, and it is possible he may not be with us to-morrow. The Minister of
Agriculture and the Premier have promised to come up, however, and will give us a short talk.
Then Mr. Wells is going to give us more information on the growing of ensilage. He has had
very successful results in this work, and I think his information will be very valuable to everyone. And if there is any time left, the Directors have suggested that I take up a few minutes
in explaining the modern cow stable. However, I will not detain you long. I have been
doing nearly all the talking to-night. There will be the election of officers, and then Mr.
Oliver and Mr. Munro will be here with us to-morrow, and will also address the meeting.
Mr. Jno. Oliver, M.P.P.: I am afraid that part of the programme will not be carried out.
I have other engagements.
Mr. F. M. Logan : Then you will, perhaps, say a few words this evening to us.
Mr. J. Oliver, M.P.P.: You must excuse me, gentlemen. I am not in condition to address
you this evening. As a farmer, and owning considerable live stock, I have always been interested in the Live Stock and Dairying Association. All I can say this evening is that Mr.
Munro and myself came here this evening with a view to finding out what was going on for
the benefit of those interested in live stock. And I would not attempt to make a speech to
you to-night, because it would only be a disappointment. But thank you very heartily for
your invitation.
The Chairman :  Mr. Munro will be here to-morrow.
On motion the meeting here adjourned till 10 a.m. Friday, March Sth, 1907. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 17
Victoria, B. O, Sth March, 1907.
Morning   Session.
The meeting was called to order at 10 a.m.
Minutes of former meeting were read by the Secretary, and, on motion by Mr. Raymer,
seconded by Mr. King, same were adopted.
The Chairman: We have in our by-laws the order of procedure ; still, we can change
them if we like. We are supposed to go on with unfinished business, but I don't know that
we have any. Now, what really was to have been the programme for this morning was the
address by Dr. Tolmie, but he has been ill, and is still ill, and I am afraid he will not be here.
Mr. Logan is to give an address on " Cow Stalls and Barns," and so on, and I have been
requested to speak a little on "Silage." Then the Minister has signified his willingness to be
present, and the Premier said he would also come, and Mr. Munro. I know the Premier has
an engagement for a quarter to twelve, and in the meantime I suppose we could run off some
of this other business. Which will you have first ? We have not got our officers elected.
That is one of the things we have yet to do.
Mr. Collins : We might do that while we are waiting.
The Chairman : I am sorry Dr. Tolmie could not be with us this morning.
Mr. Logan : The Minister said he was very busy this morning. There were two or three
deputations to come in, but he said he would try and come up some time this morning, and
that whenever we get ready to have him to telephone him again. But at the present moment
he could not state any definite time.
Mr. Collins : I propose, Mr. Chairman, that we go on with the election of officers.
Mr. Heggie : I second that.
Motion carried.
Mr. Collins : I have great pleasure in proposing our President, Mr. Wells, to be our
President during the coming year.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : I take a great deal of pleasure in seconding that nomination. I do
not think we can have a better man than Mr. Wells for this position. He takes such an
interest in dairying, and, apart from his sentimental interest, he has been, very closely identified
with the dairying industry for some time past, and in the past has given a great deal of his
time and assistance to the Dairymen's Association, and to all matters relating to dairying, as
well as to this Department, that I feel we would be very derelict in our duty if we did not put
Mr. Wells in again as President of this Association.    (Applause.)
Mr. Buckingham : I move that the nomination close.
Mr. King : I second it.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : It is moved and seconded that the nomination be now closed.
Carried.
The Chairman (Mr. Wells): I am sure, gentlemen, I feel very grateful to you for the
confidence you have placed in me in electing me again as your President. I have certainly
tried, since I have been the President of this Association, to do the very best possible, and if
I have failed in any particular it is on account of bad judgment, or something of that kind.
My heart is in the work. I feel that the prosperity of the country lies along the lines we are
working on. And the backbone of the country, in the first place, is the farm, and the main
industry connected with the farming is the dairying. I have come to that conclusion some
time ago, and the proof of it is that the dairymen are prospering, while others remain in
somewhat of a doubtful position as regards prospering. And I am glad to be able to do
anything to assist the dairymen in that line of work. Thank you again, gentlemen, for the
nomination.    (Loud applause.)
Moved by Mr. Buckingham, seconded by Mr. Collins,—
"That Mr. George Sangster be nominated as Vice-President."    Carried.
The election of Directors resulted as follows :—
Lower Mainland—W. E. Buckingham, S. Smith; Upper Mainland—Geo. Heggie, H. W.
Raymer; Islands—J. T. Collins, Alex. Urquhart.
"tt^JMr. Raymer: There are the Auditors, Mr. President.    I beg to move that Mr. Cunningham be one of the Auditors.
Mr. Smith : I beg to move that Mr. Trapp be the other.
Moved by Mr. J. R. Anderson, seconded by Mr. Collins,—" That the nominations close."
Motion carried. L 18 British Columbia 1907
Mr. Raymer : We will now be pleased to listen to Mr. Wells.
Address by Mr. Wells on Clover Silage.
Mr. Wells : Well, gentlemen, I must tell you that I have not any set address, and I don't
intend to take up, in the first instance, very much of your time. The time is limited, and I
think the best way to get the best results would be by giving you just a short talk, and
from this talk you may be able to probably get some points on which you want to gain
information. If you do, just write it down, or bear it in mind, or ask the question right
off-hand—either way, it does not matter, so long as we get the conversation about the question
we have in hand, and get the desired information. Of course, I have a little confidence in
myself along this line, and feel that I do know something about making ensilage. If not, I
ought to, as I owned the first silo that I ever saw in Canada, and that was a good many years
ago. In 1882, I think it was, I travelled a good way to see a silo in Jefferson County, New
York. A man had two of them. He was filling them with a large straw gutter, and he would
fill first one and then the other. These silos were made of stone and plastered inside. When
I was there they were not quite full yet, but they were leaking a little, and they thought it
was a failure, and that the silage would surely spoil. Now, of course, he was mistaken in
that. The reason the silage was leaking was because there was too much dampness, too much
moisture in the silage when he put it in. I was not there to see him take it out, but I venture
to say when he took it out that his silage was smelling strong. It would be rather rank, as it
was put in too wet. No matter what time you put it in, if you put it in too wet it will have
a rank smell. Now, the next year I made a silo, a different one from the one I saw; it was
made of planks 12 feet square, and lined inside with wood and tar paper, so that it would be
tight, and ever since then I have been putting up silage, and I am satisfied that it has been
very remunerative in producing milk and butter in the winter season, for in this silage you
have a large quantity of food for your stock that you cannot get in any other way. My
regular crop of ensilage had always been corn, until a few years ago we tried clover. We had
been raising clover and trying to get clover hay. Now, that is a very doubtful proposition on
the Lower Mainland. Of course, the conditions in the Upper Country, and some other parts of
British Columbia, are not the same as prevail there. When we undertook to grow the clover
and make hay out of it, we found that a good strong crop of clover would take about four days
of the best weather we had. Now, four days of sunshine and dewy nights was what was
required—that was, if every day was bright and not cloudy. Now, supposing it comes a little
cloudy, or a little rainy, four days will not do it. When the four days are up, on the very best
conditions, you will judge that the hay will be pretty black and unsaleable and not very good.
Cattle don't like it. Of course, farmers in the Lower Mainland will understand what kind of
hay we obtained. Well, then we built another silo, and commenced putting clover in it. We
cut it up, but we found that our machinery was not sufficient to lift the clover. It is hard to
cut and hard to lift. And then we put the clover, just as it was cut by the mower, inside of
the silo. That did well, but it is difficult getting it inside and then again outside. It is
different from short cut silage, because that handles like grain ; you can do differently with it.
But we found it very difficult handling this clover, putting it inside the silo, and levelling it
around. In the square silo we had a difficulty with regard to that, as it would always spoil in
the corners, particularly the uncut clover. It seemed to be inclined to spoil around the outside.
Of late years we have commenced stacking it, and we just make a stack according to the
amount of ensilage we have, reckoning how big the bottom of it ought to be, and we carry it
as high as possible. It is heavy stuff to pitch, and we had to drive up on to something, so we
fixed a platform and drove up on to the platform, in order to get the waggon high enough, so
that we did not have to pitch very high. Later on we built a stack on the side of the hill,
and we have had the best results from that. We just cut out a square piece from the side-
hill, and then filled it in with clover. It has a great advantage in putting it off the
waggon. Now, in handling clover for silage, it is astonishing the amount of good food you
can make in a very short time with clover. You can work as many men and as many teams
as you like almost, around it, and just simply get together and spread it on to the stack, and
be sure that the edges are solid. Some of our neighbours have put up stacks, and some of our
own men when they were not superintended closely, and they have the idea that the stack
should be made to shed rain. Now, this is not necessary. And not only that, if you make it
to shed rain it will be soft on the outside, It wants to be solid on the inside, and if soft on
the outside the air gets into it, and just so much of it as is soft will spoil, and there is not the 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 19
same chances for its spoiling if it is packed solid all round. There is one thing I intended
saying to you before; that is this : There is nothing you can produce so much of, and for so
little money, on an acre of land, as you can of clover. I do not know of anything. You will
get probably just about the same amount of corn, but there is a good deal of expense in raising
corn. If you get a big crop of corn you have to manure your land heavily, and it requires, a
great deal of cultivation ; but clover, you just simply sow it. I have sowed it in the spring,
and I actually cut it three times. I sowed it this early (March 7th), and I had it come up at
once and had a beautiful crop. The first crop was a very good one, and the next one was a
very heavy one, and the third crop was a good one. I think we had 30 tons to the acre the
first year, and it was good stuff. Now, I never weighed any of it. I have never done any
scientific farming in the way of experiments and the like of that. Everything I have done
has generally been for profit. As a matter of fact, I have never caculated to a nicety, and
when I say that we had 30 tons, as I say, I did not weigh it, but that was about what we
had. And I see from the report of Mr. Sharpe's Experimental Farm, at Agassiz, he says you
can raise 30 tons to an acre with three cuttings, so that it is really the cheapest cow feed you
can raise. I am astonished more every year to see the amount of food one can raise and the
cheapness of it. You just seem to pile it up together, and you need not wait for anything.
Of course, good weather is very desirable, and it is better to choose the good weather for
making silage as it is in making hay. You have to have good weather for it, but if it is not
good weather you can put it in a silo, and the cows will eat it just the same, although it is not
sweet silage.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : That is because there is too much water in it.
Mr. Wells : Yes, either dew or rain. And if it is too green it will be sour. I would
commence a little before it would be ready to cut for hay, just when the blossoms commence
turning brown. In putting it in we cut in the morning, after the dew is off, enough to keep
the crew going until the next day. As soon as it is cut, bunch it up with a horse-rake first in
the windrow, then go lengthwise of windrow and put in bunches to keep it from drying or
bleaching. Then it is ready to put in the stack. In building the stack, be careful to keep it
level, and when you have finished cover with 8 or 10 inches of earth.
Mr. Vasey: You mean to put the earth on the top 1
Mr. Wells : On the top, yes.
Mr. Vasey : Not on the sides ?
Mr. Wells : Of course, we took advantage of the side-hill. That was an advantage. If
on the level put no earth on the sides.
Mr. Collins : You grilled out three sides of the pit, you might say ?
Mr. Wells : Yes, but could not make a stave on the side. You ought to take a hay-knife
when you are done and pare about eight inches off, right into the solid centre, and then you
don't lose any.     Pare it down with a hay-knife.
Mr. Collins : I remember that being done 25 years ago in the Old Country. Just pare
down the sides.
Mr. Smith : Get it sti*aight.
Mi-. Wells: Now, the point of advantage in all this is the getting of so much cheap food
for winter use. We don't use very much clover hay. We like to have that to feed with our
corn, but we don't have very much of it, because it is risky to try and cure it. We have never
had any miss at all with the clover silage.
Mr. Ladner : Don't you have to pack a lot of rock and weight on it 1
Mr. Wells : Ten inches of earth is better; the soil is easier to handle.
Mr. Smith: You can do without anything 1
Mr. Wells : Yes, you can, but it is better to have it covered.
Mr. Buckingham : But do you find the silage on the outside spoils quicker than that
against the bank 1
Mr. Wells : Yes, the silage against the bank does not spoil.
Mr. Collins : You must have a very dry bank, well drained 1
Mr. Wells : Yes, it is well drained ; it is clean soil all the way around. We have another
advantage, too. The bank is high enough so that we can drive along at the bottom of it.
We made a gravel track and we drive along there on that track with our waggon, and when
we come to use our silage all we have to do is to throw it off into the waggon and carry it
away for feed. Of course, different people would have different ways of feeding. This silage
we never feed in the barn.    The reason for that is, in the first place, we always have corn L 20 British Columbia 1907
silage. We succeeded, in the first place, in getting good corn silage before we did the clover.
We were putting the clover in too wet, and most people make that mistake, and then that
creates a bad smell, and I never like having anything that smells around the barn, so we have
been stacking it on the outside of the barn. Our milch cows we feed in racks ; on fine days
they are turned out in a little field close by, where there are racks placed for them. We feed
them with clover silage, and they have their noon meal out of that, and we let them have all
they want of it. And then we have a lot of dry cows and young cattle in another field ; that
has a shed and has lots of straw in it. We fill the racks with straw, and for these cattle we
carry out a waggon load of silage, just throw it on the ground, and give them one meal a day,
and the balance of their feed is straw. They are doing well. We have practiced that for a
number of years now. Of course, it would be better if it were cut up for feeding with other
feed in the stables.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : How do you take the silage off? . Do you cut it down with a knife ?
Mr. Wells : We cut it in two. For instance, we have a stack 25 feet long and about 15
feet wide.    We make three divisions in it.    That is, put in two cuts through the centre.
Mr. Vasey : Would it do to build that stack in sections ?
Mr. Wells : No; I would rather build it separately. I suppose the advantage of making
additions to your stack would be in having the first, second and third crop; you would want
to stack it at different times.
Mr. Smith : The trouble of putting new stuff on your stack is that the centre of it always
goes down before the outsides, and whatever new stuff you put on affects it. The centre of
the stack goes down first.    Isn't that what you find, Mr. Wells ?
Mr. Smith : Yes, after it starts to go into ensilage.
Mr. Wells : It wants treading well on the outside and then it will not settle in the centre.
Mr. Smith : Ours always did, but yours, being against the bank, would have a tendency
not to.    Ours was built on the level ground; we have no hill to build on.
Mr. Wells : It does not require an expert to make a stack. Of course, if you make it
good, it will save a great deal of labour, and will be better than if you made a poor stack, but
by observing these rules I think anyone can have success. I do not think there is any trouble
or any secret about it.
Mr. Buckingham : Do you think the feeding qualities of the clover ensilage are as great
as the corn ensilage ?
Mr. Wells : I think so.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : I did not quite understand the exact time you recommended cutting
the clover—when the flower is just going off?
Mr. Wells : When it has just commenced. Just the time you commence cutting ordinary
hay, or a little before. In cutting clover hay you want to get a large number of the buds off
the bloom.
Mr. Vasey : I don't know how you manage to get three crops a year.
Mr. Wells : We seldom cut three crops. We could just as well cut three crops, but we
pasture the last crop.
Mr. Collins : The last crop is not worth cutting. It is so full of water, and very poor for
making hay.
Mr. Buckingham : How long do you reckon, after cutting the first crop, you can cut the
second again.
Mr. Wells : I could not tell you that.
Mr. Smith : Just when you are done haying again—a little more than a month. Just
cut the clover first and then get through haying—five or six weeks, I think.
Mr. Wells : It comes on quick enough for the time you are ready to do it.
Mr. Vasey: Well, the third crop would not be a very big crop, I should think.
Mr. Wells : I think you could get three crops in your place all right. Of course, I would
not advise anybody, unless they tried it as an experiment, to sow it in the spring. I would
sow it in the fall, so that it gets a good start, or sow it with the crop the year before.
Mr. Collins : I find that if we sow it in the fall a great deal of it gets affected by the
frost.    February is our best month for sowing it.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : In the Upper Country they sometimes sow it on the snow, and find
that the best plan.
Mr. Wells : With the little frost we are having now, I would harrow it in pretty well.
The frost stirs the ground, you know. Mr. Collins : If it is gravelly, light soil it is likely to scorch up a little later on and get
slightly rooted, and then dry out.    That has been my experience.
Mr. Wells : Of course, they grow in the Interior fine hay and make beautiful clover hay—
or I suppose they do.    Mr. Heggie, you do make fine clover hay, do you not ?
Mr. Collins : You can't get rain in your country.
Mr. Heggie : No, we have no such luxuries as that.
Mr. Wells : Well, you make first quality of hay and have good success in growing it.
Mr. Heggie : We never have three crops in a year.
Mr. Wells : If you had irrigation you could do it.
Mr. Heggie : Yes, then we could do it, but we have not got it so far.
Mr. Wells : I think on the Lower Mainland, and probably on the Island, clover would
be a very profitable crop, and, as a matter of fact, I know everyone who has tried it so far
says it is.
Mr. Buckingham : Do you think that clover can be successfully put into a silo in the
same way that we put corn in, by cutting it up, and putting it in in the same way ?
Mr. Wells :  I think so.
Mr. Smith : I saw Mr. Evans cutting up corn at Sumas, and putting it in a silo, and his
ensilage came out splendid.
Mr. Wells : The only thing is the question of expense. Corn is a very nice thing to
handle putting it in, but clover always lies so flat and is so sticky ; it sticks to the elevators.
Mr. Heggie : Do you have to crib the bank at all 1
Mr. Wells : No. We put a log at the top and then banked it up with earth on the outside, so that would protect it; we put a log just on the edge and fastened it there.
Mr. Heggie : What kind of a bottom did you have ?
Mr. Wells : Just the earth.
Mr. Heggie : You never sloped the drainage at all ?
Mr. Wells : No ; but we were careful to have it slope around the outside so that the
water ran away from it.
Mr. Collins : The outside wall you kept dry ?
Mr. Wells : Yes ; we were careful about that. We kept on building it up until we got
so we could not pitch on any more from the waggon.
Mr. Heggie : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have listened with very much pleasure
indeed to the very able and practical address by Mr. Wells. I say " practical," because you
can easily see that Mr. Wells is speaking from actual experience, and I think his remarks are
all the more valuable on that account. I think it is only due to him that this meeting accord
him a very hearty vote of thanks for his address to-day, and I have great pleasure in moving it.
Mr. Smith : I have very much pleasure in seconding that motion, Mr. President, and 1
might say that we have been putting up ensilage for silage for many years, and there are
several points I learned from Mr. Wells' address. Little things that I noticed in putting ib
up, getting it a little wet, and one thing and another, and I think his address was very
practical.
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Wells : I am sure I am very gratified to know I have been of use to anyone here, and
I hope those of us who are doing this kind of work will talk it up to our neighbours, as we all
know we have a good thing. I have not the least hesitancy in giving it to my neighbour, and
have done so in a good many cases.    (Applause.)
Mr. Buckingham : In our district we seed with timothy and clover a good deal. Taking
the first crop of that seeding, would it make a good crop for making ensilage ?
Mr. Wells : It is not as good as clover, but it will make good ensilage.
Mr. Heggie : How long can you crop clover, handling it in that way—that is, cutting it
two and three times a year ?
Mr. Wells : About thi-ee years.
Mr. Heggie : Have you ever tried alfalfa ?
Mr. Wells: I have tried alfalfa. We have a field—we are pasturing it. We did not
consider it was turning out well. It looked well for a while. We thought it was for want
of alfalfa culture, and I was wondering if that was what ailed it. It turned a little yellow
after a while, but it is growing well, though it is only a third enough to cover the ground. Of
course, it is a beautiful pasture and we don't disturb it. The cattle like it as well as the other
grass. L 22 British Columbia 1907
Mr. Smith :  I think you can get more pasture on red clover than alfalfa.
Mr. Heggie : Not in our country.
Address by the Hon. the Minister of Agriculture.
Hon. Capt. Tatlow, Minister of Agriculture, on entering the room, was greeted with loud
applause.
The Chairman : We have now Capt. Tatlow with us, gentlemen. I am sorry that we did
not have a larger attendance this morning. Last evening we had a much larger attendance,
but a great many have left for home. But we are very glad for you to be present with us, and
we would be very pleased to have you address us. Capt. Tatlow will now address you, gentlemen.    (Applause.)
Hon. Capt. Tatlow (Minister of Agriculture) : Mr. Wells and gentlemen, I am very
pleased to have an opportunity of meeting you. I consider it is a very good thing to have this
chance afforded us once a year, and perhaps it would be even better to meet oftener, to discuss
some of these matters which are of great interest to your industry, and which we, perhaps,
may not ourselves have a technical knowledge of ; but with your advice I have no doubt we
will be able to work out to the ultimate good of the industry itself throughout the Province.
I have felt that in the past we have given our efforts so much along the line of Horticulture
that it might be thought we were neglecting, or not doing as much as we ought for, the other
branches. I am glad to say that we now have the horticultural interests fairly on the way,
and I think we will be able in the future to do more in other directions.    (Applause.)
About a year ago, as a result, I think, of a meeting we held in New Westminster, Mr.
Fisher was good enough to co-operate with us to a certain extent in the matter of dairying and
live stock, and the result of it was that Mr. Logan was sent out here as an employee of the
Dominion Government, but he was to be placed in such a position that we could utilise his
services as far as he was able to give them to us. That arrangement went on for a year, and
I think it worked out very satisfactorily, excepting that I do not know whether it could have
been continued, because the work was increasing, and it was thought it might be better if the
live stock and creamery interests should be in different hands. To-day we have come to the
parting of the ways, because the Dominion Government think they can utilise Mr. Logan to
better advantage, and I understand their idea is to move him about throughout the Provinces
of Alberta and Saskatchewan, and to look after the interests of the live stock in British
Columbia, which would, of course, mean that we would only get a portion of his services
here, and that time would be too short to devote any of it to the creamery matters. Recognising that fact, I think we must take the responsibility upon ourselves of appointing a Creamery
Inspector. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") I will recommend to the Executive this appointment,
and I have no doubt but that it will be carried out. But before doing so we would like to hear
your views on the matter. I notice the Central Farmers' Institute passed a resolution that
they would like to retain the services of Mr. Logan, and if this is satisfactory to you I have no
doubt it will be satisfactory to the Government.
I note an increase has been made in the production of butter during the last two or three
years, and it is very gratifying indeed, and, as Mr. Logan points out, we should be able to do
about four times as much as we are doing at the present time in this regard. The production
is slightly under $500,000 a year now, and he gave me a report a short while ago in which he
stated that he thinks it can be brought up to two million dollars at least. And as we are
importing a great deal of that amount, there is no reason why we should not make a little
effort to do it, and even if it means a little expenditure it will be best in the long run, and
will keep a lot of our money from going out of the Province. There is the commercial side to
be considered, and the Province is at all times ready to give its assistance to anything which
is for its benefit.
I would like to see advantage more largely taken with reference to the Statutes we have
on our books. That is as regards aids to creameries. I think we have from $10,000 to $11,000
to invest in creameries, and whenever an institution of that kind starts out, equipped with the
proper number of cows, we are only too glad to give out loans to help it along, and I think
there should be more creameries started. Although it is very gratifying to know that there
have been three new creameries during the past year, and the production has been so largely
increased, there is great room for improvement.
I do not know that I have anything more to say. I must apologise for the absence of the
Premier, who is engaged with a very important deputation. He would have liked to have
been with you, and he told me to express his regrets. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 23
As I say, we will be very glad indeed, after this meeting is over, to take up any matters
in the way of resolutions, if you will send them on to us, and we will give them every attention.
And now that things are in a better condition, we will spend a few dollars on anything that
we find to be in the best interests of this institution and of the Province.    (Applause.)
The Chairman : Would the Secretary kindly read the resolution passed in regard to the
question of an Inspector.
Secretary read resolution as follows :—
"Moved by Mr. S. Smith, seconded by Mr. H. W. Raymer: Resolved, That owing to
the increase in the dairy industry of British Columbia and the importance of producing milk,
cream and butter of the first quality, we would recommend that Mr. F. M. Logan be appointed
Dairy Inspector for the Province, and would suggest that his entire time be devoted to this
purpose."
Hon. Capt. Tatlow : I shall have much pleasure in placing that before my colleagues and
giving it my earnest support.    (Applause.)
Mr. Smith : There is just one thing in the Directors' report that we overlooked yesterday
viz. : Putting in the dairy products the milk and ci'eam that is being supplied to the cities by
the farmers. Now, there is one outfit in Vancouver alone that sold last year about $75,000
worth of milk and cream ; sweet milk and sweet cream in Vancouver; and there are several
of them.    I think we overlooked that in putting in the Dairy product.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : These are for butter entirely. Tbe product of the dairies, apart
from butter, is a separate matter, and very difficult to arrive at. The output of butter is
much more easily attained, and the returns asked for are entirely for it. There is no doubt
but that the demand for sweet milk and sweet cream is very great. And then there is the
cheese.
Mr. Raymer : I think it would be well for this Association to take up what Mr. Smith
has mentioned, as the product of the dairy does include cream and milk. And it might be
well to include it in the progressiveness of the industry, and report on the quality of the cream
and the milk sold in the city. It will show an increase in the business, and you might just as
well take that in as butter and cheese.
Mr. Buckingham : Just to get an idea of the amount of milk that is used in the Province.
Two years ago I went to the Government to try and get an approximate amount of the milk
that was used in the City of Vancouver, and at that time it figured up to 2,000 gallons a day.
And during the summer months—about six months last year—the dairy with which I was
connected bad an average daily output of 1,000 gallons. This will give you an idea of the
increased output of Vancouver City. I do not say that that is milk alone, but milk and cream
—that netted an average of 1,000 gallons a day for six months in the summer months in
Vancouver. Now, when we consider this, the butter output of the Province is not at all
representative of the dairy products of British Columbia. And, I think, if we were to get at
the supply of milk and cream, and at the value of that, you will find the product is far in
excess of what those returns show.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : These returns are only the returns for the creameries. There is no
private made butter in that.    Otherwise the amount would be doubled.
Mr. Buckingham: That was my contention last night. The dairies that supply milk and
cream to the cities need as much inspection as the dairies and creameries that are supplying
the milk or the cream to the creameries.
Mr.  Vasey : The Health Officers get after you fellows.
Mr. Buckingham : I am ready for the Health Officer at any time. And I say, as
President of our Association, that when a patron of that Association does not comply with the
regulations laid down by the Provincial Government, I say, let those regulations be enforced.
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") And I say, hew to the line, let the chips fall where they are made.
That has been my contention right along. But I do say this : let the Provincial Government
handle those outside of the cities, and not allow the City authorities to interfere with the
officers of the Provincial Government.
Mr. J. R. Anderson: As far as I know, I do not think that the City officers have ever
interfered with the Provincial officers.
Mr. Buckingham : We had a case last fall where the City authorities went out into two
districts and took samples of milk, and brought them in and had them analysed, and brought
those men up to Court, and in one instance it cost one man over $300 to get through with that
case, and then it was thrown out of Court after all.    And the expenses of all these cases cost the farmers over $500, and they found out after they were through with them that they had
no jurisdiction whatever to bring the action.    I say that was interfering to the extreme.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : We never had any complaint made that the officers were interfering with each other.
Mr. King : Well, the cities have a Milk Inspector ?
Mr. Buckingham : Yes.
Mr. King : Isn't it his duty to inspect the milk in the cities as it comes in ?
Mr. Buckingham : Yes.
Mr. King : He has no right to go to the dairy ?
Mr. Buckingham : No, he has no right to go to the dairy. They went up to Langley and
took the sample and brought it down, and when it came into Court they did not know whose
milk it was or whose cans they took it from. Some one told them it was Smith and Jones,
and when they came into Court they could not tell whose milk it was, and yet they brought
these men down there, and put them to the expense of bringing their witnesses with them.
Mr. Smith : They knew whose it was, but could not swear to it.
Mr. Buckingham : No, they did not know whose can they took it from.
Mr. J. R. Anderson: You see you cannot prevent anything like that. Anyone can
institute proceedings of that kind. Cities can institute proceedings of that kind, and it could
not be called interference with Provincial officers.
Mr. F. M. Logan : There is one matter I would like to mention before we adjourn. I
would like to know if any of you gentlemen have any suggestions to make in the way of
improving the attendance at this Association. I sent out some 800 notices, and sent notices
to all the papers in the Province, practically advising that this meeting would take place on
this date, and here we have only a handful of men present out of a thousand or more who are
interested in the dairy business. Now, in some of the other Provinces—take, for instance,
Ontario—they have at a Dairymen's Convention 200 to 400 people. The farmers from the
country will come in, and they employ the best authority they can to speak on the different
dairying subjects. Now, I would like to hear the opinions of some of you gentlemen present
as to who it would be better to employ to address you next year. Perhaps you can get some
experts from Oregon or Washington, and have them talk on different subjects of interest to
dairymen. And I would like to know whether we could hold our meeting in any more central
place, in order to get a greater interest taken in these meetings. It seems to me that our
meeting is very, very small for the number of men who are interested in the business. And
I would like to hear some suggestions from those present as to how we can improve this condition of affairs.    Perhaps a meeting in Vancouver or Westminster would be more central.
Mr. Raymer: Well, really, this is the smallest meeting I have ever come to of the Dairymen's Association.
Mr. J. T. Collins : You must remember that last night we had a good many.
Mr. Raymer : It was a fairly good meeting. But you must remember that the Farmers'
Institute delegates usually attend these meetings. I think if this meeting came immediately
after the Farmers' Institute meeting it would be better.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : There is this to be said about a meeting of this kind : it is almost
necessary that it should be held where the Ministers are accessible. With regard to Mr.
Logan's suggestion as to asking people of note who are interested in dairying to attend, it
might have a very great beneficial influence on the attendance of the meetings.
Mr. Buckingham : Do you think it would make the attendance any larger if it were held
before the Institute meetings ?
Mr. J. R. Anderson : The idea is that the Institute meetings shall take place before the
House meets, to bring in their resolutions. Of course the Dairymen's meeting might take
place a day or so before.
Mr. Collins : I do not think you would get so many. I think this time a great many
were obliged to get away before the end of the week.
Mr. Heggie : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, while I sympathise with Mr. Logan's complaint
about the non-attendance of members of the Association at the meeting, I do not think that
his suggestion about importing noted dairymen would fill the bill. I take it that the same
course applies in dairying as it does in fruit, or any other line of farming. Now, I have had
some experience, and I have seen meetings where men such as Prof. Lake were to speak, whom
we all know as one of the best men we have had to talk to us on the fruit industry—I have
seen it well advertised that he was to address these meetings, and they were very, very poorly 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 25
attended indeed. And I have seen the very same thing with dairy meetings up country; you
could not get them together. I don't know why. But I have an idea that the advent of the
appointment of a Dairy Inspector who will go around the Province, and to the different districts
in the Province, and look into the interests of the dairying, will perhaps do a great deal more
than importing noted men. We have noted men right here in this Province, men making a
success of dairying, and those are the men we want to hear from. I know up in our country
we have men right alongside of us that we go a great deal more on than we do on men
from the East. With all respect to Mr. Anderson, as he has done his best to get capable men,
at the same time I see that they are not acquainted with the conditions such as we have in
this Province, and I think we can get far more good by looking over our neighbour's fence
and going and talking to him than we can in listening to these men that are brought out from
the East. I think we can look for a better attendance in the future if we get this appointment
of a Dairy Inspector to go through.
Mr. Ladner : I am really very sorry to see so little, interest taken in dairying matters, and
this small attendance. Now, gentlemen, I think it is pretty well known that the dairying
industry improves the land instead of impoverishing it When we grow grain and ship it off,
we impoverish the land all the time, but the more dairymen we get the richer the land is.
And we should get more young and old people as well to take more interest in the dairy
industry, because the dairy industry will improve the land. And I think the old and young
should go into the dairy industry with a will and stop the importation of butter and cheese
coming into this country, and by doing so we will improve our land at the same time. There
should be something done to interest the people in this industry.
Mr. King : Mr. Chairman, I think that is a very good suggestion that has been made,
that some scheme might be brought forward that will interest the dairymen of this Province.
The fact is evident to us that those who are interested in the manufacture of butter, who
occupy their time in the butter business, are not interested in the general work of dairying in
this Province. If they were, we would see them at the meetings, at the annual meetings of
the Dairymen's Association. That is very evident. It has been asked, What are we going to
do to interest the dairymen in the dairying industry of this Province in general 1 At the
present time they are only interested in their own special dairy, or their own creamery district.
That is as I take it. If they were interested in the work of the Province, we would see them
here to assist in that work. And since I have been a member of the Association I must say
there has been a lack of attendance, or interest manifested by the dairymen and the creamery-
men in the Province in the work of the Association. And it is the work of the Association
to advance the interests of dairying and creamery throughout the Province. Now, it does
seem to me that the appointment of an Inspector of Dairies who will give his whole time to
the dairying interests of the Province will have a tendency to interest the dairymen, and put
a little enthusiasm into them. That is what we want, a little enthusiasm. They are interested as far as their pockets are concerned, but they are not at all interested or enthusiastic
in the general work throughout the Province. And it seems to me that that will be one of the
most important duties of the Dairy Instructor and Inspector, to make a change and a revelation
in this respect. And if Mr. Logan is going to engage in that work, it seems to me that he will
have his hands full.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : I move the adjournment of the meeting until 2 o'clock.
Mr. Raymer: I second it.    Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned till 2 p.m.
Afternoon  Session.
The meeting was called to order at 2 p. m. by the Chairman. Minutes of the previous
meeting were read by the Secretary and adopted.
Mr. F. M. Logan: There have been two resolutions handed in here, Mr. President.
One is (reading) :—
" Moved by Mr. S. Smith, seconded by Mr. H. W. Raymer,—
"That the Dairymen's Association respectfully request the Government to pass a Veterinary Association Act to raise the standard of the veterinary profession, and at the same time
protect the stockmen." L 26 British Columbia 1907
Mr. S. Smith : I may say, in reference to that, at the present time there are a lot of
young fellows who take up the Scranton Correspondence School course, and succeed in passing
their examinations in this veterinary work after two or three or four months' writing, and
then go to work and sign themselves as doctors, and come around to treat your cattle, without,
as a matter of fact, knowing anything about it. Now, my idea is that I do not think any
man should be allowed to come around and doctor your cattle without first having had experience. I do not think he is competent to give you any advice unless he has had the actual
experience, and that is the reason I am asking the Covernment to pass this Act, so that no
one can come around and doctor your cattle unless he has had the necessary actual experience
and is qualified for this work.
Mr. J. R. Anderson: I may say, in connection with that, that is a matter that has been
brought up several times. There has been correspondence regarding it, on this very subject
that Mr. Smith is now bringing up. One gentleman applied for a position in the Government
as a veterinarian in a certain part of the Province, who had obtained his diploma in the
manner described, after two or three weeks' correspondence. Of course, that is out of the
question, and there must be a necessary Bill to provide against it, and there is one being now-
prepared by some of the veterinary surgeons and is before the Ministers now, and I think this
is a very proper resolution to pass.
Mr. Raymer : I seconded the resolution, and as the seconder I believe that the practising
veterinary surgeons in the Province are applying for an Act incorporating them as an Association, the same as nearly all the other professions in the Province have, and I think, as Mr.
Smith says, it is necessary that an Act of this sort should be passed, and I am heartily in
accord with the resolution.
Motion carried.
Mr. J. R. Anderson : It would be as well to have a copy of the resolution submitted to
the Minister.
Mr. Logan :  I have another resolution here (reading) :—
" Moved by Mr. S. Smith, seconded by Mr. H. W. Raymer,—
" That this Association is of the opinion that more effective work could be accomplished
by the veterinary surgeons, who are acting under the authority of Contagious Diseases of
Animals Act, if the Act were amended to provide for the appointment of one man as Chief
Inspector, and the others on the staff as assistants, and would suggest that Dr. F. S. Tolmie
be appointed Chief Inspector."
Motion carried.
The Chairman :  Mr. Gibbons is here to address us.
Mr. Logan : I might say I spoke to Mr. Gibbons a week or so ago, asking him to give us
a talk on the testing and weighing of the milk of the individual cows. He has been doing
this for sometime and he has found it very beneficial to himself, and it might be interesting to
the members of the different Associations to hear his remarks. Mr. Gibbons is fully prepared
for a talk with you on this subject, and I know it will be of interest to those who are here.
Mr. Gibbons : Mr. Chairman, Mr. Logan asked me to give my experience as regards the
testing of cows, so I have prepared a short paper on it, but I am afraid, before so many old
dairymen as are here to-day, my remarks will be somewhat commonplace.
The Chairman : The dairymen always want to learn.
Paper Read by Mr. Gibbons.
Two things are essential to successful dairying—a ready market and good cows. We may
be said here, I suppose, to have a ready market. As to getting good cows, there are two ways
to do that; one is to buy them, which is next to impossible. I met a man the other day who
told me he started out to buy them by attending sales. One sale he went to there were two
cows that took his fancy, and other people's as well, for he had to give $125 each for them,
and when he got them home he found one was no good, so sold it for $50, thus making the
other cow $200, and that is too much for most of us, at any rate, to give. The other way to
get good cows is to breed them, which takes too long, but we can't help that, so we must buy
a dairy bull and test our cows.
I was led to keep a record by constantly seeing it recommended in " Hoard's Dairyman."
I will explain the methods I adopted in keeping my record. 1st. I procured a slate and ruled
it into lines and spaces with the end of a file, sufficient to put down at each milking the weight 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 27
of each cow's milk and enter it in a book at the end of each week. I reckon that this takes
one minute per cow each day. About the last of the month I place a small glass jar behind
each cow and take a sample of milk immediately after milking, from one morning's and one
evening's milk. This I test by the Babcock Test and multiply by the weight of the milk to
find my monthly record. I reckon that this takes 15 minutes per cow per month. It is then
quite easy to total up at the end of the year and see just what each cow has produced. One
is thus able to see which cows to keep and which to get rid of.
When I started keeping a record I found that a cow which I considered one of the worst
was in reality the most profitable, owing to her giving 6 % of milk. No cow should be kept
that is incapable of producing 300 lbs. of butter in the year, with good feed, and if she freshens
in the fall.
I am doubtful whether a 2-year-old heifer giving in a day 20 lbs. of 4 % milk should be
kept.    If she gives 25 lbs. of 4 % milk, keep her most certainly.
I should say to every cow-keeper, keep a record. Besides telling you which is the best
cow, it will make you study more closely everything about a cow and make her more interesting. I may say that I began cow-keeping in absolute ignorance, and my first efforts left much
to be desired, but it was reading " Hoard's Dairyman " and keeping a record that enabled me
to show some improvement each year.
In 1899 I kept on an average 9.5 cows, and they produced 2,432 lbs. of butter in the
year, amifcaverage of 256 lbs. per cow. In 1906 I kept, on an average, 7 cows, and they produced 2,280 lbs. of butter, an average of 326 lbs. per cow. I think this shows how important
it is to know what each cow is doing. The figures that I have given are taken from the
creamery returns, but in 1906, in addition, I used 6,556 lbs. of milk for feeding calves and
other purposes. This is equal to 260 lbs. of butter, which makes my average 364 B)s. per cow
per year, which is equal, at 27.3c. per lb., to $99.30 per cow, exclusive of skim milk.
I may say, with regard to the Babcock testor, I first saw it advertised in a book, and I
wrote for one and had it sent me. When I gob it I found there was some sulphuric acid had
to be used in connection with it, and I knew it was kind of dangerous stuff to use, and it was
not fully explained, and it was some months before I tried to have it explained, but when I
did I found it very easy indeed to handle. That is one reason why some people do not care
to experiment with it, but if it is once done for them they will see how easy it is and they
will do it.
Mr. Logan: I did not catch your average per cow for the first year.
Mr. Gibbons : That was not the first year; that was in 1899, The average per cow was
256 lbs., and in 1906 it was 326 lbs.
Mr. Logan : Without counting the milk ?
Mr. Gibbons : Yes, which I added on, and after it was added on it came to 364 lbs.
Mr. Logan : That is a very good average, I should say. Of course, the difficulty is to get
good cows.
Mr. Gibbons : When I first started I found that I had- only two cows that were worth
keeping, and I got a bull, and it happened to be a pretty good one. The calves had much
better bags, and the teats were placed properly on the bags. It is a great difficulty to get a
good bull.    Very often you may have a good one and you don't know that you have it.
Mr. Ladner : I was just going to ask him what kind of a breed he keeps.
Mr. J. T. Collins : I was just going to tell you the breed. It is the same breed that you
are in favour of. Now, I think the last speaker hits it on the head when he talks of good
bulls. Now, I may say that I am only keeping one-third of the cows I used to, and I am
making double the butter—I forgot what I was going to say—that is, the cows I am keeping
are Jerseys, of course.
Mr. Ladner : I am surprised at that gentleman, with all his knowledge, keeping any such
a breed as that. It may give you a little more milk, but when you get through with the milk,
what is it worth ?    Go and get through with them and buy some Shorthorns.
Mr. J. T. Collins : Talking about Shorthorns—I am speaking now about 30 years ago.
At that time my father was keeping Shorthorns, and I can assure you it took two cows to keep
one calf. Yet some of these cows sold for £100, and they could not keep their own calves. I
quite admit that there are two breeds of Shorthorns, one for milking and one that is good from
a butcher's standpoint. At the same time, I have had a good deal to do with Shorthorns
before I came out here, but I never saw a Shorthorn that would come up to a Jersey in the
matter of butter-making. L 28 British Columbia 1907
The Chairman : Now, gentlemen, I am sure that the paper which was read by Mr. Gibbons
was a very good paper, and is a paper that should be very useful to us. It shows what can be
done by just taking hold of things right. Now, with regard to the testor, my opinion is that
progressive farmers who are ambitious and anxious to get to the front will not wait for the
Dominion Government, but will get in and buy a testor for themselves, as Mr. Ladner and Mr.
Gibbons have done. They have not waited for the Dominion Government to come along, but
have taken hold of this work themselves. It seems a pity that men of ambition should not be
assisted, however, by the Dominion Government. We would get there much quicker, and take
a shorter cut. I think that the proposition we put forward last night is all right. Now there
are a great many people, as has been stated here, that do not get interested in us and our
work. They, perhaps, may only want to get in competition with others to stir them up a bit,
and if they have an Association they may get interested and come in to it in order to compete
with the others, if only for the fun of it at first, and that.will bring others into it. They then
begin testing their cows and see whether their cows are as good as the other man's, or a little
better, and in that way they will find out. And what we want is to bring this matter before
the people, and I am sure we all feel very grateful to Mr. Gibbons for his paper.
Mr. Buckingham : I am sure Mr. Gibbons's paper has been very interesting to us, and I
have very much pleasure in moving a vote of thanks to Mr. Gibbons for his very able paper,
and I would ask that it be spread on the minutes of this Association and published.
Mr. King : I have great pleasure in seconding that motion. I am sure it corltained a
great deal of valuable information, and it shows the necessity for dairymen to weed out their
herd of cows and keep only the good. If they don't, they will have on their hands a lot of
cattle that are only an expense to them. And with respect to the breeds, I am not in a position to say which is best. Everyone seems to have their own favourite breed, and Mr. Ladner
would not do with anything but a Shorthorn.
Mr. Ladner : Oh, no ; you are wrong. Did I say that 1 I said if you want a good
animal you have to get a Shorthorn.
Mr. King : Others won't have anything but a Holstein, and others like the Jerseys.
Now, there is only one way of finding out the kind to get, and that is by testing. And I was
veiy glad to see that a decision was arrived at last night to recommend the formation of these
Testing Associations, and invite the Dominion Government to send along the Testers and
and Instructors, and I am sure the result will be a great deal more valuable to the dairymen
of this Province than we have any idea of at the present time.
Motion carried.
Mr. Gibbons : I am very much obliged to you, gentlemen. I do not know that there is
anything more I have to say.
The Chairman : Now, gentleman, an adjournment, of course, is always in order. For
my part, I would really like to have a discussion on that modern cow-stall by Mr. Logan.
Mr. Smith : I think it would be a good thing to have Mr. Logan address us now.
Address on Model Cow Stall.
Mr. F. M. Logan : I don't wish, gentlemen, to detain the meeting very long. I might,
probably, take five or ten minutes explaining the principal features of it.
I may say, gentlemen, in going around the country I would find that not one man in ten
has his stable arranged so that he can keep it as clean as it is possible to be kept, if the cows are
either tied by their neck or between two stakes. Now, that is really a cruel way of tying them.
This is something which should never be kept in use, because it is altogether too severe for
the cow, and does not give her as much freedom as she should have. Then if you tie a cow
with a chain around her neck, that chain can slip back and forth nearly two feet; it can come
up to her horns and back to her shoulders. And unless there is something built to prevent it,
a cow tied by the chain can step forward on the platform too far, or she can step back into or
over the gutter. I have gone into the stable and found cows standing away over the gutter
and the walk would be so dirty you would hardly be able to get along it. Now, by this
arrangement the cow is not tied by the neck at all. She has a stall by herself, and the fender
in front does not allow her getting through them, and this chain at the rear prevents her stepping too far back into the gutter. If you tie them by the head they will step back into the
gutter, and when the cow lies down the dirt will get all over her udder, and when you start to
milk her you will find that a lot of this dirt is falling off into your pail of milk. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 29
If you have a cow that is shorter than the average, all you have to do is to move the
fender back, and that makes her stand back by the chain, and she drops everything into the
gutter. And you can always regulate the length she is to stand back by this fender in front.
If you tie them by the neck, you have to go in and untie each cow to let them out. But all
you have to do here is to walk up by the cow and pull up that pin (indicating on model) and
the cow will soon learn to open her gate herself. The cow in this stall would come out this
gate, and the cow in the stall next to that would come out this gate, and instead of backing
over the gutter she steps over it. The ordinary cow, when you unfasten her, will back into
the gutter and get her feet dirty, and she drags all that dirt along the walk behind. But in
this way she backs up into that corner and steps out into the gutter, and you can go along and
unfasten 15 or 20 cows in the same time that it would take you to unfasten two or three by
the other methods.
Very often the cows come in very wet after being out in the rain or a shower, and when
you go alongside of them and tie them up with a chain you are very wet yourself before you
get 10 cows tied up, but with this new idea all you have to do is to walk behind them and
fasten the chain. And in this way the cow is much more comfortable, and you will find gives
much better results.
Then, again, in going throughout the different stables I find there is not one manger in
ten stables that you could call clean. Usually I find a lot of old dirt in the corners of the
manger, and.old roots that, perhaps, have been there a year or more in some cases. I
went into a horse stable and some of the hay in the manger, I am sure, was a year old, tending
to breed disease and vermin among the horses. Now, to overcome having your food left in the
corners of the manger for so long a time as I have mentioned, the best way is to make a long
trough. And when you want to clean the manger all you have to do is to walk along the
front and pull up these different partitions (indicating on model), and you see you have no
corners left in the manger. You have one long, straight trough then, and all you have to do
is to walk along the front and take a broom and sweep from one manger to the other, and in
that way have your manger perfectly clean. And you can do it in quarter of the time that it
takes to clean the manger with this other kind of a partition in it. In this way it is not
difficult to keep clean, and a partition between each cow is certainly desirable, because if you
have two cows standing together, and one a good deal larger than the other, she will go and
get the other cow's food.
I think that is all I have to say about the stall, unless you have some questions to ask.
All there is is one pair of hinges to each stall, and this chain behind, which can be bought
for 15 cents, so it is not an expensive stall, and anyone who is at all a carpenter can make it.
This arrangement is simple, just a wooden roller there, and these braces can be wooden. The
whole thing is simple but effective. A good many who have seen it say they think it is the
best stall that has ever been put on the market. I have been told that by some practical men
who keep cows.
I might just say a word or two on the barn plan. There is a bulletin there that anyone
can have who cares to take one. Now, in the East they used to think the bank barn was the
only proper kind of a barn to build, but there are several objections to that kind of a barn,
and tbe principal one is that it is not properly lighted. It is difficult, if you have a barn 30
or 40 feet wide by 70 or 80 feet long, to have it properly lighted. And if you keep the cattle
in the basement you have to get the light from the side clear into the centre of that barn, and
there are one or two sides of your barn that will not be lighted at all. All the sun has to
come from two sides usually, and very often the barn is placed so that very little sunshine
comes from those two sides, so that the centre of the barn is practically always dark. I have
been in some of those bank barns in the middle of the day, and you could scarcely see to do
the work. By building the main barn for your hay, and then building off " L's " from the
main barn like this, something in that fashion (indicating model), you have these stalls lighted
on three sides, so that the ends are pointed towards the south. The morning sun strikes the
east side, and at noon it is around here, and in the afternoon it is around on this side, so you
have the sunlight around the stable all the time. I may say that the most up-to-date stablemen are realising the benefit of sunlight. It will do more to kill germs than anything you
can possibly get. Spraying or anything else will not kill like the sunlight. Fifteen minutes in
the sun will kill a germ like tuberculosis, and the more sunlight you get into your barn the better.
Then tt we is another feature in connection with this. Mr. Wells has the most excellent-
bank barn I have ever seen.    Still, he has 70 or 80 head of cattle all in one room; and should L 30 British Columbia 1907
contagious disease be carried there by one of his animals, the whole 80 cattle are exposed to
that disease, simply because they are all in that one room. But here you have diffei'ent " L's "
off the main barn, and you can isolate your cattle, and that is a feature of main importance.
Then another bad feature is keeping the hay or grain directly over the stock. Odours
from the manure and the breath of the cattle go up through the feed, and it certainly does not
do it very much good. But here, if you have your feed in your main barn and your stock out
in the "L's," that does not happen at all, because all those bad odours are kept from the feed.
Then if you have dusty hay or straw, by having that kept above your stock, when you bring
it down through a shute to feed the stock, the dust goes all over the stable. I know at the
college barn at Guelph the stable was filled so full of dust that they had to build regular shutes
with canvass extending right down to the floor. And I may say very often bad flavours to the
milk may be accounted for in this particular way, just owing to the dusty hay.
Then another feature of this barn is that the frame of it is a good deal cheaper than the
old-fashioned kind, because in this you do away with any cross-ties. I used to build the frame
barns in my earlier days, and I know something about the expense of them. A barn 80 feet
long by 30 or 40 feet wide would take a man three to four weeks to build; and then you
wculd want so many men to raise it. But this kind of a barn, you can take all your planks
and have them sawn into shape at the mill, and then when you want to raise your barn, all
you have to do is to spike them together and raise them up like rafters. And I guarantee
that three men can spike these planks together and raise them in two days, instead of spending weeks to raise a barn, and you have done away with the cross-ties, which always interfere
with the hay. And by flooring these over, if you are putting in or taking out your hay, you
can always have your waggon right alongside your hay press. The cost of this is not very
great.    In fact, it is a great deal less than the ordinany barn.
Now, gentlemen, I will not take up any more of your time, but if there are any questions
you would like to ask I will try to answer them. But, I think, if any of you have any idea
of building a barn it would be well to look into this plan. These stalls can be put into your
old stables very cheaply, too. I think $3 or $4 a stall would be all they would cost. Mr.
Wells has used a similar stall to this for some time, and he can tell you it is very satisfactory.
Thank you, gentlemen, for listening.
Mr. Gibbons : Have you any drawings of this stall ?
Mr. Logan : Yes, they are in this bulletin, and then I have blue prints which show the
size of the stall and the timbers, and so on.     I can get the blue prints struck off;   they cost
tytj  cL SGC
The Chairman : I might say, with regard to barn building, I coincide with Mr. Logan in
a great many instances. There are a great many good points about his barn. Of course, I
have a barn that is not quite perfect, but I think it is pretty near perfection.
Mr. J. T. Collins : It is the best in British Columbia, anyway.
The Chairman : Most people claim it is a perfect barn. Of course, I know where there
are a few imperfections in it. I made quite a study of barn building, and when you come to
look at it there are very few people in British Columbia that have been able to build a $4,000
barn. X"ou will find a picture of this barn on page 6 of the bulletin. Now, I could not build
that barn to-day for $4,000. The lumber, I suppose, is double the cost, and it may be more.
A man, yesterday, told me he paid $45 a thousand for grooved and tongued lumber flooring.
I had no idea it was so dear as that. However, I dare say it has fully doubled what I paid
for mine.
Mr. Smith : Nine years ago you could buy it for $9.50 on the scow, and to-day you have
to pay $18.
The Chairman : I paid $10 for the rough lumber and $15 for the dressed for this barn.
WTell, the best point about this barn that strikes me is that you can put it up in sections.
Very few men want to put up a $4,000 barn, and with this barn you can build it just as you
want it; build a cow stable first, and build a stack beside it and a silo, and that will do you
pretty well for a year, and then when you are ready to put up the main part of the barn you
can do so. If you don't want to put up the whole of the stable, you can put up a part of it.
You can make it long or short. You can take a short piece of it and put it up, and then
when you make a couple of thousand dollars more, or a thousand dollars more, you can start
in to build the main part of the barn to hold the hay; and then when you have increased the
stock and want to have more stalls, you can build another piece, and so on, and you have the
thing perfected.   You may be ten years in getting it all built, but then there is no loss.   Now,. 7 Ed. 7 Dairymen's Association. L 31
in building this other class of a barn, you have to do the most of it at once, so you are at a
loss. That is a great advantage to the adaptability of this barn to this Province, and I am
glad that Mr. Logan has got out this plan, for when the farmer comes to see it and realises
that he can build his barn in that way, and not have to build the whole barn at once, it will
be a great benefit to him. Now, I see another thing when looking over this plan. Mr. Logan
has it shown, of course, as a complete barn, and finished. Now, you need not finish it. You
can put up the outside. You are building a stable, for instance. You can build it half the
length or the whole length, and you need not put the ceiling in if you are not ready. It is
better finished, of course, but you can finish that in another year, or you can leave it like
most people's barns inside, with a little too much ventilation. The point he makes about the
barn being properly lighted, I think, is an excellent point. You cannot have too much light
in a barn. This barn of mine, of course, I think it is pretty near perfection. I have often
told my wife to take her sewing and come down to the barn and be comfortable there, as it is
just as comfortable there as it is in the house—no bad smells, and light and comfortable.
But it is easier getting light in a narrower barn. Now, I think I have said enough on that.
With regard to the cow stall, I think I told some of you the other day that there was a way
of keeping cows absolutely clean. Now, most people are somewhat staggered at that. They
don't seem to think it is quite right; but such is the case, and if you go into my barn you
will find that they are practically all absolutely clean. The stall in my barn is very much like
the one Mr. Logan has described to you. This one is improved on a little and is better in
some cases, but perhaps may not be so good in some respects. Has this one been tried, Mr.
Logan ?
Mr. Logan : I know there have been some put in, but I have not heard yet what the
results are.
The Chairman : Of course, the way to do in building anything you are not dead sure of
is to put in a stall and try it. See if it works. I stalled my barn all through, and then I
had to put in stalls like this, or very nearly like them, and I never had anything so satisfactory.
Mr. J. T. Collins : You have the chain at the back ?
The Chairman : Yes, just the same, with just a little exception. The manger of my stall
is movable, and the fender here, instead of swinging back and forward, is stationary. Now,
if you keep your cow back against that chain, there is no danger of there being any droppings.
Now, to my mind, I am a little afraid—I do not know whether I am right or not, but I am
going to try it—I am a little afraid that that manger might not be perfection on account of
being stationary, and the upper part moving. Mr. Logan will excuse me for criticising it,
and I would advise everyone, if they are putting a stall in, to put one in like that. I would
put one in like that and see if it will work. My opinion is, if you keep a cow back when she
is standing with her head up, you will have her in the right place; but then, half the time she
is eating and she has her head down and will go a little forward. Now, if that is the case, it
will not always be clean. I may be wrong, but I will experiment with it, and see how it-
works out. I changed all my stalls, and I thought I had probably struck it. It was a little
better, but it did not meet the case. The cows, when they are tied by the neck—well, she
can walk three feet when tied like that with a chain.     They do it for a little bit of diversion.
Moved and seconded that the meeting adjourn.
Motion carried.
victoria, b. c. :
Printed by Richard Woifendbk, I.S.O., V.D., Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty,
1907.

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